Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN>
to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org.
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Tue, 25 Jan 2022 11:52:46 +0000 Received: by kubenode519.mail-prod1.omega.sg3.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 41971276843660129cf748bae9850eac; Tue, 25 Jan 2022 11:52:43 +0000 (UTC) From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN> To: Maximiliano Sandoval <msandova@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#53457: 29.0.50; pgtk: [Request] Expose GtkSettings to emacs References: <s_AAaWFCNcERrAQtMv8FjaEeGlb8Jtg6mF6E11VVOi8Bz_xHeT3Mnudz_Wx-DLRzZMg5uAZZPFm3iYTex_dngOlbPCWWlFy7QKwZiY36n0s=@protonmail.com> <875yqbtelb.fsf@HIDDEN> <WJ317t_w4cL3_6FsmovOhAPGAzR7mgF8dBVPXM_Be5K914ayJnQz3fM53MqsZoK2HuMbcOo81HupwK9n8eCLgvynWdIVelCUlX_e04Rm8Pw=@protonmail.com> <87sftfrwyr.fsf@HIDDEN> <7ryBJGbLNundVwb81pO54APmKbZt-N_2vSFDHa5AgSKH7D2OvGmU-hvgtlKsNT1XxE4yCVzTI74QNro3or4CgYhOE3jaBIthrEZkA16YF-8=@protonmail.com> <877daonuvh.fsf@HIDDEN> <6om0eP0E-JpYbTwYkdOEPRiA3CJhGst7ImtBzgPqJHeCsaWZbRWBh9H3R0sU7IgXYmhJoB9ic8E6lF12_VqAd76aPV6REbzUd8I6Mp7bka8=@protonmail.com> Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 19:52:39 +0800 In-Reply-To: <6om0eP0E-JpYbTwYkdOEPRiA3CJhGst7ImtBzgPqJHeCsaWZbRWBh9H3R0sU7IgXYmhJoB9ic8E6lF12_VqAd76aPV6REbzUd8I6Mp7bka8=@protonmail.com> (Maximiliano Sandoval's message of "Tue, 25 Jan 2022 11:04:36 +0000") Message-ID: <8735lcnibc.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.60 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.19615 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Content-Length: 2504 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 53457 Cc: 53457 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Maximiliano Sandoval <msandova@HIDDEN> writes: > That works for me, but I have to stress out that this is not GNOME > specific. Such a patch would only require > > ``` > hdy_init (); > hdy_style_manager_set_color_scheme (hdy_style_manager_get_default (), > HDY_COLOR_SCHEME_PREFER_LIGHT); > ``` > > after `gtk_init ()` is called to opt-in into following the user > preference. Note that this requires libhandy >= 1.5, meaning that > there are no stable releases that support this yet, we will have one > before GNOME 42 in march. No worries, we can wait until it is released this March to add such an option. > If you are using Adwaita-dark, whatever color scheme you declare in > the xdg-desktop-portal will be override by it (and thus ignored). The > reason Adwaita-dark is broken is because apps cannot tell that they > are in a dark mode, which leads to broken visuals, e.g. in gedit the > highlight for the current line is white, making text invisible in > Adwaita-dark. That can be remedied by selecting a different color theme in gedit's preferences, I think. > How does this affect Emacs? For example you might want to sync emacs' > theme with the headerbar stylesheet, and without hacks it is not > possible to tell if emacs is using a stylesheet that correspond to a > dark mode. The only way this is possible is by reading the xdg backed > preference and for doing so, it is desirable to have emacs being able > to declare its own GTK theme. There is no "headerbar stylesheet" we control, not even on PGTK. GTK only draws decorations in our usage when none are available from the display server and/or window manager, so it isn't right for us to advertise a feature for "changing the window decoration color" that doesn't work as such. > Those options are there only to avoid breakage with existing setups > and they are not going away as you point out, that does not mean they > are *supported*. The only supported way to tell a GTK 3 app that it > should use a dark mode stylesheet is via the > `gtk-application-prefer-dark-theme` setting. No, the gsettings setting is explictly supported inside GTK code, and is not a by-product of trying to not break existing setups. Programs which want to follow the new XDG preference for preferring dark stylesheets should use libadwatia or libhandy. A configuration option for Emacs to use that is the right way forward, so I suggest any interested party to begin hacking on that now. Thanks.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#53457; Package emacs.
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To: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>
From: Maximiliano Sandoval <msandova@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#53457: 29.0.50; pgtk: [Request] Expose GtkSettings to emacs
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Reply-To: Maximiliano Sandoval <msandova@HIDDEN>
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> [I didn't notice you forgot to CC the bug tracker earlier...
Thanks!, I am sorry for the trouble.
> That suggests the way forward is to provide a build option which will
>
> let Emacs utilize libhandy, or libadwatia, for the people who use GNOME
>
> and are willing to listen to whatever GNOME tells them.
That works for me, but I have to stress out that this is not GNOME specific=
.
Such a patch would only require
```
hdy_init ();
hdy_style_manager_set_color_scheme (hdy_style_manager_get_default (),
HDY_COLOR_SCHEME_PREFER_LIGHT);
```
after `gtk_init ()` is called to opt-in into following the user preference.
Note that this requires libhandy >=3D 1.5, meaning that there are no stable
releases that support this yet, we will have one before GNOME 42 in march.
> Why would it be incompatible with such a feature?
If you are using Adwaita-dark, whatever color scheme you declare in the
xdg-desktop-portal will be override by it (and thus ignored). The reason
Adwaita-dark is broken is because apps cannot tell that they are in a dark =
mode,
which leads to broken visuals, e.g. in gedit the highlight for the current =
line
is white, making text invisible in Adwaita-dark.
How does this affect Emacs? For example you might want to sync emacs' theme=
with
the headerbar stylesheet, and without hacks it is not possible to tell if e=
macs
is using a stylesheet that correspond to a dark mode. The only way this is
possible is by reading the xdg backed preference and for doing so, it is
desirable to have emacs being able to declare its own GTK theme.
> The latter option is explictly supported by the GTK developers. The
> former is not...
Those options are there only to avoid breakage with existing setups and the=
y are
not going away as you point out, that does not mean they are *supported*. T=
he
only supported way to tell a GTK 3 app that it should use a dark mode style=
sheet
is via the `gtk-application-prefer-dark-theme` setting.
Note that there are two variants of this setting: the global one, which was
retired in gnome-tweaks since it was completely broken, and a per-app setti=
ng,
which is the recommended option for apps not using libhandy/libadwaita.
Maximiliano Sandoval R.
=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90 Original Me=
ssage =E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90=E2=80=90
On Tuesday, January 25th, 2022 at 8:21 AM, Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN> wrote=
:
> [I didn't notice you forgot to CC the bug tracker earlier. Please use
>
> "Reply All" to reply, so that the bug tracker stays copied in.]
>
> Maximiliano Sandoval msandova@HIDDEN writes:
>
> > > Not what I recall, where the GTK developers say libadwatia (not
> > >
> > > individual applications) is supposed to set a dark stylesheet if the
> > >
> > > user wants to use one.
>
> > > The right way to enable a dark stylesheet is to open GNOME Tweaks, an=
d
> > >
> > > set the stylesheet to "Adwatia Dark".
>
> > These two affirmations are not correct.
>
> [..]
>
> > Applications which want to follow the GNOME human interface guidelines
> >
> > can make use of libhandy in GTK 3 (where they have to explicitly
> >
> > opt-in to follow the user preference) or libadwaita in GTK 4. These
> >
> > libraries will listed to the dbus for changes of the
> >
> > xdg-desktop-portal backed setting and refresh the stylesheet
> >
> > accordingly. Libhandy in fact uses "gtk-application-prefer-dark-theme"
> >
> > internally to set dark mode [1].
> >
> > Only when using lib{handy,adwaita}, the
> >
> > "gtk-application-prefer-dark-theme" setting should not be used at all,
> >
> > since it conflicts with the user preference.
> >
> > Emacs is not an application targeting the GNOME environment therefore
> >
> > it should probably not use either of these libraries. The way forward
> >
> > is to either take care of these steps or provide the tools for the
> >
> > users to do it.
>
> That suggests the way forward is to provide a build option which will
>
> let Emacs utilize libhandy, or libadwatia, for the people who use GNOME
>
> and are willing to listen to whatever GNOME tells them.
>
> > Right now it is not possible to declare that Emacs should use a dark
> >
> > stylesheet.
>
> No, it is possible. The proper solution is to tell GTK to use a dark
>
> theme, through either GNOME Tweaks or by using gsettings manually, both
>
> of which are not "hacks".
>
> The latter option is explictly supported by the GTK developers. The
>
> former is not, but it is in use by so many people (many more than the
>
> people using desktop environments which have added support for this new
>
> XDG protocol, none of which have been released yet), that it's hard to
>
> imagine it going away any time soon.
>
> > In short the "Adwaita-dark" setting in gnome-tweaks is a hack that
> >
> > will only cause conflicts with the user's preference and is
> >
> > incompatible with time based scheduling for dark mode.
>
> Why would it be incompatible with such a feature?
>
> Thanks.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#53457; Package emacs.
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From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>
To: Maximiliano Sandoval <msandova@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#53457: 29.0.50; pgtk: [Request] Expose GtkSettings to emacs
References: <s_AAaWFCNcERrAQtMv8FjaEeGlb8Jtg6mF6E11VVOi8Bz_xHeT3Mnudz_Wx-DLRzZMg5uAZZPFm3iYTex_dngOlbPCWWlFy7QKwZiY36n0s=@protonmail.com>
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Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 15:21:22 +0800
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(Maximiliano Sandoval's message of "Sun, 23 Jan 2022 09:55:14 +0000")
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Maximiliano Sandoval <msandova@HIDDEN> writes:
>> Not what I recall, where the GTK developers say libadwatia (not
>> individual applications) is supposed to set a dark stylesheet if the
>> user wants to use one.
>> The right way to enable a dark stylesheet is to open GNOME Tweaks, and
>> set the stylesheet to "Adwatia Dark".
> These two affirmations are not correct.
[..]
> Applications which want to follow the GNOME human interface guidelines
> can make use of libhandy in GTK 3 (where they have to explicitly
> opt-in to follow the user preference) or libadwaita in GTK 4. These
> libraries will listed to the dbus for changes of the
> xdg-desktop-portal backed setting and refresh the stylesheet
> accordingly. Libhandy in fact uses "gtk-application-prefer-dark-theme"
> internally to set dark mode [1].
>
> Only when using lib{handy,adwaita}, the
> "gtk-application-prefer-dark-theme" setting should not be used at all,
> since it conflicts with the user preference.
>
> Emacs is not an application targeting the GNOME environment therefore
> it should probably not use either of these libraries. The way forward
> is to either take care of these steps or provide the tools for the
> users to do it.
That suggests the way forward is to provide a build option which will
let Emacs utilize libhandy, or libadwatia, for the people who use GNOME
and are willing to listen to whatever GNOME tells them.
> Right now it is not possible to declare that Emacs should use a dark
> stylesheet.
No, it is possible. The proper solution is to tell GTK to use a dark
theme, through either GNOME Tweaks or by using gsettings manually, both
of which are not "hacks".
The latter option is explictly supported by the GTK developers. The
former is not, but it is in use by so many people (many more than the
people using desktop environments which have added support for this new
XDG protocol, none of which have been released yet), that it's hard to
imagine it going away any time soon.
> In short the "Adwaita-dark" setting in gnome-tweaks is a hack that
> will only cause conflicts with the user's preference and is
> incompatible with time based scheduling for dark mode.
Why would it be incompatible with such a feature?
Thanks.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#53457; Package emacs.
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Sun, 23 Jan 2022 01:39:54 +0000 Received: by kubenode514.mail-prod1.omega.sg3.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 537988a9a7846efea7083ba8b7cb5506; Sun, 23 Jan 2022 01:39:49 +0000 (UTC) From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN> To: Maximiliano Sandoval <msandova@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#53457: 29.0.50; pgtk: [Request] Expose GtkSettings to emacs References: <s_AAaWFCNcERrAQtMv8FjaEeGlb8Jtg6mF6E11VVOi8Bz_xHeT3Mnudz_Wx-DLRzZMg5uAZZPFm3iYTex_dngOlbPCWWlFy7QKwZiY36n0s=@protonmail.com> Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2022 09:39:44 +0800 In-Reply-To: <s_AAaWFCNcERrAQtMv8FjaEeGlb8Jtg6mF6E11VVOi8Bz_xHeT3Mnudz_Wx-DLRzZMg5uAZZPFm3iYTex_dngOlbPCWWlFy7QKwZiY36n0s=@protonmail.com> (Maximiliano Sandoval's message of "Sat, 22 Jan 2022 21:32:37 +0000") Message-ID: <875yqbtelb.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.60 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.19646 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Content-Length: 911 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 53457 Cc: 53457 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Maximiliano Sandoval <msandova@HIDDEN> writes: > Now that Emacs has a proper GTK header bar it would be interesting to > have some GtkSettings exposed, such as > gtk-application-prefer-dark-theme for example, which would allow to > programmatically set dark mode for the headerbar. We don't have a "proper GTK header bar", only the fallback title bar GTK uses for window decoration, which is only available on window systems where server side decorations don't exist (such as Wayland and Broadway.) In addition to that, the setting is deprecated, so I think relying on it to set the stylesheet used for window decorations will not be very effective. People will probably start screaming like goats if we enable the fallback title bar on X as well, since client-side decorations are a very controversial subject, so the best option would be to utilize the system-wide settings for that job. Thanks.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#53457; Package emacs.
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Maximiliano Sandoval <msandova@HIDDEN>:bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.
Full text available.bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#53457; Package emacs.
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