GNU logs - #54375, boring messages

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Subject: [bug#54375] Mutable guix shell environments
Resent-From: Charles <charles.b.jackson@HIDDEN>
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Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2022 18:21:16 +0000
From: Charles <charles.b.jackson@HIDDEN>
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sample useage:
$ cd project
$ guix package --manifest=3Dmanifest.scm --profile=3D.guix-profile
$ guix shell # --profile=3D.guix-profile is implicit

do some stuff. realize that you want to bring in another package.

$ guix install --profile=3D.guix-profile additional-package

Then additional package is instantly available. This is especially useful t=
o lisp programmers because, currently, bringing in an additional library in=
volves restarting shell, lisp process, reloading source files, regenerating=
 process state.
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Subject: [bug#54375] Mutable guix shell environments
Resent-From: Liliana Marie Prikler <liliana.prikler@HIDDEN>
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Am Sonntag, dem 13.03.2022 um 18:21 +0000 schrieb Charles:

> Subject: [PATCH 2/2] guix: shell: Implicitly use a .guix-profile as -
> -profile option.
> 
> * guix/scripts/shell.scm (auto-detect-manifest): Add ".guix-profile"
> to matches as --profile option
This one LGTM and it even avoids some problems we're having with
caches.  I'll keep it open for bikeshedding suggestions w.r.t. the name
of the directory to detect, though.

> Subject: [PATCH 1/2] guix: environment: Enable mutable environments.
> 
> * guix/scripts/environment.scm (launch-environment launch-
> environment/fork
> launch-environment/container guix-environment*): Add #:set-profile?
> parameter set GUIX_PROFILE
> when --profile option is used.
> * guix/scripts/environment.scm (guix-environment*): Profile could
> point to a
> profile directory instead of a store directory.
This one not so much.  You already have GUIX_ENVIRONMENT set, which
should be enough for lookup purposes.  If it's about manipulating PATH
and other environment variables, I think it'd better to do this
manually – you could even spawn a lightweight shell on your own by
simply doing the following:

$ $SHELL
$ GUIX_PROFILE=/path/to/profile
$ source $GUIX_PROFILE/etc/profile

If you want mutable environments, that's the easiest and imho best way
of achieving such a thing.  Guix is functional by design and we should
not compromise on that.

As far as using $GUIX_PROFILE together with `guix shell' is concerned,
if anything is even holding it back, it's that we don't respect
GUIX_PROFILE in the Scheme code that adds those variables.  Which to be
fair might be for the best, as GUIX_PROFILE is not guaranteed to
correspond to this invocation of `guix shell' when people are careless.
That's not to say that support for this couldn't be added, but at the
very least we'd have to be more careful about it.

Cheers

Message sent to guix-patches@HIDDEN:

Subject: [bug#54375] Mutable guix shell environments
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Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2022 23:38:19 +0000
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Thanks for taking a look Liliana. I'm glad you like guix shell detecting a =
local profile.

> $ $SHELL
> $ GUIX_PROFILE=3D/path/to/profile
> $ source $GUIX_PROFILE/etc/profile

This is basically what I was going for. I just find this useful to be built=
 in. When I think "guix shell", I think: "make an environment where I have =
everything I need". If I want to adjust what I need, why do I need to resta=
rt everything from scratch. If I did not know about guix shell and did all =
my development using ~/.guix-profile, this functionallity would already be =
available.

> Guix is functional by design and we should
not compromise on that.

I totally agree, and I do not think this does compromise it. With my patch,=
 guix shells using guix.scm or manifest, would be unchanged. Currently, gui=
x shell --profile, has strickly less functionallity than using the profile =
otherwise, this could be confusing (as it is to me). Profiles are not reall=
y mutable since they use generations; the subject line is a bit of a misnom=
er.

> As far as using $GUIX_PROFILE tog...

Yeah, before my patch, guix shell --profile, would not be set to the profil=
e I'm using. This actually makes sense, because, we are not really using it=
. Guix shell just happens to be using all the same packages that were avail=
able in that profile. Confusingly, If the profile, is updated, the shell is=
 now out of sync with it. My patch should make using guix shell --profile m=
ore intuitive.


------- Original Message -------

On Sunday, March 13th, 2022 at 2:51 PM, Liliana Marie Prikler <liliana.prik=
ler@HIDDEN> wrote:

> Am Sonntag, dem 13.03.2022 um 18:21 +0000 schrieb Charles:
>
> > Subject: [PATCH 2/2] guix: shell: Implicitly use a .guix-profile as -
> >
> > -profile option.
> >
> > * guix/scripts/shell.scm (auto-detect-manifest): Add ".guix-profile"
> >
> > to matches as --profile option
>
> This one LGTM and it even avoids some problems we're having with
>
> caches. I'll keep it open for bikeshedding suggestions w.r.t. the name
>
> of the directory to detect, though.
>
> > Subject: [PATCH 1/2] guix: environment: Enable mutable environments.
> >
> > * guix/scripts/environment.scm (launch-environment launch-
> >
> > environment/fork
> >
> > launch-environment/container guix-environment*): Add #:set-profile?
> >
> > parameter set GUIX_PROFILE
> >
> > when --profile option is used.
> >
> > * guix/scripts/environment.scm (guix-environment*): Profile could
> >
> > point to a
> >
> > profile directory instead of a store directory.
>
> This one not so much. You already have GUIX_ENVIRONMENT set, which
>
> should be enough for lookup purposes. If it's about manipulating PATH
>
> and other environment variables, I think it'd better to do this
>
> manually =E2=80=93 you could even spawn a lightweight shell on your own b=
y
>
> simply doing the following:
>
> $ $SHELL
>
> $ GUIX_PROFILE=3D/path/to/profile
>
> $ source $GUIX_PROFILE/etc/profile
>
> If you want mutable environments, that's the easiest and imho best way
>
> of achieving such a thing. Guix is functional by design and we should
>
> not compromise on that.
>
> As far as using $GUIX_PROFILE together with `guix shell' is concerned, if=
 anything is even holding it back, it's that we don't respect GUIX_PROFILE =
in the Scheme code that adds those variables. Which to be fair might be for=
 the best, as GUIX_PROFILE is not guaranteed to correspond to this invocati=
on of` guix shell' when people are careless.
>
> That's not to say that support for this couldn't be added, but at the
>
> very least we'd have to be more careful about it.
>
> Cheers

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Hi Charles,

Am Sonntag, dem 13.03.2022 um 23:38 +0000 schrieb Charles:
> Thanks for taking a look Liliana. I'm glad you like guix shell
> detecting a local profile.
> 
> > $ $SHELL
> > $ GUIX_PROFILE=/path/to/profile
> > $ source $GUIX_PROFILE/etc/profile
> 
> This is basically what I was going for. I just find this useful to be
> built in. When I think "guix shell", I think: "make an environment
> where I have everything I need". If I want to adjust what I need, why
> do I need to restart everything from scratch. If I did not know about
> guix shell and did all my development using ~/.guix-profile, this
> functionallity would already be available.
Yes, but it'd also be broken af.  You are focusing on a very particular
use case and ignoring all others.  What if instead of just "a package"
I wanted to add or remove a package that defines a search path, e.g.
Emacs?  In the adding case, EMACSLOADPATH would not get defined and in
the removing case it would still linger.  What you describe as desired
functionality is not at all well-defined.  Using `guix shell --profile'
on the other hand has the same semantics as the other `guix shell'
commands, and is thus imo less confusing once you start to think about
it.

Cheers

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From: Charles <charles.b.jackson@HIDDEN>
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> What if instead of just "a package" I wanted to add or remove a package t=
hat defines a search path

As with ~/.guix-profile, you will have to . "$GUIX_PROFILE/etc/profile" jus=
t like the hint says. For removing, they linger, that is exactly what the d=
efault profile does too.

This comes down to us disagreeing which is more important & useful: guix sh=
ell semantics vs profile semantics. guix shell --profile could go either wa=
y.

Another way to look at it is that I this sequence of 3 commands very useful=
 (so might others). They clearly have something to do with guix profiles, a=
nd they spawn a new shell. Thus I thought guix shell --profile was the perf=
ect place for them. You claim they do not belong there. Is there a better p=
lace you would suggest?

Message sent to guix-patches@HIDDEN:

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Subject: [bug#54375] Mutable guix shell environments
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Charles via Guix-patches via schreef op zo 13-03-2022 om 18:21 [+0000]:
> sample useage:
> $ cd project
> $ guix package --manifest=3Dmanifest.scm --profile=3D.guix-profile
> $ guix shell # --profile=3D.guix-profile is implicit
>=20
> do some stuff. realize that you want to bring in another package.
>=20
> $ guix install --profile=3D.guix-profile additional-package
>=20
> Then additional package is instantly available. This is especially useful=
 to lisp programmers because, currently, bringing in an additional library =
involves restarting shell, lisp process, reloading source files, regenerati=
ng process state.

If this is added, then this needs to be documented in the manual,
preferably with some examples on how to use it.

Greetings,
Maxime.

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