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From: Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN>
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Hello Guix,

The following message is shown when reconfiguring Guix System:

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
shepherd: Evaluating user expression (and (defined? (quote transient?)) (map (# ?) ?)).
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

It doesn't seem intended for end users to see; at least I have no clue
what it's supposed to tell me :-).

Thanks,

Maxim




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X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
From: help-debbugs@HIDDEN (GNU bug Tracking System)
To: Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN>
Subject: bug#55857: Acknowledgement (Odd Shepherd message on 'guix system
 reconfigure': (map (# ?) ?))
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Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2022 18:58:01 +0000

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55857: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D55857
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Hi,

Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN> skribis:

> The following message is shown when reconfiguring Guix System:
>
> shepherd: Evaluating user expression (and (defined? (quote transient?)) (=
map (# ?) ?)).
>
> It doesn't seem intended for end users to see; at least I have no clue
> what it's supposed to tell me :-).

The question marks are HORIZONTAL ELLIPSIS not being displayed properly
because =E2=80=98guix=E2=80=99 is not running under a UTF-8 locale.

The message is produced by shepherd as a response to an expression that
=E2=80=98guix system reconfigure=E2=80=99 tells it to evaluate, in (gnu ser=
vices herd).
And all this happens as part of the live service upgrade mechanism.

Admittedly, this particular message is not something one cares about as
a user, but it seemed safer to print messages shepherd might send during
that operation.

Ludo=E2=80=99.




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From: Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN>
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Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2022 12:22:46 -0400
In-Reply-To: <87o7z0xjxq.fsf@HIDDEN> ("Ludovic =?UTF-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?="'s message of "Fri, 10 Jun 2022 23:55:29 +0200")
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Hi Ludovic,

Ludovic Court=C3=A8s <ludo@HIDDEN> writes:

> Hi,
>
> Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN> skribis:
>
>> The following message is shown when reconfiguring Guix System:
>>
>> shepherd: Evaluating user expression (and (defined? (quote transient?)) =
(map (# ?) ?)).
>>
>> It doesn't seem intended for end users to see; at least I have no clue
>> what it's supposed to tell me :-).
>
> The question marks are HORIZONTAL ELLIPSIS not being displayed properly
> because =E2=80=98guix=E2=80=99 is not running under a UTF-8 locale.
>
> The message is produced by shepherd as a response to an expression that
> =E2=80=98guix system reconfigure=E2=80=99 tells it to evaluate, in (gnu s=
ervices herd).
> And all this happens as part of the live service upgrade mechanism.
>
> Admittedly, this particular message is not something one cares about as
> a user, but it seemed safer to print messages shepherd might send during
> that operation.

Perhaps what we need is a proper logging infrastructure?  The above
message could be flagged as a 'debug' level message.  stdout/stderr
would only get to see the 'info' or higher level messages, the rest
would be logged only to syslog, keeping the user interface clean.  I
know such a logging mechanism exists in Guile-Lib, as the (logging
logger) module [0].

What do you think?

Thanks,

Maxim

[0]  https://www.nongnu.org/guile-lib/doc/ref/logging.logger/




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Maxim Cournoyer schreef op di 14-06-2022 om 12:22 [-0400]:
> Perhaps what we need is a proper logging infrastructure?=C2=A0 The above
> message could be flagged as a 'debug' level message.=C2=A0 stdout/stderr
> would only get to see the 'info' or higher level messages, the rest
> would be logged only to syslog, keeping the user interface clean.=C2=A0 I
> know such a logging mechanism exists in Guile-Lib, as the (logging
> logger) module [0].
>=20
> What do you think?

Attila Lendvai has some ideas on logging, see
https://issues.guix.gnu.org/55242#2 and later patches.

Greetings,
Maxime.

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Hi,

Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN> skribis:

> Ludovic Court=C3=A8s <ludo@HIDDEN> writes:

[...]

>> The message is produced by shepherd as a response to an expression that
>> =E2=80=98guix system reconfigure=E2=80=99 tells it to evaluate, in (gnu =
services herd).
>> And all this happens as part of the live service upgrade mechanism.
>>
>> Admittedly, this particular message is not something one cares about as
>> a user, but it seemed safer to print messages shepherd might send during
>> that operation.
>
> Perhaps what we need is a proper logging infrastructure?

The difficulty here is that the message comes from shepherd without a
priority/level flag.  Usually those messages are well worth displaying
because they show what services got restarted, what failed, etc.  But
this one message is the fly in the ointment=E2=80=A6

Ludo=E2=80=99.




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Hello,

Ludovic Court=C3=A8s <ludo@HIDDEN> writes:

> Hi,
>
> Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN> skribis:
>
>> Ludovic Court=C3=A8s <ludo@HIDDEN> writes:
>
> [...]
>
>>> The message is produced by shepherd as a response to an expression that
>>> =E2=80=98guix system reconfigure=E2=80=99 tells it to evaluate, in (gnu=
 services herd).
>>> And all this happens as part of the live service upgrade mechanism.
>>>
>>> Admittedly, this particular message is not something one cares about as
>>> a user, but it seemed safer to print messages shepherd might send during
>>> that operation.
>>
>> Perhaps what we need is a proper logging infrastructure?
>
> The difficulty here is that the message comes from shepherd without a
> priority/level flag.  Usually those messages are well worth displaying
> because they show what services got restarted, what failed, etc.  But
> this one message is the fly in the ointment=E2=80=A6

Yes, I wasn't clear but I meant *Shepherd* needs a proper logging
infrastructure (although it seems to me the logging library in Guile-Lib
could be used in any Guile project, Guix included -- the way the
'logging' module comes standard in Python and preferred to printing or
reinventing a logging system :-)).

Maxim





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