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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame
In-Reply-To: <83o7xjlqlz.fsf@HIDDEN> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Wed, 20 Jul
2022 19:02:16 +0300")
Message-ID: <jwva692ik14.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN>
References: <YsXRYxGddhK9uMN1@ACM> <YsajbHnSgbScvguW@ACM>
<c7a72562-1993-196e-d1a7-64ef70e4c775@HIDDEN> <YsgNC6meyQ7XHAkp@ACM>
<dbd87661-92fc-d961-e82a-574116ffa03d@HIDDEN> <Ysle/8OJvZc3yOxf@ACM>
<cc7ce72b-9c68-6301-1308-fb1ed7199c54@HIDDEN> <Ysq5Wlk17NXvGcDJ@ACM>
<61fe102b-eec2-9711-560e-c141ed3cc6e4@HIDDEN> <YsxOPcXyFPnCI0fo@ACM>
<171bab25-5eb2-884b-5c32-bcfe4fed21cc@HIDDEN>
<jwvo7xobpuz.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN>
<11e7e566-f626-fcf4-adfc-d03efa0d861c@HIDDEN>
<jwv8roqiimq.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <834jzepg3t.fsf@HIDDEN>
<jwvedyih041.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <83zgh6nz5c.fsf@HIDDEN>
<jwvh73cbzjb.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <83y1wokmfr.fsf@HIDDEN>
<jwvh73b6due.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <83o7xjlqlz.fsf@HIDDEN>
Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2022 11:07:20 -0400
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>> > And second, why cannot/shouldn't it bind inhibit-redisplay?
>> Because code within a `save-selected-window` may want to use `sit-for`,
>> `read-event`, `recursive-edit`, `read-from-minibuffer`, ..
> You assume the binding should be in effect while BODY runs. But
> that's not needed: you only need to do that around the call to
> select-window (if at all).
Ah, that's better, indeed.
I'd rather make `select-window` take an explicit arg (or a special
value of `norecord`) rather than pass that arg implicitly via
a dynbound variable (especially one like `inhibit-redisplay` whose name
doesn't say clearly what it has to do with `select-window`).
Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 56305) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Jul 2022 16:02:38 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 20 12:02:38 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58705 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1oEC9m-00083W-GQ for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 20 Jul 2022 12:02:38 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:32896) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1oEC9h-00083F-5R for 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 20 Jul 2022 12:02:36 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:33168) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1oEC9a-0003aL-27; Wed, 20 Jul 2022 12:02:26 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=5qkccxfKwtW46ZnYnIhcsB3YbfpBb6+KuoauGzb4EhE=; b=O4AwRLFxVQdF UqVdhsoutECp4vvYtYqVCYdmJyCBKiXUibfELj3sMsV8bUPsUvce1yNairS3skro1hnJtYwd9HwWG toQgqywpUYDLgJTysrSuIZRpWw5kswJfkpa6+t6Fs7meSMw8RracAHVNFAb7ivb20vw2+nBc7BJfV ID4MOuopFp8+RrThfapLV9ryDTZeNa4cMYdb8OqMySJFab2G4xy5YG55T2xW18nFyDSe+lnTI/viI FuCATeZlSwTtSBCbbp4jEp7t5NYjQl4Q2U/6IsU65TUK2Qye7Lo5yKwgKTYH0lfVIOebP+ofNd/BN kMRO1K3JKbJlprKRMJZzlQ==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=1721 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1oEC9Z-00075R-Hu; Wed, 20 Jul 2022 12:02:25 -0400 Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2022 19:02:16 +0300 Message-Id: <83o7xjlqlz.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <jwvh73b6due.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> (message from Stefan Monnier on Wed, 20 Jul 2022 10:54:46 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame References: <YsXRYxGddhK9uMN1@ACM> <5d86d890-9a2e-e4d6-13fb-da03285ea003@HIDDEN> <YsajbHnSgbScvguW@ACM> <c7a72562-1993-196e-d1a7-64ef70e4c775@HIDDEN> <YsgNC6meyQ7XHAkp@ACM> <dbd87661-92fc-d961-e82a-574116ffa03d@HIDDEN> <Ysle/8OJvZc3yOxf@ACM> <cc7ce72b-9c68-6301-1308-fb1ed7199c54@HIDDEN> <Ysq5Wlk17NXvGcDJ@ACM> <61fe102b-eec2-9711-560e-c141ed3cc6e4@HIDDEN> <YsxOPcXyFPnCI0fo@ACM> <171bab25-5eb2-884b-5c32-bcfe4fed21cc@HIDDEN> <jwvo7xobpuz.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <11e7e566-f626-fcf4-adfc-d03efa0d861c@HIDDEN> <jwv8roqiimq.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <834jzepg3t.fsf@HIDDEN> <jwvedyih041.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <83zgh6nz5c.fsf@HIDDEN> <jwvh73cbzjb.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <83y1wokmfr.fsf@HIDDEN> <jwvh73b6due.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56305 Cc: rudalics@HIDDEN, 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, acm@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> > Cc: rudalics@HIDDEN, acm@HIDDEN, 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2022 10:54:46 -0400 > > >> But `save-selected-window` can't&shouldn't bind `inhibit-redisplay`. > > I don't think I understand. First, how is save-selected-window > > related to this discussion? > > `save-selected-window` uses `select-window`. That select-window will do nothing unless BODY changes the selected window, right? So it isn't save-selected-window's business to do anything about the issue at hand: it's the business of that BODY. > [ Actually I meant to write `with-selected-window` which is even more > directly related, but the same hold for `save-selected-window`. ] What is the problem with with-selected-window, exactly? > > And second, why cannot/shouldn't it bind inhibit-redisplay? > > Because code within a `save-selected-window` may want to use `sit-for`, > `read-event`, `recursive-edit`, `read-from-minibuffer`, .. You assume the binding should be in effect while BODY runs. But that's not needed: you only need to do that around the call to select-window (if at all).
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame
In-Reply-To: <83y1wokmfr.fsf@HIDDEN> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Wed, 20 Jul
2022 15:17:44 +0300")
Message-ID: <jwvh73b6due.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN>
References: <YsXRYxGddhK9uMN1@ACM>
<5d86d890-9a2e-e4d6-13fb-da03285ea003@HIDDEN> <YsajbHnSgbScvguW@ACM>
<c7a72562-1993-196e-d1a7-64ef70e4c775@HIDDEN> <YsgNC6meyQ7XHAkp@ACM>
<dbd87661-92fc-d961-e82a-574116ffa03d@HIDDEN> <Ysle/8OJvZc3yOxf@ACM>
<cc7ce72b-9c68-6301-1308-fb1ed7199c54@HIDDEN> <Ysq5Wlk17NXvGcDJ@ACM>
<61fe102b-eec2-9711-560e-c141ed3cc6e4@HIDDEN> <YsxOPcXyFPnCI0fo@ACM>
<171bab25-5eb2-884b-5c32-bcfe4fed21cc@HIDDEN>
<jwvo7xobpuz.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN>
<11e7e566-f626-fcf4-adfc-d03efa0d861c@HIDDEN>
<jwv8roqiimq.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <834jzepg3t.fsf@HIDDEN>
<jwvedyih041.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <83zgh6nz5c.fsf@HIDDEN>
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Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2022 10:54:46 -0400
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>> But `save-selected-window` can't&shouldn't bind `inhibit-redisplay`.
> I don't think I understand. First, how is save-selected-window
> related to this discussion?
`save-selected-window` uses `select-window`.
[ Actually I meant to write `with-selected-window` which is even more
directly related, but the same hold for `save-selected-window`. ]
> And second, why cannot/shouldn't it bind inhibit-redisplay?
Because code within a `save-selected-window` may want to use `sit-for`,
`read-event`, `recursive-edit`, `read-from-minibuffer`, ..
Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 56305) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Jul 2022 12:18:01 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 20 08:18:01 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56171 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1oE8eO-0007Rj-Sk for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 20 Jul 2022 08:18:01 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:33484) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1oE8eN-0007RW-Jb for 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 20 Jul 2022 08:18:00 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:57934) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1oE8eH-0003V6-LC; Wed, 20 Jul 2022 08:17:53 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=zVKRuFJHUeGS3Z8prDD0kFa8EPO6AZtvUgIaE+JJB/s=; b=Oodg5gbwbKYp Er5uttV9gAtXGd1K8iV9tywllTn6a4B2ZV5b5t6aOyDJsnvEnr0gNHuMUfeKFE71vqaYaYXS8SPDY 6Ug7vUl4qxLK7JRXaDqrcHbW1gNlbPE6FHf8erudLiVoMwTGnp0GriJwg94E7GORRMv+jvrsdtbow IbxvpaVIv79S/2fb/m+dSwHIvKwfG3+UWpEQgdvUhTjFGN/+BZAFjWScEIdDDg+kdHnCJrXVU2jV3 bh/IkIWpQmI+aM8Nhh5J8fmr+KrgNlGNCnJPsew1LBc28V+VB1EllJpcXU6ZtLirCgM8RBrT0vEqw YAJvP6p/atu43balhiDsrg==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=3477 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1oE8eH-00046R-4l; Wed, 20 Jul 2022 08:17:53 -0400 Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2022 15:17:44 +0300 Message-Id: <83y1wokmfr.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <jwvh73cbzjb.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> (message from Stefan Monnier on Tue, 19 Jul 2022 16:48:44 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame References: <YsXRYxGddhK9uMN1@ACM> <5d86d890-9a2e-e4d6-13fb-da03285ea003@HIDDEN> <YsajbHnSgbScvguW@ACM> <c7a72562-1993-196e-d1a7-64ef70e4c775@HIDDEN> <YsgNC6meyQ7XHAkp@ACM> <dbd87661-92fc-d961-e82a-574116ffa03d@HIDDEN> <Ysle/8OJvZc3yOxf@ACM> <cc7ce72b-9c68-6301-1308-fb1ed7199c54@HIDDEN> <Ysq5Wlk17NXvGcDJ@ACM> <61fe102b-eec2-9711-560e-c141ed3cc6e4@HIDDEN> <YsxOPcXyFPnCI0fo@ACM> <171bab25-5eb2-884b-5c32-bcfe4fed21cc@HIDDEN> <jwvo7xobpuz.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <11e7e566-f626-fcf4-adfc-d03efa0d861c@HIDDEN> <jwv8roqiimq.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <834jzepg3t.fsf@HIDDEN> <jwvedyih041.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <83zgh6nz5c.fsf@HIDDEN> <jwvh73cbzjb.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56305 Cc: rudalics@HIDDEN, 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, acm@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> > Cc: rudalics@HIDDEN, acm@HIDDEN, 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2022 16:48:44 -0400 > > >> >> Hmm... following the idea above, maybe select-frame/window should never > >> >> call resize_mini_window, and instead that should only take place at the > >> >> next redisplay. > >> > > >> > That's exactly what happens: resize_mini_window just fiddles with some > >> > variables, the actual resizing happens as part of redisplay. It's the > >> > moral equivalent of what happens when the user types "C-x ^". > >> > >> But we need to make sure that selecting a window and then "selecting > >> back" the original doesn't cause those vars to be changed. > > > > That shouldn't be hard to arrange (in fact, binding inhibit-redisplay > > does precisely that). > > But `save-selected-window` can't&shouldn't bind `inhibit-redisplay`. I don't think I understand. First, how is save-selected-window related to this discussion? And second, why cannot/shouldn't it bind inhibit-redisplay?
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame
In-Reply-To: <83zgh6nz5c.fsf@HIDDEN> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 18 Jul
2022 19:50:23 +0300")
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<5d86d890-9a2e-e4d6-13fb-da03285ea003@HIDDEN> <YsajbHnSgbScvguW@ACM>
<c7a72562-1993-196e-d1a7-64ef70e4c775@HIDDEN> <YsgNC6meyQ7XHAkp@ACM>
<dbd87661-92fc-d961-e82a-574116ffa03d@HIDDEN> <Ysle/8OJvZc3yOxf@ACM>
<cc7ce72b-9c68-6301-1308-fb1ed7199c54@HIDDEN> <Ysq5Wlk17NXvGcDJ@ACM>
<61fe102b-eec2-9711-560e-c141ed3cc6e4@HIDDEN> <YsxOPcXyFPnCI0fo@ACM>
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<jwv8roqiimq.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <834jzepg3t.fsf@HIDDEN>
<jwvedyih041.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <83zgh6nz5c.fsf@HIDDEN>
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>> >> Hmm... following the idea above, maybe select-frame/window should never
>> >> call resize_mini_window, and instead that should only take place at the
>> >> next redisplay.
>> >
>> > That's exactly what happens: resize_mini_window just fiddles with some
>> > variables, the actual resizing happens as part of redisplay. It's the
>> > moral equivalent of what happens when the user types "C-x ^".
>>
>> But we need to make sure that selecting a window and then "selecting
>> back" the original doesn't cause those vars to be changed.
>
> That shouldn't be hard to arrange (in fact, binding inhibit-redisplay
> does precisely that).
But `save-selected-window` can't&shouldn't bind `inhibit-redisplay`.
Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: martin rudalics <rudalics@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame
In-Reply-To: <1efd9470-8cc9-bcfa-86d3-d9a889056498@HIDDEN> (martin rudalics's
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martin rudalics [2022-07-19 10:09:33] wrote:
>> And of course we also need (3) Emacs wants to change the selected frame
>> without touching anything related to focus because it's just a temporary
>> change to run code in another context.
> "Of course"? If I have a window or frame that I usually never want to
> become selected, evaluating 'mode-line-format' will mercilessly tell me
> that that window or frame is the selected one.
I don't see any conflict between what I wrote and what you wrote.
The `selected-window` is just like the `current-buffer`: a context
passed around, like a set of default arguments.
The fact that it can also influence focus is not related to the
evaluation of the mode-line-format.
Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
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Tue, 19 Jul 2022 10:10:00 +0200 Message-ID: <6986ae82-8d4e-7675-77e9-2dc9d8e3477b@HIDDEN> Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2022 10:09:59 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame Content-Language: en-US To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> References: <YsXRYxGddhK9uMN1@ACM> <5d86d890-9a2e-e4d6-13fb-da03285ea003@HIDDEN> <YsajbHnSgbScvguW@ACM> <c7a72562-1993-196e-d1a7-64ef70e4c775@HIDDEN> <YsgNC6meyQ7XHAkp@ACM> <dbd87661-92fc-d961-e82a-574116ffa03d@HIDDEN> <Ysle/8OJvZc3yOxf@ACM> <cc7ce72b-9c68-6301-1308-fb1ed7199c54@HIDDEN> <Ysq5Wlk17NXvGcDJ@ACM> <61fe102b-eec2-9711-560e-c141ed3cc6e4@HIDDEN> <YsxOPcXyFPnCI0fo@ACM> <171bab25-5eb2-884b-5c32-bcfe4fed21cc@HIDDEN> <jwvo7xobpuz.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <11e7e566-f626-fcf4-adfc-d03efa0d861c@HIDDEN> <jwv8roqiimq.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> From: martin rudalics <rudalics@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <jwv8roqiimq.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:a32X2COHJQbmfFhM/WU21dsBOQVQ/rnip0S+T8caRxMiq+sRk9b V+LthDn9lCqNGfE0WyTGF1B5EEsfkpwgFvV2fiy+jLC2NeXOiPUW7IAmaKRbuVNJRb6i8RE TKMwIfGb2xtj4N7xgxPJidaEK9fBfYXSdqiIXGEFEKKH7Sd4VNBKmk8E30jqngvD3aNR30L R9Om7kgNyqQukcwRb+IwQ== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:onuEl3lXuso=:xif8pZg6ePjEylIVDJGJfT QpR9V7N3Sn6Qj97mgAn3FuiVOy1dgaX/uiOemqPUAt67Z1ubSQmjrI5vZ56FaaA/XJ3rc9cMf /aVrfcTGhLL6rZiE/RyuiqA6z4w65fn6V0JhWF8K0/E6jdr8SmEXcq9bScTzWnaTERB6wv30x uyfkBZvNOxVvIVAv6ocP2798tYewrLBAQsZqezEKvOeIuq+2TOFyb9vdczUJlJavGP3p2Nahw omTdmdh78mu4OUKEVh8vVHcZzlkj9L/cG85m+lx/PxqlQSURnjBmRf9ZttA3Lz8l9T93QjVpJ MHgluFdKoup3NLkJY23HVmgFWl+Z3ce9aol7EWK543OqK22vGZbWcxr+OKUwORnuH940yVdGs WRmA4kUkjhWBGik0mUvTj1myPefKdOhgnGzwHqWH6mCrOAdFV7oc4PJsPhLNjthBbgKP7XNjP AIF8q7Dof3dGI+0cffIWTT3SkJupzdo/QuWRsktHMtZEOpA7146FasN/YKlbBbLqXgDJ32ywz H/h8pp+9Iuop9LYvPL/hZrE64Pn2F+lk4LIeXibaZLDc36QsZoBhuZJ1JeZ1foklP7h63ZYVX VZgM8XsQvbbVXomkJxEqg0bIC0qEyHWw7HOVfiI/f2PgneO0P8zal3rh0NArT9FP5t0+1yy+Z tHWS7QqJuBBcwgP8AY39kHGJIo3J2eO4mF9ie267asvQPDKB+N3RrOUMD8QG3zCzunS74o444 hBSS+iM10H4LO1i4f61tAeG4heoHwdpSFxDwDqtgK6NRhfKvZJJn2aBoVuxAk0g9ZfrfF3U4A HpxOvfoHGFMenLCcW8HJejqzrkKtmNmaUEofj4HSfaAqqyscIqSDZfBV71lJCCT3OTihxdrIM o78Q02ewrRAgYhx0qkUSMDzluxeypmiULrHivJyZroMeSwKtb37sCEUl6OaY3usq2ZYzjG7zD vYXdwLOwSP7RZVZybu7riw4oyMBrJWzbWWZAW6i2Ay++3mFqMyCRpJVM+1e4b6obRKhsN961/ k0Liu++rjr2twfZQhLT/ST9QTKfzYgHZhY1VXTwhrZrOcSoT59mkpQyOOOYC8CGSuA8bsPH+i PyQqQPWjiWlaPbkEIKcrmJLSnYKvaEcF+2Iik3fs0Ql8L+CyBV+JEhM0Q== X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56305 Cc: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) >>> In case you intend to fix this apparent blunder of mine: the point of >>> that commit was to set the selected window and frame so that ELisp code >>> run from the `mode-line-format` would see meaningful and consistent >>> values of selected-frame/window (and companions like the >>> frame-selected-window of the selected-frame, ...). >> How are display_mode_line or display_mode_lines affected by that commit? > > I'm sorry, I don't understand the question. Above you said that "the point of that commit was to set the selected window and frame so that ELisp code run from the `mode-line-format` would see meaningful and consistent values ...". The C functions that evaluate 'mode-line-format' for redisplay are display_mode_lines and display_mode_line and those functions did set the selected window and frame before that commit and continued to do so after your commit in the same way. FWICS your commit changed the behavior of formatting frame titles only. >> Worse even: People who want to know, for example, whether the mode line >> belongs to the selected window have to use 'old-selected-window' for >> getting that. > > Not sure "worse" than what. Worse than being "misleading". > Clearly when computing the mode-line, there are 2 windows of interest: > the one to which this mode-line belongs and the one that's currently > considered (from the outside) as "the selected window". Only one of the > two can be "the selected window" while computing the mode-line, and in > my experience most code wants/needs this to be the mode-line's window > rather than "the one that's currently considered (from the outside) as > the selected window". "The selected window is the window in which the standard cursor for selected windows appears." I see no outside POV here. And once more: I don't ask to change this design but at least to tell users about it. >> NORECORD is not about focus. > > Then we need something like it but to say "I just want to change > selected-window temporarily, so don't mess with focus or any such thing". Say to whom and where? martin
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 56305) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Jul 2022 08:09:50 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jul 19 04:09:50 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52721 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1oDiIg-0008Lk-CR for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 19 Jul 2022 04:09:50 -0400 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.22]:43929) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <rudalics@HIDDEN>) id 1oDiIe-0008LW-FH for 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 19 Jul 2022 04:09:49 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1658218177; bh=DTtio76FRzrLFBZ/EPiw1myq6JAiL9P4SGsbCc5n+8c=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Date:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:In-Reply-To; b=GiANWKa/uPQBGxdNqf60rUZF/EFlEvw/anvrDnae5TqLWYz3ekqPC/86y4EzhtRv9 qRVbNPMiK4bg5wZhWEADINydkPBo7yuiLLw0gq5qbaxG9mElJzhsGs9gMmyDdRRHnX xHr+BJUD9c30DWae3duP2yhgXMbGQl4ci/tyKCG4= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [192.168.1.102] ([212.95.5.23]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx105 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1N7zBb-1nR5jW053b-014xeh; Tue, 19 Jul 2022 10:09:37 +0200 Message-ID: <1efd9470-8cc9-bcfa-86d3-d9a889056498@HIDDEN> Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2022 10:09:33 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame Content-Language: en-US To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> References: <YsajbHnSgbScvguW@ACM> <c7a72562-1993-196e-d1a7-64ef70e4c775@HIDDEN> <YsgNC6meyQ7XHAkp@ACM> <dbd87661-92fc-d961-e82a-574116ffa03d@HIDDEN> <Ysle/8OJvZc3yOxf@ACM> <cc7ce72b-9c68-6301-1308-fb1ed7199c54@HIDDEN> <Ysq5Wlk17NXvGcDJ@ACM> <61fe102b-eec2-9711-560e-c141ed3cc6e4@HIDDEN> <YsxOPcXyFPnCI0fo@ACM> <171bab25-5eb2-884b-5c32-bcfe4fed21cc@HIDDEN> <YtMgxz5LkhosyRdb@ACM> <cdc403b1-b1ac-1d48-0c4a-bebafcb1babf@HIDDEN> <jwvedyiiiro.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> From: martin rudalics <rudalics@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <jwvedyiiiro.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:C3XRRf9zwAEN3R7B5iEh71Dy4/IVyBoHKAyK70CLs6/R0OkUmBe riiUyyGXwuybyLysXimngEyl36uMQuZ/wU9phTJC/t243mSATC1tr37b7tOxgfxeJcf6Gvu TSAscdrOiBP3B5azDbctLqrPcJquPczM3a26aPY7Gr/no+hAURF/Gy465E51R6YiLCB7w4w lfbvhSV/AxT3Uzo8kLqlA== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:9eBuoCv4h6o=:7TESjPQIVJ3mp1Z+JFmW/u 2dZ5uceCBEfVEnye3RMd6IRsv5Ea1UgNHikNTECRlM78AI3FJPacAqbyQpTduOyX4uUPeFJbl MXK8TIw9XG2lWONQdWc89q8L8O1ztIkj6BM8ghoiYvoever6Q0Yd6dIZTj5/LrNhp1ItMooE6 3k8tYMwgfjTAEN1mxtKLGLFl9IDJRoyp2FmScVU8idEUXMD/u/uGfP393oL1zm5lxcnvhNcPt D91Dvm+x92iZ6P9+x8SXbmtH4GxY8TtrFQlNeVu06vIjKFVuN1aNYC5qGnvVbbMrAJJKiD4eh 9Eyu+UkbnplhAAYOcT7lpHYIuhJm+lCUFIIQZOEQe8eI1c/HMKY6hRVbM1Xhu1pmICFxxBxsK FtgaYGuuLGTuVbyIsUpoBhcldmm5lM26bc9YGrb4qtDJuHRrIvISOlPt4Abv09RfWPrcJaQlg oJ1SjxQW1vSdobB+K3X8mX+DyIaGXjYKUWGNBKInMMnuBoN/RApvGmf1IbNxwDYDCZJAh/YTX q/67h3lrl9n0zpoTsvS5mJLAgQz0ZdlfaimUJ6U+aU0vS+wXQOGO25yxOlUQX14J0eKqo6mbN 2lXo+uOiECdxT5EZKQr8OSlrHCfoA0RJl1NfAv5ntV8lR5FrKDGDL69NaTISOh1iYXMbPq+Ik cpWCjGlIL1AtvuvNGwL6ubN6Ml8UdbqLOZB7/WsUREwAQQ/oMCTzfJwvNQ2BeVU/JOrTn892K 3+LELA67ejbkqUj1t+LEaP4wcz+fuMWjFduKIOpi/74EkvOVtNo21JxM5qBUPgDWqSuwkgZuI PCEiKBGBj644FH7FoBj5nV8q3FQy2a97nRxr03+a9FjJVcDuZRr9z5IEC5SLHMTkAb4ClwT8n 19p4y1CGdU3jtHzEAqB4S0wzNHNpKO0mdP6q+i5nG8tyLsJSqojjZxv769LQJVoFicQRinK5+ cRH8MbBi+V3OR/e8icwu5/fK+VbQfa2RWNEgQqFmEuorSLxNBzUFy6eOHch6gUXvX//OTFZ2T U7OyZArwePqJ3Hv4AKFfoGbjE5/Dv/NriIcJcoYeLjmikFmNOhy8U4gPAUS6WSjmn/Y4fKYhe yBWgeiQyaN9leCR8sszxuCz4w0C0Cfl61kmX5eG9TRb0nUlXGa0/etGlA== X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56305 Cc: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > And of course we also need (3) Emacs wants to change the selected frame > without touching anything related to focus because it's just a temporary > change to run code in another context. "Of course"? If I have a window or frame that I usually never want to become selected, evaluating 'mode-line-format' will mercilessly tell me that that window or frame is the selected one. martin
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 56305) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Jul 2022 16:50:45 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jul 18 12:50:45 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51940 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1oDTxF-0002cv-EE for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 18 Jul 2022 12:50:45 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:51966) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1oDTxE-0002ck-6T for 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 18 Jul 2022 12:50:44 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:40506) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1oDTx8-0005CZ-0Y; Mon, 18 Jul 2022 12:50:38 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=oRJK6zkc+RxVxqM7vxe0AzNFbvz3OGSJvLk++sXXzos=; b=NuyFCE40XgTk zmSDC5E1WACFegiv/j4NTGqWi8UN9XpDIWsy2Syiu4m4+MtupgrAYZGPeqfuGOcicBom+L16C850C aa5YlmHLV9Ce9fhqp1hNPwWbPt37iZIQBvmocy7acHhltDiIqsNE6YY2moZVEmkaNgcdMxwpMUH8h H95qNQyMFeY30BMZkW14uGvWawkm+WxrWd7iEoopew1JZQdPhA0cImvL3m6mkg5/tcSY/wAoNvibc E26gRqgjYBPeqV1sScY3HbrY/W9/secZXxL7SY91jpmu9kmQDYfXB/6F963K9Rcky1Dn1iAAJT9aD VYwIRITagxxzgk0/QmuI6A==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=3185 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1oDTx5-0003lz-UM; Mon, 18 Jul 2022 12:50:37 -0400 Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2022 19:50:23 +0300 Message-Id: <83zgh6nz5c.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <jwvedyih041.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> (message from Stefan Monnier on Mon, 18 Jul 2022 12:12:34 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame References: <YsXRYxGddhK9uMN1@ACM> <5d86d890-9a2e-e4d6-13fb-da03285ea003@HIDDEN> <YsajbHnSgbScvguW@ACM> <c7a72562-1993-196e-d1a7-64ef70e4c775@HIDDEN> <YsgNC6meyQ7XHAkp@ACM> <dbd87661-92fc-d961-e82a-574116ffa03d@HIDDEN> <Ysle/8OJvZc3yOxf@ACM> <cc7ce72b-9c68-6301-1308-fb1ed7199c54@HIDDEN> <Ysq5Wlk17NXvGcDJ@ACM> <61fe102b-eec2-9711-560e-c141ed3cc6e4@HIDDEN> <YsxOPcXyFPnCI0fo@ACM> <171bab25-5eb2-884b-5c32-bcfe4fed21cc@HIDDEN> <jwvo7xobpuz.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <11e7e566-f626-fcf4-adfc-d03efa0d861c@HIDDEN> <jwv8roqiimq.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <834jzepg3t.fsf@HIDDEN> <jwvedyih041.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56305 Cc: rudalics@HIDDEN, 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, acm@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> > Cc: rudalics@HIDDEN, acm@HIDDEN, 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2022 12:12:34 -0400 > > >> Hmm... following the idea above, maybe select-frame/window should never > >> call resize_mini_window, and instead that should only take place at the > >> next redisplay. > > > > That's exactly what happens: resize_mini_window just fiddles with some > > variables, the actual resizing happens as part of redisplay. It's the > > moral equivalent of what happens when the user types "C-x ^". > > But we need to make sure that selecting a window and then "selecting > back" the original doesn't cause those vars to be changed. That shouldn't be hard to arrange (in fact, binding inhibit-redisplay does precisely that).
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame
In-Reply-To: <834jzepg3t.fsf@HIDDEN> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 18 Jul
2022 18:58:46 +0300")
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Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2022 12:12:34 -0400
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>> Hmm... following the idea above, maybe select-frame/window should never
>> call resize_mini_window, and instead that should only take place at the
>> next redisplay.
>
> That's exactly what happens: resize_mini_window just fiddles with some
> variables, the actual resizing happens as part of redisplay. It's the
> moral equivalent of what happens when the user types "C-x ^".
But we need to make sure that selecting a window and then "selecting
back" the original doesn't cause those vars to be changed.
Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 56305) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Jul 2022 15:59:09 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jul 18 11:59:09 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51883 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1oDT9I-0001AF-Nv for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 18 Jul 2022 11:59:08 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:40066) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1oDT9H-00019r-5h for 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 18 Jul 2022 11:59:07 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:39428) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1oDT9B-0005cd-8V; Mon, 18 Jul 2022 11:59:01 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=NWMuAy2zRf7ei8pbk0ennsq0QIpIo3Neo38YXuWRd3s=; b=UxKz5jwakWMf 0cz/VA+utuHsNQnMbZWyPFbXGnpkoMA4MUw8/Mtxu0qr4P0Y8++uH/vEewrQfsYIaSR5fP7oINktP rBJy0GIFfL0aedzIjLamJxBk8r7zu+/Ufu6L2vsDVY+oPqjJLC85Yi5mnXjj6PtIWZ5Hxj/XgASDe z1CFxzy0J8fxnUzy0+GgM6Wx8nbEmYd5fuZxTfNkOpkdMnkV2wUazfZ9u18Etw1VP/xJ6Z4Zmk4nr ihwtIGC+fEcd5A2zxchZaWeFV/BDsUItvgemK35IWvGnSPDwARWtlNSKxmo07kxREAf1Ydkt9iXGW sZHrq4Yf1JLVcQ8HNMWSMQ==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=4019 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1oDT9A-0001rN-NQ; Mon, 18 Jul 2022 11:59:01 -0400 Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2022 18:58:46 +0300 Message-Id: <834jzepg3t.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <jwv8roqiimq.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> (message from Stefan Monnier on Mon, 18 Jul 2022 10:58:09 -0400) Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame References: <YsXRYxGddhK9uMN1@ACM> <5d86d890-9a2e-e4d6-13fb-da03285ea003@HIDDEN> <YsajbHnSgbScvguW@ACM> <c7a72562-1993-196e-d1a7-64ef70e4c775@HIDDEN> <YsgNC6meyQ7XHAkp@ACM> <dbd87661-92fc-d961-e82a-574116ffa03d@HIDDEN> <Ysle/8OJvZc3yOxf@ACM> <cc7ce72b-9c68-6301-1308-fb1ed7199c54@HIDDEN> <Ysq5Wlk17NXvGcDJ@ACM> <61fe102b-eec2-9711-560e-c141ed3cc6e4@HIDDEN> <YsxOPcXyFPnCI0fo@ACM> <171bab25-5eb2-884b-5c32-bcfe4fed21cc@HIDDEN> <jwvo7xobpuz.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <11e7e566-f626-fcf4-adfc-d03efa0d861c@HIDDEN> <jwv8roqiimq.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56305 Cc: rudalics@HIDDEN, 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, acm@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> > Cc: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, > 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2022 10:58:09 -0400 > > Hmm... following the idea above, maybe select-frame/window should never > call resize_mini_window, and instead that should only take place at the > next redisplay. That's exactly what happens: resize_mini_window just fiddles with some variables, the actual resizing happens as part of redisplay. It's the moral equivalent of what happens when the user types "C-x ^".
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: martin rudalics <rudalics@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame
In-Reply-To: <11e7e566-f626-fcf4-adfc-d03efa0d861c@HIDDEN> (martin rudalics's
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Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2022 10:58:09 -0400
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>> In case you intend to fix this apparent blunder of mine: the point of
>> that commit was to set the selected window and frame so that ELisp code
>> run from the `mode-line-format` would see meaningful and consistent
>> values of selected-frame/window (and companions like the
>> frame-selected-window of the selected-frame, ...).
> How are display_mode_line or display_mode_lines affected by that commit?
I'm sorry, I don't understand the question.
> Worse even: People who want to know, for example, whether the mode line
> belongs to the selected window have to use 'old-selected-window' for
> getting that.
Not sure "worse" than what.
Clearly when computing the mode-line, there are 2 windows of interest:
the one to which this mode-line belongs and the one that's currently
considered (from the outside) as "the selected window". Only one of the
two can be "the selected window" while computing the mode-line, and in
my experience most code wants/needs this to be the mode-line's window
rather than "the one that's currently considered (from the outside) as
the selected window".
> And by no means I'd ask for changing this. But a better explanation in
> the doc-strings and the manual should be in order. End of the aside.
I didn't know that `old-selected-window` could be used for that (when
I installed the patch, there was simply no such option and my
recommendation when people needed such a thing was to use
a `pre-redisplay-hook` to set some global var to remember the window
that was selected when entering redisplay).
>> If calling `Fselect_window` with a non-nil `norecord` argument messes
>> things up somehow then maybe we should fix `Fselect_window` accordingly,
>> or otherwise provide a "more bare bones" function that DTRT.
>>
>> It seems clear to me, for example, that when called with a non-nil
>> `norecord` (like in the mode-line code), `Fselect_window` should never
>> cause any change to the focus redirection (or the focus itself).
>
> NORECORD is not about focus.
Then we need something like it but to say "I just want to change
selected-window temporarily, so don't mess with focus or any such thing".
Or maybe, an alternative would be to wait until the next redisplay to
reflect the effect of select-frame/window on focus.
>> I can't see the connection between these bugs at the above commit, sorry.
> They are a direct result of x/gui_consider_frame_title calling
> Fselect_window calling resize_mini_window and were fixed by binding
> 'inhibit-redisplay' appropriately in x/gui_consider_frame_title.
Hmm... following the idea above, maybe select-frame/window should never
call resize_mini_window, and instead that should only take place at the
next redisplay.
Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: martin rudalics <rudalics@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame
In-Reply-To: <cdc403b1-b1ac-1d48-0c4a-bebafcb1babf@HIDDEN> (martin rudalics's
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> to do_switch_frame. In a nutshell, all these additional functions were
> provided to better sort out two underlying behaviors:
>
> (1) The WM tells us that it now will direct input to another frame and
> Emacs must select that frame in order to stay in synch with the WM.
>
> (2) Emacs wants to change the selected frame and we have to inform the
> WM about that change so it will direct input to it and call us back
> via (1) that it now will do so.
And of course we also need (3) Emacs wants to change the selected frame
without touching anything related to focus because it's just a temporary
change to run code in another context.
Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
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> In case you intend to fix this apparent blunder of mine: the point of
> that commit was to set the selected window and frame so that ELisp code
> run from the `mode-line-format` would see meaningful and consistent
> values of selected-frame/window (and companions like the
> frame-selected-window of the selected-frame, ...).
How are display_mode_line or display_mode_lines affected by that commit?
As an aside: 'mode-line-format' claims that it is a
Template for displaying mode line for current buffer.
which is misleading at least. A mode line belongs to a window and
reflects the values used for displaying a buffer in that window.
Whatever consistency we want here is necessitated by the fact that
redisplay has to set up the current buffer appropriately ('window-point'
replacing the buffer's point, for example, so line numbers, percentages
or 'which-func-mode' appear correct). Elisp code hardly cares.
Worse even: People who want to know, for example, whether the mode line
belongs to the selected window have to use 'old-selected-window' for
getting that. Whether a window is "really" selected is ultimately
hidden by Kim's face trick for displaying selected/non-selected windows'
mode lines.
And by no means I'd ask for changing this. But a better explanation in
the doc-strings and the manual should be in order. End of the aside.
> If calling `Fselect_window` with a non-nil `norecord` argument messes
> things up somehow then maybe we should fix `Fselect_window` accordingly,
> or otherwise provide a "more bare bones" function that DTRT.
>
> It seems clear to me, for example, that when called with a non-nil
> `norecord` (like in the mode-line code), `Fselect_window` should never
> cause any change to the focus redirection (or the focus itself).
NORECORD is not about focus.
> And neither should it call things like `resize_mini_window`, I think.
>
>> In the sequel, obscure bugs began to pile up, all very difficult to
>> describe and reproduce (Bug#23124, Bug#24285, Bug#34317) and were fixed
>> with some trickery. The origin of all that evil remained in place.
>
> I can't see the connection between these bugs at the above commit, sorry.
They are a direct result of x/gui_consider_frame_title calling
Fselect_window calling resize_mini_window and were fixed by binding
'inhibit-redisplay' appropriately in x/gui_consider_frame_title.
martin
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
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> Doesn't terminfo cater for this sort of thing? Whether it does or not,
> surely we could set up a set of capability variables, nil/t, a bit like
> we've got focus-follows-mouse.
The doc-string of 'focus-follows-mouse' says:
You should set this variable to tell Emacs how your window manager
handles focus, since there is no way in general for Emacs to find out
automatically.
So do you mean to add similar options that allows users to tell Emacs
how their window manager is supposed to behave wrt foucs handling, frame
raising and the like? I suspect most users have no idea how their WM
behaves in these regards. In either case this would be only tangential
to the current issue.
> Again, where are our capability variables?
Maybe someone can tell us.
> C-x o calls next-window and the spec for that, with arguments like
> ALL-FRAMES and MINIBUF is right on the boundaries of understandability.
'next-window' tries to handle every possible use case instead of DTRT in
the few practical cases. But that ship sailed a long time ago and now
we can only try to keep the old behavior in place as faithfully as
possible because there are too many callers out there that might depend
on its once established functionality.
> It strikes me it was really fragile code. In the middle of the function
> to switch the current frame there was a difficult to understand ad-hoc
> section which redirected the focus, sometimes. Surely that should be
> done somewhere else (where?) more systematically.
do_switch_frame was Fhandle_switch_frame which was Fselect_frame. Once
Fselect_frame itself accepted 'switch-frame' events (that's where the
"if (CONSP (frame)" part comes from) and asked for redirecting frame
focus. Later Fhandle_switch_frame was invented to handle requests
coming from Fselect_frame, Fdelete_frame and switch-frame events. Then
do_switch_frame was invented and Fhandle_switch_frame became a wrapper
for that. In 2001 the code for resizing the minibuffer window was added
to do_switch_frame. In a nutshell, all these additional functions were
provided to better sort out two underlying behaviors:
(1) The WM tells us that it now will direct input to another frame and
Emacs must select that frame in order to stay in synch with the WM.
(2) Emacs wants to change the selected frame and we have to inform the
WM about that change so it will direct input to it and call us back
via (1) that it now will do so.
Be it as it may, the history sketched above should tell C coders to
refrain from calling anything that could end up in any of the functions
mentioned above plus Fselect_window which ends up calling Fselect_frame
when the argument window is on another frame. These functions may do
lots of things other than resizing minibuffer windows and redirecting
frame focus. Why on earth should title bar formatting do any of the
following:
- set f->select_mini_window_flag
- mark the window for redisplay or ask to redisplay_other_windows
- call bset_last_selected_window
- call move_minibuffers_onto_frame
- set last_nonminibuf_frame
- set internal_last_event_frame
> I think we can understand the motivation behind that. Fselect_window
> will surely do everything to keep everything consistent and coherent.
> Just setting the variable is liable to lead to inconsistency and chaos if
> you're not very careful what you do. This pattern is not unknown in
> Emacs, where a high-level function (or command, even) wants to do things
> which are inconvenient at the nitty-gritty level.
If that were the case, then mode line formatting should have called
Fselect_window long ago. But Gerd's code from 2001 which "just sets the
variables" is still around and handles that case without larger
complaints ever since. We fixed the case where a frame's selected
window was not in synch and one where a window got deleted by the mode
line formatting code in between.
> I don't recall seeing
> any comments about Fselect_window saying "be careful!".
I'd always try to "be careful" when calling a primitive function from C.
>> In the sequel, obscure bugs began to pile up, all very difficult to
>> describe and reproduce (Bug#23124, Bug#24285, Bug#34317) and were fixed
>> with some trickery. The origin of all that evil remained in place.
>
> What is stopping you fixing it, given that you understand it better than
> anybody else?
Irony of sorts? The patch I proposed was categorically refused.
>> Making the minibuffer follow the selected frame was just the final
>> stab.
>
> That's optional: now, either the MB follows the selected frame or it
> doesn't.
Setting 'minibuffer-follows-selected-frame' to nil doesn't prevent the
bug from happening here.
> Commit 6355802033d202....aecceef? Why not?
Because we had that in Emacs 28.1 and you reverted it for Emacs 28.2.
martin
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 56305) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Jul 2022 15:06:21 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jul 17 11:06:21 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48323 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1oD5qe-00049W-Tb for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 17 Jul 2022 11:06:21 -0400 Received: from colin.muc.de ([193.149.48.1]:14580 helo=mail.muc.de) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <acm@HIDDEN>) id 1oD5qb-00049F-AB for 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 17 Jul 2022 11:06:19 -0400 Received: (qmail 92900 invoked by uid 3782); 17 Jul 2022 15:06:10 -0000 Received: from acm.muc.de (p4fe152b5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [79.225.82.181]) (using STARTTLS) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sun, 17 Jul 2022 17:06:10 +0200 Received: (qmail 7622 invoked by uid 1000); 17 Jul 2022 15:06:09 -0000 Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2022 15:06:09 +0000 To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame Message-ID: <YtQlYVRObSCXl7x8@ACM> References: <dbd87661-92fc-d961-e82a-574116ffa03d@HIDDEN> <Ysle/8OJvZc3yOxf@ACM> <cc7ce72b-9c68-6301-1308-fb1ed7199c54@HIDDEN> <Ysq5Wlk17NXvGcDJ@ACM> <61fe102b-eec2-9711-560e-c141ed3cc6e4@HIDDEN> <YsxOPcXyFPnCI0fo@ACM> <171bab25-5eb2-884b-5c32-bcfe4fed21cc@HIDDEN> <jwvo7xobpuz.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <YtPyr6HIv9Auew5c@ACM> <jwv1qujq1u9.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <jwv1qujq1u9.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> X-Submission-Agent: TMDA/1.3.x (Ph3nix) From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN> X-Primary-Address: acm@HIDDEN X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56305 Cc: martin rudalics <rudalics@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, acm@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hello, Stefan. On Sun, Jul 17, 2022 at 10:03:23 -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote: > > Fselect_frame (or more precisely do_switch_frame) is a place where > > the trouble occurs, or certainly was before my removal of the 53 > > lines focus redirecting/shifting code ~10 days ago. That removed > > code seems to be needed for correct frame switching with a > > minibuffer-only frame, but in the middle of do_switch_frame doesn't > > seem to be the optimal place for it. > But the interactive calls have nil for `norecord`. Some of them might not. I don't see how that observation relates to my quoted paragraph, though. > >> It seems clear to me, for example, that when called with a non-nil > >> `norecord` (like in the mode-line code), `Fselect_window` should never > >> cause any change to the focus redirection (or the focus itself). > >> And neither should it call things like `resize_mini_window`, I think. > > It would be a mistake to couple focus switching with NORECORD, something > > which is only coincidentally tied to the focus. > Currently `norecord` is the flag used to indicate that this is an > "internal" `select-window` call, typically part of something like > `with-selected-window` or `save-window-excursion`, which seem like good > candidates to use the more "bare bones" select-window semantics (whose > difference in semantics I don't fully comprehend, to be honest, so > hopefully, this discussion will lead to doc (or at least comment) > changes to describe those differences). I was thinking about some primitive such as select_window_no_focus, and/or select_frame_no_focus (although do_switch_frame pretty much is this, now). These would do what s-w and s-f do, but rigorously refrain from setting the focus, redirecting the focus in any frame, raising a frame, and so on. > There might indeed be other calls to `select-window` that specify the > `norecord` arg for some other reason, so maybe linking the two that > way is not a good idea, I don't know. I think it is a fundamentally bad idea. There's no conceptual connection between recording a position in a window list and changing a window manager's focus. > > Neither can I, but Martin's spent quite a few years analysing these > > things. The mechanisms of these bugs, and their connection with that > > 2008 patch are likely involved and complicated. > Yes, I didn't mean to say they didn't exist, just that I wasn't able > to see them. OK. > > The current state of affairs is that Emacs 28 is unusable to some > > people who prefer a separate minibuffer frame (in particular, Drew > > Adams) and it may well be worth our while to identify the current > > bugs and fix them. > As you might know, I'm in that same boat :-) Ah, good. ;-) Are you able and willing to formalise bugs in this area, so that we can set about eradicating them? As you know, I only rarely run Emacs on a window manager. > Stefan -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame
In-Reply-To: <YtPyr6HIv9Auew5c@ACM> (Alan Mackenzie's message of "Sun, 17 Jul
2022 11:29:51 +0000")
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> Fselect_frame (or more precisely do_switch_frame) is a place where the
> trouble occurs, or certainly was before my removal of the 53 lines focus
> redirecting/shifting code ~10 days ago. That removed code seems to be
> needed for correct frame switching with a minibuffer-only frame, but in
> the middle of do_switch_frame doesn't seem to be the optimal place for
> it.
But the interactive calls have nil for `norecord`.
>> It seems clear to me, for example, that when called with a non-nil
>> `norecord` (like in the mode-line code), `Fselect_window` should never
>> cause any change to the focus redirection (or the focus itself).
>> And neither should it call things like `resize_mini_window`, I think.
>
> It would be a mistake to couple focus switching with NORECORD, something
> which is only coincidentally tied to the focus.
Currently `norecord` is the flag used to indicate that this is an
"internal" `select-window` call, typically part of something like
`with-selected-window` or `save-window-excursion`, which seem like good
candidates to use the more "bare bones" select-window semantics (whose
difference in semantics I don't fully comprehend, to be honest, so
hopefully, this discussion will lead to doc (or at least comment)
changes to describe those differences).
There might indeed be other calls to `select-window` that specify the
`norecord` arg for some other reason, so maybe linking the two that way
is not a good idea, I don't know.
> Neither can I, but Martin's spent quite a few years analysing these
> things. The mechanisms of these bugs, and their connection with that
> 2008 patch are likely involved and complicated.
Yes, I didn't mean to say they didn't exist, just that I wasn't able to
see them.
> The current state of affairs is that Emacs 28 is unusable to some
> people who prefer a separate minibuffer frame (in particular, Drew
> Adams) and it may well be worth our while to identify the current bugs
> and fix them.
As you might know, I'm in that same boat :-)
Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 56305) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Jul 2022 11:30:03 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jul 17 07:30:02 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46803 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1oD2TJ-0002UF-VC for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 17 Jul 2022 07:30:02 -0400 Received: from colin.muc.de ([193.149.48.1]:64255 helo=mail.muc.de) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <acm@HIDDEN>) id 1oD2TH-0002Tm-38 for 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 17 Jul 2022 07:30:00 -0400 Received: (qmail 51498 invoked by uid 3782); 17 Jul 2022 11:29:52 -0000 Received: from acm.muc.de (p4fe152b5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [79.225.82.181]) (using STARTTLS) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sun, 17 Jul 2022 13:29:52 +0200 Received: (qmail 6461 invoked by uid 1000); 17 Jul 2022 11:29:51 -0000 Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2022 11:29:51 +0000 To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame Message-ID: <YtPyr6HIv9Auew5c@ACM> References: <c7a72562-1993-196e-d1a7-64ef70e4c775@HIDDEN> <YsgNC6meyQ7XHAkp@ACM> <dbd87661-92fc-d961-e82a-574116ffa03d@HIDDEN> <Ysle/8OJvZc3yOxf@ACM> <cc7ce72b-9c68-6301-1308-fb1ed7199c54@HIDDEN> <Ysq5Wlk17NXvGcDJ@ACM> <61fe102b-eec2-9711-560e-c141ed3cc6e4@HIDDEN> <YsxOPcXyFPnCI0fo@ACM> <171bab25-5eb2-884b-5c32-bcfe4fed21cc@HIDDEN> <jwvo7xobpuz.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <jwvo7xobpuz.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> X-Submission-Agent: TMDA/1.3.x (Ph3nix) From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN> X-Primary-Address: acm@HIDDEN X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56305 Cc: martin rudalics <rudalics@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hello, Stefan. On Sat, Jul 16, 2022 at 19:39:10 -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote: > > You're barking at the wrong tree. That code worked well for half of its > > lifetime. What really got us into the present bredouille was commit > > 6355802033d202c63f6fff4b77bf2b0c7aecceef and its ill-fated decision to > > call Fselect_window instead of directly setting selected frame and > > window as the well-established and tested code in display_mode_lines > > did and still does. > In case you intend to fix this apparent blunder of mine: the point of > that commit was to set the selected window and frame so that ELisp code > run from the `mode-line-format` would see meaningful and consistent > values of selected-frame/window (and companions like the > frame-selected-window of the selected-frame, ...). Yes, like I guessed in my post yesterday in this thread. > If calling `Fselect_window` with a non-nil `norecord` argument messes > things up somehow then maybe we should fix `Fselect_window` accordingly, > or otherwise provide a "more bare bones" function that DTRT. I would be in favour of the "more bare bones" function. Fselect_window is pretty much a command, and does far too much (including sometimes shifting the focus) for an internal low-level function. It's doc string is incomplete in this regard, and its entry in the Elisp manual is vague and shifty. Fselect_frame (or more precisely do_switch_frame) is a place where the trouble occurs, or certainly was before my removal of the 53 lines focus redirecting/shifting code ~10 days ago. That removed code seems to be needed for correct frame switching with a minibuffer-only frame, but in the middle of do_switch_frame doesn't seem to be the optimal place for it. > It seems clear to me, for example, that when called with a non-nil > `norecord` (like in the mode-line code), `Fselect_window` should never > cause any change to the focus redirection (or the focus itself). > And neither should it call things like `resize_mini_window`, I think. It would be a mistake to couple focus switching with NORECORD, something which is only coincidentally tied to the focus. > > In the sequel, obscure bugs began to pile up, all very difficult to > > describe and reproduce (Bug#23124, Bug#24285, Bug#34317) and were fixed > > with some trickery. The origin of all that evil remained in place. > I can't see the connection between these bugs at the above commit, sorry. Neither can I, but Martin's spent quite a few years analysing these things. The mechanisms of these bugs, and their connection with that 2008 patch are likely involved and complicated. The current state of affairs is that Emacs 28 is unusable to some people who prefer a separate minibuffer frame (in particular, Drew Adams) and it may well be worth our while to identify the current bugs and fix them. > Stefan -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: martin rudalics <rudalics@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame
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> You're barking at the wrong tree. That code worked well for half of its
> lifetime. What really got us into the present bredouille was commit
> 6355802033d202c63f6fff4b77bf2b0c7aecceef and its ill-fated decision to
> call Fselect_window instead of directly setting selected frame and
> window as the well-established and tested code in display_mode_lines
> did and still does.
In case you intend to fix this apparent blunder of mine: the point of
that commit was to set the selected window and frame so that ELisp code
run from the `mode-line-format` would see meaningful and consistent
values of selected-frame/window (and companions like the
frame-selected-window of the selected-frame, ...).
If calling `Fselect_window` with a non-nil `norecord` argument messes
things up somehow then maybe we should fix `Fselect_window` accordingly,
or otherwise provide a "more bare bones" function that DTRT.
It seems clear to me, for example, that when called with a non-nil
`norecord` (like in the mode-line code), `Fselect_window` should never
cause any change to the focus redirection (or the focus itself).
And neither should it call things like `resize_mini_window`, I think.
> In the sequel, obscure bugs began to pile up, all very difficult to
> describe and reproduce (Bug#23124, Bug#24285, Bug#34317) and were fixed
> with some trickery. The origin of all that evil remained in place.
I can't see the connection between these bugs at the above commit, sorry.
Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 56305) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Jul 2022 20:34:26 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 16 16:34:26 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46192 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1oCoUb-0006Q4-Gr for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 16 Jul 2022 16:34:26 -0400 Received: from colin.muc.de ([193.149.48.1]:40258 helo=mail.muc.de) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <acm@HIDDEN>) id 1oCoUZ-0006Ps-3p for 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 16 Jul 2022 16:34:24 -0400 Received: (qmail 53389 invoked by uid 3782); 16 Jul 2022 20:34:17 -0000 Received: from acm.muc.de (p2e5d526d.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [46.93.82.109]) (using STARTTLS) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sat, 16 Jul 2022 22:34:16 +0200 Received: (qmail 10935 invoked by uid 1000); 16 Jul 2022 20:34:15 -0000 Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2022 20:34:15 +0000 To: martin rudalics <rudalics@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame Message-ID: <YtMgxz5LkhosyRdb@ACM> References: <YsajbHnSgbScvguW@ACM> <c7a72562-1993-196e-d1a7-64ef70e4c775@HIDDEN> <YsgNC6meyQ7XHAkp@ACM> <dbd87661-92fc-d961-e82a-574116ffa03d@HIDDEN> <Ysle/8OJvZc3yOxf@ACM> <cc7ce72b-9c68-6301-1308-fb1ed7199c54@HIDDEN> <Ysq5Wlk17NXvGcDJ@ACM> <61fe102b-eec2-9711-560e-c141ed3cc6e4@HIDDEN> <YsxOPcXyFPnCI0fo@ACM> <171bab25-5eb2-884b-5c32-bcfe4fed21cc@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <171bab25-5eb2-884b-5c32-bcfe4fed21cc@HIDDEN> X-Submission-Agent: TMDA/1.3.x (Ph3nix) From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN> X-Primary-Address: acm@HIDDEN X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56305 Cc: 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, monnier@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hello, Martin. On Tue, Jul 12, 2022 at 09:35:00 +0200, martin rudalics wrote: [ .... ] > > Apologies: the doc string for select-window virtually says it grabs > > the focus. Couldn't we go the whole way, and explicitly state that > > select-window is really "select-window-set-input-focus"? > But we can't guarantee that. Popping up a new frame via > 'pop-to-buffer' should do that via 'select-frame-set-input-focus'. But > if the window manager forbids focus stealing, it doesn't. The new > frame may even come up totally obscured. > >> The Elisp manual is controversial about this. A sentence like > >> Note that sometimes selecting a window is not enough to show > >> it, or make its frame the top-most frame on display: you may > >> also need to raise the frame or make sure input focus is > >> directed to that frame. > > That sounds like the text from a bug report. Selecting a window > > should either do all these GUI things, or it shouldn't do them. > > "Sometimes" feels like an apology for failing to fix a bug before a > > release. > The text mirrors the savage wilderness of GUIs - eat and be eaten. > That's not the clean, well-lighted environment of a tty. Doesn't terminfo cater for this sort of thing? Whether it does or not, surely we could set up a set of capability variables, nil/t, a bit like we've got focus-follows-mouse. [ .... ] > 'display-buffer', for example, should not select the window it uses. > But if you display the buffer in a new frame and the window manager > decides to always give focus to a new frame, that window will be > selected. It took me years to convince Drew that Emacs can't do > anything about that. Again, where are our capability variables? > It would help if we had APIs that left the choice whether a new frame > should receive focus or be raised to the application. I've never seen > one that does that. (Rightfully so - think of applications that within > milliseconds ask for moving focus from one window to another and back.) I'm thinking of one at the moment. ;-( [ .... ] > > Yes. :-( But that (normal) frame _is_ selected. It's just that > > its focus has been redirected to the minibuffer frame. Normally, > > C-x o doesn't move the focus away from the currently focussed frame. > >> and about the window “selected within the frame” > >> For the selected frame, that window is called the “selected > >> window”—the one in which most editing takes place, and in which > >> the cursor for selected windows appears > >> Here the cursor for the selected window appears in the minibuffer > >> frame window and that's what fooled me. In which window should the > >> cursor appear in your opinion? > > In the focussed frame, in the selected window in it. That would be > > in the minibuffer window, surely? > But that's not the selected window which is, according to what you say > above, the selected window of the normal frame. > > I don't think the documentation in the Elisp manual quite covers > > complexities like MB-only frames and focus redirection. Surely C-x > > o shouldn't move the focus to a different frame? > When the minibuffer is active it should (even if it does not succeed in > all cases) because 'other-window' calls 'select-window'. > > Surely C-x o shouldn't move the focus to a different frame? > It did so ever since the code you elided was written. C-x o calls next-window and the spec for that, with arguments like ALL-FRAMES and MINIBUF is right on the boundaries of understandability. > > Here the user would have C-x 5 o to move to that normal frame. Any > > user chosing a minibuffer-only frame setup (for whatever advantages) > > should be aware of things like that. > This is not only about minibuffer-only frame setups. It can happen > whenever a frame without minibuffer is made. The underlying idea is > that navigation within the cyclic ordering of windows should be > coherent regardless of where the minibuffer window resides. > > That's a terrible piece of writing. The "using" could mean either > > of "switch between all the frames which use that MB frame" or > > "switch between all the frames by using the minibuffer frame as a > > mechanism". > > I still can't make sense out of that comment. But the code it was > > attached to caused the new frame to grab the focus, and that was > > what happened in the bug scenario. In fact there, the redirection > > of the new frame (the normal frame) was left pointing at itself. > You're barking at the wrong tree. That code worked well for half of > its lifetime. It strikes me it was really fragile code. In the middle of the function to switch the current frame there was a difficult to understand ad-hoc section which redirected the focus, sometimes. Surely that should be done somewhere else (where?) more systematically. > What really got us into the present bredouille was commit > 6355802033d202c63f6fff4b77bf2b0c7aecceef and its ill-fated decision to > call Fselect_window instead of directly setting selected frame and > window as the well-established and tested code in display_mode_lines > did and still does. I think we can understand the motivation behind that. Fselect_window will surely do everything to keep everything consistent and coherent. Just setting the variable is liable to lead to inconsistency and chaos if you're not very careful what you do. This pattern is not unknown in Emacs, where a high-level function (or command, even) wants to do things which are inconvenient at the nitty-gritty level. I don't recall seeing any comments about Fselect_window saying "be careful!". > In the sequel, obscure bugs began to pile up, all very difficult to > describe and reproduce (Bug#23124, Bug#24285, Bug#34317) and were fixed > with some trickery. The origin of all that evil remained in place. What is stopping you fixing it, given that you understand it better than anybody else? > Making the minibuffer follow the selected frame was just the final > stab. That's optional: now, either the MB follows the selected frame or it doesn't. > >> If we were to change that, we would change the entire cyclic > >> ordering of windows concept which explicitly states that "If the > >> minibuffer is active, the minibuffer window is included too" and > >> that window may reside on any frame. Yes. :-( > > If we change all this (and I think we should), we should do it in a > > way which doesn't disturb the cyclic ordering. > We should eliminate the original sin and be done with it once and for > all. Commit 6355802033d202....aecceef? Why not? > martin -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 56305) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Jul 2022 07:06:24 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 16 03:06:24 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42813 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1oCbse-0000ji-2t for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 16 Jul 2022 03:06:24 -0400 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.21]:41867) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <rudalics@HIDDEN>) id 1oCbsb-0000jT-KV for 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 16 Jul 2022 03:06:22 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1657955163; bh=d/fNy/FgO4bPWu+jmsAtj3ylkat7SOPdqgmXJmB4Flg=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Date:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:In-Reply-To; b=YkzOWOJoY7Kf/9KEfF9Nl3lWpYtip2my1yrUn9VBu5xxsZeHs3AZtJUguxoGgHJG9 WvcXrf13taDLO7zbWyEfMHipaqI4bKvj2A/W2raarVGzRyq3ZfZUSpQw3IEkbZrPrk ej7tIV4YahVfEUwmLLsLLEPIl8sfMOoa3DjoqAUE= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [192.168.1.102] ([46.125.249.70]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx104 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1M89L1-1o7wu818KZ-005FIK; Sat, 16 Jul 2022 09:06:03 +0200 Message-ID: <b572a2fc-de9d-7343-df57-35bad50c99ab@HIDDEN> Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2022 09:06:00 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [External] : bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame Content-Language: en-US To: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN>, Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN> References: <YsXRYxGddhK9uMN1@ACM> <5d86d890-9a2e-e4d6-13fb-da03285ea003@HIDDEN> <YsajbHnSgbScvguW@ACM> <c7a72562-1993-196e-d1a7-64ef70e4c775@HIDDEN> <YsgNC6meyQ7XHAkp@ACM> <dbd87661-92fc-d961-e82a-574116ffa03d@HIDDEN> <Ysle/8OJvZc3yOxf@ACM> <cc7ce72b-9c68-6301-1308-fb1ed7199c54@HIDDEN> <Ysq5Wlk17NXvGcDJ@ACM> <61fe102b-eec2-9711-560e-c141ed3cc6e4@HIDDEN> <YsxOPcXyFPnCI0fo@ACM> <171bab25-5eb2-884b-5c32-bcfe4fed21cc@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR10MB54884AB3FA72DACEF928AF5FF3869@HIDDEN> From: martin rudalics <rudalics@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <SJ0PR10MB54884AB3FA72DACEF928AF5FF3869@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:1rS1IRR6nr3nhJkWKOVO5/GgYWF9r5tNxJsVDXRVOSHsF3T35i5 t+rwYPLuCyHQxEMVCJVOqEZSzWy2XKYFRdPDsctbKxdKq6TYKr27hggHCjtuRm/08xxcb25 CkDfPHLJiSPYf2Seq/DL3dn06FOvoO+k2IK+7MtwBXYEJtHwBbE/ympHe0NrtPsUKmOczXx YA4Go3bC6fG/uLVI5oi0A== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:4EcQC1cUp4g=:ybL0kQDq1heHKK9AgKB+Se DQsIsAwZTfQZgPolOlQq67XGf4GzpNTX5gudRNQNdMlMQucPcKxQ348mnXF+SOzBfx0rEL/5H zrmiax5P7a5ekFsQ/LQSAt1PEZmkxWg1sBQ2Zov+dn14euGzkzukFPefqoM1LOJgkOTlw9j6x ez4sSaoUv9QETLtQeeZdJLbO5UXFZbefL6uA+YfxCMIhziYJZOJv5FvpIiPv4FwpDvy5BDgKy fM5Jx+BGVe/iQOTurWQcRjNvK9P2tHFC8PJIqC+Ne6lrH/rjB2EbBV6gwlHMndsHEZlUaL9w5 kin55ct+n2zdRXCwExIkqvrT07T89KHkc6ii7RMTtafoY1uf/XHi3afWlay5IJFEyvhb7ekwE zxWazzobv1v32l0MO75nL1QLAY5M7zIZ3kQqoPt8v6NnMNAT137AST8NA2J796QmGwtWwW5dP i655+oNCj01WeEADcV/jOBCw+rgi6I+WUSxadvNCQexFGxaOqBNVRSLMOIW3L11ayzEZD5Tcz d2kNOuBlR5zpPHBfzFRaTOMIbNsz7frfvuyizcn5pX2n+bcvOWmHq4/RZjf8guYAcadp54E3i dtRkcBegld+yZ1GvC2Uv8lizcPW3rQ63RCHHjzud5GOSd7BzP9R82RIig+5YCzzpR0iWKE0X0 EUcn81uefNw+L/8em5wACzBl/aFz+FEuQ0PQ2uW5e0WWRs6K1JVaCiR0AnNMH8+Sn6/wPV+E1 LLPaUdvWTKwPgvhYyhqvardO0MGz5h0H5afSExF0/knsZDx8ImQals+YXdC5xBj6MlGVUkM2P xMviUN0lLYj/V2xCtdk9QyUyUd09gisUQhuIACDJuCr0SzkM0yLVIEGOxpsZA8xgVE5hXUrW5 TCmGz73n41Qbew1bzdQMVkfV1BhNlwLYMbDbkM51RpuukbQytnZ/jYn9UxqCQw3i4bpq+BPdz 8+bkuqtA/HeOg0+d8SNHvByIf3ji8sRwXfDjE36qfEoPZ1uDwypi1hF8mqJICo3o2R0Wn0BqH 4KcQGEFebyfxsDF/7NpZ/kOz0tN/mAeUUSHSkAteBtVaw6WPFnDah2GjyVBzs0fONryF8Hk4E qGTbRrCQOhoLLcNT9IPwL7d8DzZGH9/ftwGQnpO1o3gq2la+K/KG3/XoA== X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56305 Cc: "56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, "monnier@HIDDEN" <monnier@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) >> But if you display the buffer in a new frame and the window manager >> decides to always give focus to a new frame, that window will be >> selected. It took me years to convince Drew that Emacs can't do >> anything about that. > > Odd. I have no recollection of ever not being > convinced that frame operations are often beyond > Emacs's control (i.e., that window mgrs rule the > roost), or that `display-buffer' isn't, itself, > about selecting a window. Then how about This is driving me crazy. I've tried a zillion ways to try to work around this problem, to no avail. On MS Windows, whenever a new frame is created, it becomes "selected"/"focussed". I use quote-marks here, because I think it might be more than what Emacs calls frame selection & focus. I admit that it's unclear to me just what's going on. ... I've tried every hack I can think of, from saving and restoring the selected buffer/window/frame, to redirecting and un-redirecting the frame focus, to playing with before-make-frame-hook and after-make-frame-functions. I cannot get the new frame to become un-"selected"/"focussed" and let me continue to use the minibuffer for input. > As I don't follow commits, could you situate the > change you're talking about in terms of a given > Emacs release or past discussion (e.g. bug thread)? > I'm curious about what got broken when (and why). The original commit from 2008 can be studied here: https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git/commit/?id=6355802033d202c63f6fff4b77bf2b0c7aecceef It was complemented in 2012 by: https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git/commit/?id=c6bf30222430f41fbb696e296f0f63f465eefc35 I have not tried to find out which one is responsible for the current behavior nor which release first showed it. The oldest version I can build here is Emacs 24. Neither of these commits hints at a prior bug or discussion explaining why they were considered necessary. It's interesting that these commits, while mostly acting on the function unwind_format_mode_line, do not affect the formatting of mode lines via display_mode_lines because the part of the vector used by these commits is always NULL, nil or false there. Hence the later check if (WINDOW_LIVE_P (old_window)) always fails when called from display_mode_line and display_mode_lines correctly restores old window and frame via restore_selected_window. Restoring the current buffer could be the only worthy contribution of these changes but ironically is not done from display_mode_line - the second argument of format_mode_line_unwind_data being NULL there. >> We should eliminate the original sin and be >> done with it once and for all. > > Probably easier said than done? It's trivial because display_mode_lines handles it correctly. The only difficulty is to convince people that the commits mentioned above are fundamentally flawed. So far, my explanations have been met with cold disregard. martin
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 56305) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Jul 2022 16:03:20 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jul 12 12:03:20 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43580 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1oBILq-0007M3-1n for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 12 Jul 2022 12:03:20 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:37178) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1oBILn-0007LY-Lm for 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 12 Jul 2022 12:03:04 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:37542) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1oBILh-0001HE-A0; Tue, 12 Jul 2022 12:02:57 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=89sObEac55tS2nFRrmUlym4/7OWvKrW5E0rgW/IGxTc=; b=rUp+gtQjg4gh kDrC3GngzsznEr6KcQ/JUnN1ykNdf8wJG9YZzL1f77QztyMybeGQS2ZzbjP4JTsf80eG1JqpaKY1k LDfcd5r0zqnHn7n2mBQRk4dG1oYue94vpcar0qW1zy4dtVbSlsEFfbqg9xUG78A3SQ734ift/YufG sPqthJpolFnMUvu1H30v0qMKsn7JOf4bWDwd3EuVq91STVhSKyrXkDJTmQ4B8QCQxzHXM7IlFre8L 2dhslIo41iktj7LL3TCEg5k9U7wieuleOvZ/rEyQTno9tA+0mYN5tcNHWt09v9nW3uJ72u3Doui47 +VHf+FVBkd0KLJaub2KuDw==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=4927 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1oBILg-00060d-Px; Tue, 12 Jul 2022 12:02:57 -0400 Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 19:02:46 +0300 Message-Id: <83y1wywc7t.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: martin rudalics <rudalics@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <f890521d-e9b4-2edb-a9c0-7a235624ffcf@HIDDEN> (message from martin rudalics on Tue, 12 Jul 2022 09:33:00 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame References: <YsXAqHnCkG45OuO5@ACM> <83zghm5evt.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsXRYxGddhK9uMN1@ACM> <5d86d890-9a2e-e4d6-13fb-da03285ea003@HIDDEN> <YsajbHnSgbScvguW@ACM> <c7a72562-1993-196e-d1a7-64ef70e4c775@HIDDEN> <YsgNC6meyQ7XHAkp@ACM> <dbd87661-92fc-d961-e82a-574116ffa03d@HIDDEN> <Ysle/8OJvZc3yOxf@ACM> <cc7ce72b-9c68-6301-1308-fb1ed7199c54@HIDDEN> <Ysq5Wlk17NXvGcDJ@ACM> <61fe102b-eec2-9711-560e-c141ed3cc6e4@HIDDEN> <83wncjzyvs.fsf@HIDDEN> <f890521d-e9b4-2edb-a9c0-7a235624ffcf@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56305 Cc: acm@HIDDEN, 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 09:33:00 +0200 > Cc: acm@HIDDEN, monnier@HIDDEN, 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > From: martin rudalics <rudalics@HIDDEN> > > > Can you tell how inhibit-redisplay is related to the original recipe > > in this bug? Specifically, at what point is inhibit-redisplay set in > > that recipe and by which code? > > It's all explained here in gui_consider_frame_title: > > /* select-frame calls resize_mini_window, which could resize the > mini-window and by that undo the effect of this redisplay > cycle wrt minibuffer and echo-area display. Binding > inhibit-redisplay to t makes the call to resize_mini_window a > no-op, thus avoiding the adverse side effects. */ > > /* The following was moved before the record_unwind_protect form > below to inhibit redisplay also when restoring the selected > window/frame: This avoids that resize_mini_window sizes back > the minibuffer window of a temporarily selected frame. See > Bug#34317. */ > specbind (Qinhibit_redisplay, Qt); OK, but then we should have a comment pointing to this in the change you proposed for emacs-28, and I agree to fix the problem as you suggested with that comment added. Thanks.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
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bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 56305) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Jul 2022 07:35:14 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jul 12 03:35:14 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41568 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1oBAQL-00053v-Ly for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 12 Jul 2022 03:35:14 -0400 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.15]:40991) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <rudalics@HIDDEN>) id 1oBAQJ-00053d-SN for 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 12 Jul 2022 03:35:12 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1657611301; bh=VBfxrKXUCOeG382OaM+NIypyJQMiFoAeXht0k1P0SQg=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Date:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:In-Reply-To; b=CaXMGaTU1WIgnuh6GhWdRF8w6IBk0LJ9Ik1UzOOXnUppibO9PYRdfxKU9VzUhloYA W0yfiORAp+l1O6d3oKtzmf++dgMZDz8RijMW/HB6PjoxwEADF4UeDFL8s8VIogpFw0 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bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
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Received: (at 56305) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Jul 2022 07:33:29 +0000
From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jul 12 03:33:29 2022
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Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 09:33:00 +0200
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Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame
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To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
References: <YsXAqHnCkG45OuO5@ACM> <83zghm5evt.fsf@HIDDEN>
<YsXRYxGddhK9uMN1@ACM> <5d86d890-9a2e-e4d6-13fb-da03285ea003@HIDDEN>
<YsajbHnSgbScvguW@ACM> <c7a72562-1993-196e-d1a7-64ef70e4c775@HIDDEN>
<YsgNC6meyQ7XHAkp@ACM> <dbd87661-92fc-d961-e82a-574116ffa03d@HIDDEN>
<Ysle/8OJvZc3yOxf@ACM> <cc7ce72b-9c68-6301-1308-fb1ed7199c54@HIDDEN>
<Ysq5Wlk17NXvGcDJ@ACM> <61fe102b-eec2-9711-560e-c141ed3cc6e4@HIDDEN>
<83wncjzyvs.fsf@HIDDEN>
From: martin rudalics <rudalics@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <83wncjzyvs.fsf@HIDDEN>
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> Can you tell how inhibit-redisplay is related to the original recipe
> in this bug? Specifically, at what point is inhibit-redisplay set in
> that recipe and by which code?
It's all explained here in gui_consider_frame_title:
/* select-frame calls resize_mini_window, which could resize the
mini-window and by that undo the effect of this redisplay
cycle wrt minibuffer and echo-area display. Binding
inhibit-redisplay to t makes the call to resize_mini_window a
no-op, thus avoiding the adverse side effects. */
/* The following was moved before the record_unwind_protect form
below to inhibit redisplay also when restoring the selected
window/frame: This avoids that resize_mini_window sizes back
the minibuffer window of a temporarily selected frame. See
Bug#34317. */
specbind (Qinhibit_redisplay, Qt);
Obviously, gui_consider_frame_title should never even try to resize the
mini window in the first place. The same holds for moving the frame's
focus.
martin
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 56305) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Jul 2022 20:09:27 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jul 11 16:09:27 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41071 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1oAzie-0001GB-1h for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2022 16:09:27 -0400 Received: from colin.muc.de ([193.149.48.1]:12006 helo=mail.muc.de) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <acm@HIDDEN>) id 1oAzic-0001Fy-6H for 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2022 16:09:22 -0400 Received: (qmail 53491 invoked by uid 3782); 11 Jul 2022 20:09:15 -0000 Received: from acm.muc.de (p4fe15cf0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [79.225.92.240]) (using STARTTLS) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 11 Jul 2022 22:09:15 +0200 Received: (qmail 10149 invoked by uid 1000); 11 Jul 2022 20:09:15 -0000 Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2022 20:09:15 +0000 To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame Message-ID: <YsyDa8OukfP1wGEU@ACM> References: <YsgNC6meyQ7XHAkp@ACM> <dbd87661-92fc-d961-e82a-574116ffa03d@HIDDEN> <Ysle/8OJvZc3yOxf@ACM> <cc7ce72b-9c68-6301-1308-fb1ed7199c54@HIDDEN> <Ysq5Wlk17NXvGcDJ@ACM> <61fe102b-eec2-9711-560e-c141ed3cc6e4@HIDDEN> <YsxOPcXyFPnCI0fo@ACM> <83fsj7zjkw.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsxanDhgeULKWUQN@ACM> <jwvedyr5zna.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <jwvedyr5zna.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> X-Submission-Agent: TMDA/1.3.x (Ph3nix) From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN> X-Primary-Address: acm@HIDDEN X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56305 Cc: rudalics@HIDDEN, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, acm@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hello, Stefan. On Mon, Jul 11, 2022 at 13:34:55 -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote: > > Perhaps that "sometimes" could be expanded upon. How is the Lisp hacker > > supposed to know when she's got to raise or focus the frame in addition > > to selecting a window? > I think we need to distinguish the WM-level notion of focus from an > "Emacs-internal" notion of focus. > >From that point of view, WM-focus and raising should be changed (from > ELisp) only in fairly rare circumstances. Like C-x 5 o, you mean? ;-) > > OK, so maybe we could agree that select-window ought to move focus onto > > the target frame, Or, on the other hand, maybe not. > Hmm... maybe in some cases, but probably not when Emacs doesn't have focus. > > but not raise it (modulo fascistic window managers). > Indeed. > > My larger point is that all these functionalities, focussing, raising, > > selecting, "highlighting", whatever, seem to be mixed together in the > > code. If we could separate them into coherent functions, we would have > > fewer bugs like the current one in the future. > In theory we do separate them, with things like > select-frame-set-input-focus/x-focus-frame/raise-frame on one side and > select-frame/window on the other. I'm talking more about the practice than the theory. This bug happened when a select-frame grabbed the focus for the wrong frame. select-frame isn't meant to do that. > Stefan -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 56305) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Jul 2022 20:02:00 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jul 11 16:02:00 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41064 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1oAzbU-00014z-9v for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2022 16:02:00 -0400 Received: from colin.muc.de ([193.149.48.1]:11810 helo=mail.muc.de) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <acm@HIDDEN>) id 1oAzbS-00014n-Sw for 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2022 16:01:59 -0400 Received: (qmail 46477 invoked by uid 3782); 11 Jul 2022 20:01:52 -0000 Received: from acm.muc.de (p4fe15cf0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [79.225.92.240]) (using STARTTLS) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 11 Jul 2022 22:01:52 +0200 Received: (qmail 10121 invoked by uid 1000); 11 Jul 2022 20:01:52 -0000 Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2022 20:01:52 +0000 To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame Message-ID: <YsyBsMpS1LovrmmO@ACM> References: <YsajbHnSgbScvguW@ACM> <c7a72562-1993-196e-d1a7-64ef70e4c775@HIDDEN> <YsgNC6meyQ7XHAkp@ACM> <dbd87661-92fc-d961-e82a-574116ffa03d@HIDDEN> <Ysle/8OJvZc3yOxf@ACM> <cc7ce72b-9c68-6301-1308-fb1ed7199c54@HIDDEN> <Ysq5Wlk17NXvGcDJ@ACM> <61fe102b-eec2-9711-560e-c141ed3cc6e4@HIDDEN> <YsxOPcXyFPnCI0fo@ACM> <jwvk08j60ut.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <jwvk08j60ut.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> X-Submission-Agent: TMDA/1.3.x (Ph3nix) From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN> X-Primary-Address: acm@HIDDEN X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56305 Cc: martin rudalics <rudalics@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, acm@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hello, Stefan. On Mon, Jul 11, 2022 at 13:06:40 -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote: > > Apologies: the doc string for select-window virtually says it grabs the > > focus. Couldn't we go the whole way, and explicitly state that > > select-window is really "select-window-set-input-focus"? > This sounds problematic at the very least for cases like > `with-selected-window` and `save-window-excursion`, where we don't > really want the code to "set and (un/re)set" the focus. And similarly > when code does `select-window` while Emacs doesn't have focus at all. Actually, at the moment I don't believe that select-window does grab the focus. I've been a bit confused about this over the last day or so. > We do have a kind of messy situation w.r.t distinguishing the notion of > selected-frame (and selected-window to some extend) from its interaction > with window-manager focus. But I'm not sure we can (nor should) really > unify the two. No. But if we did, it would be via an extra argument `no-focus' to select-window. I still say no. > Stefan -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame
In-Reply-To: <YsxanDhgeULKWUQN@ACM> (Alan Mackenzie's message of "Mon, 11 Jul
2022 17:15:08 +0000")
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> Perhaps that "sometimes" could be expanded upon. How is the Lisp hacker
> supposed to know when she's got to raise or focus the frame in addition
> to selecting a window?
I think we need to distinguish the WM-level notion of focus from an
"Emacs-internal" notion of focus.
From that point of view, WM-focus and raising should be changed (from
ELisp) only in fairly rare circumstances.
> OK, so maybe we could agree that select-window ought to move focus onto
> the target frame,
Hmm... maybe in some cases, but probably not when Emacs doesn't have focus.
> but not raise it (modulo fascistic window managers).
Indeed.
> My larger point is that all these functionalities, focussing, raising,
> selecting, "highlighting", whatever, seem to be mixed together in the
> code. If we could separate them into coherent functions, we would have
> fewer bugs like the current one in the future.
In theory we do separate them, with things like
select-frame-set-input-focus/x-focus-frame/raise-frame on one side and
select-frame/window on the other.
Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 56305) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Jul 2022 17:34:06 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jul 11 13:34:06 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40925 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1oAxIM-0001Fq-Hn for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2022 13:34:06 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:36250) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1oAxIK-0001FG-N1 for 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2022 13:34:05 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:57084) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1oAxIE-0000dl-Hp; Mon, 11 Jul 2022 13:33:58 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=mwuymJ4kHwipUiZjm4kfQDnjYMz8FCI+mQy3KNRF8ck=; b=TEE8YzH1F0sg fs60arclO6YMmliyZsoTonXkRIqkaFm4yRL8QGOFA5KQDWEB1slHZ5snSzCuEegN2H0FxtSYIdks/ rX/BoUdwpAifJOnrdJvrQEj07nfmrBQ8O7KIKy25CMBx01LnnfHHYZZdS6qJXOtrNjfNNm7fGCf2t pFHC9I/9VeYF4GS37CcRxXY4pmJXAINfpuW4RVFRZzZqzUfVbnPxEH78sW5Id3ywKrDQCFDH3qV5g 8JlWVex5ZX80GLLBDszfdCpDGOQ7+LcBSFgU5eZScLXAnd0fxzEWaHEy7wnWhnuI5DirADs66ngCA MqM7XSPceXNHf1tekW8kdQ==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=2022 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1oAxIC-0003ZD-SK; Mon, 11 Jul 2022 13:33:58 -0400 Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2022 20:33:44 +0300 Message-Id: <837d4jzh8n.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <YsxanDhgeULKWUQN@ACM> (message from Alan Mackenzie on Mon, 11 Jul 2022 17:15:08 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame References: <YsajbHnSgbScvguW@ACM> <c7a72562-1993-196e-d1a7-64ef70e4c775@HIDDEN> <YsgNC6meyQ7XHAkp@ACM> <dbd87661-92fc-d961-e82a-574116ffa03d@HIDDEN> <Ysle/8OJvZc3yOxf@ACM> <cc7ce72b-9c68-6301-1308-fb1ed7199c54@HIDDEN> <Ysq5Wlk17NXvGcDJ@ACM> <61fe102b-eec2-9711-560e-c141ed3cc6e4@HIDDEN> <YsxOPcXyFPnCI0fo@ACM> <83fsj7zjkw.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsxanDhgeULKWUQN@ACM> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56305 Cc: rudalics@HIDDEN, 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@HIDDEN, acm@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2022 17:15:08 +0000 > Cc: rudalics@HIDDEN, monnier@HIDDEN, 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, > acm@HIDDEN > From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN> > > > Please don't forget that Emacs is not entirely in control of what > > happens here: the window manager is also an important part of this > > dance, and it has its own ideas about which frame should be raised and > > which should be given focus. It is unreasonable to expect Emacs to be > > able to work around every idiosyncratic aspect of the behavior of > > every window manager, let alone customized by users. > > Perhaps that "sometimes" could be expanded upon. How is the Lisp hacker > supposed to know when she's got to raise or focus the frame in addition > to selecting a window? The documentation answers that question in the best way we can. > OK, but that doesn't really address the point I was trying to make. That > is, that select-window (and other functions too) should have an > unambiguous, clear function, which should be unambiguously documented. select-window _does_ have a well-defined function: it makes the window the selected window. That's all. > Whether select-window raises the frame or not (and you say here not), it > should _always_ either do it or not do it. There shouldn't be a > "sometimes" in the doc. It is these "sometimes"es which lead to bugs > like the current one. Whether select-window also raises the frame and/or redirect focus is determined by other settings, some of them in Emacs and some of them outside Emacs. > OK, so maybe we could agree that select-window ought to move focus onto > the target frame, but not raise it (modulo fascistic window managers). Isn't that what happens, at least in the vast majority of cases? > Then we'd probably want a separate function which does raise that frame. We already have that: raise-frame. > My larger point is that all these functionalities, focussing, raising, > selecting, "highlighting", whatever, seem to be mixed together in the > code. If we could separate them into coherent functions, we would have > fewer bugs like the current one in the future. I'm not sure it's possible (or even desirable).
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 56305) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Jul 2022 17:15:18 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jul 11 13:15:17 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40897 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1oAx09-0000jJ-Ju for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2022 13:15:17 -0400 Received: from colin.muc.de ([193.149.48.1]:62892 helo=mail.muc.de) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <acm@HIDDEN>) id 1oAx07-0000iy-Mv for 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2022 13:15:16 -0400 Received: (qmail 23002 invoked by uid 3782); 11 Jul 2022 17:15:09 -0000 Received: from acm.muc.de (p4fe15cf0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [79.225.92.240]) (using STARTTLS) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Mon, 11 Jul 2022 19:15:08 +0200 Received: (qmail 7792 invoked by uid 1000); 11 Jul 2022 17:15:08 -0000 Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2022 17:15:08 +0000 To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame Message-ID: <YsxanDhgeULKWUQN@ACM> References: <YsajbHnSgbScvguW@ACM> <c7a72562-1993-196e-d1a7-64ef70e4c775@HIDDEN> <YsgNC6meyQ7XHAkp@ACM> <dbd87661-92fc-d961-e82a-574116ffa03d@HIDDEN> <Ysle/8OJvZc3yOxf@ACM> <cc7ce72b-9c68-6301-1308-fb1ed7199c54@HIDDEN> <Ysq5Wlk17NXvGcDJ@ACM> <61fe102b-eec2-9711-560e-c141ed3cc6e4@HIDDEN> <YsxOPcXyFPnCI0fo@ACM> <83fsj7zjkw.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <83fsj7zjkw.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Submission-Agent: TMDA/1.3.x (Ph3nix) From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN> X-Primary-Address: acm@HIDDEN X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56305 Cc: rudalics@HIDDEN, 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@HIDDEN, acm@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hello, Eli. On Mon, Jul 11, 2022 at 19:43:11 +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2022 16:22:21 +0000 > > Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, monnier@HIDDEN, > > 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, acm@HIDDEN > > From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN> > > > So you implemented 'minibuffer-follows-selected-frame' despite the fact > > > that multiple frames hardly make sense on your usual setup? > > That's not a fact. I typically run with several/many frames on my tty. > > Six, or even nine, is not uncommon. I switch between them using the > > <Fn> keys. The minibuffer not staying in "its own" frame was annoying > > me quite a bit. > I hope you'll agree that focus redirection is not very relevant to TTY > frames. There, the top-most frame is the only one visible, and by > definition it has the focus. I think we're in violent agreement here. > > > Note that sometimes selecting a window is not enough to show it, or > > > make its frame the top-most frame on display: you may also need to > > > raise the frame or make sure input focus is directed to that frame. > > That sounds like the text from a bug report. Selecting a window should > > either do all these GUI things, or it shouldn't do them. "Sometimes" > > feels like an apology for failing to fix a bug before a release. > Please don't forget that Emacs is not entirely in control of what > happens here: the window manager is also an important part of this > dance, and it has its own ideas about which frame should be raised and > which should be given focus. It is unreasonable to expect Emacs to be > able to work around every idiosyncratic aspect of the behavior of > every window manager, let alone customized by users. Perhaps that "sometimes" could be expanded upon. How is the Lisp hacker supposed to know when she's got to raise or focus the frame in addition to selecting a window? > > > wouldn't make sense if in a majority of cases selecting a window > > > would _not_ also raise its frame and direct input focus to it. > > So why can't we make select-window _always_ raise its frame and get > > input focus? > Because it's wrong! If I want to type into a window, it does NOT mean > I want that window's frame raise! Imagine a situation where I look at > some text in one frame and type something into another frame: I can > legitimately want to see all of the text I'm reading, but only a small > portion of the text into which I'm writing. OK, but that doesn't really address the point I was trying to make. That is, that select-window (and other functions too) should have an unambiguous, clear function, which should be unambiguously documented. Whether select-window raises the frame or not (and you say here not), it should _always_ either do it or not do it. There shouldn't be a "sometimes" in the doc. It is these "sometimes"es which lead to bugs like the current one. > Automatically raising a frame in this case would be an annoyance, since > each time I move the focus into the "typing" frame, it would raise and > obscure my "reading" frame. OK, so maybe we could agree that select-window ought to move focus onto the target frame, but not raise it (modulo fascistic window managers). Then we'd probably want a separate function which does raise that frame. My larger point is that all these functionalities, focussing, raising, selecting, "highlighting", whatever, seem to be mixed together in the code. If we could separate them into coherent functions, we would have fewer bugs like the current one in the future. -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame
In-Reply-To: <YsxOPcXyFPnCI0fo@ACM> (Alan Mackenzie's message of "Mon, 11 Jul
2022 16:22:21 +0000")
Message-ID: <jwvk08j60ut.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN>
References: <YsXRYxGddhK9uMN1@ACM>
<5d86d890-9a2e-e4d6-13fb-da03285ea003@HIDDEN> <YsajbHnSgbScvguW@ACM>
<c7a72562-1993-196e-d1a7-64ef70e4c775@HIDDEN> <YsgNC6meyQ7XHAkp@ACM>
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Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2022 13:06:40 -0400
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> Apologies: the doc string for select-window virtually says it grabs the
> focus. Couldn't we go the whole way, and explicitly state that
> select-window is really "select-window-set-input-focus"?
This sounds problematic at the very least for cases like
`with-selected-window` and `save-window-excursion`, where we don't
really want the code to "set and (un/re)set" the focus. And similarly
when code does `select-window` while Emacs doesn't have focus at all.
We do have a kind of messy situation w.r.t distinguishing the notion of
selected-frame (and selected-window to some extend) from its interaction
with window-manager focus. But I'm not sure we can (nor should) really
unify the two.
Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 56305) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Jul 2022 16:43:40 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jul 11 12:43:40 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40867 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1oAwVQ-00067v-9z for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2022 12:43:39 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:48100) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1oAwVO-00067i-Lr for 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2022 12:43:31 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:56302) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1oAwVI-0004YG-NH; Mon, 11 Jul 2022 12:43:24 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=u1CPbWpIuqS8ciBEW5/nKyOfLWgOc4ibbNW+C7v+G1Y=; b=h1b1ibPD27KJ r9Hu1RtmYlKpYGcfbw/LkPzxzI66RBSc4pTXvOjZvpNnRBgnk9qnBa6TBFNubMEg9r6tTIFOlIJPf jbd1KzohzZmUbijOidcVn4QAwQLwHfZVRkaPAv8xpSiqdFJaZJ1SL35aT6JM8YatjIT00Lo7ayIr/ +28PMqooHnhDJjXJLfdtx/ns36m9VnCAf2ylJ8kapGI55yR5BcWSho3rWChg4uPPh1QS10WXs55Ft LvOfdOhszmYjd/7Ul5LlQYmtQADblYVwgfaQ5AzpsgCpkivb8/ZVwrFuVWKICOiRHGcNVDvaQy/Lk rnwAQa73qMdvaxgYrayM2g==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=2911 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1oAwVI-00073S-6E; Mon, 11 Jul 2022 12:43:24 -0400 Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2022 19:43:11 +0300 Message-Id: <83fsj7zjkw.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <YsxOPcXyFPnCI0fo@ACM> (message from Alan Mackenzie on Mon, 11 Jul 2022 16:22:21 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame References: <YsXRYxGddhK9uMN1@ACM> <5d86d890-9a2e-e4d6-13fb-da03285ea003@HIDDEN> <YsajbHnSgbScvguW@ACM> <c7a72562-1993-196e-d1a7-64ef70e4c775@HIDDEN> <YsgNC6meyQ7XHAkp@ACM> <dbd87661-92fc-d961-e82a-574116ffa03d@HIDDEN> <Ysle/8OJvZc3yOxf@ACM> <cc7ce72b-9c68-6301-1308-fb1ed7199c54@HIDDEN> <Ysq5Wlk17NXvGcDJ@ACM> <61fe102b-eec2-9711-560e-c141ed3cc6e4@HIDDEN> <YsxOPcXyFPnCI0fo@ACM> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56305 Cc: rudalics@HIDDEN, 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@HIDDEN, acm@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2022 16:22:21 +0000 > Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, monnier@HIDDEN, > 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, acm@HIDDEN > From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN> > > > So you implemented 'minibuffer-follows-selected-frame' despite the fact > > that multiple frames hardly make sense on your usual setup? > > That's not a fact. I typically run with several/many frames on my tty. > Six, or even nine, is not uncommon. I switch between them using the > <Fn> keys. The minibuffer not staying in "its own" frame was annoying > me quite a bit. I hope you'll agree that focus redirection is not very relevant to TTY frames. There, the top-most frame is the only one visible, and by definition it has the focus. > > Note that sometimes selecting a window is not enough to show it, or > > make its frame the top-most frame on display: you may also need to > > raise the frame or make sure input focus is directed to that frame. > > That sounds like the text from a bug report. Selecting a window should > either do all these GUI things, or it shouldn't do them. "Sometimes" > feels like an apology for failing to fix a bug before a release. Please don't forget that Emacs is not entirely in control of what happens here: the window manager is also an important part of this dance, and it has its own ideas about which frame should be raised and which should be given focus. It is unreasonable to expect Emacs to be able to work around every idiosyncratic aspect of the behavior of every window manager, let alone customized by users. > > wouldn't make sense if in a majority of cases selecting a window would > > _not_ also raise its frame and direct input focus to it. > > So why can't we make select-window _always_ raise its frame and get > input focus? Because it's wrong! If I want to type into a window, it does NOT mean I want that window's frame raise! Imagine a situation where I look at some text in one frame and type something into another frame: I can legitimately want to see all of the text I'm reading, but only a small portion of the text into which I'm writing. Automatically raising a frame in this case would be an annoyance, since each time I move the focus into the "typing" frame, it would raise and obscure my "reading" frame.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
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To: martin rudalics <rudalics@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame
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Hello, Martin.
On Mon, Jul 11, 2022 at 09:45:59 +0200, martin rudalics wrote:
> > Thanks! I use xfce, too. But I haven't changed anything here away from
> > its default. I run Emacs on a tty anyway.
> So you implemented 'minibuffer-follows-selected-frame' despite the fact
> that multiple frames hardly make sense on your usual setup?
That's not a fact. I typically run with several/many frames on my tty.
Six, or even nine, is not uncommon. I switch between them using the
<Fn> keys. The minibuffer not staying in "its own" frame was annoying
me quite a bit.
> >> Now note that when in my scenario I type C-x C-c, the minibuffer frame
> >> is selected and has focus.
> > But not raised, though? Surely the MB frame being selected and having
> > focus is what we want, so that we can type "yes" or "no" next.
> With "when" I meant "at the time" I type C-x C-c.
Sorry for the misunderstanding.
> > Try running GDB in an Emacs on a Linux tty. That's what I do anyway. I
> > seem to remember watching the focus, last time I did this, a day or two
> > ago.
> I have no experience with running GDB from anywhere but Emacs itself.
> IIRC Linux ttys are full-screen, so where would my Emacs frames fit in?
The GDB Emacs is on a tty, in a single frame. The frames of the target
Emacs can be on X Windows. (Or in another tty.) So you would start the
target Emacs in X, note its process-id with ps a, start gdb in the tty
Emacs, then do attach <proc-id>, and carry on as usual. When you reach
a breakpoint, the X session appears to hang, at which point you type
<ctrl>-<alt>-<F4> (for example) to get to the Emacs and GDB. When you
type continue in GDB, you then return to X with (e.g.) <alt>-<F7>. It's
not as cumbersome as it sounds.
> > Anyway, we'll have to decide soon what to do for Emacs 28.2. The
> > first pretest is already out there. What we do needs to be simple
> > and safe. The alternatives so far seem to be do nothing, apply the
> > 53-line deletion from master (which Eli has already rejected) or
> > apply my patch above (fixed to work with tty's). At the moment, I
> > would favour the last of these.
> For Emacs 28.2 I could imagine something like
> diff --git a/src/frame.c b/src/frame.c
> index 0c278259a7..27442ee120 100644
> --- a/src/frame.c
> +++ b/src/frame.c
> @@ -1499,7 +1499,8 @@ do_switch_frame (Lisp_Object frame, int track, int for_deletion, Lisp_Object nor
> #else /* ! 0 */
> /* Instead, apply it only to the frame we're pointing to. */
> #ifdef HAVE_WINDOW_SYSTEM
> - if (track && FRAME_WINDOW_P (f) && FRAME_TERMINAL (f)->get_focus_frame)
> + if (track && NILP (Vinhibit_redisplay)
> + && FRAME_WINDOW_P (f) && FRAME_TERMINAL (f)->get_focus_frame)
> {
> Lisp_Object focus, gfocus;
> that is use the analogous unpleasant hack from resize_mini_window.
I tried it out. It appears to work. :-)
> > select-window and select-frame should NOT move the focus.
> I'd like to agree with you but implementing it is virtually impossible.
> Emacs would probably stop working immediately. Just try to tell people
> that 'select-window' will not give input focus to a window only because
> it happens to reside on another frame.
Apologies: the doc string for select-window virtually says it grabs the
focus. Couldn't we go the whole way, and explicitly state that
select-window is really "select-window-set-input-focus"?
> > select-frame is even documented (in the Elisp manual) not to do
> > this. That documentation is not true for Emacs 28.x, but may now
> > have become true in master since I removed those 53 lines from
> > do_switch_frame, but I'm not sure.
> The Elisp manual is controversial about this. A sentence like
> Note that sometimes selecting a window is not enough to show it, or
> make its frame the top-most frame on display: you may also need to
> raise the frame or make sure input focus is directed to that frame.
That sounds like the text from a bug report. Selecting a window should
either do all these GUI things, or it shouldn't do them. "Sometimes"
feels like an apology for failing to fix a bug before a release.
> wouldn't make sense if in a majority of cases selecting a window would
> _not_ also raise its frame and direct input focus to it.
So why can't we make select-window _always_ raise its frame and get
input focus? Perhaps we would also need a (new) function which would
just make the struct window * current for manipulation without it being
displayed on the screen.
That would give us two unambiguously distinct functions for windows, in
the same way we have (ought to have) select-frame-set-input-focus and
select-frame for frames. Here I advocate amending select-frame such
that it _never_ grabs the focus. (Assuming I haven't done that already
with that 53-line patch.)
> >> Unfortunately, it breaks C-x o. Try with my scenario but instead of
> >> answering the 'yes-or-no-p' question type C-x o. With Emacs 28.1 this
> >> selects the window on top of the normal frame. With current master it
> >> does nothing.
> > I don't think that's true. It selects the other window on the normal
> > frame (which is the selected frame), but retains the focus in the
> > minibuffer frame (the focus being redirected from the normal frame).
> Indeed. Which means that it contradicts the Elisp manual which says
> about 'select-window' that
> This function makes WINDOW the selected window and the window
> selected within its frame, and selects that frame.
Yes. :-( But that (normal) frame _is_ selected. It's just that its
focus has been redirected to the minibuffer frame. Normally, C-x o
doesn't move the focus away from the currently focussed frame.
> and about the window “selected within the frame”
> For the selected frame, that window is
> called the “selected window”—the one in which most editing takes place,
> and in which the cursor for selected windows appears
> Here the cursor for the selected window appears in the minibuffer frame
> window and that's what fooled me. In which window should the cursor
> appear in your opinion?
In the focussed frame, in the selected window in it. That would be in
the minibuffer window, surely?
I don't think the documentation in the Elisp manual quite covers
complexities like MB-only frames and focus redirection. Surely C-x o
shouldn't move the focus to a different frame?
> >> It doesn't even tell me that there is no other window to select. So
> >> this cure is certainly worse than the disease.
> > I think that might be over-stating things. Most of the time, users are
> > just going to be typing "yes" or "no" here.
> Then with
> emacs -Q --eval "(setq default-frame-alist '((minibuffer . nil)))"
> select the "normal" frame and type C-h f. In the minibuffer frame now
> type C-x o. This always used to select _and_ focus the window on the
> normal frame and would be needed, for example, to fetch the name of the
> function to describe from the normal window.
Surely C-x o shouldn't move the focus to a different frame? Here the
user would have C-x 5 o to move to that normal frame. Any user chosing
a minibuffer-only frame setup (for whatever advantages) should be aware
of things like that.
> This is the behavior described in the comment your patch elided as
> /* If a frame's focus has been redirected toward the currently
> selected frame, we should change the redirection to point to the
> newly selected frame. This means that if the focus is redirected
> from a minibufferless frame to a surrogate minibuffer frame, we
> can use `other-window' to switch between all the frames using
> that minibuffer frame, and the focus redirection will follow us
> around. */
That's a terrible piece of writing. The "using" could mean either of
"switch between all the frames which use that MB frame" or "switch
between all the frames by using the minibuffer frame as a mechanism".
I still can't make sense out of that comment. But the code it was
attached to caused the new frame to grab the focus, and that was what
happened in the bug scenario. In fact there, the redirection of the new
frame (the normal frame) was left pointing at itself.
> If we were to change that, we would change the entire cyclic ordering
> of windows concept which explicitly states that "If the minibuffer is
> active, the minibuffer window is included too" and that window may
> reside on any frame.
If we change all this (and I think we should), we should do it in a way
which doesn't disturb the cyclic ordering.
> martin
--
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
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From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
To: martin rudalics <rudalics@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <61fe102b-eec2-9711-560e-c141ed3cc6e4@HIDDEN> (message from
martin rudalics on Mon, 11 Jul 2022 09:45:59 +0200)
Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame
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> Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2022 09:45:59 +0200
> Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, monnier@HIDDEN,
> 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> From: martin rudalics <rudalics@HIDDEN>
>
> > Anyway, we'll have to decide soon what to do for Emacs 28.2. The first
> > pretest is already out there. What we do needs to be simple and safe.
> > The alternatives so far seem to be do nothing, apply the 53-line
> > deletion from master (which Eli has already rejected) or apply my patch
> > above (fixed to work with tty's). At the moment, I would favour the
> > last of these.
>
> For Emacs 28.2 I could imagine something like
>
> diff --git a/src/frame.c b/src/frame.c
> index 0c278259a7..27442ee120 100644
> --- a/src/frame.c
> +++ b/src/frame.c
> @@ -1499,7 +1499,8 @@ do_switch_frame (Lisp_Object frame, int track, int for_deletion, Lisp_Object nor
> #else /* ! 0 */
> /* Instead, apply it only to the frame we're pointing to. */
> #ifdef HAVE_WINDOW_SYSTEM
> - if (track && FRAME_WINDOW_P (f) && FRAME_TERMINAL (f)->get_focus_frame)
> + if (track && NILP (Vinhibit_redisplay)
> + && FRAME_WINDOW_P (f) && FRAME_TERMINAL (f)->get_focus_frame)
> {
> Lisp_Object focus, gfocus;
>
> that is use the analogous unpleasant hack from resize_mini_window.
Can you tell how inhibit-redisplay is related to the original recipe
in this bug? Specifically, at what point is inhibit-redisplay set in
that recipe and by which code?
Thanks.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 56305) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Jul 2022 07:46:16 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jul 11 03:46:16 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38187 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1oAo7U-0005n1-Ba for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2022 03:46:16 -0400 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.19]:53737) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <rudalics@HIDDEN>) id 1oAo7S-0005mn-2N for 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 11 Jul 2022 03:46:14 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1657525561; bh=IbBqBZ+KZrVvYTrq7rRoFGxFDA9pi6uJa+EmBdNzF4M=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Date:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:In-Reply-To; b=LNti1jEqSlHQcwNZgzzNJyFsCTnSSyxOShUuNHqX0P3q5ZifdayZKPFPV3Yk+oocC 3+56/JqFPcmK3VvK11XaM+yFgJ3GnDJMOosyayVtU65ra6enWz0fre1zzOQIf/iGVC 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bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 56305) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Jul 2022 16:56:00 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jul 10 12:56:00 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37744 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1oAaDv-0007n6-NI for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2022 12:56:00 -0400 Received: from colin.muc.de ([193.149.48.1]:22764 helo=mail.muc.de) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <acm@HIDDEN>) id 1oAaDt-0007mo-DK for 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2022 12:55:58 -0400 Received: (qmail 60640 invoked by uid 3782); 10 Jul 2022 16:55:50 -0000 Received: from acm.muc.de (p4fe15b15.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [79.225.91.21]) (using STARTTLS) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sun, 10 Jul 2022 18:55:49 +0200 Received: (qmail 10251 invoked by uid 1000); 10 Jul 2022 16:55:49 -0000 Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2022 16:55:49 +0000 To: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: [External] : bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame Message-ID: <YssElY/lQyRaVeHG@ACM> References: <YsXRYxGddhK9uMN1@ACM> <5d86d890-9a2e-e4d6-13fb-da03285ea003@HIDDEN> <YsajbHnSgbScvguW@ACM> <c7a72562-1993-196e-d1a7-64ef70e4c775@HIDDEN> <YsgNC6meyQ7XHAkp@ACM> <dbd87661-92fc-d961-e82a-574116ffa03d@HIDDEN> <Ysle/8OJvZc3yOxf@ACM> <cc7ce72b-9c68-6301-1308-fb1ed7199c54@HIDDEN> <Ysq5Wlk17NXvGcDJ@ACM> <SJ0PR10MB5488BA48B489EC3F3E828BEBF3849@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <SJ0PR10MB5488BA48B489EC3F3E828BEBF3849@HIDDEN> X-Submission-Agent: TMDA/1.3.x (Ph3nix) From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN> X-Primary-Address: acm@HIDDEN X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56305 Cc: martin rudalics <rudalics@HIDDEN>, "56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>, acm@HIDDEN, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, "monnier@HIDDEN" <monnier@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hello, Drew. [ Top-posting, because the ideas in your post are a bit spread out. ] I rather agree with most of what you've said here. In fact in the later posts here, between Martin and me, we've lamented the fact that the focus gets switched frivolously between frames. I've proposed cleaning things up such that select-frame and select-window would NOT switch the focus under any circumstances (as is documented in the Elisp manual). Perhaps if/when we do implement such a clean-up, you could come on board as one of the main customers, with test cases and what-not. Even then, there are times when the focus _must_ be set, for example when the frame previously focused gets deleted. The specific problem with yes-or-no-p in this bug was that the focus did NOT end up on the minibuffer frame, and this was intolerable for users. (At least, it was intolerable for Martin R.) I analysed the cause, and found some code redirecting the focus frivolously, going back to 1992. I have removed this from master, which appears to solve the bug, at least more or less. We still have problems getting a fix suitable (i.e. non-dangerous) for the 28.2 pretest, and this is still under discussion. However this bug is purely about where the focus goes when yes-or-no-p is invoked, namely the minibuffer frame. There is absolutely no intention of stopping users moving the focus around while the MB is active. -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany). On Sun, Jul 10, 2022 at 16:13:03 +0000, Drew Adams wrote: > > I think that might be over-stating things. > > Most of the time, users are just going to be > > typing "yes" or "no" here. > [Big caveat: I'm not following this thread.] > FTR/FWIW - > I expect that there's lots in here that I don't > agree with. > But there's also lots that's happened over the > last few releases that I don't agree with, wrt > Emacs grabbing or changing the focus (frame) > from what my code or user actions have decided. > I tend to think that such changes have been > essentially gratuitous (unconsciously so), even > if someone thought they were called for to fix > this or that reported problem. Fixing one user > problem can easily mess up other things. And > fiddling with frame focus is a particularly > sensitive kind of fiddling - including because > different platforms can do things differently. > ____ > I'll just say this wrt `yes-or-no-p' - at > least wrt how it _used_ to behave. > `yes-or-no-p' is just a function that reads > minibuffer input. As far as that reading's > concerned, it's "modal" in this sense _only_: > you can't end the reading of minibuffer input > without hitting `C-g' or `C-]' or similar, or > else entering `yes' or `no'. That's it - > nothing more modal than that. > There's _nothing_ that prevents a user (and > code invoked by the user hitting a key etc.) > from changing the focus to another window or > frame, and carrying out any number of actions > there. Even multiple frames, successively. > (Not to mention recursive minibuffers.) > There should be _ZERO_ expectation by Emacs > that focus should remain with the minibuffer > during `yes-or-no-p', any more than during > any other minibuffer interaction. > [`y-or-n-p' _has_ been thoroughly modal in > the past. It expressly did _not_ use the > minibuffer. But now it reads input from > the minibuffer...] > Users and code need to be in control, able > to change focus away from the minibuffer > and back to it. Emacs really shouldn't get > in the way. > Once Someone(TM) gets the idea that focus > needs to be kept in the minibuffer, we're > headed down the road to knee-capping code > and user - crippling the minibuffer. > And that, no doubt from good intentions. > Good intentions, but maybe some ignorance > of minibuffer possibilities. > The minibuffer is just a buffer - there's > _NO_ prescribed, ineluctable, "consistent", > simple behavior that can be counted on. > And there should be none. That's a GOOD > THING. > At least that was the case before any > sanitizing mission started blasting away. > More and more, it seems, if you write code > that takes advantage of how Emacs behaves > you'll lose, because Someone will climb > under the pavement and make a fundamental > change that "fixes" some perceived problem, > upsetting the apple cart above. > ____ > Here's the general problem I see wrt someone > trying to "regularize", make "consistent", > "simplify" - or whatever - minibuffer > interaction, including focus: > You'll undoubtedly screw things up by making > simplistic assumptions - either about user > or programmatic behavior or about state at > some point. Sorry to say that (really), but > that's my conclusion. I know that people > mean well, but that's what happens, IMO. > Why do I say that? Because I think that's > what's happened, to break my code. > Starting with Emacs 26 (I think Stefan has > pointed to this) - and definitely with Emacs > 27, Emacs has apparently tried to get too > smart about such focus things - making more > assumptions about what users and code will > or should do. > The result: _Emacs changes the focus when > it shouldn't_. > I can't be more precise than that. I've > given up. I don't have the time to chase > it. I use only Emacs 26 and earlier now. > My code, including as a result of user > actions, _explicitly_ uses things such as > `select-frame-set-input-focus'. IOW, my > code, and users, control the UI, including > focus. > Alas, that careful control has been broken > by Emacs. No doubt Someone thought he was > doing Emacs and its users a favor "cleaning" > things up and making things more "consistent". > Nothing but good intentions, no doubt. No > carelessness, I assume. > Instead of giving code & users _more_ control, > to handle frame focus as they see fit, Emacs > has itself apparently tried to take control. > Too smart for its own britches. > The fault is in accidental hubris that can > creep in by not appreciating that Emacs > allows for umpteen _zillion_ different > states and interactions. > It's all too easy to think that every user, > use, use case, and setup (configuration), > and all Emacs code, are more or less similar > to your own use, setup, code etc. > Someone makes a "consistency/cleanup" change, > tries it out with a few (even many) setups, > and considers it a job well done. Shiny. > Maybe someone else reports, in vague terms, > that Emacs now breaks things. Without a > clear, simple recipe to show that, Emacs > just goes ahead with the new "improvement". > And on it goes. > What was stable for many years becomes > something different, less flexible, etc. > The minibuffer, in particular, is just a > buffer. And it can be in its own frame. > Users and code can switch focus to & from > that frame, including during minibuffer > interaction. > And other frames (e.g. a dedicated > *Completions* frame) can have their focus > redirected to the minibuffer frame. And > such redirection doesn't prevent code or > users from switching the focus to such a > frame, and back again. > In short, it should be possible to do > pretty much _anything_ while the > minibuffer is active. > And that - especially - includes changing > the input focus among different frames.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
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Sun, 10 Jul 2022 16:13:03 +0000 From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> To: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN>, martin rudalics <rudalics@HIDDEN> Subject: RE: [External] : bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame Thread-Topic: [External] : bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame Thread-Index: AQHYlFEg9EfqKmuLnUWv2Ib3TWRD3a13rv5A Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2022 16:13:03 +0000 Message-ID: <SJ0PR10MB5488BA48B489EC3F3E828BEBF3849@HIDDEN> References: <YsXAqHnCkG45OuO5@ACM> <83zghm5evt.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsXRYxGddhK9uMN1@ACM> <5d86d890-9a2e-e4d6-13fb-da03285ea003@HIDDEN> <YsajbHnSgbScvguW@ACM> <c7a72562-1993-196e-d1a7-64ef70e4c775@HIDDEN> <YsgNC6meyQ7XHAkp@ACM> <dbd87661-92fc-d961-e82a-574116ffa03d@HIDDEN> <Ysle/8OJvZc3yOxf@ACM> <cc7ce72b-9c68-6301-1308-fb1ed7199c54@HIDDEN> <Ysq5Wlk17NXvGcDJ@ACM> In-Reply-To: <Ysq5Wlk17NXvGcDJ@ACM> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: dbdd06ae-848e-4911-8c0e-08da628f1144 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: PH0PR10MB5436:EE_ x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: dbdd06ae-848e-4911-8c0e-08da628f1144 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 10 Jul 2022 16:13:03.5428 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: HbGpKqHfBT5K+oMs1p/ErsHgM8CUAYPRlMQKPz3oSezsUXsNYo+NtTSCRvDLzJMGGFUJEdP/q6s/RBzbctldBw== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: PH0PR10MB5436 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.517, 18.0.883 definitions=2022-07-10_16:2022-07-08, 2022-07-10 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 phishscore=0 malwarescore=0 spamscore=0 adultscore=0 suspectscore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 mlxscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2206140000 definitions=main-2207100073 X-Proofpoint-GUID: 1TbUtCs58bVv2Bar7LMXSwXoTyB7on9w X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: 1TbUtCs58bVv2Bar7LMXSwXoTyB7on9w X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56305 Cc: "56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, "monnier@HIDDEN" <monnier@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > I think that might be over-stating things. > Most of the time, users are just going to be > typing "yes" or "no" here. [Big caveat: I'm not following this thread.] FTR/FWIW - I expect that there's lots in here that I don't agree with. But there's also lots that's happened over the last few releases that I don't agree with, wrt Emacs grabbing or changing the focus (frame) from what my code or user actions have decided. I tend to think that such changes have been essentially gratuitous (unconsciously so), even if someone thought they were called for to fix this or that reported problem. Fixing one user problem can easily mess up other things. And fiddling with frame focus is a particularly sensitive kind of fiddling - including because different platforms can do things differently. ____ I'll just say this wrt `yes-or-no-p' - at least wrt how it _used_ to behave. `yes-or-no-p' is just a function that reads minibuffer input. As far as that reading's concerned, it's "modal" in this sense _only_: you can't end the reading of minibuffer input without hitting `C-g' or `C-]' or similar, or else entering `yes' or `no'. That's it - nothing more modal than that. There's _nothing_ that prevents a user (and code invoked by the user hitting a key etc.) from changing the focus to another window or frame, and carrying out any number of actions there. Even multiple frames, successively. (Not to mention recursive minibuffers.) There should be _ZERO_ expectation by Emacs that focus should remain with the minibuffer during `yes-or-no-p', any more than during any other minibuffer interaction. [`y-or-n-p' _has_ been thoroughly modal in the past. It expressly did _not_ use the minibuffer. But now it reads input from the minibuffer...] Users and code need to be in control, able to change focus away from the minibuffer and back to it. Emacs really shouldn't get in the way. Once Someone(TM) gets the idea that focus needs to be kept in the minibuffer, we're headed down the road to knee-capping code and user - crippling the minibuffer. And that, no doubt from good intentions. Good intentions, but maybe some ignorance of minibuffer possibilities. The minibuffer is just a buffer - there's _NO_ prescribed, ineluctable, "consistent", simple behavior that can be counted on. And there should be none. That's a GOOD THING. At least that was the case before any sanitizing mission started blasting away. More and more, it seems, if you write code that takes advantage of how Emacs behaves you'll lose, because Someone will climb under the pavement and make a fundamental change that "fixes" some perceived problem, upsetting the apple cart above. ____ Here's the general problem I see wrt someone trying to "regularize", make "consistent", "simplify" - or whatever - minibuffer interaction, including focus: You'll undoubtedly screw things up by making simplistic assumptions - either about user or programmatic behavior or about state at some point. Sorry to say that (really), but that's my conclusion. I know that people mean well, but that's what happens, IMO. Why do I say that? Because I think that's what's happened, to break my code. Starting with Emacs 26 (I think Stefan has pointed to this) - and definitely with Emacs 27, Emacs has apparently tried to get too smart about such focus things - making more assumptions about what users and code will or should do. The result: _Emacs changes the focus when it shouldn't_. I can't be more precise than that. I've given up. I don't have the time to chase it. I use only Emacs 26 and earlier now. My code, including as a result of user actions, _explicitly_ uses things such as `select-frame-set-input-focus'. IOW, my code, and users, control the UI, including focus. Alas, that careful control has been broken by Emacs. No doubt Someone thought he was doing Emacs and its users a favor "cleaning" things up and making things more "consistent". Nothing but good intentions, no doubt. No carelessness, I assume. Instead of giving code & users _more_ control, to handle frame focus as they see fit, Emacs has itself apparently tried to take control. Too smart for its own britches. The fault is in accidental hubris that can creep in by not appreciating that Emacs allows for umpteen _zillion_ different states and interactions. It's all too easy to think that every user, use, use case, and setup (configuration), and all Emacs code, are more or less similar to your own use, setup, code etc. Someone makes a "consistency/cleanup" change, tries it out with a few (even many) setups, and considers it a job well done. Shiny. Maybe someone else reports, in vague terms, that Emacs now breaks things. Without a clear, simple recipe to show that, Emacs just goes ahead with the new "improvement". And on it goes. What was stable for many years becomes something different, less flexible, etc. The minibuffer, in particular, is just a buffer. And it can be in its own frame. Users and code can switch focus to & from that frame, including during minibuffer interaction. And other frames (e.g. a dedicated *Completions* frame) can have their focus redirected to the minibuffer frame. And such redirection doesn't prevent code or users from switching the focus to such a frame, and back again. In short, it should be possible to do pretty much _anything_ while the minibuffer is active. And that - especially - includes changing the input focus among different frames.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 56305) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Jul 2022 13:01:34 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jul 10 09:01:33 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36438 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1oAWZ3-0007UX-KM for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2022 09:01:33 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:33606) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1oAWZ1-0007UL-H0 for 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2022 09:01:32 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:36428) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1oAWYv-00083G-3R; Sun, 10 Jul 2022 09:01:25 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=IG8SKX8DvaOpcL/cVYginuBW15i+dR6ZQfUrJWetD0g=; b=lqZf7Iry/+NQ XYdBLDmi3mOCMBvFjZGZVzdqpkndwCT3gEcAYRYIG03TBnXON0G6sj6C+oZiW7Rt8IoO4RibwQYXI 1fK2Lu3j89/UYkYu6631eCYlWhSF8bFdj2FC8gdUOGwF302jXHFYkcWHF751M7lhVf1K/qm1gpLA+ 7zg9b4RxGmbErJE+xH4xiduDPcsGni0L4QX8Sdak94szpzu0RZOvaNCVRtn2MF7EcIA+PxBC8iBzs zcwX1zeTeJSXsKThKSX1GvbgWMwfvn4dbkYW0pOdctgMfKFx3iqlkfkFM0o61dn7lDjAW2U1MQqX4 Nt/PSfd9F0+epcZ7fLVDRQ==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=4802 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1oAWYu-0008EM-Hl; Sun, 10 Jul 2022 09:01:24 -0400 Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2022 16:01:09 +0300 Message-Id: <83h73p15re.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <YsrI8/smnK0xNzo5@ACM> (message from Alan Mackenzie on Sun, 10 Jul 2022 12:41:23 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame References: <YsXRYxGddhK9uMN1@ACM> <5d86d890-9a2e-e4d6-13fb-da03285ea003@HIDDEN> <YsajbHnSgbScvguW@ACM> <c7a72562-1993-196e-d1a7-64ef70e4c775@HIDDEN> <YsgNC6meyQ7XHAkp@ACM> <dbd87661-92fc-d961-e82a-574116ffa03d@HIDDEN> <Ysle/8OJvZc3yOxf@ACM> <cc7ce72b-9c68-6301-1308-fb1ed7199c54@HIDDEN> <Ysq5Wlk17NXvGcDJ@ACM> <83k08l1964.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsrI8/smnK0xNzo5@ACM> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56305 Cc: rudalics@HIDDEN, 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@HIDDEN, acm@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2022 12:41:23 +0000 > Cc: rudalics@HIDDEN, monnier@HIDDEN, 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, > acm@HIDDEN > From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN> > > > It is hard for me to make a decision about that patch, since it isn't > > clear what are its disadvantages. Martin seems to say that it doesn't > > work well? > > Martin's not very happy about things, but I'm not sure what can be > improved quickly. > > > So can you tell what problem it fixes .... > > In the bug scenario, after C-x C-c, the focus was not on the minibuffer > frame. Now it is. > > > .... and what, if any, problems it causes? > > I'm not really aware of any specific problems, but I think Martin might > be. I see the main problem with the patch is it hasn't been tested on > anything but GNU/Linux and X. In particular, it hasn't been tested on a > Windows machine or a Mac, at least that I'm aware of. I'll wait to hear from Martin. > > Or maybe we should wait for at least the master to have a complete > > fix, and decide then? > > You mean, postpone the next Emacs 28 pretest until we've got a better > understanding? No, leave things on the release branch as they are now until then.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 56305) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Jul 2022 12:41:33 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jul 10 08:41:33 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36421 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1oAWFh-0006tf-5F for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2022 08:41:33 -0400 Received: from colin.muc.de ([193.149.48.1]:15817 helo=mail.muc.de) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <acm@HIDDEN>) id 1oAWFe-0006tS-TY for 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2022 08:41:31 -0400 Received: (qmail 69953 invoked by uid 3782); 10 Jul 2022 12:41:24 -0000 Received: from acm.muc.de (p4fe15b15.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [79.225.91.21]) (using STARTTLS) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sun, 10 Jul 2022 14:41:23 +0200 Received: (qmail 6149 invoked by uid 1000); 10 Jul 2022 12:41:23 -0000 Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2022 12:41:23 +0000 To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame Message-ID: <YsrI8/smnK0xNzo5@ACM> References: <YsXRYxGddhK9uMN1@ACM> <5d86d890-9a2e-e4d6-13fb-da03285ea003@HIDDEN> <YsajbHnSgbScvguW@ACM> <c7a72562-1993-196e-d1a7-64ef70e4c775@HIDDEN> <YsgNC6meyQ7XHAkp@ACM> <dbd87661-92fc-d961-e82a-574116ffa03d@HIDDEN> <Ysle/8OJvZc3yOxf@ACM> <cc7ce72b-9c68-6301-1308-fb1ed7199c54@HIDDEN> <Ysq5Wlk17NXvGcDJ@ACM> <83k08l1964.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <83k08l1964.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Submission-Agent: TMDA/1.3.x (Ph3nix) From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN> X-Primary-Address: acm@HIDDEN X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56305 Cc: rudalics@HIDDEN, 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@HIDDEN, acm@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hello, Eli. On Sun, Jul 10, 2022 at 14:47:31 +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2022 11:34:50 +0000 > > Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, monnier@HIDDEN, > > 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, acm@HIDDEN > > From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN> > > Anyway, we'll have to decide soon what to do for Emacs 28.2. The > > first pretest is already out there. What we do needs to be simple > > and safe. The alternatives so far seem to be do nothing, apply the > > 53-line deletion from master (which Eli has already rejected) or > > apply my patch above (fixed to work with tty's). At the moment, I > > would favour the last of these. > It is hard for me to make a decision about that patch, since it isn't > clear what are its disadvantages. Martin seems to say that it doesn't > work well? Martin's not very happy about things, but I'm not sure what can be improved quickly. > So can you tell what problem it fixes .... In the bug scenario, after C-x C-c, the focus was not on the minibuffer frame. Now it is. > .... and what, if any, problems it causes? I'm not really aware of any specific problems, but I think Martin might be. I see the main problem with the patch is it hasn't been tested on anything but GNU/Linux and X. In particular, it hasn't been tested on a Windows machine or a Mac, at least that I'm aware of. > Or maybe we should wait for at least the master to have a complete > fix, and decide then? You mean, postpone the next Emacs 28 pretest until we've got a better understanding? -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 56305) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Jul 2022 11:47:56 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jul 10 07:47:56 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36368 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1oAVPn-0003NW-L4 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2022 07:47:55 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:50750) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1oAVPl-0003Mg-6R for 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2022 07:47:53 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:35494) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1oAVPf-0003wa-Ir; Sun, 10 Jul 2022 07:47:47 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=S2Py98/GO3A0hcvAxs9l0ZtL2xeUiFa69bAVFevWWYs=; b=RLuAfcWeuU41 dJy2ZiH4cayBXpTG8GJ5AhBVHqdrGdShW+Z+LaRRtbOk8AhgVYRXt9pIXFieutSjs8Rkyo5m3a6Ef JQHQ7C3le1GeU2PdzmpUVItbxtqikxFjQFzIG3Pa07OIcy0Ilyt/PfQXKfzSVyBzeN/l70pep+55/ ejDXrQYc9t3DYfBZgAV9suAqfP+vmOG7a9smslfXLfHU5x4gmhhE95MvBO8rCxs0tT0m+QPf700BS o6job4UpJqFj9W1tGCpk1MC7GLvM2fONvlDBXSFp/jjN+xwNpKODbOWUPA6X39mC+Fe9usWSHQX9n KExJcZ4/mvj54mP2PbWtWg==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=4197 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1oAVPf-00026t-1r; Sun, 10 Jul 2022 07:47:47 -0400 Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2022 14:47:31 +0300 Message-Id: <83k08l1964.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <Ysq5Wlk17NXvGcDJ@ACM> (message from Alan Mackenzie on Sun, 10 Jul 2022 11:34:50 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame References: <YsXAqHnCkG45OuO5@ACM> <83zghm5evt.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsXRYxGddhK9uMN1@ACM> <5d86d890-9a2e-e4d6-13fb-da03285ea003@HIDDEN> <YsajbHnSgbScvguW@ACM> <c7a72562-1993-196e-d1a7-64ef70e4c775@HIDDEN> <YsgNC6meyQ7XHAkp@ACM> <dbd87661-92fc-d961-e82a-574116ffa03d@HIDDEN> <Ysle/8OJvZc3yOxf@ACM> <cc7ce72b-9c68-6301-1308-fb1ed7199c54@HIDDEN> <Ysq5Wlk17NXvGcDJ@ACM> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56305 Cc: rudalics@HIDDEN, 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@HIDDEN, acm@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2022 11:34:50 +0000 > Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, monnier@HIDDEN, > 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, acm@HIDDEN > From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN> > > Anyway, we'll have to decide soon what to do for Emacs 28.2. The first > pretest is already out there. What we do needs to be simple and safe. > The alternatives so far seem to be do nothing, apply the 53-line > deletion from master (which Eli has already rejected) or apply my patch > above (fixed to work with tty's). At the moment, I would favour the > last of these. It is hard for me to make a decision about that patch, since it isn't clear what are its disadvantages. Martin seems to say that it doesn't work well? So can you tell what problem it fixes and what, if any, problems it causes? Or maybe we should wait for at least the master to have a complete fix, and decide then?
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 56305) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Jul 2022 11:35:00 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jul 10 07:35:00 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36363 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1oAVDI-00033O-7u for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2022 07:35:00 -0400 Received: from colin.muc.de ([193.149.48.1]:14115 helo=mail.muc.de) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <acm@HIDDEN>) id 1oAVDF-00033B-QH for 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2022 07:34:58 -0400 Received: (qmail 21506 invoked by uid 3782); 10 Jul 2022 11:34:51 -0000 Received: from acm.muc.de (p4fe15b15.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [79.225.91.21]) (using STARTTLS) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sun, 10 Jul 2022 13:34:51 +0200 Received: (qmail 5953 invoked by uid 1000); 10 Jul 2022 11:34:50 -0000 Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2022 11:34:50 +0000 To: martin rudalics <rudalics@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame Message-ID: <Ysq5Wlk17NXvGcDJ@ACM> References: <YsXAqHnCkG45OuO5@ACM> <83zghm5evt.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsXRYxGddhK9uMN1@ACM> <5d86d890-9a2e-e4d6-13fb-da03285ea003@HIDDEN> <YsajbHnSgbScvguW@ACM> <c7a72562-1993-196e-d1a7-64ef70e4c775@HIDDEN> <YsgNC6meyQ7XHAkp@ACM> <dbd87661-92fc-d961-e82a-574116ffa03d@HIDDEN> <Ysle/8OJvZc3yOxf@ACM> <cc7ce72b-9c68-6301-1308-fb1ed7199c54@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <cc7ce72b-9c68-6301-1308-fb1ed7199c54@HIDDEN> X-Submission-Agent: TMDA/1.3.x (Ph3nix) From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN> X-Primary-Address: acm@HIDDEN X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56305 Cc: 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, monnier@HIDDEN, acm@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hello, Martin. On Sun, Jul 10, 2022 at 10:07:28 +0200, martin rudalics wrote: > > diff --git a/src/minibuf.c b/src/minibuf.c > > index 0fc7f2caa1..0d80b2ec90 100644 > > --- a/src/minibuf.c > > +++ b/src/minibuf.c > > @@ -896,6 +896,16 @@ read_minibuf (Lisp_Object map, Lisp_Object initial, Lisp_Object prompt, > > /* Don't allow the user to undo past this point. */ > > bset_undo_list (current_buffer, Qnil); > > + /* If some Emacs frame currently has the window-system focus, give > > + it to the minibuffer frame. This is sometimes needed for > > + minibuffer-only frames. Don't give that frame the focus if it's > > + already got it, since this might cause the frame to be wrongly > > + raised. */ > > + if (FRAME_DISPLAY_INFO (XFRAME (mini_frame))->x_focus_frame > > + && (FRAME_DISPLAY_INFO (XFRAME (mini_frame))->x_focus_frame > > + != XFRAME (mini_frame))) > > + Fx_focus_frame (mini_frame, Qt); > > + > > recursive_edit_1 (); > > /* If cursor is on the minibuffer line, > > How do you react to this suggestion? Anyhow, I just tried it on a Linux > > tty, and it segfaults. ;-( So it clearly needs some refinement. > This doesn't improve anything here. On Debian I'm using a setup which > is described under "Focus Settings" here > https://docs.xfce.org/xfce/xfwm4/4.12/preferences Thanks! I use xfce, too. But I haven't changed anything here away from its default. I run Emacs on a tty anyway. > In particular, I (a) Automatically raise windows when they receive focus > and I use a (b) Delay before raising focused window. (a) is for me > indispensable to bring a window to foreground with the mouse (mainly due > to a habit developed while working under Windows where clicking into a > lowered frame to raise it inevitably moved point in the Emacs window > clicked at). (b) is indispensable to avoid that some arbitrary window > gets raised when moving the mouse over it while trying to reach some > specific window (this is one case mutter handles decidedly better than > xfwm). If anybody can suggest a better setup for emulating what Emacs > calls 'mouse-autoselect-window' on the display level, I'll be all ears. > Now note that when in my scenario I type C-x C-c, the minibuffer frame > is selected and has focus. But not raised, though? Surely the MB frame being selected and having focus is what we want, so that we can type "yes" or "no" next. > Then apparently the > Fselect_window (old_window, Qt) > call in unwind_format_mode_line (the one you mentioned earlier in this > thread) kicks in causing the window manager to move focus to the normal > frame. (See below.) > Finally, your patch will ask the window manager to focus the > minibuffer frame again and raise it. > I used the term "apparently" because there are too many do_switch_frame > calls triggered by redisplay in order to attribute them orderly to their > precise origin. And tracing focus transitions with GDB is next to > impossible because you continuously have to shift focus between GDB and > the debugged application. Try running GDB in an Emacs on a Linux tty. That's what I do anyway. I seem to remember watching the focus, last time I did this, a day or two ago. Anyway, we'll have to decide soon what to do for Emacs 28.2. The first pretest is already out there. What we do needs to be simple and safe. The alternatives so far seem to be do nothing, apply the 53-line deletion from master (which Eli has already rejected) or apply my patch above (fixed to work with tty's). At the moment, I would favour the last of these. > Nota bene: In each redisplay cycle, Emacs may ask the window manager at > least twice for each of its frames to refocus it in order to format that > frame's title. Doesn't a window manager have better things to do than > cater for how applications try to format their internal data? Doesn't > such an interaction strike anyone as provocative at least? select-window and select-frame should NOT move the focus. select-frame is even documented (in the Elisp manual) not to do this. That documentation is not true for Emacs 28.x, but may now have become true in master since I removed those 53 lines from do_switch_frame, but I'm not sure. A worthwhile project would be rigourously to determine where the focus gets changed as a side effect of other things and to remove such side effects. Then we could add code to move the focus when we actually want to. > > I suggested using s-f-s-input-focus at one time, but you pointed out > > that this would raise the frame, which isn't wanted. > s-f-s-input-focus would add insult to injury - guaranteeing an unwanted > raise even if 'x-focus-frame' alone would not raise it. > > But surely every window manager will give the minibuffer frame the > > focus, precisely what we need here? > I wouldn't even bet on that. Certainly not with newer generations of > window managers. A WM may concede input focus upon an application's > request for special windows like dialog boxes only. We're just lucky if > it allows to give focus to some "normal" window too. You're implying that C-x 5 o might not work with such WMs. That would not be good. > > What could happen with a strange WM > > that could be disturbing? > Isn't that the wrong question? Here we talk about a strange application > that within milliseconds asks the WM to move focus away from one of its > windows and then move it back to the original window in order to format > its internal data. As I said, I don't think select-frame/window should move the focus. Maybe somebody could fix this for Emacs 29. > >> The change to master fixes the bug here. > > Thanks! > Unfortunately, it breaks C-x o. Try with my scenario but instead of > answering the 'yes-or-no-p' question type C-x o. With Emacs 28.1 this > selects the window on top of the normal frame. With current master it > does nothing. I don't think that's true. It selects the other window on the normal frame (which is the selected frame), but retains the focus in the minibuffer frame (the focus being redirected from the normal frame). > It doesn't even tell me that there is no other window to select. So > this cure is certainly worse than the disease. I think that might be over-stating things. Most of the time, users are just going to be typing "yes" or "no" here. > martin -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 56305) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Jul 2022 08:07:45 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jul 10 04:07:45 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36215 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1oARyi-0001et-OO for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2022 04:07:45 -0400 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.19]:45543) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <rudalics@HIDDEN>) id 1oARyg-0001eg-98 for 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2022 04:07:42 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1657440450; bh=xUE7KiAyU07SR6+61dNLrpmu4NfzlMrtaNC7WCg+0bY=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Date:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:In-Reply-To; b=Sm62TCtYPe1W/X9/aMUDPv1pe3PJNP472IVsCXZMBfI6LFN6nTexMJale11+LwzDV Aqph4mZ776PTL/84WNxKf9u8aTF0k1DjXYxqjuF+sX25KEVIxJ2ARXCNJ+vm0hXeOL HolAR3mm4wIgJBISgA0p+tjXwsuQr8T4ShNQ4O4M= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [192.168.1.102] ([213.142.97.1]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx004 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MUGi9-1o1Twf2Tb9-00RIcI; Sun, 10 Jul 2022 10:07:30 +0200 Message-ID: <cc7ce72b-9c68-6301-1308-fb1ed7199c54@HIDDEN> Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2022 10:07:28 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame Content-Language: en-US To: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN> References: <YsRfxFkXRqzlFLgG@ACM> <83zghn7ckd.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsXAqHnCkG45OuO5@ACM> <83zghm5evt.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsXRYxGddhK9uMN1@ACM> <5d86d890-9a2e-e4d6-13fb-da03285ea003@HIDDEN> <YsajbHnSgbScvguW@ACM> <c7a72562-1993-196e-d1a7-64ef70e4c775@HIDDEN> <YsgNC6meyQ7XHAkp@ACM> <dbd87661-92fc-d961-e82a-574116ffa03d@HIDDEN> <Ysle/8OJvZc3yOxf@ACM> From: martin rudalics <rudalics@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <Ysle/8OJvZc3yOxf@ACM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:oD2N4eEJi0/XrgbcvN8ZLCv9hNQAnJNGItypYDqNjf1RSeQbvyl +//4d0op1uDeQpk2QIxdxm5YfD5Vx7nsJ3YGHjuYtAa7kA3OZqgLOe3yAnpxTknfYs7zbar Po4pDOQ6M76223v5GrzWse2o76wSOCUYlvFigu6VVTUmw0QXNUnR7gab0HjBJRisvo61zz1 kE5FdDkkCdUGgEAli7mxw== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:C+HWFpOgsyA=:U+AlKm8ku695vOM71evEXa HD7qajsnVyGajAqDsmM0DBblNAzoBW50QEUN2WWwLON9U/7QlREWAGibtb8D8iF1mS/70BZK1 WjtQSYIv2k4R4NBH5Egwq3/mohTxNRV1MlV0Y+aCXs6CiqAbFqYogUzX+xp4J3e1pAgqb4YYr tMkYC9nHSsjY6MBE61xGap1/+6fOyJA/KZKTdPIahgnObLwbkSRK1bebnQ7n+4IluoFCLTufi sVHL5RnFa8ia4BFxCnlRXWesVtx5teFAMJ1sOxvyh5/V2OPJpoNh0kV/8P0yLoRr3UrwUCfeB QGtFaQZWj8nKrjx3QTJSTIdYFd+T7Rp56Izdhyq1MfhT7dMX9B0ac82DO6+4cpH4IAqilu/dY mNKP/hVz3IZFxrX36KnALQHlXKSBn10KgUQzinJZ1eusrC+AJOgJzR5cahEyjCafrBicxBmRF mLwnfWVQSDO6Q1U/T+ODmFgvT1TZX19r1qEKqkrPrgz3dZ1gFTTbe5ZU7JYHaVdOMvrPWRiy0 d7QB+teDkLY6ko1xJNnL+jjJEP7k30ybFQ0M1ewqXZLvku3QYZkmcZSkU4BdQ6ZKHd9r7mgYa RUVou9w8BJpYXA8iaiQxhQpyCcOt2AJPvBTaDEpMzgfyBC/heYaMnTUxdYgKkttyZoIsKNtqD lXwmNi63GINUrU2CA6+H+u54hzhHp+6oYueyoXtNbIVnB/RbQUqH4hxm7vwL+WAo+cTqY2wu5 R2gLLYBtA1lkH8USLWVrR051ZcAAx/U79+3R48ypAf/wkY6TFegbBkOeHDioDnbYMK7fN159w uK8qo/73McG7AqODUkb76f5mJ5GVFjZ9JvSe1Bmk8yvjQV4WCLy33UdxshodKvt5iJ2Cq9N4p P9+wHj8zvldzdDrgK54jdrfWUo8eSe3dcNLbFznxR/uXasj2EZKEhDzR82IBf7H06VbhOm3Xm imj3bQ3h+SDxJzvkVkKB/e1Fgx/iauF+eaEcC2Z04Oj4WTMiJDkY5P8+CN+pC0wVtMzuYqCab 0dLH5VT8/m2hhM67GQC3qQPQgNc3XXd0JQAdN3jx0lschwbYNdbPGFcK9zED7hlJVLiUx32AN XH5z1gaBz9ccAvNq2AtV5IjMoauehR8szFxIbJl2geoqUL+3Nu1dc40WQ== X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56305 Cc: 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, monnier@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > diff --git a/src/minibuf.c b/src/minibuf.c > index 0fc7f2caa1..0d80b2ec90 100644 > --- a/src/minibuf.c > +++ b/src/minibuf.c > @@ -896,6 +896,16 @@ read_minibuf (Lisp_Object map, Lisp_Object initial, Lisp_Object prompt, > /* Don't allow the user to undo past this point. */ > bset_undo_list (current_buffer, Qnil); > > + /* If some Emacs frame currently has the window-system focus, give > + it to the minibuffer frame. This is sometimes needed for > + minibuffer-only frames. Don't give that frame the focus if it's > + already got it, since this might cause the frame to be wrongly > + raised. */ > + if (FRAME_DISPLAY_INFO (XFRAME (mini_frame))->x_focus_frame > + && (FRAME_DISPLAY_INFO (XFRAME (mini_frame))->x_focus_frame > + != XFRAME (mini_frame))) > + Fx_focus_frame (mini_frame, Qt); > + > recursive_edit_1 (); > > /* If cursor is on the minibuffer line, > > How do you react to this suggestion? Anyhow, I just tried it on a Linux > tty, and it segfaults. ;-( So it clearly needs some refinement. This doesn't improve anything here. On Debian I'm using a setup which is described under "Focus Settings" here https://docs.xfce.org/xfce/xfwm4/4.12/preferences In particular, I (a) Automatically raise windows when they receive focus and I use a (b) Delay before raising focused window. (a) is for me indispensable to bring a window to foreground with the mouse (mainly due to a habit developed while working under Windows where clicking into a lowered frame to raise it inevitably moved point in the Emacs window clicked at). (b) is indispensable to avoid that some arbitrary window gets raised when moving the mouse over it while trying to reach some specific window (this is one case mutter handles decidedly better than xfwm). If anybody can suggest a better setup for emulating what Emacs calls 'mouse-autoselect-window' on the display level, I'll be all ears. Now note that when in my scenario I type C-x C-c, the minibuffer frame is selected and has focus. Then apparently the Fselect_window (old_window, Qt) call in unwind_format_mode_line (the one you mentioned earlier in this thread) kicks in causing the window manager to move focus to the normal frame. Finally, your patch will ask the window manager to focus the minibuffer frame again and raise it. I used the term "apparently" because there are too many do_switch_frame calls triggered by redisplay in order to attribute them orderly to their precise origin. And tracing focus transitions with GDB is next to impossible because you continuously have to shift focus between GDB and the debugged application. Nota bene: In each redisplay cycle, Emacs may ask the window manager at least twice for each of its frames to refocus it in order to format that frame's title. Doesn't a window manager have better things to do than cater for how applications try to format their internal data? Doesn't such an interaction strike anyone as provocative at least? > I suggested using s-f-s-input-focus at one time, but you pointed out > that this would raise the frame, which isn't wanted. s-f-s-input-focus would add insult to injury - guaranteeing an unwanted raise even if 'x-focus-frame' alone would not raise it. > But surely every window manager will give the minibuffer frame the > focus, precisely what we need here? I wouldn't even bet on that. Certainly not with newer generations of window managers. A WM may concede input focus upon an application's request for special windows like dialog boxes only. We're just lucky if it allows to give focus to some "normal" window too. > What could happen with a strange WM > that could be disturbing? Isn't that the wrong question? Here we talk about a strange application that within milliseconds asks the WM to move focus away from one of its windows and then move it back to the original window in order to format its internal data. >> The change to master fixes the bug here. > > Thanks! Unfortunately, it breaks C-x o. Try with my scenario but instead of answering the 'yes-or-no-p' question type C-x o. With Emacs 28.1 this selects the window on top of the normal frame. With current master it does nothing. It doesn't even tell me that there is no other window to select. So this cure is certainly worse than the disease. martin
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 56305) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Jul 2022 10:57:14 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 09 06:57:14 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33907 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1oA89B-0001kn-ME for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 09 Jul 2022 06:57:13 -0400 Received: from colin.muc.de ([193.149.48.1]:30523 helo=mail.muc.de) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <acm@HIDDEN>) id 1oA899-0001kW-Cr for 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 09 Jul 2022 06:57:11 -0400 Received: (qmail 4263 invoked by uid 3782); 9 Jul 2022 10:57:04 -0000 Received: from acm.muc.de (p4fe15f65.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [79.225.95.101]) (using STARTTLS) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sat, 09 Jul 2022 12:57:04 +0200 Received: (qmail 5914 invoked by uid 1000); 9 Jul 2022 10:57:03 -0000 Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2022 10:57:03 +0000 To: martin rudalics <rudalics@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame Message-ID: <Ysle/8OJvZc3yOxf@ACM> References: <YsRfxFkXRqzlFLgG@ACM> <83zghn7ckd.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsXAqHnCkG45OuO5@ACM> <83zghm5evt.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsXRYxGddhK9uMN1@ACM> <5d86d890-9a2e-e4d6-13fb-da03285ea003@HIDDEN> <YsajbHnSgbScvguW@ACM> <c7a72562-1993-196e-d1a7-64ef70e4c775@HIDDEN> <YsgNC6meyQ7XHAkp@ACM> <dbd87661-92fc-d961-e82a-574116ffa03d@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <dbd87661-92fc-d961-e82a-574116ffa03d@HIDDEN> X-Submission-Agent: TMDA/1.3.x (Ph3nix) From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN> X-Primary-Address: acm@HIDDEN X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56305 Cc: 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, monnier@HIDDEN, acm@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hello, Martin. On Sat, Jul 09, 2022 at 10:35:50 +0200, martin rudalics wrote: > >> It should not deliberately raise a frame that already has focus. > > OK. We could add an extra check for the frame already having the focus. > > Is there anything else suboptimal about that proposed fix to emacs-28? > If by "extra check" you mean > diff --git a/src/minibuf.c b/src/minibuf.c > index 0fc7f2caa1..71fd62cede 100644 > --- a/src/minibuf.c > +++ b/src/minibuf.c > @@ -896,6 +896,12 @@ read_minibuf (Lisp_Object map, Lisp_Object initial, Lisp_Object prompt, > /* Don't allow the user to undo past this point. */ > bset_undo_list (current_buffer, Qnil); > + /* If some Emacs frame currently has the window-system focus, give > + it to the minibuffer frame. This is sometimes needed for > + minibuffer-only frames. */ > + if (FRAME_DISPLAY_INFO (XFRAME (mini_frame))->x_focus_frame) > + Fx_focus_frame (mini_frame, Qt); > + > recursive_edit_1 (); > /* If cursor is on the minibuffer line, No, that's not quite what I meant. > then it does not improve anything here - the minibuffer frame is first > lowered and then raised above the normal frame. I do not understand the > idea here anyway. Why give focus to a frame that already has focus? > Why does the comment say "some Emacs frame" while the code checks only > the minibuffer frame? The intention was that FRAME_DISPLAY_INFO (XFRAME (mini_frame)) should get the display structure which contains mini_frame, and that ->x_focus_frame should either be the Emacs frame which has the focus, or null if some other program currently has the focus. Only if an Emacs frame currently has the focus should we refocus onto the minibuffer frame. Adding the check whether the minibuffer frame already has the focus, which I've tried, gives this: diff --git a/src/minibuf.c b/src/minibuf.c index 0fc7f2caa1..0d80b2ec90 100644 --- a/src/minibuf.c +++ b/src/minibuf.c @@ -896,6 +896,16 @@ read_minibuf (Lisp_Object map, Lisp_Object initial, Lisp_Object prompt, /* Don't allow the user to undo past this point. */ bset_undo_list (current_buffer, Qnil); + /* If some Emacs frame currently has the window-system focus, give + it to the minibuffer frame. This is sometimes needed for + minibuffer-only frames. Don't give that frame the focus if it's + already got it, since this might cause the frame to be wrongly + raised. */ + if (FRAME_DISPLAY_INFO (XFRAME (mini_frame))->x_focus_frame + && (FRAME_DISPLAY_INFO (XFRAME (mini_frame))->x_focus_frame + != XFRAME (mini_frame))) + Fx_focus_frame (mini_frame, Qt); + recursive_edit_1 (); /* If cursor is on the minibuffer line, How do you react to this suggestion? Anyhow, I just tried it on a Linux tty, and it segfaults. ;-( So it clearly needs some refinement. > Recalling my personal experience: I used 'x-focus-frame' in one special > case only - in 'handle-select-window' when 'focus-follows-mouse' is > non-nil. All other calls are via 'select-frame-set-input-focus' where > the intention to _also_ raise the frame is obvious. I suggested using s-f-s-input-focus at one time, but you pointed out that this would raise the frame, which isn't wanted. > I would never have called 'x-focus-frame' from C with the default > settings - every second window manager out there will handle it > differently. But surely every window manager will give the minibuffer frame the focus, precisely what we need here? What could happen with a strange WM that could be disturbing? > > In the mean time, how well does the change to master work? It attempts > > to fix the cause of (rather than just working around) bug #56305. > The change to master fixes the bug here. Thanks! > martin -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 56305) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Jul 2022 08:36:35 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 09 04:36:35 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33719 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1oA5x4-0006Nd-PO for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 09 Jul 2022 04:36:34 -0400 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.20]:39353) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <rudalics@HIDDEN>) id 1oA5x2-0006NO-LO for 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 09 Jul 2022 04:36:33 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1657355782; bh=LygP8ir0P2pQHE8MwrUbA8g36kfH3nP0OuXN+dE+4+o=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Date:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:In-Reply-To; b=MSW7wSGPg+1YPE157WkfCO507+6iTBMhb55NCX+vn9TJveKnL61C6NGpW++YKvYmJ BsprMuJxuzLVD+rFQTuUskXQZ/TbBIx1uhPzHo/QqXjNPzNayWnkaER8WsrTDbOrqR JQJs+QD0o5EW5U7n3WX3wyTS1CvVr8RY3IBYT39s= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [192.168.1.102] ([212.95.5.83]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx104 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1My36N-1nN36X0K2J-00zY3E; Sat, 09 Jul 2022 10:36:22 +0200 Message-ID: <c833f73b-ce93-68c8-1ac1-63d975d4d382@HIDDEN> Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2022 10:36:20 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame Content-Language: en-US To: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN> References: <83h73w8f7i.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsRfxFkXRqzlFLgG@ACM> <83zghn7ckd.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsXAqHnCkG45OuO5@ACM> <83zghm5evt.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsXRYxGddhK9uMN1@ACM> <5d86d890-9a2e-e4d6-13fb-da03285ea003@HIDDEN> <YsajbHnSgbScvguW@ACM> <c7a72562-1993-196e-d1a7-64ef70e4c775@HIDDEN> <YsgNC6meyQ7XHAkp@ACM> <Ysh4DpT5ieSNWiSL@ACM> From: martin rudalics <rudalics@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <Ysh4DpT5ieSNWiSL@ACM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:5s+do8mWDBj+lOygvt7E/r6nVsBUlGACQRjKiih7n9kXJIghqty s9bBruhpizc2mdf8yIQ7609l/+XmXeS2xp3nqGnvIOWVKEpYmzrYdObR/cuf/svFe3fl9zn aUiNu6o6cFSRrzlLOYVjafF8qGbgJm1+kTd8oNUb/fhxA/AIVMBZRqswTtwR4ha2C7RL4MQ hUXzUfIslvLp4G++FNosQ== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:dFQ9GKVCz6w=:mWY91RpLNkb8KH1e44Y7In i0Pi2A3z4pe+JLSMd4WCoG6QorOTN5BltaMGY4sJ4YbCLZOPBhH0FrbG7xEDz1oCiUA4ZHMSH a/1Gcsz+4DaPsGNVeY1Ga8yk/pBhJFooDgO7ay3/gcg7YVylt1yxGfIoEv0rnAo333Rx99xsv z42cvNpAn8NJ9EsOYq4BLZLq5gTLBkwsTf1eK4FXmqZWIQnYtW+exFitAyOAKTjg0DNwDgyAb CVhUhyZa3H4cldqBDoFUNil6q15G9TlSr50YgAz4XyluHrfweDmyI/732Vmy4NxuM2h9MgmLb 7ZPKv5TxVwhVKZzx7+BpVY9kbxf402blo4Ni51QBpW4EmIAX0IwlnD3q6Ny15alK6qkPgeYIU 05U5RkPt+Rv/gGiKaLQlerU+FYKLz5dkfqRZ3EgYT4KPJoHi86sjoR8m7x1Y0FRFIz4a8kV1a H+S0Uykg1qsNneGU1MIbiGl8FKqqrTVGRXU9Zm6oDf2Dg3vuJPCJ8bE3iSdQm3sJEwqiiI/97 ZvY7bjdrgcN0SJjLuzwj1GuIp8Iwd8a7ne2+lOuNvlaNz0ubN95FttMIx1Dr2LKKkXX0/tVRv 6G0ro9ULGNi/INfWICzUalNM88e3FbJrCSzPfkff3gKHOrM2Xq6eZok2r03cKLU/+GPckRfu9 73lYN2p8qoV0T5bn0TOucBQyqRmwBzCGnfm+BFhU5kKC/s3+iHUY6BkhgnnFzSoTKDG2pw8ez Uj/VZDE1BdPfYj/s0N869QUvaSxvAsItKVUPJtLeqdHILY/CQD+kd2dfkrsU0iUcZloI6MBu/ 6c7SAkt8JNDQsD4B0b3gbA+OsoUH9WqTELmdSgzyp6sEC7AE7FAlJekVeBT9St4oKNOSBkrPc YVAm4TdwQkIfKFZ75m+bA8ISVBYCpT3xJbSRr0hAc131sAkrkH3KW6IXxLxlcgbCFM7nqf7nv pAkJi+wEIIVnzMs9PdISG6iyLhcZgcJgN6iQtyxNteJOuwD1K1Lhr1tqrWjdW52gy+x6iHr4d 0jrre9PiGhzIAt/ZEF6iOw0AWmDXN/l95XYBgc/chvE4h3KW7Xb7VhecT8rWFEzAy92zoo933 6SBktiZYEbi9udpUmAkYgN6iSW4+ErShnc05N+bWaLgRaxrq2lHQBdQCQ== X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56305 Cc: 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, monnier@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) >>> It does not restore the Emacs 26 behavior. > > How, precisely, does the behaviour in my proposed patch differ from that > of Emacs 26? In all patches you proposed for the release version the difference is that with Emacs 26 the normal frame is on top of the minibuffer frame when the question is asked while with your patches the minibuffer frame obscures the normal frame. The minibuffer frame has input focus in either case. >>> If you look at the reports for Bug#8856, Bug#11566 or Bug#11939, you >>> might be able to imagine how much time I spent to get the behavior >>> right for Drew's setup back then. It's quite sobering to see my >>> efforts from that period get wasted now. > > What do you mean by "wasted"? What fails to work now which worked > immediately after your fixes for these three bugs? I neither recall what did not work nor whether I fixed anything at all nor what got fixed. I only recall that everything I tried in this area was extremely fragile and bound to fail immediately when a sequence of events was disturbed by external intervention. >> .... I'll take a look at these bug reports this evening. > > I've had a look at those bugs, now, albeit briefly. They do not contain > concise recipes for reproducing the bugs, and anyway, I don't have a > Windows system to try things out on. They are bugs where the focus > ended up on the wrong frame, and it was hypothesised that this may have > been because of Windows always giving the focus to newly created frames. Such behavior is quite normal on non-Windows systems too. martin
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Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2022 10:35:50 +0200
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Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame
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To: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN>
References: <YsNC93sM8UnXpXzP@ACM> <83h73w8f7i.fsf@HIDDEN>
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From: martin rudalics <rudalics@HIDDEN>
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>> It should not deliberately raise a frame that already has focus.
>
> OK. We could add an extra check for the frame already having the focus.
> Is there anything else suboptimal about that proposed fix to emacs-28?
If by "extra check" you mean
diff --git a/src/minibuf.c b/src/minibuf.c
index 0fc7f2caa1..71fd62cede 100644
--- a/src/minibuf.c
+++ b/src/minibuf.c
@@ -896,6 +896,12 @@ read_minibuf (Lisp_Object map, Lisp_Object initial, Lisp_Object prompt,
/* Don't allow the user to undo past this point. */
bset_undo_list (current_buffer, Qnil);
+ /* If some Emacs frame currently has the window-system focus, give
+ it to the minibuffer frame. This is sometimes needed for
+ minibuffer-only frames. */
+ if (FRAME_DISPLAY_INFO (XFRAME (mini_frame))->x_focus_frame)
+ Fx_focus_frame (mini_frame, Qt);
+
recursive_edit_1 ();
/* If cursor is on the minibuffer line,
then it does not improve anything here - the minibuffer frame is first
lowered and then raised above the normal frame. I do not understand the
idea here anyway. Why give focus to a frame that already has focus?
Why does the comment say "some Emacs frame" while the code checks only
the minibuffer frame?
Recalling my personal experience: I used 'x-focus-frame' in one special
case only - in 'handle-select-window' when 'focus-follows-mouse' is
non-nil. All other calls are via 'select-frame-set-input-focus' where
the intention to _also_ raise the frame is obvious. I would never have
called 'x-focus-frame' from C with the default settings - every second
window manager out there will handle it differently.
> In the mean time, how well does the change to master work? It attempts
> to fix the cause of (rather than just working around) bug #56305.
The change to master fixes the bug here.
martin
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame
In-Reply-To: <YsiblAsxz/XjUFLk@ACM> (Alan Mackenzie's message of "Fri, 8 Jul
2022 21:03:16 +0000")
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>> To avoid problems when we play with actual focus, what happens if we
>> play with the focus-redirection here instead?
[...]
> Whether it would make any difference to the subsequent Emacs frame
> management, I couldn't say at the moment. (My head is spinning from the
> last few days' thinking about this.)
That's why I ask you: last time I looked at the focus-redirection code
I also had trouble, but since you're already deep into it, I figured
I could save myself the trouble ;-)
Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 56305) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Jul 2022 21:45:04 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 08 17:45:04 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33330 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1o9vma-0006GW-Ld for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2022 17:45:04 -0400 Received: from heytings.org ([95.142.160.155]:58354) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <gregory@HIDDEN>) id 1o9vmY-0006G4-IZ for 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2022 17:45:03 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=heytings.org; s=20220101; t=1657316701; bh=l7tjo7WGBwPfvp2TZ+yeIsc97eal0TH9/iYxLc/RRTw=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:References:From; b=4BR/ZsISJT8H+DW6jvVDIRxU7ZXJnQfizZYMmvuYPTeQCrk/VwV9Jke1XSVQrWagq O7ClZywYAOJuJgtHcFPNW1LaSFaX6W/TMO2+WIlk8S5MRjIUcVZVWCFQ+KTmmIFPEK mUfWa38oxT4LbxAQIw93vsQUDpP1O2jDcIVuohGCvvyuAWGe/6KpQghy7DbUOncCke 8g4IlT+SqBp8eK+owFgPifUfUs+lR1jKs5eWIOaGZIOFqHN+ua3GLpfwprwJy3IRP1 I/H+zU6hKDp5sKTjtuqLQt+kN7HC0RQG4Yr3JeaGogghNZnMz7FtWQfFeiM6qgHEbo A82OdN9fK3lxA== Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2022 21:45:01 +0000 From: Gregory Heytings <gregory@HIDDEN> To: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame In-Reply-To: <YsgNC6meyQ7XHAkp@ACM> Message-ID: <beefee6e58fee872f0a7@HIDDEN> References: <YsNC93sM8UnXpXzP@ACM> <83h73w8f7i.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsRfxFkXRqzlFLgG@ACM> <83zghn7ckd.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsXAqHnCkG45OuO5@ACM> <83zghm5evt.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsXRYxGddhK9uMN1@ACM> <5d86d890-9a2e-e4d6-13fb-da03285ea003@HIDDEN> <YsajbHnSgbScvguW@ACM> <c7a72562-1993-196e-d1a7-64ef70e4c775@HIDDEN> <YsgNC6meyQ7XHAkp@ACM> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56305 Cc: martin rudalics <rudalics@HIDDEN>, 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, monnier@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > > the code was to a significant extent in a chaotic state when I made > those changes. > Chaos is in the eyes of the beholder.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 56305) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Jul 2022 21:03:25 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 08 17:03:25 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33265 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1o9v8H-0005ER-Ik for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2022 17:03:25 -0400 Received: from colin.muc.de ([193.149.48.1]:63732 helo=mail.muc.de) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <acm@HIDDEN>) id 1o9v8G-0005EE-1y for 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2022 17:03:24 -0400 Received: (qmail 47238 invoked by uid 3782); 8 Jul 2022 21:03:18 -0000 Received: from acm.muc.de (p4fe15b6e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [79.225.91.110]) (using STARTTLS) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Fri, 08 Jul 2022 23:03:17 +0200 Received: (qmail 20777 invoked by uid 1000); 8 Jul 2022 21:03:16 -0000 Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2022 21:03:16 +0000 To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame Message-ID: <YsiblAsxz/XjUFLk@ACM> References: <YsRfxFkXRqzlFLgG@ACM> <83zghn7ckd.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsXAqHnCkG45OuO5@ACM> <83zghm5evt.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsXRYxGddhK9uMN1@ACM> <878rp6qd9t.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsXdCDcIDgjq4eRj@ACM> <874jzuqcr7.fsf@HIDDEN> <YscXC/M6wiZ6TKF+@ACM> <jwva69kiwfy.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <jwva69kiwfy.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> X-Submission-Agent: TMDA/1.3.x (Ph3nix) From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN> X-Primary-Address: acm@HIDDEN X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56305 Cc: rudalics@HIDDEN, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, Andreas Schwab <schwab@HIDDEN>, 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, acm@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hello, Stefan. On Thu, Jul 07, 2022 at 14:57:02 -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote: > > diff --git a/src/minibuf.c b/src/minibuf.c > > index 0fc7f2caa1..71fd62cede 100644 > > --- a/src/minibuf.c > > +++ b/src/minibuf.c > > @@ -896,6 +896,12 @@ read_minibuf (Lisp_Object map, Lisp_Object initial, Lisp_Object prompt, > > /* Don't allow the user to undo past this point. */ > > bset_undo_list (current_buffer, Qnil); > > > > + /* If some Emacs frame currently has the window-system focus, give > > + it to the minibuffer frame. This is sometimes needed for > > + minibuffer-only frames. */ > > + if (FRAME_DISPLAY_INFO (XFRAME (mini_frame))->x_focus_frame) > > + Fx_focus_frame (mini_frame, Qt); > > + > > recursive_edit_1 (); > To avoid problems when we play with actual focus, what happens if we > play with the focus-redirection here instead? Ouch! Well, the Fx_focus_frame is there to cause the window manager's notion of focus to be set to our frame. I wouldn't think it would make much difference whether that's Emacs's "focus-frame" or its "redirected focus-frame". The same frame would get the WM-focus. Whether it would make any difference to the subsequent Emacs frame management, I couldn't say at the moment. (My head is spinning from the last few days' thinking about this.) > Stefan -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 56305) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Jul 2022 18:31:53 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 08 14:31:53 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33167 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1o9slc-0001Y5-O4 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2022 14:31:52 -0400 Received: from colin.muc.de ([193.149.48.1]:59660 helo=mail.muc.de) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <acm@HIDDEN>) id 1o9slb-0001Xs-3n for 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2022 14:31:51 -0400 Received: (qmail 48422 invoked by uid 3782); 8 Jul 2022 18:31:44 -0000 Received: from acm.muc.de (p4fe15b6e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [79.225.91.110]) (using STARTTLS) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Fri, 08 Jul 2022 20:31:43 +0200 Received: (qmail 7875 invoked by uid 1000); 8 Jul 2022 18:31:42 -0000 Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2022 18:31:42 +0000 To: martin rudalics <rudalics@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame Message-ID: <Ysh4DpT5ieSNWiSL@ACM> References: <83h73w8f7i.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsRfxFkXRqzlFLgG@ACM> <83zghn7ckd.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsXAqHnCkG45OuO5@ACM> <83zghm5evt.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsXRYxGddhK9uMN1@ACM> <5d86d890-9a2e-e4d6-13fb-da03285ea003@HIDDEN> <YsajbHnSgbScvguW@ACM> <c7a72562-1993-196e-d1a7-64ef70e4c775@HIDDEN> <YsgNC6meyQ7XHAkp@ACM> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <YsgNC6meyQ7XHAkp@ACM> X-Submission-Agent: TMDA/1.3.x (Ph3nix) From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN> X-Primary-Address: acm@HIDDEN X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56305 Cc: 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, monnier@HIDDEN, acm@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hello again, Martin. On Fri, Jul 08, 2022 at 10:55:07 +0000, Alan Mackenzie wrote: > On Fri, Jul 08, 2022 at 09:01:43 +0200, martin rudalics wrote: > > > I don't follow. If the WM does "Raise on focus", surely it will > > > raise the frame no matter how it acquires the focus. Such focus is > > > here essential for the working of the minibuffer. > > It should not deliberately raise a frame that already has focus. > OK. We could add an extra check for the frame already having the focus. > Is there anything else suboptimal about that proposed fix to emacs-28? > > > Is it not the case that acquiring the focus with Fx_focus_frame > > > would be better than not doing so? > > It does not restore the Emacs 26 behavior. How, precisely, does the behaviour in my proposed patch differ from that of Emacs 26? > > If you look at the reports for Bug#8856, Bug#11566 or Bug#11939, you > > might be able to imagine how much time I spent to get the behavior > > right for Drew's setup back then. It's quite sobering to see my > > efforts from that period get wasted now. What do you mean by "wasted"? What fails to work now which worked immediately after your fixes for these three bugs? > .... I'll take a look at these bug reports this evening. I've had a look at those bugs, now, albeit briefly. They do not contain concise recipes for reproducing the bugs, and anyway, I don't have a Windows system to try things out on. They are bugs where the focus ended up on the wrong frame, and it was hypothesised that this may have been because of Windows always giving the focus to newly created frames. [ .... ] > > martin -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 56305) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Jul 2022 11:55:29 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 08 07:55:29 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59020 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1o9ma0-0005XA-Tp for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2022 07:55:29 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:56014) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1o9mZz-0005Wn-0M for 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2022 07:55:27 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:34440) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1o9mZr-0001un-TE; Fri, 08 Jul 2022 07:55:19 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=iMl9xeLdRhMNSA7vo/QEJmvGe+1WNaIdzS77Hld430E=; b=RIoqPefPaHai VKThT+nfYr46hlAVEcL2PSpEID68t22ZtE7BpXselaeqOtHfG9vNuKgIZ4vPfKo0cX0LOZ3K+NFDx BAzsHKOqaptpyyqe0Blu5nKwnoIzD0LQawAvk8ICx5wLlBCCgZWoivm9+4phgVeEeu6jnnmiVDJw5 /1dzgA8rilqD3xt5X/d/21Ghh/eQz/D5JwET0YcO8kihjpiMQ6EzSXY8uB7ewH5pg5M7vHvwPM1cU d0yQ8SPDTNTUceuuCf1dYx2llMKMVCi7KhGzMICGMrQ45dJ1/SxpuWFu0ke6DzwVzH02rnJXt9RWN Y1xFWmF2+V61qwoPV5EhFw==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=3520 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1o9mZp-0003oJ-CK; Fri, 08 Jul 2022 07:55:19 -0400 Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2022 14:55:16 +0300 Message-Id: <83bktz4y57.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <YsgNC6meyQ7XHAkp@ACM> (message from Alan Mackenzie on Fri, 8 Jul 2022 10:55:07 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame References: <YsNC93sM8UnXpXzP@ACM> <83h73w8f7i.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsRfxFkXRqzlFLgG@ACM> <83zghn7ckd.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsXAqHnCkG45OuO5@ACM> <83zghm5evt.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsXRYxGddhK9uMN1@ACM> <5d86d890-9a2e-e4d6-13fb-da03285ea003@HIDDEN> <YsajbHnSgbScvguW@ACM> <c7a72562-1993-196e-d1a7-64ef70e4c775@HIDDEN> <YsgNC6meyQ7XHAkp@ACM> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56305 Cc: rudalics@HIDDEN, 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@HIDDEN, acm@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2022 10:55:07 +0000 > Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, monnier@HIDDEN, > 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, acm@HIDDEN > From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN> > > > It does not restore the Emacs 26 behavior. If you look at the reports > > for Bug#8856, Bug#11566 or Bug#11939, you might be able to imagine how > > much time I spent to get the behavior right for Drew's setup back then. > > It's quite sobering to see my efforts from that period get wasted now. > > If there are bugs, we fix them. You're surely not saying that the Emacs > 26 behaviour was ideal, are you? I'll take a look at these bug reports > this evening. > > Part of the problem is that this desired behaviour is not formulated > anywhere, and there don't appear to be tests in 'make check' for it. Feel free to add commentary that describes the desired behavior in specific situations. I don't think how we can have tests for this in the test suite, since you cannot test this in a batch session. We could have tests in test/manual/, though. > If my last night's commit to master is satisfactory, perhaps it might > somehow be possibly to cherry-pick it into Emacs 28.2. I doubt that, as the change is significant and we won't be able to know if it's right until some time. It would be wrong to delay Emacs 28.2 until then, IMO, since the situations in which this happens are somewhat rare and the problems aren't catastrophic.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 56305) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Jul 2022 10:55:18 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 08 06:55:17 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58969 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1o9ldl-0000Xr-KO for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2022 06:55:17 -0400 Received: from colin.muc.de ([193.149.48.1]:47062 helo=mail.muc.de) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <acm@HIDDEN>) id 1o9ldj-0000XF-2z for 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2022 06:55:17 -0400 Received: (qmail 46936 invoked by uid 3782); 8 Jul 2022 10:55:08 -0000 Received: from acm.muc.de (p4fe15b6e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [79.225.91.110]) (using STARTTLS) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Fri, 08 Jul 2022 12:55:08 +0200 Received: (qmail 4559 invoked by uid 1000); 8 Jul 2022 10:55:07 -0000 Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2022 10:55:07 +0000 To: martin rudalics <rudalics@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame Message-ID: <YsgNC6meyQ7XHAkp@ACM> References: <YsNC93sM8UnXpXzP@ACM> <83h73w8f7i.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsRfxFkXRqzlFLgG@ACM> <83zghn7ckd.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsXAqHnCkG45OuO5@ACM> <83zghm5evt.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsXRYxGddhK9uMN1@ACM> <5d86d890-9a2e-e4d6-13fb-da03285ea003@HIDDEN> <YsajbHnSgbScvguW@ACM> <c7a72562-1993-196e-d1a7-64ef70e4c775@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <c7a72562-1993-196e-d1a7-64ef70e4c775@HIDDEN> X-Submission-Agent: TMDA/1.3.x (Ph3nix) From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN> X-Primary-Address: acm@HIDDEN X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56305 Cc: 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, monnier@HIDDEN, acm@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hello, Martin. On Fri, Jul 08, 2022 at 09:01:43 +0200, martin rudalics wrote: > > I don't follow. If the WM does "Raise on focus", surely it will > > raise the frame no matter how it acquires the focus. Such focus is > > here essential for the working of the minibuffer. > It should not deliberately raise a frame that already has focus. OK. We could add an extra check for the frame already having the focus. Is there anything else suboptimal about that proposed fix to emacs-28? > > Is it not the case that acquiring the focus with Fx_focus_frame > > would be better than not doing so? > It does not restore the Emacs 26 behavior. If you look at the reports > for Bug#8856, Bug#11566 or Bug#11939, you might be able to imagine how > much time I spent to get the behavior right for Drew's setup back then. > It's quite sobering to see my efforts from that period get wasted now. If there are bugs, we fix them. You're surely not saying that the Emacs 26 behaviour was ideal, are you? I'll take a look at these bug reports this evening. Part of the problem is that this desired behaviour is not formulated anywhere, and there don't appear to be tests in 'make check' for it. In the mean time, how well does the change to master work? It attempts to fix the cause of (rather than just working around) bug #56305. > >> AFAICT the most simple approach appears to restore the Emacs 26 > >> behavior for sessions with separate minibuffer frames. > > I'm not sure how simple that would be. Have you a patch to propose? > No. I think you should trace all 'minibuffer-follows-selected-frame' > related changes and make them pertinent to the value of that variable. > Then people who need the old behavior could get it back by setting that > variable to nil. That would be an enormous amount of work, since the code was to a significant extent in a chaotic state when I made those changes. I think it is now in a less chaotic state. We surely do not wish to restore the chaos. Even If I were to do that, I doubt Eli would accept the result for Emacs 28.2, since it would be too large a change. Again, how well does my change made last night to master fix the bug? As a matter of interest, the setting of minibuffer-follows-selected-frame which gives behaviour closest to the old is non-nil, non-t (e.g. the symbole `hybrid'). > It was an unwritten rule of Emacs development that a new feature that > breaks established behavior should be (a) made optional and (b) by > default turned off. Maybe that rule doesn't apply any more but at > least (a) should be still supported. > >> What would the semantics of 'minibuffer-follows-selected-frame' be for > >> such a session anyway? > > I've a vague memory of checking this was OK at the time of the change. > > I can't remember many of the details now, though. > Then please try to remember. AFAICT 'minibuffer-follows-selected-frame' > should never impact the behavior of separate minibuffer frames. Again, bug #56305 was not caused by the m-f-s-f changes, but by some chaotic code in do_switch_frame which is hopefully now fixed (in master). I don't agree with you that reverting the minibuffer-follows-select-frame changes is a good way to fix the current bug, or any similar bugs. If my last night's commit to master is satisfactory, perhaps it might somehow be possibly to cherry-pick it into Emacs 28.2. > martin -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 56305) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Jul 2022 07:01:57 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jul 08 03:01:57 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58608 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1o9hzx-0003yw-4L for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2022 03:01:57 -0400 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.18]:34535) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <rudalics@HIDDEN>) id 1o9hzv-0003yb-7s for 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 08 Jul 2022 03:01:56 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1657263705; bh=CDchPwxQmvpzCiHW6HmmkN+uXsOYaBEFTrmgQe79qVE=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Date:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:In-Reply-To; b=k2DYKmD7rs+ScFM6KahcUJi21103i/OEQCyfpDlEvYBZ+ejlQQNbYHltq0TB43DGH AaLj/h4cS2wKKtUI10Zp2p/s6UGbgT6tV9E268wokZFBqlIb0I7GXw/PAL0/nN1YZ1 s7Ega9//GAntsTy7jhdHnYlS0QPrBPQriX1o4n3s= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [192.168.1.101] ([212.95.5.126]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx004 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MXGrE-1o5oEZ1ZnS-00YkDC; Fri, 08 Jul 2022 09:01:45 +0200 Message-ID: <c7a72562-1993-196e-d1a7-64ef70e4c775@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2022 09:01:43 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame Content-Language: en-US To: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN> References: <YsM7D2bQPapLEBir@ACM> <83iloc8yzs.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsNC93sM8UnXpXzP@ACM> <83h73w8f7i.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsRfxFkXRqzlFLgG@ACM> <83zghn7ckd.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsXAqHnCkG45OuO5@ACM> <83zghm5evt.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsXRYxGddhK9uMN1@ACM> <5d86d890-9a2e-e4d6-13fb-da03285ea003@HIDDEN> <YsajbHnSgbScvguW@ACM> From: martin rudalics <rudalics@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <YsajbHnSgbScvguW@ACM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:wxBtvZ5Jz3+x+0sZoBwYoFgA6nPmpJ6PRsvwrlL89GD+ys6NndT g6Cnnlkp4k+GCjIBsN+b6eRc83a4ztic1PqF4xVAxOOT7Uhg4PRFALACHsVKjoLI8G024uz WWf6AEUt/gElIs21OxOyf8BquSU6h7k5tIdLZkWkfVVhL4wLBSOHMTlPds/XInSs5NNCMSY 9Vlr0TvM8fz6Kz98a3lFg== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:aiLkGWPDDHU=:kP/Oa6ZZO9EUn9GJwRmTwE vrHAgxAEc4jMV3/nKaZ2T+eR6BSTGpma3iw9g9hcu8YdKGzVFv+HiA8xllP+HhKO2mQILMA7N l1eBTzC3eSCWOfTAog6G0AGKOvuwouMVuk1OmYw+usctWkboEDw30TWj9ZW5ulF94pHZ31jaS 0cyQcR5WppW6yww3G9gFKVW+plJYUM0r2Sqre5euEElr/+gfNwBsOs9NbWvQqr3qMnKiP5CGu 2GA/4nivdOTZd9hTCYWnfY0n9o/RlV/O538gFiasv8n1X9A5GNlEQgXrPVVVkYlxv3IRBX0Dg fGI1Pa3laRKVo1bl1i3wpKDbViWndS8XWbYk7debKHS3oVu+blQmlk57N80Jtmzx+TlQCCRB9 E2rEfR70m7YUNfXqml1EU3qrwfn8tW1ZbCiuCi3Evb8Eo7l9bottBgVaxmjRzyRPmulZ9+3g/ 9lrmqEr9kz6TTlSZS4uxDWHg6UvGZ37xh6OsAFF45/Mw1E8eYyhqWJCzrIo7Y/Kim3XkRvAtX WS6Bs/wdKUB/IzKjTjAiXkQYY91lED99dB8dNp+qAPi9Anqevyiq5W8C11s/QOxNEF1DERltu 3ZucrYqyw06BVZZHAxTbMLA3IeLBzdJl9EOrpBW4y9QRHyWUI2+OObX9UQ5oeRAuGzY1WaBVx IIzbxTJto4TsckrKvfiLESR3canjfEbZ4xjpwc+2oQyCUANtWp3rqX/tuMkVs7hxRwWh6EkHI e3JYODBCLNhMBDvMJTALMCmOAj5W0+idrTmHdJML2OyGwU/RkrRT7UlXZHKkw4IUPyYATee3v M5zioKxLhuYmoFIUpre3KTWWfBeOAUkdLg9c+Jj287B3R8H2pwrYLzfnhAI7ep1eVeyTzZL4D EgfXqmV1R6/WDOkUtZiJnIJzcYt43zEhYJ+uVBCoRmXqIOkbbxiB5aARw3r8rkqlpmaGB1oSO Q9KKvmeTV5RbxrSaLkZ+OoWng69XqYQXquZjZJC62adOzWIKXhpvZuBtYagGBcqF9Vt305W62 2OqFGx+wiwiCxiM3gwEg2b6zpcCVQQ/gD81X/fch1y/ppXEFXeXPdUP6T60ObHzjTioSEwXak b++CnisYYW0a/wVVPgEIIip8UPaD4wUlNE02uyapRaODjoc9n4/a/IUiQ== X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56305 Cc: 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, monnier@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > I don't follow. If the WM does "Raise on focus", surely it will raise > the frame no matter how it acquires the focus. Such focus is here > essential for the working of the minibuffer. It should not deliberately raise a frame that already has focus. > Is it not the case that acquiring the focus with Fx_focus_frame would be > better than not doing so? It does not restore the Emacs 26 behavior. If you look at the reports for Bug#8856, Bug#11566 or Bug#11939, you might be able to imagine how much time I spent to get the behavior right for Drew's setup back then. It's quite sobering to see my efforts from that period get wasted now. >> AFAICT the most simple approach appears to restore the Emacs 26 >> behavior for sessions with separate minibuffer frames. > > I'm not sure how simple that would be. Have you a patch to propose? No. I think you should trace all 'minibuffer-follows-selected-frame' related changes and make them pertinent to the value of that variable. Then people who need the old behavior could get it back by setting that variable to nil. It was an unwritten rule of Emacs development that a new feature that breaks established behavior should be (a) made optional and (b) by default turned off. Maybe that rule doesn't apply any more but at least (a) should be still supported. >> What would the semantics of 'minibuffer-follows-selected-frame' be for >> such a session anyway? > > I've a vague memory of checking this was OK at the time of the change. > I can't remember many of the details now, though. Then please try to remember. AFAICT 'minibuffer-follows-selected-frame' should never impact the behavior of separate minibuffer frames. martin
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame
In-Reply-To: <YscXC/M6wiZ6TKF+@ACM> (Alan Mackenzie's message of "Thu, 7 Jul
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> diff --git a/src/minibuf.c b/src/minibuf.c
> index 0fc7f2caa1..71fd62cede 100644
> --- a/src/minibuf.c
> +++ b/src/minibuf.c
> @@ -896,6 +896,12 @@ read_minibuf (Lisp_Object map, Lisp_Object initial, Lisp_Object prompt,
> /* Don't allow the user to undo past this point. */
> bset_undo_list (current_buffer, Qnil);
>
> + /* If some Emacs frame currently has the window-system focus, give
> + it to the minibuffer frame. This is sometimes needed for
> + minibuffer-only frames. */
> + if (FRAME_DISPLAY_INFO (XFRAME (mini_frame))->x_focus_frame)
> + Fx_focus_frame (mini_frame, Qt);
> +
> recursive_edit_1 ();
To avoid problems when we play with actual focus, what happens if we
play with the focus-redirection here instead?
Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 56305) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jul 2022 17:25:46 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jul 07 13:25:46 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57765 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1o9VG2-0003AK-AO for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2022 13:25:46 -0400 Received: from colin.muc.de ([193.149.48.1]:19341 helo=mail.muc.de) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <acm@HIDDEN>) id 1o9VFz-0003A4-Ah for 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2022 13:25:40 -0400 Received: (qmail 39196 invoked by uid 3782); 7 Jul 2022 17:25:32 -0000 Received: from acm.muc.de (p4fe15b63.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [79.225.91.99]) (using STARTTLS) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 07 Jul 2022 19:25:32 +0200 Received: (qmail 17667 invoked by uid 1000); 7 Jul 2022 17:25:31 -0000 Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2022 17:25:31 +0000 To: Andreas Schwab <schwab@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame Message-ID: <YscXC/M6wiZ6TKF+@ACM> References: <YsNC93sM8UnXpXzP@ACM> <83h73w8f7i.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsRfxFkXRqzlFLgG@ACM> <83zghn7ckd.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsXAqHnCkG45OuO5@ACM> <83zghm5evt.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsXRYxGddhK9uMN1@ACM> <878rp6qd9t.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsXdCDcIDgjq4eRj@ACM> <874jzuqcr7.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <874jzuqcr7.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Submission-Agent: TMDA/1.3.x (Ph3nix) From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN> X-Primary-Address: acm@HIDDEN X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56305 Cc: rudalics@HIDDEN, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, acm@HIDDEN, 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hello, Andreas. On Wed, Jul 06, 2022 at 21:09:32 +0200, Andreas Schwab wrote: > On Jul 06 2022, Alan Mackenzie wrote: > > Not obviously. We're about to run the recursive edit for read_minibuf, > > so the frame with the mini-window should have the focus anyway. > Does it? I don't see why Emacs must be in the foreground when it wants > to read from the minibuffer. How about this, then? It's not perfect, since the test and the focus setting aren't atomic, but it should work OK at human speeds, shouldn't it? diff --git a/src/minibuf.c b/src/minibuf.c index 0fc7f2caa1..71fd62cede 100644 --- a/src/minibuf.c +++ b/src/minibuf.c @@ -896,6 +896,12 @@ read_minibuf (Lisp_Object map, Lisp_Object initial, Lisp_Object prompt, /* Don't allow the user to undo past this point. */ bset_undo_list (current_buffer, Qnil); + /* If some Emacs frame currently has the window-system focus, give + it to the minibuffer frame. This is sometimes needed for + minibuffer-only frames. */ + if (FRAME_DISPLAY_INFO (XFRAME (mini_frame))->x_focus_frame) + Fx_focus_frame (mini_frame, Qt); + recursive_edit_1 (); /* If cursor is on the minibuffer line, > -- > Andreas Schwab, schwab@HIDDEN > GPG Key fingerprint = 7578 EB47 D4E5 4D69 2510 2552 DF73 E780 A9DA AEC1 > "And now for something completely different." -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 56305) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jul 2022 15:54:51 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jul 07 11:54:51 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57679 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1o9Tq7-0000pc-0d for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2022 11:54:51 -0400 Received: from colin.muc.de ([193.149.48.1]:16547 helo=mail.muc.de) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <acm@HIDDEN>) id 1o9Tq5-0000pP-Mq for 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2022 11:54:50 -0400 Received: (qmail 77873 invoked by uid 3782); 7 Jul 2022 15:54:43 -0000 Received: from acm.muc.de (p4fe15b63.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [79.225.91.99]) (using STARTTLS) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 07 Jul 2022 17:54:42 +0200 Received: (qmail 16412 invoked by uid 1000); 7 Jul 2022 15:54:41 -0000 Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2022 15:54:41 +0000 To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame Message-ID: <YscBwTujCbK9nSSr@ACM> References: <YsG/R6PieUH5Rle/@ACM> <83bku69nn2.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsM7D2bQPapLEBir@ACM> <83iloc8yzs.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsNC93sM8UnXpXzP@ACM> <83h73w8f7i.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsRfxFkXRqzlFLgG@ACM> <83zghn7ckd.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsXAqHnCkG45OuO5@ACM> <83zghm5evt.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <83zghm5evt.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Submission-Agent: TMDA/1.3.x (Ph3nix) From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN> X-Primary-Address: acm@HIDDEN X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56305 Cc: rudalics@HIDDEN, 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hello, Eli. On Wed, Jul 06, 2022 at 20:29:10 +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2022 17:04:40 +0000 > > Cc: rudalics@HIDDEN, monnier@HIDDEN, 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, > > acm@HIDDEN > > From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN> > > > Do you have a suggestion for a change there to improve the behavior? > > I do now. I think we should expunge the entire section of code. > I'm okay with doing that on master, .... OK, I've committed that patch to master, removing that section of code. > .... but who will tell us what will that do for Emacs 28? I hoped to > be able to release Emacs 28.2 soon-ish, so I don't want to wait for > this change to collect enough trust so that we could cherry-pick it. > I guess that means Emacs 28.2 will have this issue unresolved, unless > someone comes up with some ideas. The situation on the release branch is still fluid. -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 56305) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jul 2022 09:12:23 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jul 07 05:12:23 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55767 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1o9NYd-0004Xx-Du for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2022 05:12:23 -0400 Received: from colin.muc.de ([193.149.48.1]:60549 helo=mail.muc.de) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <acm@HIDDEN>) id 1o9NYZ-0004Xj-J7 for 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2022 05:12:22 -0400 Received: (qmail 74516 invoked by uid 3782); 7 Jul 2022 09:12:13 -0000 Received: from acm.muc.de (p4fe15b63.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [79.225.91.99]) (using STARTTLS) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 07 Jul 2022 11:12:13 +0200 Received: (qmail 5007 invoked by uid 1000); 7 Jul 2022 09:12:12 -0000 Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2022 09:12:12 +0000 To: martin rudalics <rudalics@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame Message-ID: <YsajbHnSgbScvguW@ACM> References: <YsM7D2bQPapLEBir@ACM> <83iloc8yzs.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsNC93sM8UnXpXzP@ACM> <83h73w8f7i.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsRfxFkXRqzlFLgG@ACM> <83zghn7ckd.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsXAqHnCkG45OuO5@ACM> <83zghm5evt.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsXRYxGddhK9uMN1@ACM> <5d86d890-9a2e-e4d6-13fb-da03285ea003@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <5d86d890-9a2e-e4d6-13fb-da03285ea003@HIDDEN> X-Submission-Agent: TMDA/1.3.x (Ph3nix) From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN> X-Primary-Address: acm@HIDDEN X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56305 Cc: 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, monnier@HIDDEN, acm@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hello, Martin. On Thu, Jul 07, 2022 at 09:55:18 +0200, martin rudalics wrote: > > An idea I had on Sunday was to forcibly set the window system focus > > to the minibuffer frame just before the recursive edit in > > read_minibuf, though I didn't post a patch for it. This appears to > > work for me. > This will still raise the minibuffer frame above the normal frame if > your window manager uses a "Raise on focus" policy. So it's not any > different from using 'select-frame-set-input-focus' here. I don't follow. If the WM does "Raise on focus", surely it will raise the frame no matter how it acquires the focus. Such focus is here essential for the working of the minibuffer. Is it not the case that acquiring the focus with Fx_focus_frame would be better than not doing so? > AFAICT the most simple approach appears to restore the Emacs 26 > behavior for sessions with separate minibuffer frames. I'm not sure how simple that would be. Have you a patch to propose? The state we're in at the moment is that the cause of the bug has been tentatively identified and a fix proposed (see one of my posts from yesterday). This fix would be too risky for the release branch, so we need a "safe" workaround for that branch. > What would the semantics of 'minibuffer-follows-selected-frame' be for > such a session anyway? I've a vague memory of checking this was OK at the time of the change. I can't remember many of the details now, though. > martin -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 56305) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Jul 2022 07:55:34 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jul 07 03:55:34 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55667 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1o9MMI-0000NX-HP for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2022 03:55:34 -0400 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.18]:41081) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <rudalics@HIDDEN>) id 1o9MMG-0000NJ-AZ for 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2022 03:55:32 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1657180521; bh=J8yf0Jk/qgw96Ww9TWoEK82BV01La9EIu4pu/lanHhY=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Date:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:In-Reply-To; b=XNjZl6s/Em/qHRwK9k0GcCfUeJ4Jt2sH64sCC/UFGNeIpcbsJNi6XGIz2QWrFG9ZV oFcNILCOu1dz7dGUdef69K+sIiWkBbiOXe6pxtV3KvxXmOsifn1JHeNpas1d65uWBL ERioFPx84KPdcDsBTYzlpdhVPMw5+4ViK3HOTk0A= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [192.168.1.101] ([46.125.249.101]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx005 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MbRfv-1ncVVY2F9l-00bsuu; Thu, 07 Jul 2022 09:55:21 +0200 Message-ID: <5d86d890-9a2e-e4d6-13fb-da03285ea003@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2022 09:55:18 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame Content-Language: en-US To: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> References: <YsG/R6PieUH5Rle/@ACM> <83bku69nn2.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsM7D2bQPapLEBir@ACM> <83iloc8yzs.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsNC93sM8UnXpXzP@ACM> <83h73w8f7i.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsRfxFkXRqzlFLgG@ACM> <83zghn7ckd.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsXAqHnCkG45OuO5@ACM> <83zghm5evt.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsXRYxGddhK9uMN1@ACM> From: martin rudalics <rudalics@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <YsXRYxGddhK9uMN1@ACM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:LFr/BjXRVpWHXs6ekD8h9q1w8n4E3N95DNq4d0lIfNtqS2SHBRi RuZu1l870AwSGrUWIwsfSDKTec9LxAdeTjKtoIILJ7fOHRnMNDG3kT9IDkm0IOTuc0SWPwn jhB6d9F2ZTkL1jVD/K+r4Fra+XtmaFPjRASHlXHvEGhxHAVqknwizoq5PUyOJhcQs/GAKnv 7KptrLjj8NhoZWFYKpqbQ== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:raIY7H4tHeQ=:d1ewfu9SrCz+70RQIIqFy5 yvjv0Jl3kOGJ/AAY3KYaJDM5Q/4c2QXyLK9AesFgT4JGdbBYgWxRQrsqgow285sZ8Ddb+DY51 b28y9/1IHiRYAYrvPK1k0bLCR5d0myEepquuRH8sM+dM7+MpiiVMaVI3Hhi/GYUC4Ov5gnMTP NI//ocnpBSEmneG67Zjr2Ku/DzK4df0mEWdiwdCp5NV9i407lLPnJCzflqLUSQf3UNIFqN6Kt UR+Ki1xIP1NOUJBh8gaW6nzp4hm4OpFtrvrMqdGtOUGrgU/eqCiC94KZ/Dotkxd4HjAcQ6eVY Iq2ofvvRj98umMIQzfBVP1rmjnClZ8v33CRpjDyXl28yJVyiUx54AUOsjDBuXNDaS5KpY26bT Fr/srNrtwF1wBCqQD85G1q2HINUYeF5VbDdpsvGqK76LB2yHKY4ZgjpkFV15kW5bi+QL6rI3r ujLVnkS0fYRC2S6h4+cOxoFnQOhSPpfbIECoX46cE7jP1e216xFjFm6Szf0wI2PsS4B+zbReV /LhZuxW/oE2wgBGftOnD+whOOmFk8cxSccXQhbMAcc9ipRabDV1kGXTWiNkfDimBtDl1W0GZ+ NXgPHeeDBn5YyLQuGbi3hhcVin7CfBlQsFKRY0izOcNCKvAwhrBpShv/y9TuhzbvRQ33ywTax uab66ft7aigpDj2QnSoYn0haaZnQ1QqNRGPRbHRCtmFCW7MlgvLY3w9XT4E2/5ZSa9B84rZ8u xTlZvKOxtWriqVAvcDlSs8BLjbEEOFuibNxKOPBeaigyW2mJoqJtbVq1C7EuK+WssLxGr6wOH SO4/p6t/IJKWhhhMPwl8ECpXE5p4M49fVpUdx5lvGqbNx9AM37HRP+vDXELSc6+mbIVNjdAet GEpMBzQ75Q1e0oiutfsKHtomDD1I44HHU5myF1EZliO6pDe43BW7roU5EKZBfXh1fzYlHVvXz wq/sj/RTUp/qzFD4pm3sF1wOzw/RtHH3PXVbZ5dfOpi6TDMcuUf7GwRMWl8IrsSNahyhdEfXY 5uBa5UMmFGjBIPTajGUrRZVkVFuJt6dTkFOjo+dKi/XN0nzZfDmO+pvLA1NUj657yyzcyd8af 7hYZWVZNoTa0mnknBanyWF2M4st5xHRUgG5gYNZFfz3N5YyfXTKEfsBKg== X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56305 Cc: 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > An idea I had on Sunday was to forcibly set the window system focus to > the minibuffer frame just before the recursive edit in read_minibuf, > though I didn't post a patch for it. This appears to work for me. This will still raise the minibuffer frame above the normal frame if your window manager uses a "Raise on focus" policy. So it's not any different from using 'select-frame-set-input-focus' here. AFAICT the most simple approach appears to restore the Emacs 26 behavior for sessions with separate minibuffer frames. What would the semantics of 'minibuffer-follows-selected-frame' be for such a session anyway? martin
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 56305) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Jul 2022 19:22:39 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 06 15:22:39 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55212 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1o9Abf-0001vK-Jy for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2022 15:22:39 -0400 Received: from colin.muc.de ([193.149.48.1]:38290 helo=mail.muc.de) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <acm@HIDDEN>) id 1o9Abd-0001v6-5X for 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2022 15:22:37 -0400 Received: (qmail 11490 invoked by uid 3782); 6 Jul 2022 19:22:30 -0000 Received: from acm.muc.de (p4fe15bd4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [79.225.91.212]) (using STARTTLS) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 06 Jul 2022 21:22:30 +0200 Received: (qmail 9111 invoked by uid 1000); 6 Jul 2022 19:22:29 -0000 Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2022 19:22:29 +0000 To: Andreas Schwab <schwab@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame Message-ID: <YsXg9emFKbcsyk3T@ACM> References: <YsNC93sM8UnXpXzP@ACM> <83h73w8f7i.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsRfxFkXRqzlFLgG@ACM> <83zghn7ckd.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsXAqHnCkG45OuO5@ACM> <83zghm5evt.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsXRYxGddhK9uMN1@ACM> <878rp6qd9t.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsXdCDcIDgjq4eRj@ACM> <874jzuqcr7.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <874jzuqcr7.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Submission-Agent: TMDA/1.3.x (Ph3nix) From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN> X-Primary-Address: acm@HIDDEN X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56305 Cc: rudalics@HIDDEN, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hello, Andreas. On Wed, Jul 06, 2022 at 21:09:32 +0200, Andreas Schwab wrote: > On Jul 06 2022, Alan Mackenzie wrote: > > Not obviously. We're about to run the recursive edit for read_minibuf, > > so the frame with the mini-window should have the focus anyway. > Does it? I don't see why Emacs must be in the foreground when it wants > to read from the minibuffer. Ah right - a different program might have the focus, and a user typing into that other program would suddenly find herself typing into the Emacs minibuffer instead. This isn't ideal. Maybe there's some way of testing whether some Emacs frame has the focus before executing Fx_focus_frame, and if not, not executing Fx_focus_frame. > -- > Andreas Schwab, schwab@HIDDEN > GPG Key fingerprint = 7578 EB47 D4E5 4D69 2510 2552 DF73 E780 A9DA AEC1 > "And now for something completely different." -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 56305) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Jul 2022 19:09:38 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 06 15:09:38 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55197 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1o9AP4-0001Zp-H8 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2022 15:09:38 -0400 Received: from mail-out.m-online.net ([212.18.0.10]:44538) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <whitebox@HIDDEN>) id 1o9AP2-0001Zg-14 for 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2022 15:09:36 -0400 Received: from frontend01.mail.m-online.net (unknown [192.168.8.182]) by mail-out.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4LdTcY5XN0z1s89D; Wed, 6 Jul 2022 21:09:33 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (dynscan1.mnet-online.de [192.168.6.70]) by mail.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4LdTcY2QSVz1qqkD; Wed, 6 Jul 2022 21:09:33 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mnet-online.de Received: from mail.mnet-online.de ([192.168.8.182]) by localhost (dynscan1.mail.m-online.net [192.168.6.70]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bz12MqDTFEIw; Wed, 6 Jul 2022 21:09:32 +0200 (CEST) X-Auth-Info: nfvM2MpYfRSMSvJ4cLt6ryCpU/Fyg7mdLomtfYlmyV74N45X5cUyQXj/1Arq11nf Received: from igel.home (ppp-46-244-183-210.dynamic.mnet-online.de [46.244.183.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.mnet-online.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA; Wed, 6 Jul 2022 21:09:32 +0200 (CEST) Received: by igel.home (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 3BCB22C3921; Wed, 6 Jul 2022 21:09:32 +0200 (CEST) From: Andreas Schwab <schwab@HIDDEN> To: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame References: <YsM7D2bQPapLEBir@ACM> <83iloc8yzs.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsNC93sM8UnXpXzP@ACM> <83h73w8f7i.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsRfxFkXRqzlFLgG@ACM> <83zghn7ckd.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsXAqHnCkG45OuO5@ACM> <83zghm5evt.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsXRYxGddhK9uMN1@ACM> <878rp6qd9t.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsXdCDcIDgjq4eRj@ACM> X-Yow: When this load is DONE I think I'll wash it AGAIN.. Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2022 21:09:32 +0200 In-Reply-To: <YsXdCDcIDgjq4eRj@ACM> (Alan Mackenzie's message of "Wed, 6 Jul 2022 19:05:44 +0000") Message-ID: <874jzuqcr7.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.1.90 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56305 Cc: rudalics@HIDDEN, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) On Jul 06 2022, Alan Mackenzie wrote: > Not obviously. We're about to run the recursive edit for read_minibuf, > so the frame with the mini-window should have the focus anyway. Does it? I don't see why Emacs must be in the foreground when it wants to read from the minibuffer. -- Andreas Schwab, schwab@HIDDEN GPG Key fingerprint = 7578 EB47 D4E5 4D69 2510 2552 DF73 E780 A9DA AEC1 "And now for something completely different."
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 56305) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Jul 2022 19:05:57 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 06 15:05:57 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55193 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1o9ALU-0001U8-VO for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2022 15:05:57 -0400 Received: from colin.muc.de ([193.149.48.1]:37849 helo=mail.muc.de) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <acm@HIDDEN>) id 1o9ALP-0001Tn-Mm for 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2022 15:05:55 -0400 Received: (qmail 96504 invoked by uid 3782); 6 Jul 2022 19:05:45 -0000 Received: from acm.muc.de (p4fe15bd4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [79.225.91.212]) (using STARTTLS) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 06 Jul 2022 21:05:45 +0200 Received: (qmail 9051 invoked by uid 1000); 6 Jul 2022 19:05:44 -0000 Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2022 19:05:44 +0000 To: Andreas Schwab <schwab@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame Message-ID: <YsXdCDcIDgjq4eRj@ACM> References: <YsM7D2bQPapLEBir@ACM> <83iloc8yzs.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsNC93sM8UnXpXzP@ACM> <83h73w8f7i.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsRfxFkXRqzlFLgG@ACM> <83zghn7ckd.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsXAqHnCkG45OuO5@ACM> <83zghm5evt.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsXRYxGddhK9uMN1@ACM> <878rp6qd9t.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <878rp6qd9t.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Submission-Agent: TMDA/1.3.x (Ph3nix) From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN> X-Primary-Address: acm@HIDDEN X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56305 Cc: rudalics@HIDDEN, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hello, Andreas. On Wed, Jul 06, 2022 at 20:58:22 +0200, Andreas Schwab wrote: > On Jul 06 2022, Alan Mackenzie wrote: > > diff --git a/src/minibuf.c b/src/minibuf.c > > index 0fc7f2caa1..7723167d4d 100644 > > --- a/src/minibuf.c > > +++ b/src/minibuf.c > > @@ -896,6 +896,10 @@ read_minibuf (Lisp_Object map, Lisp_Object initial, Lisp_Object prompt, > > /* Don't allow the user to undo past this point. */ > > bset_undo_list (current_buffer, Qnil); > > + /* Ensure that the minibuffer frame has the window-system focus. > > + This is sometimes needed for minibuffer-only frames. */ > > + Fx_focus_frame (mini_frame, Qt); > Can't this steal focus from unrelated windows? Not obviously. We're about to run the recursive edit for read_minibuf, so the frame with the mini-window should have the focus anyway. The only possibility of theft that I see is if a normal frame already has its focus redirected to a minibuffer frame. In that case the normal frame will lose focus. I don't think this will happen, or if it does, it won't be serious. > -- > Andreas Schwab, schwab@HIDDEN > GPG Key fingerprint = 7578 EB47 D4E5 4D69 2510 2552 DF73 E780 A9DA AEC1 > "And now for something completely different." -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 56305) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Jul 2022 18:58:29 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 06 14:58:29 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55173 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1o9AEH-0001GI-3J for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2022 14:58:29 -0400 Received: from mail-out.m-online.net ([212.18.0.9]:33806) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <whitebox@HIDDEN>) id 1o9AEF-0001GA-95 for 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2022 14:58:27 -0400 Received: from frontend01.mail.m-online.net (unknown [192.168.8.182]) by mail-out.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4LdTMj23mRz1qyJZ; Wed, 6 Jul 2022 20:58:25 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (dynscan1.mnet-online.de [192.168.6.70]) by mail.m-online.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4LdTMj0FZkz1qqkB; Wed, 6 Jul 2022 20:58:25 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mnet-online.de Received: from mail.mnet-online.de ([192.168.8.182]) by localhost (dynscan1.mail.m-online.net [192.168.6.70]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tJqc2eC6-k0r; Wed, 6 Jul 2022 20:58:24 +0200 (CEST) X-Auth-Info: NWRCn3+KTQiCRLa2ztCohMta5TGHvL94t/zqiwbWiPck5Pv2Y1iXHzft9LsV0KL1 Received: from igel.home (ppp-46-244-183-210.dynamic.mnet-online.de [46.244.183.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.mnet-online.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA; Wed, 6 Jul 2022 20:58:23 +0200 (CEST) Received: by igel.home (Postfix, from userid 1000) id B20792C3921; Wed, 6 Jul 2022 20:58:22 +0200 (CEST) From: Andreas Schwab <schwab@HIDDEN> To: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame References: <YsG/R6PieUH5Rle/@ACM> <83bku69nn2.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsM7D2bQPapLEBir@ACM> <83iloc8yzs.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsNC93sM8UnXpXzP@ACM> <83h73w8f7i.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsRfxFkXRqzlFLgG@ACM> <83zghn7ckd.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsXAqHnCkG45OuO5@ACM> <83zghm5evt.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsXRYxGddhK9uMN1@ACM> X-Yow: How many retired bricklayers from FLORIDA are out purchasing PENCIL SHARPENERS right NOW?? Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2022 20:58:22 +0200 In-Reply-To: <YsXRYxGddhK9uMN1@ACM> (Alan Mackenzie's message of "Wed, 6 Jul 2022 18:16:03 +0000") Message-ID: <878rp6qd9t.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.1.90 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56305 Cc: rudalics@HIDDEN, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) On Jul 06 2022, Alan Mackenzie wrote: > diff --git a/src/minibuf.c b/src/minibuf.c > index 0fc7f2caa1..7723167d4d 100644 > --- a/src/minibuf.c > +++ b/src/minibuf.c > @@ -896,6 +896,10 @@ read_minibuf (Lisp_Object map, Lisp_Object initial, Lisp_Object prompt, > /* Don't allow the user to undo past this point. */ > bset_undo_list (current_buffer, Qnil); > > + /* Ensure that the minibuffer frame has the window-system focus. > + This is sometimes needed for minibuffer-only frames. */ > + Fx_focus_frame (mini_frame, Qt); Can't this steal focus from unrelated windows? -- Andreas Schwab, schwab@HIDDEN GPG Key fingerprint = 7578 EB47 D4E5 4D69 2510 2552 DF73 E780 A9DA AEC1 "And now for something completely different."
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame
In-Reply-To: <YsXRYxGddhK9uMN1@ACM> (Alan Mackenzie's message of "Wed, 6 Jul
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>> > > Do you have a suggestion for a change there to improve the behavior?
>> > I do now. I think we should expunge the entire section of code.
FWIW, I totally agree. I'm far from sure that the result will be what
we want, but I think that in case it's not we will then know better what
it is that we want and we'll be in a better position to find
a good solution.
>> I guess that means Emacs 28.2 will have this issue unresolved, unless
>> someone comes up with some ideas.
> An idea I had on Sunday was to forcibly set the window system focus to
> the minibuffer frame just before the recursive edit in read_minibuf,
> though I didn't post a patch for it. This appears to work for me.
Not sure if "Fx_focus_frame (mini_frame, Qt)" is The Right solution
in the sense that it may fail to correctly set the accompanying
redirection from the "original" frame.
But it seems like a good stop-gap for `emacs-28`, yes. I'd recommend we
try not to use it in `master` (where we could instead check that the
mini_frame has the focus and drop into the debugger if not to try and
figure out what can cause such a situation).
Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 56305) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Jul 2022 18:16:13 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 06 14:16:13 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55135 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1o99ZM-00007P-M5 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2022 14:16:12 -0400 Received: from colin.muc.de ([193.149.48.1]:36545 helo=mail.muc.de) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <acm@HIDDEN>) id 1o99ZK-00007C-Iz for 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2022 14:16:11 -0400 Received: (qmail 61191 invoked by uid 3782); 6 Jul 2022 18:16:04 -0000 Received: from acm.muc.de (p4fe15bd4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [79.225.91.212]) (using STARTTLS) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 06 Jul 2022 20:16:04 +0200 Received: (qmail 8682 invoked by uid 1000); 6 Jul 2022 18:16:03 -0000 Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2022 18:16:03 +0000 To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame Message-ID: <YsXRYxGddhK9uMN1@ACM> References: <YsG/R6PieUH5Rle/@ACM> <83bku69nn2.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsM7D2bQPapLEBir@ACM> <83iloc8yzs.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsNC93sM8UnXpXzP@ACM> <83h73w8f7i.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsRfxFkXRqzlFLgG@ACM> <83zghn7ckd.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsXAqHnCkG45OuO5@ACM> <83zghm5evt.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <83zghm5evt.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Submission-Agent: TMDA/1.3.x (Ph3nix) From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN> X-Primary-Address: acm@HIDDEN X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56305 Cc: rudalics@HIDDEN, 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hello, Eli and Martin. On Wed, Jul 06, 2022 at 20:29:10 +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2022 17:04:40 +0000 > > Cc: rudalics@HIDDEN, monnier@HIDDEN, 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, > > acm@HIDDEN > > From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN> > > > Do you have a suggestion for a change there to improve the behavior? > > I do now. I think we should expunge the entire section of code. > I'm okay with doing that on master, but who will tell us what will > that do for Emacs 28? I hoped to be able to release Emacs 28.2 > soon-ish, so I don't want to wait for this change to collect enough > trust so that we could cherry-pick it. I think I will wait a day and see if Martin or Stefan or anybody else has anything more to say about it. > I guess that means Emacs 28.2 will have this issue unresolved, unless > someone comes up with some ideas. An idea I had on Sunday was to forcibly set the window system focus to the minibuffer frame just before the recursive edit in read_minibuf, though I didn't post a patch for it. This appears to work for me. It would look something like this: diff --git a/src/minibuf.c b/src/minibuf.c index 0fc7f2caa1..7723167d4d 100644 --- a/src/minibuf.c +++ b/src/minibuf.c @@ -896,6 +896,10 @@ read_minibuf (Lisp_Object map, Lisp_Object initial, Lisp_Object prompt, /* Don't allow the user to undo past this point. */ bset_undo_list (current_buffer, Qnil); + /* Ensure that the minibuffer frame has the window-system focus. + This is sometimes needed for minibuffer-only frames. */ + Fx_focus_frame (mini_frame, Qt); + recursive_edit_1 (); /* If cursor is on the minibuffer line, -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 56305) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Jul 2022 17:29:32 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 06 13:29:32 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55008 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1o98qB-000795-QW for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2022 13:29:32 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:44222) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1o98q2-00078G-Fx for 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2022 13:29:30 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:51848) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1o98pv-0006s8-Ut; Wed, 06 Jul 2022 13:29:15 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=+oFiZRhCzmBs8tL+B0E/HsuSO+cfw2MlolNMHEX10dA=; b=RjZ7M8KQ0qtV E0FykmJo2an4nMAllBn9g+rnjkw6a9PQRf/C109TCRoUbsfBIRSNokxwz204H9LPIG5SOQH1lYtKB /baw4zoFIvNzMTlLHxz6yT16oBlf5uzj0vWsR5eo+1QOxQF/jYtpyR8GlamLI1/aUKsX88H+Q/fTq 8BKQVtxX/pe+0/D4pZAUIqhJr3NlcsXa6pRJCEqZjcLzXLQCDG9ykG4FtXT+ZiQuYlAdcRGLNTnP2 V6gHc2dY9+6IhK7ob4QtEm1L12p5g7orQNxgVRZUMSnj921vlJfo/Y/vchIuNvRebuAOWfCYGRu6l Pp1YuTeQtk3TPcUH7UQxmA==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=2440 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1o98pv-0007az-DY; Wed, 06 Jul 2022 13:29:15 -0400 Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2022 20:29:10 +0300 Message-Id: <83zghm5evt.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <YsXAqHnCkG45OuO5@ACM> (message from Alan Mackenzie on Wed, 6 Jul 2022 17:04:40 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame References: <YsAuHihIvRl2RW5O@ACM> <de2f43f5-e098-cc82-1472-69e8c29ede5f@HIDDEN> <YsG/R6PieUH5Rle/@ACM> <83bku69nn2.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsM7D2bQPapLEBir@ACM> <83iloc8yzs.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsNC93sM8UnXpXzP@ACM> <83h73w8f7i.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsRfxFkXRqzlFLgG@ACM> <83zghn7ckd.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsXAqHnCkG45OuO5@ACM> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56305 Cc: rudalics@HIDDEN, 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@HIDDEN, acm@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2022 17:04:40 +0000 > Cc: rudalics@HIDDEN, monnier@HIDDEN, 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, > acm@HIDDEN > From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN> > > > Do you have a suggestion for a change there to improve the behavior? > > I do now. I think we should expunge the entire section of code. I'm okay with doing that on master, but who will tell us what will that do for Emacs 28? I hoped to be able to release Emacs 28.2 soon-ish, so I don't want to wait for this change to collect enough trust so that we could cherry-pick it. I guess that means Emacs 28.2 will have this issue unresolved, unless someone comes up with some ideas.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
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To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame
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Hello, Eli, Martin and Stefan.
On Tue, Jul 05, 2022 at 19:24:02 +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2022 15:59:00 +0000
> > Cc: rudalics@HIDDEN, monnier@HIDDEN, 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> > From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN>
> > > > After typing C-x C-c, rather than exiting, this particular Emacs
> > > > prompts:
> > > > "Active processes exist; kill them and exit anyway? (yes or no) "
> > > > on MBF and it opens a window *Process List* on NF.
> > > Sounds right to me: the frame where Emacs presents some important
> > > information has focus. If you think this is wrong, please tell why.
> > Well, I don't have a firm opinion on this, but yes-or-no-p is an active
> > function, here. We always leave the minibuffer as the selected window
> > for this function, certainly when we've a normal minibuffer in the frame.
> > Why should it be different when we've got a minibuffer-only frame?
> > Also, the mechanism by which NF gets the focus in the bug scenario
> > appears to be random. When the focus starts out in NF and we do C-x C-c,
> > the focus moves to MBF. This is inconsistent.
> > The place where the randomness takes effect is the
> > Fredirect_frame_focus (gfocus, frame);
> > in do_switch_frame I drew attention to yesterday.
> Do you have a suggestion for a change there to improve the behavior?
I do now. I think we should expunge the entire section of code.
I've spent several hours trying to make sense of it, and failed. The
code section is 30 years old, and Jim Blandy's comment (from 1992)
suggests that the code was inserted to enable movement between frames
using other-window.
That code was written a few months before the new function other-window
was first committed. The #ifdef 0 made its appearance in 1993, it being
written by Karl Heuer.
My feeling is that the code section became redundant in the early 1990s,
immediately after the introduction of other-frame, but lived on since
nobody could be sure it wasn't needed.
As I said, I don't understand the code section, and my Emacs appears to
run OK without it. I think we should get rid of it. Alternatively, if
somebody else can see a purpose for it, maybe we could amend it to leave
that purpose intact and solve Martin's bug #56305 at the same time.
Here's the patch (based on master) I propose should be committed,
possibly experimentally. Comments would we welcome:
diff --git a/src/frame.c b/src/frame.c
index c21461d49f..f9e4b2a0e2 100644
--- a/src/frame.c
+++ b/src/frame.c
@@ -1477,59 +1477,6 @@ do_switch_frame (Lisp_Object frame, int track, int for_deletion, Lisp_Object nor
else if (f == sf)
return frame;
- /* If a frame's focus has been redirected toward the currently
- selected frame, we should change the redirection to point to the
- newly selected frame. This means that if the focus is redirected
- from a minibufferless frame to a surrogate minibuffer frame, we
- can use `other-window' to switch between all the frames using
- that minibuffer frame, and the focus redirection will follow us
- around. */
-#if 0
- /* This is too greedy; it causes inappropriate focus redirection
- that's hard to get rid of. */
- if (track)
- {
- Lisp_Object tail;
-
- for (tail = Vframe_list; CONSP (tail); tail = XCDR (tail))
- {
- Lisp_Object focus;
-
- if (!FRAMEP (XCAR (tail)))
- emacs_abort ();
-
- focus = FRAME_FOCUS_FRAME (XFRAME (XCAR (tail)));
-
- if (FRAMEP (focus) && XFRAME (focus) == SELECTED_FRAME ())
- Fredirect_frame_focus (XCAR (tail), frame);
- }
- }
-#else /* ! 0 */
- /* Instead, apply it only to the frame we're pointing to. */
-#ifdef HAVE_WINDOW_SYSTEM
- if (track && FRAME_WINDOW_P (f) && FRAME_TERMINAL (f)->get_focus_frame)
- {
- Lisp_Object focus, gfocus;
-
- gfocus = FRAME_TERMINAL (f)->get_focus_frame (f);
- if (FRAMEP (gfocus))
- {
- focus = FRAME_FOCUS_FRAME (XFRAME (gfocus));
- if (FRAMEP (focus) && XFRAME (focus) == SELECTED_FRAME ())
- /* Redirect frame focus also when FRAME has its minibuffer
- window on the selected frame (see Bug#24500).
-
- Don't do that: It causes redirection problem with a
- separate minibuffer frame (Bug#24803) and problems
- when updating the cursor on such frames.
- || (NILP (focus)
- && EQ (FRAME_MINIBUF_WINDOW (f), sf->selected_window))) */
- Fredirect_frame_focus (gfocus, frame);
- }
- }
-#endif /* HAVE_X_WINDOWS */
-#endif /* ! 0 */
-
if (!for_deletion && FRAME_HAS_MINIBUF_P (sf))
resize_mini_window (XWINDOW (FRAME_MINIBUF_WINDOW (sf)), 1);
--
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
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To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame
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Hello, Eli.
On Tue, Jul 05, 2022 at 19:24:02 +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2022 15:59:00 +0000
> > Cc: rudalics@HIDDEN, monnier@HIDDEN, 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> > From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN>
> > > > After typing C-x C-c, rather than exiting, this particular Emacs
> > > > prompts:
> > > > "Active processes exist; kill them and exit anyway? (yes or no) "
> > > > on MBF and it opens a window *Process List* on NF.
> > > Sounds right to me: the frame where Emacs presents some important
> > > information has focus. If you think this is wrong, please tell why.
> > Well, I don't have a firm opinion on this, but yes-or-no-p is an active
> > function, here. We always leave the minibuffer as the selected window
> > for this function, certainly when we've a normal minibuffer in the frame.
> > Why should it be different when we've got a minibuffer-only frame?
> > Also, the mechanism by which NF gets the focus in the bug scenario
> > appears to be random. When the focus starts out in NF and we do C-x C-c,
> > the focus moves to MBF. This is inconsistent.
> > The place where the randomness takes effect is the
> > Fredirect_frame_focus (gfocus, frame);
> > in do_switch_frame I drew attention to yesterday.
> Do you have a suggestion for a change there to improve the behavior?
As yet, no. I am still having trouble understanding the code well
enough.
But there's at least one interesting aspect. In the Elisp manual page
"Input Focus" appears the following:
Lisp programs can switch frames temporarily by calling the function
`select-frame'. This does not alter the window system's concept of
focus; rather, it escapes from the window manager's control until that
control is somehow reasserted.
This is sadly not true - the functions called by that
Fredirect_frame_focus in do_switch_frame do indeed change the window
system's focus - in particular x_frame_rehighlight (in xterm.c). If we
were to change the code rather than the manual here, I think a fair bit
of confusion would vanish. But this isn't something for the release
branch. ;-)
--
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 56305) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Jul 2022 16:24:20 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jul 05 12:24:20 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51410 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1o8lLX-0003YW-QH for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 Jul 2022 12:24:20 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:50548) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1o8lLV-0003YJ-Eu for 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 Jul 2022 12:24:18 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:33866) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1o8lLO-0007EP-SF; Tue, 05 Jul 2022 12:24:10 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=S3uKREvWRSuL60dEogxIDj5k/lj3/BA5A80mYsMxnbw=; b=f4q59WYjg6FN Joi/vidQSAO5J+NjsWA8eG/+eEiKY9i3HsxTIfUi97g6oUu8SuKJcjgmC01NayVW/Awe08KqhHp+x oMtLO8aqmSqkFiKHkv/+U8rfh99zgjQlHsUOo3+Arvc33ZMfDmD3E4OnbSdEWLXwWejgv/D5EPUYa px6t0VL5rUM9Mo1A4I4OF9mqQzVEUDZ7JCT2lSCtSLgd9OqcRNOG8rsFKn1FCYZ7PLAclAUm8q8ur 0rvjWshlRmhMIUI5IJ883C9Z/Wuko8R+iN2YDFKgqGcXeYmLazCJqOfbqiQGOhWOkBJ1kgZl0vnC6 2g4e40ir+b4+NAsnNGCo7g==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=1763 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1o8lLO-00057E-9n; Tue, 05 Jul 2022 12:24:10 -0400 Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2022 19:24:02 +0300 Message-Id: <83zghn7ckd.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <YsRfxFkXRqzlFLgG@ACM> (message from Alan Mackenzie on Tue, 5 Jul 2022 15:59:00 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame References: <3984f6ec-1988-f0ae-d44c-f4b92a202938@HIDDEN> <83o7yb5lqe.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsAuHihIvRl2RW5O@ACM> <de2f43f5-e098-cc82-1472-69e8c29ede5f@HIDDEN> <YsG/R6PieUH5Rle/@ACM> <83bku69nn2.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsM7D2bQPapLEBir@ACM> <83iloc8yzs.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsNC93sM8UnXpXzP@ACM> <83h73w8f7i.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsRfxFkXRqzlFLgG@ACM> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56305 Cc: rudalics@HIDDEN, 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2022 15:59:00 +0000 > Cc: rudalics@HIDDEN, monnier@HIDDEN, 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN> > > > > After typing C-x C-c, rather than exiting, this particular Emacs > > > prompts: > > > > "Active processes exist; kill them and exit anyway? (yes or no) " > > > > on MBF and it opens a window *Process List* on NF. > > > Sounds right to me: the frame where Emacs presents some important > > information has focus. If you think this is wrong, please tell why. > > Well, I don't have a firm opinion on this, but yes-or-no-p is an active > function, here. We always leave the minibuffer as the selected window > for this function, certainly when we've a normal minibuffer in the frame. > Why should it be different when we've got a minibuffer-only frame? > > Also, the mechanism by which NF gets the focus in the bug scenario > appears to be random. When the focus starts out in NF and we do C-x C-c, > the focus moves to MBF. This is inconsistent. > > The place where the randomness takes effect is the > > Fredirect_frame_focus (gfocus, frame); > > in do_switch_frame I drew attention to yesterday. Do you have a suggestion for a change there to improve the behavior?
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
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To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame
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Hello, Eli.
On Tue, Jul 05, 2022 at 05:29:21 +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2022 19:43:51 +0000
> > Cc: rudalics@HIDDEN, monnier@HIDDEN, 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> > From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN>
> > > > Quick summary of the problem: On an Emacs with a minibuffer-only frame
> > > > (MBF) and a minibuffer-less frame (NF), with MBF selected with focus,
> > > > type C-x C-c. Instead of the focus remaining in MBF, it's moved to NF.
> > > I lost you right here: can you explain why what you described isn't
> > > TRT?
> > After typing C-x C-c, rather than exiting, this particular Emacs
> > prompts:
> > "Active processes exist; kill them and exit anyway? (yes or no) "
> > on MBF and it opens a window *Process List* on NF.
> Sounds right to me: the frame where Emacs presents some important
> information has focus. If you think this is wrong, please tell why.
Well, I don't have a firm opinion on this, but yes-or-no-p is an active
function, here. We always leave the minibuffer as the selected window
for this function, certainly when we've a normal minibuffer in the frame.
Why should it be different when we've got a minibuffer-only frame?
Also, the mechanism by which NF gets the focus in the bug scenario
appears to be random. When the focus starts out in NF and we do C-x C-c,
the focus moves to MBF. This is inconsistent.
The place where the randomness takes effect is the
Fredirect_frame_focus (gfocus, frame);
in do_switch_frame I drew attention to yesterday.
> > > I mean, after you typed "C-x C-c", the minibuffer (whether it's a
> > > frame or a window) has completed its job, and focus should return to
> > > the "real" frame, which is NF. Right? What am I missing here?
> > After the C-x C-c, and the appearence of the prompt, NF has the focus,
> > uselessly, instead of MBF.
> How is Emacs supposed to know that the user wants only to _look_ at
> the list of processes in this case? In general, moving focus to where
> the information is sounds right to me.
See above.
> > That means having to do a window-manager
> > action to get at the prompt. This is the bug that Martin registered.
> In the scenario you described, I'm not sure it's a bug. In general,
> when Emacs prompts with a question in the minibuffer frame and
> displays some information pertaining to the question in another frame,
> it is not completely clear where should the focus be. E.g., suppose
> that the list of processes was so long that it wouldn't fit in one
> window-full, and you'd need to scroll it to see all of it -- wouldn't
> you want then to have the focus in the frame with the process list?
You might, yes. But I think the irritation in having to switch frames to
NF to look at the long list will be outweighed by the opposite irritation
of always having to switch frames to MBF to answer "yes" or "no".
--
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 56305) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Jul 2022 02:29:40 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jul 04 22:29:40 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48952 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1o8YJo-0001h1-HE for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 04 Jul 2022 22:29:40 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:57036) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1o8YJm-0001gm-8w for 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 04 Jul 2022 22:29:38 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:57306) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1o8YJf-0004R4-Vn; Mon, 04 Jul 2022 22:29:32 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=QkH3Nd8BABBWf3yCJ4sidoPV1pZg+p2Md6KG6kULzcM=; b=m1K2/GP9X6SK A1ACzyo1nlwquuoi0nFPO4+niy+ZZziHt9ty78yeIDksuHSIAMiPRJS7p+fecmbtdLsR/LhlTCxCX Ov5ahrqzPtUqsxxpZ7DuQZs2qxXvfIQSkE7m5WigEIY07a7QPBcK4tTYo5WGw6pjkm3IHPSKfrUfV cJpM32UV/Me1PPFrkzxqJmnT73REEa3ZGoPBExXebH1jjyhpmvTweccsN8t2EnY1GZiB+8ROCiYqY eDg2GR5sV+QWQLrjINPge7J+yS8ZCPZFw4vuOKVovfLlhcWo4sxMIAm40rjWQbkEEa7Z2uhygZ7Nn /Bh/T9lxcC0QXYp86i+37Q==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=2204 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1o8YJf-000737-2E; Mon, 04 Jul 2022 22:29:31 -0400 Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2022 05:29:21 +0300 Message-Id: <83h73w8f7i.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <YsNC93sM8UnXpXzP@ACM> (message from Alan Mackenzie on Mon, 4 Jul 2022 19:43:51 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame References: <3984f6ec-1988-f0ae-d44c-f4b92a202938@HIDDEN> <83o7yb5lqe.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsAuHihIvRl2RW5O@ACM> <de2f43f5-e098-cc82-1472-69e8c29ede5f@HIDDEN> <YsG/R6PieUH5Rle/@ACM> <83bku69nn2.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsM7D2bQPapLEBir@ACM> <83iloc8yzs.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsNC93sM8UnXpXzP@ACM> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56305 Cc: rudalics@HIDDEN, 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2022 19:43:51 +0000 > Cc: rudalics@HIDDEN, monnier@HIDDEN, 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN> > > > > Quick summary of the problem: On an Emacs with a minibuffer-only frame > > > (MBF) and a minibuffer-less frame (NF), with MBF selected with focus, > > > type C-x C-c. Instead of the focus remaining in MBF, it's moved to NF. > > > I lost you right here: can you explain why what you described isn't > > TRT? > > After typing C-x C-c, rather than exiting, this particular Emacs > prompts: > > "Active processes exist; kill them and exit anyway? (yes or no) " > > on MBF and it opens a window *Process List* on NF. Sounds right to me: the frame where Emacs presents some important information has focus. If you think this is wrong, please tell why. > > I mean, after you typed "C-x C-c", the minibuffer (whether it's a > > frame or a window) has completed its job, and focus should return to > > the "real" frame, which is NF. Right? What am I missing here? > > After the C-x C-c, and the appearence of the prompt, NF has the focus, > uselessly, instead of MBF. How is Emacs supposed to know that the user wants only to _look_ at the list of processes in this case? In general, moving focus to where the information is sounds right to me. > That means having to do a window-manager > action to get at the prompt. This is the bug that Martin registered. In the scenario you described, I'm not sure it's a bug. In general, when Emacs prompts with a question in the minibuffer frame and displays some information pertaining to the question in another frame, it is not completely clear where should the focus be. E.g., suppose that the list of processes was so long that it wouldn't fit in one window-full, and you'd need to scroll it to see all of it -- wouldn't you want then to have the focus in the frame with the process list?
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To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame
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Hello, Stefan.
On Mon, Jul 04, 2022 at 15:46:05 -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> > Quick summary of the problem: On an Emacs with a minibuffer-only frame
> > (MBF) and a minibuffer-less frame (NF), with MBF selected with focus,
> > type C-x C-c. Instead of the focus remaining in MBF, it's moved to NF.
> Hmmm... for me `C-x C-c` basically quits Emacs so the focus afterwards
> is ... "nowhere"?
> What is this `C-x C-c` supposed to do?
This particular C-x C-c puts the following prompt into the minibuffer:
"Active processes exist; kill them and exit anyway? (Yes or no) "
..
The problem is that instead of being in MBF, the focus has moved to NF.,
obstructing the action of typing "yes" or "no".
Martin's directions for this bug are basically:
Start Emacs with $ emacs -Q -l ~/rudalics3.el
where that file contains exactly:
(setq use-dialog-box nil)
(setq default-frame-alist '((minibuffer . nil)))
(shell)
> Stefan
--
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame
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> Quick summary of the problem: On an Emacs with a minibuffer-only frame
> (MBF) and a minibuffer-less frame (NF), with MBF selected with focus,
> type C-x C-c. Instead of the focus remaining in MBF, it's moved to NF.
Hmmm... for me `C-x C-c` basically quits Emacs so the focus afterwards
is ... "nowhere"?
What is this `C-x C-c` supposed to do?
Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
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To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame
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Hello, Eli.
On Mon, Jul 04, 2022 at 22:21:59 +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2022 19:10:07 +0000
> > Cc: rudalics@HIDDEN, Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>,
> > 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, acm@HIDDEN
> > From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN>
> > Quick summary of the problem: On an Emacs with a minibuffer-only frame
> > (MBF) and a minibuffer-less frame (NF), with MBF selected with focus,
> > type C-x C-c. Instead of the focus remaining in MBF, it's moved to NF.
> I lost you right here: can you explain why what you described isn't
> TRT?
After typing C-x C-c, rather than exiting, this particular Emacs
prompts:
"Active processes exist; kill them and exit anyway? (yes or no) "
on MBF and it opens a window *Process List* on NF.
> I mean, after you typed "C-x C-c", the minibuffer (whether it's a
> frame or a window) has completed its job, and focus should return to
> the "real" frame, which is NF. Right? What am I missing here?
After the C-x C-c, and the appearence of the prompt, NF has the focus,
uselessly, instead of MBF. That means having to do a window-manager
action to get at the prompt. This is the bug that Martin registered.
--
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 56305) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Jul 2022 19:22:17 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jul 04 15:22:17 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48662 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1o8ReD-0007BT-7w for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 04 Jul 2022 15:22:17 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:56574) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1o8ReA-0007BG-UJ for 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 04 Jul 2022 15:22:16 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:39180) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1o8Re4-0004Lh-Qi; Mon, 04 Jul 2022 15:22:08 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=zaPpUvANvtNo7BKChaauNdsagrm1MnnccbTMPTsh5Gg=; b=CRZ+f84+WNqT 1+IdfX9DvO9UEVVISpIEk8qYsGWWvcj+IY3OE/z55WhraJvIC9SbRfc+X/7s/5eiwcUqPfJSHh4KD lA9mZWi7Y3BGSNS5UgCHJcKKbq8ITgcNCvGK1d3V+K8WzeR+WvN5GPs0vpwJGqUCedxpBdX7trTre UpUNfpJH0Xsix4/Imkgq3fhjhzCCBPcxwYuz4tPgY/KmawTFlZelkKG5IdmCPErIotAIIQFQqM74s 4fmuCQwjqMSvASfaRRJ3KF3IbBpTQSdsF8ul5K2m9gsc/3azb6DBdFYpG4fz4TTK050Ej4HzJ0a/K 2Qw/jgnOx5bQp715gp/avA==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=3953 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1o8Re4-0006Uf-A0; Mon, 04 Jul 2022 15:22:08 -0400 Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2022 22:21:59 +0300 Message-Id: <83iloc8yzs.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <YsM7D2bQPapLEBir@ACM> (message from Alan Mackenzie on Mon, 4 Jul 2022 19:10:07 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame References: <3984f6ec-1988-f0ae-d44c-f4b92a202938@HIDDEN> <83o7yb5lqe.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsAuHihIvRl2RW5O@ACM> <de2f43f5-e098-cc82-1472-69e8c29ede5f@HIDDEN> <YsG/R6PieUH5Rle/@ACM> <83bku69nn2.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsM7D2bQPapLEBir@ACM> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56305 Cc: rudalics@HIDDEN, 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@HIDDEN, acm@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2022 19:10:07 +0000 > Cc: rudalics@HIDDEN, Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>, > 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, acm@HIDDEN > From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN> > > Quick summary of the problem: On an Emacs with a minibuffer-only frame > (MBF) and a minibuffer-less frame (NF), with MBF selected with focus, > type C-x C-c. Instead of the focus remaining in MBF, it's moved to NF. I lost you right here: can you explain why what you described isn't TRT? I mean, after you typed "C-x C-c", the minibuffer (whether it's a frame or a window) has completed its job, and focus should return to the "real" frame, which is NF. Right? What am I missing here?
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Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2022 19:10:07 +0000
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame
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[ Adding Stefan M., because he's had experience of this sort of thing. ]
Hello, Eli, Martin, and Stefan.
On Sun, Jul 03, 2022 at 19:17:21 +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2022 16:09:43 +0000
> > Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, acm@HIDDEN
> > From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN>
> > While debugging, is there any easy way of determining which frame
> > currently has the focus?
> Yes, call x_get_focus_frame (or just examine the value of
> FRAME_DISPLAY_INFO (f)->x_focus_frame manually).
Thank you indeed. That was very helpful. I've spent several hours in
gdb since these recent posts.
Quick summary of the problem: On an Emacs with a minibuffer-only frame
(MBF) and a minibuffer-less frame (NF), with MBF selected with focus,
type C-x C-c. Instead of the focus remaining in MBF, it's moved to NF.
I've pretty much tracked down what is happening, though I don't
understand the last bit. Line ~71 in do_switch_frame (frame.c) is this:
Fredirect_frame_focus (gfocus, frame);
At this point in time gfocus is NF and frame is also NF. NF's frame
focus had earlier been redirected to MBF. When Fredirect_frame_focus is
executed, NF becomes redirected to itself, and also becomes the focussed
frame (otherwise known as, sort of, the "highlighted frame"). This
becoming the focussed frame is the problem.
A few lines higher up in do_switch_frame, there is a comment which
purports to explain this shifting of the frame focus, namely:
/* If a frame's focus has been redirected toward the currently
selected frame, we should change the redirection to point to the
newly selected frame. This means that if the focus is redirected
from a minibufferless frame to a surrogate minibuffer frame, we
can use `other-window' to switch between all the frames using
that minibuffer frame, and the focus redirection will follow us
around. */
I don't understand this at all well. What it describes is indeed what
happens. But if NF has been redirected to MBF, that surely means that
when NF is the selected frame with focus, any characters typed will
appear in MBF. Not the other way around.
What happens to NF's focus, which previously pointed at MBF, is that it
points to NF itself. This is as described in the comment. It is wrong.
Surely what the comment should say, and what should happen is that if
there is a frame switch from NF to NF2, then NF2 should become
redirected to MBF. No?
What am I missing?
Apologies for this post being somewhat dense.
--
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 56305) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Jul 2022 16:17:41 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jul 03 12:17:41 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45433 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1o82I0-0006I7-Ra for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Jul 2022 12:17:41 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:59458) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1o82Hz-0006Ht-G6 for 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Jul 2022 12:17:40 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:40000) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1o82Ht-0004i7-Hp; Sun, 03 Jul 2022 12:17:33 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=X/FUlP5VUDg6HqqtVCNOwmHSCe3QxSIF8KOCktf127E=; b=kEatXZN84ZrF WrcG5c+aT8xF+m19jeDE1J4MrLvwR9R0vSp4UkGVJJ4rEmwdB3Mrt9PBnU7HEPzUX9P95rdYQoUTo M75qAlPWAnoY8Xswn9ECteJ4SYZFufU64JPyuf80rV1Zl24BwVE0E7DJtHldnNZVDC3+ilkSboChh Z7T2ew7jhC92im39JCqcF8vOmgH5pG+WSWvhcJBq8/LhGlq3Hty14i+qSIpY4eNd1JMMO4REb10aT 8MAJ9074RmDasbVw/fnE62H7kIVVhVxRFXz4pfzU44OjOchUE+BEH6G1G73iIWF2qld0iVA0Q0fKd 0J102EFwlHfe8gWkcnYXrg==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=3323 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1o82Ht-0005FL-1m; Sun, 03 Jul 2022 12:17:33 -0400 Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2022 19:17:21 +0300 Message-Id: <83bku69nn2.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <YsG/R6PieUH5Rle/@ACM> (message from Alan Mackenzie on Sun, 3 Jul 2022 16:09:43 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame References: <3984f6ec-1988-f0ae-d44c-f4b92a202938@HIDDEN> <83o7yb5lqe.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsAuHihIvRl2RW5O@ACM> <de2f43f5-e098-cc82-1472-69e8c29ede5f@HIDDEN> <YsG/R6PieUH5Rle/@ACM> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56305 Cc: rudalics@HIDDEN, 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, acm@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2022 16:09:43 +0000 > Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, acm@HIDDEN > From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN> > > While debugging, is there any easy way of determining which frame > currently has the focus? Yes, call x_get_focus_frame (or just examine the value of FRAME_DISPLAY_INFO (f)->x_focus_frame manually).
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 56305) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Jul 2022 16:09:53 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jul 03 12:09:53 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45420 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1o82AS-00064d-Qz for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Jul 2022 12:09:53 -0400 Received: from colin.muc.de ([193.149.48.1]:29459 helo=mail.muc.de) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <acm@HIDDEN>) id 1o82AQ-00064M-NE for 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Jul 2022 12:09:51 -0400 Received: (qmail 75946 invoked by uid 3782); 3 Jul 2022 16:09:44 -0000 Received: from acm.muc.de (p2e5d51d4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [46.93.81.212]) (using STARTTLS) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sun, 03 Jul 2022 18:09:43 +0200 Received: (qmail 5261 invoked by uid 1000); 3 Jul 2022 16:09:43 -0000 Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2022 16:09:43 +0000 To: martin rudalics <rudalics@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame Message-ID: <YsG/R6PieUH5Rle/@ACM> References: <3984f6ec-1988-f0ae-d44c-f4b92a202938@HIDDEN> <83o7yb5lqe.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsAuHihIvRl2RW5O@ACM> <de2f43f5-e098-cc82-1472-69e8c29ede5f@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <de2f43f5-e098-cc82-1472-69e8c29ede5f@HIDDEN> X-Submission-Agent: TMDA/1.3.x (Ph3nix) From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN> X-Primary-Address: acm@HIDDEN X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56305 Cc: acm@HIDDEN, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hello, Martin and Eli. On Sun, Jul 03, 2022 at 10:16:04 +0200, martin rudalics wrote: > > I don't understand why the current bug is happening; focus switching in > > Emacs is complicated. However, the following patch is, at least, a > > workaround for the problem. Should I commit it? > At least here this raises the minibuffer frame above the normal frame > which may obscure the contents of the *Process List* window and thus > again force the user to use the mouse or a window manager shortcut. OK. How about using Fx_focus_frame instead? (No, I don't know what to give the function for NOACTIVATE.). This, however, would still just be a workaround. > In either case, it's not how Emacs 26 and Emacs 28.1 behaved. The > correct behavior is to make sure that the minibuffer frame is selected > and gets keyboard input while the normal frame remains fully visible. I don't think that's relevant. At the time the recursive edit for the minibuffer is started, the minibuffer frame IS the selected frame. It just doesn't have the window-manager focus. I've managed to track down the cause of this, partly, i.e. it's the change to gui_consider_frame_title (xdisp.c) where the trouble's happening. More particularly, it's in unwind_format_mode_line, L34, where there's: Fselect_window (old_window, Qt); .. If this line is commented out, the problem doesn't happen. But select-window is not meant to move the focus, is it? This is not mentioned in the doc string (Not even "This function doesn't affect the window-manager focus"), and it possibly should be. While debugging, is there any easy way of determining which frame currently has the focus? This would make it far easier to work out what's going on. At the moment, I think that the workaround with Fx_focus_frame, if it works, might be the best fix for Emacs 28.2. But there's a deeper problem buried here somewhere, which ought to be fixed properly in master. > martin -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 56305) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Jul 2022 08:16:19 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jul 03 04:16:19 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43241 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1o7umA-0005Am-UO for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Jul 2022 04:16:19 -0400 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.21]:44599) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <rudalics@HIDDEN>) id 1o7um7-0005AW-H8 for 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Jul 2022 04:16:17 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1656836167; bh=cX6kUoyilP8ZjH1H29HGb8HQy1N+NdOTxkXv00pLSec=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Date:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:In-Reply-To; b=Cx52NXmcWP8cFa7vML6BZvvnuHxh+zw3bS30Hv5Q1yDbM01EU4kA/kbYbUccoAziU U5clYPkHx4OIM3zFZSj7N8cLPH8fmoXXIrPDaSKfJQc7P0Eh4PDusQSbCzCRPVlC2a qrWqAOIyIZPo/XBzxKNQILRFyuY9EcRLvntGC9BQ= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [192.168.1.102] ([213.142.96.52]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx105 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MRTNF-1nvSZ033Yb-00NRoP; Sun, 03 Jul 2022 10:16:07 +0200 Message-ID: <de2f43f5-e098-cc82-1472-69e8c29ede5f@HIDDEN> Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2022 10:16:04 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame Content-Language: en-US To: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> References: <3984f6ec-1988-f0ae-d44c-f4b92a202938@HIDDEN> <83o7yb5lqe.fsf@HIDDEN> <YsAuHihIvRl2RW5O@ACM> From: martin rudalics <rudalics@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <YsAuHihIvRl2RW5O@ACM> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:x7qPglKMJRBz4OpH215X85S8yqP0WsQFkk5oEyul4CpHRTx9lrj KOhMxOmAsYmfE6Aqu+DeHeKfsOpC0mTQLCFagcv56PBiT5HyOnRQrJ+c8gRIIWPTwiYZHba szk9j2blf+Lug1WpremSdRz2p0cEDt6dFSAzKNtVuZcXEaM4A5yBmqSu5i6NnDqR8TWF2Zl zdIn5YmHNE00xpZdWKN+Q== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:8WWBaEEKPVc=:2IzGdmEgYMpoy7Nq8IVlbV xzzNwKu0tc+uPKFJjHDYCe2jixl4BwHuLkejkcMSYenfnI7X8RhoaI9+JhZSY+jjH5+SBAc8z 1p+VVUvDz/mjEKWVOQiwismLcYtX3WeCuUxnCqZu2Fv7PZNaNGeA0CzwyyxDLiEw8kg71Qxjn OUmbWSrk+hJS74fwctW1yqi3fRe5Gs0dmvfX17AFnuj/R0Adn6IaA5k2pJK2kwHN51YDHkDL7 DjI6IQ7vZZ5iKjPtuos6vnXog/n7YIqcsBjZmoX9tVxmFUYKzmUxXLf7kDeOH2Y3jgiCxLDgS gI3h03hdu1OeDokn4xJGGgUwpao5VWIqR3g5OLgEzFR5JtluNItwZoOklqn56jj0Hp7ts+qie NRYo8AqyqeTuQuHfGa4ZHEi7taN+TDJyVjci8/mpbqc05WtHaxXov0xqGoiTsD6TFXTcRFBEB H80G3hzy5XPnn0veGnyr25zLPUjcE/z6FE1UUddwhocHXkjlO8d3OoIJxRmnF7MwjFt3Mx8KC DyqJq+uS8CsgN/jlQpWJtVJKABqD8D+ZySb3gkwpGv6qEUH6neSrp20Pxr4tD4PytYPIldU2d ClnymyKItFfbsiLVVdzZ4yC/OiF+7M7hpuVnOuZFavGTG4TsR0f+XdjzruLhtaLhsQvfjD3Kc irejCofcM8s1NMeBB1suNWXoRk14zN2mRPUOzVblgMLaHQZXoCsQgtsGprkbsBz4aO0jaor12 hGC/KG+XbXxFc/Al6Y8L3Gt1WcuUZy0qcHb1exp21zcTTgySOcXF7z07qwXIo1voMik+KTZCc L46kMvCtJTL74kTlexyUl3KDTeEiVypvyl4W2ueJRpCGJhreHkItOtw/v1UT0B7iFQv2zRu+y Wfuwu3sb7ahpmUlpuINQUlCz22ACxDUZx438jAeukrGX9EY5wygp/frPFIm9op14uLMgF7myC pNVTVYzgW7QLiVtvStA72s4LKXKzrBZKNzxIXZKDP9U+TQADTzFvLVZHAPH7b3HcZYwWSbEDi Uk06N5OLsoGzpP6QSZ91R+yl34opv1ghRKTNGnxyKo9DRCWiQCYcnz5D4wgxEt/TK+jjJVApw +UnhyUrc+QPxz659sLpFRClPkQQBdRslm9cPEqs9hx5fukjau+64fumWw== X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56305 Cc: 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > I don't understand why the current bug is happening; focus switching in > Emacs is complicated. However, the following patch is, at least, a > workaround for the problem. Should I commit it? At least here this raises the minibuffer frame above the normal frame which may obscure the contents of the *Process List* window and thus again force the user to use the mouse or a window manager shortcut. In either case, it's not how Emacs 26 and Emacs 28.1 behaved. The correct behavior is to make sure that the minibuffer frame is selected and gets keyboard input while the normal frame remains fully visible. martin
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 56305) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Jul 2022 11:38:16 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jul 02 07:38:16 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39984 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1o7bS4-0001WS-0m for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jul 2022 07:38:16 -0400 Received: from colin.muc.de ([193.149.48.1]:39766 helo=mail.muc.de) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <acm@HIDDEN>) id 1o7bS1-0001WE-I6 for 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jul 2022 07:38:14 -0400 Received: (qmail 57021 invoked by uid 3782); 2 Jul 2022 11:38:07 -0000 Received: from acm.muc.de (p4fe15928.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [79.225.89.40]) (using STARTTLS) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sat, 02 Jul 2022 13:38:06 +0200 Received: (qmail 13843 invoked by uid 1000); 2 Jul 2022 11:38:06 -0000 Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 11:38:06 +0000 To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame Message-ID: <YsAuHihIvRl2RW5O@ACM> References: <3984f6ec-1988-f0ae-d44c-f4b92a202938@HIDDEN> <83o7yb5lqe.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <83o7yb5lqe.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Submission-Agent: TMDA/1.3.x (Ph3nix) From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN> X-Primary-Address: acm@HIDDEN X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56305 Cc: martin rudalics <rudalics@HIDDEN>, 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, acm@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hello, Eli and Martin. On Wed, Jun 29, 2022 at 22:10:49 +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2022 19:54:44 +0200 > > From: martin rudalics <rudalics@HIDDEN> > > With emacs -Q --load "~/mini.el" which contains the three lines > > (setq use-dialog-box nil) > > (setq default-frame-alist '((minibuffer . nil))) > > (shell) > > and type C-x C-c in the minibuffer frame. This asks a 'yes-or-no-p' > > question in the minibuffer frame but selects the *Process List* window > > on the other frame. > > FWICT this worked correctly until Emacs 26, was broken in Emacs 27, > > returned to work in Emacs 28.1 and is now broken on both, release and > > master branch, again. > Alan, could you please look into this? Emacs 28.2 is about to start > pretest. At the point in read_minibuf where recursive_edit_1 is called, all the frame and window variables appear to be in order - things like minibuf_window, current_buffer, selected_window, selected_frame, ... What is not in order is the window system focus, which in the bug scenario is on the "normal" frame rather than the minibuffer frame. As a matter of interest, if the C-x C-c command is invoked from the "normal" frame, things work correctly. As a matter of interest, when I moved from the "normal" frame to the minibuffer frame with <alt><tab> (or clicking on the MB frame), there wasn't the expected call to do_switch_frame (). I don't understand why the current bug is happening; focus switching in Emacs is complicated. However, the following patch is, at least, a workaround for the problem. Should I commit it? diff --git a/src/minibuf.c b/src/minibuf.c index 0fc7f2caa1..5480d1f2af 100644 --- a/src/minibuf.c +++ b/src/minibuf.c @@ -896,6 +896,10 @@ read_minibuf (Lisp_Object map, Lisp_Object initial, Lisp_Object prompt, /* Don't allow the user to undo past this point. */ bset_undo_list (current_buffer, Qnil); + /* Ensure that the minibuffer frame has the window-system focus. + This is sometimes needed for minibuffer-only frames. */ + call2 (Qselect_frame_set_input_focus, mini_frame, Qt); + recursive_edit_1 (); /* If cursor is on the minibuffer line, > Thanks. -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
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Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame
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Hello, Eli and Martin.
On Wed, Jun 29, 2022 at 22:10:49 +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2022 19:54:44 +0200
> > From: martin rudalics <rudalics@HIDDEN>
> > With emacs -Q --load "~/mini.el" which contains the three lines
> > (setq use-dialog-box nil)
> > (setq default-frame-alist '((minibuffer . nil)))
> > (shell)
> > and type C-x C-c in the minibuffer frame. This asks a 'yes-or-no-p'
> > question in the minibuffer frame but selects the *Process List* window
> > on the other frame.
> > FWICT this worked correctly until Emacs 26, was broken in Emacs 27,
> > returned to work in Emacs 28.1 and is now broken on both, release and
> > master branch, again.
> Alan, could you please look into this? Emacs 28.2 is about to start
> pretest.
In your (Martin's) scenario, the yes-or-no-p seems to work just before
the following commit, but goes into an infinite loop after it:
commit dfa3e6f424b20fe27d9041b2ce7d69811df5d8cd
Author: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN>
Date: Fri May 20 20:18:38 2022 +0000
Restore the Fselect_window call in gui_consider_frame_title.
There's something suspicious in that commit, namely:
* src/frame.c (do_switch_frame): When the selected window in the target frame
is the mini-window, switch away from this window unless there is a valid
minibuffer there.
Maybe that's a red herring, but it might be relevant.
I'll look at this in more detail tomorrow.
> Thanks.
--
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 56305) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Jun 2022 10:35:51 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jun 30 06:35:51 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:32978 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1o6rWZ-00085T-Cg for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 30 Jun 2022 06:35:51 -0400 Received: from colin.muc.de ([193.149.48.1]:17800 helo=mail.muc.de) by debbugs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <acm@HIDDEN>) id 1o6rWW-00085F-AP for 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 30 Jun 2022 06:35:49 -0400 Received: (qmail 64568 invoked by uid 3782); 30 Jun 2022 10:35:42 -0000 Received: from acm.muc.de (p4fe15adf.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [79.225.90.223]) (using STARTTLS) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 30 Jun 2022 12:35:41 +0200 Received: (qmail 4414 invoked by uid 1000); 30 Jun 2022 10:35:41 -0000 Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2022 10:35:41 +0000 To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame Message-ID: <Yr18fZ/mEQ6q2Q9+@ACM> References: <3984f6ec-1988-f0ae-d44c-f4b92a202938@HIDDEN> <83o7yb5lqe.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <83o7yb5lqe.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Submission-Agent: TMDA/1.3.x (Ph3nix) From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN> X-Primary-Address: acm@HIDDEN X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56305 Cc: martin rudalics <rudalics@HIDDEN>, 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hello, Eli. On Wed, Jun 29, 2022 at 22:10:49 +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2022 19:54:44 +0200 > > From: martin rudalics <rudalics@HIDDEN> > > With emacs -Q --load "~/mini.el" which contains the three lines > > (setq use-dialog-box nil) > > (setq default-frame-alist '((minibuffer . nil))) > > (shell) > > and type C-x C-c in the minibuffer frame. This asks a 'yes-or-no-p' > > question in the minibuffer frame but selects the *Process List* window > > on the other frame. > > FWICT this worked correctly until Emacs 26, was broken in Emacs 27, > > returned to work in Emacs 28.1 and is now broken on both, release and > > master branch, again. > Alan, could you please look into this? Emacs 28.2 is about to start > pretest. Will do, yes. > Thanks. -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 56305) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Jun 2022 19:10:51 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jun 29 15:10:51 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60255 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1o6d5O-0002OH-Pb for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Jun 2022 15:10:51 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:46616) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1o6d5N-0002O5-5s for 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 29 Jun 2022 15:10:49 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:35156) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1o6d5H-0004iB-Ai; Wed, 29 Jun 2022 15:10:43 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=dUJ3ojvh8bPuUEV4udxtrrOKl8HXBDrmoARWHF1LX/s=; b=PWBnGnfYj62H KH+BfJ+g3idcStlpEgY3305CvkkoBO9Bh0Ltmoqq1H3709jfK/SXMiN/6DE28s2mBF0nEhbmjHqME iqgrN4NwA9F/N9S74Ju2eqPYgvxWRKY7iFzPDWlDTso/JfVxOpN2AYZSA2uoCPjmhBbBUMhMInlVv WqIUFt2wQy3hBBhgGexRF5FwXLdJSRSBP2J774VR5BD6cOHZYsPk8DoDzAliZNr/6RlbXMcaL97b7 Hh+hOF8XGZ1Y5XUztwhphHNzYThDbSAfZooeY+dPrnpG7O7kef1j4NLIYjVW03fMT3PsRPXWnEGSZ ylVVIds+b89KA+WEmP8LkQ==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=1895 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1o6d5F-0006e9-HH; Wed, 29 Jun 2022 15:10:43 -0400 Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2022 22:10:49 +0300 Message-Id: <83o7yb5lqe.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: martin rudalics <rudalics@HIDDEN>, Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <3984f6ec-1988-f0ae-d44c-f4b92a202938@HIDDEN> (message from martin rudalics on Wed, 29 Jun 2022 19:54:44 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#56305: 29.0.50; 'yes-or-no-p' deselects minibuffer frame References: <3984f6ec-1988-f0ae-d44c-f4b92a202938@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56305 Cc: 56305 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2022 19:54:44 +0200 > From: martin rudalics <rudalics@HIDDEN> > > With emacs -Q --load "~/mini.el" which contains the three lines > > (setq use-dialog-box nil) > (setq default-frame-alist '((minibuffer . nil))) > (shell) > > and type C-x C-c in the minibuffer frame. This asks a 'yes-or-no-p' > question in the minibuffer frame but selects the *Process List* window > on the other frame. > > FWICT this worked correctly until Emacs 26, was broken in Emacs 27, > returned to work in Emacs 28.1 and is now broken on both, release and > master branch, again. Alan, could you please look into this? Emacs 28.2 is about to start pretest. Thanks.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
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envelope-from=rudalics@HIDDEN; helo=mout.gmx.net X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--) With emacs -Q --load "~/mini.el" which contains the three lines (setq use-dialog-box nil) (setq default-frame-alist '((minibuffer . nil))) (shell) and type C-x C-c in the minibuffer frame. This asks a 'yes-or-no-p' question in the minibuffer frame but selects the *Process List* window on the other frame. FWICT this worked correctly until Emacs 26, was broken in Emacs 27, returned to work in Emacs 28.1 and is now broken on both, release and master branch, again. In GNU Emacs 29.0.50 (build 10, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.24.5, cairo version 1.16.0) of 2022-06-29 built on restno Repository revision: 60af986f38e98fde3e17005e49d175c061a1a29a Repository branch: master Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.12004000 System Description: Debian GNU/Linux 10 (buster) Configured using: 'configure --with-gif=ifavailable --with-tiff=ifavailable --with-gnutls=no --without-pop --enable-gcc-warnings=warn-only --enable-checking=yes,glyphs --enable-check-lisp-object-type=yes 'CFLAGS=-O0 -g3 -no-pie -Wno-missing-braces'' Configured features: CAIRO DBUS FREETYPE GIF GLIB GSETTINGS HARFBUZZ JPEG LIBSELINUX MODULES NOTIFY INOTIFY PDUMPER PNG SECCOMP SOUND THREADS TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS X11 XDBE XIM XINPUT2 XPM GTK3 ZLIB Important settings: value of $LANG: de_AT.utf8 value of $XMODIFIERS: @im=ibus locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix Major mode: Lisp Interaction Minor modes in effect: tooltip-mode: t global-eldoc-mode: t eldoc-mode: t show-paren-mode: t electric-indent-mode: t mouse-wheel-mode: t tool-bar-mode: t menu-bar-mode: t file-name-shadow-mode: t global-font-lock-mode: t font-lock-mode: t blink-cursor-mode: t line-number-mode: t indent-tabs-mode: t transient-mark-mode: t auto-composition-mode: t auto-encryption-mode: t auto-compression-mode: t Load-path shadows: None found. Features: (shadow sort mail-extr emacsbug message mailcap yank-media puny dired dired-loaddefs rfc822 mml mml-sec password-cache epa derived epg rfc6068 epg-config gnus-util text-property-search time-date subr-x mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231 mailabbrev gmm-utils mailheader cl-loaddefs cl-lib sendmail rfc2047 rfc2045 ietf-drums mm-util mail-prsvr mail-utils rmc iso-transl tooltip eldoc paren electric uniquify ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type elisp-mode mwheel term/x-win x-win term/common-win x-dnd tool-bar dnd fontset image regexp-opt fringe tabulated-list replace newcomment text-mode lisp-mode prog-mode register page tab-bar menu-bar rfn-eshadow isearch easymenu timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax font-core term/tty-colors frame minibuffer nadvice seq simple cl-generic indonesian philippine cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese eucjp-ms cp51932 hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese composite emoji-zwj charscript charprop case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help abbrev obarray oclosure cl-preloaded button loaddefs faces cus-face macroexp files window text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget keymap hashtable-print-readable backquote threads dbusbind inotify dynamic-setting system-font-setting font-render-setting cairo move-toolbar gtk x-toolkit xinput2 x multi-tty make-network-process emacs) Memory information: ((conses 16 35654 7389) (symbols 48 5036 1) (strings 32 13288 1313) (string-bytes 1 426460) (vectors 16 9152) (vector-slots 8 144810 8448) (floats 8 22 17) (intervals 56 212 0) (buffers 992 10))
martin rudalics <rudalics@HIDDEN>:bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.
Full text available.bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56305; Package emacs.
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