Received: (at 56401) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Jul 2022 10:40:25 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 06 06:40:25 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52593 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1o92SH-0003Ll-1t for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2022 06:40:25 -0400 Received: from mail-pf1-f172.google.com ([209.85.210.172]:39523) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <stefankangas@HIDDEN>) id 1o92SE-0003LR-Qi for 56401 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2022 06:40:24 -0400 Received: by mail-pf1-f172.google.com with SMTP id j3so1360737pfb.6 for <56401 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 06 Jul 2022 03:40:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=lNeJTxVkkYaS7kuBRaZrKQLsf4PU6hYnPjk+3jlBID4=; b=eA1thg5GuIoOSfSSZ8Ax9zX/wIoHJs0BykDhAkMWeblDtLVFenS3HW1CyixW+4rALk gN67vE5rACypoe3szswd6boc/s1BEXsd4So0rBa68y1rYHi2J935Lbu1muTa2DSw53Qh /GaKLsJ2RIISoMh8wZcbiTl9nY4dao5ETQ48t4Js+UEaDA7SDeOKCQme2jUzfLGqIvZM J2MfYXiApxIXzn3kjiChbFaQzYGQ7JiKeRq2Q2y0LghiJ2WtFvb7rGhNVvdQgOwfPkkI d3VbmwcTNUNYv3QVLnv8xyZf3/D1qYutC7T4egKmP5LjqjHqChJuUdKZbDZ4SVcg6Sjq CG/w== X-Gm-Message-State: AJIora8EqJreRTioNGGamnJ+iA5QBUz9HKNvacP2DTlMAHBfuQWD2xzJ 5puQH+f/zH5p15TFSHTTD1lZbTf7cSwk8HzUQc0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGRyM1svMDYiTuvay7HxsCeUx4fy90/RZnGWXbvAtAyuZ8c9ZcNQ/Yq3HKH1ePIuH0mwQc0HlbirQeGOjE/B7eaYz+8= X-Received: by 2002:aa7:8e17:0:b0:528:9f8d:ad38 with SMTP id c23-20020aa78e17000000b005289f8dad38mr5611321pfr.4.1657104016930; Wed, 06 Jul 2022 03:40:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <CADwFkmkWtOjsQ6EdpYtuK5U=cTHNaiDGQSB2Aa_0q91QnbqiVA@HIDDEN> <87r12zze9k.fsf@HIDDEN> <e4b27347d9bdc8ac2c4e9acce23c946c@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <e4b27347d9bdc8ac2c4e9acce23c946c@HIDDEN> From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2022 12:40:05 +0200 Message-ID: <CADwFkmmmWpEK_EUYGUNqyJq3+h6_EH+7zpk4CR2pw77s_Qs-zw@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#56401: "Case folding" should be called "ignore case" To: Phil Sainty <psainty@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56401 Cc: 56401 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) Phil Sainty <psainty@HIDDEN> writes: > I agree that "fold" isn't intuitive to newcomers, but I also think > it's good to try to limit the number of different terms used to > express a concept. Agreed, though I would add that it isn't intuitive to old users either (case in point: me). So let's start moving in the right direction.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56401; Package emacs.
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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 944fb10beb8e59ffaf66a38894fac6f7; Wed, 06 Jul 2022 09:36:11 +0000 (UTC) From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN> To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#56401: "Case folding" should be called "ignore case" References: <CADwFkmkWtOjsQ6EdpYtuK5U=cTHNaiDGQSB2Aa_0q91QnbqiVA@HIDDEN> <87r12zze9k.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2022 17:36:05 +0800 In-Reply-To: <87r12zze9k.fsf@HIDDEN> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Tue, 05 Jul 2022 18:59:51 +0200") Message-ID: <87fsje7fcq.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.91 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.20381 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Content-Length: 279 X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56401 Cc: 56401 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> writes: > In any case, I think renaming all the functions and variables here would > not be worth the churn -- there's quite a lot of them. +1. For what it's worth, the glossary in the Emacs manual also tells you what "Case Folding" means.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56401; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 56401) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Jul 2022 04:38:10 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jul 06 00:38:09 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52032 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1o8wnh-0005QV-OM for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2022 00:38:09 -0400 Received: from smtp-4.orcon.net.nz ([60.234.4.59]:50915) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <psainty@HIDDEN>) id 1o8wnd-0005QL-W2 for 56401 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 06 Jul 2022 00:38:08 -0400 Received: from [10.253.37.70] (port=47548 helo=webmail.orcon.net.nz) by smtp-4.orcon.net.nz with esmtpa (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <psainty@HIDDEN>) id 1o8wnS-0007Vq-VV; Wed, 06 Jul 2022 16:37:55 +1200 Received: from ip-116-251-140-135.kinect.net.nz ([116.251.140.135]) via [10.253.37.253] by webmail.orcon.net.nz with HTTP (HTTP/1.1 POST); Wed, 06 Jul 2022 16:37:54 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2022 16:37:54 +1200 From: Phil Sainty <psainty@HIDDEN> To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#56401: "Case folding" should be called "ignore case" In-Reply-To: <87r12zze9k.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <CADwFkmkWtOjsQ6EdpYtuK5U=cTHNaiDGQSB2Aa_0q91QnbqiVA@HIDDEN> <87r12zze9k.fsf@HIDDEN> Message-ID: <e4b27347d9bdc8ac2c4e9acce23c946c@HIDDEN> X-Sender: psainty@HIDDEN User-Agent: Orcon Webmail X-GeoIP: -- X-Spam_score: -2.9 X-Spam_score_int: -28 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56401 Cc: 56401 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 2022-07-06 04:59, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote: > Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> writes: >> The "case fold" terminology is too technical and not very >> user-friendly. In other software, in most user-facing contexts, >> it is called "ignore case". "Ignore case" is in fact the precise term used in the "Default search options" menu, so we do already cater to newcomers in that way. "Case" isn't the only thing that can be "folded" though, and I don't think "ignore" is always a good verb. I don't think `replace-char-fold' should be `replace-char-ignore'. OTOH we do already have more than one term for this, unfortunately. "lax-whitespace" should probably use the "fold" terminology too? I agree that "fold" isn't intuitive to newcomers, but I also think it's good to try to limit the number of different terms used to express a concept. -Phil
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56401; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 56401) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Jul 2022 17:26:31 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jul 05 13:26:31 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51578 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1o8mJj-0007QJ-5K for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 Jul 2022 13:26:31 -0400 Received: from mail-pg1-f181.google.com ([209.85.215.181]:36817) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <stefankangas@HIDDEN>) id 1o8mJh-0007Q5-81 for 56401 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 Jul 2022 13:26:29 -0400 Received: by mail-pg1-f181.google.com with SMTP id s206so11970842pgs.3 for <56401 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 05 Jul 2022 10:26:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Pzi59/PA03v5vF8ZWXQQoRjJg8SIKR3nvFQZ91qKlDw=; b=1ipdila+tMM5Ln7bTgJzS6wfvWrbiTwE2PmuNHeciNkVNXD71TVDzAf6/jlHkViMLc UKSygR9wJCkZCBdEfj2CJ3vQGgS+GJ+1vdTHrjKg9mIiYFdHNkFkGghtF+a9nWZA2whu 7vD+hi+WzIuQaOBLZn9E4gMvtb0/T0HavyVQObGML4oPzKFVM2ofsZ7j+EXW2FVFE5hR UXIYs9UC6xUfewQ12yls3z3KKWnhjhrZnZC6HWWY9ppsngr6HG3ojkVCRSO/XXusB6WI Sir5P3jm4yQlyjHS155uD+JpWoFxIAXWiGDiw6PLHDnAlITKlkcCnldRIjb0VOzkLN6I 7XFg== X-Gm-Message-State: AJIora8nn38+BFRSASSZjDjjL/e3Um9v6d1RvyWTG9nntkdB4edcFobF 1Dusd0sepbk0J0uNCZd7BTbdkCF5mX5k/F/vKyc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGRyM1vMhuOaDHCmzM5KoFjoEmv6Tdav+zCl3j8EVwvWYj63u/T8b8LuI5yA0RuIwhHA/oh7GpLxH8o/OTLhGS27e6k= X-Received: by 2002:a63:2254:0:b0:40d:d291:7710 with SMTP id t20-20020a632254000000b0040dd2917710mr30131145pgm.269.1657041983419; Tue, 05 Jul 2022 10:26:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <CADwFkmkWtOjsQ6EdpYtuK5U=cTHNaiDGQSB2Aa_0q91QnbqiVA@HIDDEN> <87r12zze9k.fsf@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <87r12zze9k.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2022 19:26:12 +0200 Message-ID: <CADwFkmkyXyJn61fovsw-hviyeY_OKba3LFnnhkPG3LjMqhWymQ@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#56401: "Case folding" should be called "ignore case" To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56401 Cc: 56401 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> writes: > In any case, I think renaming all the functions and variables here would > not be worth the churn -- there's quite a lot of them. On the other hand, you only need to do it once.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56401; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 56401) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Jul 2022 17:17:52 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jul 05 13:17:52 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51551 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1o8mBD-0007Bf-0V for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 Jul 2022 13:17:51 -0400 Received: from mail-pl1-f193.google.com ([209.85.214.193]:44674) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <visuweshm@HIDDEN>) id 1o8mBA-0007BS-TJ for 56401 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 Jul 2022 13:17:41 -0400 Received: by mail-pl1-f193.google.com with SMTP id p9so1380274plr.11 for <56401 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 05 Jul 2022 10:17:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=F/CbJPui8JLPCwWSgWmmQWz3NvWpMWnooQOOcOi57Jw=; b=VhBjeabRvs9k+W0GYH3I4CKUqzcstypZVOrT0+rzZi0g81CJBj5Go4rSCNtV3K8soI GZ4MKKIV070y6W8sKe4VJBF+BKMf76+02VCkGUFAQeusY0ER5GC1umvQsybZYui5/FR6 SOHCipqAugdmmUr/e2J5lOEKcUh09PpGVxPqcnS470ukm7HUUOiZvMeVRqrqT4+5J+cF MTli4QiT9ubrqEIwhOTA1aEm5yWe7BhkfFDSD9dGkM3ftCaCXIdit06/ZpR5hi6tp1x3 RaZrzKkPz9SL1iwRjLARkTuMnlD00iMciJexRQmtbe0K/eMZTMQEMtBoUKPS7MRxdwOF Vkzw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=F/CbJPui8JLPCwWSgWmmQWz3NvWpMWnooQOOcOi57Jw=; b=FloYsFBltkYNPcwpDNnpqAABQWk/H2r04VXxSxoAGD+wmNA4JUe7sNrsqEXNvD0tna Oag3AR5cNgmjvOy4T4kfrdYauPmIpQVjfIvfUM5QNxPf3o46B1uvUWovzseHp9MMoIB7 viqB23RrDerRcGm1IqvXDTYlhObC4G9GPILAXCKOOrXgVFe6Eyakf3AumEbHtXve2LC4 RgW8VZceAxQYAvTEhDHzNJ+wTa9zD2IkpOUHNCeY+LUl0QZB2lrb7YgcMzFc4vEPygKL 63ssYX3D1iP02VxQvcoFGHgr+T9nbenYHFmQ8bMI05N693aynQsGkSqzklAZesjvBF+e CIrA== X-Gm-Message-State: AJIora9zOjRYALn2gF8HOWNaGS+BdztmNctcvIS265HOHqvKD4+wcQ8k ZhXbMTTezEACnlligRb+k80= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGRyM1tnj876AimB5krE6CPA/N196Gt4tKlC6sjoioSMmW5o4uZBuhiKK9TFSJiecDqXwUJGlwVJCQ== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:dac1:b0:16a:7560:2ac4 with SMTP id q1-20020a170902dac100b0016a75602ac4mr41731835plx.55.1657041455131; Tue, 05 Jul 2022 10:17:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([49.204.134.236]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id i16-20020a17090a059000b001ef7c7564fdsm6670399pji.21.2022.07.05.10.17.33 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 05 Jul 2022 10:17:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Visuwesh <visuweshm@HIDDEN> To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#56401: "Case folding" should be called "ignore case" In-Reply-To: <87r12zze9k.fsf@HIDDEN> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Tue, 05 Jul 2022 18:59:51 +0200") References: <CADwFkmkWtOjsQ6EdpYtuK5U=cTHNaiDGQSB2Aa_0q91QnbqiVA@HIDDEN> <87r12zze9k.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2022 22:47:32 +0530 Message-ID: <87sfnfeaxf.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56401 Cc: 56401 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) [=E0=AE=9A=E0=AF=86=E0=AE=B5=E0=AF=8D=E0=AE=B5=E0=AE=BE=E0=AE=AF=E0=AF=8D = =E0=AE=9C=E0=AF=82=E0=AE=B2=E0=AF=88 05, 2022] Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote: > Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> writes: > >> The "case fold" terminology is too technical and not very user-friendly. >> In other software, in most user-facing contexts, it is called "ignore >> case". >> >> Please consider renaming all variables, commands, and documentation to >> refer to "ignore case" instead of "case folding". > > I agree that "ignore case" would be better, but it somehow seems like > most people don't have much problem with the "case folding" terminology? I find the term really hard to remember too. I wonder if we can define an apropos alias for "case fold" in `apropos-synonyms' but I think that only handles single words.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56401; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 56401) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Jul 2022 17:11:19 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jul 05 13:11:19 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51540 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1o8m51-00072F-BE for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 Jul 2022 13:11:19 -0400 Received: from mail-pf1-f176.google.com ([209.85.210.176]:38839) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <stefankangas@HIDDEN>) id 1o8m4z-000721-Dx for 56401 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 Jul 2022 13:11:17 -0400 Received: by mail-pf1-f176.google.com with SMTP id 67so2429366pfy.5 for <56401 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 05 Jul 2022 10:11:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=oCQXghzFVQtOHKT3l9q0Xy9nrg8xWvP52A1MTXF73N4=; b=GzSceBxv9dKU+QZUQg4LC1kPxu+jVFrvb4K04DNRkspjRQVO83yFoJ29/Cq0B5Cmcn XZcEyOAJeFPgpObeIPdDs1HdIu3n0Flph8xk7R0bN+y5ekvGqOUVw9wC6jNXXmCReB4J Ft6eWt3krsNgkrQkDqmXHcd4ULm73pWT4Bt91rE49w6XUuatPoyetWVDXfZLzVjUpzVB L5vW5EBomuTAtyzVVDIv4t+8mumFI7MawmcsDOX5JGwF4nMPgzv0G+IIRD2G0O6sn8rd cCMm0G60riL7f975l9Y+Cnl3aJUa/pieRgCjLbbqRIddYwKiOBzQeO/lUSuSaI55qGnE 5cNQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AJIora/xmXj27rZfbu7DTc5KhRCXPgMA0cQX+pZJcMN7RWKLIwxucq2H XuSR1ZVYM4j2DdJ0P+K7BPnGxhUus8WK0JLPiCY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGRyM1t+gYvX32rPtUdw+c9yfEill6aZC96Fpgmlt/7+nfOMNxv+0FwKZYhChX2/w7ANM8Kv/cZ3p9jZ4DKp9oXQNfc= X-Received: by 2002:a63:2254:0:b0:40d:d291:7710 with SMTP id t20-20020a632254000000b0040dd2917710mr30079443pgm.269.1657041071739; Tue, 05 Jul 2022 10:11:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <CADwFkmkWtOjsQ6EdpYtuK5U=cTHNaiDGQSB2Aa_0q91QnbqiVA@HIDDEN> <87r12zze9k.fsf@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <87r12zze9k.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2022 19:11:00 +0200 Message-ID: <CADwFkmkaoRy+LzAPJFfo77-P9Q1rRxZ78ubMWfO64-4AO1Wv_w@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#56401: "Case folding" should be called "ignore case" To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56401 Cc: 56401 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> writes: > I agree that "ignore case" would be better, but it somehow seems like > most people don't have much problem with the "case folding" terminology? I had to look up the exact meaning today, FWIW. (I confused myself on whether or not "case folding" is the same as "ignore case" or its inverse.)
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56401; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 56401) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Jul 2022 17:00:09 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jul 05 13:00:09 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51519 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1o8lu7-0004ZD-6d for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 Jul 2022 13:00:09 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:46004) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <larsi@HIDDEN>) id 1o8lu4-0004Y9-VN for 56401 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 Jul 2022 13:00:01 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References: In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=8/s835sY2opbYGwyxUXP9jxLnW9I9zkWkJ5PTRj68ZM=; b=qmjKRznx9GYBKdobvmaFQtkdCr +Op0JTpRAh/3C/O5bPi1UkaWEBJAhnmKl1lDx2I7C3NEfYMTj8MxSp0trWUpHZaBL5EksNa2akIhN 9nvvCmbc93Qiy409/yxXrag5ZtwYu8xZYleDobA5SorDK94WkTvrkgf2fZ4zfa1JtJpI=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=joga) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from <larsi@HIDDEN>) id 1o8ltw-00041O-MB; Tue, 05 Jul 2022 18:59:55 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> To: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#56401: "Case folding" should be called "ignore case" In-Reply-To: <CADwFkmkWtOjsQ6EdpYtuK5U=cTHNaiDGQSB2Aa_0q91QnbqiVA@HIDDEN> (Stefan Kangas's message of "Tue, 5 Jul 2022 09:04:25 -0700") References: <CADwFkmkWtOjsQ6EdpYtuK5U=cTHNaiDGQSB2Aa_0q91QnbqiVA@HIDDEN> X-Now-Playing: Frankie Goes To Hollywood's _Liverpool_: "Kill The Pain" Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2022 18:59:51 +0200 Message-ID: <87r12zze9k.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> writes: > The "case fold" terminology is too technical and not very user-friendly. > In other software, in most user-facing contexts, it is called "ignore > case". > > Please consider renaming all variables, [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 56401 Cc: 56401 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> writes: > The "case fold" terminology is too technical and not very user-friendly. > In other software, in most user-facing contexts, it is called "ignore > case". > > Please consider renaming all variables, commands, and documentation to > refer to "ignore case" instead of "case folding". I agree that "ignore case" would be better, but it somehow seems like most people don't have much problem with the "case folding" terminology? In any case, I think renaming all the functions and variables here would not be worth the churn -- there's quite a lot of them. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56401; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Jul 2022 16:04:36 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jul 05 12:04:36 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51368 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1o8l2R-0000tZ-Tj for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 Jul 2022 12:04:36 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:46358) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <stefankangas@HIDDEN>) id 1o8l2M-0000tL-TO for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 Jul 2022 12:04:34 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:58010) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <stefankangas@HIDDEN>) id 1o8l2M-0000wQ-Nb for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Tue, 05 Jul 2022 12:04:30 -0400 Received: from mail-pf1-f175.google.com ([209.85.210.175]:41701) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <stefankangas@HIDDEN>) id 1o8l2K-0003lk-Hj for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Tue, 05 Jul 2022 12:04:30 -0400 Received: by mail-pf1-f175.google.com with SMTP id l124so1530478pfl.8 for <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>; Tue, 05 Jul 2022 09:04:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=PV4FB3RN5Bq/f+6slTGujVIlahaDORQjg/lRdA5ri2c=; b=olV3k8Ia3Z2iyRcJve/iYVaEQ2455KfpBN5TSrMIlN71iv5DK9yd3sJU/Qsra+HTb1 1eePQVxO6PvcAiAo3z8mUzANKh2Oap6bOFUAF169QarGKsrSUWYdtv7qHKylIspIwBWM AOAcF2+Kl52UaUPUGjVDZYpMWgRd19L0O/x72qglEqL/3TT/y85LodVkvdH2+Ec5bFAD hkd6bWlNr/7mIkqVnS6/NEaJsaR3yr7tHUAgT4b/yRADEuJWs95+G8PhCMdM47goZK8/ 0Zf+t/dLV7fgq73HM7OBec4IMLaEHfIz7aDywhnPeQv5Wu2rStbUDNTgViF59xWNsSUG QDtA== X-Gm-Message-State: AJIora99cakdfd8bNzc/i/mHJ/ULLeu034dz218Iwjd2vGT/WQhw3i9u kMHkAx9Lj7pvpGI4Qpd4IwxoUFLGVldY0idhqbp03lQQ X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGRyM1sS6qIUNp0X7s3lJU+6Z784ui7LCMvic63p87LBdLPxCkSIy9s40fy5lmHthgjvYco/6JS7rVV7yWHsVzxLCxg= X-Received: by 2002:a63:2254:0:b0:40d:d291:7710 with SMTP id t20-20020a632254000000b0040dd2917710mr29852790pgm.269.1657037066276; Tue, 05 Jul 2022 09:04:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Tue, 5 Jul 2022 09:04:25 -0700 From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2022 09:04:25 -0700 Message-ID: <CADwFkmkWtOjsQ6EdpYtuK5U=cTHNaiDGQSB2Aa_0q91QnbqiVA@HIDDEN> Subject: "Case folding" should be called "ignore case" To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=209.85.210.175; envelope-from=stefankangas@HIDDEN; helo=mail-pf1-f175.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -13 X-Spam_score: -1.4 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.249, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-) Severity: wishlist The "case fold" terminology is too technical and not very user-friendly. In other software, in most user-facing contexts, it is called "ignore case". Please consider renaming all variables, commands, and documentation to refer to "ignore case" instead of "case folding".
Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN>:bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.
Full text available.bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#56401; Package emacs.
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