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Subject: bug#56407: 29.0.50; desktop.el shouldn't be saving/restoring eglot--managed-mode, which is not for interactive use
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From: =?UTF-8?Q?Jo=C3=A3o_?= =?UTF-8?Q?T=C3=A1vora?= <joaotavora@HIDDEN>
Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2022 20:34:16 +0100
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Hi Morten, maintainers,

Recently, in https://github.com/joaotavora/eglot/issues/990, we found
out that users of both eglot.el and desktop.el were getting errors when
restarting Emacs.  That's because desktop.el attempts to re-enable the
eglot--managed-mode minor mode which was "on" when they saved the
session (presumably on exit).

I confirmed this with a stack trace requested from the user and came up
with this workaround in the user's config:

    (add-to-list 'desktop-minor-mode-handlers
                 '(eglot--managed-mode . ignore))

This works, but we should come up with something better.

In Eglot, the eglot--managed-mode minor mode is an implementation
detail, it is NOT meant to be called by the user, since it requires a
number of preconditions (like firing up a successful server) to be met.

Therefore, I have named the symbol with the "internal symbol"
convention.  In this very simple patch, I teach desktop.el to watch out
for this convention and not restart that mode.

diff --git a/lisp/desktop.el b/lisp/desktop.el
index 1a4103e209..a93703a77e 100644
--- a/lisp/desktop.el
+++ b/lisp/desktop.el
@@ -1617,7 +1617,9 @@ desktop-create-buffer
 		   (let ((handler (cdr (assq minor-mode desktop-minor-mode-handlers))))
 		     (if handler
 			 (funcall handler desktop-buffer-locals)
-		       (when (functionp minor-mode)
+		       (when (or (functionp minor-mode)
+                                 (and (symbolp minor-mode)
+                                      (not (string-match "^[^-]+--" (symbo=
l-name minor-mode)))))
 			 (funcall minor-mode 1)))))))
 	  ;; Even though point and mark are non-nil when written by
 	  ;; `desktop-save', they may be modified by handlers wanting to set


This probably works (though I haven't tested), but maybe we could come
up with some other way around this, like having eglot.el propertize its
'eglot--managed-mode' symbol so that desktop.el doesn't even write it
onto the user's save file.  Or something like that.

Thanks,
Jo=C3=A3o

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To: =?UTF-8?Q?Jo=C3=A3o_?= =?UTF-8?Q?T=C3=A1vora?= <joaotavora@HIDDEN>
Subject: bug#56407: Acknowledgement (29.0.50; desktop.el shouldn't be
 saving/restoring eglot--managed-mode, which is not for interactive use)
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Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2022 19:34:02 +0000

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Message sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:

Subject: bug#56407: 29.0.50; desktop.el shouldn't be saving/restoring eglot--managed-mode, which is not for interactive use
Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
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Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2022 22:40:53 +0300
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From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
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> Cc: Morten Welinder <terra@HIDDEN>
> From: João Távora <joaotavora@HIDDEN>
> Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2022 20:34:16 +0100
> 
> Hi Morten, maintainers,
> 
> Recently, in https://github.com/joaotavora/eglot/issues/990, we found
> out that users of both eglot.el and desktop.el were getting errors when
> restarting Emacs.  That's because desktop.el attempts to re-enable the
> eglot--managed-mode minor mode which was "on" when they saved the
> session (presumably on exit).
> 
> I confirmed this with a stack trace requested from the user and came up
> with this workaround in the user's config:
> 
>     (add-to-list 'desktop-minor-mode-handlers
>                  '(eglot--managed-mode . ignore))
> 
> This works, but we should come up with something better.

But why is the above not good enough?  You could also use
desktop-minor-mode-table, which is a defcustom.

IOW, desktop.el already has the machinery to not restore some modes,
and I see no need to make a general change like you suggest just
because the mode in your case happened to have a symbol which looks
like an internal one.  Your change also precludes anyone to have such
a mode restored, ever -- why?

> This probably works (though I haven't tested), but maybe we could come
> up with some other way around this, like having eglot.el propertize its
> 'eglot--managed-mode' symbol so that desktop.el doesn't even write it
> onto the user's save file.  Or something like that.

Why invent new machinery, when we already have more than enough to
handle this problem (and many similar ones)?

Message sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:

Subject: bug#56407: 29.0.50; desktop.el shouldn't be saving/restoring eglot--managed-mode, which is not for interactive use
Resent-From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN>
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From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <87y1x7pd53.fsf@HIDDEN> ("=?UTF-8?Q?Jo=C3=A3o_?= =?UTF-8?Q?T=C3=A1vora?="'s message of "Tue, 05 Jul 2022 20:34:16 +0100")
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 Content preview:  =?UTF-8?Q?Jo=C3=A3o_?= =?UTF-8?Q?T=C3=A1vora?= <joaotavora@HIDDEN> writes: > This probably
    works (though I haven't tested), but maybe we could come > up with some other
    way around this, like having eglot.el propertize its > 'eglot--managed-mode'
    symbol so that desktop.el doe [...] 
 
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Jo=C3=A3o T=C3=A1vora <joaotavora@HIDDEN> writes:

> This probably works (though I haven't tested), but maybe we could come
> up with some other way around this, like having eglot.el propertize its
> 'eglot--managed-mode' symbol so that desktop.el doesn't even write it
> onto the user's save file.  Or something like that.

Yes, I think it'd be better to add a mechanism like

(put 'eglot--managed-mode 'desktop-inhibit t)

or the like, and get rid of

(defcustom desktop-minor-mode-table
  '((defining-kbd-macro nil)
    (isearch-mode nil)
    (vc-mode nil)
...

which is used for the same thing.

--=20
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

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Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:

>> I confirmed this with a stack trace requested from the user and came up
>> with this workaround in the user's config:
>>=20
>>     (add-to-list 'desktop-minor-mode-handlers
>>                  '(eglot--managed-mode . ignore))
>>=20
>> This works, but we should come up with something better.
>
> But why is the above not good enough?  You could also use
> desktop-minor-mode-table, which is a defcustom.

At first I thought it was a customization variable and that would make
it user-specific overwritable etc.  But I see now that evidently it is
not.  According to the docstring of d-m-m-handlers, eglot.el could just
just contain the above invocation, indeed.

But that has the downside that eglot.el must require "desktop.el" which
IMO opinion too strongly couples the two packages.

I think I like Lars's solution best.

Jo=C3=A3o

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Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> writes:

> Yes, I think it'd be better to add a mechanism like
>
> (put 'eglot--managed-mode 'desktop-inhibit t)

Yes, I think I like this solution best.  Some desktop.el-agnostic name
that conveys "implementation-detail" would be even better, IMO.

Jo=C3=A3o

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Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:

>  Your change also precludes anyone to have such
> a mode restored, ever -- why?

I'm sorry, I realize I didn't answer this part of your email earlier.

eglot--managed-mode is a special minor mode: although the function is
created by define-minor-mode, it is not meant to be turned interactively
for example.  It needs certain preconditions to be true before turning
it on and off.  If this was all there it could perhaps be arranged with
some of those special function, but a very important detail here is that
these preconditions cannot be on per-buffer.  The most important of them
regards a connection to an LSP server which has a view over _all_
buffers in a certain major mode within a certain project.  Eglot has
machinery to carefully manage this, and I'm not sure it is easy or wise
to transfer or invoke that machinery in desktop.el's mode-restoring
functions.

Also, eglot--managed-mode is really an implementation detail that is
subject to change.  Not only theoretically, but practically, too, as I
ponder the ability to have more than one server active for any given
buffer at a time.

Jo=C3=A3o

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> From: João Távora <joaotavora@HIDDEN>
> Cc: 56407 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,  terra@HIDDEN
> Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2022 20:53:33 +0100
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:
> 
> >> I confirmed this with a stack trace requested from the user and came up
> >> with this workaround in the user's config:
> >> 
> >>     (add-to-list 'desktop-minor-mode-handlers
> >>                  '(eglot--managed-mode . ignore))
> >> 
> >> This works, but we should come up with something better.
> >
> > But why is the above not good enough?  You could also use
> > desktop-minor-mode-table, which is a defcustom.
> 
> At first I thought it was a customization variable and that would make
> it user-specific overwritable etc.  But I see now that evidently it is
> not.  According to the docstring of d-m-m-handlers, eglot.el could just
> just contain the above invocation, indeed.
> 
> But that has the downside that eglot.el must require "desktop.el" which
> IMO opinion too strongly couples the two packages.

I see no reason to require: you just add a value to the list, that's
all.

> I think I like Lars's solution best.

I don't: it makes the information spread out and harder to find.

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> From: João Távora <joaotavora@HIDDEN>
> Cc: 56407 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2022 23:52:35 +0100
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:
> 
> >  Your change also precludes anyone to have such
> > a mode restored, ever -- why?
> 
> I'm sorry, I realize I didn't answer this part of your email earlier.
> 
> eglot--managed-mode is a special minor mode:

I meant _any_ mode that has "--" in its symbol, not just
eglot--managed-mode.  I don't want to preclude restoration of any such
modes, from now to eternity, it's too heavy a promise to make.

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On Wed, Jul 6, 2022 at 3:29 AM Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> wrote:

> > From: Jo=C3=A3o T=C3=A1vora <joaotavora@HIDDEN>
> > Cc: 56407 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,  terra@HIDDEN
> > Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2022 20:53:33 +0100
> >
> > Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:
> >
> > >> I confirmed this with a stack trace requested from the user and came
> up
> > >> with this workaround in the user's config:
> > >>
> > >>     (add-to-list 'desktop-minor-mode-handlers
> > >>                  '(eglot--managed-mode . ignore))
> > >>
> > >> This works, but we should come up with something better.
> > >
> > > But why is the above not good enough?  You could also use
> > > desktop-minor-mode-table, which is a defcustom.
> >
> > At first I thought it was a customization variable and that would make
> > it user-specific overwritable etc.  But I see now that evidently it is
> > not.  According to the docstring of d-m-m-handlers, eglot.el could just
> > just contain the above invocation, indeed.
> >
> > But that has the downside that eglot.el must require "desktop.el" which
> > IMO opinion too strongly couples the two packages.
>
> I see no reason to require: you just add a value to the list, that's
> all.
>

Oh, it's an autoloaded variable.  OK then, it'll work. It'll load in
desktop.el
though.

> I think I like Lars's solution best.
>
> I don't: it makes the information spread out and harder to find.
>

Depends on whether one thinks using the global symbol table in Elisp is
counts as "spread out". I don't.

There's a nice upside to it, which is it prevents people like me not
interested in desktop.el at all from having it autoloaded just by loading
 eglot.el.  The things eglot.el is trying to say to desktop.el is "stay out
of
my minor mode" so it is strange that it has to pull in desktop.el every tim=
e
just to say that.

Jo=C3=A3o T=C3=A1vora

--0000000000004ddf8005e31e84df
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Wed, Jul 6, 2022 at 3:29 AM Eli Zarets=
kii &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:eliz@HIDDEN">eliz@HIDDEN</a>&gt; wrote:<br></di=
v><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"mar=
gin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1=
ex">&gt; From: Jo=C3=A3o T=C3=A1vora &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:joaotavora@gmail=
.com" target=3D"_blank">joaotavora@HIDDEN</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:56407 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" target=3D"_blank">56407@d=
ebbugs.gnu.org</a>,=C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:terra@HIDDEN" target=3D"_blank=
">terra@HIDDEN</a><br>
&gt; Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2022 20:53:33 +0100<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Eli Zaretskii &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:eliz@HIDDEN" target=3D"_blank">el=
iz@HIDDEN</a>&gt; writes:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; I confirmed this with a stack trace requested from the user a=
nd came up<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; with this workaround in the user&#39;s config:<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; <br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0(add-to-list &#39;desktop-minor-mode-handl=
ers<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 &#39;(eglot--managed-mode . ignore))<br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; <br>
&gt; &gt;&gt; This works, but we should come up with something better.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; But why is the above not good enough?=C2=A0 You could also use<br=
>
&gt; &gt; desktop-minor-mode-table, which is a defcustom.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; At first I thought it was a customization variable and that would make=
<br>
&gt; it user-specific overwritable etc.=C2=A0 But I see now that evidently =
it is<br>
&gt; not.=C2=A0 According to the docstring of d-m-m-handlers, eglot.el coul=
d just<br>
&gt; just contain the above invocation, indeed.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; But that has the downside that eglot.el must require &quot;desktop.el&=
quot; which<br>
&gt; IMO opinion too strongly couples the two packages.<br>
<br>
I see no reason to require: you just add a value to the list, that&#39;s<br=
>
all.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Oh, it&#39;s an autoloaded variabl=
e.=C2=A0 OK then, it&#39;ll work. It&#39;ll load in desktop.el <br></div><d=
iv>though.</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"m=
argin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left=
:1ex">
&gt; I think I like Lars&#39;s solution best.<br>
<br>
I don&#39;t: it makes the information spread out and harder to find.<br></b=
lockquote><div><br></div><div>Depends on whether one thinks using the globa=
l symbol table in Elisp is</div><div>counts as &quot;spread out&quot;. I do=
n&#39;t.<br></div><div><br></div><div>There&#39;s a nice upside to it, whic=
h is it prevents people like me not <br></div><div>interested in desktop.el=
 at all from having it autoloaded just by loading</div><div>=C2=A0eglot.el.=
=C2=A0 The things eglot.el is trying to say to desktop.el is &quot;stay out=
 of</div><div>my minor mode&quot; so it is strange that it has to pull in d=
esktop.el every time</div><div>just to say that.</div></div><br><div dir=3D=
"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature">Jo=C3=A3o T=C3=A1vora</div></div>

--0000000000004ddf8005e31e84df--

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On Wed, Jul 6, 2022 at 3:34 AM Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> wrote:

> > From: Jo=C3=A3o T=C3=A1vora <joaotavora@HIDDEN>
> > Cc: 56407 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> > Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2022 23:52:35 +0100
> >
> > Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:
> >
> > >  Your change also precludes anyone to have such
> > > a mode restored, ever -- why?
> >
> > I'm sorry, I realize I didn't answer this part of your email earlier.
> >
> > eglot--managed-mode is a special minor mode:
>
> I meant _any_ mode that has "--" in its symbol, not just
> eglot--managed-mode.  I don't want to preclude restoration of any such
> modes, from now to eternity, it's too heavy a promise to make.
>

I think there are no promises made on those modes anyway,
because they are implementation details, by their authors'
definition.

But I agree it's not the prettiest kludge.

Jo=C3=A3o

--0000000000003461ea05e31eb897
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Wed, Jul 6, 2022 at 3:34 AM Eli Zarets=
kii &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:eliz@HIDDEN">eliz@HIDDEN</a>&gt; wrote:<br></di=
v><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"mar=
gin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1=
ex">&gt; From: Jo=C3=A3o T=C3=A1vora &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:joaotavora@gmail=
.com" target=3D"_blank">joaotavora@HIDDEN</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:56407 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" target=3D"_blank">56407@d=
ebbugs.gnu.org</a><br>
&gt; Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2022 23:52:35 +0100<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Eli Zaretskii &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:eliz@HIDDEN" target=3D"_blank">el=
iz@HIDDEN</a>&gt; writes:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 Your change also precludes anyone to have such<br>
&gt; &gt; a mode restored, ever -- why?<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; I&#39;m sorry, I realize I didn&#39;t answer this part of your email e=
arlier.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; eglot--managed-mode is a special minor mode:<br>
<br>
I meant _any_ mode that has &quot;--&quot; in its symbol, not just<br>
eglot--managed-mode.=C2=A0 I don&#39;t want to preclude restoration of any =
such<br>
modes, from now to eternity, it&#39;s too heavy a promise to make.<br></blo=
ckquote><div><br></div><div>I think there are no promises made on those mod=
es anyway, <br></div><div>because they are implementation details, by their=
 authors&#39; <br></div><div>definition. <br></div></div><div><br></div><di=
v>But I agree it&#39;s not the prettiest kludge.</div><div><br></div><div>J=
o=C3=A3o<br></div><div><br></div></div>

--0000000000003461ea05e31eb897--

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> From: João Távora <joaotavora@HIDDEN>
> Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2022 09:12:39 +0100
> Cc: 56407 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
>  I see no reason to require: you just add a value to the list, that's
>  all.
> 
> Oh, it's an autoloaded variable.  OK then, it'll work. It'll load in desktop.el 
> though.

I feel there's some misunderstanding here.  What I meant is simply add
eglot--managed-mode to the default value of the variable in
desktop.el.  Why would that require loading desktop.el?

>  > I think I like Lars's solution best.
> 
>  I don't: it makes the information spread out and harder to find.
> 
> Depends on whether one thinks using the global symbol table in Elisp is
> counts as "spread out". I don't.

What do you mean by "global symbol table"?

What I meant is that having all the modes which desktop.el treats
specially in one place in desktop.el makes it easier to find out which
modes are those, than if each of the modes had something like
"(put foo-mode 'desktop...)" in its own file.  Because in the latter
case, if I want to know which modes are handled specially by desktop,
I'd need to search the entire tree.

> There's a nice upside to it, which is it prevents people like me not 
> interested in desktop.el at all from having it autoloaded just by loading
>  eglot.el.  The things eglot.el is trying to say to desktop.el is "stay out of
> my minor mode" so it is strange that it has to pull in desktop.el every time
> just to say that.

See above: I don't think I understand why would you need to load
desktop.el.  The variable desktop-minor-mode-table is of interest only
when the desktop is saved or restored, and at that time desktop.el is
already loaded, of course.  No other code anywhere else should need to
consult desktop-minor-mode-table.  Or what am I missing?

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On Wed, Jul 6, 2022 at 12:09 PM Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> wrote:


> > Oh, it's an autoloaded variable.  OK then, it'll work. It'll load in
> desktop.el
> > though.
>
> I feel there's some misunderstanding here.  What I meant is simply add
> eglot--managed-mode to the default value of the variable in
> desktop.el.  Why would that require loading desktop.el?
>

Indeed, I misunderstood. I thought you meant adding that to eglot.el.

But then I'd say it is even worse, as you're informing desktop.el
about an implementation detail of eglot.el.  If I change that minor
mode's name, then I have to change desktop.el as well.

>  > I think I like Lars's solution best.
> >  I don't: it makes the information spread out and harder to find.
> > Depends on whether one thinks using the global symbol table in Elisp is
> > counts as "spread out". I don't.
> What do you mean by "global symbol table"?
>

The obarray.

What I meant is that having all the modes which desktop.el treats
> specially in one place in desktop.el makes it easier to find out which
> modes are those, than if each of the modes had something like
> "(put foo-mode 'desktop...)" in its own file.  Because in the latter
> case, if I want to know which modes are handled specially by desktop,
> I'd need to search the entire tree.
>

mapatoms is used all the time, it's fast and it can answer that.

But typically I think, the question would be: "Why isn't this mode X being
handled as I expect it to?", and then the answer would be easy.  Except
that even that question is hard to conceive in this particular case: why
would
someone be concerned about `eglot--managed-mode`, if it's an
implementation detail?

I think we use symbol properties very often and to good effect.  For exampl=
e
to describe the file-local safety of variables.


> > There's a nice upside to it, which is it prevents people like me not
> > interested in desktop.el at all from having it autoloaded just by loadi=
ng
> >  eglot.el.  The things eglot.el is trying to say to desktop.el is "stay
> out of
> > my minor mode" so it is strange that it has to pull in desktop.el every
> time
> > just to say that.
>
> See above: I don't think I understand why would you need to load
> desktop.el.  The variable desktop-minor-mode-table is of interest only
> when the desktop is saved or restored, and at that time desktop.el is
> already loaded, of course.  No other code anywhere else should need to
> consult desktop-minor-mode-table.  Or what am I missing?
>

See above. I thought you meant putting the line into eglot.el which would
work but needs loading desktop.el. Conversely, putting the eglot-specific
line
in desktop.el is putting eglot.el implementation details outside eglot.el,
which
is bad.

So, either way, using the desktop-minor-mode-table for this is a poor
choice,
which logically means that the information should be stored in the symbol,
which exists in the global symbol table (the obarray).

Interestingly, a hook variable doesn't have this drawback, btw.  In fact,
they seem to have been designed to avoid this class of problems. But
d-m-m-table is not a hook variable.

Jo=C3=A3o T=C3=A1vora

--000000000000b6c66905e321475b
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail=
_attr">On Wed, Jul 6, 2022 at 12:09 PM Eli Zaretskii &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
eliz@HIDDEN">eliz@HIDDEN</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockq=
uote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1p=
x solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
&gt; Oh, it&#39;s an autoloaded variable.=C2=A0 OK then, it&#39;ll work. It=
&#39;ll load in desktop.el <br>
&gt; though.<br>
<br>
I feel there&#39;s some misunderstanding here.=C2=A0 What I meant is simply=
 add<br>
eglot--managed-mode to the default value of the variable in<br>
desktop.el.=C2=A0 Why would that require loading desktop.el?<br></blockquot=
e><div><br></div><div>Indeed, I misunderstood. I thought you meant adding t=
hat to eglot.el.</div><div><br></div><div>But then I&#39;d say it is even w=
orse, as you&#39;re informing desktop.el <br></div><div>about an implementa=
tion detail of eglot.el.=C2=A0 If I change that minor <br></div><div>mode&#=
39;s name, then I have to change desktop.el as well.=C2=A0 <br></div><div><=
/div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">

&gt;=C2=A0 &gt; I think I like Lars&#39;s solution best.<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 I don&#39;t: it makes the information spread out and harder to f=
ind.<br>
&gt; Depends on whether one thinks using the global symbol table in Elisp i=
s<br>
&gt; counts as &quot;spread out&quot;. I don&#39;t.<br>
What do you mean by &quot;global symbol table&quot;?<br></blockquote><div><=
br></div><div>The obarray. <br></div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gm=
ail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,=
204,204);padding-left:1ex">
What I meant is that having all the modes which desktop.el treats<br>
specially in one place in desktop.el makes it easier to find out which<br>
modes are those, than if each of the modes had something like<br>
&quot;(put foo-mode &#39;desktop...)&quot; in its own file.=C2=A0 Because i=
n the latter<br>
case, if I want to know which modes are handled specially by desktop,<br>
I&#39;d need to search the entire tree.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div=
>mapatoms is used all the time, it&#39;s fast and it can answer that.<br></=
div><div><br></div><div>But typically I think, the question would be: &quot=
;Why isn&#39;t this mode X being</div><div>handled as I expect it to?&quot;=
, and then the answer would be easy.=C2=A0 Except</div><div>that even that =
question is hard to conceive in this particular case: why would <br></div><=
div>someone be concerned about `eglot--managed-mode`, if it&#39;s an <br></=
div><div>implementation detail?</div><div><br></div><div>I think we use sym=
bol properties very often and to good effect.=C2=A0 For example</div><div>t=
o describe the file-local safety of variables.<br></div><div>=C2=A0<br></di=
v><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;borde=
r-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
&gt; There&#39;s a nice upside to it, which is it prevents people like me n=
ot <br>
&gt; interested in desktop.el at all from having it autoloaded just by load=
ing<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 eglot.el.=C2=A0 The things eglot.el is trying to say to desktop.=
el is &quot;stay out of<br>
&gt; my minor mode&quot; so it is strange that it has to pull in desktop.el=
 every time<br>
&gt; just to say that.<br>
<br>
See above: I don&#39;t think I understand why would you need to load<br>
desktop.el.=C2=A0 The variable desktop-minor-mode-table is of interest only=
<br>
when the desktop is saved or restored, and at that time desktop.el is<br>
already loaded, of course.=C2=A0 No other code anywhere else should need to=
<br>
consult desktop-minor-mode-table.=C2=A0 Or what am I missing?<br></blockquo=
te><div><br></div><div>See above. I thought you meant putting the line into=
 eglot.el which would</div><div>work but needs loading desktop.el. Converse=
ly, putting the eglot-specific line</div><div>in desktop.el is putting eglo=
t.el implementation details outside eglot.el, which</div><div>is bad.</div>=
<div><br></div><div>So, either way, using the desktop-minor-mode-table for =
this is a poor choice, <br></div><div>which logically means that the inform=
ation should be stored in the symbol, <br></div><div>which exists in the gl=
obal symbol table (the obarray).<br></div><div><br></div><div>Interestingly=
, a hook variable doesn&#39;t have this drawback, btw.=C2=A0 In fact, <br><=
/div><div>they seem to have been designed to avoid this class of problems. =
But <br></div><div>d-m-m-table is not a hook variable.<br></div><br></div><=
div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature">Jo=C3=A3o T=C3=A1vora</div></div>

--000000000000b6c66905e321475b--

Last modified: Wed, 6 Jul 2022 11:30:02 UTC

GNU bug tracking system
Copyright (C) 1999 Darren O. Benham, 1997 nCipher Corporation Ltd, 1994-97 Ian Jackson.