Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN>
to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org.
Full text available.Received: (at 57003) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Oct 2022 03:08:08 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Oct 30 23:08:08 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39307 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1opL9j-0000J1-NQ for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 30 Oct 2022 23:08:08 -0400 Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]:43935) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <yantar92@HIDDEN>) id 1opL9h-0000IV-DD for 57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 30 Oct 2022 23:08:06 -0400 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C98FF240101 for <57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 31 Oct 2022 04:07:59 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1667185679; bh=SMtsjJt2LxvP+chTpjXmzc0fVPYQ5Ds5rypujca6o/M=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=qnCKqvH8oeHvRRnaUP39hi147Ppz08wv1Y0oc0CidT31OSHUHH4yWi7qY4tLxS5KS P/pLMjSfwtNGV2rhojZZh/s5q+59e4DwUr2sXbCz3nnCE8wHaawiMHr7OgFQ9RG5Tt OZpzoNGkMj68FD8HCL87U36uuRY4/Yh93AGaIbBVbGO207R2GLiK/JSxyDtsRU86bh QJGUXT8oBOPW3tND9/UXRc/1nK6W0poKSCG5VGxJZPD+A53EJa5Ss2Yc+XcU+kxxrn VMujuMfPGoOZUpr2M94NLljAiy+Rd8B1UL7LLDcx7jMvIrNT6UsFLqxo/rb6Xe7aE4 7O5d/gDROJoPg== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4N0yl16G5Rz6tpG; Mon, 31 Oct 2022 04:07:57 +0100 (CET) From: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#57003: 28.1.90; Can local variables be loaded before loading major mode? In-Reply-To: <jwv1qqp7awd.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> References: <87czdeoqy7.fsf@localhost> <87v8r54j3h.fsf@HIDDEN> <875yj5xzou.fsf@localhost> <jwvbkq9b6tw.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <87h6zni1uc.fsf@localhost> <jwvsfj6itry.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <87pmeaauib.fsf@localhost> <jwvmt9e6m3b.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <jwvh6zm6kmv.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <875yg2arjv.fsf@localhost> <jwv1qqp7awd.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2022 03:08:36 +0000 Message-ID: <87y1swlmff.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57003 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN>, 57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> writes: >>> , and I think my recommendation was out >>> of date: the better answer is to use `after-change-major-mode-hook` the >>> `:after-hook` thingy of `define-derived-mode`. >> >> Will it run before or after org-mode-hook? > > It's run after setting file-local vars, which themselves are set after > running the mode hooks. This is unfortunate. org-mode-hook is "Mode hook for Org mode, run after the mode was turned on.". But we need to load file-local variables in order to turn on Org mode + respect file-local settings. So, neither hack-local-variables-hook nor :after-hook will solve the problem I suggested solving in this discussion. For Org mode, it is necessary to complete the setup before org-mode-hook is loaded (I am not talking about folding; there are more critical parts like parser setup). Otherwise, the existing third-party packages adding things to org-mode-hook will be broken. Outside Org mode peculiarities, the fact that hack-local-variables-hook is run after *-mode-hook also means that subtle bugs might be introduced into major modes that are utilizing hack-local-variables-hook for important setup. I conclude that my original idea herein about a new option to load local variables early may be even more important than I initially thought. -- Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>. Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>, or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#57003; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 57003) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Oct 2022 12:30:24 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Oct 30 08:30:24 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37477 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1op7SJ-0007U5-VZ for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 30 Oct 2022 08:30:24 -0400 Received: from mailscanner.iro.umontreal.ca ([132.204.25.50]:63107) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <monnier@HIDDEN>) id 1op7SH-0007Tt-UK for 57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 30 Oct 2022 08:30:23 -0400 Received: from pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id F30C544089C; Sun, 30 Oct 2022 08:30:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (unknown [172.31.2.1]) by pmg3.iro.umontreal.ca (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 9906F44088B; Sun, 30 Oct 2022 08:30:14 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=iro.umontreal.ca; s=mail; t=1667133014; bh=kR3l1WtCCs8H2+meH2saR/gCj8zCFZPNVF7rKCmr8lQ=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=Xo3ClXwqnPlWTPX1JiP64T9ZNile4/AZTd5HOnCi0w1iXY/brM/ogGxa3/ot3I1EB 73L/32jYYl7Z/oAlvsfXqWZXNmEoVfs3+g1TvV5ytEQLKwvC0oUR9QtW3a/OkdhYgh DqTq97pFRdCH1ISF3DMkdy46QR/LNCS8BePzcpnC8IOHO0jet/zlNrgCoKUzKZaFTN 9gWh3OYfL51RyPcg93mqh0iEw5pQ8sbBij53h+xYgwQfyHtcronTco1QMid6VpIlDd ZGO0CEtc7wgJ+RsWQG6FoDz1O+VPWIkU6kfHkfKOL5CU1UnEyywz73QQWWzAWyrEeo VQbvQmThEn4zQ== Received: from pastel (65-110-220-202.cpe.pppoe.ca [65.110.220.202]) by mail01.iro.umontreal.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4AA20120E90; Sun, 30 Oct 2022 08:30:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> To: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#57003: 28.1.90; Can local variables be loaded before loading major mode? In-Reply-To: <875yg2arjv.fsf@localhost> (Ihor Radchenko's message of "Sun, 30 Oct 2022 04:01:08 +0000") Message-ID: <jwv1qqp7awd.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> References: <87czdeoqy7.fsf@localhost> <87v8r54j3h.fsf@HIDDEN> <875yj5xzou.fsf@localhost> <jwvbkq9b6tw.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <87h6zni1uc.fsf@localhost> <jwvsfj6itry.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <87pmeaauib.fsf@localhost> <jwvmt9e6m3b.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <jwvh6zm6kmv.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <875yg2arjv.fsf@localhost> Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2022 08:30:12 -0400 User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-SPAM-INFO: Spam detection results: 0 ALL_TRUSTED -1 Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP AWL -0.009 Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address BAYES_00 -1.9 Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% DKIM_SIGNED 0.1 Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid DKIM_VALID -0.1 Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature DKIM_VALID_AU -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain X-SPAM-LEVEL: X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57003 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN>, 57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Ihor Radchenko [2022-10-30 04:01:08] wrote: > Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> writes: >>> Not really, no. I have no doubt that there are various (in addition to >>> the one you mention above). >> >> Looking at some of the related code, I had a feeling of "d=E9j=E0 vu": >> `hack-local-variables-hook' indeed suffers from various gotchas >> (starting with the non-intuitive name and the fact that it only >> applies to file-visiting buffers) > > Does it mean that "Major modes can use this to examine user-specified > local variables in order to initialize other data structure based on > them." statement in the docstring of `hack-local-variables-hook' should > be amended? Good question, maybe it should be amended to point to `after-change-major-mode-hook`? >> , and I think my recommendation was out >> of date: the better answer is to use `after-change-major-mode-hook` the >> `:after-hook` thingy of `define-derived-mode`. > > Will it run before or after org-mode-hook? It's run after setting file-local vars, which themselves are set after running the mode hooks.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#57003; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 57003) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Oct 2022 06:59:14 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Oct 30 02:59:14 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37223 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1op2Hp-00006R-W7 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 30 Oct 2022 02:59:14 -0400 Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]:59989) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <yantar92@HIDDEN>) id 1op2Ho-00006D-PG for 57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 30 Oct 2022 02:59:13 -0400 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A09D4240027 for <57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 30 Oct 2022 07:59:06 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1667113146; bh=FTLeBGRHJ+eFOBEc73rcPH/XhQ/altMBOKVVoZyPpl0=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=gm5Vrxxe1CBy0KJYG3y8eVqIBHYdH+gOpzF8gJMgeGgHDATDIxo+SfiaxjWvJgpln fegwu89Mg+L68NOI1hkASLNxoLYmm1Chk3WQlSq6bAPg8nXrgH/rhm+QcGK6o0vej+ frvmebgBFSY9tJFjmnsWkB6wwCR5NveVDqheNshWE3DmXis8bBCJr/cQGgsIhOT700 m4loWVi4bGPYKf0KaY01pfu7HcEWTd0zqKcEXdMVBJcCZFLDEzuxvfqNFEJhrLQZ6X a85atwAmS3J0ufaDnL92c8QR3yGRZyvaVglhEN6gAVCdR7CLD+g87mU6minpNV3eVp rEwTMaDpGXSqA== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4N0Rw90KGNz9rxD; Sun, 30 Oct 2022 07:59:04 +0100 (CET) From: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#57003: 28.1.90; Can local variables be loaded before loading major mode? In-Reply-To: <jwvmt9e6m3b.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> References: <87czdeoqy7.fsf@localhost> <87v8r54j3h.fsf@HIDDEN> <875yj5xzou.fsf@localhost> <jwvbkq9b6tw.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <87h6zni1uc.fsf@localhost> <jwvsfj6itry.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <87pmeaauib.fsf@localhost> <jwvmt9e6m3b.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2022 06:59:48 +0000 Message-ID: <875yg1aja3.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57003 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN>, 57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> writes: >> See https://list.orgmode.org/orgmode/878ro8kqwv.fsf@localhost/T/#u > > I didn't quite understand the problem from that thread. > > Your description above isn't very clear either On the one hand you say > "font-locking is not setup prior to that" but on the other you say > "Emacs will try to fontify the visible part of buffer" which only > happens if font-lock is setup, AFAIK. > > I suggest you open a bug report to get to the bottom of this. https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=58888 -- Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>. Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>, or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#57003; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 57003) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Oct 2022 04:00:38 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Oct 30 00:00:38 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37003 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1oozUz-0003d1-Qb for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 30 Oct 2022 00:00:38 -0400 Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]:34549) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <yantar92@HIDDEN>) id 1oozUu-0003cj-VH for 57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 30 Oct 2022 00:00:36 -0400 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3905F240027 for <57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 30 Oct 2022 05:00:26 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1667102427; bh=S4Z7xCa9klfb8cHEtD1e6KWomBctO1Q8bOAcgwcHo/c=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=JEhaIsLV1FAnyQG36lXGf3fmT0CCl8hlm/9IInOzoAmwt5BjFyuI72cAUGkDXfI98 P5cEGTUJQ73E4fdyD9482FYf3mxWWVhMdinFTcXqYktIO2XfngW46XLcYvYMB+r1ct KULXekt4Em4xou6HIQIbb+Ylfn10Qo0WrC7G+owcj0lhQugwtBswUe7GiCJlaiz/eu miNh/XiwRPLOd3/G3KvzGM5bYsFdKkv7A3TZEgjVsG0IRwM6ENENqO4zZX6dnJFEdC RDg12ywos1DN0WifY9V2yDUD0PI8poQDDS8BrMOmlMjCWe+TwgQXbX6CWEL+Q6I/U0 vzYvlZLnZ4g8w== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4N0My13yb7z9rxD; Sun, 30 Oct 2022 05:00:25 +0100 (CET) From: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#57003: 28.1.90; Can local variables be loaded before loading major mode? In-Reply-To: <jwvh6zm6kmv.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> References: <87czdeoqy7.fsf@localhost> <87v8r54j3h.fsf@HIDDEN> <875yj5xzou.fsf@localhost> <jwvbkq9b6tw.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <87h6zni1uc.fsf@localhost> <jwvsfj6itry.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <87pmeaauib.fsf@localhost> <jwvmt9e6m3b.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <jwvh6zm6kmv.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2022 04:01:08 +0000 Message-ID: <875yg2arjv.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57003 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN>, 57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> writes: >> Not really, no. I have no doubt that there are various (in addition to >> the one you mention above). > > Looking at some of the related code, I had a feeling of "d=C3=A9j=C3=A0 v= u": > `hack-local-variables-hook' indeed suffers from various gotchas > (starting with the non-intuitive name and the fact that it only > applies to file-visiting buffers) Does it mean that "Major modes can use this to examine user-specified local variables in order to initialize other data structure based on them." statement in the docstring of `hack-local-variables-hook' should be amended? > , and I think my recommendation was out > of date: the better answer is to use `after-change-major-mode-hook` the > `:after-hook` thingy of `define-derived-mode`. Will it run before or after org-mode-hook? > And the remaining gotcha (for Org's support of Emacs-25) is that in > Emacs<26 these were run *before* `hack-local-variables` :-( This is not a problem. Org officially supports Emacs >=3D26. No more need to keep Emacs 25 compatibility. See https://orgmode.org/worg/org-maintenance.html#emacs-compatibility --=20 Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>. Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>, or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#57003; Package emacs.
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#57003: 28.1.90; Can local variables be loaded before
loading major mode?
In-Reply-To: <jwvmt9e6m3b.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> (Stefan Monnier's message
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>>>> Will moving the whole major mode definition into
>>>> `hack-local-variables-hook' be safe?
>>> Define "safe". I'm sure it'll cause problems in corner cases.
>>> If those problems come down to the fact that `hack-local-variables-hook'
>>> doesn't fit the bill, then we can look at fixing that.
>> I was mostly asking if you are aware about any gotchas.
>
> Not really, no. I have no doubt that there are various (in addition to
> the one you mention above).
Looking at some of the related code, I had a feeling of "d=E9j=E0 vu":
`hack-local-variables-hook' indeed suffers from various gotchas
(starting with the non-intuitive name and the fact that it only
applies to file-visiting buffers), and I think my recommendation was out
of date: the better answer is to use `after-change-major-mode-hook` the
`:after-hook` thingy of `define-derived-mode`.
And the remaining gotcha (for Org's support of Emacs-25) is that in
Emacs<26 these were run *before* `hack-local-variables` :-(
Stefan
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#57003: 28.1.90; Can local variables be loaded before
loading major mode?
In-Reply-To: <87pmeaauib.fsf@localhost> (Ihor Radchenko's message of "Sun, 30
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>>> However, pretty much all the BODY in Org major mode definition will need
>>> to go into the hook. It feels awkward.
>> The body of a major mode should usually be limited to setting some
>> variables. All the font-lock highlighting, the imenu scanning, the
>> syntax-propertizing, etc... is done afterwards (the later the better).
> One issue I envision is when unsafe variable dialogue is being
> displayed. If font-locking is not setup prior to that, Emacs will try to
> fontify the visible part of buffer when displaying the dialogue and
> later font-lock settings may not fully apply.
>
> See https://list.orgmode.org/orgmode/878ro8kqwv.fsf@localhost/T/#u
I didn't quite understand the problem from that thread.
Your description above isn't very clear either On the one hand you say
"font-locking is not setup prior to that" but on the other you say
"Emacs will try to fontify the visible part of buffer" which only
happens if font-lock is setup, AFAIK.
I suggest you open a bug report to get to the bottom of this.
>> The act of folding is not part of "defining" the major mode in my
>> book :-)
> Indeed. However, a lot more things in Org mode depend on user
> customizations. For example, buffer-invisibility-spec may be changed
> depending on user settings, including settings defined in file-local
> variables.
I don't see a problem with postpone that to `hack-local-variables-hook', no.
[ Other approaches exist, of course, such as monitoring those config
vars and updating the other pieces of data that depend on them
whenever needed. ]
>>> Will moving the whole major mode definition into
>>> `hack-local-variables-hook' be safe?
>> Define "safe". I'm sure it'll cause problems in corner cases.
>> If those problems come down to the fact that `hack-local-variables-hook'
>> doesn't fit the bill, then we can look at fixing that.
> I was mostly asking if you are aware about any gotchas.
Not really, no. I have no doubt that there are various (in addition to
the one you mention above).
Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#57003; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 57003) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Oct 2022 02:56:46 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Oct 29 22:56:46 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36968 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1ooyVB-0001oN-Kl for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 29 Oct 2022 22:56:45 -0400 Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]:59587) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <yantar92@HIDDEN>) id 1ooyV7-0001o3-2d for 57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 29 Oct 2022 22:56:43 -0400 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 21C9F240101 for <57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 30 Oct 2022 03:56:34 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1667098595; bh=De0sBDQk0UbinkpLNI0dA9Oma5NrlcNNwo4cKWEy/Ho=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=lrx1F+cE7V4tEydu2V1vlCX5JUIbj7j+SbZ3tASCPVCU2DS0HhS51HL5hbt6zFsil 71Vk+k6WjvtDPKQIu9IDsk1NtBanGStV1eNPzTWaCdbm9L20nXa8XxBYYkrlYV3/RG Yz0L1j7gq+tgAjY7gZQWTwqsUJDAgHSaVlEU+ySslvhJ5U643wTUCNf/j+gstS9gMN QUVtN0UDOUuO6QvU8GIKAc0pdCcDhv5Awd0V6bB60JEtKXzoEBKlSZ0/o6JnO27EYd PXhMjMI/6MWoGScB3f0Doynjz/LHSmr+rVzlsnfMu+UpyjGbw6A2tJbw560zkD73Cy w6wC+P/HyXTLw== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4N0LXK1Twkz9rxF; Sun, 30 Oct 2022 03:56:32 +0100 (CET) From: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#57003: 28.1.90; Can local variables be loaded before loading major mode? In-Reply-To: <jwvsfj6itry.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> References: <87czdeoqy7.fsf@localhost> <87v8r54j3h.fsf@HIDDEN> <875yj5xzou.fsf@localhost> <jwvbkq9b6tw.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <87h6zni1uc.fsf@localhost> <jwvsfj6itry.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2022 02:57:16 +0000 Message-ID: <87pmeaauib.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57003 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN>, 57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> writes: >> However, pretty much all the BODY in Org major mode definition will need >> to go into the hook. It feels awkward. > > The body of a major mode should usually be limited to setting some > variables. All the font-lock highlighting, the imenu scanning, the > syntax-propertizing, etc... is done afterwards (the later the better). One issue I envision is when unsafe variable dialogue is being displayed. If font-locking is not setup prior to that, Emacs will try to fontify the visible part of buffer when displaying the dialogue and later font-lock settings may not fully apply. See https://list.orgmode.org/orgmode/878ro8kqwv.fsf@localhost/T/#u > The act of folding is not part of "defining" the major mode in my > book :-) Indeed. However, a lot more things in Org mode depend on user customizations. For example, buffer-invisibility-spec may be changed depending on user settings, including settings defined in file-local variables. >> Will moving the whole major mode definition into >> `hack-local-variables-hook' be safe? > > Define "safe". I'm sure it'll cause problems in corner cases. > If those problems come down to the fact that `hack-local-variables-hook' > doesn't fit the bill, then we can look at fixing that. I was mostly asking if you are aware about any gotchas. As I stated above, there is at least one gotcha with early fontification when unsafe variable dialogue is being shown. -- Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>. Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>, or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#57003: 28.1.90; Can local variables be loaded before
loading major mode?
In-Reply-To: <87h6zni1uc.fsf@localhost> (Ihor Radchenko's message of "Sat, 29
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>> The problem is not that the variables are set too late,it's that you
>> fold too early: the folding should not to take place from within
>> `org-mode` but instead `org-mode` should add the folding function to
>> `hack-local-variables-hook`.
>>
>> What you request is a common need, and `hack-local-variables-hook` is
>> the standard answer.
>
> I guess that it can be an option. Though such hook will also need to be
> guarded against repetitive execution (if `hack-local-variables' is
> called by some minor mode or a command).
>
> However, pretty much all the BODY in Org major mode definition will need
> to go into the hook. It feels awkward.
The body of a major mode should usually be limited to setting some
variables. All the font-lock highlighting, the imenu scanning, the
syntax-propertizing, etc... is done afterwards (the later the better).
The act of folding is not part of "defining" the major mode in my
book :-)
> Will moving the whole major mode definition into
> `hack-local-variables-hook' be safe?
Define "safe". I'm sure it'll cause problems in corner cases.
If those problems come down to the fact that `hack-local-variables-hook'
doesn't fit the bill, then we can look at fixing that.
Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#57003; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 57003) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Oct 2022 06:24:12 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Oct 29 02:24:12 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34815 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1oofGN-0002Mx-Rn for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 29 Oct 2022 02:24:12 -0400 Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]:58349) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <yantar92@HIDDEN>) id 1oofGL-0002Mg-Ck for 57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 29 Oct 2022 02:24:10 -0400 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6F388240103 for <57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 29 Oct 2022 08:24:01 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1667024643; bh=/mCSV7bcN/pXy22yBsZ3uU4j1x5TI6HzLs1zC3qb5zU=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=lPd61DPqxhG4Jx+98+mGDfRPh4D4euHHjOIs83OKl9wjYCpSkk9y269tLigCH3Mal TW+IGosAfuH+V+yFci3ASl7/RT1cbD4YC5sYRjivZoVGumrEBOBj9iAxzsKN1DUCko nuHV+erprf0XFmaBD5TUzYJGNG3eOGHN3RxxTdxO7Szz7S12+giIu5TNJuWMJsPBBS fJF4u3h3nOS9LqMbCjFTv7MOIGm0oJHUyaCMf0cjiNwvLGwWlZizQXTp+gTLrtz5n7 3Vy1hFF/RgcmS5s8eQvoaEzeqrYpFhYytaa9jPFYHh/PymN0kNc9SZT9ycW05JprG+ UMp4bF4wSFj4A== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4MzqB82cP3z6tmM; Sat, 29 Oct 2022 08:23:59 +0200 (CEST) From: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#57003: 28.1.90; Can local variables be loaded before loading major mode? In-Reply-To: <jwvbkq9b6tw.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> References: <87czdeoqy7.fsf@localhost> <87v8r54j3h.fsf@HIDDEN> <875yj5xzou.fsf@localhost> <jwvbkq9b6tw.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2022 06:24:43 +0000 Message-ID: <87h6zni1uc.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57003 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN>, 57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> writes: > The problem is not that the variables are set too late,it's that you > fold too early: the folding should not to take place from within > `org-mode` but instead `org-mode` should add the folding function to > `hack-local-variables-hook`. > > What you request is a common need, and `hack-local-variables-hook` is > the standard answer. I guess that it can be an option. Though such hook will also need to be guarded against repetitive execution (if `hack-local-variables' is called by some minor mode or a command). However, pretty much all the BODY in Org major mode definition will need to go into the hook. It feels awkward. Will moving the whole major mode definition into `hack-local-variables-hook' be safe? -- Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>. Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>, or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#57003; Package emacs.
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#57003: 28.1.90; Can local variables be loaded before
loading major mode?
In-Reply-To: <875yj5xzou.fsf@localhost> (Ihor Radchenko's message of "Sat, 06
Aug 2022 21:35:13 +0800")
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> We have a variable org-startup-folded:
>
> Non-nil means entering Org mode will switch to OVERVIEW.
>
> This variable controls the initial state of the Org buffer.
> When, non-nil, headings will be folded at the end of Org initialization.
> This folding happens inside org-mode specification and hence setting the
> variable after Org mode is loaded makes no difference.
The problem is not that the variables are set too late,it's that you
fold too early: the folding should not to take place from within
`org-mode` but instead `org-mode` should add the folding function to
`hack-local-variables-hook`.
What you request is a common need, and `hack-local-variables-hook` is
the standard answer.
Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#57003; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 57003) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Aug 2022 03:28:12 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Aug 30 23:28:12 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37880 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1oTEOi-0001Cr-Gl for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 30 Aug 2022 23:28:12 -0400 Received: from mail-pl1-f171.google.com ([209.85.214.171]:46004) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <yantar92@HIDDEN>) id 1oTEOg-0001Cc-Au for 57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 30 Aug 2022 23:28:11 -0400 Received: by mail-pl1-f171.google.com with SMTP id u22so12961065plq.12 for <57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 30 Aug 2022 20:28:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to :from:from:to:cc; bh=mSk4BEaofDUk+UIrVzul40uwG9N8ReenpCWcJFHkDdU=; b=ia0XjIpm+CI2ch/y5Env0C3heIzKLyl5kTWKEE4Vp3ZulPRMS5tvtGyBHUosyy4J3h 1IhQCczJ9kcdYs+HzWEhWz8aeFLUwaNh8AfCbZf18kE47OvxQaiSRGwgB+k9mZtYZS2X 1u5OP23MnvjwhIkp3/f6KiCrlP8rWUr+FOMfegLHgVZCjWIyMGj0/beJBSzx49KWy2rG 4+ur1oSEmUNb8WnHexOcZRTm/Sl9PcBSUBncs+UScrdl4JqzoOBIIcZyr48a7VfQat5Q pdgsu2o+diQ+/ptVgNsif16Fiofi1ah0ycQBQl591m4dkSoo8130fdW5gcyXj6HfKjLK 0i8A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=mime-version:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to :from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc; bh=mSk4BEaofDUk+UIrVzul40uwG9N8ReenpCWcJFHkDdU=; b=0xPuOMhj4zmZtL/dvhrkQjRyGiqPHmZjVCBQDrXWCOGVNjaytC+ZZKWCT+SX1xghDD 6d2/p5+16vkcKYw8SwKR3Nhdte2oL5h3RH0uucHgs5UUUQ4sZIMuWCy2Lk5HxhygUC0s r5j7B9g0frXPRPRxXDnPMXJeIE/2zhPVpqVjFe9enOlkbGRtNaF97U3HmnEc8tygSJ4/ wydOidF/05cqB+zrtxaGXUNpW6xZv9S3uWgg7ARbLQVGQ7xMSN2FeH37fArOAYE3le8N kxPhsdP2oFd6EcLdJSFDJWoD/fnSikraR8K1JOtMLTvBVkPcQUM43IAyBTGT7uDznZOE W8MQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ACgBeo333h6Isi6q9Pfk399BSG9wptNzOeEXoMxDEx+W+tmtU8O1XXe+ 2U26DlU9aJgU4fiD/NnBDRo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA6agR5WZvzdDlTR76a1OEavRC6TJNE9mvitut585j2tTHbcaCRJpYRVbZXmGsdaiK+mJDLvxhVgwQ== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:cec7:b0:172:5b09:161c with SMTP id d7-20020a170902cec700b001725b09161cmr23231998plg.60.1661916484547; Tue, 30 Aug 2022 20:28:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([115.154.175.57]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m20-20020a17090ade1400b001fad1f975casm323397pjv.12.2022.08.30.20.28.03 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 30 Aug 2022 20:28:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> To: rms@HIDDEN Subject: Re: bug#57003: 28.1.90; Can local variables be loaded before loading major mode? In-Reply-To: <E1oSVXx-0008BG-HH@HIDDEN> References: <87czdeoqy7.fsf@localhost> <875yj5xzou.fsf@localhost> <875yj443zy.fsf@HIDDEN> <874jyo6vd6.fsf@localhost> <87k07k18ro.fsf@HIDDEN> <871qts6tzy.fsf@localhost> <87bksv0ya6.fsf@HIDDEN> <87edxqzzm6.fsf@localhost> <87leryzzdl.fsf@HIDDEN> <87a68ezycj.fsf@localhost> <875yj2zudw.fsf@HIDDEN> <871qtp64eq.fsf@localhost> <878rntskld.fsf@HIDDEN> <877d3c7by7.fsf@localhost> <87h72gjr3a.fsf@HIDDEN> <87ilmw5o4j.fsf@localhost> <E1oNQTp-0006TB-JE@HIDDEN> <87k07ayz7u.fsf@localhost> <E1oO98j-0008Lb-Um@HIDDEN> <87wnb7yyfb.fsf@localhost> <E1oSVXx-0008BG-HH@HIDDEN> Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2022 11:29:08 +0800 Message-ID: <87o7w1ozuj.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57003 Cc: larsi@HIDDEN, 57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> writes: > That's the right thing to do. However, your previous message seemed > to imply a problem, because it proposed loading these buffer-local > variables "before executing the major mode body", and that would be > before `kill-all-local-variables'. That function would kill these new > bindings, unless it were prevented from doing so. I was referring to define-derived-mode macro, where `kill-all-local-variables' is actually called before BODY argument. Of course, as Lars pointed, some major modes may not use `define-derived-mode' and the meaning of "body" is different. The major modes that do not use define-derived-mode are actually problematic. While we can expect `kill-all-local-variables' to be called early even in such major modes, the mode symbol is not yet known by the time `kill-all-local-variables' is called. I am not sure how to approach the proposed 'early-local property for mode-specific file/directory-local variables in such scenario. -- Ihor Radchenko, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at https://orgmode.org/. Support Org development at https://liberapay.com/org-mode, or support my work at https://liberapay.com/yantar92
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#57003; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 57003) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Aug 2022 03:34:53 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Aug 28 23:34:53 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59843 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1oSVY5-0007se-Dc for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 28 Aug 2022 23:34:53 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:53124) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1oSVY3-0007sK-CZ for 57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 28 Aug 2022 23:34:51 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:57222) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1oSVXy-0004wi-1E; Sun, 28 Aug 2022 23:34:46 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=RxmqoRi+T1eZMXRgFuu0g9x4/6Wm4QGmMIRCMQtPNd0=; b=eSiEdN7uLRVj 49c3p7l9uVMU+nPYHlnk6Xa3gil2dxlVzh8mQjknXkA7M3jYfZ2Gop4FBgWtxWpgYZQFnws8aJUaJ F6ajOxNzy7vxS+4tj43ZShN9BO9FRS9RRfmMBmcx2KNLOVHzhjp37oN2fvS0id9lIuxRkQkGQ3RBG Sh3iUa9RR7xSz3hvr+CVKY884M6YeLJfDAOkwnvcXPgEfDXd10EnQlexpPldMah/QasMH9Dwf2xQk H2+bDm4/YNOdcoDyjgfggrTirN1uHWevnYb+lPx+Z8oDoVS9nzTKb7mqedVsffmspMvK40PRivE2Y OR2whvbCDV9w8QgC61udJw==; Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1oSVXx-0008BG-HH; Sun, 28 Aug 2022 23:34:45 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> To: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <87wnb7yyfb.fsf@localhost> (message from Ihor Radchenko on Wed, 17 Aug 2022 18:08:56 +0800) Subject: Re: bug#57003: 28.1.90; Can local variables be loaded before loading major mode? References: <87czdeoqy7.fsf@localhost> <87v8r54j3h.fsf@HIDDEN> <875yj5xzou.fsf@localhost> <875yj443zy.fsf@HIDDEN> <874jyo6vd6.fsf@localhost> <87k07k18ro.fsf@HIDDEN> <871qts6tzy.fsf@localhost> <87bksv0ya6.fsf@HIDDEN> <87edxqzzm6.fsf@localhost> <87leryzzdl.fsf@HIDDEN> <87a68ezycj.fsf@localhost> <875yj2zudw.fsf@HIDDEN> <871qtp64eq.fsf@localhost> <878rntskld.fsf@HIDDEN> <877d3c7by7.fsf@localhost> <87h72gjr3a.fsf@HIDDEN> <87ilmw5o4j.fsf@localhost> <E1oNQTp-0006TB-JE@HIDDEN> <87k07ayz7u.fsf@localhost> <E1oO98j-0008Lb-Um@HIDDEN> <87wnb7yyfb.fsf@localhost> Message-Id: <E1oSVXx-0008BG-HH@HIDDEN> Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2022 23:34:45 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57003 Cc: larsi@HIDDEN, 57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Reply-To: rms@HIDDEN Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > > 'early-local will apply file/directory-local variables _before_ executing > > > the major-mode body. In contrast, the variables without this property > > > are applied _after_ executing the major-mode body. > > > > I suppose you'll do something to protect those local variables from > > `kill-all-local-variables' so it won't kill them. > No. Not killing the _already existing_ local variables is what > 'persistent-local is for. What I am proposing here is only relevant to > buffer-local and directory-local variables that are going to be loaded > anyway. The change will only affect _when_ they are loaded. That's the right thing to do. However, your previous message seemed to imply a problem, because it proposed loading these buffer-local variables "before executing the major mode body", and that would be before `kill-all-local-variables'. That function would kill these new bindings, unless it were prevented from doing so. Now I think that was just my misundersanding. So I am relieved. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#57003; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 57003) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Aug 2022 10:08:02 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Aug 17 06:08:02 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49462 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1oOFxx-0006oM-QI for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 17 Aug 2022 06:08:02 -0400 Received: from mail-oi1-f177.google.com ([209.85.167.177]:33779) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <yantar92@HIDDEN>) id 1oOFxv-0006ns-DS for 57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 17 Aug 2022 06:08:00 -0400 Received: by mail-oi1-f177.google.com with SMTP id v125so236304oie.0 for <57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 17 Aug 2022 03:07:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to :from:from:to:cc; bh=0koI18j1lddN+/NGQhGZU3nA9K41zZGexN9r6QhX7+A=; b=AkAPfYHsiZRDygvDgWZ6LHMor9ynLwKmnDHGa5MUQh3UCvgGEdxxSXdgfLHR9NDbIB UjGDUbo3NSU8ahM3LC/mNyGDe8HVfBlFnhkdpF9l4xx6dy4/CpHB6vC5GujgQ8bAqZDg NU9W8gZ5gGgmJ2Ev9oR5SCxdCokQTBMPYVByiDeDG0GwLEnpQy0Wvn6tVuARAafxxXzN 6FWfZ1go9Qk3sz3Mabpfy4wdmnWLvgGgxvzK5Y038o9ysSHYJmPWOvLfyV/bHdv3Gk6l 7TOtXVYly5IhfSmilN+oCEgOstbG8JDAafWfhCRfuEJSdPb4g6F+Ei1vxv7YY8QHAwWX uLRA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=mime-version:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to :from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc; bh=0koI18j1lddN+/NGQhGZU3nA9K41zZGexN9r6QhX7+A=; b=BJ91C/ywiRVITS2A6GTFxQTI4J/iC0evl7cJPtomlmejIJ3UV+ydfUJWKA0xPp4f/E TYpYWF+yiPf627fvcTWLJS4RR0un9aCRVByH1uNS5WOt9VIlWb2GOItHxT/pDFf7mAED SfM+11gRxBzJw2ZZ7hfeUWBdzqTbB7Dx2cgRMdeE9rj1Rzu9CjykuFLhTm2TPnaFF1X6 QqzghvXE/I7WJpsODOi/i9BeQUV6NvH4oMYYocWyeAoeiQ0Oi0bztlUTb5Inamq7sWop FIgK1V0PAkid3kXI0sPixV3813Yhuf92gxZFdz1if1Hrcjknif1CrozdX8YwJaRTheOP 0Z2A== X-Gm-Message-State: ACgBeo0JE1LxxMQgjXGt5beQ71YaJjRh5+PL1SFFR87FNwtQalB+rhHg KpkLVyzhHrwG2GlewsSHhAliRHjyikq52J4Atak= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA6agR7mmeij2hWVKsmzj63qxBjarVVt+s8YhfRe4boOwJD6D90jN7y/BL4Mw13bxE/WnvYlLxcBIw== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:1b0b:b0:343:60fc:b610 with SMTP id bx11-20020a0568081b0b00b0034360fcb610mr1075299oib.133.1660730873775; Wed, 17 Aug 2022 03:07:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([115.154.175.57]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id o18-20020a05680803d200b0034290c4ed01sm2855069oie.41.2022.08.17.03.07.51 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 17 Aug 2022 03:07:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> To: rms@HIDDEN Subject: Re: bug#57003: 28.1.90; Can local variables be loaded before loading major mode? In-Reply-To: <E1oO98j-0008Lb-Um@HIDDEN> References: <87czdeoqy7.fsf@localhost> <87v8r54j3h.fsf@HIDDEN> <875yj5xzou.fsf@localhost> <875yj443zy.fsf@HIDDEN> <874jyo6vd6.fsf@localhost> <87k07k18ro.fsf@HIDDEN> <871qts6tzy.fsf@localhost> <87bksv0ya6.fsf@HIDDEN> <87edxqzzm6.fsf@localhost> <87leryzzdl.fsf@HIDDEN> <87a68ezycj.fsf@localhost> <875yj2zudw.fsf@HIDDEN> <871qtp64eq.fsf@localhost> <878rntskld.fsf@HIDDEN> <877d3c7by7.fsf@localhost> <87h72gjr3a.fsf@HIDDEN> <87ilmw5o4j.fsf@localhost> <E1oNQTp-0006TB-JE@HIDDEN> <87k07ayz7u.fsf@localhost> <E1oO98j-0008Lb-Um@HIDDEN> Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2022 18:08:56 +0800 Message-ID: <87wnb7yyfb.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57003 Cc: larsi@HIDDEN, 57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> writes: > > 'early-local will apply file/directory-local variables _before_ executing > > the major-mode body. In contrast, the variables without this property > > are applied _after_ executing the major-mode body. > > I suppose you'll do something to protect those local variables from > `kill-all-local-variables' so it won't kill them. No. Not killing the _already existing_ local variables is what 'persistent-local is for. What I am proposing here is only relevant to buffer-local and directory-local variables that are going to be loaded anyway. The change will only affect _when_ they are loaded. > Will it distinguish THIS major mode's early local variables from the > early local variables of the PREVIOUS major mode? Those ought to be > killed with all the rest. I do not propose to keep the local variable values from the previous major mode. What I suggest is running a part of hack-local-variables earlier. Either way, file/directory-local variables will be set in the buffer. Hope I clarified the confusion. -- Ihor Radchenko, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at https://orgmode.org/. Support Org development at https://liberapay.com/org-mode, or support my work at https://liberapay.com/yantar92
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#57003; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 57003) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Aug 2022 02:50:51 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Aug 16 22:50:51 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48882 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1oO98t-0001j0-9X for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Aug 2022 22:50:51 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:43652) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1oO98p-0001iU-Eb for 57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Aug 2022 22:50:47 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:36346) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1oO98k-0002jX-7w; Tue, 16 Aug 2022 22:50:42 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=GmrSnOyWvWy3legmKUtwGeyKmD/1B+hkwBgRuu5e4/E=; b=EoYLXiSNhvJu fi9iHGq3LIbavF6KgfN/aSjHcNQBuMTqWBm0dMO4HW8p5YiwxsaWyhVV1/UDV4UnLrzg23gEcfpE0 8lFM5n9U4Bd8PEIwB7YcQCh1AOARwj3D3EcwUPdS5LKHMMyxtiaNyQofjh7ioHsDnW6luuSezdcbq OO3M9XcDusZZFSYrWQLz2CE0BfPk1xS893CZFJzE9oRbhL8nziMCF0ZBRyI2FjJZ+djTj2t5n52CY HyFPercwmdX4TdG6Nj+zW1hH1HTWhuRkFa8Gn2jlKUNLb8BvngcyJOa3KLBZU0EbzUX8QR8yjd6TB dXLYQdl+0fXKEkt6vbTeeQ==; Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1oO98j-0008Lb-Um; Tue, 16 Aug 2022 22:50:41 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> To: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <87k07ayz7u.fsf@localhost> (message from Ihor Radchenko on Mon, 15 Aug 2022 11:15:01 +0800) Subject: Re: bug#57003: 28.1.90; Can local variables be loaded before loading major mode? References: <87czdeoqy7.fsf@localhost> <87v8r54j3h.fsf@HIDDEN> <875yj5xzou.fsf@localhost> <875yj443zy.fsf@HIDDEN> <874jyo6vd6.fsf@localhost> <87k07k18ro.fsf@HIDDEN> <871qts6tzy.fsf@localhost> <87bksv0ya6.fsf@HIDDEN> <87edxqzzm6.fsf@localhost> <87leryzzdl.fsf@HIDDEN> <87a68ezycj.fsf@localhost> <875yj2zudw.fsf@HIDDEN> <871qtp64eq.fsf@localhost> <878rntskld.fsf@HIDDEN> <877d3c7by7.fsf@localhost> <87h72gjr3a.fsf@HIDDEN> <87ilmw5o4j.fsf@localhost> <E1oNQTp-0006TB-JE@HIDDEN> <87k07ayz7u.fsf@localhost> Message-Id: <E1oO98j-0008Lb-Um@HIDDEN> Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2022 22:50:41 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57003 Cc: larsi@HIDDEN, 57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Reply-To: rms@HIDDEN Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > 'early-local will apply file/directory-local variables _before_ executing > the major-mode body. In contrast, the variables without this property > are applied _after_ executing the major-mode body. I suppose you'll do something to protect those local variables from `kill-all-local-variables' so it won't kill them. Will it distinguish THIS major mode's early local variables from the early local variables of the PREVIOUS major mode? Those ought to be killed with all the rest. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#57003; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 57003) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Aug 2022 03:14:06 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Aug 14 23:14:06 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40227 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1oNQYH-0005Cx-T7 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 14 Aug 2022 23:14:06 -0400 Received: from mail-pg1-f181.google.com ([209.85.215.181]:45032) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <yantar92@HIDDEN>) id 1oNQYG-0005CM-1n for 57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 14 Aug 2022 23:14:05 -0400 Received: by mail-pg1-f181.google.com with SMTP id c24so5546653pgg.11 for <57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 14 Aug 2022 20:14:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to :from:from:to:cc; bh=+y5yBgJtqwcd5tzgw6Milth9dzbBLtp2PZkqcesDQuI=; b=INIbTPwCh4Yye1tPfzoA7k2FBFqONee7XVmobW6ywAXqx609ugDnsmkhwO0sWgOXaH xf1vwIROvzs/7TK4m3dEaiRTgscOWoZiBiNmNfmew6EDpfCo9Yw7A/dhpo+MqIkZSeCg /rSvrlKQUWn/0iZhPFAsHRWqOJ1M02Kc/0ps9B968xKL5dyVxCco2PQWaZvtXxE1qKHS ecWdAmH9dPotnx/o6MCqmD1Kwei4L9zjuSl4B1pi6um+AfvAgSfcLnSivWIdgJ0RZKfz 8S1cHcYrbX7RKiZFB0L18BdkvdB19RNG3514pW/dhBroU+UQFfF0NV0Aeewqktfif7hc 4jIA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=mime-version:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to :from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc; bh=+y5yBgJtqwcd5tzgw6Milth9dzbBLtp2PZkqcesDQuI=; b=7+csUd5kJ/SwoH60w/RxfjIpDk2qltMRIqy4RyZlt5Quh6lFWuS2cJWdVPMLLt8fCg jzATrFNg9xDpHvcAZVyAbSU3FNrotYoCCXycLX9Khddabyysg4Vebkadq6QdpwGFDrsK PKLdeU29fDUHjC35GjzWPnGbS5btx3twlxi9nOQji7lJJ6qJ47hfrF+JBCGBVBYfIDXP Jh78OYO5z6rS08gaLI5M0nyh9KLGg5114llpaHNYplsuk9UqO/78YTDKEwBLcvbW+msT q9B9+Y4NZiaGHD2TI4lvZluvBg0mVCavzFuotpLov/Bp8W9nTJjPI9i0D7FHT/peujMB geYQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ACgBeo0wCUvFyxo8ud4+GQ1HpE04/MXyFxi6QleqxGYOkhyCUxJY8wkt ZgWLLEHqh5BceObCCUUh9K6tIORtNKBE6PFH X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA6agR7FJY6bZOLy/FsNk6rOZB7hTk+1dOksUAce/k70rFVQlg31uVZry9ZJDFOO0WV1k6z4MjyL3g== X-Received: by 2002:a63:e901:0:b0:422:4d27:5814 with SMTP id i1-20020a63e901000000b004224d275814mr10908410pgh.317.1660533238432; Sun, 14 Aug 2022 20:13:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([115.154.175.57]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id z6-20020a1709027e8600b0016d7afee272sm6048296pla.153.2022.08.14.20.13.57 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 14 Aug 2022 20:13:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> To: rms@HIDDEN Subject: Re: bug#57003: 28.1.90; Can local variables be loaded before loading major mode? In-Reply-To: <E1oNQTp-0006TB-JE@HIDDEN> References: <87czdeoqy7.fsf@localhost> <87v8r54j3h.fsf@HIDDEN> <875yj5xzou.fsf@localhost> <875yj443zy.fsf@HIDDEN> <874jyo6vd6.fsf@localhost> <87k07k18ro.fsf@HIDDEN> <871qts6tzy.fsf@localhost> <87bksv0ya6.fsf@HIDDEN> <87edxqzzm6.fsf@localhost> <87leryzzdl.fsf@HIDDEN> <87a68ezycj.fsf@localhost> <875yj2zudw.fsf@HIDDEN> <871qtp64eq.fsf@localhost> <878rntskld.fsf@HIDDEN> <877d3c7by7.fsf@localhost> <87h72gjr3a.fsf@HIDDEN> <87ilmw5o4j.fsf@localhost> <E1oNQTp-0006TB-JE@HIDDEN> Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2022 11:15:01 +0800 Message-ID: <87k07ayz7u.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57003 Cc: larsi@HIDDEN, 57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> writes: > > Maybe something like 'early-local property instead of 'permanent-local? > > It will not break the existing cases, while allowing the major modes or > > users to mark the variables that are safe to load early. > > Could you spell out the behavior you propose `early-local' to have? > From those three lines, I am not sure what it would do. 'early-local will apply file/directory-local variables _before_ executing the major-mode body. In contrast, the variables without this property are applied _after_ executing the major-mode body. Currently, all the file/directory-locals are applied after executing the major-mode body. -- Ihor Radchenko, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at https://orgmode.org/. Support Org development at https://liberapay.com/org-mode, or support my work at https://liberapay.com/yantar92
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#57003; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 57003) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Aug 2022 03:09:39 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Aug 14 23:09:39 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40213 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1oNQTz-00055f-E8 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 14 Aug 2022 23:09:39 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:39408) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1oNQTv-00055Q-Iz for 57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 14 Aug 2022 23:09:38 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:58906) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1oNQTq-0006CW-9a; Sun, 14 Aug 2022 23:09:30 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=s/a4KQLGJZk8/fwuXkqvwm9P0L+5GX6lyzciUj10P3k=; b=AssYg99L+Spp UDdAXEqjb+I65+aWackr72zV06OVnEwvKKe+shrIfuC38JAjqm2uU8sYS43oCQv7l+nsi9ovlzbsA z2Jwc5N8DnMxMhrXYg/6sStjdrIn57skJOKjLQAw2inwfJ7W6orcqOJ9c/zs7ibq8G7x3qJQtvxiu E71tqPTA5iCklWSthg0v8jUiUi0rZaF5n2kS8FG7Nq/6b/Zo1cwc9iqf6MpAGj+3eZAXKkE0B7QXY DJEon7deRz+LGQ4WNi3HM3RJjvZQuErij8I7NpMAe/9KJPxamVpQc2fAesNIf8bVGEQVnx0ecV1Pq 1OrKYCnyqvNIn3+wSc+ckg==; Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1oNQTp-0006TB-JE; Sun, 14 Aug 2022 23:09:29 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> To: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <87ilmw5o4j.fsf@localhost> (message from Ihor Radchenko on Sat, 13 Aug 2022 20:22:52 +0800) Subject: Re: bug#57003: 28.1.90; Can local variables be loaded before loading major mode? References: <87czdeoqy7.fsf@localhost> <87v8r54j3h.fsf@HIDDEN> <875yj5xzou.fsf@localhost> <875yj443zy.fsf@HIDDEN> <874jyo6vd6.fsf@localhost> <87k07k18ro.fsf@HIDDEN> <871qts6tzy.fsf@localhost> <87bksv0ya6.fsf@HIDDEN> <87edxqzzm6.fsf@localhost> <87leryzzdl.fsf@HIDDEN> <87a68ezycj.fsf@localhost> <875yj2zudw.fsf@HIDDEN> <871qtp64eq.fsf@localhost> <878rntskld.fsf@HIDDEN> <877d3c7by7.fsf@localhost> <87h72gjr3a.fsf@HIDDEN> <87ilmw5o4j.fsf@localhost> Message-Id: <E1oNQTp-0006TB-JE@HIDDEN> Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2022 23:09:29 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57003 Cc: larsi@HIDDEN, 57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Reply-To: rms@HIDDEN Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > So I'd really prefer a new way to specify "early variables", but I have > > no idea how that'd look in practice. Perhaps just a new thing in > > .dir-local.el, making that backwards-compatible is a challenge in > > itself. > Maybe something like 'early-local property instead of 'permanent-local? > It will not break the existing cases, while allowing the major modes or > users to mark the variables that are safe to load early. Could you spell out the behavior you propose `early-local' to have? From those three lines, I am not sure what it would do. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#57003; Package emacs.
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In-Reply-To: <87ilmw5o4j.fsf@localhost> (Ihor Radchenko's message of "Sat, 13 Aug 2022 20:22:52 +0800") References: <87czdeoqy7.fsf@localhost> <87v8r54j3h.fsf@HIDDEN> <875yj5xzou.fsf@localhost> <875yj443zy.fsf@HIDDEN> <874jyo6vd6.fsf@localhost> <87k07k18ro.fsf@HIDDEN> <871qts6tzy.fsf@localhost> <87bksv0ya6.fsf@HIDDEN> <87edxqzzm6.fsf@localhost> <87leryzzdl.fsf@HIDDEN> <87a68ezycj.fsf@localhost> <875yj2zudw.fsf@HIDDEN> <871qtp64eq.fsf@localhost> <878rntskld.fsf@HIDDEN> <877d3c7by7.fsf@localhost> <87h72gjr3a.fsf@HIDDEN> <87ilmw5o4j.fsf@localhost> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAFVBMVEXWm5WzlJixZWlX QEnCgX0YEBj///+frFP4AAAAAWJLR0QGYWa4fQAAAAd0SU1FB+YIDQweOUyNj5AAAAG0SURBVDjL XZNRlusgCIZp631vZgU9aDYg43smdTYQTva/lQuCmo4PbQ9f+X9ABOjntvhBjEQE8/wsyxMGGeFQ 9cByMxAHWJ6bfS9fqkTw9ITFf/xYnIByi1SwBNjNWwAR4narHldAORqgk/LwqhWtqrOd754AdyTz MPAa4EEWcVC3UD3jvALe9pafcYPSATXRQn7SBEkGKAnsZICTc5IuQvyINw+mJONzVD7NM1bJ0jF9 As1qSLz+gIZEscZyAV1A+pA5fZijS+ioLadlZL3UvQxN6hnftQ0qTjsHmGyAX6PY4uA1lmsU+QfA egGcLlvXp65A73ubYDb4miDAnQdgWys7+c1D6mg37SlYprlV5HU9Zrnc1UVvr4UHyCaiKxrgTWMs gH0zBWC8eKA/myBtPjhOD29bNi7B/VgvoHmEhIWxHOXszFoLe3qXM59ZaDYbG4YugQxNgnk9/hlo CaHqymapKjLCBPqMBCCuXPILfhsIqlV1aVhX55AqQwO7tty26dgVbH6NUm6APdXIlJM48OajBNRX 1qRkDVfRG0Bel0i1ovQzdSlEfcLyXykKtQL5m5r/B0or0xJYJ1b3AAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOmNyZWF0 ZQAyMDIyLTA4LTEzVDEyOjMwOjU3KzAwOjAwbPXPkAAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTptb2RpZnkAMjAyMi0w OC0xM1QxMjozMDo1NyswMDowMB2odywAAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-Now-Playing: Joni Mitchell's _Chalk Mark In A Rain Storm_: "Number One" Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2022 14:32:57 +0200 Message-ID: <871qtkiarq.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> writes: > Maybe something like 'early-local property instead of 'permanent-local? > It will not break the existing cases, while allowing the major modes or > users to mark the variables that are safe to load [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57003 Cc: 57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> writes: > Maybe something like 'early-local property instead of 'permanent-local? > It will not break the existing cases, while allowing the major modes or > users to mark the variables that are safe to load early. Hm, yes, that sounds like a possibility.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#57003; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 57003) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Aug 2022 12:21:58 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Aug 13 08:21:58 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59955 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1oMq9O-0002k5-2d for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 13 Aug 2022 08:21:58 -0400 Received: from mail-pl1-f177.google.com ([209.85.214.177]:37809) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <yantar92@HIDDEN>) id 1oMq9M-0002jq-DI for 57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 13 Aug 2022 08:21:56 -0400 Received: by mail-pl1-f177.google.com with SMTP id m2so2845274pls.4 for <57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 13 Aug 2022 05:21:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to :from:from:to:cc; bh=4+quR1fy76FJLSkGohcl75WFiqUnAAqMzvlQuUmVvHA=; b=Np/a74Y98obr0kzPlLNmce9nSWXefrLoHcgPl60PnYXsDPivXGuTSrYzF/uvNxq/y8 I+/j2RdjBLlz4046yUPNZ8MThJk/JGmU9pRj0tqDVsbCpYgAbejhzzhrtoTRDk2gIB4b 1y2Bpp1y5OWyQGycshxTPlIqsGBhvDZm4l6uMTX6DvzuNRrS9MO+6dD+RL3JJ7EMnjNp ql9WE+jBJs8HRD27xWz7vMQUXYp7PuwYF5kioNYsL+vD5Bd6oJSk4InODQQHrDoAX2x1 +hlZ5Xl2nTm43bZoWIGIpc1ZuYljNjRl2PZDnI1jc313AOpAfO9qJRVvcRcdUx+r4354 jmTA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=mime-version:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to :from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc; bh=4+quR1fy76FJLSkGohcl75WFiqUnAAqMzvlQuUmVvHA=; b=L4VmCoaMvFq28dUT59+AFYeZBXLF4TJMdgTdrqszL8IMeHtJyKQTf6084ecY4pa9eH kN5cGqWD7Ji2YI8lK5p4AvAcHV+4lQwWK8iZoLXzies1cnekw2Jo0A7E7UBqsMDFnHc6 QgP1DMo+jIWqF3UQ74wXuY3x48QwhPJDsNmLmOz/iRuE5KZ8Zr9EswOXjrExJysNY4Zl i4oZUhfQjhjOjBZF8SPElLz83hDc9Tnyh7kSYuw/0Rx9V061sgUB3K6z7DVrjeWJSfgb HvEGeEbDnWbD61eOnxmq1Ia5Uc+yeH+fx5KT2Qdhx5nx1lyzuJMvbS3Axi7CVjkXdp6F U8KA== X-Gm-Message-State: ACgBeo3Wy4BHIK34qNd3eGbAO4UBSteUu9Er6YbI3ZypCQoxvOaenbMo k3L3vSTKtTM9OKhKgxeV4oU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA6agR6QCA9+4Bko075VUcxzcWpnD8sT5vpX+A5w90c7zCcpJiX+et8wLiHrm8MkkdM4k/msSp62lQ== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:e394:b0:171:3f46:1f13 with SMTP id g20-20020a170902e39400b001713f461f13mr7943530ple.174.1660393310634; Sat, 13 Aug 2022 05:21:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([2409:8a70:2bf:80b0:8ec6:81ff:fe70:339d]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id i18-20020a170902cf1200b0016c38eb1f3asm3527849plg.214.2022.08.13.05.21.49 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sat, 13 Aug 2022 05:21:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#57003: 28.1.90; Can local variables be loaded before loading major mode? In-Reply-To: <87h72gjr3a.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <87czdeoqy7.fsf@localhost> <87v8r54j3h.fsf@HIDDEN> <875yj5xzou.fsf@localhost> <875yj443zy.fsf@HIDDEN> <874jyo6vd6.fsf@localhost> <87k07k18ro.fsf@HIDDEN> <871qts6tzy.fsf@localhost> <87bksv0ya6.fsf@HIDDEN> <87edxqzzm6.fsf@localhost> <87leryzzdl.fsf@HIDDEN> <87a68ezycj.fsf@localhost> <875yj2zudw.fsf@HIDDEN> <871qtp64eq.fsf@localhost> <878rntskld.fsf@HIDDEN> <877d3c7by7.fsf@localhost> <87h72gjr3a.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2022 20:22:52 +0800 Message-ID: <87ilmw5o4j.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57003 Cc: 57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> writes: > This area is notoriously brittle and complicated. I worry that any > change in evaluation order is going to break lots of stuff for various > use cases. Agree. > So I'd really prefer a new way to specify "early variables", but I have > no idea how that'd look in practice. Perhaps just a new thing in > .dir-local.el, making that backwards-compatible is a challenge in > itself. Maybe something like 'early-local property instead of 'permanent-local? It will not break the existing cases, while allowing the major modes or users to mark the variables that are safe to load early. -- Ihor Radchenko, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at https://orgmode.org/. Support Org development at https://liberapay.com/org-mode, or support my work at https://liberapay.com/yantar92
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#57003; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 57003) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Aug 2022 11:55:16 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Aug 13 07:55:16 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59867 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1oMpjX-0001zo-PC for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 13 Aug 2022 07:55:16 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:36002) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <larsi@HIDDEN>) id 1oMpjV-0001zX-VF for 57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 13 Aug 2022 07:55:14 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References: In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=vclDtIXo9HDZu58lfqqhQ9KOaySHTKMT9ppOJKSCjc8=; b=nqjk1Z+d8eRLBed51wSqd95ksq ZjiYLbmP4SPmEyieh5M9a5j9c+m/yvgfG1ds+ZFXHjBT6078jTepWCznnsc68/oZepcfKifFs2snD kk6gSy+w17CGkomX77JXp4GZzjzHvKNuW4N3fb6qm+cjdWLQ6OublGtgZz6p2/A71huk=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=joga) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from <larsi@HIDDEN>) id 1oMpjN-0007HX-Rq; Sat, 13 Aug 2022 13:55:07 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> To: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#57003: 28.1.90; Can local variables be loaded before loading major mode? In-Reply-To: <877d3c7by7.fsf@localhost> (Ihor Radchenko's message of "Sat, 13 Aug 2022 17:02:56 +0800") References: <87czdeoqy7.fsf@localhost> <87v8r54j3h.fsf@HIDDEN> <875yj5xzou.fsf@localhost> <875yj443zy.fsf@HIDDEN> <874jyo6vd6.fsf@localhost> <87k07k18ro.fsf@HIDDEN> <871qts6tzy.fsf@localhost> <87bksv0ya6.fsf@HIDDEN> <87edxqzzm6.fsf@localhost> <87leryzzdl.fsf@HIDDEN> <87a68ezycj.fsf@localhost> <875yj2zudw.fsf@HIDDEN> <871qtp64eq.fsf@localhost> <878rntskld.fsf@HIDDEN> <877d3c7by7.fsf@localhost> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwAgMAAAAqbBEUAAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAADFBMVEU7MjeVWmXe1cr/ //9HfuA7AAAAAWJLR0QDEQxM8gAAAAd0SU1FB+YIDQssKM4C7ZYAAAFLSURBVCjPTZFBbsIwEEX/ WEmksjJSsiBHyClsqek6SDYL1kUqOUXgBHRB11RKKuJTdmzHgBfWPM/4j/0H4FVc/I467KvhBWr1 Ao0CGS6IAFQ2wREwunsA/cwGRQAH9PNBRWiGvJktdlFzoH5usY9Nod2cUwQg70fSHwvg8wtbSsCZ LsWoL0/IAVIJysxzggLZEmYw4pbAwtC0xNSiFFOq05BikktKE8SYlCmHuD3atCh+8VRY3RJU76jH cMrvq9iMeyjvQNZCzB7eFBtocQovaBU4xjkMQimybLX+jpOoGHK6RG3qWmyyboxftp08Bvd9xpbZ vVI9SxCDovnI1kusQVvF7sLxLGSwyd2Fc4MHRTyExjkvXknQ/to7LpUw/Pv+unJ8SYOHjkPLd/7Y M7/MTvuMiePxMC2ZcqO9GreHQlacQsas2fms2DL8A0kSVvj+DBcIAAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOmNyZWF0 ZQAyMDIyLTA4LTEzVDExOjQ0OjQwKzAwOjAw+OIotwAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTptb2RpZnkAMjAyMi0w OC0xM1QxMTo0NDo0MCswMDowMIm/kAsAAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-Now-Playing: Joni Mitchell's _Dog Eat Dog_: "The Three Great Stimulants" Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2022 13:55:05 +0200 Message-ID: <87h72gjr3a.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> writes: > What can be probably done is a call to `hack-local-variables' inside > `kill-all-local-variables', but setting only the variables marked > 'permanent-local. The later call to `hack-local-variables' [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57003 Cc: 57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> writes: > What can be probably done is a call to `hack-local-variables' inside > `kill-all-local-variables', but setting only the variables marked > 'permanent-local. The later call to `hack-local-variables' inside > `run-mode-hooks' may then only go through the remaining variables. This area is notoriously brittle and complicated. I worry that any change in evaluation order is going to break lots of stuff for various use cases. So I'd really prefer a new way to specify "early variables", but I have no idea how that'd look in practice. Perhaps just a new thing in .dir-local.el, making that backwards-compatible is a challenge in itself.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#57003; Package emacs.
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In-Reply-To: <8d5495b94426dfed88899e46dc68db50@HIDDEN> (Phil Sainty's message of "Sat, 13 Aug 2022 13:33:31 +1200") References: <87czdeoqy7.fsf@localhost> <87v8r54j3h.fsf@HIDDEN> <875yj5xzou.fsf@localhost> <875yj443zy.fsf@HIDDEN> <874jyo6vd6.fsf@localhost> <87k07k18ro.fsf@HIDDEN> <871qts6tzy.fsf@localhost> <87bksv0ya6.fsf@HIDDEN> <87edxqzzm6.fsf@localhost> <87leryzzdl.fsf@HIDDEN> <87a68ezycj.fsf@localhost> <875yj2zudw.fsf@HIDDEN> <871qtp64eq.fsf@localhost> <878rntskld.fsf@HIDDEN> <8d5495b94426dfed88899e46dc68db50@HIDDEN> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwAgMAAAAqbBEUAAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAADFBMVEU7MjeVWmXe1cr/ //9HfuA7AAAAAWJLR0QDEQxM8gAAAAd0SU1FB+YIDQssKM4C7ZYAAAFLSURBVCjPTZFBbsIwEEX/ WEmksjJSsiBHyClsqek6SDYL1kUqOUXgBHRB11RKKuJTdmzHgBfWPM/4j/0H4FVc/I467KvhBWr1 Ao0CGS6IAFQ2wREwunsA/cwGRQAH9PNBRWiGvJktdlFzoH5usY9Nod2cUwQg70fSHwvg8wtbSsCZ LsWoL0/IAVIJysxzggLZEmYw4pbAwtC0xNSiFFOq05BikktKE8SYlCmHuD3atCh+8VRY3RJU76jH cMrvq9iMeyjvQNZCzB7eFBtocQovaBU4xjkMQimybLX+jpOoGHK6RG3qWmyyboxftp08Bvd9xpbZ vVI9SxCDovnI1kusQVvF7sLxLGSwyd2Fc4MHRTyExjkvXknQ/to7LpUw/Pv+unJ8SYOHjkPLd/7Y M7/MTvuMiePxMC2ZcqO9GreHQlacQsas2fms2DL8A0kSVvj+DBcIAAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOmNyZWF0 ZQAyMDIyLTA4LTEzVDExOjQ0OjQwKzAwOjAw+OIotwAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTptb2RpZnkAMjAyMi0w OC0xM1QxMTo0NDo0MCswMDowMIm/kAsAAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-Now-Playing: Joni Mitchell's _Dog Eat Dog_: "Fiction" Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2022 13:52:52 +0200 Message-ID: <87lersjr6z.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Phil Sainty <psainty@HIDDEN> writes: > Just as `kill-all-local-variables' runs `change-major-mode-hook' > before doing anything else, it could run another hook at the end > before returning. I think that may be a promising approach -- it'd allow modes to opt in to "early file-locals". Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57003 Cc: 57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Phil Sainty <psainty@HIDDEN> writes: > Just as `kill-all-local-variables' runs `change-major-mode-hook' > before doing anything else, it could run another hook at the end > before returning. I think that may be a promising approach -- it'd allow modes to opt in to "early file-locals".
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#57003; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 57003) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Aug 2022 09:02:04 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Aug 13 05:02:04 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59665 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1oMn1w-0001gG-9N for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 13 Aug 2022 05:02:04 -0400 Received: from mail-pg1-f174.google.com ([209.85.215.174]:39752) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <yantar92@HIDDEN>) id 1oMn1t-0001fj-My for 57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 13 Aug 2022 05:02:03 -0400 Received: by mail-pg1-f174.google.com with SMTP id q16so2643762pgq.6 for <57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 13 Aug 2022 02:02:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to :from:from:to:cc; bh=TqgWVexzelbDBHTwY87hXZUZn3EMzgxjOhMeOG0ld4E=; b=Zvo0QuWty6f4V3mZFU6Ff1eGf2YE/P+x+WMIozLryAK5+qlsTbRcMv7tiD/Dx0B+k9 Z93Aa5MRhNjuymzlPqnJ5yywWRkWcFpDYdlerSVNxRitXNDnbbJ5cR6NnrzvZSTZZoYs cU5eLa9457LhKc3kAs6mY9pQcAF9saJLmgbN5VFqflLy498Fs4M8OuoHsqWTUZNwNStd u5vcozruAAU3kVm1npaKXH9xsDyPzX+WHzR/4cxKWtZ65N2dSZ35u5aAcfGtayQxYU0k F/DZEg/Pf4GiVgpK5kSlDuDI1+xcaBOXd/6gb/B637x9+65Q1S+OSQEmR+MnUDubIyXb GhHg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=mime-version:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to :from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc; bh=TqgWVexzelbDBHTwY87hXZUZn3EMzgxjOhMeOG0ld4E=; b=kZWGXx1zXMdNUBscZugr/OjceXmgDM+vWkOSESkDJlBLjRWvBo2lzP9GQXg5v+pXjE j2plyq0roEoSd00R1wVmbi8Xofqm/AAbSlJgdj+O8tALV89dHA/9ujzd3fpWaSQK6SKj 3UEAUcOtEuPSU4SbzcfbBQJyLjzpfZ1h9ULv8MjqaGHM5ykhVqp7sMReov1yVCGRQ6jw Y7oAQgp+QMQdOkXzFILPl5Y2tzN2LekySut6HlQ4XeZT2VU//d3VzmYJCPgD0J7Uj2Jk PnGl9FF0rV8z1CBmeQrAkndkt0AOCxNBwap2P2u+s75M+XdfTpYB6srpCy+seaPCJKZ3 ky7A== X-Gm-Message-State: ACgBeo3xZ+w2EZ1KD2ZgS5l7UzY9jWsj6veot+SoKKhV8hzTlObiRFNg 6Y/isdpyVaRxKO8IOGkPMynwF5sz9g/r4Q== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA6agR4EM3l5Uo6RNnRIelr2YjyTbBSfjmUY8Ql/BFHr7Yqc5c8M6TJvhOW25TncPq/tY2M4bBnXhQ== X-Received: by 2002:a63:6d2:0:b0:41c:18f2:8ec5 with SMTP id 201-20020a6306d2000000b0041c18f28ec5mr6298548pgg.197.1660381315846; Sat, 13 Aug 2022 02:01:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([2409:8a70:2bf:80b0:8ec6:81ff:fe70:339d]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id w9-20020a627b09000000b0052ddccd7b64sm3002427pfc.205.2022.08.13.02.01.53 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sat, 13 Aug 2022 02:01:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#57003: 28.1.90; Can local variables be loaded before loading major mode? In-Reply-To: <878rntskld.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <87czdeoqy7.fsf@localhost> <87v8r54j3h.fsf@HIDDEN> <875yj5xzou.fsf@localhost> <875yj443zy.fsf@HIDDEN> <874jyo6vd6.fsf@localhost> <87k07k18ro.fsf@HIDDEN> <871qts6tzy.fsf@localhost> <87bksv0ya6.fsf@HIDDEN> <87edxqzzm6.fsf@localhost> <87leryzzdl.fsf@HIDDEN> <87a68ezycj.fsf@localhost> <875yj2zudw.fsf@HIDDEN> <871qtp64eq.fsf@localhost> <878rntskld.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2022 17:02:56 +0800 Message-ID: <877d3c7by7.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57003 Cc: 57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> writes: >> Why not instead add something that is run _after_ >> kill-all-local-variables? Then, there will be no need to fiddle with >> 'permanently-local (which might have undesired side effects). > > That'd work for things that use `define-derived-mode', but not all modes > are defined that way and call `kill-all-local-variables' "manually". I found such a case in ses.el. However, I am not sure if much can be done mode-specifically in such scenario. Major modes using a custom function may set the value of `major-mode' anywhere down to right before `run-mode-hooks' call. The only universal option then is indeed your suggestion about permanent local variables. They were overridden by hack-local-variables in the past anyway. What can be probably done is a call to `hack-local-variables' inside `kill-all-local-variables', but setting only the variables marked 'permanent-local. The later call to `hack-local-variables' inside `run-mode-hooks' may then only go through the remaining variables. WDYT? -- Ihor Radchenko, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at https://orgmode.org/. Support Org development at https://liberapay.com/org-mode, or support my work at https://liberapay.com/yantar92
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#57003; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 57003) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Aug 2022 01:33:42 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Aug 12 21:33:41 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59289 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1oMg21-0004px-LS for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 12 Aug 2022 21:33:41 -0400 Received: from smtp-4.orcon.net.nz ([60.234.4.59]:45787) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <psainty@HIDDEN>) id 1oMg1w-0004pk-Fn for 57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 12 Aug 2022 21:33:41 -0400 Received: from [10.253.37.70] (port=18055 helo=webmail.orcon.net.nz) by smtp-4.orcon.net.nz with esmtpa (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <psainty@HIDDEN>) id 1oMg1r-0005fY-Eq; Sat, 13 Aug 2022 13:33:31 +1200 Received: from ip-116-251-140-135.kinect.net.nz ([116.251.140.135]) via [10.253.37.253] by webmail.orcon.net.nz with HTTP (HTTP/1.1 POST); Sat, 13 Aug 2022 13:33:31 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2022 13:33:31 +1200 From: Phil Sainty <psainty@HIDDEN> To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#57003: 28.1.90; Can local variables be loaded before loading major =?UTF-8?Q?mode=3F?= In-Reply-To: <878rntskld.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <87czdeoqy7.fsf@localhost> <87v8r54j3h.fsf@HIDDEN> <875yj5xzou.fsf@localhost> <875yj443zy.fsf@HIDDEN> <874jyo6vd6.fsf@localhost> <87k07k18ro.fsf@HIDDEN> <871qts6tzy.fsf@localhost> <87bksv0ya6.fsf@HIDDEN> <87edxqzzm6.fsf@localhost> <87leryzzdl.fsf@HIDDEN> <87a68ezycj.fsf@localhost> <875yj2zudw.fsf@HIDDEN> <871qtp64eq.fsf@localhost> <878rntskld.fsf@HIDDEN> Message-ID: <8d5495b94426dfed88899e46dc68db50@HIDDEN> X-Sender: psainty@HIDDEN User-Agent: Orcon Webmail X-GeoIP: -- X-Spam_score: -2.9 X-Spam_score_int: -28 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57003 Cc: 57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 2022-08-13 00:38, Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote: > Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> writes: >> Why not instead add something that is run _after_ >> kill-all-local-variables? > > That'd work for things that use `define-derived-mode', but not all > modes > are defined that way and call `kill-all-local-variables' "manually". Just as `kill-all-local-variables' runs `change-major-mode-hook' before doing anything else, it could run another hook at the end before returning. (Caveat: I've not been following this discussion recently, so I'm not actually sure if that covers the requirement or not.)
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#57003; Package emacs.
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In-Reply-To: <871qtp64eq.fsf@localhost> (Ihor Radchenko's message of "Tue, 09 Aug 2022 19:29:49 +0800") References: <87czdeoqy7.fsf@localhost> <87v8r54j3h.fsf@HIDDEN> <875yj5xzou.fsf@localhost> <875yj443zy.fsf@HIDDEN> <874jyo6vd6.fsf@localhost> <87k07k18ro.fsf@HIDDEN> <871qts6tzy.fsf@localhost> <87bksv0ya6.fsf@HIDDEN> <87edxqzzm6.fsf@localhost> <87leryzzdl.fsf@HIDDEN> <87a68ezycj.fsf@localhost> <875yj2zudw.fsf@HIDDEN> <871qtp64eq.fsf@localhost> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAALVBMVEX9/fPd3drBpZGb d4I0JihRQUJhV1yXaVoHBgspFhxOMC1mMTCeUzy+kXD///+LNd4MAAAAAWJLR0QOb70wTwAAAAd0 SU1FB+YIDAwlBwniGmYAAAE1SURBVDjLY2AYAYBRAJeEkoAgI4OgoCCGhCACoOhmdg0FgrC09LK0 9PRUINMAKsHWAQQzp8xaumvV8VUrgOwEZIlZS1xcU2eVu3jMmIEq0TllideqFakeHeg6OqdEeXnt dJ2BLtE502XVEvfyEgyJ2Z6eXqt871Z1oEl01sxc1eKy9q4L0I5OuATzio5e4VmzPT3W6nZ4Iutg 3rNtTfnqli0npld1zESRmF1zunzLrKMnW2d0uE7xRLJj5qrj6TNnHwm/lNKB4ir2mV3HV+fWXump TVMqQXHVzN3dtXfvXj91PFdJqbjKcwVcYveps+VVe07P2L3s0t27WUt2wiSYzpbfXgUELjNnTnFZ CTQqACZRpGueblxelgYFqbD4wB3pSJEsIAiMfGzqgMlCUICgAaOA7gAAlKmXRLWPAKcAAAAldEVY dGRhdGU6Y3JlYXRlADIwMjItMDgtMTJUMTI6Mzc6MDcrMDA6MDBooUscAAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOm1v ZGlmeQAyMDIyLTA4LTEyVDEyOjM3OjA3KzAwOjAwGfzzoAAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== X-Now-Playing: Two Nice Girls's _2 Nice Girls_: "Looking Out" Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2022 14:38:22 +0200 Message-ID: <878rntskld.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> writes: > The first thing executed when activating a major-mode is (according to > define-derived-mode) kill-all-local-variables which consist of > > run_hook (Qchange_major_mode_hook); > reset_buffer_local_v [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57003 Cc: 57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> writes: > The first thing executed when activating a major-mode is (according to > define-derived-mode) kill-all-local-variables which consist of > > run_hook (Qchange_major_mode_hook); > reset_buffer_local_variables (current_buffer, 0); > bset_update_mode_line (current_buffer); > > Having 'permanent-local variables will only affect > change-major-mode-hook. I know no other hook ran earlier. > > Why not instead add something that is run _after_ > kill-all-local-variables? Then, there will be no need to fiddle with > 'permanently-local (which might have undesired side effects). That'd work for things that use `define-derived-mode', but not all modes are defined that way and call `kill-all-local-variables' "manually".
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#57003; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 57003) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Aug 2022 11:28:58 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Aug 09 07:28:58 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42715 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1oLNPu-00085w-HU for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 09 Aug 2022 07:28:58 -0400 Received: from mail-pf1-f173.google.com ([209.85.210.173]:38785) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <yantar92@HIDDEN>) id 1oLNPq-00085g-GA for 57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 09 Aug 2022 07:28:55 -0400 Received: by mail-pf1-f173.google.com with SMTP id d20so10514465pfq.5 for <57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 09 Aug 2022 04:28:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :mime-version; bh=zZcOjXB7qM+AJo/c9TixJqyazkfjzj2G95PUNe6H9Co=; b=CRPFh8jHzhJvD7Qo/bMk7nIhHzAAEoPfhnYZRy7c7NpksZqUJ4xzjLgy260BV8QeD9 jMdTzFZUdfZ9e5kEe5rrMh6iTebhxsUolveOq5c+jII15HRXGUCwmDTWOkKtuaso4pm8 BqJwOI1/oIXoeqDlDv4Gd1XbZO1xPQiRyTj+22UqH4H7sQXaR2Z8aAqvHbiGduFB5MQI sfROqtaACDUYRtg4XgHjYZzrPgDDOV9BgNLp/tFMpfC+dzv5WfT7a7HoCQqPa1CWMmpG y7trnwFP5pFcvNK+Vn8WZIS250OpGFF+C12lAXdmCACEqaGeG/SQeRWvtXJduJkS7GuQ fAnw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:mime-version; bh=zZcOjXB7qM+AJo/c9TixJqyazkfjzj2G95PUNe6H9Co=; b=daQDcvzepz3WTgXPeO3qFO/nH/C/h/rCxWfvLlPvb8F16NJCzHMqptmoanmOj/YBs4 FHr68h5ELHeufd2Ldqdm4RK0RNo3H03bJ2jx5J+y1dR4US8lOpqtIsDXSJYrw/d3ZuYe cvYu163P1mMKVUUQp0kSU2rkAHEyE8bYPLoVfdEbzOb2jRpAcEt8n8RQWlWY7OcwOWIT yG7Vh67VW1L/IqjtOvFe04XpUcexj0vKPA9pQ4xTIwX+md7ojW2FAYnkkPdeIdfA9ySP FDB3uNMLat3Q8E4fQs3UoyN1DBAXVZDN6xUtXn4AC1w+aT9tY1cBMD6j2pehRuZyM7CZ CUpw== X-Gm-Message-State: ACgBeo3zg54sp53Fb5mNvLjWqMLE9Pb+iFJojBfsUOsqb+gN54VdvNOo I/UnTr7ctLdmSXTTfNTorCSrfHCT8cQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA6agR6Gy72ykncsrt05+Smd7QqesPl2e1EpPKI3CRuSLryxCH94mVA4XiRnF+SQyMD2r+uJWjpPvA== X-Received: by 2002:a63:6a05:0:b0:41d:ba0a:6fe5 with SMTP id f5-20020a636a05000000b0041dba0a6fe5mr4133757pgc.306.1660044528355; Tue, 09 Aug 2022 04:28:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([2409:8a70:2bf:80b0:8ec6:81ff:fe70:339d]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id f4-20020a170902ce8400b0016cd74dae66sm10787556plg.28.2022.08.09.04.28.46 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 09 Aug 2022 04:28:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#57003: 28.1.90; Can local variables be loaded before loading major mode? In-Reply-To: <875yj2zudw.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <87czdeoqy7.fsf@localhost> <87v8r54j3h.fsf@HIDDEN> <875yj5xzou.fsf@localhost> <875yj443zy.fsf@HIDDEN> <874jyo6vd6.fsf@localhost> <87k07k18ro.fsf@HIDDEN> <871qts6tzy.fsf@localhost> <87bksv0ya6.fsf@HIDDEN> <87edxqzzm6.fsf@localhost> <87leryzzdl.fsf@HIDDEN> <87a68ezycj.fsf@localhost> <875yj2zudw.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2022 19:29:49 +0800 Message-ID: <871qtp64eq.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57003 Cc: 57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> writes: > Sorry, phrased that all wrong -- I meant that if we had a mechanism to > read the dir-locals earlier, then if you make the variables > permanently-local, then things would indeed work fine without any > further scaffolding here. > > So perhaps we should just allow that, but I'm not sure how we'd specify > this. I am not sure what you mean by earlier. The first thing executed when activating a major-mode is (according to define-derived-mode) kill-all-local-variables which consist of run_hook (Qchange_major_mode_hook); reset_buffer_local_variables (current_buffer, 0); bset_update_mode_line (current_buffer); Having 'permanent-local variables will only affect change-major-mode-hook. I know no other hook ran earlier. Why not instead add something that is run _after_ kill-all-local-variables? Then, there will be no need to fiddle with 'permanently-local (which might have undesired side effects). Best, Ihor
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#57003; Package emacs.
Full text available.Stefan Kangas <stefan@HIDDEN>
to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org.
Full text available.Received: (at 57003) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Aug 2022 14:23:52 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Aug 08 10:23:52 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41421 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1oL3fc-0001aN-31 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 08 Aug 2022 10:23:52 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:40470) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <larsi@HIDDEN>) id 1oL3fY-0001a0-UD for 57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 08 Aug 2022 10:23:50 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References: In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=BmrnXcCGvPpWPpMELeObgkOUFazsSH19Ho/5TcyJXQw=; b=PLgCYcHTLsMFXRoY1t+WgWV5kv HRb0dLrK2INY9ITOg3mrmOPRtrqCF+YpIAdzX11U6fswuJ5iOYMgJ9hCpXFrkv20vSLqZNNuXjBeU 1LtRbOrmLV6U9C/j/2gILJkYJekl8MjujUVx9Vpb94a2jCLbozsMJd+7htZT7ILbfjYI=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=joga) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from <larsi@HIDDEN>) id 1oL3fQ-0001L3-DR; Mon, 08 Aug 2022 16:23:42 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> To: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#57003: 28.1.90; Can local variables be loaded before loading major mode? In-Reply-To: <87a68ezycj.fsf@localhost> (Ihor Radchenko's message of "Mon, 08 Aug 2022 20:58:04 +0800") References: <87czdeoqy7.fsf@localhost> <87v8r54j3h.fsf@HIDDEN> <875yj5xzou.fsf@localhost> <875yj443zy.fsf@HIDDEN> <874jyo6vd6.fsf@localhost> <87k07k18ro.fsf@HIDDEN> <871qts6tzy.fsf@localhost> <87bksv0ya6.fsf@HIDDEN> <87edxqzzm6.fsf@localhost> <87leryzzdl.fsf@HIDDEN> <87a68ezycj.fsf@localhost> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAD1BMVEVdXFx+foGenaAx Ly7////2IpWJAAAAAWJLR0QEj2jZUQAAAAd0SU1FB+YICA4WCZbXEWgAAAF1SURBVDjLlZRtmsMg CISH9QJqLhDpBch6/7vtAE3bpP5Z0sekvgz4gQJh0mqV2tK0a6voj773XVVH5/Oz/wxhKzusHvVo Og4qjmJ8wMcmpptKyfdpWwLR7H+DMmEwUQEjmDfTo3kDIlV89M3j4WKG+pUxP+3YEljf57cZ0GS0 m3HGHdK73s09wfZCRnQ3hW7GlWpOR/5OwDRy1QgceCau5aeFPkG5jDRDNd+M7Q6o6FTotlAsQD1z yFKxBv3foI0VYPWsgZdSzrzfgZ7gcQHDl3Kl8BpVVO67ALcNZyhWzIEyr4Slwiopvgcv53MH7p4v wyV0uQLLzx7F/K2Ag7oCXkEvUN5AovBersiGaSQkOFOiRD5Y7vR4+ucZ5Lx5fthPReMRojeH/nRg ikwS3T4nf4dAPRJ3bkqdXNozZlT88AE/5+g62DRxBdOMveRQubDmIEvc515KDDSmYOmBuGb8yoj/ Epo4FnFM3kB4vcD7Gr9InZf5B6vekdJLhQZ3AAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOmNyZWF0ZQAyMDIyLTA4LTA4 VDE0OjIyOjA5KzAwOjAwzMmKdwAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTptb2RpZnkAMjAyMi0wOC0wOFQxNDoyMjow OSswMDowML2UMssAAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-Now-Playing: The Ex's _Live-Skive_: "Punk Horse" Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2022 16:23:39 +0200 Message-ID: <875yj2zudw.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> writes: >>> Having Emacs support early setting would be much easier. >> >> You could make the relevant Org variables `permanent-local' -- then >> calling `org-mode' won't clear them out. > > Could you please [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57003 Cc: 57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> writes: >>> Having Emacs support early setting would be much easier. >> >> You could make the relevant Org variables `permanent-local' -- then >> calling `org-mode' won't clear them out. > > Could you please elaborate on how it is going to help with loading > file-local variables before loading Org mode? Sorry, phrased that all wrong -- I meant that if we had a mechanism to read the dir-locals earlier, then if you make the variables permanently-local, then things would indeed work fine without any further scaffolding here. So perhaps we should just allow that, but I'm not sure how we'd specify this.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#57003; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 57003) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Aug 2022 12:57:19 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Aug 08 08:57:19 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39437 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1oL2Jq-00036l-Mr for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 08 Aug 2022 08:57:18 -0400 Received: from mail-pg1-f171.google.com ([209.85.215.171]:34561) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <yantar92@HIDDEN>) id 1oL2Jh-00036O-Rl for 57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 08 Aug 2022 08:57:17 -0400 Received: by mail-pg1-f171.google.com with SMTP id 12so8509624pga.1 for <57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Mon, 08 Aug 2022 05:57:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :mime-version; bh=SgASz3SRFAxPU2mjpGHaLYvhjRTUJ6yG6p2+yAQLFj8=; b=Gh+qDv56zxEUw+mNxmcMaaeRtU4/sRGCvFNwaSOLXmQfixlq71BBens9gl/vLA0hGz Fpxj8rlPY0Cokj/w+86MLg868Xc9fU+dYHzCiIFj62qjTf6bwxaUsTn+BW7EtEqYc0hs 79yeaTqQv3WtV1Q8UW3BGSaIa8flxTxNzuQwhJE6B4oyMt4wW5cyLxfG0x1hGp1r8kcj 1OP/OcXeThQcaAv1u4OqUEN2CRNhiQqYgea/RVrWQDY+lRaSVBJ7TDCKhP17oPCwxfkN UQCKOh+D96rdNcfZmGPhH03N4mlGdtLgOB0y7GHtjRdrx3Czl7iQs9dFRHqGdD0h65Py rQ6A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:mime-version; bh=SgASz3SRFAxPU2mjpGHaLYvhjRTUJ6yG6p2+yAQLFj8=; b=zdZyYjbzEeDaWzO3ABMFzZ43n3EDYrkTp/vlHBftRVryx4r73PGoOOjn16Vd+n9kCZ J3+rJyzBeBSOU0jM6VBJzjeR9OpQQKms0D1OoMP6ssC709cxAu9newjFkYNTbqaeJebp K73Ku9j7NI1WLepAOZV4tR+pSRUXx6QL9FNOZZqdgUJ1QUYGP9vbYUCsB7ycWtM8bBvH dC5ZvSIz5/Cqbr1jMvExIlHwtsshXjHvUa5I4nGk1Hh/kngRZ0I39E8iYvefeY80MXd3 FYpw3eoQvSLj9LmftcOZPrgUtufGPj3XQUZz4tGN5OVdKZqQR96qR7fir+w6XQcz70ct 6nsg== X-Gm-Message-State: ACgBeo32IEPOjVMeq8GDzM6A/3DVQXo+9uZhuqcKOisxPfHKNfz8O7Fl jR21z953dyPWB+phIgLWyMkWaW4rqYw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA6agR43E7z+Ua0xPKfvkdMwqJ0ZtpqjQaC0R6Xwz4zf3o6jHyodKAgZu0wp+rBC3SQUeeTOqDxrSw== X-Received: by 2002:a62:1c04:0:b0:52e:d2b4:c029 with SMTP id c4-20020a621c04000000b0052ed2b4c029mr13276073pfc.60.1659963424086; Mon, 08 Aug 2022 05:57:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([2409:8a70:2b5:4040:8ec6:81ff:fe70:339d]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l14-20020a170903244e00b001709f01c423sm3423615pls.32.2022.08.08.05.57.02 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 08 Aug 2022 05:57:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#57003: 28.1.90; Can local variables be loaded before loading major mode? In-Reply-To: <87leryzzdl.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <87czdeoqy7.fsf@localhost> <87v8r54j3h.fsf@HIDDEN> <875yj5xzou.fsf@localhost> <875yj443zy.fsf@HIDDEN> <874jyo6vd6.fsf@localhost> <87k07k18ro.fsf@HIDDEN> <871qts6tzy.fsf@localhost> <87bksv0ya6.fsf@HIDDEN> <87edxqzzm6.fsf@localhost> <87leryzzdl.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2022 20:58:04 +0800 Message-ID: <87a68ezycj.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57003 Cc: 57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> writes: > Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> writes: > >> Having Emacs support early setting would be much easier. > > You could make the relevant Org variables `permanent-local' -- then > calling `org-mode' won't clear them out. Could you please elaborate on how it is going to help with loading file-local variables before loading Org mode? Best, Ihor
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#57003; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 57003) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Aug 2022 12:36:04 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Aug 08 08:36:04 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39418 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1oL1zH-0000OK-W4 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 08 Aug 2022 08:36:04 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:39710) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <larsi@HIDDEN>) id 1oL1zF-0000Np-KU for 57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 08 Aug 2022 08:36:02 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References: In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=U0hP/LB0AT9W+3a4gI7PufiswZ5DhtqEnVTn8K6DvjY=; b=YU6j8FwQ2pzgTRjRYPA3AchkTf KaHc6xn47ut5JyLUanfMWER92sbXCP28lFQy39wdu37+i2qhcQOcjDogOAqxsaQzz0YAP/YXNjXBw Wctw1uvHwfYCFRLn8z3iSZziDcEpapLm3Yhi6ME4Ruim3+HeTySsOenFZlVnZS+81gjY=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=joga) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from <larsi@HIDDEN>) id 1oL1z7-0000XI-Gh; Mon, 08 Aug 2022 14:35:55 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> To: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#57003: 28.1.90; Can local variables be loaded before loading major mode? In-Reply-To: <87edxqzzm6.fsf@localhost> (Ihor Radchenko's message of "Mon, 08 Aug 2022 20:30:41 +0800") References: <87czdeoqy7.fsf@localhost> <87v8r54j3h.fsf@HIDDEN> <875yj5xzou.fsf@localhost> <875yj443zy.fsf@HIDDEN> <874jyo6vd6.fsf@localhost> <87k07k18ro.fsf@HIDDEN> <871qts6tzy.fsf@localhost> <87bksv0ya6.fsf@HIDDEN> <87edxqzzm6.fsf@localhost> Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAElBMVEX9HqDhVq/m3C6r ytyWfar////NQ8kVAAAAAWJLR0QF+G/pxwAAAAd0SU1FB+YICAwhGoHqJOwAAAGpSURBVDjLlVQB buQwCIRsH4A3fUBN/YBNfQ9ovfz/TWWwY6c96aSzlAgzHgaICRER079XSkm6MT14Md4BsApLHMRu E1ZfcGwqt8dJYrqrnogO1QMxhr8je/glBX0uANBgWKRarKUE4G1E3zReZi27cbegUB4pmpkCSI4H pRdE2JpmeoXRKVixtdY03K0n1o8jEtxuaJnybjuAx/5os7SdsV6tNLgRSt8fnv8JwGPF1fW91oqa eqwXnC+gpd2Bh3dtAFD1uj88mVuth1ebB8PTKs/68O9AiHUFmj2rbOUTlKn+4vm4ip8sX8S1Cg2A I1k9/gZc3LU9m2JESGuGQjeeDthPgKOD2LdfgIvn3fN34PMKeBffKAAzuYpHQch/a0VuVwAFhYOL M1eBaCfyx/Xia68CQJMc2aG9zRukoT6WzLZTWDz8B87JvHNKJ0VoW/eHcYZPwn1qg5wjo8hs3d6I FSMky56x8g+TZcY6+d3ajxUrODwmJ8SCtwYKhLzHcGJEefpzTGdfch3C9T+QPry8/DyAtI0/heYw dub4BLLTbZUUBD5Og/5jfQPXSF28tdPdbgAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTpjcmVhdGUAMjAyMi0wOC0wOFQx MjozMzoyNiswMDowMPYNlsAAAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6bW9kaWZ5ADIwMjItMDgtMDhUMTI6MzM6MjYr MDA6MDCHUC58AAAAAElFTkSuQmCC X-Now-Playing: Michael Rother's _Deutsche Elektronische Music 4 (1)_: "Flammende Herzen" Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2022 14:35:50 +0200 Message-ID: <87leryzzdl.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> writes: > Having Emacs support early setting would be much easier. You could make the relevant Org variables `permanent-local' -- then calling `org-mode' won't clear them out. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57003 Cc: 57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> writes: > Having Emacs support early setting would be much easier. You could make the relevant Org variables `permanent-local' -- then calling `org-mode' won't clear them out.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#57003; Package emacs.
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In-Reply-To: <87bksv0ya6.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <87czdeoqy7.fsf@localhost> <87v8r54j3h.fsf@HIDDEN> <875yj5xzou.fsf@localhost> <875yj443zy.fsf@HIDDEN> <874jyo6vd6.fsf@localhost> <87k07k18ro.fsf@HIDDEN> <871qts6tzy.fsf@localhost> <87bksv0ya6.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2022 20:30:41 +0800 Message-ID: <87edxqzzm6.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57003 Cc: 57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> writes: >> 3. org-startup-folded is just an example. We have numerous variables >> like this. I can recall at least several dozens without looking into >> source code. Creating a minor mode for each and every single possible >> variable like this is not maintainable. We will certainly forget >> creating dedicated modes when adding similar variables in future. > > There's dozens of variables that have to be set before `org-mode' is > called? That sounds like an fragile design. This is not strictly necessary to set them before the whole Org is loaded. In some cases, only part of Org has to be reloaded: font-locking setup; parser; folding state; etc (which is a normal scenario when done interactively). However, such reloading adds up to file opening time. It is much faster to set everything once and load Org compared to (1) load org; (2) load variable and reload org; (3) load another variable and reload org; and so on. + creating a dedicated minor mode for every variable is not maintainable. Having Emacs support early setting would be much easier. Best, Ihor
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#57003; Package emacs.
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From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN>
To: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#57003: 28.1.90; Can local variables be loaded before
loading major mode?
In-Reply-To: <871qts6tzy.fsf@localhost> (Ihor Radchenko's message of "Sun, 07
Aug 2022 21:52:33 +0800")
References: <87czdeoqy7.fsf@localhost> <87v8r54j3h.fsf@HIDDEN>
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X-Now-Playing: Et Cetera's _Deutsche Elektronische Music 4 (2)_: "Mellodrama
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Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2022 13:28:49 +0200
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Content preview: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> writes: > 1. Having a
need to do the eval is not expected by users. > 2. Allowing eval is not safe
compared to setting variables. Your > suggestion about `safe-local-eval-forms'
will not work well because > e [...]
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Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> writes:
> 1. Having a need to do the eval is not expected by users.
> 2. Allowing eval is not safe compared to setting variables. Your
> suggestion about `safe-local-eval-forms' will not work well because
> even in your example it is not just about running
> (org-startup-folded-mode); org-startup-folded has 7 allowed values -
> marking each (org-startup-folded-mode value) form as safe sounds
> awkward.
I'd forgotten that you can just enable minor modes without any of that.
You can just say
((org-mode . ((mode . org-startup-folded-mode))))
Or of there are different types:
((org-mode . ((org-startup-type . foo)
(mode . org-startup-folded-mode))))
> 3. org-startup-folded is just an example. We have numerous variables
> like this. I can recall at least several dozens without looking into
> source code. Creating a minor mode for each and every single possible
> variable like this is not maintainable. We will certainly forget
> creating dedicated modes when adding similar variables in future.
There's dozens of variables that have to be set before `org-mode' is
called? That sounds like an fragile design.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#57003; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 57003) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Aug 2022 13:51:39 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Aug 07 09:51:39 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36245 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1oKggt-0002NI-6s for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Aug 2022 09:51:39 -0400 Received: from mail-pj1-f51.google.com ([209.85.216.51]:38517) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <yantar92@HIDDEN>) id 1oKggp-0002N2-UG for 57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Aug 2022 09:51:37 -0400 Received: by mail-pj1-f51.google.com with SMTP id q9-20020a17090a2dc900b001f58bcaca95so5437848pjm.3 for <57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 07 Aug 2022 06:51:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :mime-version; bh=E7nD50AoF63xeQz8j4TOYvtXuqhXWnxWDQ9jhFTE7M8=; b=q5eb2WbJe9X1Vbpu9azJfTVQ0UJ++oKOM+7K8z55FOAo7JT/tgqLD5as+VI7v04voh yS+3jlncDVm2ADtU2Pkr3ceJecFsx6qD98usfSJzd+C19cdJ1/6SAlV0EnPwCxcL4ujS JVcZHJWUc0ZUWs2I/0JfbEnEO+0tVM3U8YrSChv7zMpLwXopqcpWWLGPHIBpyAEmdgIT q681CkBaF8HLoCfPy/JcB07U5qBJagsEL6b7/4FcXTgnCqVcsweH2c2omfKWc1B9MqlN DpLMHgluF3zhdYH4XfQFlbWwy20394s9vRoGkNuCz4hadA1DDhehYP8ux/vHJ4aE5zaN f8XQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:mime-version; bh=E7nD50AoF63xeQz8j4TOYvtXuqhXWnxWDQ9jhFTE7M8=; b=FXdY0IBLWWRrK/e70j7/mR9PniqXVJQgwwi+iPIj+lDs3mD/gUGWTsCGVm+2mk94FQ IzDdPZAZu8HBrYYPNIO42eM0Syky20PV7OzaOXGn70vJI5lV9UVaTf2Un1e0i18Sgyor c7Ri/mbV8R9Nfl2URYihKn/bihVrlmEE6djqgLcU20Hf0N56CpvBnBmdVpYXT+5BfMJt bRit257IOxGw3v8hSjQ3R4HY9S8Rov2IKoHqSLqZgwiRBxgR+jybqYJHG5RomfvF8nTt xQom9+oeC1uy/6clW7prraFnxlSn8NtYWHBPkcIJRRgnbq8Czj/1wN2pLj4xC6Uw0EPG Ayug== X-Gm-Message-State: ACgBeo3wClFXfAFdrPmJY48vYJFsG7j5rB47liOgNhsVsNBhari5WYsr 2D8I/ZzC58A7wYK+x4UNohdtQJmIewI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA6agR5dHICr8p/xsmHi9svnH/3CCGHQGC+nA0bHQ5D27GCdSvmTIF7ODsPYPxOGICWgcYW3qk0FEw== X-Received: by 2002:a17:903:247:b0:16c:5017:9ad4 with SMTP id j7-20020a170903024700b0016c50179ad4mr15204014plh.115.1659880290013; Sun, 07 Aug 2022 06:51:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([2409:8a70:2b5:4040:8ec6:81ff:fe70:339d]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id i23-20020a056a00225700b0052ddccd7b64sm5153721pfu.205.2022.08.07.06.51.28 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 07 Aug 2022 06:51:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#57003: 28.1.90; Can local variables be loaded before loading major mode? In-Reply-To: <87k07k18ro.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <87czdeoqy7.fsf@localhost> <87v8r54j3h.fsf@HIDDEN> <875yj5xzou.fsf@localhost> <875yj443zy.fsf@HIDDEN> <874jyo6vd6.fsf@localhost> <87k07k18ro.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2022 21:52:33 +0800 Message-ID: <871qts6tzy.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57003 Cc: 57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> writes: > Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> writes: > >> Agree. However, the file-local variables specifically are not equivalent >> to the mode hooks. File/directory-local variables can be set on >> per-file/per-project basis, which is much more convenient compared to >> explicitly defining a global hook. > > I think you can say something like > > (eval . (org-startup-folded-mode)) > > to your .dir-locals (etc) to achieve this. (And then you have to add > that to `safe-local-eval-forms' to avoid getting prompted, but Org could > do that in general. And, of course, add this functionality as a minor > mode instead of just a variable.) I do not think that it is a good idea. 1. Having a need to do the eval is not expected by users. 2. Allowing eval is not safe compared to setting variables. Your suggestion about `safe-local-eval-forms' will not work well because even in your example it is not just about running (org-startup-folded-mode); org-startup-folded has 7 allowed values - marking each (org-startup-folded-mode value) form as safe sounds awkward. 3. org-startup-folded is just an example. We have numerous variables like this. I can recall at least several dozens without looking into source code. Creating a minor mode for each and every single possible variable like this is not maintainable. We will certainly forget creating dedicated modes when adding similar variables in future. 4. We have a somewhat similar approach in org-link settings - each link type is activated by evaluating a sexp. The result is slow Org startup time. If we implement per-file settings like you suggested, each setting will require partial re-evaluation of (org-mode). A handful of settings like you suggested will easily degrade Org startup time by an order of magnitude. Best, Ihor
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#57003; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 57003) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Aug 2022 13:30:15 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Aug 07 09:30:15 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36233 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1oKgMB-0001ph-Hy for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Aug 2022 09:30:15 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:57166) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <larsi@HIDDEN>) id 1oKgM9-0001oL-DX for 57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Aug 2022 09:30:13 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References: In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=c+er4pfymBRinyd0DTq8DBmoBVJCuuOIl1MWqTIvgnI=; b=DB+hqNDGrxSeuiSdr4bdelJH2n IcQn1wkajClHxtdNishqmQJU2pFhUdX2XMY1wDU9ebPqriWXmlwHYlbhjMx10K+fwoLZLQKs/7WK3 oUWjEjb6jYQlpMRUo9YejOcVwo6jFh84NkINKnW5a464NOVrf5UFdsH/kSTC2RCmzJlo=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=joga) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from <larsi@HIDDEN>) id 1oKgM0-0006vm-HO; Sun, 07 Aug 2022 15:30:06 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> To: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#57003: 28.1.90; Can local variables be loaded before loading major mode? In-Reply-To: <874jyo6vd6.fsf@localhost> (Ihor Radchenko's message of "Sun, 07 Aug 2022 21:23:01 +0800") References: <87czdeoqy7.fsf@localhost> <87v8r54j3h.fsf@HIDDEN> <875yj5xzou.fsf@localhost> <875yj443zy.fsf@HIDDEN> <874jyo6vd6.fsf@localhost> Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2022 15:30:03 +0200 Message-ID: <87k07k18ro.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> writes: > Agree. However, the file-local variables specifically are not equivalent > to the mode hooks. File/directory-local variables can be set on > per-file/per-project basis, which is much more convenient [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57003 Cc: 57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> writes: > Agree. However, the file-local variables specifically are not equivalent > to the mode hooks. File/directory-local variables can be set on > per-file/per-project basis, which is much more convenient compared to > explicitly defining a global hook. I think you can say something like (eval . (org-startup-folded-mode)) to your .dir-locals (etc) to achieve this. (And then you have to add that to `safe-local-eval-forms' to avoid getting prompted, but Org could do that in general. And, of course, add this functionality as a minor mode instead of just a variable.)
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#57003; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 57003) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Aug 2022 13:22:07 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Aug 07 09:22:07 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36228 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1oKgEI-0001de-Mw for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Aug 2022 09:22:06 -0400 Received: from mail-pg1-f177.google.com ([209.85.215.177]:41830) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <yantar92@HIDDEN>) id 1oKgEF-0001d9-UP for 57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Aug 2022 09:22:05 -0400 Received: by mail-pg1-f177.google.com with SMTP id 13so6409704pgc.8 for <57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 07 Aug 2022 06:22:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :mime-version; bh=DtG1GDog5Lb8hZPwi5+JdV+Y52cTNCyPCGe4eTwFR7E=; b=Pre4Rl2Dc6IjpkRLWDoTB5pGcpqmBwHZnh8HKDwzfMzz6uPm7gQrcczJnzIN5m2l4P mCCS8s18jpFlglLBIPhrtZ0/v+g6n/WPXbieqYADg5nXnx+QA83VMN+8QafVgIpIBJF7 NlOOPEPnq1jQNZn2Dl6w9ZE2IZts1/z/fgdQP8P9A518yExmwU5VL1UAspaAfLSfu8w2 qJyEAkg4JJW5X2lAW9eUo2BLqLZRCakxO2bv4B8KoAlJYkSLzXy4EUv7PWSrsfX1QHeP V2OoNPDD5kFnQJuAVSP1JHahS00U3G3oydcWRu6xdafvpmKVVioZBbH5gaqLIBB7jZTA nwww== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:mime-version; bh=DtG1GDog5Lb8hZPwi5+JdV+Y52cTNCyPCGe4eTwFR7E=; b=LXHrmcdkSfJSc63g5mBBV7louhb/eRNlBqbupZg3uSsX1EZmpyNprSqkrH93lydyWy Uc6YUX+ip9waJ677AmFmJ0Y9LN1Fiq6nO4GvPyvCsZFwk5lyKGvzv0B8S3fWgbjxdhiG MaAoI+VaOpdv4IhLiHSe13zZ69eL26A8XcmbeCxWLacFyLDWtZPlEsRJQZlkLErXXpHO 9K4rsxLX902yKErT/s/Q9ctD/rOULWlRhDxpDLe7JoEbLGvXAJvFHThaONAIxdzscFjd 7bIPINzPBSQ0fRltgtG6grxPxbcehRsx4oUGz/8ah3wd0pZnLL3tfv3FZS6xgqWoOOfj gdKQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ACgBeo0EGewFwKZYMP+QGOxRe2O0X4xL3PfXLO6Lz15kuR3T4LGhHbA+ 9hiSUJH6//+D9pNONiwOLLI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA6agR77ZGbyWTIrf1IVxGudSuAk+AAO3g4Wrnlk7eKjrG+jUsP/AnrGMcVfTV+ly13s2kCT6/mBBw== X-Received: by 2002:a63:4182:0:b0:41c:b808:21d2 with SMTP id o124-20020a634182000000b0041cb80821d2mr12584953pga.156.1659878517994; Sun, 07 Aug 2022 06:21:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([2409:8a70:2b5:4040:8ec6:81ff:fe70:339d]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id i25-20020aa796f9000000b0052d50e14f1dsm6600174pfq.78.2022.08.07.06.21.56 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 07 Aug 2022 06:21:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#57003: 28.1.90; Can local variables be loaded before loading major mode? In-Reply-To: <875yj443zy.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <87czdeoqy7.fsf@localhost> <87v8r54j3h.fsf@HIDDEN> <875yj5xzou.fsf@localhost> <875yj443zy.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2022 21:23:01 +0800 Message-ID: <874jyo6vd6.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57003 Cc: 57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> writes: > I see. In that case, it does seem attractive to allow file-local > variables to set the variables before running the mode. However, as > Visuwesh points out, a major mode clears buffer-local variables, so just > setting them before running the mode won't do anything. Indeed. I imagine something like :before-hook in `define-derived-mode' that will run just before the mode body. Or maybe more direct :hack-local-variables-when defining when to run `hack-local-variables' in contrast to currently hard-coded call in `run-mode-hooks'. This is not equivalent to calling `hack-local-variables' in :before-hook because `run-mode-hooks' would call `hack-local-variables' second time in such a case. Or maybe something more user-facing like major-mode-before-init-hook that will be executed before the major mode body form in `define-derived-mode'. > So I think the interface here is just a bit confused and confusing. It > would make more sense to allow users to do these things via mode > hooks/interface functions instead of variables. Agree. However, the file-local variables specifically are not equivalent to the mode hooks. File/directory-local variables can be set on per-file/per-project basis, which is much more convenient compared to explicitly defining a global hook. Best, Ihor
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#57003; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 57003) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Aug 2022 12:45:02 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Aug 07 08:45:02 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36135 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1oKfeP-0004fw-NI for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Aug 2022 08:45:02 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:56596) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <larsi@HIDDEN>) id 1oKfeM-0004fi-O8 for 57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 07 Aug 2022 08:45:00 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References: In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=LTOg4WdfU5c0irnCPJnqSENLIPrRjYZU0FBfV1lnyEk=; b=PjtWPgD6CiHyyWSx/Y+Yg/1cGd LYMyhQ6TFxh0xgJiAO4EquLR+iDdcFyScuo7uowRsiOMOMzeIj1Ud/Y+9BbBgYQMO0eXkXhiHMt+z vHHVC9+jLDXxqSEaVcP2r+sEC3TrsJ+OPjSo4GcK7ns7Jmy5PVpU3dzAGmA3/gemyFCU=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=joga) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from <larsi@HIDDEN>) id 1oKfeE-0006Us-5C; Sun, 07 Aug 2022 14:44:52 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> To: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#57003: 28.1.90; Can local variables be loaded before loading major mode? In-Reply-To: <875yj5xzou.fsf@localhost> (Ihor Radchenko's message of "Sat, 06 Aug 2022 21:35:13 +0800") References: <87czdeoqy7.fsf@localhost> <87v8r54j3h.fsf@HIDDEN> <875yj5xzou.fsf@localhost> Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2022 14:44:49 +0200 Message-ID: <875yj443zy.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> writes: > We have a variable org-startup-folded: > > Non-nil means entering Org mode will switch to OVERVIEW. > > This variable controls the initial state of the Org buffer. > When, non-nil, headings will be [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57003 Cc: 57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> writes: > We have a variable org-startup-folded: > > Non-nil means entering Org mode will switch to OVERVIEW. > > This variable controls the initial state of the Org buffer. > When, non-nil, headings will be folded at the end of Org initialization. > This folding happens inside org-mode specification and hence setting the > variable after Org mode is loaded makes no difference. I see. In that case, it does seem attractive to allow file-local variables to set the variables before running the mode. However, as Visuwesh points out, a major mode clears buffer-local variables, so just setting them before running the mode won't do anything. So I think the interface here is just a bit confused and confusing. It would make more sense to allow users to do these things via mode hooks/interface functions instead of variables.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#57003; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 57003) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Aug 2022 14:34:08 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Aug 06 10:34:08 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35206 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1oKKsR-0004Fe-Px for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Aug 2022 10:34:08 -0400 Received: from smtp-2.orcon.net.nz ([60.234.4.43]:48915) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <psainty@HIDDEN>) id 1oKKsQ-0004FW-FS for 57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Aug 2022 10:34:07 -0400 Received: from [10.253.37.70] (port=46417 helo=webmail.orcon.net.nz) by smtp-2.orcon.net.nz with esmtpa (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <psainty@HIDDEN>) id 1oKKsL-0006xX-6X; Sun, 07 Aug 2022 02:34:01 +1200 Received: from ip-116-251-140-135.kinect.net.nz ([116.251.140.135]) via [10.253.37.253] by webmail.orcon.net.nz with HTTP (HTTP/1.1 POST); Sun, 07 Aug 2022 02:34:01 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2022 02:34:01 +1200 From: Phil Sainty <psainty@HIDDEN> To: Visuwesh <visuweshm@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#57003: 28.1.90; Can local variables be loaded before loading major =?UTF-8?Q?mode=3F?= In-Reply-To: <87h72pwjys.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <87czdeoqy7.fsf@localhost> <87v8r54j3h.fsf@HIDDEN> <875yj5xzou.fsf@localhost> <87h72pwjys.fsf@HIDDEN> Message-ID: <8c71d52ddab506ff2e040b94db856ff8@HIDDEN> X-Sender: psainty@HIDDEN User-Agent: Orcon Webmail X-GeoIP: -- X-Spam_score: -2.9 X-Spam_score_int: -28 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57003 Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN>, 57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 2022-08-07 02:00, Visuwesh wrote: > Correct me if I'm wrong, this is about the major-mode definition > clearing the buffer's local variables before turning on the major-mode, > right? To elaborate, every major mode calls `kill-all-local-variables', and this is pretty much the first thing that happens (although `change-major-mode-hook' runs before the local variables are actually clobbered). https://stackoverflow.com/a/19295380/324105 (specifically the "Derived modes, and mode hooks" section) might be a useful write-up if you want to get your head around the sequence of events. Note that variables which are marked as permanent-local will retain their values. Refer to: M-x elisp-index-search RET kill-all-local-variables -Phil
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#57003; Package emacs.
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From: Visuwesh <visuweshm@HIDDEN>
To: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#57003: 28.1.90; Can local variables be loaded before
loading major mode?
In-Reply-To: <875yj5xzou.fsf@localhost> (Ihor Radchenko's message of "Sat, 06
Aug 2022 21:35:13 +0800")
References: <87czdeoqy7.fsf@localhost> <87v8r54j3h.fsf@HIDDEN>
<875yj5xzou.fsf@localhost>
Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2022 19:30:11 +0530
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Content preview: [சனி ஆகஸ்ட் 06, 2022] Ihor Radchenko wrote:
> Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > >> Is the problem here that there are defvars
in the major-mode file being >> loaded that depend on one another? (I'm not
sure I understand the >> explanation in that b [...]
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Content preview: [சனி ஆகஸ்ட் 06, 2022] Ihor Radchenko wrote:
> Lars Ingebrigtsen writes: > >> Is the problem here that there are defvars
in the major-mode file being >> loaded that depend on one another? (I'm not
sure I understand the >> explanation in that b [...]
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=E0=AF=8D 06, 2022] Ihor Radchenko wrote:
> Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> writes:
>
>> Is the problem here that there are defvars in the major-mode file being
>> loaded that depend on one another? (I'm not sure I understand the
>> explanation in that bug report.)
>
> No.
>
> Let me try to explain a simple case when setting variables before/after
> loading Org mode matters.
>
> We have a variable org-startup-folded:
>
> Non-nil means entering Org mode will switch to OVERVIEW.
>
> This variable controls the initial state of the Org buffer.
> When, non-nil, headings will be folded at the end of Org initialization.
> This folding happens inside org-mode specification and hence setting the
> variable after Org mode is loaded makes no difference.
>
> There are also less trivial cases like some variables controlling Org
> parser. For example, we have org-todo-keywords. Its value controls how
> the headlines are parsed. Because Org parser is initialized during Org
> loading, setting this variable after loading Org mode can be simply
> disastrous.
Correct me if I'm wrong, this is about the major-mode definition
clearing the buffer's local variables before turning on the major-mode,
right? If so, I was hit by this for a personal package too where I
needed to expose a local variable for the major-mode-hook but failed
because the function created `define-derived-mode' clears the buffer
local variables before running the major-mode-hook and the major-mode's
BODY.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#57003; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 57003) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Aug 2022 13:34:20 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Aug 06 09:34:20 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33079 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1oKJwa-00004r-4T for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Aug 2022 09:34:20 -0400 Received: from mail-pg1-f181.google.com ([209.85.215.181]:37646) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <yantar92@HIDDEN>) id 1oKJwW-0008WH-Sk for 57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Aug 2022 09:34:18 -0400 Received: by mail-pg1-f181.google.com with SMTP id bh13so4855186pgb.4 for <57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 06 Aug 2022 06:34:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :mime-version; bh=WKfar4Yh1Pr+YM4hMIVP4gvneiooKLs0G6dUQRCfEw0=; b=IoY/Cp23aH4cmUTR344l/rdxG12LeyIu9iNjU1maUVeKkZri8anRkxgWWG2qiPDJrD fh6XBx0zaIEmM/6uhL1FfCDAw/4UV3rlXSHNWy751wle3j1omfmQQmh6oHgDzmfNYLwV WICjOLOez03KYb4m8+15sAnD6Zhqo8ZCUVXUrgwkoWDlOSk7NtDXcngp8WvHQ836yzJQ UsTl/4L852DLfwM2p6OV9W4OB9TQfRorTZRxjH0X9NVPqHFGi2WLh01TGy7fSRAwZcYe 4hb8bTaNfi9+8KTPA4/681r3ko8FEZ29zI9j2egZgj/N2P7Ib876nJZg5YPLYvrw5xip sw5Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:mime-version; bh=WKfar4Yh1Pr+YM4hMIVP4gvneiooKLs0G6dUQRCfEw0=; b=UE+vF8IZ4Z3DLH4YJ8hGyqrktGp8SnKn5BymMnBskwDuLLCEKo/CHuBCkUI+Op9Fn3 VDzvIj8eQKmVUFXvfJdWsLR+0haNQgSuGSY5eA7TEFDNuu7SrgGwFnlagyHSQ1Nt52fQ nmi9FvBOjM+ohgl9udEQw1w/xfHsYtPKJmqzbQ6GuWRTPPNJw76jd16p0Ml6l9EyHvPD 6Oa5oi5r/7ETQOwvUV1aEMLxznnlaElAI2DSzwzQeuBSnPTuZxHVxKCguTZI2Gd1o+Av bPI3S1s9hbhxk5vMQS2KOqp6azw8ZVFVYL+6VGZjLz2xgAiDiDaKO5eg1kKT3RgcSOw2 UsLQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ACgBeo13oftauabv5423ODNtBxdOFD/Wdut79dtyT0XBscRkgH8yImKx pdK3VPDsNCGdeEIoCmHWZ1ndPsCeTYA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA6agR6lFYRKEEusJNJNNHCIskG5puhSZmfNUdckO8m3pGoMlyb2ml7PyxAF+2XmRpZbLGS8jMMTTg== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6a00:1949:b0:52d:a742:ff9c with SMTP id s9-20020a056a00194900b0052da742ff9cmr11158251pfk.10.1659792850754; Sat, 06 Aug 2022 06:34:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([2409:8a70:2b5:4040:8ec6:81ff:fe70:339d]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id y3-20020aa793c3000000b005289fad1bbesm5173975pff.94.2022.08.06.06.34.08 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sat, 06 Aug 2022 06:34:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> To: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#57003: 28.1.90; Can local variables be loaded before loading major mode? In-Reply-To: <87v8r54j3h.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <87czdeoqy7.fsf@localhost> <87v8r54j3h.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2022 21:35:13 +0800 Message-ID: <875yj5xzou.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57003 Cc: 57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> writes: > Is the problem here that there are defvars in the major-mode file being > loaded that depend on one another? (I'm not sure I understand the > explanation in that bug report.) No. Let me try to explain a simple case when setting variables before/after loading Org mode matters. We have a variable org-startup-folded: Non-nil means entering Org mode will switch to OVERVIEW. This variable controls the initial state of the Org buffer. When, non-nil, headings will be folded at the end of Org initialization. This folding happens inside org-mode specification and hence setting the variable after Org mode is loaded makes no difference. There are also less trivial cases like some variables controlling Org parser. For example, we have org-todo-keywords. Its value controls how the headlines are parsed. Because Org parser is initialized during Org loading, setting this variable after loading Org mode can be simply disastrous. Best, Ihor
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#57003; Package emacs.
Full text available.Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN>
to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org.
Full text available.Received: (at 57003) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Aug 2022 13:06:38 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Aug 06 09:06:38 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33028 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1oKJVl-0003Xp-OV for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Aug 2022 09:06:38 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:46916) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <larsi@HIDDEN>) id 1oKJVj-0003XX-JZ for 57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 06 Aug 2022 09:06:36 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References: In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=IgXbeYmwLppiJRrNKBqOfLVJfBMld6ltQpYw7r5xe1U=; b=GNicZfV9k/7O9zLP5JVT9kJaRg 0Izn8RUtQeFrn7M4PkEvrdkeX4ntDFnzs4X59x4xFXxSUYgvfMbkNHvFYLD8GJe8D1SDpaD5R3SCs rKR/kozgN3QtJF/xCXFUt+vDNMKS28pep3YRUfF23yHOUKhrO/fvGZ/jA7iQSk+AAcz8=; Received: from 2.151.51.97.tmi.telenormobil.no ([2.151.51.97] helo=joga) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from <larsi@HIDDEN>) id 1oKJVa-00048G-Ug; Sat, 06 Aug 2022 15:06:29 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> To: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#57003: 28.1.90; Can local variables be loaded before loading major mode? In-Reply-To: <87czdeoqy7.fsf@localhost> (Ihor Radchenko's message of "Fri, 05 Aug 2022 19:44:16 +0800") References: <87czdeoqy7.fsf@localhost> Date: Sat, 06 Aug 2022 15:06:26 +0200 Message-ID: <87v8r54j3h.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> writes: > Some user settings in Org mode need to be set before loading the major mode. > Further, some people want to set such settings in individual files > using file-local variables. > > However, Emacs loa [...] Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP 0.0 TVD_RCVD_IP Message was received from an IP address -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57003 Cc: 57003 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> writes: > Some user settings in Org mode need to be set before loading the major mode. > Further, some people want to set such settings in individual files > using file-local variables. > > However, Emacs loads file-local variables only _after_ major mode is > being loaded. > As a result, we are getting user requests like > https://list.orgmode.org/587be554-906c-5370-2cf2-f08b14fa58ff@HIDDEN/T/#u Is the problem here that there are defvars in the major-mode file being loaded that depend on one another? (I'm not sure I understand the explanation in that bug report.) If that's the case, then this is inherently fragile, since the user may have already loaded the .el file otherwise. So visiting files in a different order will lead to other results, and eval-ing local variables before loading the files won't really help, in general.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#57003; Package emacs.
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Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2022 19:44:16 +0800 Message-ID: <87czdeoqy7.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::636; envelope-from=yantar92@HIDDEN; helo=mail-pl1-x636.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.1 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) Hi, Some user settings in Org mode need to be set before loading the major mode. Further, some people want to set such settings in individual files using file-local variables. However, Emacs loads file-local variables only _after_ major mode is being loaded. As a result, we are getting user requests like https://list.orgmode.org/587be554-906c-5370-2cf2-f08b14fa58ff@HIDDEN/T/#u Currently, Elisp allows manual loading of file-local variables via `hack-local-variables'. However, this function itself is too forceful, and it is running, e.g. in non-file buffers. Moreover, calling `hack-local-variables' does not prevent its subsequent call after Org mode is loaded, which sometimes causes double unsafe variable prompts. See https://list.orgmode.org/87r11wkmew.fsf@HIDDEN/T/#mab6359ed2107d5515c6bb6b266551f0c5049ceca Would it be possible in Emacs to implement a function or possibly major-mode option that will make Emacs load local variables before loading major mode, not after? Best, Ihor
Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN>:bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.
Full text available.bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#57003; Package emacs.
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