Received: (at 57197) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Aug 2022 07:13:52 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Aug 15 03:13:52 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40539 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1oNUIK-0005cs-Gz for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 15 Aug 2022 03:13:52 -0400 Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([95.216.78.240]:56176) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <larsi@HIDDEN>) id 1oNUII-0005ce-1w for 57197 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 15 Aug 2022 03:13:50 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References: In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=Z2iS59rb9tOdTryqFMcox4ABJyizmZVCv5QuW3hohPA=; b=r5OMEpZ02vsKDnmoYmrx44quXk 8VuJeP4woiVIKbwTf5ggDVjIGxn6JaaDJ14FnzhrevqILwAMi63Rn/TZa0iJlND6H6jRWTPdQVuj8 5IFjrQXPRU3dW8JdBtF7RF0zGJ4WZcwhy2Q+yf8eMgiBax8/k/fngysyJH9lmJ5ctRKE=; Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=joga) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from <larsi@HIDDEN>) id 1oNUIA-0004pv-3v; Mon, 15 Aug 2022 09:13:44 +0200 From: Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@HIDDEN> To: Akib Azmain Turja <akib@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#57197: 28.1.90; Can pure side-effect-free functions use multiple CPUs in Elisp? In-Reply-To: <87a68659ro.fsf@HIDDEN> (Akib Azmain Turja's message of "Mon, 15 Aug 2022 11:57:31 +0600") References: <875yiv1mqb.fsf@localhost> <87a68659ro.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Now-Playing: Aksak Maboul's _Un Peu De L'Ame Des Bandits_: "Cinema" Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2022 09:13:41 +0200 Message-ID: <87fshyasii.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "quimby.gnus.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see @@CONTACT_ADDRESS@@ for details. Content preview: Akib Azmain Turja <akib@HIDDEN> writes: > I think the problem is the interpreter itself, which is not thread-safe. Yes, the interpreter (byte-code or not) itself is not thread-safe, so I don't think it's feasible to do anything here without a serious rewrite of that. Content analysis details: (-2.9 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -1.0 ALL_TRUSTED Passed through trusted hosts only via SMTP -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 57197 Cc: yantar92@HIDDEN, 57197 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Akib Azmain Turja <akib@HIDDEN> writes: > I think the problem is the interpreter itself, which is not thread-safe. Yes, the interpreter (byte-code or not) itself is not thread-safe, so I don't think it's feasible to do anything here without a serious rewrite of that.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#57197; Package emacs.
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To: yantar92@HIDDEN, 57197 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: bug#57197: 28.1.90; Can pure side-effect-free functions use
multiple CPUs in Elisp?
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Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2022 11:57:31 +0600
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> Hi,
>=20
> The known blocker of Elisp support of multi-threading is shared Elisp
> machine state. Handling competing access to global Elisp variables is
> tricky. However, it is not the case for pure side-effect-free functions.
>=20
> Consider the following code:
>=20
> (let (long-list-of-cons)
> (dotimes (i 100000)
> (push (cons i (1+ i)) long-list-of-cons))
> (mapcar #'car long-list-of-cons))
>=20
> The last mapcar looks like a good candidate to run on multiple CPUs.
> I imagine that instead of applying #'car sequentially, Elisp can split
> the list in chunks and run them independently on multiple CPUs. This
> operation is still blocking and thus will not create issues with shared
> access. At the same time such mapcar call will finish much faster.
>=20
> Would something like this be feasible to implement in Elisp?
>=20
> --=20
> Ihor Radchenko,
> Org mode contributor,
> Learn more about Org mode at https://orgmode.org/.
> Support Org development at https://liberapay.com/org-mode,
> or support my work at https://liberapay.com/yantar92
>
I think the problem is the interpreter itself, which is not thread-safe.
This looks like a feature request, I think emacs-devel is good for that.
=2D-=20
Akib Azmain Turja
Find me on Mastodon at @akib@HIDDEN
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From: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN>
To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
Subject: 28.1.90; Can pure side-effect-free functions use multiple CPUs in
Elisp?
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Hi,
The known blocker of Elisp support of multi-threading is shared Elisp
machine state. Handling competing access to global Elisp variables is
tricky. However, it is not the case for pure side-effect-free functions.
Consider the following code:
(let (long-list-of-cons)
(dotimes (i 100000)
(push (cons i (1+ i)) long-list-of-cons))
(mapcar #'car long-list-of-cons))
The last mapcar looks like a good candidate to run on multiple CPUs.
I imagine that instead of applying #'car sequentially, Elisp can split
the list in chunks and run them independently on multiple CPUs. This
operation is still blocking and thus will not create issues with shared
access. At the same time such mapcar call will finish much faster.
Would something like this be feasible to implement in Elisp?
--
Ihor Radchenko,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at https://orgmode.org/.
Support Org development at https://liberapay.com/org-mode,
or support my work at https://liberapay.com/yantar92
Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN>:bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.
Full text available.bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#57197; Package emacs.
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