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Subject: bug#59388: Open emacsclient file at last line
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From: Janek F <xerusx@HIDDEN>
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Hello,
I don't think there is any option right now to start emacsclient on the las=
t line of the file, barring adding lots of 9's.
For nvim and vi, one can simply omit the line number after the plus,
I think this would also be a sensible choice for emacsclient:
=E2=9D=AF emacsclient vlcrc +
Waiting for Emacs...
*ERROR*: Invalid -position command in client args
=E2=9D=AF nvim vlcrc +
=E2=9D=AF vi vlcrc +
Best,
Janek
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Subject: bug#59388: Open emacsclient file at last line
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> Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2022 11:57:25 +0000
> From: Janek F via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs,
> the Swiss army knife of text editors" <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>
>
> Hello,
>
> I don't think there is any option right now to start emacsclient on the last line of the file, barring adding lots of 9's.
What about the --eval command-line option of emacsclient?
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Subject: bug#59388: Open emacsclient file at last line
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--4Lj79iQRXp
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>> I don't think there is any option right now to start emacsclient on the
>> last line of the file, barring adding lots of 9's.
>
> What about the --eval command-line option of emacsclient?
>
It's not very convenient, you'd have to put the filename inside the
expression. What do you think of the attached patch?
--4Lj79iQRXp
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--4Lj79iQRXp--
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
Subject: bug#59388: Open emacsclient file at last line
Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
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> Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2022 17:10:02 +0000
> From: Gregory Heytings <gregory@HIDDEN>
> cc: Janek F <xerusx@HIDDEN>, 59388 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>
> >> I don't think there is any option right now to start emacsclient on the
> >> last line of the file, barring adding lots of 9's.
> >
> > What about the --eval command-line option of emacsclient?
> >
>
> It's not very convenient, you'd have to put the filename inside the
> expression.
You are probably assuming something very specific about the expression
after --eval.
> What do you think of the attached patch?
I see no important use cases for this generalization.
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>> It's not very convenient, you'd have to put the filename inside the
>> expression.
>
> You are probably assuming something very specific about the expression
> after --eval.
>
Hmmm... I must be missing something. What do you mean? emacsclient
--eval means "do not visit files but instead evaluate the arguments as
Emacs Lisp expressions".
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> Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2022 18:07:15 +0000
> From: Gregory Heytings <gregory@HIDDEN>
> cc: xerusx@HIDDEN, 59388 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>
>
> >> It's not very convenient, you'd have to put the filename inside the
> >> expression.
> >
> > You are probably assuming something very specific about the expression
> > after --eval.
> >
>
> Hmmm... I must be missing something. What do you mean? emacsclient
> --eval means "do not visit files but instead evaluate the arguments as
> Emacs Lisp expressions".
Maybe I didn't understand what you mean by "put the filename inside the
expression".
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>> Hmmm... I must be missing something. What do you mean? emacsclient
>> --eval means "do not visit files but instead evaluate the arguments as
>> Emacs Lisp expressions".
>
> Maybe I didn't understand what you mean by "put the filename inside the
> expression".
>
Well, to achieve what he wants Janek would have to do something like
emacsclient --eval '(progn (find-file "FILE") (goto-char (point-max)))'
And that also means that the default (waiting) mode of emacsclient is not
available.
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> Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2022 18:21:26 +0000
> From: Gregory Heytings <gregory@HIDDEN>
> cc: xerusx@HIDDEN, 59388 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>
> Well, to achieve what he wants Janek would have to do something like
>
> emacsclient --eval '(progn (find-file "FILE") (goto-char (point-max)))'
>
> And that also means that the default (waiting) mode of emacsclient is not
> available.
And that is a problem? This use case is explicitly for human use (in contrast
to the +LINE:COLUMN FILE case which is for programs that call $EDITOR). And it
is a rare use case on top of that. So why typing a few words is a problem, and
why does it justify yet another tweak of the UI?
But if we do want to make this easier, I'd go with a new command-line switch,
say, "--eob". The Vim way is cryptic and error-prone, so I don't think we
should do the same. And I don't see at all why would someone needs to say "N
lines from EOF".
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>> And that also means that the default (waiting) mode of emacsclient is
>> not available.
>
> And that is a problem? This use case is explicitly for human use (in
> contrast to the +LINE:COLUMN FILE case which is for programs that call
> $EDITOR). And it is a rare use case on top of that. So why typing a
> few words is a problem, and why does it justify yet another tweak of the
> UI?
>
I don't know, but I'd say that the added complexity is minimal for
something that looks like a legitimate use case.
>
> But if we do want to make this easier, I'd go with a new command-line
> switch, say, "--eob". The Vim way is cryptic and error-prone, so I
> don't think we should do the same. And I don't see at all why would
> someone needs to say "N lines from EOF".
>
One possible use case is "open a log file to look at the last N entries".
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> Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2022 19:05:57 +0000
> From: Gregory Heytings <gregory@HIDDEN>
> cc: xerusx@HIDDEN, 59388 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>
> > But if we do want to make this easier, I'd go with a new command-line
> > switch, say, "--eob". The Vim way is cryptic and error-prone, so I
> > don't think we should do the same. And I don't see at all why would
> > someone needs to say "N lines from EOF".
>
> One possible use case is "open a log file to look at the last N entries".
Going to EOB displays more than just the last line.
And the request was only to be able to go to EOB.
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On 11/19/2022 10:07 AM, Gregory Heytings wrote:
> Hmmm... I must be missing something. What do you mean? emacsclient
> --eval means "do not visit files but instead evaluate the arguments as
> Emacs Lisp expressions".
I have two thoughts about this:
1. Why does --eval do that? You can mix filenames and --eval with the
regular emacs program:
emacs -Q foo.txt --eval '(message "hi")'
Why doesn't emacsclient work similarly? (On the other hand, changing
this might break compatibility, so we should be careful here.)
2. Assuming we don't change --eval as above, maybe the proposed --apply
option discussed in bug#57752 could work:
emacsclient --apply end-of-buffer -- foo.c
I believe this would even work if you defined a shell alias like so:
alias edit=end="emacsclient --apply end-of-buffer --"
edit-end foo.txt
That said, adding --apply to emacsclient (and emacs, too!) seemed
like a fair bit of work when I looked at it...
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--9SwfQXll9v
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>>> But if we do want to make this easier, I'd go with a new command-line
>>> switch, say, "--eob". The Vim way is cryptic and error-prone, so I
>>> don't think we should do the same. And I don't see at all why would
>>> someone needs to say "N lines from EOF".
>>
>> One possible use case is "open a log file to look at the last N
>> entries".
>
> Going to EOB displays more than just the last line.
>
Yes, but point is not on the Nth line counting from EOF.
>
> And the request was only to be able to go to EOB.
>
Indeed. Like you I didn't like the Vim way, so I tried to imagine
something better. But I don't think TRT here is to add yet another
command line switch, when an already existing one can be extended
naturally to do the same thing.
Anyway, that was just a proposal, somehow I feel you don't like it, so I
don't think it's useful to continue arguing. I attach it again (I forgot
a modification to the Emacs manpage in the previous one) just in case.
--9SwfQXll9v
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> Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2022 12:08:06 -0800
> Cc: xerusx@HIDDEN, 59388 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> From: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>
>
> 1. Why does --eval do that? You can mix filenames and --eval with the
> regular emacs program:
>
> emacs -Q foo.txt --eval '(message "hi")'
>
> Why doesn't emacsclient work similarly? (On the other hand, changing
> this might break compatibility, so we should be careful here.)
I don't think we can change the semantics of --eval.
> 2. Assuming we don't change --eval as above, maybe the proposed --apply
> option discussed in bug#57752 could work:
>
> emacsclient --apply end-of-buffer -- foo.c
>
> I believe this would even work if you defined a shell alias like so:
>
> alias edit=end="emacsclient --apply end-of-buffer --"
> edit-end foo.txt
>
> That said, adding --apply to emacsclient (and emacs, too!) seemed
> like a fair bit of work when I looked at it...
Maybe we don't need to go as far as that discussion led us? Just adding a
switch --funcall, to mimic what Emacs has, could be enough? Then we'd be
able to say
emacsclient -f eob FILE
(assuming we also add a function 'eob' to Emacs).
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On 11/19/2022 12:33 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2022 12:08:06 -0800
>> Cc: xerusx@HIDDEN, 59388 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>> From: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>
>>
>> 1. Why does --eval do that? You can mix filenames and --eval with the
>> regular emacs program:
>>
>> emacs -Q foo.txt --eval '(message "hi")'
>>
>> Why doesn't emacsclient work similarly? (On the other hand, changing
>> this might break compatibility, so we should be careful here.)
>
> I don't think we can change the semantics of --eval.
Yeah, probably not. I'm not sure how important fixing this inconsistency
is, but if we *were* to fix it, I think the least-disruptive would be to
add a new option like "emacsclient --eval-one" that behaves like "emacs
--eval" and add an obsoletion warning to "emacsclient --eval". Then,
after a few versions, make "emacsclient --eval" work like "emacsclient
--eval-one".
This might be more effort than it's worth though...
> Maybe we don't need to go as far as that discussion led us? Just adding a
> switch --funcall, to mimic what Emacs has, could be enough? Then we'd be
> able to say
>
> emacsclient -f eob FILE
>
> (assuming we also add a function 'eob' to Emacs).
With the caveat that -f is already used for --server-file, I think this
would be fine. --funcall is a lot simpler to implement than --apply, at
least from emacsclient.
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> Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2022 15:06:14 -0800
> Cc: gregory@HIDDEN, xerusx@HIDDEN, 59388 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> From: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>
>
> On 11/19/2022 12:33 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > Maybe we don't need to go as far as that discussion led us? Just adding a
> > switch --funcall, to mimic what Emacs has, could be enough? Then we'd be
> > able to say
> >
> > emacsclient -f eob FILE
> >
> > (assuming we also add a function 'eob' to Emacs).
>
> With the caveat that -f is already used for --server-file, I think this
> would be fine. --funcall is a lot simpler to implement than --apply, at
> least from emacsclient.
Then I think I'm okay with adding --funcall to emacsclient, as a solution
for this feature request. With the proviso that the named function will be
called _after_ visiting the named FILE, right?
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On 11/19/2022 11:22 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2022 15:06:14 -0800
>> Cc: gregory@HIDDEN, xerusx@HIDDEN, 59388 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>> From: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>
>>
>> On 11/19/2022 12:33 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>>> Maybe we don't need to go as far as that discussion led us? Just adding a
>>> switch --funcall, to mimic what Emacs has, could be enough? Then we'd be
>>> able to say
>>>
>>> emacsclient -f eob FILE
>>>
>>> (assuming we also add a function 'eob' to Emacs).
>>
>> With the caveat that -f is already used for --server-file, I think this
>> would be fine. --funcall is a lot simpler to implement than --apply, at
>> least from emacsclient.
>
> Then I think I'm okay with adding --funcall to emacsclient, as a solution
> for this feature request. With the proviso that the named function will be
> called _after_ visiting the named FILE, right?
Assuming it's possible, I think the most flexible, obvious, and
consistent[1] way for it to work would be to obey the order of the
arguments. So "emacsclient --funcall func file.txt" calls func and then
visits file.txt, whereas "emacsclient file.txt --funcall func" visits
file.txt and then calls func.
The downside of this is that it's a little bit trickier to write an
alias for the case in this bug. 'alias edit-end="emacsclient --funcall
end-of-buffer"' wouldn't do the right thing.
I don't think that's a problem though, since the original proposal had
the same limitation: the "+" comes after the file, as in "emacsclient
file.txt +". So my suggestion above would work just like the original
proposal except that "+" is spelled differently.
[1] This is how --funcall works with the regular emacs executable, as
far as I can tell.
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> Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2022 10:49:10 -0800
> Cc: gregory@HIDDEN, xerusx@HIDDEN, 59388 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> From: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>
>
> > Then I think I'm okay with adding --funcall to emacsclient, as a solution
> > for this feature request. With the proviso that the named function will be
> > called _after_ visiting the named FILE, right?
>
> Assuming it's possible, I think the most flexible, obvious, and
> consistent[1] way for it to work would be to obey the order of the
> arguments. So "emacsclient --funcall func file.txt" calls func and then
> visits file.txt, whereas "emacsclient file.txt --funcall func" visits
> file.txt and then calls func.
This won't work, because emacsclient thinks everything after the first FILE
cannot be an option. Which is why +LINE:COLUMN FILE works, although LINE
and COLUMN refer to FILE that comes after it.
We can invoke functions in the order of --funcall's, but they should run
after visiting the file. Nothing else makes sense, and was never possible
with emacsclient anyway.
So I stand by what I wrote: --funcall'ed functions should run after
visiting FILE. It's not a problem, as you can see from the implementation
of -position in the protocol.
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On 11/20/2022 11:00 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2022 10:49:10 -0800
>> Cc: gregory@HIDDEN, xerusx@HIDDEN, 59388 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>> From: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>
>>
>>> Then I think I'm okay with adding --funcall to emacsclient, as a solution
>>> for this feature request. With the proviso that the named function will be
>>> called _after_ visiting the named FILE, right?
>>
>> Assuming it's possible, I think the most flexible, obvious, and
>> consistent[1] way for it to work would be to obey the order of the
>> arguments. So "emacsclient --funcall func file.txt" calls func and then
>> visits file.txt, whereas "emacsclient file.txt --funcall func" visits
>> file.txt and then calls func.
>
> This won't work, because emacsclient thinks everything after the first FILE
> cannot be an option. Which is why +LINE:COLUMN FILE works, although LINE
> and COLUMN refer to FILE that comes after it.
Ok, then I think your proposal is fine.
(Though these surprising differences between how "emacs" and
"emacsclient" handle arguments are making me wonder about reimplementing
the client, perhaps as "emacs-client" with a hyphen. Maybe it's worth an
experiment at least. That obviously doesn't have to happen as part of
this bug though.)
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* Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN> [2022-11-20 21:51]:
> Assuming it's possible, I think the most flexible, obvious, and
> consistent[1] way for it to work would be to obey the order of the
> arguments. So "emacsclient --funcall func file.txt" calls func and then
> visits file.txt, whereas "emacsclient file.txt --funcall func" visits
> file.txt and then calls func.
I am sure that `-e' can be used to do that all.
--
Jean
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Subject: bug#59388: Open emacsclient file at last line
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* Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> [2022-11-20 22:01]:
> We can invoke functions in the order of --funcall's, but they should run
> after visiting the file. Nothing else makes sense, and was never possible
> with emacsclient anyway.
I use `-e' to open new frame seeking for specific buffer, or invoking
specific functions.
> So I stand by what I wrote: --funcall'ed functions should run after
> visiting FILE. It's not a problem, as you can see from the implementation
> of -position in the protocol.
--funcall is similar as `-e' only limited to single function. So I
suggest that when you implement that, that --funcall may be used
also without any file, such as emacsclient -c --funcall my-function
as that way I can invoke necessary programs.
Though it is not logical to tie a "funcall" to file, file may not be
there, or it could be new file, or new frame created, or --funcall can
do useful things in the existing server.
--
Jean
Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns:
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> Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2022 11:52:48 +0300
> From: Jean Louis <bugs@HIDDEN>
> Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, gregory@HIDDEN, xerusx@HIDDEN,
> 59388 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>
> * Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN> [2022-11-20 21:51]:
> > Assuming it's possible, I think the most flexible, obvious, and
> > consistent[1] way for it to work would be to obey the order of the
> > arguments. So "emacsclient --funcall func file.txt" calls func and then
> > visits file.txt, whereas "emacsclient file.txt --funcall func" visits
> > file.txt and then calls func.
>
> I am sure that `-e' can be used to do that all.
I guess you haven't read the discussion, because this was mentioned
up-thread, and we still arrived at the above after talking about it.
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> Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2022 11:55:34 +0300
> From: Jean Louis <bugs@HIDDEN>
> Cc: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>, gregory@HIDDEN,
> xerusx@HIDDEN, 59388 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>
> * Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> [2022-11-20 22:01]:
> > We can invoke functions in the order of --funcall's, but they should run
> > after visiting the file. Nothing else makes sense, and was never possible
> > with emacsclient anyway.
>
> I use `-e' to open new frame seeking for specific buffer, or invoking
> specific functions.
Again, please read the discussion before chiming in. This is, of course,
possible, but people provided convincing reasons why it can be sometimes not
very convenient.
> > So I stand by what I wrote: --funcall'ed functions should run after
> > visiting FILE. It's not a problem, as you can see from the implementation
> > of -position in the protocol.
>
> --funcall is similar as `-e' only limited to single function. So I
> suggest that when you implement that, that --funcall may be used
> also without any file, such as emacsclient -c --funcall my-function
> as that way I can invoke necessary programs.
This is redundant, since -e already allows that.
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On 11/21/2022 5:36 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2022 11:55:34 +0300
>> From: Jean Louis <bugs@HIDDEN>
>> Cc: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>, gregory@HIDDEN,
>> xerusx@HIDDEN, 59388 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>>
>> --funcall is similar as `-e' only limited to single function. So I
>> suggest that when you implement that, that --funcall may be used
>> also without any file, such as emacsclient -c --funcall my-function
>> as that way I can invoke necessary programs.
>
> This is redundant, since -e already allows that.
I don't think there'd be a *problem* if --funcall without a file was
allowed. As you say, it's not necessary, since you can already do this
with -e, but --funcall with no files has precedent with the regular
emacs executable, so I think it'd be reasonable for emacsclient to do it
too. It's probably not a big deal either way though, given that emacs
and emacsclient already treat options quite differently.
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