GNU bug report logs - #59797
30.0.50; [wishlist] Using namespaces in Tramp's kubernetes integration

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: 30.0.50; [wishlist] Using namespaces in Tramp's kubernetes integration
Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2022 10:20:12 +0100

Hi,

Now we have kubernetes integrated in Tramp. We can access pods like
"/kubernetes:POD:/path/to/file".

However, kubernetes can much more. For all services (like pods) it
creates DNS entries "<service-name>.<namespace-name>.svc.cluster.local".
Should'nt we support this? It means should we allow to access kubernetes
pods like "/kubernetes:POD.NAMESPACE:/path/to/file", including
completion for namespace names?

Best regards, Michael.


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Message #8 received at 59797 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Filipp Gunbin <fgunbin <at> fastmail.fm>
To: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
Cc: 59797 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#59797: 30.0.50; [wishlist] Using namespaces in Tramp's
 kubernetes integration
Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2022 17:05:40 +0300

Hi,

My motivation behind adding limited k8s support to Tramp was to be able
to login into pod.  A service is a more high-level abstraction, you
cannot log into service, as there're some particular pods behind it.
From my limited knowledge and experience of k8s, listing pods in the
current namespace is ok.  We could add more scenarios when the need
arises.

Filipp

Message #11 received at 59797 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
To: Filipp Gunbin <fgunbin <at> fastmail.fm>
Cc: 59797 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#59797: 30.0.50; [wishlist] Using namespaces in Tramp's
 kubernetes integration
Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2022 16:54:47 +0100

Filipp Gunbin <fgunbin <at> fastmail.fm> writes:

> Hi,

Hi Filipp,

> My motivation behind adding limited k8s support to Tramp was to be able
> to login into pod.  A service is a more high-level abstraction, you
> cannot log into service, as there're some particular pods behind it.
> From my limited knowledge and experience of k8s, listing pods in the
> current namespace is ok.  We could add more scenarios when the need
> arises.

I don't speak about services in general. I speak about pods.

Imagine, you have "pod1" in your current context, and "pod2" in another
namespace, call it "another-namespace".

"kubectl get pods" shows you "pod1". "kubectl get pods --namespace
another-namespace" shows you "pod2".

"kubectl exec pod1 -it -- /bin/sh" access pod1 in your current
context. This is what we use when we access via remote file name syntax
"/kubernetes:pod1:".

pod2 is not accessible in your current context. But you could apply
"kubectl exec pod2 -it --namespace another-namespace -- /bin/sh". This
is what I mean with remote-file name syntax "/kubernetes:pod1.another-namespace:".

Is this possible?

> Filipp

Best regards, Michael.

Message #14 received at 59797 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Filipp Gunbin <fgunbin <at> fastmail.fm>
To: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
Cc: 59797 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#59797: 30.0.50; [wishlist] Using namespaces in Tramp's
 kubernetes integration
Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2022 16:56:30 +0300

Hi Michael,

On 05/12/2022 16:54 +0100, Michael Albinus wrote:

>> My motivation behind adding limited k8s support to Tramp was to be able
>> to login into pod.  A service is a more high-level abstraction, you
>> cannot log into service, as there're some particular pods behind it.
>> From my limited knowledge and experience of k8s, listing pods in the
>> current namespace is ok.  We could add more scenarios when the need
>> arises.
>
> I don't speak about services in general. I speak about pods.
>
> Imagine, you have "pod1" in your current context, and "pod2" in another
> namespace, call it "another-namespace".
>
> "kubectl get pods" shows you "pod1". "kubectl get pods --namespace
> another-namespace" shows you "pod2".
>
> "kubectl exec pod1 -it -- /bin/sh" access pod1 in your current
> context. This is what we use when we access via remote file name syntax
> "/kubernetes:pod1:".
>
> pod2 is not accessible in your current context. But you could apply
> "kubectl exec pod2 -it --namespace another-namespace -- /bin/sh". This
> is what I mean with remote-file name syntax "/kubernetes:pod1.another-namespace:".
>
> Is this possible?

Maybe, and there's "get pods -A" which lists all pods.  This will be
limited to current "context" in k8s meaning (covering all namespaces in
it).  I could look into this in detail in few weeks, if you'd like me
to.  It's quite a busy time at work now :-)

Filipp

Message #17 received at 59797 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
To: Filipp Gunbin <fgunbin <at> fastmail.fm>
Cc: 59797 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#59797: 30.0.50; [wishlist] Using namespaces in Tramp's
 kubernetes integration
Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2022 16:13:38 +0100

Filipp Gunbin <fgunbin <at> fastmail.fm> writes:

> Hi Michael,

Hi Filipp,

>> Is this possible?
>
> Maybe, and there's "get pods -A" which lists all pods.  This will be
> limited to current "context" in k8s meaning (covering all namespaces in
> it).  I could look into this in detail in few weeks, if you'd like me
> to.  It's quite a busy time at work now :-)

Take your time. Emacs 29.1 is on its release path, so any feature change
won't be pushed there. We could plan it for Emacs 29.2.

> Filipp

Best regards, Michael.

Message #20 received at 59797 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
To: Filipp Gunbin <fgunbin <at> fastmail.fm>
Cc: 59797 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Aaron Gonzales <aarongonzales1 <at> gmail.com>,
 Warren Lynn <wrn.lynn <at> gmail.com>
Subject: Re: bug#59797: 30.0.50; [wishlist] Using namespaces in Tramp's
 kubernetes integration
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2023 21:47:37 +0200

Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de> writes:

Hi,

>> Maybe, and there's "get pods -A" which lists all pods.  This will be
>> limited to current "context" in k8s meaning (covering all namespaces in
>> it).  I could look into this in detail in few weeks, if you'd like me
>> to.  It's quite a busy time at work now :-)
>
> Take your time. Emacs 29.1 is on its release path, so any feature change
> won't be pushed there. We could plan it for Emacs 29.2.

Finally, I've taken the stab and implemented something along these
lines. It is a little bit different from earlier proposals.

- You can now specify a container in the host name, dotted notation.
  "/kubernetes:container.pod:" accesses the given container. If it is
  not specified, as in "/kubernetes:pod:", the first container is taken.

- You can now specify different context and namespace. Change the new
  user options tramp-kubernetes-context or tramp-kubernetes-namespace
  for this effect.

Everything pushed to the Emacs and Tramp master repositories. The target
is now Tramp 2.7 / Emacs 30. Comments welcome :-)

Best regards, Michael.

Message #25 received at 59797-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
To: Filipp Gunbin <fgunbin <at> fastmail.fm>
Cc: 59797-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Aaron Gonzales <aarongonzales1 <at> gmail.com>,
 Warren Lynn <wrn.lynn <at> gmail.com>
Subject: Re: bug#59797: 30.0.50; [wishlist] Using namespaces in Tramp's
 kubernetes integration
Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2023 10:37:38 +0200

Version: 30.1

Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de> writes:

Hi,

> Everything pushed to the Emacs and Tramp master repositories. The target
> is now Tramp 2.7 / Emacs 30. Comments welcome :-)

No further comments, so I'm closing the bug.

Best regards, Michael.

Message #38 received at 59797 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
To: Eshel Yaron <me <at> eshelyaron.com>
Cc: Aaron Gonzales <aarongonzales1 <at> gmail.com>, 59797 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
 Filipp Gunbin <fgunbin <at> fastmail.fm>, Warren Lynn <wrn.lynn <at> gmail.com>
Subject: Re: bug#59797: 30.0.50; [wishlist] Using namespaces in Tramp's
 kubernetes integration
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2024 14:29:34 +0200

Eshel Yaron <me <at> eshelyaron.com> writes:

> Hi Michael,

Hi Eshel,

> Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de> writes:
>
>> Now we have kubernetes integrated in Tramp. We can access pods like
>> "/kubernetes:POD:/path/to/file".
>>
>> However, kubernetes can much more. For all services (like pods) it
>> creates DNS entries "<service-name>.<namespace-name>.svc.cluster.local".
>> Should'nt we support this? It means should we allow to access kubernetes
>> pods like "/kubernetes:POD.NAMESPACE:/path/to/file", including
>> completion for namespace names?
>
> [...]
>
>> Finally, I've taken the stab and implemented something along these
>> lines. It is a little bit different from earlier proposals.
>>
>> - You can now specify a container in the host name, dotted notation.
>>   "/kubernetes:container.pod:" accesses the given container. If it is
>>   not specified, as in "/kubernetes:pod:", the first container is taken.
>>
>> - You can now specify different context and namespace. Change the new
>>   user options tramp-kubernetes-context or tramp-kubernetes-namespace
>>   for this effect.
>>
>> Everything pushed to the Emacs and Tramp master repositories. The target
>> is now Tramp 2.7 / Emacs 30. Comments welcome :-)
>
> Sorry for not chiming in when this discussion was still ongoing, and
> thank you for your work on the Kubernetes integration.  I use it a lot.
>
> Would it be possible the reconsider adding an optional namespace to
> Tramp's Kubernetes file name syntax?  I'm thinking of something like
> "/kubernetes:[CONTAINER.]POD[.NAMESPACE]:/...".

Possible. However, the syntax is ambiguous. If we have "/kubernetes:name1.name2:/..."
it isn't clear what they are. name1 could be a container, and name2 a pod. Or
name1 is a pod, and name2 is a namespace. Could we agree on another
delimiter between POD and NAMESPACE?

> My use case is that I want to start Dired for a (container in a) pod in
> another namespace.  I can almost get there if I temporarily bind
> tramp-kubernetes-namespace around the call to dired, but the binding
> doesn't carry on to subsequent operations in the Dired buffer.  So an
> explicit namespace in default-directory could help, I think.

I see, it makes sense. My practical kubernetes experience is sparse; I
would exploit you while implementing. At least for tests.

Note also, that Emacs 30 is in pretest. Any such feature change will be
targeted to Emacs 31 / Tramp 2.8.

> Best,
>
> Eshel

Best regards, Michael.

Message #41 received at 59797 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eshel Yaron <me <at> eshelyaron.com>
To: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
Cc: Aaron Gonzales <aarongonzales1 <at> gmail.com>, 59797 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
 Filipp Gunbin <fgunbin <at> fastmail.fm>, Warren Lynn <wrn.lynn <at> gmail.com>
Subject: Re: bug#59797: 30.0.50; [wishlist] Using namespaces in Tramp's
 kubernetes integration
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2024 14:59:52 +0200

Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de> writes:

> Eshel Yaron <me <at> eshelyaron.com> writes:
>
>> Hi Michael,
>
> Hi Eshel,
>
>> Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de> writes:
>>
>>> Now we have kubernetes integrated in Tramp. We can access pods like
>>> "/kubernetes:POD:/path/to/file".
>>>
>>> However, kubernetes can much more. For all services (like pods) it
>>> creates DNS entries "<service-name>.<namespace-name>.svc.cluster.local".
>>> Should'nt we support this? It means should we allow to access kubernetes
>>> pods like "/kubernetes:POD.NAMESPACE:/path/to/file", including
>>> completion for namespace names?
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>> Finally, I've taken the stab and implemented something along these
>>> lines. It is a little bit different from earlier proposals.
>>>
>>> - You can now specify a container in the host name, dotted notation.
>>>   "/kubernetes:container.pod:" accesses the given container. If it is
>>>   not specified, as in "/kubernetes:pod:", the first container is taken.
>>>
>>> - You can now specify different context and namespace. Change the new
>>>   user options tramp-kubernetes-context or tramp-kubernetes-namespace
>>>   for this effect.
>>>
>>> Everything pushed to the Emacs and Tramp master repositories. The target
>>> is now Tramp 2.7 / Emacs 30. Comments welcome :-)
>>
>> Sorry for not chiming in when this discussion was still ongoing, and
>> thank you for your work on the Kubernetes integration.  I use it a lot.
>>
>> Would it be possible the reconsider adding an optional namespace to
>> Tramp's Kubernetes file name syntax?  I'm thinking of something like
>> "/kubernetes:[CONTAINER.]POD[.NAMESPACE]:/...".
>
> Possible. However, the syntax is ambiguous. If we have "/kubernetes:name1.name2:/..."
> it isn't clear what they are. name1 could be a container, and name2 a pod. Or
> name1 is a pod, and name2 is a namespace. Could we agree on another
> delimiter between POD and NAMESPACE?

You're absolutely right.  AFAIU from the Kubernetes documentation[0],
non-alphanumeric characters other than "-" and "." should be safe.
Maybe "@" would be the most natural choice?  "+" could work too I think.

>> My use case is that I want to start Dired for a (container in a) pod in
>> another namespace.  I can almost get there if I temporarily bind
>> tramp-kubernetes-namespace around the call to dired, but the binding
>> doesn't carry on to subsequent operations in the Dired buffer.  So an
>> explicit namespace in default-directory could help, I think.
>
> I see, it makes sense. My practical kubernetes experience is sparse; I
> would exploit you while implementing. At least for tests.

SGTM.

> Note also, that Emacs 30 is in pretest. Any such feature change will be
> targeted to Emacs 31 / Tramp 2.8.

Of course, that's fine.

Thank you!


[0] https://kubernetes.io/docs/concepts/overview/working-with-objects/namespaces/
    https://kubernetes.io/docs/concepts/overview/working-with-objects/names/

Message #44 received at 59797 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
To: Eshel Yaron <me <at> eshelyaron.com>
Cc: Aaron Gonzales <aarongonzales1 <at> gmail.com>, 59797 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
 Filipp Gunbin <fgunbin <at> fastmail.fm>, Warren Lynn <wrn.lynn <at> gmail.com>
Subject: Re: bug#59797: 30.0.50; [wishlist] Using namespaces in Tramp's
 kubernetes integration
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2024 16:13:10 +0200

Eshel Yaron <me <at> eshelyaron.com> writes:

Hi Eshel,

>> Possible. However, the syntax is ambiguous. If we have "/kubernetes:name1.name2:/..."
>> it isn't clear what they are. name1 could be a container, and name2 a pod. Or
>> name1 is a pod, and name2 is a namespace. Could we agree on another
>> delimiter between POD and NAMESPACE?
>
> You're absolutely right.  AFAIU from the Kubernetes documentation[0],
> non-alphanumeric characters other than "-" and "." should be safe.
> Maybe "@" would be the most natural choice?  "+" could work too I think.

"@" is already used for the "user <at> host" notation in Tramp. We shouldn't
confuse users with another meaning in parallel. "+" might be OK, let's
start with it. It will be a Lisp constant, we can change it any time
later. So we have "/kubernetes:[CONTAINER.]POD[+NAMESPACE]:/..." now.

(If somebody has another proposal: it's time to stand up)

> Thank you!

Best regards, Michael.

Message #47 received at 59797 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
To: Eshel Yaron <me <at> eshelyaron.com>
Cc: Aaron Gonzales <aarongonzales1 <at> gmail.com>, 59797 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
 Filipp Gunbin <fgunbin <at> fastmail.fm>, Warren Lynn <wrn.lynn <at> gmail.com>
Subject: Re: bug#59797: 30.0.50; [wishlist] Using namespaces in Tramp's
 kubernetes integration
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2024 18:48:04 +0200

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de> writes:

Hi Eshel,

>> You're absolutely right.  AFAIU from the Kubernetes documentation[0],
>> non-alphanumeric characters other than "-" and "." should be safe.
>> Maybe "@" would be the most natural choice?  "+" could work too I think.
>
> "@" is already used for the "user <at> host" notation in Tramp. We shouldn't
> confuse users with another meaning in parallel. "+" might be OK, let's
> start with it. It will be a Lisp constant, we can change it any time
> later. So we have "/kubernetes:[CONTAINER.]POD[+NAMESPACE]:/..." now.

I gave it a first try. It turns out, that "+" is a bad choice, because
it doesn't belong to tramp-host-regexp. I would need to rewrite host
name handling in Tramp just for that, which is not desirable.

tramp-host-regexp is "[%._[:alnum:]-]+". So we could take either "%" or
"_" as namespace delimiter. I've decided for "%"; a complete remote file
name for kubernetes is now "/kubernetes:[CONTAINER.]POD[%NAMESPACE]:/path/to/file".

It works OK acc to my basic tests. I have appended the patch; I would
really appreciate if you could give it more testing in your production
environment. Please sync first with the Emacs or Tramp git repo; this
morning I've pushed other changes there.

What's left is file name completion for namespaces. I'm undecided
whether we need this in practice; let's see how it goes as-it-is.

Best regards, Michael.

[Message part 2 (text/x-patch, attachment)]

Message #50 received at 59797 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eshel Yaron <me <at> eshelyaron.com>
To: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
Cc: Aaron Gonzales <aarongonzales1 <at> gmail.com>, 59797 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
 Filipp Gunbin <fgunbin <at> fastmail.fm>, Warren Lynn <wrn.lynn <at> gmail.com>
Subject: Re: bug#59797: 30.0.50; [wishlist] Using namespaces in Tramp's
 kubernetes integration
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2024 19:30:29 +0200

Hi Michael,

Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de> writes:

> I gave it a first try. It turns out, that "+" is a bad choice, because
> it doesn't belong to tramp-host-regexp. I would need to rewrite host
> name handling in Tramp just for that, which is not desirable.
>
> tramp-host-regexp is "[%._[:alnum:]-]+". So we could take either "%" or
> "_" as namespace delimiter. I've decided for "%"; a complete remote file
> name for kubernetes is now "/kubernetes:[CONTAINER.]POD[%NAMESPACE]:/path/to/file".

Makes sense.  Thank you for tackling it so promptly!

> It works OK acc to my basic tests. I have appended the patch; I would
> really appreciate if you could give it more testing in your production
> environment. Please sync first with the Emacs or Tramp git repo; this
> morning I've pushed other changes there.

From a quick test, this mostly works fine.  There's one issue (typo?) in
tramp-kubernetes--namespace that causes a regression when there's no
explicit namespace and tramp-kubernetes-namespace is nil, it returns an
empty string instead of nil.

> What's left is file name completion for namespaces. I'm undecided
> whether we need this in practice; let's see how it goes as-it-is.

It's not very crucial for me, FWIW.


Cheers,

Eshel

Message #53 received at 59797 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
To: Eshel Yaron <me <at> eshelyaron.com>
Cc: Aaron Gonzales <aarongonzales1 <at> gmail.com>, 59797 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
 Filipp Gunbin <fgunbin <at> fastmail.fm>, Warren Lynn <wrn.lynn <at> gmail.com>
Subject: Re: bug#59797: 30.0.50; [wishlist] Using namespaces in Tramp's
 kubernetes integration
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2024 10:20:40 +0200

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Eshel Yaron <me <at> eshelyaron.com> writes:

> Hi Michael,

Hi Eshel,

> From a quick test, this mostly works fine.  There's one issue (typo?) in
> tramp-kubernetes--namespace that causes a regression when there's no
> explicit namespace and tramp-kubernetes-namespace is nil, it returns an
> empty string instead of nil.

I'fixed this, see appended revised patch. I've changed also the default
value of tramp-kubernetes-namespace to nil; we shouldn't assume that
everybody wants "default" as default.

Could you give it a short test, please?

> Cheers,
>
> Eshel

Best regards, Michael.

[Message part 2 (text/x-patch, attachment)]

Message #56 received at 59797 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eshel Yaron <me <at> eshelyaron.com>
To: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
Cc: Aaron Gonzales <aarongonzales1 <at> gmail.com>, 59797 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
 Filipp Gunbin <fgunbin <at> fastmail.fm>, Warren Lynn <wrn.lynn <at> gmail.com>
Subject: Re: bug#59797: 30.0.50; [wishlist] Using namespaces in Tramp's
 kubernetes integration
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2024 12:48:42 +0200

Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de> writes:

> I'fixed this, see appended revised patch. I've changed also the default
> value of tramp-kubernetes-namespace to nil; we shouldn't assume that
> everybody wants "default" as default.

Looks good.  (I think the custom type of tramp-kubernetes-namespace may
need updating because it currently only permits string values.)

> Could you give it a short test, please?

I tried it with Dired, M-x shell, C-x C-f, remote file name completion,
everything seems to work well!


Thanks,

Eshel

Message #61 received at 59797-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
To: Eshel Yaron <me <at> eshelyaron.com>
Cc: Aaron Gonzales <aarongonzales1 <at> gmail.com>, 59797-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
 Filipp Gunbin <fgunbin <at> fastmail.fm>, Warren Lynn <wrn.lynn <at> gmail.com>
Subject: Re: bug#59797: 30.0.50; [wishlist] Using namespaces in Tramp's
 kubernetes integration
Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2024 13:42:04 +0200

Version: 31.1

Eshel Yaron <me <at> eshelyaron.com> writes:

Hi Eshel,

> Looks good.  (I think the custom type of tramp-kubernetes-namespace may
> need updating because it currently only permits string values.)

Good catch! I've fixed this.

> I tried it with Dired, M-x shell, C-x C-f, remote file name completion,
> everything seems to work well!

Thanks for the tests! I've pushed the patch to both Emacs and Tramp git
repositories, closing the bug.

> Thanks,
>
> Eshel

Best regards, Michael.

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