Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN>
to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org.
Full text available.Received: (at 60032) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Dec 2022 12:55:55 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Dec 17 07:55:55 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55810 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1p6WjK-0000aM-HL for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 17 Dec 2022 07:55:54 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:57606) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1p6Wj9-0000aB-1Q for 60032 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 17 Dec 2022 07:55:52 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1p6Wj3-0004Up-Nb; Sat, 17 Dec 2022 07:55:37 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=lZEXzAlnbWQ6/OlMv58cz4M93V9ENufuZLbeF3veHnU=; b=Ad1y6Ktu+PFi pDUQPwcAHTRHXwtDIviYha0JwR8FOmyj+fvrKgVnjZNGqQgo9k4ZfYaIq9aMbPjgCSt249OujP6xl mZvFHoKM3tH21m0F0STmNGMNoCSwBIN1ENc+3GfLsIYSYpawahs2DJlz5eUmmZ2/dgn+1sXatLvOu lFOjEc9aAzlkzFmA+UZ9WqM51tZej7wmM3vQL6n8lCAgLgx4qGU1AzxLM0pQiWaXPy7Ii8hdE30DW IcGCxs/bL830j8EQMus4fCji6kUvEAgBkvDM5D1QwNl9gpklo2kqv+l3jP35W3xokPoM7c8Arey65 SZpA2izFGTW1/RSIurbPqA==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1p6Wj3-0008Sx-8L; Sat, 17 Dec 2022 07:55:37 -0500 Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2022 14:55:43 +0200 Message-Id: <83tu1ugpf4.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <87wn6up9fc.fsf@localhost> (message from Ihor Radchenko on Wed, 14 Dec 2022 10:27:19 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#60032: 30.0.50; [WISH] Customizing Info directories References: <87zgbrbfva.fsf@localhost> <83a63rpgzd.fsf@HIDDEN> <87r0x3beqx.fsf@localhost> <834jtzpdu9.fsf@HIDDEN> <87wn6up9fc.fsf@localhost> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 60032 Cc: 60032 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> > Cc: 60032 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2022 10:27:19 +0000 > > Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: > > >> Changing environment variables is something I never ever needed to > >> customize Emacs' behaviour. Once I see it, my thinking goes: "Surely, > >> there should be some custom variable.", but no such variable exists. > > > > Does this include PATH? If not, why not? > > > > IME, the *PATH variables are quite special: they should generally be > > set from outside Emacs, and doing the same via customization options > > is usually not a good idea. > > I agree. However, I expect in-Emacs info reader to be more configurable. > It's not like info.el requires external system tools. I prefer Emacs to > be portable as much as sanely possible. Feel free to submit a patch for the master branch. We will then have enough time to see if it causes trouble for someone.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#60032; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 60032) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Dec 2022 00:23:23 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Dec 14 19:23:22 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42181 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1p5c1y-0002pz-L5 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 19:23:22 -0500 Received: from mout.web.de ([212.227.15.4]:55183) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <michael_heerdegen@HIDDEN>) id 1p5c1w-0002pr-9D for 60032 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 19:23:21 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=web.de; s=s29768273; t=1671063793; bh=930dlF1CBgytij+SzoK1D75OHFCGCsanprY/7HNlvHE=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date; b=ToJpCO8vTJ0PKOWkbRpGPuqaA1JFuIYurCyeK9lEu1NbfDVPt8Bu9opGXvsirEu+o oT8AjXcx8lAOQsJ1KJIEsFd5AAtNOfe1PhOWTjZ8/V146KxdXDe1UNLq6PdF6yHxN2 6EpksZ++FuZHf/lhTpmU2lT3ZyOogmAAtrA4c85O9ox7UMWRsZLBUPovXDKv4YC2JI jj5GaVVo9GoTqMsz/hzqr2A8BJrQHaNAWrSm7CCEbA9jOBLCTUwFWrwOyupkdZv1sU 2Z2NnyCzCC5scYax9B6PFUfNNsMWC4mfhUVGwznSVm5E4NGzKf/0rJqOQ9AmUKFX5B zcvyI2rfEP3HQ== X-UI-Sender-Class: 814a7b36-bfc1-4dae-8640-3722d8ec6cd6 Received: from drachen.dragon ([92.76.229.140]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb005 [213.165.67.108]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MFs1z-1p8cQQ1wxL-00HLdV; Thu, 15 Dec 2022 01:23:13 +0100 From: Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@HIDDEN> To: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#60032: 30.0.50; [WISH] Customizing Info directories In-Reply-To: <87zgbrbfva.fsf@localhost> (Ihor Radchenko's message of "Tue, 13 Dec 2022 13:19:37 +0000") References: <87zgbrbfva.fsf@localhost> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2022 01:23:12 +0100 Message-ID: <87pmcltszz.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:P/QJoElT9AqOiUqsFAsgwBcAxzUHp0tmzfr8aVWM5krz4G5dSbZ xGjS0mavMIbcHSA0DJcWQp+mBZKua4ttv6FYSg2khkXyv9RwqQELqf5mICPh6NoYodxk+9G Z6QjIKeltjHhF8kNnfOs3GQXHpLMOyhRWkrcPHk5vZTz7QaW23u31PWLvEhPSkXHXHW+hWk X3TdQmVVzgmJJmRr/kiZQ== X-Spam-Flag: NO UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:Bl9sBSFG5ac=;N579p9tId4UB5dzDpTmUR+H/Zea qThsC9fdz7NFkfYuVNE3fungACyrOexCVmvfNQx0Cf1wFVlkraT+P930zYGFTKXY9zY9Oep6E rbc3pKnz1xB1/TFhMiH+wSNAXqCYVgJ3vdV3Llg1TAHhnSz3stIqO964LslV0Lr5KFLi4nLrP wkBHAGvzm2IPT1LxRdcJvmdZVmp5nW7OUGsDZI4KW+PAe0ed+PM4TFlwYneNY7yQiOohQfGH8 Cq2T50IeMo8lpiB3PfKgYYYKjH0OulkND3eV6qYJNpJCf7h8q6MJNZEe32q5G7f4a1w79uaPI gau34Kn6/z+D+muo4OE+b8rR66jr4OA42lssNT9a6yJQcnkRhJFX9Z4SLAY8BoyDC/JMUal4X Z5JDqYpzS/z7mI2jGNHg8sxLR/Brg6E5xFeRl1eCNhMVL/e2lKpNfrh9qgPU1txFNoDvT8vXL iFi4bMs4yHAykaLS/yTq17baRS8aIGENk+m4dMh2BX8rgHss7/Zge45+FkHMMsJgYATUFrVTu aiKlvAlnl9vft6qLS/J4PQY3N9EyOyi8QkjsTUffyOHVYJCc7Jf3KlcT0yJjtDf8f2xbEE7nt xy2YspbR7+M9jBU1ScTvjxFoemKxXxNrESHZazHUZN7dbb+mgmGwrauQd++mh7rvJ9dNZo7a/ LyY+KeemBgFMleJh3ipPjcV2jAoZiBfHYVNJgAwVDJkzcXNPSY+y7fFbOHY7hrFJIbRVLBka7 fnaYLsm0/K+SbTXRkQSQks7z6MlC3oVLJvdToiJsEN3+vqjsrn4eYJ+YTnF5GykLtjBE5Ndl2 oYueUqHk/GJbtmh7eXTiyXZnOwRo5JMpMeqetKN+VHqiAvntjGDdovZ714YYO/fmvPnUzEZhz GOW9KZapZud/mDVP2q3J7382lN+GMsus0Da51MR2JPSkg9ecXbnCOsX/QuO0Ee2W9lxqlv5D9 JJDfnWoOwO/RkQuqsZbI09ydjdE= X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 60032 Cc: 60032 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Thierry Volpiatto <thierry.volpiatto@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> writes: > Currently, the only way I found to force adding directories as Info > sources is the following: > > (require 'info) > (info-initialize) > (add-to-list 'Info-directory-list "~/Git/org-mode/doc/") > > which is awkward. Without judgment: Yes, it can be confusing, I remember the exact same question had been raised just a few weeks ago at the emacs-helm repo (thus the CC of Thierry as notification). I struggled with myself about whether I should create a bug report, but then saw that it's probably not easy to improve the end-user situation. Michael.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#60032; Package emacs.
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From: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#60032: 30.0.50; [WISH] Customizing Info directories
In-Reply-To: <834jtzpdu9.fsf@HIDDEN>
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Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:
>> However, `Info-default-directory-list' being ignored is rather
>> surprising, especially given that setting the other defcustom
>> (`Info-additional-directory-list') does not allow overriding system
>> settings.
>
> It is done for a good reason. Setting up the list correctly is
> difficult enough, what with the requirement that Emacs's own manuals
> should sometimes be before the system-wide installation, and sometimes
> after it (to support different use cases). When INFOPATH is defined,
> and used by the stand-alone Info reader, install-info, and other
> stuff, it becomes impossible to DTRT. So we punt, in effect saying:
> if you have INFOPATH, you should already know what you are doing.
INFOPATH may be set by OS, not by user. For example, it is the case for
me. I have never changed the default value of INFOPATH, which is
non-empty on Gentoo.
> If you want the gory details (which I happily forgot), run "git log -L"
> (or vc-region-history) on the area where Info-default-directory-list
> is defined and used, and read the discussions related to the changes
> and bugs reported against that.
I fail to see why a new variable, symmetric to
`Info-additional-directory-list' cannot be added. It will be prepended,
as opposed to `Info-additional-directory-list', to the Info path.
Also, searching through the commits I noticed the following entry in
Emacs FAQ:
3.5 How do I install a piece of Texinfo documentation?
=E2=80=A2 You can create your own Info directory. You can tell Emacs wh=
ere
that Info directory is by adding its pathname to the value of the
variable =E2=80=98Info-default-directory-list=E2=80=99. For example, =
to use a
private Info directory which is a subdirectory of your home
directory named =E2=80=98Info=E2=80=99, you could put this in your ini=
t file (*note
Setting up a customization file::):
(add-to-list 'Info-default-directory-list "~/Info/")
You will need a top-level Info file named =E2=80=98dir=E2=80=99 in thi=
s directory
which has everything the system =E2=80=98dir=E2=80=99 file has in it, =
except it
should list only entries for Info files in that directory. You
might not need it if (fortuitously) all files in this directory
were referenced by other =E2=80=98dir=E2=80=99 files. The node lists =
from all
=E2=80=98dir=E2=80=99 files in =E2=80=98Info-default-directory-list=E2=
=80=99 are merged by the Info
system.
The above if not true when INFOPATH environment variable is set, AFAIU.
>> Changing environment variables is something I never ever needed to
>> customize Emacs' behaviour. Once I see it, my thinking goes: "Surely,
>> there should be some custom variable.", but no such variable exists.
>
> Does this include PATH? If not, why not?
>
> IME, the *PATH variables are quite special: they should generally be
> set from outside Emacs, and doing the same via customization options
> is usually not a good idea.
I agree. However, I expect in-Emacs info reader to be more configurable.
It's not like info.el requires external system tools. I prefer Emacs to
be portable as much as sanely possible.
--=20
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#60032; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 60032) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Dec 2022 14:39:56 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Dec 13 09:39:56 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60831 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1p56Rn-0004cY-RR for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 13 Dec 2022 09:39:56 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:42332) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1p56Rm-0004cP-E8 for 60032 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 13 Dec 2022 09:39:54 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1p56Rg-0008SE-La; Tue, 13 Dec 2022 09:39:48 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=NXAyRPkYV0hPEDJlVIkg4djRoQItvy5QtpI2c5Vura4=; b=REzLnhc1BtR4 EWX6rwl9WekYFe30iAdcRpukfBf2zSjYB9ggmnJI33LC91lNUHsyDxX3tzQ7d3xST0BI/aIDdEpll 8JeVwp0PmrqlrmUeld4LlrLU4yYUiqenjHFxaXjA2VHSqdGEORhWkFahiS5ti7gZz8vFQDdyfkIaK oM272UTwcvQYKfqoRojXzzjSc+ROV0t0Dqm+ygTmaxUFHS9Zx78uuikdppJ3m+Eq6U/Chph6LQ1uJ mw5XsAzMvd81tUE3866rjZZPh+CgHGfec1zcrs9RI2uFjQwBwqrpNF3FwvJoW2HDeA3UjnbVTjD1e 1O8jSqz7zFOOfYPp6/d8UQ==; Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1p56RX-0001ny-Az; Tue, 13 Dec 2022 09:39:46 -0500 Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2022 16:39:42 +0200 Message-Id: <834jtzpdu9.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <87r0x3beqx.fsf@localhost> (message from Ihor Radchenko on Tue, 13 Dec 2022 13:43:50 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#60032: 30.0.50; [WISH] Customizing Info directories References: <87zgbrbfva.fsf@localhost> <83a63rpgzd.fsf@HIDDEN> <87r0x3beqx.fsf@localhost> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 60032 Cc: 60032 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> > Cc: 60032 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2022 13:43:50 +0000 > > The user attempted to customize `Info-default-directory-list' and got > surprised that it was ignored. > > Upon my further investigation, `Info-default-directory-list' is indeed > ignored when INFOPATH is set by OS. Yes. But why didn't that user modify INFOPATH? > However, `Info-default-directory-list' being ignored is rather > surprising, especially given that setting the other defcustom > (`Info-additional-directory-list') does not allow overriding system > settings. It is done for a good reason. Setting up the list correctly is difficult enough, what with the requirement that Emacs's own manuals should sometimes be before the system-wide installation, and sometimes after it (to support different use cases). When INFOPATH is defined, and used by the stand-alone Info reader, install-info, and other stuff, it becomes impossible to DTRT. So we punt, in effect saying: if you have INFOPATH, you should already know what you are doing. If you want the gory details (which I happily forgot), run "git log -L" (or vc-region-history) on the area where Info-default-directory-list is defined and used, and read the discussions related to the changes and bugs reported against that. > Changing environment variables is something I never ever needed to > customize Emacs' behaviour. Once I see it, my thinking goes: "Surely, > there should be some custom variable.", but no such variable exists. Does this include PATH? If not, why not? IME, the *PATH variables are quite special: they should generally be set from outside Emacs, and doing the same via customization options is usually not a good idea.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#60032; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 60032) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Dec 2022 13:44:07 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Dec 13 08:44:07 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60480 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1p55Zm-0003tI-L2 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 13 Dec 2022 08:44:07 -0500 Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]:36301) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <yantar92@HIDDEN>) id 1p55Zk-0003so-0P for 60032 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 13 Dec 2022 08:44:04 -0500 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CE2F0240107 for <60032 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 13 Dec 2022 14:43:55 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1670939037; bh=Wp/EjRAAsSTrwc8EzpZAIS1wf8m1dKtQAghwkwCIyek=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=MqsBivdf2lUywWffEL5ES7vUeI8wg0V426ITWy/NMWjdEn2r+AWdkzlzSs+9phCtn D9XpgEfVdHKW6Fk1MVq+UQPD1aNfHZkRhgCXxblGFO9AcH0l1s2s1nYcwk5bVq1NIE i2fylVPFtpYcxOjZr/azwK2RPza7P/m+/ub1q1jU6+5f7CAlxu4eX6uItoqIlJ1wD1 DV0wz//d4HF/6H+DMNgEMF16m9Mm08RMcn7mi4yM5ycTytm66fKs4ug2cFP7kTo+J/ ROia5ccBapvdCtHJejA1nUN7bvlF37lPQ2p9Yv6AwI2jaMJ0BBrfV7J7boaQHy/mGi QF028+YZk09HA== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4NWfpy45GQz9rxN; Tue, 13 Dec 2022 14:43:51 +0100 (CET) From: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#60032: 30.0.50; [WISH] Customizing Info directories In-Reply-To: <83a63rpgzd.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <87zgbrbfva.fsf@localhost> <83a63rpgzd.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2022 13:43:50 +0000 Message-ID: <87r0x3beqx.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 60032 Cc: 60032 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: > Please describe your use case, because I don't think I see why another > variable would be needed. I guess you have INFOPATH defined (by > someone who is not you?), but you don't like its value or something? > It's not clear which problems you are trying to solve. We had a user confused about how to force Emacs info command use Org manual from git repo: https://list.orgmode.org/87359jcuoi.fsf@localhost/T/#mde65bfe981036a6ff2e1faa750670d9af648bad8 The user attempted to customize `Info-default-directory-list' and got surprised that it was ignored. Upon my further investigation, `Info-default-directory-list' is indeed ignored when INFOPATH is set by OS. I also had a similar confusion and gave up customizing Info directories at some point. Not because it is not documented, but because the setting is so unusual that I do not think about finding it. > In general, I can say 2 things, which I'm sure you already know: > > . environment variables can be set inside Emacs > . you can hack Info-directory-list in any number of ways, and do > whatever you want with it, in Lisp > > While the above two methods are not exactly what I'd suggest to an > Emacs an Info newbie, I definitely can see you using them. So again, > I'm unsure what kind of awkwardness is bothering you. Please > elaborate. I do agree that it is possible to set Info directories to desired value. However, `Info-default-directory-list' being ignored is rather surprising, especially given that setting the other defcustom (`Info-additional-directory-list') does not allow overriding system settings. Changing `Info-directory-list' is difficult because one needs to run (info-initialize), which can only be found by reading the source code. Changing environment variables is something I never ever needed to customize Emacs' behaviour. Once I see it, my thinking goes: "Surely, there should be some custom variable.", but no such variable exists. Conclusion: Current customization state is not a game breaker, but something I find confusing. That's why WISH. -- Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>. Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>, or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#60032; Package emacs.
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Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2022 15:31:50 +0200
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From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
To: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <87zgbrbfva.fsf@localhost> (message from Ihor Radchenko on Tue,
13 Dec 2022 13:19:37 +0000)
Subject: Re: bug#60032: 30.0.50; [WISH] Customizing Info directories
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> From: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN>
> Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2022 13:19:37 +0000
>
> I find the current customization of Info search path slightly awkward.
>
> Emacs Info info page suggests to set INFOPATH environment variable.
> Yet, it is not something I feel comfortable doing (it is outside the
> nice warm Elisp VM).
>
> There is also `Info-default-directory-list', but it only works for
> special non-default value of INFOPATH.
>
> Currently, the only way I found to force adding directories as Info
> sources is the following:
>
> (require 'info)
> (info-initialize)
> (add-to-list 'Info-directory-list "~/Git/org-mode/doc/")
>
> which is awkward.
>
> Would it be possible to introduce something like
> `Info-overriding-directory-list' to be added in front of Info path in
> Emacs? This will complement `Info-additional-directory-list'.
Please describe your use case, because I don't think I see why another
variable would be needed. I guess you have INFOPATH defined (by
someone who is not you?), but you don't like its value or something?
It's not clear which problems you are trying to solve.
In general, I can say 2 things, which I'm sure you already know:
. environment variables can be set inside Emacs
. you can hack Info-directory-list in any number of ways, and do
whatever you want with it, in Lisp
While the above two methods are not exactly what I'd suggest to an
Emacs an Info newbie, I definitely can see you using them. So again,
I'm unsure what kind of awkwardness is bothering you. Please
elaborate.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#60032; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Dec 2022 13:19:47 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Dec 13 08:19:47 2022 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60333 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1p55CE-0001CU-Pa for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 13 Dec 2022 08:19:47 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:55864) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <yantar92@HIDDEN>) id 1p55CD-0001CO-TG for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 13 Dec 2022 08:19:46 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <yantar92@HIDDEN>) id 1p55CD-0001ui-HU for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Tue, 13 Dec 2022 08:19:45 -0500 Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <yantar92@HIDDEN>) id 1p55CB-0003Bp-Iy for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Tue, 13 Dec 2022 08:19:45 -0500 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A0D2D240103 for <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>; Tue, 13 Dec 2022 14:19:41 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1670937581; bh=4KwcDYPDyaoo9NKlP42nIOTPhORwUdCMOCTGbI4hoEI=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:From; b=Jtl7s+7kb6D1d2vclhhtKbJ/XuBtardbC5bokJMpgUX88a8V4kbgsnDV0QaoVC1Qc 4waLeH/23FKrutZxNKGOYzjDnaJswsXzdVRM2JD3oWJmFx/UTGJaUcVB9WREMwdmZO h8cHz6EIg9oHfFPijN+Py3GmfK0jfRokBik4iUjZmxMB7aKcIRVeCa1PUVKCundedR JbhNxeK5NzaHYwOvW9UZUN/UeeNzL6KmM18/sPrDYVK3swIVYINl8BbRR3YVM/HMlZ rHgbv+TWhT3+SnNVTjUoPLiUTVM+TF3ywoPmNFy7QXA8rS/PFbVHlgtEuku4OBYgk7 p0dkKWc1AgOpg== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4NWfH10G5Pz6tqk for <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>; Tue, 13 Dec 2022 14:19:38 +0100 (CET) From: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN> To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN Subject: 30.0.50; [WISH] Customizing Info directories Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2022 13:19:37 +0000 Message-ID: <87zgbrbfva.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.66; envelope-from=yantar92@HIDDEN; helo=mout02.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) Hi, I find the current customization of Info search path slightly awkward. Emacs Info info page suggests to set INFOPATH environment variable. Yet, it is not something I feel comfortable doing (it is outside the nice warm Elisp VM). There is also `Info-default-directory-list', but it only works for special non-default value of INFOPATH. Currently, the only way I found to force adding directories as Info sources is the following: (require 'info) (info-initialize) (add-to-list 'Info-directory-list "~/Git/org-mode/doc/") which is awkward. Would it be possible to introduce something like `Info-overriding-directory-list' to be added in front of Info path in Emacs? This will complement `Info-additional-directory-list'. In GNU Emacs 30.0.50 (build 1, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.24.35, cairo version 1.17.6) of 2022-12-07 built on localhost Repository revision: f0e118d3f676afe39df29663399d4bbe8f53f208 Repository branch: master Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.12101004 System Description: Gentoo Linux -- Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>. Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>, or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>
Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN>:bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.
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