GNU bug report logs - #60078
30.0.50; Gnus: Can't remove groups of select methods that don't exist anymore

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Björn Bidar <bjorn.bidar <at> thaodan.de>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: 30.0.50; Gnus: Can't remove groups of select methods that don't
 exist anymore
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2022 00:55:56 +0200

Steps to reproduce:
1. Add select method
2. Have a group either created before or in Gnus
3. Launch Gnus
4. Quit Gnus
5. Remove select method
6. Relaunch Gnus
7. execute gnus-group-check-bogus-groups or try to delete a group in
Gnus

Result:
gnus-group-expunge-group: nil does not support expunging
gnus-get-function: Trying to require a method that doesn’t exist [2
times]

Expected result:
Groups gone, diagnostic message if needed.

Either Gnus doesn't find bogus groups for no longer existing select
methods or can't delete them.

In GNU Emacs 30.0.50 (build 1, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version
 3.24.35, cairo version 1.17.6) of 2022-12-05 built on 875212
Repository revision: 3114158a384d4c1fdc3e1845bf8a55fca7787916
Repository branch: master
System Description: Arch Linux

Configured using:
 'configure --prefix=/usr --sysconfdir=/etc --libexecdir=/usr/lib
 --localstatedir=/var --mandir=/usr/share/man --with-gameuser=:games
 --with-modules --with-libotf --without-gconf --with-libsystemd
 --enable-link-time-optimization --with-native-compilation=yes
 --with-native-compilation=aot --with-xinput2 --with-pgtk
 --without-xaw3d --with-sound=alsa --without-gpm --with-tree-sitter
 '--program-transform-name=s/\([ec]tags\)/\1.emacs/'
 'CFLAGS=-march=x86-64 -mtune=native -O2 -pipe -fno-plt -fexceptions
 -Wp,-D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=2 -Wformat -Werror=format-security
 -fstack-clash-protection -fcf-protection -flto=auto'
 'LDFLAGS=-Wl,-O1,--sort-common,--as-needed,-z,relro,-z,now -flto=auto''

Configured features:
ACL CAIRO DBUS FREETYPE GIF GLIB GMP GNUTLS GSETTINGS HARFBUZZ JPEG JSON
LCMS2 LIBOTF LIBSYSTEMD LIBXML2 MODULES NATIVE_COMP NOTIFY INOTIFY
PDUMPER PGTK PNG RSVG SECCOMP SOUND SQLITE3 THREADS TIFF
TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS TREE_SITTER WEBP XIM GTK3 ZLIB

Important settings:
  value of $LC_MONETARY: fi_FI.UTF-8
  value of $LANG: en_GB.UTF-8
  locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix

Major mode: Group

Minor modes in effect:
  magit-wip-initial-backup-mode: t
  magit-wip-before-change-mode: t
  magit-wip-after-apply-mode: t
  magit-wip-after-save-mode: t
  magit-wip-mode: t
  global-git-commit-mode: t
  magit-auto-revert-mode: t
  gnus-topic-mode: t
  global-atomic-chrome-edit-mode: t
  minions-mode: t
  back-button-mode: t
  recentf-mode: t
  savehist-mode: t
  emms-playing-time-display-mode: t
  emms-playing-time-mode: t
  autocrypt-mode: t
  gnus-desktop-notify-mode: t
  doom-modeline-mode: t
  global-auto-revert-mode: t
  org-super-agenda-mode: t
  gnus-undo-mode: t
  projectile-mode: t
  global-company-mode: t
  company-mode: t
  electric-pair-mode: t
  editorconfig-mode: t
  frames-only-mode: t
  marginalia-mode: t
  which-key-mode: t
  dired-async-mode: t
  hl-line-mode: t
  helm-mode: t
  helm-minibuffer-history-mode: t
  global-so-long-mode: t
  change-cursor-mode: t
  mode-icons-mode: t
  global-emojify-mode: t
  emojify-mode: t
  shell-dirtrack-mode: t
  server-mode: t
  helm-autoresize-mode: t
  desktop-save-mode: t
  save-place-mode: t
  delete-selection-mode: t
  override-global-mode: t
  tooltip-mode: t
  global-eldoc-mode: t
  show-paren-mode: t
  electric-indent-mode: t
  mouse-wheel-mode: t
  file-name-shadow-mode: t
  global-font-lock-mode: t
  font-lock-mode: t
  blink-cursor-mode: t
  buffer-read-only: t
  line-number-mode: t
  transient-mark-mode: t
  auto-composition-mode: t
  auto-encryption-mode: t
  auto-compression-mode: t

Load-path shadows:
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/home/bidar/.local/private/etc/emacs/lib/org-contrib/lisp/ox-groff hides /home/bidar/.local/private/etc/emacs/lib/lisp/ox-groff
/home/bidar/.local/private/etc/emacs/lib/lisp/htmlize hides /home/bidar/.local/private/etc/emacs/lib/htmlize/htmlize
/home/bidar/.local/private/etc/emacs/lib/lisp/cursor-chg hides /home/bidar/.local/private/etc/emacs/lib/cursor-chg/cursor-chg
/home/bidar/.local/private/etc/emacs/lib/cmake-mode/cmake-mode hides /usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/cmake-mode
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/home/bidar/.local/private/etc/emacs/lib/org/lisp/org-mobile hides /usr/share/emacs/30.0.50/lisp/org/org-mobile
/home/bidar/.local/private/etc/emacs/lib/org/lisp/org-macs hides /usr/share/emacs/30.0.50/lisp/org/org-macs
/home/bidar/.local/private/etc/emacs/lib/org/lisp/org-macro hides /usr/share/emacs/30.0.50/lisp/org/org-macro
/home/bidar/.local/private/etc/emacs/lib/org/lisp/org-loaddefs hides /usr/share/emacs/30.0.50/lisp/org/org-loaddefs
/home/bidar/.local/private/etc/emacs/lib/org/lisp/org-list hides /usr/share/emacs/30.0.50/lisp/org/org-list
/home/bidar/.local/private/etc/emacs/lib/org/lisp/org-lint hides /usr/share/emacs/30.0.50/lisp/org/org-lint
/home/bidar/.local/private/etc/emacs/lib/org/lisp/org-keys hides /usr/share/emacs/30.0.50/lisp/org/org-keys
/home/bidar/.local/private/etc/emacs/lib/org/lisp/org-inlinetask hides /usr/share/emacs/30.0.50/lisp/org/org-inlinetask
/home/bidar/.local/private/etc/emacs/lib/org/lisp/org-indent hides /usr/share/emacs/30.0.50/lisp/org/org-indent
/home/bidar/.local/private/etc/emacs/lib/org/lisp/org-id hides /usr/share/emacs/30.0.50/lisp/org/org-id
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/home/bidar/.local/private/etc/emacs/lib/org/lisp/ob-ditaa hides /usr/share/emacs/30.0.50/lisp/org/ob-ditaa
/home/bidar/.local/private/etc/emacs/lib/org/lisp/ob-css hides /usr/share/emacs/30.0.50/lisp/org/ob-css
/home/bidar/.local/private/etc/emacs/lib/org/lisp/ob-core hides /usr/share/emacs/30.0.50/lisp/org/ob-core
/home/bidar/.local/private/etc/emacs/lib/org/lisp/ob-comint hides /usr/share/emacs/30.0.50/lisp/org/ob-comint
/home/bidar/.local/private/etc/emacs/lib/org/lisp/ob-clojure hides /usr/share/emacs/30.0.50/lisp/org/ob-clojure
/home/bidar/.local/private/etc/emacs/lib/org/lisp/ob-calc hides /usr/share/emacs/30.0.50/lisp/org/ob-calc
/home/bidar/.local/private/etc/emacs/lib/org/lisp/ob-awk hides /usr/share/emacs/30.0.50/lisp/org/ob-awk
/home/bidar/.local/private/etc/emacs/lib/org/lisp/ob-R hides /usr/share/emacs/30.0.50/lisp/org/ob-R
/home/bidar/.local/private/etc/emacs/lib/org/lisp/ob-C hides /usr/share/emacs/30.0.50/lisp/org/ob-C
/home/bidar/.local/private/etc/emacs/lib/flim/sasl hides /usr/share/emacs/30.0.50/lisp/net/sasl

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Memory information:
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Message #8 received at 60078 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Jakub Ječmínek <kuba <at> kubajecminek.cz>
To: Björn Bidar <bjorn.bidar <at> thaodan.de>
Cc: 60078 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#60078: 30.0.50;
 Gnus: Can't remove groups of select methods that don't exist anymore
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2024 23:01:18 +0000

Björn Bidar <bjorn.bidar <at> thaodan.de> writes:

> Steps to reproduce:
> 1. Add select method
> 2. Have a group either created before or in Gnus
> 3. Launch Gnus
> 4. Quit Gnus
> 5. Remove select method
> 6. Relaunch Gnus
> 7. execute gnus-group-check-bogus-groups or try to delete a group in
> Gnus
>
> Result:
> gnus-group-expunge-group: nil does not support expunging
> gnus-get-function: Trying to require a method that doesn’t exist [2
> times]
>
> Expected result:
> Groups gone, diagnostic message if needed.
>
> Either Gnus doesn't find bogus groups for no longer existing select
> methods or can't delete them.

Hello Björn, thanks for the bug report. I believe that the "correct" way
to deal with such groups is simply to kill them (C-k in *Group* buffer).

The documenatation says the following about the bogus group:

A group that exists in the ‘.newsrc’ file, but isn’t known to the server
(i.e., it isn’t in the active file), is a _bogus group_.  This means
that the group probably doesn’t exist (any more).

So basically if you remove the select method corresponding to a
particular group then Gnus is not able to check for bogus groups.

-- 
Kuba Ječmínek (http://kubajecminek.cz)

Message #11 received at 60078 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eric Abrahamsen <eric <at> ericabrahamsen.net>
To: Jakub Ječmínek via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the
 Swiss army knife of text editors" <bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 60078 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
 Björn Bidar <bjorn.bidar <at> thaodan.de>,
 Jakub Ječmínek <kuba <at> kubajecminek.cz>
Subject: Re: bug#60078: 30.0.50; Gnus: Can't remove groups of select methods
 that don't exist anymore
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2024 19:26:08 -0800

Jakub Ječmínek via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of
text editors" <bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org> writes:

> Björn Bidar <bjorn.bidar <at> thaodan.de> writes:
>
>> Steps to reproduce:
>> 1. Add select method
>> 2. Have a group either created before or in Gnus
>> 3. Launch Gnus
>> 4. Quit Gnus
>> 5. Remove select method
>> 6. Relaunch Gnus
>> 7. execute gnus-group-check-bogus-groups or try to delete a group in
>> Gnus
>>
>> Result:
>> gnus-group-expunge-group: nil does not support expunging
>> gnus-get-function: Trying to require a method that doesn’t exist [2
>> times]
>>
>> Expected result:
>> Groups gone, diagnostic message if needed.
>>
>> Either Gnus doesn't find bogus groups for no longer existing select
>> methods or can't delete them.
>
> Hello Björn, thanks for the bug report. I believe that the "correct" way
> to deal with such groups is simply to kill them (C-k in *Group* buffer).
>
> The documenatation says the following about the bogus group:
>
> A group that exists in the ‘.newsrc’ file, but isn’t known to the server
> (i.e., it isn’t in the active file), is a _bogus group_.  This means
> that the group probably doesn’t exist (any more).
>
> So basically if you remove the select method corresponding to a
> particular group then Gnus is not able to check for bogus groups.

My understanding of checking for bogus group is that it should handle
precisely these circumstances: removing groups that no longer have a
corresponding select method.

I tried Björn's recipe in the gnus-mock package, which is the closest
thing I've got to a uncustomized Gnus. Replacing the principle select
method (previously nnmaildir) with nnnil, restarting Gnus, and running
"b", correctly prompted me to remove the three groups that had
previously belonged to the nnmaildir server.

I'm guessing that Björn has some expunging-related customization that
attempts to expunge messages early on, maybe during the active-file
reading that happens as the first step of checking for bogus groups?
Gnus is trying to get the nonexistent select method to expunge its
articles before it has a chance to remove the groups.

Just a guess...

Message #17 received at 60078 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Jakub Ječmínek <kuba <at> kubajecminek.cz>
To: Eric Abrahamsen <eric <at> ericabrahamsen.net>
Cc: 60078 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
 Björn Bidar <bjorn.bidar <at> thaodan.de>
Subject: Re: bug#60078: 30.0.50;
 Gnus: Can't remove groups of select methods that don't exist anymore
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2024 09:22:58 +0000

"Eric Abrahamsen" <eric <at> ericabrahamsen.net> writes:

> I tried Björn's recipe in the gnus-mock package, which is the closest
> thing I've got to a uncustomized Gnus. Replacing the principle select
> method (previously nnmaildir) with nnnil, restarting Gnus, and running
> "b", correctly prompted me to remove the three groups that had
> previously belonged to the nnmaildir server.

Can you try that with `gnus-secondary-select-methods'?

-- 
Kuba Ječmínek (http://kubajecminek.cz)

Message #20 received at 60078 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eric Abrahamsen <eric <at> ericabrahamsen.net>
To: Jakub Ječmínek <kuba <at> kubajecminek.cz>
Cc: 60078 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
 Björn Bidar <bjorn.bidar <at> thaodan.de>
Subject: Re: bug#60078: 30.0.50; Gnus: Can't remove groups of select methods
 that don't exist anymore
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2024 08:12:41 -0800

On 02/23/24 09:22 AM, Jakub Ječmínek wrote:
> "Eric Abrahamsen" <eric <at> ericabrahamsen.net> writes:
>
>> I tried Björn's recipe in the gnus-mock package, which is the closest
>> thing I've got to a uncustomized Gnus. Replacing the principle select
>> method (previously nnmaildir) with nnnil, restarting Gnus, and running
>> "b", correctly prompted me to remove the three groups that had
>> previously belonged to the nnmaildir server.
>
> Can you try that with `gnus-secondary-select-methods'?

Oh weird, in that case I don't get an error, but it also doesn't offer
to remove the groups -- nothing happens at all. I'll look into this a
little more closely.

Message #23 received at 60078 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Jakub Ječmínek <kuba <at> kubajecminek.cz>
To: Eric Abrahamsen <eric <at> ericabrahamsen.net>
Cc: 60078 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
 Björn Bidar <bjorn.bidar <at> thaodan.de>
Subject: Re: bug#60078: 30.0.50;
 Gnus: Can't remove groups of select methods that don't exist anymore
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2024 21:10:31 +0000

Eric Abrahamsen <eric <at> ericabrahamsen.net> writes:

> On 02/23/24 09:22 AM, Jakub Ječmínek wrote:
>> "Eric Abrahamsen" <eric <at> ericabrahamsen.net> writes:
>>
>>> I tried Björn's recipe in the gnus-mock package, which is the closest
>>> thing I've got to a uncustomized Gnus. Replacing the principle select
>>> method (previously nnmaildir) with nnnil, restarting Gnus, and running
>>> "b", correctly prompted me to remove the three groups that had
>>> previously belonged to the nnmaildir server.
>>
>> Can you try that with `gnus-secondary-select-methods'?
>
> Oh weird, in that case I don't get an error, but it also doesn't offer
> to remove the groups -- nothing happens at all. I'll look into this a
> little more closely.

Have you managed to make any progress, Eric?

Best

-- 
Kuba Ječmínek (http://kubajecminek.cz)

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