GNU bug report logs - #61667
29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
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Package: emacs;
Reported by: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>; dated Tue, 21 Feb 2023 02:55:01 UTC;
Maintainer for emacs is
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.
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Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
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To: Andreas Schwab <schwab@HIDDEN>
References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
<8f4df0d7-eb1a-379a-db03-314f2c93743b@HIDDEN> <87a60vztad.fsf@HIDDEN>
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<60c92936-2a75-a254-145a-6a0a1656a645@HIDDEN>
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From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
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Cc: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>, 61667 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
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On 18/04/2023 10:01, Andreas Schwab wrote:
> On Apr 18 2023, Dmitry Gutov wrote:
>
>> Reminder: ae4ff4f25fbf doesn't build without 9510e8ad682 (and is its
>> parent).
>>
>> Reverting 9510e8ad682 doesn't quite work, at least not too easily:
> ae4ff4f25fbf reverts cleanly alone without 9510e8ad682, since the latter
> just adds the files that are used by the former.
Good point, thanks.
So yes, I can confirm: 'git revert ae4ff4f25fbf; make' improves the
situation.
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
Full text available.
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From: Andreas Schwab <schwab@HIDDEN>
To: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
In-Reply-To: <500fd02e-3392-079b-6b62-4872d1a0ac1a@HIDDEN> (Dmitry Gutov's
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X-Yow: I'm also against BODY-SURFING!!
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2023 09:01:36 +0200
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On Apr 18 2023, Dmitry Gutov wrote:
> Reminder: ae4ff4f25fbf doesn't build without 9510e8ad682 (and is its
> parent).
>
> Reverting 9510e8ad682 doesn't quite work, at least not too easily:
ae4ff4f25fbf reverts cleanly alone without 9510e8ad682, since the latter
just adds the files that are used by the former.
--
Andreas Schwab, schwab@HIDDEN
GPG Key fingerprint = 7578 EB47 D4E5 4D69 2510 2552 DF73 E780 A9DA AEC1
"And now for something completely different."
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
Full text available.
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From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>
To: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
In-Reply-To: <500fd02e-3392-079b-6b62-4872d1a0ac1a@HIDDEN> (Dmitry Gutov's
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References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
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Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2023 10:12:22 +0800
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Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN> writes:
> Should I still try reverting the commits on top of the current master?
Yes, please try that.
> Perhaps you can provide a patch to try?
Unfortunately, I'm too busy at the moment.
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
Full text available.
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Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
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To: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>
References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
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From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
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On 18/04/2023 04:35, Po Lu via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army
knife of text editors wrote:
> What if you only revert this commit on top of master? This change should
> not affect redisplay at all, as it only adds additional mechanisms for
> talking with the input method.
Reminder: ae4ff4f25fbf doesn't build without 9510e8ad682 (and is its
parent).
Reverting 9510e8ad682 doesn't quite work, at least not too easily:
$ git revert 9510e8ad682
CONFLICT (modify/delete): src/textconv.c deleted in parent of
9510e8ad682 (Check in new files) and modified in HEAD. Version HEAD of
src/textconv.c left in tree.
error: could not revert 9510e8ad682... Check in new files
hint: After resolving the conflicts, mark them with
hint: "git add/rm <pathspec>", then run
hint: "git revert --continue".
hint: You can instead skip this commit with "git revert --skip".
hint: To abort and get back to the state before "git revert",
hint: run "git revert --abort".
And I also tested (and re-tested, several times) the parent of
ae4ff4f25fbf, which (almost) doesn't have the described problem.
Should I still try reverting the commits on top of the current master?
Perhaps you can provide a patch to try?
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
Full text available.
Message received at 61667 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:
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From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>
To: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
In-Reply-To: <173d7dfc-6454-4e81-6f62-bef69a829f18@HIDDEN> (Dmitry Gutov's
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<43d50d6a-1eb0-cd42-0479-3f9d4d74904a@HIDDEN>
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Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2023 09:35:12 +0800
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Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN> writes:
> Finished now. It was a pain because the offending commit predated the
> two commits that fixed the build without XDBE (4dc1f2b9a01e and
> f1c838980601), so I had to dump them as patch files and apply when
> building older commits.
>
> ae4ff4f25fbf704446f8f38d8e818f223b79042b is the first bad commit
> commit ae4ff4f25fbf704446f8f38d8e818f223b79042b
> Author: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>
> Date: Sun Feb 12 19:55:28 2023 +0800
>
> Support input method ``text conversion'' on X Windows
>
> * configure.ac (HAVE_TEXT_CONVERSION): Define on X.
> * etc/NEWS: Announce new change.
> * src/emacs.c (main): Always call init_xterm.
> * src/frame.c (do_switch_frame): Use `fset_selected_window'.
> * src/insdel.c (struct safe_del_range_context): New structure.
> (safe_del_range_1, safe_del_range_2, safe_del_range): New
> functions.
> * src/lisp.h: Export new functions.
> * src/window.c (run_window_change_functions): Report selected
> window and buffer changes so that the input method can be reset.
> * src/xfns.c (XICCallback, Xxic_preedit_caret_callback)
> (Xxic_preedit_done_callback, Xxic_preedit_start_callback)
> (Xxic_preedit_draw_callback): Fix coding style.
> (Xxic_string_conversion_callback): New callback.
> (create_frame_xic): Register string conversion callback.
> (struct x_xim_text_conversion_data): New field `size'.
> (x_encode_xim_text_1, x_encode_xim_text): New functions.
> (xic_string_conversion_callback): New function.
> * src/xterm.c (x_reset_conversion): New function.
> (text_conversion_interface): New variable.
> (init_xterm): Initialize text conversion interface.
>
> (Together with the next one, 9510e8ad68271f58b4, which it doesn't
> build without).
>
> I've double checked that 9510e8ad682 exhibits the problem (with Lucid
> and xdbe=off), whereas ae4ff4f25fbf's parent (50140585a29) does not.
What if you only revert this commit on top of master? This change should
not affect redisplay at all, as it only adds additional mechanisms for
talking with the input method.
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
Full text available.
Message received at 61667 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:
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Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
Content-Language: en-US
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
<87sfeozn8f.fsf@HIDDEN>
<ba5a637e-70ee-3d89-8c0a-7e04fb987c6b@HIDDEN>
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From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <83pm839rai.fsf@HIDDEN>
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On 17/04/2023 05:27, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2023 00:17:45 +0300
>> Cc: luangruo@HIDDEN, 61667 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, gregory@HIDDEN
>> From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
>>
>> I was kind of expecting xargs to know MS-Windows' command line limits,
>> i.e. from its manual:
>>
>> The largest allowed
>> value is system-dependent, and is calculated as
>> the argument length limit for exec, less the size of your environment,
>> less 2048 bytes of headroom. ... xargs automatically adapts to tighter
>> constraints.
>
> Suggest to take this up with the developers of GNU Findutils.
I imagine they'd prefer a report from somebody using the platform, who
can follow up with details and so on.
Anyway, if the bug is there, we can of course work around it.
Does this work?
BTW, it seems like grep-compute-defaults should also insert '-s 10000'
somewhere when xargs is used. Or is it usually not used on Windows?
diff --git a/lisp/progmodes/xref.el b/lisp/progmodes/xref.el
index d77024136d0..10b32fa629d 100644
--- a/lisp/progmodes/xref.el
+++ b/lisp/progmodes/xref.el
@@ -1820,16 +1820,22 @@ xref-matches-in-directory
;; Ripgrep gets jumbled output, though, even with --line-buffered.
;; But Grep seems to be stable. Even without --line-buffered.
(defcustom xref-search-program-alist
- '((grep
- .
- ;; '-s' because 'git ls-files' can output broken symlinks.
- "xargs -0 grep <C> --null -snHE -e <R>")
- (ripgrep
- .
- ;; '!*/' is there to filter out dirs (e.g. submodules).
- "xargs -0 rg <C> --null -nH --no-heading --no-messages -g '!*/' -e
<R>"
- )
- (ugrep . "xargs -0 ugrep <C> --null -ns -e <R>"))
+ (let ((xargs-max-chars
+ (and (memq system-type '(windows-nt ms-dos))
+ "-s 10000 ")))
+ `((grep
+ .
+ ;; '-s' because 'git ls-files' can output broken symlinks.
+ ,(concat "xargs -0 " xargs-max-chars "grep <C> --null -snHE -e
<R>"))
+ (ripgrep
+ .
+ ;; '!*/' is there to filter out dirs (e.g. submodules).
+ ,(concat "xargs -0 "
+ xargs-max-chars
+ "rg <C> --null -nH --no-heading --no-messages -g '!*/'
-e <R>"))
+ (ugrep
+ .
+ ,(concat "xargs -0 " xargs-max-chars "ugrep <C> --null -ns -e
<R>"))))
"Association list mapping program identifiers to command templates.
Program identifier should be a symbol, named after the search program.
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
Full text available.
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Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
Content-Language: en-US
From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
<87sfeozn8f.fsf@HIDDEN> <ba5a637e-70ee-3d89-8c0a-7e04fb987c6b@HIDDEN>
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On 18/04/2023 02:07, Dmitry Gutov wrote:
> I've double checked that 9510e8ad682 exhibits the problem (with Lucid
> and xdbe=off), whereas ae4ff4f25fbf's parent (50140585a29) does not.
Correction: 50140585a29 can exhibit the problem too, but like once every
100 tries or so. So I guess my previous one-off observations on emacs-29
and emacs-28 might have been correct.
But the next two commits (ae4ff4f25fb and 9510e8ad682), and all
subsequent ones so far, reproduce the problem ~once every 5 tries.
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
Full text available.
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Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
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To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
<87zg8xyt0m.fsf@HIDDEN>
<25c817d9-f969-8c24-6ed4-9b35fd6f27ad@HIDDEN>
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From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
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On 17/04/2023 05:31, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2023 01:26:28 +0300
>> Cc: 61667 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>> From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
>>
>>> Dmitry, does this happen with Emacs 28?
>>
>> Actually, this one might be a master-only problem.
>
> I wasn't aware of that; the Subject says 29. I tried on the release
> branch and in the installed 29.0.90.
The behavior is very similar to the one originally reported in this bug.
At first the news was that the Lucid build doesn't help (on emacs-29 or
master), because this scenario manifests when using it.
Then I've tried a build with xdbe=off, and now I can't quite remember
from which branch it was. When doing subsequent testing, I think I've
seen this problem once (probably just once) on branches emacs-29 and
emacs-28, but neither was repeatable, so we might chalk that up to my
faulty memory/cognition.
>> But it's pretty easy to repro on master. I'll try to bisect and report back.
Finished now. It was a pain because the offending commit predated the
two commits that fixed the build without XDBE (4dc1f2b9a01e and
f1c838980601), so I had to dump them as patch files and apply when
building older commits.
ae4ff4f25fbf704446f8f38d8e818f223b79042b is the first bad commit
commit ae4ff4f25fbf704446f8f38d8e818f223b79042b
Author: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>
Date: Sun Feb 12 19:55:28 2023 +0800
Support input method ``text conversion'' on X Windows
* configure.ac (HAVE_TEXT_CONVERSION): Define on X.
* etc/NEWS: Announce new change.
* src/emacs.c (main): Always call init_xterm.
* src/frame.c (do_switch_frame): Use `fset_selected_window'.
* src/insdel.c (struct safe_del_range_context): New structure.
(safe_del_range_1, safe_del_range_2, safe_del_range): New
functions.
* src/lisp.h: Export new functions.
* src/window.c (run_window_change_functions): Report selected
window and buffer changes so that the input method can be reset.
* src/xfns.c (XICCallback, Xxic_preedit_caret_callback)
(Xxic_preedit_done_callback, Xxic_preedit_start_callback)
(Xxic_preedit_draw_callback): Fix coding style.
(Xxic_string_conversion_callback): New callback.
(create_frame_xic): Register string conversion callback.
(struct x_xim_text_conversion_data): New field `size'.
(x_encode_xim_text_1, x_encode_xim_text): New functions.
(xic_string_conversion_callback): New function.
* src/xterm.c (x_reset_conversion): New function.
(text_conversion_interface): New variable.
(init_xterm): Initialize text conversion interface.
(Together with the next one, 9510e8ad68271f58b4, which it doesn't build
without).
I've double checked that 9510e8ad682 exhibits the problem (with Lucid
and xdbe=off), whereas ae4ff4f25fbf's parent (50140585a29) does not.
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
Full text available.
Message received at 61667 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:
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From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
To: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <8dc8e984-d450-cd43-5b64-4be552e88192@HIDDEN> (message from
Dmitry Gutov on Mon, 17 Apr 2023 01:26:28 +0300)
Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
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> Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2023 01:26:28 +0300
> Cc: 61667 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
>
> > Dmitry, does this happen with Emacs 28?
>
> Actually, this one might be a master-only problem.
I wasn't aware of that; the Subject says 29. I tried on the release
branch and in the installed 29.0.90.
> But it's pretty easy to repro on master. I'll try to bisect and report back.
Thanks.
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
Full text available.
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From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
To: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <108c97ff-419c-8ef4-f0d0-1417df4bd37e@HIDDEN> (message from
Dmitry Gutov on Mon, 17 Apr 2023 00:17:45 +0300)
Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
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> Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2023 00:17:45 +0300
> Cc: luangruo@HIDDEN, 61667 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, gregory@HIDDEN
> From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
>
> I was kind of expecting xargs to know MS-Windows' command line limits,
> i.e. from its manual:
>
> The largest allowed
> value is system-dependent, and is calculated as
> the argument length limit for exec, less the size of your environment,
> less 2048 bytes of headroom. ... xargs automatically adapts to tighter
> constraints.
Suggest to take this up with the developers of GNU Findutils.
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to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
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Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
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To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
<875ybl1dii.fsf@HIDDEN>
<2b249c97-db63-34e1-80c2-0c898005e31f@HIDDEN>
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<43d50d6a-1eb0-cd42-0479-3f9d4d74904a@HIDDEN>
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<8f4df0d7-eb1a-379a-db03-314f2c93743b@HIDDEN>
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From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
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On 16/04/2023 21:50, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2023 20:46:39 +0300
>> From: "Dmitry Gutov" <dgutov@HIDDEN>
>>
>> When you say "gets updated noticeably faster", what exactly do you
>> mean? by how much time does the redraw of the windows lag after the
>> title bar update?
>>
>> Can be on the order of seconds or indefinitely, just like described before.
>
> That's strange. Po Lu, what could prevent the results of rdisplay
> from appearing on the glass in this case? AFAIR, we simply call
> XFlush when the update of the frame is done; we don't wait for any X
> event to trigger redrawing on the glass.
>
> Dmitry, does this happen with Emacs 28?
Actually, this one might be a master-only problem. At least, I'm
currently unable to reproduce this with emacs-29, and (probably) saw
this only once on emacs-28, out of >50 tries. All with Lucid and xdbe=off.
But it's pretty easy to repro on master. I'll try to bisect and report back.
BTW, I forgot one step which is possibly necessary for reproduction
(step 1.5): maximize the frame.
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
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Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
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To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
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<25c817d9-f969-8c24-6ed4-9b35fd6f27ad@HIDDEN>
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<8f4df0d7-eb1a-379a-db03-314f2c93743b@HIDDEN>
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From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
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On 16/04/2023 22:01, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> This xargs command:
>
> '((grep
> .
> ;; '-s' because 'git ls-files' can output broken symlinks.
> "xargs -0 grep <C> --null -snHE -e <R>")
>
> is not portable: it assumes that there's no limit to the size of shell
> commands that xargs can pass to Grep. At least on MS-Windows, you
> need to use something like "xargs -0 -s 10000 grep ..." instead.
Thank you. Too bad nobody has reported this in the last several years
(we've been using this 'xargs ... grep' scheme since before the
introduction of xref-matches-in-files in 2019).
I was kind of expecting xargs to know MS-Windows' command line limits,
i.e. from its manual:
The largest allowed
value is system-dependent, and is calculated as
the argument length limit for exec, less the size of your environment,
less 2048 bytes of headroom. ... xargs automatically adapts to tighter
constraints.
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
Full text available.
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From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
To: "Dmitry Gutov" <dgutov@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <57ea9d35-e64e-4cfb-b39f-370a02742884@HIDDEN>
(dgutov@HIDDEN)
Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
<7fee18a7-3307-b6de-1428-ae17d51c85af@HIDDEN>
<9ac9271f1ee55a9b8bbf@HIDDEN> <87a60y13ou.fsf@HIDDEN>
<674e150e-fcbe-7d67-962e-214cfaec2ca0@HIDDEN>
<875ybl1dii.fsf@HIDDEN>
<2b249c97-db63-34e1-80c2-0c898005e31f@HIDDEN>
<87zg8xyt0m.fsf@HIDDEN>
<25c817d9-f969-8c24-6ed4-9b35fd6f27ad@HIDDEN>
<87sfeozn8f.fsf@HIDDEN>
<ba5a637e-70ee-3d89-8c0a-7e04fb987c6b@HIDDEN>
<87o7pczlsq.fsf@HIDDEN>
<43d50d6a-1eb0-cd42-0479-3f9d4d74904a@HIDDEN>
<87ilfkyorf.fsf@HIDDEN>
<8f4df0d7-eb1a-379a-db03-314f2c93743b@HIDDEN>
<87a60vztad.fsf@HIDDEN> <14405ac4f8f101c35628@HIDDEN>
<60c92936-2a75-a254-145a-6a0a1656a645@HIDDEN>
<8eda4f1e-233e-4963-1b1d-75945eca01d4@HIDDEN>
<874jr2y7qk.fsf@HIDDEN>
<e76bdf9c-7fd9-a3b8-aa0b-526881a403e8@HIDDEN>
<66e8b8a4-fa14-800e-659c-d8db1134d71a@HIDDEN>
<83r0skbc20.fsf@HIDDEN>
<23d8f88d-c694-faa0-93f6-1a282443b27d@HIDDEN>
<83cz44asoz.fsf@HIDDEN>
<7d0c9615-a5ae-651d-dab5-ba767454b7bf@HIDDEN>
<834jpfby3t.fsf@HIDDEN>
<1f68a588-8db1-40e6-8f62-f5032a759725@HIDDEN>
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> Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2023 20:47:42 +0300
> From: "Dmitry Gutov" <dgutov@HIDDEN>
> Cc: luangruo@HIDDEN, 61667 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, gregory@HIDDEN
>
> On Sun, Apr 16, 2023, at 8:26 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>
> > Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2023 20:14:24 +0300
> > From: "Dmitry Gutov" <dgutov@HIDDEN>
> > Cc: luangruo@HIDDEN, 61667 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, gregory@HIDDEN
> >
> > 'C-x p g' doesn't find any matches for this input? That's odd.
>
> Which external commands it is supposed to run?
>
> External? 'git ls-files' followed by piping the list to 'grep'.
This xargs command:
'((grep
.
;; '-s' because 'git ls-files' can output broken symlinks.
"xargs -0 grep <C> --null -snHE -e <R>")
is not portable: it assumes that there's no limit to the size of shell
commands that xargs can pass to Grep. At least on MS-Windows, you
need to use something like "xargs -0 -s 10000 grep ..." instead.
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
Full text available.
Message received at 61667 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:
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From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
To: "Dmitry Gutov" <dgutov@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <73ca92d3-bdd8-4d78-a4b1-ac7263db79c8@HIDDEN>
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Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
<7fee18a7-3307-b6de-1428-ae17d51c85af@HIDDEN>
<9ac9271f1ee55a9b8bbf@HIDDEN> <87a60y13ou.fsf@HIDDEN>
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<87zg8xyt0m.fsf@HIDDEN>
<25c817d9-f969-8c24-6ed4-9b35fd6f27ad@HIDDEN>
<87sfeozn8f.fsf@HIDDEN>
<ba5a637e-70ee-3d89-8c0a-7e04fb987c6b@HIDDEN>
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> Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2023 20:46:39 +0300
> From: "Dmitry Gutov" <dgutov@HIDDEN>
>
> When you say "gets updated noticeably faster", what exactly do you
> mean? by how much time does the redraw of the windows lag after the
> title bar update?
>
> Can be on the order of seconds or indefinitely, just like described before.
That's strange. Po Lu, what could prevent the results of rdisplay
from appearing on the glass in this case? AFAIR, we simply call
XFlush when the update of the frame is done; we don't wait for any X
event to trigger redrawing on the glass.
Dmitry, does this happen with Emacs 28?
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
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<25c817d9-f969-8c24-6ed4-9b35fd6f27ad@HIDDEN>
<87sfeozn8f.fsf@HIDDEN>
<ba5a637e-70ee-3d89-8c0a-7e04fb987c6b@HIDDEN>
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<43d50d6a-1eb0-cd42-0479-3f9d4d74904a@HIDDEN>
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Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2023 21:11:07 +0300
From: Dmitry <dmitry@HIDDEN>
To: "Eli Zaretskii" <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
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On Sun, Apr 16, 2023, at 8:47 PM, Dmitry Gutov wrote:
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 16, 2023, at 8:26 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> > Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2023 20:14:24 +0300
>> > From: "Dmitry Gutov" <dgutov@HIDDEN>
>> > Cc: luangruo@HIDDEN, 61667 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, gregory@HIDDEN
>> >
>> > 'C-x p g' doesn't find any matches for this input? That's odd.
>>
>> Which external commands it is supposed to run?
> External? 'git ls-files' followed by piping the list to 'grep'.
Piping using 'xargs', that is.
--1409358b271e4cb58022080a699a1af9
Content-Type: text/html
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<!DOCTYPE html><html><head><title></title><style type=3D"text/css">
p.MsoNormal,p.MsoNoSpacing{margin:0}</style></head><body><div>On Sun, Ap=
r 16, 2023, at 8:47 PM, Dmitry Gutov wrote:<br></div><blockquote type=3D=
"cite" id=3D"qt" style=3D""><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>On Sun, A=
pr 16, 2023, at 8:26 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote:<br></div><blockquote type=3D=
"cite" id=3D"qt-qt" style=3D""><div>> Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2023 20:14:24=
+0300<br></div><div>> From: "Dmitry Gutov" <<a href=3D"mailto:dgu=
tov@HIDDEN">dgutov@HIDDEN</a>><br></div><div>> Cc: <a h=
ref=3D"mailto:luangruo@HIDDEN">luangruo@HIDDEN</a>, <a href=3D=
"mailto:61667 <at> debbugs.gnu.org">61667 <at> debbugs.gnu.org</a>, <a href=3D=
"mailto:gregory@HIDDEN">gregory@HIDDEN</a><br></div><div>>=
; <br></div><div>> 'C-x p g' doesn't find any matches for this i=
nput? That's odd.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Which external commands i=
t is supposed to run?<br></div></blockquote><div>External? 'git ls-files=
' followed by piping the list to 'grep'.<br></div></blockquote><div>Pipi=
ng using 'xargs', that is.</div></body></html>
--1409358b271e4cb58022080a699a1af9--
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Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2023 20:47:42 +0300
From: "Dmitry Gutov" <dgutov@HIDDEN>
To: "Eli Zaretskii" <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
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--7f922a7112ed48afa1ee280b7fc15f55
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On Sun, Apr 16, 2023, at 8:26 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2023 20:14:24 +0300
> > From: "Dmitry Gutov" <dgutov@HIDDEN>
> > Cc: luangruo@HIDDEN, 61667 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, gregory@HIDDEN
> >
> > 'C-x p g' doesn't find any matches for this input? That's odd.
>
> Which external commands it is supposed to run?
External? 'git ls-files' followed by piping the list to 'grep'.
--7f922a7112ed48afa1ee280b7fc15f55
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<!DOCTYPE html><html><head><title></title><style type="text/css">p.MsoNormal,p.MsoNoSpacing{margin:0}</style></head><body><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>On Sun, Apr 16, 2023, at 8:26 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote:<br></div><blockquote type="cite" id="qt" style=""><div>> Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2023 20:14:24 +0300<br></div><div>> From: "Dmitry Gutov" <<a href="mailto:dgutov@HIDDEN">dgutov@HIDDEN</a>><br></div><div>> Cc: <a href="mailto:luangruo@HIDDEN">luangruo@HIDDEN</a>, <a href="mailto:61667 <at> debbugs.gnu.org">61667 <at> debbugs.gnu.org</a>, <a href="mailto:gregory@HIDDEN">gregory@HIDDEN</a><br></div><div>> <br></div><div>> 'C-x p g' doesn't find any matches for this input? That's odd.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Which external commands it is supposed to run?<br></div></blockquote><div>External? 'git ls-files' followed by piping the list to 'grep'.</div></body></html>
--7f922a7112ed48afa1ee280b7fc15f55--
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Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2023 20:46:39 +0300
From: "Dmitry Gutov" <dgutov@HIDDEN>
To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
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--16e0b517d84343aeb700e26df402cf87
Content-Type: text/plain
On Sun, Apr 16, 2023, at 7:27 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2023 16:08:26 +0300
> > Cc: luangruo@HIDDEN, 61667 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, gregory@HIDDEN
> > From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
> >
> > 1. 'emacs -Q', disable stuff.
> > 2. 'C-x p f', visit lisp/emacs-lisp/smie.el.
> > 3. Search for something rare using 'C-x p g' (e.g. for "Coq-specific",
> > but not necessarily).
> > 4. Press 'q' to exit the search.
> >
> > On step 3 or 4, the title bar will get updated noticeably faster than
> > the frame configuration changes.
>
> When you say "gets updated noticeably faster", what exactly do you
> mean? by how much time does the redraw of the windows lag after the
> title bar update?
Can be on the order of seconds or indefinitely, just like described before.
> It is normal for the frame's title to be updated first, because Emacs
> redraws it early during a redisplay cycle.
It's not usually noticeable with the naked eye.
> Only after that, the
> display engine examines all the windows and redraws whatever needs to
> be updated. So it could take some short time between the two, perhaps
> more if the redisplay of windows requires to redraw a lot. However,
> in your original message today you seemed to say that the windows are
> not updated unless you press something like C-n, and that should not
> happen. Did I misunderstand your original report?
No, you got it right.
--16e0b517d84343aeb700e26df402cf87
Content-Type: text/html
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE html><html><head><title></title><style type=3D"text/css">p.Mso=
Normal,p.MsoNoSpacing{margin:0}</style></head><body><div><br></div><div>=
<br></div><div>On Sun, Apr 16, 2023, at 7:27 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote:<br=
></div><blockquote type=3D"cite" id=3D"qt" style=3D""><div>> Date: Su=
n, 16 Apr 2023 16:08:26 +0300<br></div><div>> Cc: <a href=3D"mai=
lto:luangruo@HIDDEN">luangruo@HIDDEN</a>, <a href=3D"mailto:6=
1667 <at> debbugs.gnu.org">61667 <at> debbugs.gnu.org</a>, <a href=3D"mailto:=
gregory@HIDDEN">gregory@HIDDEN</a><br></div><div>> From: =
Dmitry Gutov <<a href=3D"mailto:dgutov@HIDDEN">dgutov@HIDDEN</a=
>><br></div><div>> <br></div><div>> 1. 'emacs -Q', disable=
stuff.<br></div><div>> 2. 'C-x p f', visit lisp/emacs-lisp/smie.el.<=
br></div><div>> 3. Search for something rare using 'C-x p g' (e.g. fo=
r "Coq-specific", <br></div><div>> but not necessarily).<br></di=
v><div>> 4. Press 'q' to exit the search.<br></div><div>> <br=
></div><div>> On step 3 or 4, the title bar will get updated noticeab=
ly faster than <br></div><div>> the frame configuration changes.=
<br></div><div><br></div><div>When you say "gets updated noticeably fast=
er", what exactly do you<br></div><div>mean? by how much time does the r=
edraw of the windows lag after the<br></div><div>title bar update?<br></=
div></blockquote><div>Can be on the order of seconds or indefinitely, ju=
st like described before.</div><blockquote type=3D"cite" id=3D"qt" style=
=3D""><div>It is normal for the frame's title to be updated first, becau=
se Emacs<br></div><div>redraws it early during a redisplay cycle. <=
br></div></blockquote><div>It's not usually noticeable with the naked ey=
e.</div><blockquote type=3D"cite" id=3D"qt" style=3D""><div> Only after =
that, the<br></div><div>display engine examines all the windows and redr=
aws whatever needs to<br></div><div>be updated. So it could take s=
ome short time between the two, perhaps<br></div><div>more if the redisp=
lay of windows requires to redraw a lot. However,<br></div><div>in=
your original message today you seemed to say that the windows are<br><=
/div><div>not updated unless you press something like C-n, and that shou=
ld not<br></div><div>happen. Did I misunderstand your original rep=
ort?<br></div></blockquote><div>No, you got it right.</div><div><br></di=
v></body></html>
--16e0b517d84343aeb700e26df402cf87--
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From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
To: "Dmitry Gutov" <dgutov@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <1f68a588-8db1-40e6-8f62-f5032a759725@HIDDEN>
(dgutov@HIDDEN)
Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
<7fee18a7-3307-b6de-1428-ae17d51c85af@HIDDEN>
<9ac9271f1ee55a9b8bbf@HIDDEN> <87a60y13ou.fsf@HIDDEN>
<674e150e-fcbe-7d67-962e-214cfaec2ca0@HIDDEN>
<875ybl1dii.fsf@HIDDEN>
<2b249c97-db63-34e1-80c2-0c898005e31f@HIDDEN>
<87zg8xyt0m.fsf@HIDDEN>
<25c817d9-f969-8c24-6ed4-9b35fd6f27ad@HIDDEN>
<87sfeozn8f.fsf@HIDDEN>
<ba5a637e-70ee-3d89-8c0a-7e04fb987c6b@HIDDEN>
<87o7pczlsq.fsf@HIDDEN>
<43d50d6a-1eb0-cd42-0479-3f9d4d74904a@HIDDEN>
<87ilfkyorf.fsf@HIDDEN>
<8f4df0d7-eb1a-379a-db03-314f2c93743b@HIDDEN>
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> Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2023 20:14:24 +0300
> From: "Dmitry Gutov" <dgutov@HIDDEN>
> Cc: luangruo@HIDDEN, 61667 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, gregory@HIDDEN
>
> 'C-x p g' doesn't find any matches for this input? That's odd.
Which external commands it is supposed to run?
Information forwarded
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bug#61667; Package emacs.
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<834jpfby3t.fsf@HIDDEN>
Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2023 20:14:24 +0300
From: "Dmitry Gutov" <dgutov@HIDDEN>
To: "Eli Zaretskii" <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
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On Sun, Apr 16, 2023, at 7:17 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2023 16:08:26 +0300
> > Cc: luangruo@HIDDEN, 61667 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, gregory@HIDDEN
> > From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
> >
> > 1. 'emacs -Q', disable stuff.
> > 2. 'C-x p f', visit lisp/emacs-lisp/smie.el.
> > 3. Search for something rare using 'C-x p g' (e.g. for "Coq-specific",
> > but not necessarily).
> > 4. Press 'q' to exit the search.
>
> There's something missing in these steps, or maybe you assume some
> setup that I don't have here. For step 2, what do you mean by
> "lisp/emacs-lisp/smie.el"? "C-x p f" prompts for input, what do I
> type at the prompt?
You use 'C-x p f' to visit smie.el, sp type either its base or the full relative name. It's probably not important how you visit it, might as well use 'C-x C-f' instead.
> Step 3 yields "no matches" here, although I
> definitely see "Coq-specific" in smie.el, so what gives?
'C-x p g' doesn't find any matches for this input? That's odd.
--d928ef95e4e644b6bc6724c0d6aebfcb
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<br></div><div>On Sun, Apr 16, 2023, at 7:17 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote:<br=
></div><blockquote type=3D"cite" id=3D"qt" style=3D""><div>> Date: Su=
n, 16 Apr 2023 16:08:26 +0300<br></div><div>> Cc: <a href=3D"mai=
lto:luangruo@HIDDEN">luangruo@HIDDEN</a>, <a href=3D"mailto:6=
1667 <at> debbugs.gnu.org">61667 <at> debbugs.gnu.org</a>, <a href=3D"mailto:=
gregory@HIDDEN">gregory@HIDDEN</a><br></div><div>> From: =
Dmitry Gutov <<a href=3D"mailto:dgutov@HIDDEN" class=3D"">dgutov@y=
andex.ru</a>><br></div><div>> <br></div><div>> 1. 'emacs -=
Q', disable stuff.<br></div><div>> 2. 'C-x p f', visit lisp/emacs-lis=
p/smie.el.<br></div><div>> 3. Search for something rare using 'C-x p =
g' (e.g. for "Coq-specific", <br></div><div>> but not necessaril=
y).<br></div><div>> 4. Press 'q' to exit the search.<br></div><div><b=
r></div><div>There's something missing in these steps, or maybe you assu=
me some<br></div><div>setup that I don't have here. For step 2, wh=
at do you mean by<br></div><div>"lisp/emacs-lisp/smie.el"? "C-x p =
f" prompts for input, what do I<br></div><div>type at the prompt?<br></d=
iv></blockquote><div>You use 'C-x p f' to visit smie.el, sp type either =
its base or the full relative name. It's probably not important how you =
visit it, might as well use 'C-x C-f' instead.</div><blockquote type=3D"=
cite" id=3D"qt" style=3D""><div> Step 3 yields "no matches" here, althou=
gh I<br></div><div>definitely see "Coq-specific" in smie.el, so what giv=
es?<br></div></blockquote><div>'C-x p g' doesn't find any matches for th=
is input? That's odd.</div></body></html>
--d928ef95e4e644b6bc6724c0d6aebfcb--
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bug#61667; Package emacs.
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Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
<7fee18a7-3307-b6de-1428-ae17d51c85af@HIDDEN>
<9ac9271f1ee55a9b8bbf@HIDDEN> <87a60y13ou.fsf@HIDDEN>
<674e150e-fcbe-7d67-962e-214cfaec2ca0@HIDDEN>
<875ybl1dii.fsf@HIDDEN>
<2b249c97-db63-34e1-80c2-0c898005e31f@HIDDEN>
<87zg8xyt0m.fsf@HIDDEN>
<25c817d9-f969-8c24-6ed4-9b35fd6f27ad@HIDDEN>
<87sfeozn8f.fsf@HIDDEN>
<ba5a637e-70ee-3d89-8c0a-7e04fb987c6b@HIDDEN>
<87o7pczlsq.fsf@HIDDEN>
<43d50d6a-1eb0-cd42-0479-3f9d4d74904a@HIDDEN>
<87ilfkyorf.fsf@HIDDEN>
<8f4df0d7-eb1a-379a-db03-314f2c93743b@HIDDEN>
<87a60vztad.fsf@HIDDEN> <14405ac4f8f101c35628@HIDDEN>
<60c92936-2a75-a254-145a-6a0a1656a645@HIDDEN>
<8eda4f1e-233e-4963-1b1d-75945eca01d4@HIDDEN>
<874jr2y7qk.fsf@HIDDEN>
<e76bdf9c-7fd9-a3b8-aa0b-526881a403e8@HIDDEN>
<66e8b8a4-fa14-800e-659c-d8db1134d71a@HIDDEN>
<83r0skbc20.fsf@HIDDEN>
<23d8f88d-c694-faa0-93f6-1a282443b27d@HIDDEN>
<83cz44asoz.fsf@HIDDEN> <7d0c9615-a5ae-651d-dab5-ba767454b7bf@HIDDEN>
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> Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2023 16:08:26 +0300
> Cc: luangruo@HIDDEN, 61667 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, gregory@HIDDEN
> From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
>
> 1. 'emacs -Q', disable stuff.
> 2. 'C-x p f', visit lisp/emacs-lisp/smie.el.
> 3. Search for something rare using 'C-x p g' (e.g. for "Coq-specific",
> but not necessarily).
> 4. Press 'q' to exit the search.
>
> On step 3 or 4, the title bar will get updated noticeably faster than
> the frame configuration changes.
When you say "gets updated noticeably faster", what exactly do you
mean? by how much time does the redraw of the windows lag after the
title bar update?
It is normal for the frame's title to be updated first, because Emacs
redraws it early during a redisplay cycle. Only after that, the
display engine examines all the windows and redraws whatever needs to
be updated. So it could take some short time between the two, perhaps
more if the redisplay of windows requires to redraw a lot. However,
in your original message today you seemed to say that the windows are
not updated unless you press something like C-n, and that should not
happen. Did I misunderstand your original report?
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
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From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
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In-Reply-To: <7d0c9615-a5ae-651d-dab5-ba767454b7bf@HIDDEN> (message from
Dmitry Gutov on Sun, 16 Apr 2023 16:08:26 +0300)
Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
<7fee18a7-3307-b6de-1428-ae17d51c85af@HIDDEN>
<9ac9271f1ee55a9b8bbf@HIDDEN> <87a60y13ou.fsf@HIDDEN>
<674e150e-fcbe-7d67-962e-214cfaec2ca0@HIDDEN>
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<87zg8xyt0m.fsf@HIDDEN>
<25c817d9-f969-8c24-6ed4-9b35fd6f27ad@HIDDEN>
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<ba5a637e-70ee-3d89-8c0a-7e04fb987c6b@HIDDEN>
<87o7pczlsq.fsf@HIDDEN>
<43d50d6a-1eb0-cd42-0479-3f9d4d74904a@HIDDEN>
<87ilfkyorf.fsf@HIDDEN>
<8f4df0d7-eb1a-379a-db03-314f2c93743b@HIDDEN>
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<83r0skbc20.fsf@HIDDEN>
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> Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2023 16:08:26 +0300
> Cc: luangruo@HIDDEN, 61667 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, gregory@HIDDEN
> From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
>
> 1. 'emacs -Q', disable stuff.
> 2. 'C-x p f', visit lisp/emacs-lisp/smie.el.
> 3. Search for something rare using 'C-x p g' (e.g. for "Coq-specific",
> but not necessarily).
> 4. Press 'q' to exit the search.
There's something missing in these steps, or maybe you assume some
setup that I don't have here. For step 2, what do you mean by
"lisp/emacs-lisp/smie.el"? "C-x p f" prompts for input, what do I
type at the prompt? Step 3 yields "no matches" here, although I
definitely see "Coq-specific" in smie.el, so what gives?
Information forwarded
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bug#61667; Package emacs.
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Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
Content-Language: en-US
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
<7fee18a7-3307-b6de-1428-ae17d51c85af@HIDDEN>
<9ac9271f1ee55a9b8bbf@HIDDEN> <87a60y13ou.fsf@HIDDEN>
<674e150e-fcbe-7d67-962e-214cfaec2ca0@HIDDEN>
<875ybl1dii.fsf@HIDDEN>
<2b249c97-db63-34e1-80c2-0c898005e31f@HIDDEN>
<87zg8xyt0m.fsf@HIDDEN>
<25c817d9-f969-8c24-6ed4-9b35fd6f27ad@HIDDEN>
<87sfeozn8f.fsf@HIDDEN>
<ba5a637e-70ee-3d89-8c0a-7e04fb987c6b@HIDDEN>
<87o7pczlsq.fsf@HIDDEN>
<43d50d6a-1eb0-cd42-0479-3f9d4d74904a@HIDDEN>
<87ilfkyorf.fsf@HIDDEN>
<8f4df0d7-eb1a-379a-db03-314f2c93743b@HIDDEN>
<87a60vztad.fsf@HIDDEN> <14405ac4f8f101c35628@HIDDEN>
<60c92936-2a75-a254-145a-6a0a1656a645@HIDDEN>
<8eda4f1e-233e-4963-1b1d-75945eca01d4@HIDDEN>
<874jr2y7qk.fsf@HIDDEN>
<e76bdf9c-7fd9-a3b8-aa0b-526881a403e8@HIDDEN>
<66e8b8a4-fa14-800e-659c-d8db1134d71a@HIDDEN>
<83r0skbc20.fsf@HIDDEN>
<23d8f88d-c694-faa0-93f6-1a282443b27d@HIDDEN>
<83cz44asoz.fsf@HIDDEN>
From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
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On 16/04/2023 15:59, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2023 15:52:51 +0300
>> Cc:luangruo@HIDDEN,61667 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,gregory@HIDDEN
>> From: Dmitry Gutov<dgutov@HIDDEN>
>>
>> On 16/04/2023 09:01, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>>>> Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2023 03:48:56 +0300
>>>> From: Dmitry Gutov<dgutov@HIDDEN>
>>>> Cc: Gregory Heytings<gregory@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii<eliz@HIDDEN>,
>>>> Po Lu<luangruo@HIDDEN>
>>>>
>>>> - Do some search using 'C-x p g', wait to see the results buffer
>>>> displayed but it's not displayed for a while. I look at the title bar -
>>>> and it already says*xref*, but the frame is still not updated. If I
>>>> press something like 'C-n' or 'C-f' now, that triggers the necessary
>>>> refresh.
>>>>
>>>> - When the said Xref buffers is selected, I press 'q'. Likewise, the
>>>> frame might not get updated for a while, still showing the previous
>>>> window configuration until I issue the next command.
>>>>
>>>> These are of course random and don't happen every time. Often enough to
>>>> be annoying, though.
>>> Is this with or without double-buffering? If it's with
>>> double-buffering, do the problems go away if you disable
>>> double-buffering?
>> Good question: the above failure scenario reproduces even without XDBE.
>> The frequency is about the same as with XDBE.
> Thanks. Next question: does it reproduce easily in "emacs -Q"?
It does. As soon as I disable scroll-bar-mode, menu-bar-mode,
tool-bar-mode and blink-cursor-mode.
It goes like this:
1. 'emacs -Q', disable stuff.
2. 'C-x p f', visit lisp/emacs-lisp/smie.el.
3. Search for something rare using 'C-x p g' (e.g. for "Coq-specific",
but not necessarily).
4. Press 'q' to exit the search.
On step 3 or 4, the title bar will get updated noticeably faster than
the frame configuration changes.
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
Full text available.
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From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
To: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <23d8f88d-c694-faa0-93f6-1a282443b27d@HIDDEN> (message from
Dmitry Gutov on Sun, 16 Apr 2023 15:52:51 +0300)
Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
<8716b41c97839d6a8b87@HIDDEN>
<ef348a4a-a231-9070-19e0-92d0310947bf@HIDDEN>
<7fee18a7-3307-b6de-1428-ae17d51c85af@HIDDEN>
<9ac9271f1ee55a9b8bbf@HIDDEN> <87a60y13ou.fsf@HIDDEN>
<674e150e-fcbe-7d67-962e-214cfaec2ca0@HIDDEN>
<875ybl1dii.fsf@HIDDEN>
<2b249c97-db63-34e1-80c2-0c898005e31f@HIDDEN>
<87zg8xyt0m.fsf@HIDDEN>
<25c817d9-f969-8c24-6ed4-9b35fd6f27ad@HIDDEN>
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<ba5a637e-70ee-3d89-8c0a-7e04fb987c6b@HIDDEN>
<87o7pczlsq.fsf@HIDDEN>
<43d50d6a-1eb0-cd42-0479-3f9d4d74904a@HIDDEN>
<87ilfkyorf.fsf@HIDDEN>
<8f4df0d7-eb1a-379a-db03-314f2c93743b@HIDDEN>
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<e76bdf9c-7fd9-a3b8-aa0b-526881a403e8@HIDDEN>
<66e8b8a4-fa14-800e-659c-d8db1134d71a@HIDDEN>
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> Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2023 15:52:51 +0300
> Cc: luangruo@HIDDEN, 61667 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, gregory@HIDDEN
> From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
>
> On 16/04/2023 09:01, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> >> Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2023 03:48:56 +0300
> >> From: Dmitry Gutov<dgutov@HIDDEN>
> >> Cc: Gregory Heytings<gregory@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii<eliz@HIDDEN>,
> >> Po Lu<luangruo@HIDDEN>
> >>
> >> - Do some search using 'C-x p g', wait to see the results buffer
> >> displayed but it's not displayed for a while. I look at the title bar -
> >> and it already says*xref*, but the frame is still not updated. If I
> >> press something like 'C-n' or 'C-f' now, that triggers the necessary
> >> refresh.
> >>
> >> - When the said Xref buffers is selected, I press 'q'. Likewise, the
> >> frame might not get updated for a while, still showing the previous
> >> window configuration until I issue the next command.
> >>
> >> These are of course random and don't happen every time. Often enough to
> >> be annoying, though.
> > Is this with or without double-buffering? If it's with
> > double-buffering, do the problems go away if you disable
> > double-buffering?
>
> Good question: the above failure scenario reproduces even without XDBE.
> The frequency is about the same as with XDBE.
Thanks. Next question: does it reproduce easily in "emacs -Q"?
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
Full text available.
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Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
Content-Language: en-US
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
<8716b41c97839d6a8b87@HIDDEN>
<ef348a4a-a231-9070-19e0-92d0310947bf@HIDDEN>
<7fee18a7-3307-b6de-1428-ae17d51c85af@HIDDEN>
<9ac9271f1ee55a9b8bbf@HIDDEN> <87a60y13ou.fsf@HIDDEN>
<674e150e-fcbe-7d67-962e-214cfaec2ca0@HIDDEN>
<875ybl1dii.fsf@HIDDEN>
<2b249c97-db63-34e1-80c2-0c898005e31f@HIDDEN>
<87zg8xyt0m.fsf@HIDDEN>
<25c817d9-f969-8c24-6ed4-9b35fd6f27ad@HIDDEN>
<87sfeozn8f.fsf@HIDDEN>
<ba5a637e-70ee-3d89-8c0a-7e04fb987c6b@HIDDEN>
<87o7pczlsq.fsf@HIDDEN>
<43d50d6a-1eb0-cd42-0479-3f9d4d74904a@HIDDEN>
<87ilfkyorf.fsf@HIDDEN>
<8f4df0d7-eb1a-379a-db03-314f2c93743b@HIDDEN>
<87a60vztad.fsf@HIDDEN> <14405ac4f8f101c35628@HIDDEN>
<60c92936-2a75-a254-145a-6a0a1656a645@HIDDEN>
<8eda4f1e-233e-4963-1b1d-75945eca01d4@HIDDEN>
<874jr2y7qk.fsf@HIDDEN>
<e76bdf9c-7fd9-a3b8-aa0b-526881a403e8@HIDDEN>
<66e8b8a4-fa14-800e-659c-d8db1134d71a@HIDDEN>
<83r0skbc20.fsf@HIDDEN>
From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
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On 16/04/2023 09:01, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2023 03:48:56 +0300
>> From: Dmitry Gutov<dgutov@HIDDEN>
>> Cc: Gregory Heytings<gregory@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii<eliz@HIDDEN>,
>> Po Lu<luangruo@HIDDEN>
>>
>> - Do some search using 'C-x p g', wait to see the results buffer
>> displayed but it's not displayed for a while. I look at the title bar -
>> and it already says*xref*, but the frame is still not updated. If I
>> press something like 'C-n' or 'C-f' now, that triggers the necessary
>> refresh.
>>
>> - When the said Xref buffers is selected, I press 'q'. Likewise, the
>> frame might not get updated for a while, still showing the previous
>> window configuration until I issue the next command.
>>
>> These are of course random and don't happen every time. Often enough to
>> be annoying, though.
> Is this with or without double-buffering? If it's with
> double-buffering, do the problems go away if you disable
> double-buffering?
Good question: the above failure scenario reproduces even without XDBE.
The frequency is about the same as with XDBE.
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
Full text available.
Message received at 61667 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:
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To: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
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Dmitry Gutov on Sun, 16 Apr 2023 03:48:56 +0300)
Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
<8716b41c97839d6a8b87@HIDDEN>
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<25c817d9-f969-8c24-6ed4-9b35fd6f27ad@HIDDEN> <87sfeozn8f.fsf@HIDDEN>
<ba5a637e-70ee-3d89-8c0a-7e04fb987c6b@HIDDEN> <87o7pczlsq.fsf@HIDDEN>
<43d50d6a-1eb0-cd42-0479-3f9d4d74904a@HIDDEN> <87ilfkyorf.fsf@HIDDEN>
<8f4df0d7-eb1a-379a-db03-314f2c93743b@HIDDEN> <87a60vztad.fsf@HIDDEN>
<14405ac4f8f101c35628@HIDDEN>
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<e76bdf9c-7fd9-a3b8-aa0b-526881a403e8@HIDDEN>
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> Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2023 03:48:56 +0300
> From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
> Cc: Gregory Heytings <gregory@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>,
> Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>
>
> - Do some search using 'C-x p g', wait to see the results buffer
> displayed but it's not displayed for a while. I look at the title bar -
> and it already says *xref*, but the frame is still not updated. If I
> press something like 'C-n' or 'C-f' now, that triggers the necessary
> refresh.
>
> - When the said Xref buffers is selected, I press 'q'. Likewise, the
> frame might not get updated for a while, still showing the previous
> window configuration until I issue the next command.
>
> These are of course random and don't happen every time. Often enough to
> be annoying, though.
Is this with or without double-buffering? If it's with
double-buffering, do the problems go away if you disable
double-buffering?
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
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Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
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From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
To: 61667 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
<8716b41c97839d6a8b87@HIDDEN>
<ef348a4a-a231-9070-19e0-92d0310947bf@HIDDEN>
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On 03/03/2023 15:44, Dmitry Gutov wrote:
> I've also tried to reproduce the error with a Lucid build of Emacs 29
> under GNOME -- never hit the problem once.
Life update: I've tried switching to a Lucid build for regular work.
While the test scenarios that I've shown so far fail to reproduce with
it, I'm seeing very similar problems. Examples:
- Do some search using 'C-x p g', wait to see the results buffer
displayed but it's not displayed for a while. I look at the title bar -
and it already says *xref*, but the frame is still not updated. If I
press something like 'C-n' or 'C-f' now, that triggers the necessary
refresh.
- When the said Xref buffers is selected, I press 'q'. Likewise, the
frame might not get updated for a while, still showing the previous
window configuration until I issue the next command.
These are of course random and don't happen every time. Often enough to
be annoying, though.
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
Full text available.
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Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
Content-Language: en-US
From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
To: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>
References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
<f31ae245-9792-f7ef-6475-e082abf97257@HIDDEN>
<8716b41c97839d6a8b87@HIDDEN>
<ef348a4a-a231-9070-19e0-92d0310947bf@HIDDEN>
<7fee18a7-3307-b6de-1428-ae17d51c85af@HIDDEN>
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On 04/03/2023 14:45, Dmitry Gutov wrote:
> On 04/03/2023 02:22, Dmitry Gutov wrote:
>> On 04/03/2023 02:01, Po Lu wrote:
>>>> But there is a persistent glitch: when the window configuration
>>>> changes, 1 or 2 vertical bars often flash:
>>>>
>>>> https://a.uguu.se/iYTlOftH.mp4Â (with emacs -Q)
>>>>
>>>> https://a.uguu.se/YdDWpMid.mp4Â (with my config but with tool-bar and
>>>> scroll-bar modes enabled)
>>>>
>>>> scroll-bar-mode on seems to be required to reproduce this.
>>> This is expected: moving the scroll bar causes exposures, which can
>>> cause flickering. That's the problem double buffering is supposed to
>>> fix.
>>
>> Isn't it odd, though, that in both cases the glitch is positioned
>> around 1/2 of the scroll-bar's horizontal coordinate (relative to the
>> left edge of the frame)? When there is one scroll-bar, there is one
>> glitch; when there are two scroll-bars, there are two glitches.
>>
>> My guess is that might be related to the display scale (2x).
>
> And indeed: when I change the display scaling to 1x (no scaling), the
> "flashes" occur exactly above the scrollbars. Which looks significantly
> less jarring.
>
> This seems like something we should be able to fix, if we're going to
> recommend disabling double-buffering as a fix for this and other problems.
If anybody has ideas how to avoid scrollbars being briefly drawn at the
wrong position with 2x display and disabled xdbe, that could be an
improvement as well.
If not for me, then for the next GNOME user advised to disable double
buffering.
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
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Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
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To: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>
References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
<674e150e-fcbe-7d67-962e-214cfaec2ca0@HIDDEN> <875ybl1dii.fsf@HIDDEN>
<2b249c97-db63-34e1-80c2-0c898005e31f@HIDDEN> <87zg8xyt0m.fsf@HIDDEN>
<25c817d9-f969-8c24-6ed4-9b35fd6f27ad@HIDDEN> <87sfeozn8f.fsf@HIDDEN>
<ba5a637e-70ee-3d89-8c0a-7e04fb987c6b@HIDDEN> <87o7pczlsq.fsf@HIDDEN>
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<d9fb9209-46b9-8e5d-44cf-04ec188319ef@HIDDEN> <87o7oy9n7h.fsf@HIDDEN>
From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
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On 12/03/2023 14:19, Po Lu via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army
knife of text editors wrote:
> Dmitry Gutov<dgutov@HIDDEN> writes:
>
>> Thanks. When trying to run a separate Xorg, at first it failed with no
>> access to some tty, and then (with sudo) brought down my existing
>> Xorg. 😂
>>
>> But when I rebooted, Xfce suddenly started working without extra help.
>>
>> I've tried several dozens of times and couldn't reproduce the problem
>> in it. All I can add about that is two things:
>>
>> 1. It has some broken handling of scaling. When set to 1, most things
>> (but not all, e.g. not the titlebar buttons, I think) have the same
>> size as I have in GNOME at 2x scaling. And when I set scaling to 2,
>> everything becomes tiny.
>>
>> 2. Emacs starts up faster than under WindowMaker or E, but still a
>> little slower than under GNOME. The startup looks a little different,
>> too: if you have some of my older videos saved, you can see it
>> blinking with the scrollbar. Under Xfce, OTOH, I can't see that
>> blinking, and overall the startup looks something like additionally
>> buffered: less jittery, but a tiny bit slower as a result.
> Different window managers behave differently upon first managing a
> window, so I'm not too surprised by these differences.
>
> I'm out of ideas here, but everything so far points at this being a
> GNOME bug. Which I can't reproduce, likely due to the difference in
> display and graphics hardware between my system and yours.
>
>> Whatever the reasons is, it could affect later frame flipping as well.
> I doubt this, since by the time the initial window configuration
> finishes, Emacs should be in the same state under any window manager.
>
> I'm sorry I couldn't help.
All right, thanks for trying.
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
Full text available.
Message received at 61667 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:
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From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>
To: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
In-Reply-To: <d9fb9209-46b9-8e5d-44cf-04ec188319ef@HIDDEN> (Dmitry Gutov's
message of "Sun, 12 Mar 2023 14:15:14 +0200")
References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
<674e150e-fcbe-7d67-962e-214cfaec2ca0@HIDDEN>
<875ybl1dii.fsf@HIDDEN>
<2b249c97-db63-34e1-80c2-0c898005e31f@HIDDEN>
<87zg8xyt0m.fsf@HIDDEN>
<25c817d9-f969-8c24-6ed4-9b35fd6f27ad@HIDDEN>
<87sfeozn8f.fsf@HIDDEN>
<ba5a637e-70ee-3d89-8c0a-7e04fb987c6b@HIDDEN>
<87o7pczlsq.fsf@HIDDEN>
<43d50d6a-1eb0-cd42-0479-3f9d4d74904a@HIDDEN>
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<8f4df0d7-eb1a-379a-db03-314f2c93743b@HIDDEN>
<87a60vztad.fsf@HIDDEN> <14405ac4f8f101c35628@HIDDEN>
<60c92936-2a75-a254-145a-6a0a1656a645@HIDDEN>
<8eda4f1e-233e-4963-1b1d-75945eca01d4@HIDDEN>
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<e76bdf9c-7fd9-a3b8-aa0b-526881a403e8@HIDDEN>
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Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2023 20:19:14 +0800
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Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN> writes:
> Thanks. When trying to run a separate Xorg, at first it failed with no
> access to some tty, and then (with sudo) brought down my existing
> Xorg. :-D
>
> But when I rebooted, Xfce suddenly started working without extra help.
>
> I've tried several dozens of times and couldn't reproduce the problem
> in it. All I can add about that is two things:
>
> 1. It has some broken handling of scaling. When set to 1, most things
> (but not all, e.g. not the titlebar buttons, I think) have the same
> size as I have in GNOME at 2x scaling. And when I set scaling to 2,
> everything becomes tiny.
>
> 2. Emacs starts up faster than under WindowMaker or E, but still a
> little slower than under GNOME. The startup looks a little different,
> too: if you have some of my older videos saved, you can see it
> blinking with the scrollbar. Under Xfce, OTOH, I can't see that
> blinking, and overall the startup looks something like additionally
> buffered: less jittery, but a tiny bit slower as a result.
Different window managers behave differently upon first managing a
window, so I'm not too surprised by these differences.
I'm out of ideas here, but everything so far points at this being a
GNOME bug. Which I can't reproduce, likely due to the difference in
display and graphics hardware between my system and yours.
> Whatever the reasons is, it could affect later frame flipping as well.
I doubt this, since by the time the initial window configuration
finishes, Emacs should be in the same state under any window manager.
I'm sorry I couldn't help.
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
Full text available.
Message received at 61667 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:
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Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2023 14:15:14 +0200
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Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
To: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>
References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
<9ac9271f1ee55a9b8bbf@HIDDEN> <87a60y13ou.fsf@HIDDEN>
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From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
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Cc: 61667 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Gregory Heytings <gregory@HIDDEN>,
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On 12/03/2023 04:43, Po Lu wrote:
> Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN> writes:
>
>>> Tried again with WindowMaker, couldn't reproduce there still. It's
>>> still working kind of sluggishly, though. Also tried installing
>>> Xfce4, but there seems to be some integration problem: it's not
>>> possible to log into it from GDM (journalctl shows some errors about
>>> it trying to launch its own session manager and failing because of
>>> GDM already running).
>>> I've also tried to reproduce the error with a Lucid build of Emacs
>>> 29 under GNOME -- never hit the problem once.
>
> Yes, it did vanish into the infinite black hole that is this email
> provider's automatic filtering.
>
> Xfwm can be run by hand with its compositor enabled. Perhaps if you
> start:
>
> Xorg :1
>
> then run:
>
> xfwm4 -c --display :1, you will have better luck.
Thanks. When trying to run a separate Xorg, at first it failed with no
access to some tty, and then (with sudo) brought down my existing Xorg. :-D
But when I rebooted, Xfce suddenly started working without extra help.
I've tried several dozens of times and couldn't reproduce the problem in
it. All I can add about that is two things:
1. It has some broken handling of scaling. When set to 1, most things
(but not all, e.g. not the titlebar buttons, I think) have the same size
as I have in GNOME at 2x scaling. And when I set scaling to 2,
everything becomes tiny.
2. Emacs starts up faster than under WindowMaker or E, but still a
little slower than under GNOME. The startup looks a little different,
too: if you have some of my older videos saved, you can see it blinking
with the scrollbar. Under Xfce, OTOH, I can't see that blinking, and
overall the startup looks something like additionally buffered: less
jittery, but a tiny bit slower as a result. Whatever the reasons is, it
could affect later frame flipping as well.
https://a.uguu.se/jzgYlBHd.mp4
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
Full text available.
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From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>
To: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
In-Reply-To: <ebeec9d3-c59e-9d90-314d-96a1ce3fb234@HIDDEN> (Dmitry Gutov's
message of "Sun, 12 Mar 2023 04:27:53 +0200")
References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
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Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2023 10:43:04 +0800
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Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN> writes:
>> Tried again with WindowMaker, couldn't reproduce there still. It's
>> still working kind of sluggishly, though. Also tried installing
>> Xfce4, but there seems to be some integration problem: it's not
>> possible to log into it from GDM (journalctl shows some errors about
>> it trying to launch its own session manager and failing because of
>> GDM already running).
>> I've also tried to reproduce the error with a Lucid build of Emacs
>> 29 under GNOME -- never hit the problem once.
Yes, it did vanish into the infinite black hole that is this email
provider's automatic filtering.
Xfwm can be run by hand with its compositor enabled. Perhaps if you
start:
Xorg :1
then run:
xfwm4 -c --display :1, you will have better luck.
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
Full text available.
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Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
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From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
To: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>
References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
<8716b41c97839d6a8b87@HIDDEN>
<ef348a4a-a231-9070-19e0-92d0310947bf@HIDDEN>
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Hi Po,
Just wanted to make sure you got this email, and that it didn't get
"hidden" by the next one.
If you have any further ideas for debugging, I'm happy to do that.
Reproducing it can still be a pain, e.g. this time around I spend a
couple of minutes wondering whether a recent update to Xorg fixed
everything, but then it started appearing again, with same regularity.
On 03/03/2023 15:44, Dmitry Gutov wrote:
> On 03/03/2023 02:54, Po Lu wrote:
>
>>> So I went back to the previous Emacs versions.
>>>
>>> This MRE:
>>>
>>> Â Â src/emacs -Q --eval "(tool-bar-mode -1)" --eval "(menu-bar-mode -1)"
>>> Â Â --eval "(scroll-bar-mode -1)" --eval "(global-set-key \"a\" (lambda
>>> Â Â () (interactive) (insert \"!\") (redisplay) (find-file
>>> Â Â \"xassociations.rb\") ))" --eval "(add-hook 'find-file-hook
>>> Â Â #'redisplay t)" --eval "(blink-cursor-mode -1 )" --eval "(setq
>>> Â Â frame-title-format \"aaa\")"
>>>
>>> Â Â Press 'a'. See if the buffer is displayed after a delay.
>>
>> Could you send me xassociations.rb? I can't reproduce this with any
>> file of my own.
>
> Attached, though this doesn't seem to depend on the exact file. E.g., I
> reproduced this bug (indefinitely delayed refresh) just today with
> src/alloc.c a few times.
>
>>> --eval "(modify-frame-parameters nil '((undecorated . t)))", OTOH, we
>>> Â Â can also cross out from the list of fixes: the problem still happens
>>> Â Â with it, though seemingly less often (first repro at the 15th try).
>>
>> OK, thanks. Damned blink-cursor-mode! Does the frame still refresh
>> when you hover over the title bar buttons?
>
> If there is a title bar, and there are buttons, yes, always.
>
> Also, sometimes the frame refreshes right away as soon as I move the
> mouse over its border. Sometimes, however, I can move the mouse over it
> for a while, and refresh happens only when hovering over the title bar
> buttons. Or over the mode-line. Or pressing some button on the keyboard,
> of course.
>
>> Also, since we now know blink-cursor-mode was previously screwing with
>> the results, would you please try some other window manager again and
>> see if the problem reproduces without GNOME?
>
> Tried again with WindowMaker, couldn't reproduce there still. It's still
> working kind of sluggishly, though. Also tried installing Xfce4, but
> there seems to be some integration problem: it's not possible to log
> into it from GDM (journalctl shows some errors about it trying to launch
> its own session manager and failing because of GDM already running).
>
> I've also tried to reproduce the error with a Lucid build of Emacs 29
> under GNOME -- never hit the problem once.
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
Full text available.
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Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
To: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>
References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
<f31ae245-9792-f7ef-6475-e082abf97257@HIDDEN>
<8716b41c97839d6a8b87@HIDDEN>
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On 04/03/2023 02:22, Dmitry Gutov wrote:
> On 04/03/2023 02:01, Po Lu wrote:
>>> But there is a persistent glitch: when the window configuration
>>> changes, 1 or 2 vertical bars often flash:
>>>
>>> https://a.uguu.se/iYTlOftH.mp4Â (with emacs -Q)
>>>
>>> https://a.uguu.se/YdDWpMid.mp4Â (with my config but with tool-bar and
>>> scroll-bar modes enabled)
>>>
>>> scroll-bar-mode on seems to be required to reproduce this.
>> This is expected: moving the scroll bar causes exposures, which can
>> cause flickering. That's the problem double buffering is supposed to
>> fix.
>
> Isn't it odd, though, that in both cases the glitch is positioned around
> 1/2 of the scroll-bar's horizontal coordinate (relative to the left edge
> of the frame)? When there is one scroll-bar, there is one glitch; when
> there are two scroll-bars, there are two glitches.
>
> My guess is that might be related to the display scale (2x).
And indeed: when I change the display scaling to 1x (no scaling), the
"flashes" occur exactly above the scrollbars. Which looks significantly
less jarring.
This seems like something we should be able to fix, if we're going to
recommend disabling double-buffering as a fix for this and other problems.
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
Full text available.
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Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2023 02:22:52 +0200
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Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
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To: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>
References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
<f31ae245-9792-f7ef-6475-e082abf97257@HIDDEN>
<8716b41c97839d6a8b87@HIDDEN>
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From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
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On 04/03/2023 02:01, Po Lu wrote:
>> But there is a persistent glitch: when the window configuration
>> changes, 1 or 2 vertical bars often flash:
>>
>> https://a.uguu.se/iYTlOftH.mp4 (with emacs -Q)
>>
>> https://a.uguu.se/YdDWpMid.mp4 (with my config but with tool-bar and
>> scroll-bar modes enabled)
>>
>> scroll-bar-mode on seems to be required to reproduce this.
> This is expected: moving the scroll bar causes exposures, which can
> cause flickering. That's the problem double buffering is supposed to
> fix.
Isn't it odd, though, that in both cases the glitch is positioned around
1/2 of the scroll-bar's horizontal coordinate (relative to the left edge
of the frame)? When there is one scroll-bar, there is one glitch; when
there are two scroll-bars, there are two glitches.
My guess is that might be related to the display scale (2x).
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
Full text available.
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From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>
To: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
In-Reply-To: <721a1bb0-c1c6-70a1-02a8-408445e19fde@HIDDEN> (Dmitry Gutov's
message of "Fri, 3 Mar 2023 16:28:14 +0200")
References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
<f31ae245-9792-f7ef-6475-e082abf97257@HIDDEN>
<8716b41c97839d6a8b87@HIDDEN>
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Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN> writes:
> On 02/03/2023 09:11, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>>> From: Po Lu<luangruo@HIDDEN>
>>> Cc:61667 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Gregory Heytings<gregory@HIDDEN>, Eli
>>> Zaretskii<eliz@HIDDEN>
>>> Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2023 12:11:38 +0800
>>>
>>> Yes. It sure sounds like a bug in the GNOME compositor now.
>>> Have you tried disabling GNOME Shell extensions one by one? Maybe one
>>> of them is responsible for this.
>> Whether or not we find some workarounds, I think we should add an
>> entry to PROBLEMS about this.
>
> Speaking of disabling double buffering as a workaround: I went back to
> my old bug reports related to flickering, which double-buffering aimed
> to fix.
>
> I recompiled the GTK3 build without xdbe -- and still couldn't
> reproduce neither bug#12363 (which was admittedly filed on a Windows
> system), nor bug#16621. Even with the same font (Fira Code).
>
> Not sure what changed -- maybe better screen resolution, or a faster
> machine. And the DE, libraries' versions, etc.
>
> But there is a persistent glitch: when the window configuration
> changes, 1 or 2 vertical bars often flash:
>
> https://a.uguu.se/iYTlOftH.mp4 (with emacs -Q)
>
> https://a.uguu.se/YdDWpMid.mp4 (with my config but with tool-bar and
> scroll-bar modes enabled)
>
> scroll-bar-mode on seems to be required to reproduce this.
This is expected: moving the scroll bar causes exposures, which can
cause flickering. That's the problem double buffering is supposed to
fix.
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
Full text available.
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Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
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To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>
References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
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<674e150e-fcbe-7d67-962e-214cfaec2ca0@HIDDEN> <875ybl1dii.fsf@HIDDEN>
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From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
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On 02/03/2023 09:11, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> From: Po Lu<luangruo@HIDDEN>
>> Cc:61667 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Gregory Heytings<gregory@HIDDEN>, Eli
>> Zaretskii<eliz@HIDDEN>
>> Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2023 12:11:38 +0800
>>
>> Yes. It sure sounds like a bug in the GNOME compositor now.
>> Have you tried disabling GNOME Shell extensions one by one? Maybe one
>> of them is responsible for this.
> Whether or not we find some workarounds, I think we should add an
> entry to PROBLEMS about this.
Speaking of disabling double buffering as a workaround: I went back to
my old bug reports related to flickering, which double-buffering aimed
to fix.
I recompiled the GTK3 build without xdbe -- and still couldn't reproduce
neither bug#12363 (which was admittedly filed on a Windows system), nor
bug#16621. Even with the same font (Fira Code).
Not sure what changed -- maybe better screen resolution, or a faster
machine. And the DE, libraries' versions, etc.
But there is a persistent glitch: when the window configuration changes,
1 or 2 vertical bars often flash:
https://a.uguu.se/iYTlOftH.mp4 (with emacs -Q)
https://a.uguu.se/YdDWpMid.mp4 (with my config but with tool-bar and
scroll-bar modes enabled)
scroll-bar-mode on seems to be required to reproduce this.
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
Full text available.
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Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
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To: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>
References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
<8716b41c97839d6a8b87@HIDDEN>
<ef348a4a-a231-9070-19e0-92d0310947bf@HIDDEN>
<7fee18a7-3307-b6de-1428-ae17d51c85af@HIDDEN>
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<8eda4f1e-233e-4963-1b1d-75945eca01d4@HIDDEN> <874jr2y7qk.fsf@HIDDEN>
From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
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On 03/03/2023 02:54, Po Lu wrote:
>> So I went back to the previous Emacs versions.
>>
>> This MRE:
>>
>> src/emacs -Q --eval "(tool-bar-mode -1)" --eval "(menu-bar-mode -1)"
>> --eval "(scroll-bar-mode -1)" --eval "(global-set-key \"a\" (lambda
>> () (interactive) (insert \"!\") (redisplay) (find-file
>> \"xassociations.rb\") ))" --eval "(add-hook 'find-file-hook
>> #'redisplay t)" --eval "(blink-cursor-mode -1 )" --eval "(setq
>> frame-title-format \"aaa\")"
>>
>> Press 'a'. See if the buffer is displayed after a delay.
>
> Could you send me xassociations.rb? I can't reproduce this with any
> file of my own.
Attached, though this doesn't seem to depend on the exact file. E.g., I
reproduced this bug (indefinitely delayed refresh) just today with
src/alloc.c a few times.
>> --eval "(modify-frame-parameters nil '((undecorated . t)))", OTOH, we
>> can also cross out from the list of fixes: the problem still happens
>> with it, though seemingly less often (first repro at the 15th try).
>
> OK, thanks. Damned blink-cursor-mode! Does the frame still refresh
> when you hover over the title bar buttons?
If there is a title bar, and there are buttons, yes, always.
Also, sometimes the frame refreshes right away as soon as I move the
mouse over its border. Sometimes, however, I can move the mouse over it
for a while, and refresh happens only when hovering over the title bar
buttons. Or over the mode-line. Or pressing some button on the keyboard,
of course.
> Also, since we now know blink-cursor-mode was previously screwing with
> the results, would you please try some other window manager again and
> see if the problem reproduces without GNOME?
Tried again with WindowMaker, couldn't reproduce there still. It's still
working kind of sluggishly, though. Also tried installing Xfce4, but
there seems to be some integration problem: it's not possible to log
into it from GDM (journalctl shows some errors about it trying to launch
its own session manager and failing because of GDM already running).
I've also tried to reproduce the error with a Lucid build of Emacs 29
under GNOME -- never hit the problem once.
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--------------9JD7newz6Vz0RG2soH0kgzf5--
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
Full text available.
Message received at 61667 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:
Received: (at 61667) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Mar 2023 13:06:22 +0000
From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Mar 03 08:06:22 2023
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59874 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
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Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2023 15:06:11 +0200
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Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>
References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
<8716b41c97839d6a8b87@HIDDEN>
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From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
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On 03/03/2023 09:29, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>
>> Cc: Gregory Heytings <gregory@HIDDEN>, 61667 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Eli
>> Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
>> Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2023 08:54:43 +0800
>>
>> Also, since we now know blink-cursor-mode was previously screwing with
>> the results, would you please try some other window manager again and
>> see if the problem reproduces without GNOME?
>
> For a good measure, also disable global-eldoc-mode. I've found long
> ago that blink-cursor-mode and global-eldoc-mode get in the way of
> debugging and testing various redisplay problems, because they tend to
> trigger extra redisplay cycles.
>
> For an even cleaner environment, I suggest to disable all the timers
> that we run by default (see "M-x list-timers"). Timers change how our
> main loop behaves, and the routine redisplay calls are part of the
> main loop.
Thank you, I've added
--eval "(global-eldoc-mode -1)" --eval "(show-paren-mode -1)" --eval
"(cancel-timer show-paren--idle-timer)"
but that didn't seem to affect reproducibility, one way or the other.
This left just 2 timers in the list: undo--auto-boundary-timer, and
another jit-lock related, both with intervals >0.5s.
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
Full text available.
Message received at 61667 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:
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Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2023 09:29:19 +0200
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From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
To: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <874jr2y7qk.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Po Lu on Fri, 03 Mar
2023 08:54:43 +0800)
Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
<8716b41c97839d6a8b87@HIDDEN>
<ef348a4a-a231-9070-19e0-92d0310947bf@HIDDEN>
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> From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>
> Cc: Gregory Heytings <gregory@HIDDEN>, 61667 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Eli
> Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
> Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2023 08:54:43 +0800
>
> Also, since we now know blink-cursor-mode was previously screwing with
> the results, would you please try some other window manager again and
> see if the problem reproduces without GNOME?
For a good measure, also disable global-eldoc-mode. I've found long
ago that blink-cursor-mode and global-eldoc-mode get in the way of
debugging and testing various redisplay problems, because they tend to
trigger extra redisplay cycles.
For an even cleaner environment, I suggest to disable all the timers
that we run by default (see "M-x list-timers"). Timers change how our
main loop behaves, and the routine redisplay calls are part of the
main loop.
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
Full text available.
Message received at 61667 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:
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From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>
To: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
In-Reply-To: <8eda4f1e-233e-4963-1b1d-75945eca01d4@HIDDEN> (Dmitry Gutov's
message of "Thu, 2 Mar 2023 17:45:05 +0200")
References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
<8716b41c97839d6a8b87@HIDDEN>
<ef348a4a-a231-9070-19e0-92d0310947bf@HIDDEN>
<7fee18a7-3307-b6de-1428-ae17d51c85af@HIDDEN>
<9ac9271f1ee55a9b8bbf@HIDDEN> <87a60y13ou.fsf@HIDDEN>
<674e150e-fcbe-7d67-962e-214cfaec2ca0@HIDDEN>
<875ybl1dii.fsf@HIDDEN>
<2b249c97-db63-34e1-80c2-0c898005e31f@HIDDEN>
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Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2023 08:54:43 +0800
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Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN> writes:
> I've done so further investigation. Started with trying to find out
> which part of x_set_name_internal causes the problem. Commented out
> this or that call, and none seemed to make a difference.
>
> So I commented out both existing calls to x_set_name_internal: in
> x_set_name and x_set_title. Recompiled -- and the problem still
> reproduces.
>
> Then I added --eval "(setq frame-title-format \"aaa\")" to the command
> line, which we previously identified as potential fix/workaround --
> the problem _still_ reproduces. The frequency seems to be ~the same as
> without it, as long as the x_set_name_internal calls are commented
> out.
>
> With x_set_name_internal not commented out, (setq frame-title-format
> "aaa") seems to lower the frequency of the issue, which coupled with
> blink-cursor-mode (which was previously on, and which fires timers
> over regular intervals) made it rare enough for me to declare the
> problem absent. And also this addition, which now seems to make the
> problem _more_ likely to happen"
>
> --eval "(add-hook 'find-file-hook #'redisplay t)
>
> So I went back to the previous Emacs versions.
>
> This MRE:
>
> src/emacs -Q --eval "(tool-bar-mode -1)" --eval "(menu-bar-mode -1)"
> --eval "(scroll-bar-mode -1)" --eval "(global-set-key \"a\" (lambda
> () (interactive) (insert \"!\") (redisplay) (find-file
> \"xassociations.rb\") ))" --eval "(add-hook 'find-file-hook
> #'redisplay t)" --eval "(blink-cursor-mode -1 )" --eval "(setq
> frame-title-format \"aaa\")"
>
> Press 'a'. See if the buffer is displayed after a delay.
Could you send me xassociations.rb? I can't reproduce this with any
file of my own.
> reproduces (though a little less frequently) in Emacs 28, 27, 26
>
> In 26 it happened ~5 times over 100 tries.
>
> It doesn't seem to reproduce in Emacs 25, though that version is
> pretty buggy here: it tends to hang during startup (around 1 in 6
> times) and I have to pass --eval "(set-frame-size nil 40 18)" for its
> window to have a reasonable size.
I'm not surprised: Emacs 25 doesn't support double buffering.
> --eval "(modify-frame-parameters nil '((undecorated . t)))", OTOH, we
> can also cross out from the list of fixes: the problem still happens
> with it, though seemingly less often (first repro at the 15th try).
OK, thanks. Damned blink-cursor-mode! Does the frame still refresh
when you hover over the title bar buttons?
Also, since we now know blink-cursor-mode was previously screwing with
the results, would you please try some other window manager again and
see if the problem reproduces without GNOME?
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
Full text available.
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Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
Content-Language: en-US
From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
To: Gregory Heytings <gregory@HIDDEN>, Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>
References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
<41c5671e-e9c3-33f3-6c9c-8a1a6fc527fb@HIDDEN> <83ttz8ils1.fsf@HIDDEN>
<8716b41c9716878d8cb9@HIDDEN>
<f31ae245-9792-f7ef-6475-e082abf97257@HIDDEN>
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<ef348a4a-a231-9070-19e0-92d0310947bf@HIDDEN>
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On 02/03/2023 15:39, Dmitry Gutov wrote:
> On 02/03/2023 11:30, Gregory Heytings wrote:
>>
>>>> So... in both problematic cases is seems like there is a
>>>> show_back_buffer call right after x_set_title, and yet it does not
>>>> reflect on screen. Right?
>>>
>>> Yes.
>>>
>>
>> How can you draw such a conclusion without knowing what the back
>> buffer contains? The fact that show_back_buffer is called doesn't
>> imply that it contains what Dmitry expects to see, namely the contents
>> of the xassociations.rb file.
>
> The problem here is that there is no subsequent show_back_buffer call
> which corresponds to the "correct" frame contents. But the correct
> contents do get displayed (albeit with delay).
>
> The only next (last) one is me pressing "C-x" in "C-x C-c", I think.
I've done so further investigation. Started with trying to find out
which part of x_set_name_internal causes the problem. Commented out this
or that call, and none seemed to make a difference.
So I commented out both existing calls to x_set_name_internal: in
x_set_name and x_set_title. Recompiled -- and the problem still reproduces.
Then I added --eval "(setq frame-title-format \"aaa\")" to the command
line, which we previously identified as potential fix/workaround -- the
problem _still_ reproduces. The frequency seems to be ~the same as
without it, as long as the x_set_name_internal calls are commented out.
With x_set_name_internal not commented out, (setq frame-title-format
"aaa") seems to lower the frequency of the issue, which coupled with
blink-cursor-mode (which was previously on, and which fires timers over
regular intervals) made it rare enough for me to declare the problem
absent. And also this addition, which now seems to make the problem
_more_ likely to happen"
--eval "(add-hook 'find-file-hook #'redisplay t)
So I went back to the previous Emacs versions.
This MRE:
src/emacs -Q --eval "(tool-bar-mode -1)" --eval "(menu-bar-mode -1)"
--eval "(scroll-bar-mode -1)" --eval "(global-set-key \"a\" (lambda ()
(interactive) (insert \"!\") (redisplay) (find-file
\"xassociations.rb\") ))" --eval "(add-hook 'find-file-hook #'redisplay
t)" --eval "(blink-cursor-mode -1 )" --eval "(setq frame-title-format
\"aaa\")"
Press 'a'. See if the buffer is displayed after a delay.
reproduces (though a little less frequently) in Emacs 28, 27, 26
In 26 it happened ~5 times over 100 tries.
It doesn't seem to reproduce in Emacs 25, though that version is pretty
buggy here: it tends to hang during startup (around 1 in 6 times) and I
have to pass --eval "(set-frame-size nil 40 18)" for its window to have
a reasonable size.
--eval "(modify-frame-parameters nil '((inhibit-double-buffering . t)))"
still seems to be a reliable fix, so maybe Emacs 25 is by definition
unaffected.
--eval "(modify-frame-parameters nil '((undecorated . t)))", OTOH, we
can also cross out from the list of fixes: the problem still happens
with it, though seemingly less often (first repro at the 15th try).
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
Full text available.
Message received at 61667 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:
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Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
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To: Gregory Heytings <gregory@HIDDEN>, Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>
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From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
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On 02/03/2023 11:30, Gregory Heytings wrote:
>
>>> So... in both problematic cases is seems like there is a
>>> show_back_buffer call right after x_set_title, and yet it does not
>>> reflect on screen. Right?
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>
> How can you draw such a conclusion without knowing what the back buffer
> contains? The fact that show_back_buffer is called doesn't imply that
> it contains what Dmitry expects to see, namely the contents of the
> xassociations.rb file.
The problem here is that there is no subsequent show_back_buffer call
which corresponds to the "correct" frame contents. But the correct
contents do get displayed (albeit with delay).
The only next (last) one is me pressing "C-x" in "C-x C-c", I think.
Information forwarded
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bug#61667; Package emacs.
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Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
To: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>
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On 02/03/2023 06:11, Po Lu wrote:
>> Does that mean, then, that the refresh of the frame after the delay
>> does not correspond to any buffer flushing on Emacs' part?
> Yes. It sure sounds like a bug in the GNOME compositor now.
> Have you tried disabling GNOME Shell extensions one by one? Maybe one
> of them is responsible for this.
Alas, no.
I've tried disabling extensions before, and to double-check now, I
toggled off the "use extensions" switch, logged off and on again, and it
still reproduces.
One minor detail is that for about a minute after logging in I didn't
see the problem, but then it started happening again.
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
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Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
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To: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>, Gregory Heytings <gregory@HIDDEN>
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On 02/03/2023 12:29, Po Lu wrote:
>> And the next one (the last one) happens much later. From further
>> testing, it seems to correlate to me typing 'C-x C-c', rather than to
>> when the frame finally refreshes after the delay (for example, when I
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> decide to stop waiting and hover with the mouse over the frame, or
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> over the title bar buttons).
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Hovering over the title bar buttons generates damage on the window and
> causes Mutter to ``wake up'', prior to anything further buffer flipping
> by Emacs. Mutter cannot magically pull undisplayed frame contents out
> of Emacs.
Is that much different from being affected by a background window? Which
we knew from previous experiments.
A background window changing generates damage, causing Mutter to
refresh... something.
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bug#61667; Package emacs.
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Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2023 11:30:06 +0000
From: Gregory Heytings <gregory@HIDDEN>
To: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
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References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
<8716b41c9716878d8cb9@HIDDEN>
<f31ae245-9792-f7ef-6475-e082abf97257@HIDDEN>
<8716b41c97839d6a8b87@HIDDEN>
<ef348a4a-a231-9070-19e0-92d0310947bf@HIDDEN>
<7fee18a7-3307-b6de-1428-ae17d51c85af@HIDDEN>
<9ac9271f1ee55a9b8bbf@HIDDEN> <87a60y13ou.fsf@HIDDEN>
<674e150e-fcbe-7d67-962e-214cfaec2ca0@HIDDEN> <875ybl1dii.fsf@HIDDEN>
<2b249c97-db63-34e1-80c2-0c898005e31f@HIDDEN> <87zg8xyt0m.fsf@HIDDEN>
<25c817d9-f969-8c24-6ed4-9b35fd6f27ad@HIDDEN>
<87sfeozn8f.fsf@HIDDEN> <ba5a637e-70ee-3d89-8c0a-7e04fb987c6b@HIDDEN>
<87o7pczlsq.fsf@HIDDEN> <43d50d6a-1eb0-cd42-0479-3f9d4d74904a@HIDDEN>
<87ilfkyorf.fsf@HIDDEN> <8f4df0d7-eb1a-379a-db03-314f2c93743b@HIDDEN>
<87a60vztad.fsf@HIDDEN>
<14405ac4f87eba88f1bb@HIDDEN> <87r0u7xxgp.fsf@HIDDEN>
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Cc: 61667 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>,
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>> ERROR 1 | show_back_buffer | | 152
>> ERROR 1 | show_back_buffer | | 46
>> ERROR 1 | x_set_title | xassociations.rb | 0
>> ERROR 1 | show_back_buffer | | 10 <----------------
>> ERROR 1 | show_back_buffer | | 5684
>>
>> ERROR 2 | show_back_buffer | | 130
>> ERROR 2 | show_back_buffer | | 16
>> ERROR 2 | x_set_title | xassociations.rb | 0
>> ERROR 2 | show_back_buffer | | 8 <----------------
>> ERROR 2 | show_back_buffer | | 6302
>>
>> OKAY | show_back_buffer | | 278
>> OKAY | show_back_buffer | | 19
>> OKAY | x_set_title | xassociations.rb | 0
>> OKAY | show_back_buffer | | 8 <----------------
>> OKAY | show_back_buffer | | 560
>
> Sorry, but where in ``10 ms'' and ``8 ms'' do you see a problem?
>
> Dimitry has already said that the second call(s) to show_back_buffer
> after x_set_title correspond to him pressing C-x C-c (and presumably the
> key press being echoed or something along those lines), making it
> irrelevant.
>
Indeed. I missed that part, and thought that the ~6 seconds corresponded
to the "multi-second delay" Dmitry mentioned.
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
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From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>
To: Gregory Heytings <gregory@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
In-Reply-To: <14405ac4f8f101c35628@HIDDEN> (Gregory Heytings's message
of "Thu, 02 Mar 2023 09:30:12 +0000")
References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
<8716b41c9716878d8cb9@HIDDEN>
<f31ae245-9792-f7ef-6475-e082abf97257@HIDDEN>
<8716b41c97839d6a8b87@HIDDEN>
<ef348a4a-a231-9070-19e0-92d0310947bf@HIDDEN>
<7fee18a7-3307-b6de-1428-ae17d51c85af@HIDDEN>
<9ac9271f1ee55a9b8bbf@HIDDEN> <87a60y13ou.fsf@HIDDEN>
<674e150e-fcbe-7d67-962e-214cfaec2ca0@HIDDEN>
<875ybl1dii.fsf@HIDDEN>
<2b249c97-db63-34e1-80c2-0c898005e31f@HIDDEN>
<87zg8xyt0m.fsf@HIDDEN>
<25c817d9-f969-8c24-6ed4-9b35fd6f27ad@HIDDEN>
<87sfeozn8f.fsf@HIDDEN>
<ba5a637e-70ee-3d89-8c0a-7e04fb987c6b@HIDDEN>
<87o7pczlsq.fsf@HIDDEN>
<43d50d6a-1eb0-cd42-0479-3f9d4d74904a@HIDDEN>
<87ilfkyorf.fsf@HIDDEN>
<8f4df0d7-eb1a-379a-db03-314f2c93743b@HIDDEN>
<87a60vztad.fsf@HIDDEN> <14405ac4f8f101c35628@HIDDEN>
Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2023 18:29:14 +0800
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Gregory Heytings <gregory@HIDDEN> writes:
> How can you draw such a conclusion without knowing what the back
> buffer contains? The fact that show_back_buffer is called doesn't
> imply that it contains what Dmitry expects to see, namely the contents
> of the xassociations.rb file.
Because, as Dimitry has said:
> And the next one (the last one) happens much later. From further
> testing, it seems to correlate to me typing 'C-x C-c', rather than to
> when the frame finally refreshes after the delay (for example, when I
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> decide to stop waiting and hover with the mouse over the frame, or
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> over the title bar buttons).
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Hovering over the title bar buttons generates damage on the window and
causes Mutter to ``wake up'', prior to anything further buffer flipping
by Emacs. Mutter cannot magically pull undisplayed frame contents out
of Emacs.
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
Full text available.
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From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>
To: Gregory Heytings <gregory@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
In-Reply-To: <14405ac4f87eba88f1bb@HIDDEN> (Gregory Heytings's message
of "Thu, 02 Mar 2023 09:21:38 +0000")
References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
<8716b41c9716878d8cb9@HIDDEN>
<f31ae245-9792-f7ef-6475-e082abf97257@HIDDEN>
<8716b41c97839d6a8b87@HIDDEN>
<ef348a4a-a231-9070-19e0-92d0310947bf@HIDDEN>
<7fee18a7-3307-b6de-1428-ae17d51c85af@HIDDEN>
<9ac9271f1ee55a9b8bbf@HIDDEN> <87a60y13ou.fsf@HIDDEN>
<674e150e-fcbe-7d67-962e-214cfaec2ca0@HIDDEN>
<875ybl1dii.fsf@HIDDEN>
<2b249c97-db63-34e1-80c2-0c898005e31f@HIDDEN>
<87zg8xyt0m.fsf@HIDDEN>
<25c817d9-f969-8c24-6ed4-9b35fd6f27ad@HIDDEN>
<87sfeozn8f.fsf@HIDDEN>
<ba5a637e-70ee-3d89-8c0a-7e04fb987c6b@HIDDEN>
<87o7pczlsq.fsf@HIDDEN>
<43d50d6a-1eb0-cd42-0479-3f9d4d74904a@HIDDEN>
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<87a60vztad.fsf@HIDDEN> <14405ac4f87eba88f1bb@HIDDEN>
Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2023 18:24:22 +0800
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Gregory Heytings <gregory@HIDDEN> writes:
> It doesn't. The numbers are there, in front of you, and they clearly
> point to a problem in Emacs (the third column is the delta in
> milliseconds):
>
> ERROR 1 | show_back_buffer | | 152
> ERROR 1 | show_back_buffer | | 46
> ERROR 1 | x_set_title | xassociations.rb | 0
> ERROR 1 | show_back_buffer | | 10 <----------------
> ERROR 1 | show_back_buffer | | 5684
>
> ERROR 2 | show_back_buffer | | 130
> ERROR 2 | show_back_buffer | | 16
> ERROR 2 | x_set_title | xassociations.rb | 0
> ERROR 2 | show_back_buffer | | 8 <----------------
> ERROR 2 | show_back_buffer | | 6302
>
> OKAY | show_back_buffer | | 278
> OKAY | show_back_buffer | | 19
> OKAY | x_set_title | xassociations.rb | 0
> OKAY | show_back_buffer | | 8 <----------------
> OKAY | show_back_buffer | | 560
Sorry, but where in ``10 ms'' and ``8 ms'' do you see a problem?
Dimitry has already said that the second call(s) to show_back_buffer
after x_set_title correspond to him pressing C-x C-c (and presumably the
key press being echoed or something along those lines), making it
irrelevant.
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
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Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2023 09:30:12 +0000
From: Gregory Heytings <gregory@HIDDEN>
To: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
In-Reply-To: <87a60vztad.fsf@HIDDEN>
Message-ID: <14405ac4f8f101c35628@HIDDEN>
References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
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<8716b41c9716878d8cb9@HIDDEN>
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Cc: 61667 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>,
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>> So... in both problematic cases is seems like there is a
>> show_back_buffer call right after x_set_title, and yet it does not
>> reflect on screen. Right?
>
> Yes.
>
How can you draw such a conclusion without knowing what the back buffer
contains? The fact that show_back_buffer is called doesn't imply that it
contains what Dmitry expects to see, namely the contents of the
xassociations.rb file.
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
Full text available.
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Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2023 09:21:38 +0000
From: Gregory Heytings <gregory@HIDDEN>
To: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
In-Reply-To: <87a60vztad.fsf@HIDDEN>
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>> Does that mean, then, that the refresh of the frame after the delay
>> does not correspond to any buffer flushing on Emacs' part?
>
> Yes. It sure sounds like a bug in the GNOME compositor now.
>
It doesn't. The numbers are there, in front of you, and they clearly
point to a problem in Emacs (the third column is the delta in
milliseconds):
ERROR 1 | show_back_buffer | | 152
ERROR 1 | show_back_buffer | | 46
ERROR 1 | x_set_title | xassociations.rb | 0
ERROR 1 | show_back_buffer | | 10
ERROR 1 | show_back_buffer | | 5684
ERROR 2 | show_back_buffer | | 130
ERROR 2 | show_back_buffer | | 16
ERROR 2 | x_set_title | xassociations.rb | 0
ERROR 2 | show_back_buffer | | 8
ERROR 2 | show_back_buffer | | 6302
OKAY | show_back_buffer | | 278
OKAY | show_back_buffer | | 19
OKAY | x_set_title | xassociations.rb | 0
OKAY | show_back_buffer | | 8
OKAY | show_back_buffer | | 560
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
Full text available.
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From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
To: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <87a60vztad.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Po Lu on Thu, 02 Mar
2023 12:11:38 +0800)
Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
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> From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>
> Cc: 61667 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Gregory Heytings <gregory@HIDDEN>, Eli
> Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
> Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2023 12:11:38 +0800
>
> Yes. It sure sounds like a bug in the GNOME compositor now.
> Have you tried disabling GNOME Shell extensions one by one? Maybe one
> of them is responsible for this.
Whether or not we find some workarounds, I think we should add an
entry to PROBLEMS about this.
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
Full text available.
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From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>
To: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
In-Reply-To: <8f4df0d7-eb1a-379a-db03-314f2c93743b@HIDDEN> (Dmitry Gutov's
message of "Thu, 2 Mar 2023 03:44:48 +0200")
References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
<41c5671e-e9c3-33f3-6c9c-8a1a6fc527fb@HIDDEN>
<83ttz8ils1.fsf@HIDDEN> <8716b41c9716878d8cb9@HIDDEN>
<f31ae245-9792-f7ef-6475-e082abf97257@HIDDEN>
<8716b41c97839d6a8b87@HIDDEN>
<ef348a4a-a231-9070-19e0-92d0310947bf@HIDDEN>
<7fee18a7-3307-b6de-1428-ae17d51c85af@HIDDEN>
<9ac9271f1ee55a9b8bbf@HIDDEN> <87a60y13ou.fsf@HIDDEN>
<674e150e-fcbe-7d67-962e-214cfaec2ca0@HIDDEN>
<875ybl1dii.fsf@HIDDEN>
<2b249c97-db63-34e1-80c2-0c898005e31f@HIDDEN>
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<8f4df0d7-eb1a-379a-db03-314f2c93743b@HIDDEN>
Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2023 12:11:38 +0800
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Cc: 61667 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Gregory Heytings <gregory@HIDDEN>,
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Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN> writes:
> On 02/03/2023 02:34, Po Lu wrote:
>> Dmitry Gutov<dgutov@HIDDEN> writes:
>>
>>> But blink-cursor-mode was on, of course. It's -Q: everything's on what
>>> was not turned off.
>>>
>>> And it turns out to be the reason for the difference between this and
>>> my personal config. With blink-cursor-mode off, the delay can reach
>>> multiple seconds like I previously reported.
>>>
>>> Attaching new recordings with b-c-m off, same naming scheme.
>>>
>>> x_set_title:*scratch* - GNU Emacs at potemkin, 565346760276
>>> show_back_buffer: 565346918720
>>> show_back_buffer: 565347019580
>>> show_back_buffer: 565347025374
>>> show_back_buffer: 565347147607
>>> show_back_buffer: 565347299581
>>> show_back_buffer: 565347345317
>>> x_set_title: xassociations.rb - GNU Emacs at potemkin, 565347345457
>>> show_back_buffer: 565347355456
>>> show_back_buffer: 565353039484
>>>
>>> x_set_title:*scratch* - GNU Emacs at potemkin, 565390536932
>>> show_back_buffer: 565390678689
>>> show_back_buffer: 565390747051
>>> show_back_buffer: 565390750166
>>> show_back_buffer: 565390875109
>>> show_back_buffer: 565391250430
>>> show_back_buffer: 565391380489
>>> show_back_buffer: 565391396116
>>> x_set_title: xassociations.rb - GNU Emacs at potemkin, 565391396257
>>> show_back_buffer: 565391404687
>>> show_back_buffer: 565397707089
>>>
>>> x_set_title:*scratch* - GNU Emacs at potemkin, 565404022729
>>> show_back_buffer: 565404182867
>>> show_back_buffer: 565404241162
>>> show_back_buffer: 565404244561
>>> show_back_buffer: 565404369071
>>> show_back_buffer: 565404647259
>>> show_back_buffer: 565404666484
>>> x_set_title: xassociations.rb - GNU Emacs at potemkin, 565404666623
>>> show_back_buffer: 565404674305
>>> show_back_buffer: 565405233868
>> Thanks. Unfortunately, now we're back to square one: all three logs are
>> identical, and I can't see any problems in Emacs.
>
> So... in both problematic cases is seems like there is a
> show_back_buffer call right after x_set_title, and yet it does not
> reflect on screen. Right?
Yes.
> And the next one (the last one) happens much later. From further
> testing, it seems to correlate to me typing 'C-x C-c', rather than to
> when the frame finally refreshes after the delay (for example, when I
> decide to stop waiting and hover with the mouse over the frame, or
> over the title bar buttons).
Indeed, that's what it seems like to me as well.
> Does that mean, then, that the refresh of the frame after the delay
> does not correspond to any buffer flushing on Emacs' part?
Yes. It sure sounds like a bug in the GNOME compositor now.
Have you tried disabling GNOME Shell extensions one by one? Maybe one
of them is responsible for this.
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
Full text available.
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Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2023 03:44:48 +0200
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Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
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To: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>
References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
<2d674d22-fe8c-b7a3-115f-515a8a37b7e5@HIDDEN> <831qmck3qt.fsf@HIDDEN>
<41c5671e-e9c3-33f3-6c9c-8a1a6fc527fb@HIDDEN> <83ttz8ils1.fsf@HIDDEN>
<8716b41c9716878d8cb9@HIDDEN>
<f31ae245-9792-f7ef-6475-e082abf97257@HIDDEN>
<8716b41c97839d6a8b87@HIDDEN>
<ef348a4a-a231-9070-19e0-92d0310947bf@HIDDEN>
<7fee18a7-3307-b6de-1428-ae17d51c85af@HIDDEN>
<9ac9271f1ee55a9b8bbf@HIDDEN> <87a60y13ou.fsf@HIDDEN>
<674e150e-fcbe-7d67-962e-214cfaec2ca0@HIDDEN> <875ybl1dii.fsf@HIDDEN>
<2b249c97-db63-34e1-80c2-0c898005e31f@HIDDEN> <87zg8xyt0m.fsf@HIDDEN>
<25c817d9-f969-8c24-6ed4-9b35fd6f27ad@HIDDEN> <87sfeozn8f.fsf@HIDDEN>
<ba5a637e-70ee-3d89-8c0a-7e04fb987c6b@HIDDEN> <87o7pczlsq.fsf@HIDDEN>
<43d50d6a-1eb0-cd42-0479-3f9d4d74904a@HIDDEN> <87ilfkyorf.fsf@HIDDEN>
From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
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On 02/03/2023 02:34, Po Lu wrote:
> Dmitry Gutov<dgutov@HIDDEN> writes:
>
>> But blink-cursor-mode was on, of course. It's -Q: everything's on what
>> was not turned off.
>>
>> And it turns out to be the reason for the difference between this and
>> my personal config. With blink-cursor-mode off, the delay can reach
>> multiple seconds like I previously reported.
>>
>> Attaching new recordings with b-c-m off, same naming scheme.
>>
>> x_set_title:*scratch* - GNU Emacs at potemkin, 565346760276
>> show_back_buffer: 565346918720
>> show_back_buffer: 565347019580
>> show_back_buffer: 565347025374
>> show_back_buffer: 565347147607
>> show_back_buffer: 565347299581
>> show_back_buffer: 565347345317
>> x_set_title: xassociations.rb - GNU Emacs at potemkin, 565347345457
>> show_back_buffer: 565347355456
>> show_back_buffer: 565353039484
>>
>> x_set_title:*scratch* - GNU Emacs at potemkin, 565390536932
>> show_back_buffer: 565390678689
>> show_back_buffer: 565390747051
>> show_back_buffer: 565390750166
>> show_back_buffer: 565390875109
>> show_back_buffer: 565391250430
>> show_back_buffer: 565391380489
>> show_back_buffer: 565391396116
>> x_set_title: xassociations.rb - GNU Emacs at potemkin, 565391396257
>> show_back_buffer: 565391404687
>> show_back_buffer: 565397707089
>>
>> x_set_title:*scratch* - GNU Emacs at potemkin, 565404022729
>> show_back_buffer: 565404182867
>> show_back_buffer: 565404241162
>> show_back_buffer: 565404244561
>> show_back_buffer: 565404369071
>> show_back_buffer: 565404647259
>> show_back_buffer: 565404666484
>> x_set_title: xassociations.rb - GNU Emacs at potemkin, 565404666623
>> show_back_buffer: 565404674305
>> show_back_buffer: 565405233868
> Thanks. Unfortunately, now we're back to square one: all three logs are
> identical, and I can't see any problems in Emacs.
So... in both problematic cases is seems like there is a
show_back_buffer call right after x_set_title, and yet it does not
reflect on screen. Right?
And the next one (the last one) happens much later. From further
testing, it seems to correlate to me typing 'C-x C-c', rather than to
when the frame finally refreshes after the delay (for example, when I
decide to stop waiting and hover with the mouse over the frame, or over
the title bar buttons).
Does that mean, then, that the refresh of the frame after the delay does
not correspond to any buffer flushing on Emacs' part?
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
Full text available.
Message received at 61667 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:
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From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>
To: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
In-Reply-To: <43d50d6a-1eb0-cd42-0479-3f9d4d74904a@HIDDEN> (Dmitry Gutov's
message of "Wed, 1 Mar 2023 16:33:11 +0200")
References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
<2d674d22-fe8c-b7a3-115f-515a8a37b7e5@HIDDEN>
<831qmck3qt.fsf@HIDDEN>
<41c5671e-e9c3-33f3-6c9c-8a1a6fc527fb@HIDDEN>
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<f31ae245-9792-f7ef-6475-e082abf97257@HIDDEN>
<8716b41c97839d6a8b87@HIDDEN>
<ef348a4a-a231-9070-19e0-92d0310947bf@HIDDEN>
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Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2023 08:34:44 +0800
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Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN> writes:
> But blink-cursor-mode was on, of course. It's -Q: everything's on what
> was not turned off.
>
> And it turns out to be the reason for the difference between this and
> my personal config. With blink-cursor-mode off, the delay can reach
> multiple seconds like I previously reported.
>
> Attaching new recordings with b-c-m off, same naming scheme.
>
> x_set_title: *scratch* - GNU Emacs at potemkin, 565346760276
> show_back_buffer: 565346918720
> show_back_buffer: 565347019580
> show_back_buffer: 565347025374
> show_back_buffer: 565347147607
> show_back_buffer: 565347299581
> show_back_buffer: 565347345317
> x_set_title: xassociations.rb - GNU Emacs at potemkin, 565347345457
> show_back_buffer: 565347355456
> show_back_buffer: 565353039484
>
> x_set_title: *scratch* - GNU Emacs at potemkin, 565390536932
> show_back_buffer: 565390678689
> show_back_buffer: 565390747051
> show_back_buffer: 565390750166
> show_back_buffer: 565390875109
> show_back_buffer: 565391250430
> show_back_buffer: 565391380489
> show_back_buffer: 565391396116
> x_set_title: xassociations.rb - GNU Emacs at potemkin, 565391396257
> show_back_buffer: 565391404687
> show_back_buffer: 565397707089
>
> x_set_title: *scratch* - GNU Emacs at potemkin, 565404022729
> show_back_buffer: 565404182867
> show_back_buffer: 565404241162
> show_back_buffer: 565404244561
> show_back_buffer: 565404369071
> show_back_buffer: 565404647259
> show_back_buffer: 565404666484
> x_set_title: xassociations.rb - GNU Emacs at potemkin, 565404666623
> show_back_buffer: 565404674305
> show_back_buffer: 565405233868
Thanks. Unfortunately, now we're back to square one: all three logs are
identical, and I can't see any problems in Emacs.
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
Full text available.
Message received at 61667 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:
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From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
To: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>
References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
<d60f9b7f-fcfa-3f52-b848-ef04d259df14@HIDDEN> <83356sk4jk.fsf@HIDDEN>
<2d674d22-fe8c-b7a3-115f-515a8a37b7e5@HIDDEN> <831qmck3qt.fsf@HIDDEN>
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--------------XCho5oayUvOFbUmHi3MuS90c
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On 01/03/2023 14:41, Po Lu via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army
knife of text editors wrote:
> Dmitry Gutov<dgutov@HIDDEN> writes:
>
>> Nope, it's for the "no problem" case. Hence the name.
> Huh, that's really weird. If blink-cursor-mode is not the source of the
> inconsistencies, then the only explanation is that GNOME somehow behaves
> badly if:
>
> - the back buffer is displayed prior to the title being set.
> - the WM name is changed.
> - another buffer swap happens 400 ms later.
This delay happens because of the human factor: I need to hit 'a' after
the frame has fully rendered, to run the command (which inserts !,
redisplays, then calls find-file).
> I will try to see if I can reproduce this.
>
>> I am sure, but just to verify, I redid the experiment again. See
>> attached files, the naming scheme is the same: two problem cases and
>> one "okay" case.
> Was blink-cursor-mode turned off, BTW? If it is on, then potentially
> superfluous buffer swaps will end up in the logs once per
> blink-cursor-interval and screw them up.
But blink-cursor-mode was on, of course. It's -Q: everything's on what
was not turned off.
And it turns out to be the reason for the difference between this and my
personal config. With blink-cursor-mode off, the delay can reach
multiple seconds like I previously reported.
Attaching new recordings with b-c-m off, same naming scheme.
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From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>
To: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
In-Reply-To: <ba5a637e-70ee-3d89-8c0a-7e04fb987c6b@HIDDEN> (Dmitry Gutov's
message of "Wed, 1 Mar 2023 14:19:50 +0200")
References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
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Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2023 20:41:09 +0800
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Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN> writes:
> Nope, it's for the "no problem" case. Hence the name.
Huh, that's really weird. If blink-cursor-mode is not the source of the
inconsistencies, then the only explanation is that GNOME somehow behaves
badly if:
- the back buffer is displayed prior to the title being set.
- the WM name is changed.
- another buffer swap happens 400 ms later.
I will try to see if I can reproduce this.
> I am sure, but just to verify, I redid the experiment again. See
> attached files, the naming scheme is the same: two problem cases and
> one "okay" case.
Was blink-cursor-mode turned off, BTW? If it is on, then potentially
superfluous buffer swaps will end up in the logs once per
blink-cursor-interval and screw them up.
Thanks.
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bug#61667; Package emacs.
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Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
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To: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>
References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
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On 01/03/2023 14:10, Po Lu wrote:
> This log (``err-okay.log'') was generated when you encountered the
> problem, right?
Nope, it's for the "no problem" case. Hence the name.
> Because here, the buffer swap happens 400 ms after
> the frame title changes.
>
>> x_set_title: *scratch* - GNU Emacs at potemkin, 554169702405
>> show_back_buffer: 554169844161
>> show_back_buffer: 554169930769
>> show_back_buffer: 554169943915
>> show_back_buffer: 554170059535
>> show_back_buffer: 554170197598
>> show_back_buffer: 554170246100
>> x_set_title: xassociations.rb - GNU Emacs at potemkin, 554170246258
>> show_back_buffer: 554170256469
>> show_back_buffer: 554170744241
>
> While these two appear to be fine, with the buffer swap happening only
> ~15ms afterwards. So are you sure your description is correct?
I am sure, but just to verify, I redid the experiment again. See
attached files, the naming scheme is the same: two problem cases and one
"okay" case.
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Information forwarded
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bug#61667; Package emacs.
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From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>
To: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
In-Reply-To: <25c817d9-f969-8c24-6ed4-9b35fd6f27ad@HIDDEN> (Dmitry Gutov's
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This log (``err-okay.log'') was generated when you encountered the
problem, right? Because here, the buffer swap happens 400 ms after
the frame title changes.
> x_set_title: *scratch* - GNU Emacs at potemkin, 554169702405
> show_back_buffer: 554169844161
> show_back_buffer: 554169930769
> show_back_buffer: 554169943915
> show_back_buffer: 554170059535
> show_back_buffer: 554170197598
> show_back_buffer: 554170246100
> x_set_title: xassociations.rb - GNU Emacs at potemkin, 554170246258
> show_back_buffer: 554170256469
> show_back_buffer: 554170744241
While these two appear to be fine, with the buffer swap happening only
~15ms afterwards. So are you sure your description is correct?
> x_set_title: *scratch* - GNU Emacs at potemkin, 554112118100
> show_back_buffer: 554112279375
> show_back_buffer: 554112342946
> show_back_buffer: 554112346783
> show_back_buffer: 554112437591
> show_back_buffer: 554112478589
> x_set_title: xassociations.rb - GNU Emacs at potemkin, 554112478748
> show_back_buffer: 554112489879
> show_back_buffer: 554112992823
> show_back_buffer: 554113493216
> show_back_buffer: 554113983937
> show_back_buffer: 554113992967
>
> x_set_title: *scratch* - GNU Emacs at potemkin, 554158723545
> show_back_buffer: 554158858188
> show_back_buffer: 554158917555
> show_back_buffer: 554158920621
> show_back_buffer: 554159045904
> show_back_buffer: 554159154120
> show_back_buffer: 554159200171
> x_set_title: xassociations.rb - GNU Emacs at potemkin, 554159200318
> show_back_buffer: 554159216640
> show_back_buffer: 554159719371
> show_back_buffer: 554160224273
> show_back_buffer: 554160719622
> show_back_buffer: 554161221086
> show_back_buffer: 554161349219
Thanks in advance.
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
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Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
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To: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>
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From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
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On 01/03/2023 06:50, Po Lu wrote:
> OK, I have to be 100% sure we're not missing something here. With
> stderr redirected to a file, and the following instrumentation applied::
>
> diff --git a/src/xfns.c b/src/xfns.c
> index 9e004f6a678..b4bef7f38fd 100644
> --- a/src/xfns.c
> +++ b/src/xfns.c
> @@ -2232,6 +2232,18 @@ x_set_name_internal (struct frame *f, Lisp_Object name)
> SDATA (encoded_icon_name),
> SBYTES (encoded_icon_name));
>
> + long long
> + current_ust (void)
> + {
> + struct timespec ts;
> +
> + clock_gettime (CLOCK_MONOTONIC, &ts);
> + return ts.tv_sec * 1000000 + ts.tv_nsec / 1000;
> + }
> +
> + fprintf (stderr, "x_set_title: %s, %lld\n",
> + SSDATA (name), current_ust ());
> +
> if (do_free_icon_value)
> xfree (icon.value);
> if (do_free_text_value)
> diff --git a/src/xterm.c b/src/xterm.c
> index 70bcb67d80d..c7ad1bbb722 100644
> --- a/src/xterm.c
> +++ b/src/xterm.c
> @@ -7439,6 +7439,18 @@ show_back_buffer (struct frame *f)
> swap_info.swap_action = XdbeCopied;
> XdbeSwapBuffers (FRAME_X_DISPLAY (f), &swap_info, 1);
>
> + long long
> + current_ust (void)
> + {
> + struct timespec ts;
> +
> + clock_gettime (CLOCK_MONOTONIC, &ts);
> + return ts.tv_sec * 1000000 + ts.tv_nsec / 1000;
> + }
> +
> + fprintf (stderr, "show_back_buffer: %lld\n",
> + current_ust ());
> +
> #if defined HAVE_XSYNC && !defined USE_GTK && defined HAVE_CLOCK_GETTIME
> /* Finish the frame here. */
> x_sync_update_finish (f);
>
> do you see a significant amount of time taken between setting the title
> and swapping buffers?
It seemed more difficult to reproduce with this patch, but still I
managed to hit that twice over a couple of dozen tries.
Attached are three logs: two when the problem was hit, and one "normal"
for comparison.
--------------r50KFOrVOf2r08vDoI4B3zkU
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Information forwarded
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bug#61667; Package emacs.
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From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>
To: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
In-Reply-To: <2b249c97-db63-34e1-80c2-0c898005e31f@HIDDEN> (Dmitry Gutov's
message of "Wed, 1 Mar 2023 03:25:05 +0200")
References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
<1dafb35c-657c-037f-8244-4568b4e22fcd@HIDDEN>
<8716b41c9708333e6bdb@HIDDEN>
<6f161919-7ee4-e461-e688-797c76fa6d74@HIDDEN>
<83fsatj57m.fsf@HIDDEN>
<d60f9b7f-fcfa-3f52-b848-ef04d259df14@HIDDEN>
<83356sk4jk.fsf@HIDDEN>
<2d674d22-fe8c-b7a3-115f-515a8a37b7e5@HIDDEN>
<831qmck3qt.fsf@HIDDEN>
<41c5671e-e9c3-33f3-6c9c-8a1a6fc527fb@HIDDEN>
<83ttz8ils1.fsf@HIDDEN> <8716b41c9716878d8cb9@HIDDEN>
<f31ae245-9792-f7ef-6475-e082abf97257@HIDDEN>
<8716b41c97839d6a8b87@HIDDEN>
<ef348a4a-a231-9070-19e0-92d0310947bf@HIDDEN>
<7fee18a7-3307-b6de-1428-ae17d51c85af@HIDDEN>
<9ac9271f1ee55a9b8bbf@HIDDEN> <87a60y13ou.fsf@HIDDEN>
<674e150e-fcbe-7d67-962e-214cfaec2ca0@HIDDEN>
<875ybl1dii.fsf@HIDDEN>
<2b249c97-db63-34e1-80c2-0c898005e31f@HIDDEN>
Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2023 12:50:33 +0800
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Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN> writes:
> On 01/03/2023 03:11, Po Lu wrote:
>> Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN> writes:
>>
>>> Why does constant frame-title-format fix this, though?
>> Because presumably Mutter has no need to damage the title bar, which
>> you
>> do see changing.
>>
>>> I have tried this with default config (double buffering on,
>>> undecorated off), and I don't see any delay between text insertion and
>>> frame title changes. 1 second pause, "Test 1" is inserted, the title
>>> changes (*), 1 second pause, "Test 2" is inserted, the title changes.
>>>
>>> That probably means I don't need to test the alternative configs,
>>> right?
>> Yes, but that's odd. What if you run the entire test in an infinite
>> loop?
>> Do you eventually notice a delay?
>
> Originally I ran the test a couple of dozen times (restating Emacs
> every try), like I do with the MRE scenario when testing different
> settings.
>
> Now I re-ran it with (dotimes (i 20) ...) twice, and didn't see the
> problem either.
>
> Not sure how infinite you want this loop to be, but the original
> scenarios would almost certainly have showed the problem several times
> over this many tries.
OK, I have to be 100% sure we're not missing something here. With
stderr redirected to a file, and the following instrumentation applied::
diff --git a/src/xfns.c b/src/xfns.c
index 9e004f6a678..b4bef7f38fd 100644
--- a/src/xfns.c
+++ b/src/xfns.c
@@ -2232,6 +2232,18 @@ x_set_name_internal (struct frame *f, Lisp_Object name)
SDATA (encoded_icon_name),
SBYTES (encoded_icon_name));
+ long long
+ current_ust (void)
+ {
+ struct timespec ts;
+
+ clock_gettime (CLOCK_MONOTONIC, &ts);
+ return ts.tv_sec * 1000000 + ts.tv_nsec / 1000;
+ }
+
+ fprintf (stderr, "x_set_title: %s, %lld\n",
+ SSDATA (name), current_ust ());
+
if (do_free_icon_value)
xfree (icon.value);
if (do_free_text_value)
diff --git a/src/xterm.c b/src/xterm.c
index 70bcb67d80d..c7ad1bbb722 100644
--- a/src/xterm.c
+++ b/src/xterm.c
@@ -7439,6 +7439,18 @@ show_back_buffer (struct frame *f)
swap_info.swap_action = XdbeCopied;
XdbeSwapBuffers (FRAME_X_DISPLAY (f), &swap_info, 1);
+ long long
+ current_ust (void)
+ {
+ struct timespec ts;
+
+ clock_gettime (CLOCK_MONOTONIC, &ts);
+ return ts.tv_sec * 1000000 + ts.tv_nsec / 1000;
+ }
+
+ fprintf (stderr, "show_back_buffer: %lld\n",
+ current_ust ());
+
#if defined HAVE_XSYNC && !defined USE_GTK && defined HAVE_CLOCK_GETTIME
/* Finish the frame here. */
x_sync_update_finish (f);
do you see a significant amount of time taken between setting the title
and swapping buffers?
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
Full text available.
Message received at 61667 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:
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Message-ID: <2b249c97-db63-34e1-80c2-0c898005e31f@HIDDEN>
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Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
Content-Language: en-US
To: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>
References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
<ab4b398f-0cf6-1a67-0eb0-a2b590b2be50@HIDDEN>
<8716b41c9757d7e81bd2@HIDDEN>
<1dafb35c-657c-037f-8244-4568b4e22fcd@HIDDEN>
<8716b41c9708333e6bdb@HIDDEN>
<6f161919-7ee4-e461-e688-797c76fa6d74@HIDDEN> <83fsatj57m.fsf@HIDDEN>
<d60f9b7f-fcfa-3f52-b848-ef04d259df14@HIDDEN> <83356sk4jk.fsf@HIDDEN>
<2d674d22-fe8c-b7a3-115f-515a8a37b7e5@HIDDEN> <831qmck3qt.fsf@HIDDEN>
<41c5671e-e9c3-33f3-6c9c-8a1a6fc527fb@HIDDEN> <83ttz8ils1.fsf@HIDDEN>
<8716b41c9716878d8cb9@HIDDEN>
<f31ae245-9792-f7ef-6475-e082abf97257@HIDDEN>
<8716b41c97839d6a8b87@HIDDEN>
<ef348a4a-a231-9070-19e0-92d0310947bf@HIDDEN>
<7fee18a7-3307-b6de-1428-ae17d51c85af@HIDDEN>
<9ac9271f1ee55a9b8bbf@HIDDEN> <87a60y13ou.fsf@HIDDEN>
<674e150e-fcbe-7d67-962e-214cfaec2ca0@HIDDEN> <875ybl1dii.fsf@HIDDEN>
From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
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On 01/03/2023 03:11, Po Lu wrote:
> Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN> writes:
>
>> Why does constant frame-title-format fix this, though?
>
> Because presumably Mutter has no need to damage the title bar, which you
> do see changing.
>
>> I have tried this with default config (double buffering on,
>> undecorated off), and I don't see any delay between text insertion and
>> frame title changes. 1 second pause, "Test 1" is inserted, the title
>> changes (*), 1 second pause, "Test 2" is inserted, the title changes.
>>
>> That probably means I don't need to test the alternative configs,
>> right?
>
> Yes, but that's odd. What if you run the entire test in an infinite loop?
> Do you eventually notice a delay?
Originally I ran the test a couple of dozen times (restating Emacs every
try), like I do with the MRE scenario when testing different settings.
Now I re-ran it with (dotimes (i 20) ...) twice, and didn't see the
problem either.
Not sure how infinite you want this loop to be, but the original
scenarios would almost certainly have showed the problem several times
over this many tries.
>> (*) By default frame-title-format is eq to icon-title-format, so with
>> 'emacs -Q' the title doesn't actually change on the first step. I
>
> The idea was to restore the original frame-title-format, yes; it was
> supposed to be run in a loop as well.
All right.
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
Full text available.
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From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>
To: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
In-Reply-To: <674e150e-fcbe-7d67-962e-214cfaec2ca0@HIDDEN> (Dmitry Gutov's
message of "Tue, 28 Feb 2023 19:59:24 +0200")
References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
<ab4b398f-0cf6-1a67-0eb0-a2b590b2be50@HIDDEN>
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<674e150e-fcbe-7d67-962e-214cfaec2ca0@HIDDEN>
Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2023 09:11:49 +0800
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Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN> writes:
> Why does constant frame-title-format fix this, though?
Because presumably Mutter has no need to damage the title bar, which you
do see changing.
> I have tried this with default config (double buffering on,
> undecorated off), and I don't see any delay between text insertion and
> frame title changes. 1 second pause, "Test 1" is inserted, the title
> changes (*), 1 second pause, "Test 2" is inserted, the title changes.
>
> That probably means I don't need to test the alternative configs,
> right?
Yes, but that's odd. What if you run the entire test in an infinite loop?
Do you eventually notice a delay?
> (*) By default frame-title-format is eq to icon-title-format, so with
> 'emacs -Q' the title doesn't actually change on the first step. I
The idea was to restore the original frame-title-format, yes; it was
supposed to be run in a loop as well.
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
Full text available.
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Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
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From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
To: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>, Gregory Heytings <gregory@HIDDEN>
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On 28/02/2023 19:59, Dmitry Gutov wrote:
> In both the second insertion of "Test 2" coincides with the title change
> to "test title".
...to the second value. Which is either "test title", or the other one.
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
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From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
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On 28/02/2023 12:31, Po Lu wrote:
> Gregory Heytings <gregory@HIDDEN> writes:
>
>> Thanks! After seeing this, I'm now convinced that the problem is not
>> a GNOME one, for two reasons:
>>
>> 1. The effect of (insert "!") (redisplay) is immediately visible on
>> screen. Why would GNOME treat the effect of changing the buffer from
>> *scratch* to xassociations.rb differently?
>
> If you insert "!", the frame title does not change, right?
"!" is inserted in the same buffer the command is invoked from - so the
title shouldn't change at that point yet.
> Everything points to this being a bug somewhere in Mutter: how damage to
> surrounding windows (including obscured ones) prevents it from showing
> up, and how it doesn't show up in an undecorated frame.
Why does constant frame-title-format fix this, though?
> Dimitry, do you see any delay between the change in the frame title and
> when ``Test 2'' becomes visible? With and without double buffering, and
> with and without `undecorated' set to `t'?
>
> (progn
> (sleep-for 1)
> (setq frame-title-format icon-title-format)
> (insert "Test 1")
> (force-mode-line-update)
> (redisplay)
> (sleep-for 1)
> (setq frame-title-format "test title")
> (insert "Test 2")
> (force-mode-line-update)
> (redisplay))
I have tried this with default config (double buffering on, undecorated
off), and I don't see any delay between text insertion and frame title
changes. 1 second pause, "Test 1" is inserted, the title changes (*), 1
second pause, "Test 2" is inserted, the title changes.
That probably means I don't need to test the alternative configs, right?
(*) By default frame-title-format is eq to icon-title-format, so with
'emacs -Q' the title doesn't actually change on the first step. I tried
both this scenario and the scenario with swapped frame-title-format
assignments. In both the second insertion of "Test 2" coincides with the
title change to "test title".
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
Full text available.
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Tue, 28 Feb 2023 10:31:50 +0000 (UTC)
From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>
To: Gregory Heytings <gregory@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
In-Reply-To: <9ac9271f1ee55a9b8bbf@HIDDEN> (Gregory Heytings's message
of "Mon, 27 Feb 2023 10:30:34 +0000")
References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
<c1cb4dbd-a25b-b46c-8ac5-c421a213ee3b@HIDDEN>
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Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2023 18:31:45 +0800
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Gregory Heytings <gregory@HIDDEN> writes:
> Thanks! After seeing this, I'm now convinced that the problem is not
> a GNOME one, for two reasons:
>
> 1. The effect of (insert "!") (redisplay) is immediately visible on
> screen. Why would GNOME treat the effect of changing the buffer from
> *scratch* to xassociations.rb differently?
If you insert "!", the frame title does not change, right?
Everything points to this being a bug somewhere in Mutter: how damage to
surrounding windows (including obscured ones) prevents it from showing
up, and how it doesn't show up in an undecorated frame.
Dimitry, do you see any delay between the change in the frame title and
when ``Test 2'' becomes visible? With and without double buffering, and
with and without `undecorated' set to `t'?
(progn
(sleep-for 1)
(setq frame-title-format icon-title-format)
(insert "Test 1")
(force-mode-line-update)
(redisplay)
(sleep-for 1)
(setq frame-title-format "test title")
(insert "Test 2")
(force-mode-line-update)
(redisplay))
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
Full text available.
Message received at 61667 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:
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From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>
To: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
In-Reply-To: <58ace338-3832-792b-30a4-c747fb827b64@HIDDEN> (Dmitry Gutov's
message of "Sun, 26 Feb 2023 14:15:39 +0200")
References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
<96b742a05dea855f9636@HIDDEN>
<853eca8f-5850-dd73-7601-4fad92613ab9@HIDDEN>
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Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2023 18:24:07 +0800
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Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN> writes:
> --eval "(modify-frame-parameters nil '((undecorated . t)))"
>
> does fix the problem, like the other two methods.
I guess that confirms my theory.
I am currently rather sick, but once I get better I will try to make a
reproducer that doesn't involve Emacs and report this to GNOME.
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
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Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
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To: Gregory Heytings <gregory@HIDDEN>
References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
<5002b0b34bd381f6d1f9@HIDDEN>
<c1cb4dbd-a25b-b46c-8ac5-c421a213ee3b@HIDDEN>
<8716b41c97734e78145e@HIDDEN>
<ab4b398f-0cf6-1a67-0eb0-a2b590b2be50@HIDDEN>
<8716b41c9757d7e81bd2@HIDDEN>
<1dafb35c-657c-037f-8244-4568b4e22fcd@HIDDEN>
<8716b41c9708333e6bdb@HIDDEN>
<6f161919-7ee4-e461-e688-797c76fa6d74@HIDDEN> <83fsatj57m.fsf@HIDDEN>
<d60f9b7f-fcfa-3f52-b848-ef04d259df14@HIDDEN> <83356sk4jk.fsf@HIDDEN>
<2d674d22-fe8c-b7a3-115f-515a8a37b7e5@HIDDEN> <831qmck3qt.fsf@HIDDEN>
<41c5671e-e9c3-33f3-6c9c-8a1a6fc527fb@HIDDEN> <83ttz8ils1.fsf@HIDDEN>
<8716b41c9716878d8cb9@HIDDEN>
<f31ae245-9792-f7ef-6475-e082abf97257@HIDDEN>
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<c78c428e-7ccb-4f9f-1e37-d50d97ce69c7@HIDDEN>
<9ac9271f1e3dfa85a837@HIDDEN>
From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
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On 28/02/2023 00:41, Gregory Heytings wrote:
>
>> One of the sides is subtly wrong -- not sure which one -- but other
>> applications don't seem to exhibit the same buffering problem, so some
>> sequence of action which would fix our situation should exist.
>>
>
> I think adding this:
>
> (add-to-list 'find-file-hook #'redisplay t)
>
> at the end of your init file will probably "fix" (in the sense of
> circumventing) the problem.
It does help, in the sense that the bug occurs like 5x less often.
I can still reproduce it using the base scenario, though. Just have to
try a little longer.
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
Full text available.
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Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2023 22:41:03 +0000
From: Gregory Heytings <gregory@HIDDEN>
To: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
In-Reply-To: <c78c428e-7ccb-4f9f-1e37-d50d97ce69c7@HIDDEN>
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<c1cb4dbd-a25b-b46c-8ac5-c421a213ee3b@HIDDEN>
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<8716b41c9757d7e81bd2@HIDDEN>
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> One of the sides is subtly wrong -- not sure which one -- but other
> applications don't seem to exhibit the same buffering problem, so some
> sequence of action which would fix our situation should exist.
>
I think adding this:
(add-to-list 'find-file-hook #'redisplay t)
at the end of your init file will probably "fix" (in the sense of
circumventing) the problem.
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
Full text available.
Message received at 61667 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:
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Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
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To: Gregory Heytings <gregory@HIDDEN>
References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
<5002b0b34b0ee4220ba5@HIDDEN>
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From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
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On 27/02/2023 12:30, Gregory Heytings wrote:
>>
>> I redid the screencast using ffmpeg and x11grab, and it captures the
>> problem fine. See the last two attempts (out of 6) in this video:
>>
>> https://a.uguu.se/PThfScNL.webm
>>
>> Note I also added (insert "!") and (redisplay) so that it's easy to
>> see the exact moment "a" was pressed.
>>
>
> Thanks! After seeing this, I'm now convinced that the problem is not a
> GNOME one, for two reasons:
>
> 1. The effect of (insert "!") (redisplay) is immediately visible on
> screen. Why would GNOME treat the effect of changing the buffer from
> *scratch* to xassociations.rb differently?
>
> 2. The delay is different with emacs -Q (13 frames in that video, which
> at 25 FPS means 520 ms) and with your config. Why would GNOME treat the
> same app differently depending on how it is configured?
Thank you. At the very least it seems to mean that Mutter isn't outright
broken.
There seems to be some problem regarding synchronization around the
setting of the frame title.
One of the sides is subtly wrong -- not sure which one -- but other
applications don't seem to exhibit the same buffering problem, so some
sequence of action which would fix our situation should exist.
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
Full text available.
Message received at 61667 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:
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Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2023 10:30:34 +0000
From: Gregory Heytings <gregory@HIDDEN>
To: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
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>
> I redid the screencast using ffmpeg and x11grab, and it captures the
> problem fine. See the last two attempts (out of 6) in this video:
>
> https://a.uguu.se/PThfScNL.webm
>
> Note I also added (insert "!") and (redisplay) so that it's easy to see
> the exact moment "a" was pressed.
>
Thanks! After seeing this, I'm now convinced that the problem is not a
GNOME one, for two reasons:
1. The effect of (insert "!") (redisplay) is immediately visible on
screen. Why would GNOME treat the effect of changing the buffer from
*scratch* to xassociations.rb differently?
2. The delay is different with emacs -Q (13 frames in that video, which at
25 FPS means 520 ms) and with your config. Why would GNOME treat the same
app differently depending on how it is configured?
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
Full text available.
Message received at 61667 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:
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Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
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From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
To: Gregory Heytings <gregory@HIDDEN>
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On 26/02/2023 19:00, Dmitry Gutov wrote:
> Its weird: screencast recording doesn't stop the problem from happening
> live, but it fails to capture how it looks.
>
> I've recorded a half dozen of such screencasts, and I think only one of
> them managed to capture the desynchronization between the title bar and
> the window update. The rest look like there is no delay.
That might be a peculiarity of gnome-screenshot..
I redid the screencast using ffmpeg and x11grab, and it captures the
problem fine. See the last two attempts (out of 6) in this video:
https://a.uguu.se/PThfScNL.webm
Note I also added (insert "!") and (redisplay) so that it's easy to see
the exact moment "a" was pressed.
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
Full text available.
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Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
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To: Gregory Heytings <gregory@HIDDEN>
References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
<5002b0b34b1213122157@HIDDEN>
<cd181871-993e-d472-7e24-dc7f85916782@HIDDEN>
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From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
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On 26/02/2023 17:54, Gregory Heytings wrote:
>
>>>> To avoid this measurement affecting the delay itself, as we saw with
>>>> printfs and trace-redisplay, the timings should be sent via pipe to
>>>> a file, not to the screen.
>>>
>>> If they indeed don't affect the measurement when they are sent to a
>>> file, it is probably possible to sent them to the screen without
>>> affecting the measurement, by calling 'tail -f' on the file in which
>>> they are recorded in another terminal.
>>
>> Yes, I suppose this can work, if the new terminal is positioned far
>> away from Emacs's window.
>>
>> None of the new proposed tests depend on me being able to monitor the
>> output in real time, though.
>>
>
> If you want to measure the latency between the moment an XFlush is
> issued by Emacs and the moment you actually see the buffer contents of
> the buffer on screen, I think you could screencast your repro and use
> the recorded video to make that measurement (unless screencasting
> eliminates the problem, too...).
Its weird: screencast recording doesn't stop the problem from happening
live, but it fails to capture how it looks.
I've recorded a half dozen of such screencasts, and I think only one of
them managed to capture the desynchronization between the title bar and
the window update. The rest look like there is no delay.
But this one occurrence you can see here (attempt #4, around 00:00:06):
https://a.uguu.se/Oopgcemf.webm
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
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Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2023 15:54:03 +0000
From: Gregory Heytings <gregory@HIDDEN>
To: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
In-Reply-To: <f31ae245-9792-f7ef-6475-e082abf97257@HIDDEN>
Message-ID: <8716b41c97839d6a8b87@HIDDEN>
References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
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<cd181871-993e-d472-7e24-dc7f85916782@HIDDEN>
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>>> To avoid this measurement affecting the delay itself, as we saw with
>>> printfs and trace-redisplay, the timings should be sent via pipe to a
>>> file, not to the screen.
>>
>> If they indeed don't affect the measurement when they are sent to a
>> file, it is probably possible to sent them to the screen without
>> affecting the measurement, by calling 'tail -f' on the file in which
>> they are recorded in another terminal.
>
> Yes, I suppose this can work, if the new terminal is positioned far away
> from Emacs's window.
>
> None of the new proposed tests depend on me being able to monitor the
> output in real time, though.
>
If you want to measure the latency between the moment an XFlush is issued
by Emacs and the moment you actually see the buffer contents of the buffer
on screen, I think you could screencast your repro and use the recorded
video to make that measurement (unless screencasting eliminates the
problem, too...).
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
Full text available.
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Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
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To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
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On 26/02/2023 17:00, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2023 16:42:43 +0200
>> Cc: luangruo@HIDDEN, 61667 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, gregory@HIDDEN
>> From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
>>
>> On 26/02/2023 15:44, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>>> from the time Emacs starts and until Emacs sends the
>>> XFlush to the X server
>>
>> From the time I press 'a', right? Not from the time Emacs start.
>
> I don't think it matters. From the start is easier, I think.
Emacs itself takes around a second to start. Then there is time between
that and me hitting 'a' which depends on the human reflexes (the latency
there should be on the order of 100ms too). If I don't wait for the
startup to finish before pressing 'a', then the problem doesn't show up
either, so I do have to wait.
So measuring from Emacs start might give pretty unreliable numbers. But
anyway, let's try measuring something, and I'll see if I can hit buttons
with predictable timings.
Information forwarded
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bug#61667; Package emacs.
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Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
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To: Gregory Heytings <gregory@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
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From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
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On 26/02/2023 16:44, Gregory Heytings wrote:
>
>>
>> To avoid this measurement affecting the delay itself, as we saw with
>> printfs and trace-redisplay, the timings should be sent via pipe to a
>> file, not to the screen.
>>
>
> If they indeed don't affect the measurement when they are sent to a
> file, it is probably possible to sent them to the screen without
> affecting the measurement, by calling 'tail -f' on the file in which
> they are recorded in another terminal.
Yes, I suppose this can work, if the new terminal is positioned far away
from Emacs's window.
None of the new proposed tests depend on me being able to monitor the
output in real time, though.
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
Full text available.
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From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
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Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
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> Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2023 16:42:43 +0200
> Cc: luangruo@HIDDEN, 61667 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, gregory@HIDDEN
> From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
>
> On 26/02/2023 15:44, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > from the time Emacs starts and until Emacs sends the
> > XFlush to the X server
>
> From the time I press 'a', right? Not from the time Emacs start.
I don't think it matters. From the start is easier, I think.
> > as we saw with
> printfs and trace-redisplay, the timings should be sent via pipe to a
> file, not to the screen.
>
> I can redirect those to a file with 2>err.log, that worked before.
Yes, that will also work.
Information forwarded
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bug#61667; Package emacs.
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Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2023 14:44:45 +0000
From: Gregory Heytings <gregory@HIDDEN>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
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>
> To avoid this measurement affecting the delay itself, as we saw with
> printfs and trace-redisplay, the timings should be sent via pipe to a
> file, not to the screen.
>
If they indeed don't affect the measurement when they are sent to a file,
it is probably possible to sent them to the screen without affecting the
measurement, by calling 'tail -f' on the file in which they are recorded
in another terminal.
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
Full text available.
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Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
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To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
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From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
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On 26/02/2023 15:44, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> from the time Emacs starts and until Emacs sends the
> XFlush to the X server
From the time I press 'a', right? Not from the time Emacs start.
> as we saw with
printfs and trace-redisplay, the timings should be sent via pipe to a
file, not to the screen.
I can redirect those to a file with 2>err.log, that worked before.
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
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Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
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> Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2023 15:21:40 +0200
> Cc: luangruo@HIDDEN, 61667 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, gregory@HIDDEN
> From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
>
> So I mean the delay between me either
>
> - Pressing 'a' in one scenario (the 'emacs -Q ...' one)
> - Or pressing 'C-x b xas RET' (using Ido completion with my config)
>
> and the buffer's text being displayed.
OK, thanks.
So maybe to make it crystal clear this is not an Emacs problem, we
should measure the time taken by these two scenarios, with and without
double buffering, from the time Emacs starts and until Emacs sends the
XFlush to the X server. If the times are approximately the same, and
don't go anywhere near the delays you see, then the delay is not our
problem.
Po Lu, can you help Dmitry identify the place where we call XFlush
after we finish updating the frame and add such a code there? To
avoid this measurement affecting the delay itself, as we saw with
printfs and trace-redisplay, the timings should be sent via pipe to a
file, not to the screen.
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
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Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
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To: Gregory Heytings <gregory@HIDDEN>
References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
<25c48260-2edc-f062-8fef-52ff2fdd22e3@HIDDEN>
<96b742a05dea855f9636@HIDDEN>
<853eca8f-5850-dd73-7601-4fad92613ab9@HIDDEN>
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<628d9354-e334-0ad5-39c8-91081a5e9238@HIDDEN>
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From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
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On 26/02/2023 15:15, Gregory Heytings wrote:
>
>>> . "emacs -Q", then type 'a' (which visits a file?)
>>> . "emacs" with your configuration, then type "C-x b", which visits a
>>> file
>>>
>>> In both cases, you see a delay before the display is updated, right?
>>
>> About 1 in 5-10 tries the delay is high enough to be noticeable
>> (200-300ms with -Q and up to 1-2 seconds with my config).
>>
>
> What happens if instead of your recipe you use these ones
>
> emacs -Q --eval "(tool-bar-mode -1)" --eval "(menu-bar-mode -1)" --eval
> "(scroll-bar-mode -1)" --eval "(global-set-key \"a\" (lambda ()
> (interactive) (message "a pressed!") (find-file \"test.c\")))"
>
> emacs -Q --eval "(tool-bar-mode -1)" --eval "(menu-bar-mode -1)" --eval
> "(scroll-bar-mode -1)" --eval "(global-set-key \"a\" (lambda ()
> (interactive) (find-file \"test.c\") (message "file loaded!")))"
>
> ?
Both of these make the problem go away, too.
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
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Message-ID: <41c5671e-e9c3-33f3-6c9c-8a1a6fc527fb@HIDDEN>
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2023 15:21:40 +0200
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Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
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To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
<96b742a05dea855f9636@HIDDEN>
<853eca8f-5850-dd73-7601-4fad92613ab9@HIDDEN>
<0a7313f0-765c-aeca-ae50-6d8adbfb04ed@HIDDEN>
<5002b0b34b1067395698@HIDDEN>
<628d9354-e334-0ad5-39c8-91081a5e9238@HIDDEN>
<5002b0b34b1213122157@HIDDEN>
<cd181871-993e-d472-7e24-dc7f85916782@HIDDEN>
<5002b0b34b7a73483fe3@HIDDEN> <5002b0b34b0ee4220ba5@HIDDEN>
<20e46a69-8b22-65b6-f725-4ab5e5ec41f0@HIDDEN>
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From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
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On 26/02/2023 14:31, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2023 14:23:49 +0200
>> Cc:luangruo@HIDDEN,61667 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,gregory@HIDDEN
>> From: Dmitry Gutov<dgutov@HIDDEN>
>>
>> On 26/02/2023 14:13, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>>> Thanks, but I still need to insist on more clarity, if possible.
>>>
>>> You say "disappears", in quotes, presumably to say that it's still
>>> present but hard to notice? And before that, you say the delay is
>>> always physically present?
>> The delay is distance in time. It can't really be zero -- that's just
>> physics: the OS has to process the keypress, Emacs has to read the file,
>> run the major mode function, etc.
>>
>> The problem is when that delay becomes high enough to notice with a
>> naked eye.
> And that happens even if the frame title is not changed?
No.
Here are all the ways we have found that make the problem go away:
--eval "(modify-frame-parameters nil '((inhibit-double-buffering . t)))"
--eval "(setq frame-title-format \"foo bar foo\")"
--eval "(modify-frame-parameters nil '((undecorated . t)))"
When any of these arguments is passed to Emacs, the problem does not
reproduce anymore.
> IOW, is time interval between pressing RET at the end of the command
> which starts Emacs and the time the text area of the window shows the
> file's text -- is this time interval the same whether the frames title
> changes or not?
The command doesn't trigger Emacs to visit a file, though.
So I mean the delay between me either
- Pressing 'a' in one scenario (the 'emacs -Q ...' one)
- Or pressing 'C-x b xas RET' (using Ido completion with my config)
and the buffer's text being displayed.
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
Full text available.
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Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2023 13:15:23 +0000
From: Gregory Heytings <gregory@HIDDEN>
To: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
In-Reply-To: <d60f9b7f-fcfa-3f52-b848-ef04d259df14@HIDDEN>
Message-ID: <8716b41c9798c19d35d9@HIDDEN>
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>> . "emacs -Q", then type 'a' (which visits a file?)
>> . "emacs" with your configuration, then type "C-x b", which visits a file
>>
>> In both cases, you see a delay before the display is updated, right?
>
> About 1 in 5-10 tries the delay is high enough to be noticeable
> (200-300ms with -Q and up to 1-2 seconds with my config).
>
What happens if instead of your recipe you use these ones
emacs -Q --eval "(tool-bar-mode -1)" --eval "(menu-bar-mode -1)" --eval "(scroll-bar-mode -1)" --eval "(global-set-key \"a\" (lambda () (interactive) (message "a pressed!") (find-file \"test.c\")))"
emacs -Q --eval "(tool-bar-mode -1)" --eval "(menu-bar-mode -1)" --eval "(scroll-bar-mode -1)" --eval "(global-set-key \"a\" (lambda () (interactive) (find-file \"test.c\") (message "file loaded!")))"
?
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
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Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2023 14:31:06 +0200
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From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
To: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <2d674d22-fe8c-b7a3-115f-515a8a37b7e5@HIDDEN> (message from
Dmitry Gutov on Sun, 26 Feb 2023 14:23:49 +0200)
Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
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> Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2023 14:23:49 +0200
> Cc: luangruo@HIDDEN, 61667 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, gregory@HIDDEN
> From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
>
> On 26/02/2023 14:13, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > Thanks, but I still need to insist on more clarity, if possible.
> >
> > You say "disappears", in quotes, presumably to say that it's still
> > present but hard to notice? And before that, you say the delay is
> > always physically present?
>
> The delay is distance in time. It can't really be zero -- that's just
> physics: the OS has to process the keypress, Emacs has to read the file,
> run the major mode function, etc.
>
> The problem is when that delay becomes high enough to notice with a
> naked eye.
And that happens even if the frame title is not changed?
IOW, is time interval between pressing RET at the end of the command
which starts Emacs and the time the text area of the window shows the
file's text -- is this time interval the same whether the frames title
changes or not?
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
Full text available.
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Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
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To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
<25c48260-2edc-f062-8fef-52ff2fdd22e3@HIDDEN>
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<0a7313f0-765c-aeca-ae50-6d8adbfb04ed@HIDDEN>
<5002b0b34b1067395698@HIDDEN>
<628d9354-e334-0ad5-39c8-91081a5e9238@HIDDEN>
<5002b0b34b1213122157@HIDDEN>
<cd181871-993e-d472-7e24-dc7f85916782@HIDDEN>
<5002b0b34b7a73483fe3@HIDDEN> <5002b0b34b0ee4220ba5@HIDDEN>
<20e46a69-8b22-65b6-f725-4ab5e5ec41f0@HIDDEN>
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<d60f9b7f-fcfa-3f52-b848-ef04d259df14@HIDDEN> <83356sk4jk.fsf@HIDDEN>
From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
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On 26/02/2023 14:13, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> Thanks, but I still need to insist on more clarity, if possible.
>
> You say "disappears", in quotes, presumably to say that it's still
> present but hard to notice? And before that, you say the delay is
> always physically present?
The delay is distance in time. It can't really be zero -- that's just
physics: the OS has to process the keypress, Emacs has to read the file,
run the major mode function, etc.
The problem is when that delay becomes high enough to notice with a
naked eye.
> If the delay does not actually disappear,
> without any quotes, and is always present, then the frame's title and
> double-buffering just make it easier to detect the delay, but don't
> affect the delay itself.
No, that's not the issue.
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
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Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
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To: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>
References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
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<25c48260-2edc-f062-8fef-52ff2fdd22e3@HIDDEN>
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<0a7313f0-765c-aeca-ae50-6d8adbfb04ed@HIDDEN>
<5002b0b34b1067395698@HIDDEN>
<628d9354-e334-0ad5-39c8-91081a5e9238@HIDDEN>
<5002b0b34b1213122157@HIDDEN>
<cd181871-993e-d472-7e24-dc7f85916782@HIDDEN>
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From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
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On 26/02/2023 04:39, Po Lu wrote:
> Dmitry Gutov<dgutov@HIDDEN> writes:
>
>> The problem, indeed, could show up if the delay between me pressing
>> 'a' and the buffer being displayed could still reach 200-300ms even
>> with constant title bar. But it doesn't.
> Maybe the damage to Mutter's frame window is what is causing the
> confusion. Since the buffer swap happens immediately after the title is
> set, that seems plausible.
>
> What happens with an undecorated frame?
--eval "(modify-frame-parameters nil '((undecorated . t)))"
does fix the problem, like the other two methods.
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
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Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
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> Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2023 13:59:34 +0200
> Cc: gregory@HIDDEN, luangruo@HIDDEN, 61667 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
>
> > . "emacs -Q", then type 'a' (which visits a file?)
> > . "emacs" with your configuration, then type "C-x b", which visits a
> > file
> >
> > In both cases, you see a delay before the display is updated, right?
>
> About 1 in 5-10 tries the delay is high enough to be noticeable
> (200-300ms with -Q and up to 1-2 seconds with my config).
>
> > So what effect, if any, does the changing vs fixed frame title have on
> > each of these two use cases?
>
> The delay (which is, physically, always present) becomes never nigh
> enough to be noticeable.
>
> Or, in simple terms, disappears.
>
> > And what effect does disabling
> > double-buffering have on each of these two cases?
>
> Same effect: delay "disappears".
Thanks, but I still need to insist on more clarity, if possible.
You say "disappears", in quotes, presumably to say that it's still
present but hard to notice? And before that, you say the delay is
always physically present? If the delay does not actually disappear,
without any quotes, and is always present, then the frame's title and
double-buffering just make it easier to detect the delay, but don't
affect the delay itself.
I think we must have a clear understanding whether the delay
disappears or just becomes hard to detect.
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
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Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2023 13:59:34 +0200
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Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
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To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
<8afe34f2-eeea-3be8-82ef-576a115beb6d@HIDDEN>
<96b742a05da174ece02e@HIDDEN>
<25c48260-2edc-f062-8fef-52ff2fdd22e3@HIDDEN>
<96b742a05dea855f9636@HIDDEN>
<853eca8f-5850-dd73-7601-4fad92613ab9@HIDDEN>
<0a7313f0-765c-aeca-ae50-6d8adbfb04ed@HIDDEN>
<5002b0b34b1067395698@HIDDEN>
<628d9354-e334-0ad5-39c8-91081a5e9238@HIDDEN>
<5002b0b34b1213122157@HIDDEN>
<cd181871-993e-d472-7e24-dc7f85916782@HIDDEN>
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<ab4b398f-0cf6-1a67-0eb0-a2b590b2be50@HIDDEN>
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<1dafb35c-657c-037f-8244-4568b4e22fcd@HIDDEN>
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<6f161919-7ee4-e461-e688-797c76fa6d74@HIDDEN> <83fsatj57m.fsf@HIDDEN>
From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
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On 26/02/2023 08:44, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> Sorry, I'm still confused. Let me try to explain what I understand
> and what confuses me.
>
> There are two use cases where you see the problem:
>
> . "emacs -Q", then type 'a' (which visits a file?)
> . "emacs" with your configuration, then type "C-x b", which visits a
> file
>
> In both cases, you see a delay before the display is updated, right?
About 1 in 5-10 tries the delay is high enough to be noticeable
(200-300ms with -Q and up to 1-2 seconds with my config).
> So what effect, if any, does the changing vs fixed frame title have on
> each of these two use cases?
The delay (which is, physically, always present) becomes never nigh
enough to be noticeable.
Or, in simple terms, disappears.
> And what effect does disabling
> double-buffering have on each of these two cases?
Same effect: delay "disappears".
> AFAIR, you originally said that when the title is not updated, the
> problem disappears.
Yes.
> Then you said that the problem does NOT disappear
> when the title is fixed, but having the title change makes it easier
> to realize that the delay exists.
I only said (or meant to say) that having the title change made it
easier to understand that there definitely *is* a problem. Because
otherwise I could attribute the delay to various sources of latency we
could experience: reading from disk (or network, whatever), triggering a
garbage collection, etc. But since the title changes, the buffer must
already be read and visited, and yet it's not displayed in the frame for
some time.
> Now you are saying something else.
> This is what confuses me: what is the effect of the changing frame
> title on the above two cases?
Delay disappears.
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
Full text available.
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From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
To: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
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Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
<d90b9687-43da-6b4c-0f14-39e9035de54f@HIDDEN>
<e737b605e971af0f0303@HIDDEN>
<8afe34f2-eeea-3be8-82ef-576a115beb6d@HIDDEN>
<96b742a05da174ece02e@HIDDEN>
<25c48260-2edc-f062-8fef-52ff2fdd22e3@HIDDEN>
<96b742a05dea855f9636@HIDDEN>
<853eca8f-5850-dd73-7601-4fad92613ab9@HIDDEN>
<0a7313f0-765c-aeca-ae50-6d8adbfb04ed@HIDDEN>
<5002b0b34b1067395698@HIDDEN>
<628d9354-e334-0ad5-39c8-91081a5e9238@HIDDEN>
<5002b0b34b1213122157@HIDDEN>
<cd181871-993e-d472-7e24-dc7f85916782@HIDDEN>
<5002b0b34b7a73483fe3@HIDDEN> <5002b0b34b0ee4220ba5@HIDDEN>
<20e46a69-8b22-65b6-f725-4ab5e5ec41f0@HIDDEN>
<5002b0b34bd381f6d1f9@HIDDEN>
<c1cb4dbd-a25b-b46c-8ac5-c421a213ee3b@HIDDEN>
<8716b41c97734e78145e@HIDDEN>
<ab4b398f-0cf6-1a67-0eb0-a2b590b2be50@HIDDEN>
<8716b41c9757d7e81bd2@HIDDEN>
<1dafb35c-657c-037f-8244-4568b4e22fcd@HIDDEN>
<8716b41c9708333e6bdb@HIDDEN>
<6f161919-7ee4-e461-e688-797c76fa6d74@HIDDEN>
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> Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2023 04:00:15 +0200
> Cc: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>, 61667 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
> From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
>
> On 26/02/2023 03:53, Gregory Heytings wrote:
> >
> >>> I mean: an MRE to reproduce the multi-second delay, which makes the
> >>> bug apparent even without a title bar.
> >>
> >> The delay is multi-second only with my personal config, correct, but I
> >> haven't been able to reproduce the problem with unchanging title bar,
> >> or without a title bar.
> >>
> >
> > Now I'm confused. I understood that you were able to reproduce the
> > multi-second delay with your config with an constant title bar.
>
> No, the constant title bar is what fixed it even with my config. Even
> the "multi-second delay" which potentially could have been a different
> problem (but it wasn't).
>
> > E.g. you said "But whether the title changes or not, I can easily see
> the delay between me pressing 'a' and the contents of the window being
> updated. Or its absence." I'm probably missing something.
>
> "Or its absence", yes.
>
> This was in response to Po's message:
>
> But in this case the frame title will never change, so no problem can
> show up.
>
> The problem, indeed, could show up if the delay between me pressing 'a'
> and the buffer being displayed could still reach 200-300ms even with
> constant title bar. But it doesn't.
Sorry, I'm still confused. Let me try to explain what I understand
and what confuses me.
There are two use cases where you see the problem:
. "emacs -Q", then type 'a' (which visits a file?)
. "emacs" with your configuration, then type "C-x b", which visits a
file
In both cases, you see a delay before the display is updated, right?
So what effect, if any, does the changing vs fixed frame title have on
each of these two use cases? And what effect does disabling
double-buffering have on each of these two cases?
AFAIR, you originally said that when the title is not updated, the
problem disappears. Then you said that the problem does NOT disappear
when the title is fixed, but having the title change makes it easier
to realize that the delay exists. Now you are saying something else.
This is what confuses me: what is the effect of the changing frame
title on the above two cases?
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
Full text available.
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From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
To: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <ab4b398f-0cf6-1a67-0eb0-a2b590b2be50@HIDDEN> (message from
Dmitry Gutov on Sun, 26 Feb 2023 02:56:32 +0200)
Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
<83y1orrolh.fsf@HIDDEN> <a52dc218-a622-5bac-4728-3b10f3536a40@HIDDEN>
<83sfeyswdw.fsf@HIDDEN> <877cwactgv.fsf@HIDDEN> <83mt55sxli.fsf@HIDDEN>
<d90b9687-43da-6b4c-0f14-39e9035de54f@HIDDEN>
<e737b605e971af0f0303@HIDDEN>
<8afe34f2-eeea-3be8-82ef-576a115beb6d@HIDDEN>
<96b742a05da174ece02e@HIDDEN>
<25c48260-2edc-f062-8fef-52ff2fdd22e3@HIDDEN>
<96b742a05dea855f9636@HIDDEN>
<853eca8f-5850-dd73-7601-4fad92613ab9@HIDDEN>
<0a7313f0-765c-aeca-ae50-6d8adbfb04ed@HIDDEN>
<5002b0b34b1067395698@HIDDEN>
<628d9354-e334-0ad5-39c8-91081a5e9238@HIDDEN>
<5002b0b34b1213122157@HIDDEN>
<cd181871-993e-d472-7e24-dc7f85916782@HIDDEN>
<5002b0b34b7a73483fe3@HIDDEN> <5002b0b34b0ee4220ba5@HIDDEN>
<20e46a69-8b22-65b6-f725-4ab5e5ec41f0@HIDDEN>
<5002b0b34bd381f6d1f9@HIDDEN>
<c1cb4dbd-a25b-b46c-8ac5-c421a213ee3b@HIDDEN>
<8716b41c97734e78145e@HIDDEN>
<ab4b398f-0cf6-1a67-0eb0-a2b590b2be50@HIDDEN>
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> Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2023 02:56:32 +0200
> Cc: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>, 61667 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
> From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
>
> On 26/02/2023 02:41, Gregory Heytings wrote:
> > I think it's now clear that there is a bug in GNOME. The main
> > difference between running fullscreen and non-fullscreen in this context
> > is that the compositor is bypassed. This is mainly for (fullscreen)
> > games, who have direct access to the screen, which is more performant.
>
> Again, when reproduction depends on Emacs changing the title bar,
> running it in a mode without the title bar might not be the best way to
> verify something.
Didn't you say that the delay exists regardless of the title issue,
and that the title issue just makes the delay easier to spot? Or what
am I missing?
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
Full text available.
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From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>
To: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
In-Reply-To: <6f161919-7ee4-e461-e688-797c76fa6d74@HIDDEN> (Dmitry Gutov's
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References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
<96b742a05da174ece02e@HIDDEN>
<25c48260-2edc-f062-8fef-52ff2fdd22e3@HIDDEN>
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<628d9354-e334-0ad5-39c8-91081a5e9238@HIDDEN>
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Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2023 10:39:33 +0800
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Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN> writes:
> The problem, indeed, could show up if the delay between me pressing
> 'a' and the buffer being displayed could still reach 200-300ms even
> with constant title bar. But it doesn't.
Maybe the damage to Mutter's frame window is what is causing the
confusion. Since the buffer swap happens immediately after the title is
set, that seems plausible.
What happens with an undecorated frame?
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
Full text available.
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Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
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To: Gregory Heytings <gregory@HIDDEN>
References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
<d90b9687-43da-6b4c-0f14-39e9035de54f@HIDDEN>
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<96b742a05dea855f9636@HIDDEN>
<853eca8f-5850-dd73-7601-4fad92613ab9@HIDDEN>
<0a7313f0-765c-aeca-ae50-6d8adbfb04ed@HIDDEN>
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<1dafb35c-657c-037f-8244-4568b4e22fcd@HIDDEN>
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From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
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On 26/02/2023 03:53, Gregory Heytings wrote:
>
>>> I mean: an MRE to reproduce the multi-second delay, which makes the
>>> bug apparent even without a title bar.
>>
>> The delay is multi-second only with my personal config, correct, but I
>> haven't been able to reproduce the problem with unchanging title bar,
>> or without a title bar.
>>
>
> Now I'm confused. I understood that you were able to reproduce the
> multi-second delay with your config with an constant title bar.
No, the constant title bar is what fixed it even with my config. Even
the "multi-second delay" which potentially could have been a different
problem (but it wasn't).
> E.g. you said "But whether the title changes or not, I can easily see
the delay between me pressing 'a' and the contents of the window being
updated. Or its absence." I'm probably missing something.
"Or its absence", yes.
This was in response to Po's message:
But in this case the frame title will never change, so no problem can
show up.
The problem, indeed, could show up if the delay between me pressing 'a'
and the buffer being displayed could still reach 200-300ms even with
constant title bar. But it doesn't.
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
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Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2023 01:53:33 +0000
From: Gregory Heytings <gregory@HIDDEN>
To: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
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>> I mean: an MRE to reproduce the multi-second delay, which makes the bug
>> apparent even without a title bar.
>
> The delay is multi-second only with my personal config, correct, but I
> haven't been able to reproduce the problem with unchanging title bar, or
> without a title bar.
>
Now I'm confused. I understood that you were able to reproduce the
multi-second delay with your config with an constant title bar. E.g. you
said "But whether the title changes or not, I can easily see the delay
between me pressing 'a' and the contents of the window being updated. Or
its absence." I'm probably missing something.
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bug#61667; Package emacs.
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Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2023 03:36:57 +0200
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Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
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To: Gregory Heytings <gregory@HIDDEN>
References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
<83sfeyswdw.fsf@HIDDEN> <877cwactgv.fsf@HIDDEN> <83mt55sxli.fsf@HIDDEN>
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From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
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On 26/02/2023 03:02, Gregory Heytings wrote:
>
>>> I think it's now clear that there is a bug in GNOME. The main
>>> difference between running fullscreen and non-fullscreen in this
>>> context is that the compositor is bypassed. This is mainly for
>>> (fullscreen) games, who have direct access to the screen, which is
>>> more performant.
>>
>> Again, when reproduction depends on Emacs changing the title bar,
>> running it in a mode without the title bar might not be the best way
>> to verify something.
>>
>
> Hmmm... but you said (to Eli) that the title bar in fact was not an
> essential element of the recipe? Or did I misunderstand something?
The title bar that has the buffer name in it (and thus has to be updated
when a buffer is visited), is necessary to reproduce the problem.
I just said that an unchanging title bar does not bar me from being able
to note the lack of the problem (because I originally described the
problem as a delay between the title bar update and the frame refresh).
>>> If you manage to create a MRE without your full config, you could
>>> file a bug report and point to that difference between fullscreen and
>>> non-fullscreen behavior.
>>
>> My MRE uses '-Q', I've posted it here recently (23/02/2023, 18:46).
>>
>
> I mean: an MRE to reproduce the multi-second delay, which makes the bug
> apparent even without a title bar.
The delay is multi-second only with my personal config, correct, but I
haven't been able to reproduce the problem with unchanging title bar, or
without a title bar.
>> You said you couldn't reproduce it, though. Different version of
>> GNOME, perhaps?
>>
>
> No, I don't use GNOME, what I meant it that I could not reproduce it on
> any of the other window managers that are installed on my computer.
> Sorry if that was unclear.
I see, thank you.
For anybody else who might want to try with GNOME, though, my installed
version is 43.1 (one that comes with the latest Ubuntu release).
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
Full text available.
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Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2023 01:02:18 +0000
From: Gregory Heytings <gregory@HIDDEN>
To: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
In-Reply-To: <ab4b398f-0cf6-1a67-0eb0-a2b590b2be50@HIDDEN>
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References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
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--BVSmh9yD3i
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>> I think it's now clear that there is a bug in GNOME.=C2=A0 The main=20
>> difference between running fullscreen and non-fullscreen in this=20
>> context is that the compositor is bypassed.=C2=A0 This is mainly for=20
>> (fullscreen) games, who have direct access to the screen, which is more=
=20
>> performant.
>
> Again, when reproduction depends on Emacs changing the title bar,=20
> running it in a mode without the title bar might not be the best way to=
=20
> verify something.
>
Hmmm... but you said (to Eli) that the title bar in fact was not an=20
essential element of the recipe? Or did I misunderstand something?
>> If you manage to create a MRE without your full config, you could file=
=20
>> a bug report and point to that difference between fullscreen and=20
>> non-fullscreen behavior.
>
> My MRE uses '-Q', I've posted it here recently (23/02/2023, 18:46).
>
I mean: an MRE to reproduce the multi-second delay, which makes the bug=20
apparent even without a title bar.
>
> You said you couldn't reproduce it, though. Different version of GNOME,=
=20
> perhaps?
>
No, I don't use GNOME, what I meant it that I could not reproduce it on=20
any of the other window managers that are installed on my computer.=20
Sorry if that was unclear.
--BVSmh9yD3i--
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bug#61667; Package emacs.
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Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2023 02:56:32 +0200
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Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
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To: Gregory Heytings <gregory@HIDDEN>
References: <04d7cb31-684c-07c0-ee7b-503514fc1a85@HIDDEN>
<83y1orrolh.fsf@HIDDEN> <a52dc218-a622-5bac-4728-3b10f3536a40@HIDDEN>
<83sfeyswdw.fsf@HIDDEN> <877cwactgv.fsf@HIDDEN> <83mt55sxli.fsf@HIDDEN>
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From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
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On 26/02/2023 02:41, Gregory Heytings wrote:
> I think it's now clear that there is a bug in GNOME. The main
> difference between running fullscreen and non-fullscreen in this context
> is that the compositor is bypassed. This is mainly for (fullscreen)
> games, who have direct access to the screen, which is more performant.
Again, when reproduction depends on Emacs changing the title bar,
running it in a mode without the title bar might not be the best way to
verify something.
> If you manage to create a MRE without your full config, you could file a
> bug report and point to that difference between fullscreen and
> non-fullscreen behavior.
My MRE uses '-Q', I've posted it here recently (23/02/2023, 18:46).
You said you couldn't reproduce it, though. Different version of GNOME,
perhaps?
Information forwarded
to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#61667; Package emacs.
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Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2023 00:41:59 +0000
From: Gregory Heytings <gregory@HIDDEN>
To: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
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>> So this clearly points to a bug in the way GNOME handles the Emacs=20
>> frame. There's one last thing you could try: under GNOME, try the same=
=20
>> experiment, but with Emacs fullscreen.=C2=A0 I've read that GNOME=20
>> automatically disables its compositor when an app is fullscreen, but=20
>> I'm not 100% sure that's the case.
>
> I am unable to reproduce this with Emacs fullscreen.
>
> But fullscreen mode removes the window chrome, including the titlebar,=20
> so that might have something to do with it.
>
I think it's now clear that there is a bug in GNOME. The main difference=
=20
between running fullscreen and non-fullscreen in this context is that the=
=20
compositor is bypassed. This is mainly for (fullscreen) games, who have=20
direct access to the screen, which is more performant. If you manage to=20
create a MRE without your full config, you could file a bug report and=20
point to that difference between fullscreen and non-fullscreen behavior.
--BfTQW4gjNz--
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to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
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Subject: Re: bug#61667: 29.0.60; Failure to redisplay
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On 25/02/2023 07:35, Po Lu wrote:
> I now think I know an easy way to test this theory for sure. Create
> another frame, place it so that it is above the frame you are trying to
> test, set its Z group to above and its alpha-background parameter to
> 0.9, run some command that updates that frame once per second, and place
> it above the first frame.
>
> Then, see if the text inserted appears only once an update happens to
> the other frame. To be extra sure, run the other frame in another Emacs
> process.
OK, here's what I did: set frame parameters as you described and added a
timer which inserts a character at the end of the buffer one per second.
Then I launched a separate Emacs and positioned it entirely "below" the
first one (fully covered, aside from the transparency effect). And
started typing in it.
Both frames were updated as expected. And the top one continued to be
updated with character insertions even when I paused typing in the
bottom one.
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