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Subject: bug#61684: can't compose 'with-patch' with 'with-source'
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From: Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN>
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2023 13:08:41 -0500
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Hi,
Given 'with-source' discards any patch from the original source, I thought
I could at least add them back via 'with-patch', but it appears this
does not work:
--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
scheme@(gnu packages jami)> (options->transformation
`((with-source . "libjami@HIDDEN=/home/maxim/src/jami/jami-20230220.0.tar.gz")
(with-patch . ,(string-append
"libjami=" (search-patch
"jami-disable-integration-tests.patch")))))
$6 = #<procedure 7f2cd01a97e0 at guix/transformations.scm:1010:2 (obj)>
scheme@(gnu packages jami)> ($6 libjami)
$7 = #<package libjami@HIDDEN guix/transformations.scm:1002 7f2ccc8386e0>
scheme@(gnu packages jami)> (package-source $7)
$8 = #<<downloaded-file> uri: "/home/maxim/src/jami/jami-20230220.0.tar.gz" recursive?: #t>
scheme@(gnu packages jami)>
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
The downloaded-file resulting package source has lost the patch, and no
error got produced, leaving the user to discover this limitation by
themselves.
--
Thanks,
Maxim
Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.505 (Entity 5.505) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN From: help-debbugs@HIDDEN (GNU bug Tracking System) To: Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN> Subject: bug#61684: Acknowledgement (can't compose 'with-patch' with 'with-source') Message-ID: <handler.61684.B.16770029314301.ack <at> debbugs.gnu.org> References: <87mt56gac6.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Gnu-PR-Message: ack 61684 X-Gnu-PR-Package: guix Reply-To: 61684 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2023 18:09:02 +0000 Thank you for filing a new bug report with debbugs.gnu.org. This is an automatically generated reply to let you know your message has been received. Your message is being forwarded to the package maintainers and other interested parties for their attention; they will reply in due course. Your message has been sent to the package maintainer(s): bug-guix@HIDDEN If you wish to submit further information on this problem, please send it to 61684 <at> debbugs.gnu.org. Please do not send mail to help-debbugs@HIDDEN unless you wish to report a problem with the Bug-tracking system. --=20 61684: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D61684 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@HIDDEN with problems
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
Subject: bug#61684: can't compose 'with-patch' with 'with-source'
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From: Simon Tournier <zimon.toutoune@HIDDEN>
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Hi Maxim,
On Tue, 21 Feb 2023 at 13:08, Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN> wrote:
> Given 'with-source' discards any patch from the original source, I thought
> I could at least add them back via 'with-patch', but it appears this
> does not work:
I remember some headaches with this thread [1]. :-)
1: <https://yhetil.org/guix/8635qeaegx.fsf@HIDDEN>
>
> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
> scheme@(gnu packages jami)> (options->transformation
> `((with-source . "libjami@HIDDEN=/home/maxim/src/jami/jami-20230220.0.tar.gz")
> (with-patch . ,(string-append
> "libjami=" (search-patch
> "jami-disable-integration-tests.patch")))))
> $6 = #<procedure 7f2cd01a97e0 at guix/transformations.scm:1010:2 (obj)>
> scheme@(gnu packages jami)> ($6 libjami)
> $7 = #<package libjami@HIDDEN guix/transformations.scm:1002 7f2ccc8386e0>
> scheme@(gnu packages jami)> (package-source $7)
> $8 = #<<downloaded-file> uri: "/home/maxim/src/jami/jami-20230220.0.tar.gz" recursive?: #t>
> scheme@(gnu packages jami)>
> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
>
> The downloaded-file resulting package source has lost the patch, and no
> error got produced, leaving the user to discover this limitation by
> themselves.
Well, it is probably unrelated because I guess the transformation makes
sense here but indeed you can have bad surprise if the transformation
does not make sense and then silently ignored.
Well, I have never finished my attempt to raise more information about
the transformation because the code about the transformation is hard to
follow, from my point of view. Anyway!
Thanks for having open this ticket. :-) Maybe with-source and
with-patch are the first incremental change. ;-)
Cheers,
simon
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Subject: bug#61684: can't compose 'with-patch' with 'with-source'
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Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2023 15:08:48 +0100
In-Reply-To: <87mt56gac6.fsf@HIDDEN> (Maxim Cournoyer's message of "Tue, 21
Feb 2023 13:08:41 -0500")
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Hi Maxim,
Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN> skribis:
> Given 'with-source' discards any patch from the original source, I thought
> I could at least add them back via 'with-patch', but it appears this
> does not work:
>
> scheme@(gnu packages jami)> (options->transformation=20
> `((with-source . "libjami@HIDDEN=3D/home=
/maxim/src/jami/jami-20230220.0.tar.gz")
> (with-patch . ,(string-append=20
> "libjami=3D" (search-patch=
=20
> "jami-disable-=
integration-tests.patch")))))
> $6 =3D #<procedure 7f2cd01a97e0 at guix/transformations.scm:1010:2 (obj)>
> scheme@(gnu packages jami)> ($6 libjami)
> $7 =3D #<package libjami@HIDDEN guix/transformations.scm:1002 7f2ccc8=
386e0>
> scheme@(gnu packages jami)> (package-source $7)
> $8 =3D #<<downloaded-file> uri: "/home/maxim/src/jami/jami-20230220.0.tar=
.gz" recursive?: #t>
> scheme@(gnu packages jami)>
>
> The downloaded-file resulting package source has lost the patch, and no
> error got produced, leaving the user to discover this limitation by
> themselves.
The order of options matters; in this case, you need to do it the other
way around:
--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
scheme@(guile-user)> (options->transformation '((with-patch . "jami=3D/tmp/=
t.patch")
(with-source . "jami=3Dhttp://example.org/foo.tar.gz")))
$18 =3D #<procedure 7f7e6b1fd0c0 at guix/transformations.scm:1010:2 (obj)>
scheme@(guile-user)> ($18 jami)
$19 =3D #<package jami@HIDDEN guix/transformations.scm:1002 7f7e6b1602c=
0>
scheme@(guile-user)> (package-source $19)
$20 =3D #<<computed-file> name: "jami-20230206.0-source" gexp: #<gexp guix=
/transformations.scm:688:19 7f7e6b6c8d50> guile: #f options: (#:local-build=
? #t)>
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
The <computed-file> bit comes from the =E2=80=98with-patch=E2=80=99 transfo=
rmation, to
apply the patch to the <downloaded-file>.
If you do it the other way around, the effect of =E2=80=98with-patch=E2=80=
=99 is
canceled by that of =E2=80=98with-source=E2=80=99, which does not preserve =
patches. So
strictly speaking, both options had an effect, but they were
contradictory.
Note that ordering is =E2=80=9Cspecified=E2=80=9D, notably with the test ad=
ded in
0f024554e63a49e20c2a7a67e928073c266bf5c5 (this is crucial for our HPC
users, who routinely combine a whole bunch of options; you have no idea
how far they go once you give them the tool :-)). I don=E2=80=99t think the
manual explicitly states it though.
HTH,
Ludo=E2=80=99.
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From: Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN>
References: <87mt56gac6.fsf@HIDDEN> <871qmg79u7.fsf@HIDDEN>
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2023 17:27:41 -0500
In-Reply-To: <871qmg79u7.fsf@HIDDEN> ("Ludovic =?UTF-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?="'s message of "Thu, 23 Feb 2023 15:08:48 +0100")
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Hi Ludovic,
Ludovic Court=C3=A8s <ludo@HIDDEN> writes:
> Hi Maxim,
>
> Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN> skribis:
>
>> Given 'with-source' discards any patch from the original source, I thoug=
ht
>> I could at least add them back via 'with-patch', but it appears this
>> does not work:
>>
>> scheme@(gnu packages jami)> (options->transformation=20
>> `((with-source . "libjami@HIDDEN=3D/hom=
e/maxim/src/jami/jami-20230220.0.tar.gz")
>> (with-patch . ,(string-append=20
>> "libjami=3D" (search-patc=
h=20
>> "jami-disable=
-integration-tests.patch")))))
>> $6 =3D #<procedure 7f2cd01a97e0 at guix/transformations.scm:1010:2 (obj)>
>> scheme@(gnu packages jami)> ($6 libjami)
>> $7 =3D #<package libjami@HIDDEN guix/transformations.scm:1002 7f2ccc=
8386e0>
>> scheme@(gnu packages jami)> (package-source $7)
>> $8 =3D #<<downloaded-file> uri: "/home/maxim/src/jami/jami-20230220.0.ta=
r.gz" recursive?: #t>
>> scheme@(gnu packages jami)>
>>
>> The downloaded-file resulting package source has lost the patch, and no
>> error got produced, leaving the user to discover this limitation by
>> themselves.
>
> The order of options matters; in this case, you need to do it the other
> way around:
>
> scheme@(guile-user)> (options->transformation '((with-patch . "jami=3D/tm=
p/t.patch")
> (with-source . "jami=3Dhttp://example.org/foo.tar.gz")))
> $18 =3D #<procedure 7f7e6b1fd0c0 at guix/transformations.scm:1010:2 (obj)>
> scheme@(guile-user)> ($18 jami)
> $19 =3D #<package jami@HIDDEN guix/transformations.scm:1002 7f7e6b160=
2c0>
> scheme@(guile-user)> (package-source $19)
> $20 =3D #<<computed-file> name: "jami-20230206.0-source" gexp: #<gexp gu=
ix/transformations.scm:688:19 7f7e6b6c8d50> guile: #f options: (#:local-bui=
ld? #t)>
>
> The <computed-file> bit comes from the =E2=80=98with-patch=E2=80=99 trans=
formation, to
> apply the patch to the <downloaded-file>.
>
> If you do it the other way around, the effect of =E2=80=98with-patch=E2=
=80=99 is
> canceled by that of =E2=80=98with-source=E2=80=99, which does not preserv=
e patches. So
> strictly speaking, both options had an effect, but they were
> contradictory.
Hm. That seems sub-optimal; it seems to me that ideally, the
transformations would be additive, so that users would not need to care
about the ordering. Or perhaps, alternatively, we could enforce such
ordering at the implementation level (sorting the transformations in the
order that is required).
> Note that ordering is =E2=80=9Cspecified=E2=80=9D, notably with the test =
added in
> 0f024554e63a49e20c2a7a67e928073c266bf5c5 (this is crucial for our HPC
> users, who routinely combine a whole bunch of options; you have no idea
> how far they go once you give them the tool :-)). I don=E2=80=99t think =
the
> manual explicitly states it though.
It doesn't seem to be, indeed. But I wish we wouldn't need to (see my
above suggestions/ideas).
--=20
Thanks,
Maxim
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
Subject: bug#61684: can't compose 'with-patch' with 'with-source'
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From: Simon Tournier <zimon.toutoune@HIDDEN>
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Hi,
On jeu., 23 f=C3=A9vr. 2023 at 17:27, Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@gmai=
l.com> wrote:
> Hm. That seems sub-optimal; it seems to me that ideally, the
> transformations would be additive, so that users would not need to care
> about the ordering. Or perhaps, alternatively, we could enforce such
> ordering at the implementation level (sorting the transformations in the
> order that is required).
From my point of view (and what I tried stopping in the middle :-)) is
to report if the transformation makes sense or not. For instance,
with-patch
with-source
makes sense contrary to
with-source
with-patch
and it would already be an improvement to report that the latter
transformation does not make sense instead of silently does nothing or
raises some weird errors.
Well, I am not convinced that enforce the ordering is a good thing
because as Ludo said, some HPC user exploits this control of ordering to
generate complex transformations.
To me, the fix is:
1. document the ordering bits
2. check if the ordering =E2=80=9Cmakes sense=E2=80=9C and raises if not.
Cheers,
simon
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From: Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN>
References: <87mt56gac6.fsf@HIDDEN> <871qmg79u7.fsf@HIDDEN>
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Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2023 08:21:00 -0500
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Hello,
Simon Tournier <zimon.toutoune@HIDDEN> writes:
> Hi,
>
> On jeu., 23 f=C3=A9vr. 2023 at 17:27, Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@gm=
ail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hm. That seems sub-optimal; it seems to me that ideally, the
>> transformations would be additive, so that users would not need to care
>> about the ordering. Or perhaps, alternatively, we could enforce such
>> ordering at the implementation level (sorting the transformations in the
>> order that is required).
>
> From my point of view (and what I tried stopping in the middle :-)) is
> to report if the transformation makes sense or not. For instance,
>
> with-patch
> with-source
>
> makes sense contrary to
>
> with-source
> with-patch
>
> and it would already be an improvement to report that the latter
> transformation does not make sense instead of silently does nothing or
> raises some weird errors.
>
> Well, I am not convinced that enforce the ordering is a good thing
> because as Ludo said, some HPC user exploits this control of ordering to
> generate complex transformations.
Could we gather more information about that use case? It needs to be
clear if we are to constrain the design (solution) by it.
> To me, the fix is:
>
> 1. document the ordering bits
> 2. check if the ordering =E2=80=9Cmakes sense=E2=80=9C and raises if not.
If the use case above (the one where transformation order matters and
are useful) is expounded and appears reasonable, then yes, that seems
like a good solution. Such a use case could appear in a complex example
next to the documentation that explains the ordering "rules".
--=20
Thanks,
Maxim
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From: Simon Tournier <zimon.toutoune@HIDDEN>
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Hi Maxim,
On ven., 24 f=C3=A9vr. 2023 at 08:21, Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@gmai=
l.com> wrote:
>> Well, I am not convinced that enforce the ordering is a good thing
>> because as Ludo said, some HPC user exploits this control of ordering to
>> generate complex transformations.
>
> Could we gather more information about that use case? It needs to be
> clear if we are to constrain the design (solution) by it.
Well, I do not have the details. Just to mention two presentations
[1,2] exposing how transformations help for them.
1: <https://10years.guix.gnu.org/static/slides/07-swartvagher.pdf>
2: <https://hpc.guix.info/static/doc/atelier-reproductibilit%C3%A9-2021/mar=
ek-fel%C5%A1%C3%B6ci-org-guix.pdf>
There they intensively uses transformations. For instance, p.4 of [2]
it reads,
guix environment --pure --with-input=3Dpastix-5=3Dpastix-5-mkl \
--with-input=3Dmumps-scotch-openmpi=3Dmumps-mkl-scotch-openmpi \
--with-input=3Dopenblas=3Dmkl --with-git-url=3Dgcvb=3D$HOME/src/gcv=
b \
--with-commit=3Dgcvb=3D40d88ba241db4c71ac3e1fe8024fba4d906f45b1 \
--preserve=3D^SLURM --ad-hoc bash coreutils inetutils findutils \
grep sed bc openssh python python-psutil gcvb scab slurm@19 openmpi
For this specific example, the order may or not matter. The point is
that HPC folks are intensively using transformations and, since the
order currently matters, enforcing one specific order could break their
workflow, and even could make impossible what is currently possible.
Quoting Ludo,
(this is crucial for our H=
PC
users, who routinely combine a whole bunch of options; you have no =
idea
how far they go once you give them the tool :-))
<https://issues.guix.gnu.org/msgid/871qmg79u7.fsf@HIDDEN>
and I agree with =C2=AB you have no idea how far they go once you give them
the tool :-)) =C2=BB.
For what my opinion is worth. :-)
Cheers,
simon
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Hi Simon,
Simon Tournier <zimon.toutoune@HIDDEN> writes:
> Hi Maxim,
>
> On ven., 24 f=C3=A9vr. 2023 at 08:21, Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@gm=
ail.com> wrote:
>
>>> Well, I am not convinced that enforce the ordering is a good thing
>>> because as Ludo said, some HPC user exploits this control of ordering to
>>> generate complex transformations.
>>
>> Could we gather more information about that use case? It needs to be
>> clear if we are to constrain the design (solution) by it.
>
> Well, I do not have the details. Just to mention two presentations
> [1,2] exposing how transformations help for them.
>
> 1: <https://10years.guix.gnu.org/static/slides/07-swartvagher.pdf>
> 2: <https://hpc.guix.info/static/doc/atelier-reproductibilit%C3%A9-2021/m=
arek-fel%C5%A1%C3%B6ci-org-guix.pdf>
>
> There they intensively uses transformations. For instance, p.4 of [2]
> it reads,
>
> guix environment --pure --with-input=3Dpastix-5=3Dpastix-5-mkl \
> --with-input=3Dmumps-scotch-openmpi=3Dmumps-mkl-scotch-openmpi \
> --with-input=3Dopenblas=3Dmkl --with-git-url=3Dgcvb=3D$HOME/src/g=
cvb \
> --with-commit=3Dgcvb=3D40d88ba241db4c71ac3e1fe8024fba4d906f45b1 \
> --preserve=3D^SLURM --ad-hoc bash coreutils inetutils findutils \
> grep sed bc openssh python python-psutil gcvb scab slurm@19 openm=
pi
>
> For this specific example, the order may or not matter. The point is
> that HPC folks are intensively using transformations and, since the
> order currently matters, enforcing one specific order could break their
> workflow, and even could make impossible what is currently possible.
I'd argue that in the above case, the order doesn't or shouldn't matter.
The user clearly intended for them to be additive.
> Quoting Ludo,
>
> (this is crucial for our=
HPC
> users, who routinely combine a whole bunch of options; you have n=
o idea
> how far they go once you give them the tool :-))
>
> <https://issues.guix.gnu.org/msgid/871qmg79u7.fsf@HIDDEN>
>
> and I agree with =C2=AB you have no idea how far they go once you give th=
em
> the tool :-)) =C2=BB.
It seems a bit hypothetical at this point, so I wouldn't want to cripple
the design by it. Sure, users will find by experimentation how to
accomplish something, perhaps twisting it in odd ways to, but in my
opinion if the API was consistent it'd be much easier for everyone to
accomplish what they are after. *If* a valid use case of the current
quirky behavior is discovered, we could consider adding a
'--order-sensitive' option or similar to restore that behavior, I just
don't think it should be the default.
> For what my opinion is worth. :-)
Thanks for sharing it!
--=20
Thanks,
Maxim
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From: Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN>
References: <87mt56gac6.fsf@HIDDEN> <871qmg79u7.fsf@HIDDEN>
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2023 08:59:19 -0500
In-Reply-To: <871qmg79u7.fsf@HIDDEN> ("Ludovic =?UTF-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?="'s message of "Thu, 23 Feb 2023 15:08:48 +0100")
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Hi Ludovic,
Ludovic Court=C3=A8s <ludo@HIDDEN> writes:
> Hi Maxim,
>
> Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN> skribis:
>
>> Given 'with-source' discards any patch from the original source, I thoug=
ht
>> I could at least add them back via 'with-patch', but it appears this
>> does not work:
>>
>> scheme@(gnu packages jami)> (options->transformation
>> `((with-source . "libjami@HIDDEN=3D/hom=
e/maxim/src/jami/jami-20230220.0.tar.gz")
>> (with-patch . ,(string-append
>> "libjami=3D" (search-patch
>> "jami-disable=
-integration-tests.patch")))))
>> $6 =3D #<procedure 7f2cd01a97e0 at guix/transformations.scm:1010:2 (obj)>
>> scheme@(gnu packages jami)> ($6 libjami)
>> $7 =3D #<package libjami@HIDDEN guix/transformations.scm:1002 7f2ccc=
8386e0>
>> scheme@(gnu packages jami)> (package-source $7)
>> $8 =3D #<<downloaded-file> uri: "/home/maxim/src/jami/jami-20230220.0.ta=
r.gz" recursive?: #t>
>> scheme@(gnu packages jami)>
>>
>> The downloaded-file resulting package source has lost the patch, and no
>> error got produced, leaving the user to discover this limitation by
>> themselves.
>
> The order of options matters; in this case, you need to do it the other
> way around:
>
> scheme@(guile-user)> (options->transformation '((with-patch . "jami=3D/tm=
p/t.patch")
> (with-source . "jami=3Dhttp://example.org/foo.tar.gz")))
> $18 =3D #<procedure 7f7e6b1fd0c0 at guix/transformations.scm:1010:2 (obj)>
> scheme@(guile-user)> ($18 jami)
> $19 =3D #<package jami@HIDDEN guix/transformations.scm:1002 7f7e6b160=
2c0>
> scheme@(guile-user)> (package-source $19)
> $20 =3D #<<computed-file> name: "jami-20230206.0-source" gexp: #<gexp gu=
ix/transformations.scm:688:19 7f7e6b6c8d50> guile: #f options: (#:local-bui=
ld? #t)>
>
> The <computed-file> bit comes from the =E2=80=98with-patch=E2=80=99 trans=
formation, to
> apply the patch to the <downloaded-file>.
I tried to do that, like so:
--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
(define (with-latest-sources name)
(options->transformation
;; XXX: The ordering is important; with-patch must appear before
;; with-source, otherwise it is silently discarded.
`(,@(if (string=3D? name "libjami")
`((with-patch . ,(string-append
name "=3D"
(search-patch
"jami-disable-integration-tests.patch")))
(with-patch . ,(string-append
name "=3D"
(search-patch
"jami-libjami-headers-search.patch"))))
'())
(with-source . ,(format #f "~a@~a=3D~a" name
%release-version %release-file-name)))))
(define libjami/latest
((with-latest-sources "libjami") libjami))
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
Unfortunately the source derivation fails because it attempts to apply a
patch (a single one?) to a tarball:
--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
(begin
(use-modules
(guix build utils))
(setenv "PATH" "/gnu/store/mp0syh29rjknflaiv0hkpdlb2mjk0rlx-patch-2.7.6/b=
in")
(copy-recursively "/gnu/store/ig8awlxbzrasp9p4f9vq8fqcidrma5qj-jami-20230=
224.0.tar.gz"
((@
(guile)
getenv)
"out"))
(chdir
((@
(guile)
getenv)
"out"))
(for-each
(lambda
(patch)
(invoke "patch" "-p1" "--batch" "-i" patch))
(quote
("/gnu/store/iq7hd3f9kr2kvz7lvnygq51yxp85gxbn-jami-libjami-headers-sear=
ch.patch"))))
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
My expectation of the source rewriting options is that it should end up
with something like what I'd write manually, e.g. an origin with an
appropriate fetch method and its patches field populated, etc., so that
it'd work the same.
--=20
Thanks,
Maxim
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From: Simon Tournier <zimon.toutoune@HIDDEN>
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Hi Maxim,
On Fri, 24 Feb 2023 at 08:52, Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN> w=
rote:
> if the API was consistent it'd be much easier for everyone
Indeed. However, when it is currently not, the implicit rule is to not
break backward compatibility. That=E2=80=99s the whole point. :-)
We need to be very cautious when we change the API; even when it is for
fixing an inconsistency.
Cheers,
simon
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From: Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN>
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Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2023 14:43:12 -0500
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Hi,
Simon Tournier <zimon.toutoune@HIDDEN> writes:
> Hi Maxim,
>
> On Fri, 24 Feb 2023 at 08:52, Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN>=
wrote:
>
>> if the API was consistent it'd be much easier for everyone
>
> Indeed. However, when it is currently not, the implicit rule is to not
> break backward compatibility. That=E2=80=99s the whole point. :-)
>
> We need to be very cautious when we change the API; even when it is for
> fixing an inconsistency.
Agreed; if the current behavior really provides well outlined benefits,
we could always introduce a "--order-sensitive" option for its users.
--=20
Thanks,
Maxim
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
Subject: bug#61684: can't compose 'with-patch' with 'with-source'
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Hi!
Simon Tournier <zimon.toutoune@HIDDEN> skribis:
>>From my point of view (and what I tried stopping in the middle :-)) is
> to report if the transformation makes sense or not. For instance,
You stated that multiple times and there=E2=80=99s general consensus that
reporting the issue would be great.
However, as I explained before, there=E2=80=99s no clear way to do that for=
two
reasons:
1. Transformations apply to bags, not packages, so we cannot tell
whether a transformation has an effect until after the transformed
package has been lowered. Even then, it=E2=80=99s tricky.
2. In this case, this has to do with the semantics of transformations
themselves: by definition, =E2=80=98with-source=E2=80=99 dismisses pat=
ches.
[...]
> Well, I am not convinced that enforce the ordering is a good thing
> because as Ludo said, some HPC user exploits this control of ordering to
> generate complex transformations.
My point is that there are folks who have been using package
transformation options for years; any claim has to be evaluated in that
light, and any change would have to be considered very carefully.
Thanks,
Ludo=E2=80=99.
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Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN> skribis:
>> Quoting Ludo,
>>
>> (this is crucial for ou=
r HPC
>> users, who routinely combine a whole bunch of options; you have =
no idea
>> how far they go once you give them the tool :-))
>>
>> <https://issues.guix.gnu.org/msgid/871qmg79u7.fsf@HIDDEN>
>>
>> and I agree with =C2=AB you have no idea how far they go once you give t=
hem
>> the tool :-)) =C2=BB.
>
> It seems a bit hypothetical at this point, so I wouldn't want to cripple
> the design by it.
It baffles me that you would consider other people=E2=80=99s experience as
=E2=80=9Chypothetical=E2=80=9D. It=E2=80=99s not, really.
The choice of words after the comma is also unfortunate in several ways.
Ludo=E2=80=99.
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