GNU bug report logs - #62064
Why is only rust-1.60 exported when 1.65 is defined?

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Package: guix; Severity: wishlist; Reported by: Jonas Møller <jonas@HIDDEN>; dated Thu, 9 Mar 2023 04:46:03 UTC; Maintainer for guix is bug-guix@HIDDEN.

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Subject: Re: bug#62064: Why is only rust-1.60 exported when 1.65 is defined?
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Information forwarded to bug-guix@HIDDEN:
bug#62064; Package guix. Full text available.
Severity set to 'wishlist' from 'normal' Request was from zimoun <zimon.toutoune@HIDDEN> to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org. Full text available.

Message received at 62064 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: Simon Tournier <zimon.toutoune@HIDDEN>
To: "(" <paren@HIDDEN>, Jonas =?utf-8?Q?M=C3=B8ller?= <jonas@HIDDEN>,
 62064 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#62064: Why is only rust-1.60 exported when 1.65 is defined?
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Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2023 11:30:53 +0200
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Hi,

On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 at 21:11, paren--- via Bug reports for GNU Guix <bug-guix@HIDDEN> wrote:

> There's another important reason:
>
>   rust != rust-1.60

Well, as discussed in [1]

    [bug#62643] [PATCH] gnu: rust-1.65: Rename package to rust-next.

this report #62064 is not a bug but instead a wish list: upgrade the
Rust ecosystem.  Therefore, I am in favor to close it.  WDYT?

1: http://issues.guix.gnu.org/issue/62643

Cheers,
simon




Information forwarded to bug-guix@HIDDEN:
bug#62064; Package guix. Full text available.

Message received at 62064 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: Simon Tournier <zimon.toutoune@HIDDEN>
To: Jonas =?utf-8?Q?M=C3=B8ller?= <jonas@HIDDEN>, 62064 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#62064: Why is only rust-1.60 exported when 1.65 is defined?
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Hi,

On mar., 14 mars 2023 at 08:59, Jonas M=C3=B8ller via Bug reports for GNU G=
uix <bug-guix@HIDDEN> wrote:

> I think it would be best if Guix separated these concerns, by
> disconnecting the "Rust we use to build packages internally" with the
> "Rust that gets installed with `guix install rust`"=20

Using your proposal, how do you deal with

    guix install rust rust-foobar

?  Do you expect that rust-foobar is built using the latest Rust or the
internal Rust?

Well, from my point of view, what you would like is that the symbol
=E2=80=99rust-1.65=E2=80=99 would be named =E2=80=9Crust-next=E2=80=9D.  It=
 is the current way for
several versions; see emacs vs emacs-next.

See https://issues.guix.gnu.org/62643

I propose to close this report once #62643 is merged.

Cheers,
simon




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bug#62064; Package guix. Full text available.

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From: ROCKTAKEY <rocktakey@HIDDEN>
Subject: Why is only rust-1.60 exported when 1.65 is defined?
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Hi,

Some of cargo packages require rust-1.61 or higher. Currently, there is 
no way to build them with Guix because of this issue.

So I think cargo-build-system (and other build-systems?) should be able 
to specify the version of rust. As of now, it accepts #:rust keyword, 
but there is no package to pass it to (because the packages named 
rust-1.* are not public).

Providing newer Rust packages are needed in this regard as well.

ROCKTAKEY





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bug#62064; Package guix. Full text available.

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From: Simon Tournier <zimon.toutoune@HIDDEN>
To: Jonas =?utf-8?Q?M=C3=B8ller?= <jonas@HIDDEN>, 62064 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#62064: Why is only rust-1.60 exported when 1.65 is defined?
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Hi Jonas,

On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 at 20:59, Jonas M=C3=B8ller via Bug reports for GNU Gui=
x <bug-guix@HIDDEN> wrote:
>> Well, the issue when exporting =E2=80=99rust-1.65=E2=80=99 is that it wo=
uld possible
>> incompatible with the Rust packages provided by Guix and compiled with
>> =E2=80=99rust=E2=80=99 (1.60).
>
> Rust has very strong stability guarantees between 1.x releases, and
> has a very extensive set of tooling/infrastructure to make sure no
> breaking changes make their way into a release (see crater [1]). Any
> Rust-based package big enough to be packaged by Guix will have had its
> test-suite confirmed to work with the new release of cargo/rustc long
> before any new release is made (and in many cases before pull-requests
> are merged.)

To test your claim, I would suggest to write a manifest using package
transformations [1] and then rebuild all Rust packages from Guix.

1: https://guix.gnu.org/manual/devel/en/guix.html#Package-Transformation-Op=
tions
2: https://guix.gnu.org/manual/devel/en/guix.html#Defining-Package-Variants

> Nevertheless, rebuilding all Rust packages on every rustc release
> isn't strictly necessary. (Improvements in optimizations do happen,
> but they are mosty minor release-to-release.)

I do not understand how this could be implemented with Guix.  Could you
be more specific?


Well, all in all, I do not think this report is a bug but a wish list.
Instead, I would suggest to discuss the actionable tasks for updating
Rust [3] in the mailing list guix-devel, WDYT?

3: https://guix.gnu.org/manual/devel/en/guix.html#Defining-Package-Variants

Cheers,
simon




Information forwarded to bug-guix@HIDDEN:
bug#62064; Package guix. Full text available.

Message received at 62064 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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Subject: Re: bug#62064: Why is only rust-1.60 exported when 1.65 is defined?
From: "(" <paren@HIDDEN>
To: =?utf-8?q?Jonas_M=C3=B8ller?= <jonas@HIDDEN>, <62064 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
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Hi,

On Wed Mar 8, 2023 at 4:09 PM GMT, Jonas M=C3=B8ller via Bug reports for GN=
U Guix wrote:
> And then proceeds to define-public rust as rust-1.60, and I was wondering=
 if there's any particular reason why a year-old version is used rather tha=
n the 1.65 version. This seems like a mistake, given that the comment claim=
s that the "latest included Rust" should be made public.

There's another important reason:

  rust !=3D rust-1.60

The packages are not one and the same, despite the former being derived fro=
m the
latter.  The RUST-1.X packages are not full Rust packages; they are cut dow=
n
intentionally (no tests, no non-essential tools) to reduce bootstrapping ti=
me,
which means we need to essentially revert those changes in the public RUST =
package
to get something that we can actually expose to users.

That's why the RUST variable isn't defined like this:

  (define-public rust rust-1.60)

It's defined like this:

  (define-public rust
    (package
      (inherit rust-1.60)
      ;; --8<-- a VERY extensive set of overrides to readd removed stuff --=
8<--
      =E2=80=A6))

So to add a RUST-LATEST, we'd need to have another one of these monstrositi=
es
(seriously, it's evil <https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/guix.git/tree/gnu/=
packages/rust.scm#n663>)
but because it's mostly source code patches, we couldn't just make some kin=
d of
MAKE-PUBLIC-RUST procedure, as a SUBSTITUTE* that works for 1.60 may not wo=
rk
for 1.65...

    -- (

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Subject: Re: bug#62064: Why is only rust-1.60 exported when 1.65 is defined?
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--b1_feQkgIR7JYpWjh9HCJdAt5xlmdtsUb7M3ikImyl6cU--





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From: Simon Tournier <zimon.toutoune@HIDDEN>
To: Jonas =?utf-8?Q?M=C3=B8ller?= <jonas@HIDDEN>, 62064 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#62064: Why is only rust-1.60 exported when 1.65 is defined?
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Hi,

On mer., 08 mars 2023 at 16:09, Jonas M=C3=B8ller via Bug reports for GNU G=
uix <bug-guix@HIDDEN> wrote:

>> ;;; Note: Only the latest versions of Rust are supported and tested. The
>> ;;; intermediate rusts are built for bootstrapping purposes and should n=
ot
>> ;;; be relied upon. This is to ease maintenance and reduce the time
>> ;;; required to build the full Rust bootstrap chain.
>> ;;;
>> ;;; Here we take the latest included Rust, make it public, and re-enable=
 tests
>> ;;; and extra components such as rustfmt.
>
> And then proceeds to define-public rust as rust-1.60, and I was
> wondering if there's any particular reason why a year-old version is
> used rather than the 1.65 version. This seems like a mistake, given
> that the comment claims that the "latest included Rust" should be made
> public.

Well, I know few about Rust and I guess it is because using =E2=80=99rust-1=
.65=E2=80=99
as default Rust is a world-rebuild.

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
$ guix refresh rust -l | cut -f1 -d':'
Building the following 4560 packages would ensure 6637 dependent packages a=
re rebuilt
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---


> This is especially troublesome for Rust on Guix because of both how
> fast its ecosystem moves onto new language/tooling features, and
> because using rustup (the solution for this on other slow-moving
> distros) relies on pre-built executables that don't work
> out-of-the-box on Guix.=20

Well, the issue when exporting =E2=80=99rust-1.65=E2=80=99 is that it would=
 possible
incompatible with the Rust packages provided by Guix and compiled with
=E2=80=99rust=E2=80=99 (1.60).

Maybe, one could imagine a package transformation
=E2=80=99package-with-explicit-rust=E2=80=99 as it is done for Python and O=
Caml.


Cheers,
simon




Information forwarded to bug-guix@HIDDEN:
bug#62064; Package guix. Full text available.

Message received at 62064 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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Subject: Re: bug#62064: Why is only rust-1.60 exported when 1.65 is defined?
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On Sun, Mar 12, 2023 at 8:12=E2=80=AFAM Jonas M=C3=B8ller via Bug reports f=
or GNU
Guix <bug-guix@HIDDEN> wrote:
>
> Hi Guix! The rust.scm file says
>
> ;;; Note: Only the latest versions of Rust are supported and tested.  The
> ;;; intermediate rusts are built for bootstrapping purposes and should no=
t
> ;;; be relied upon.  This is to ease maintenance and reduce the time
> ;;; required to build the full Rust bootstrap chain.
> ;;;
> ;;; Here we take the latest included Rust, make it public, and re-enable =
tests
> ;;; and extra components such as rustfmt.
>
> And then proceeds to define-public rust as rust-1.60, and I was wondering=
 if there's any particular reason why a year-old version is used rather tha=
n the 1.65 version. This seems like a mistake, given that the comment claim=
s that the "latest included Rust" should be made public.
>
> This is especially troublesome for Rust on Guix because of both how fast =
its ecosystem moves onto new language/tooling features, and because using r=
ustup (the solution for this on other slow-moving distros) relies on pre-bu=
ilt executables that don't work out-of-the-box on Guix.
>
>
> =E2=80=94 Mvh Jonas M=C3=B8ller

Hi Jonas,

Is this question in regards to the current or future status of Rust in
Guix? Historically, updating Rust has been considered a core-updates
level change due to the number of dependent packages [0]. Under the
new feature branch workflow there was a recent announcement [1] by the
Rust team that 1.67 is in testing [2].

Can Guix's build farm keep up with Rust's six week release cycle? The
compute looks to be available but I don't recall a discussion for
consideration of storage or a blueprint for pruning old packages.

[0] https://guix.gnu.org/manual/en/html_node/Submitting-Patches.html
[1] https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-devel/2023-03/msg00002.html
[2] https://ci.guix.gnu.org/jobset/rust-team

Greg




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From: Matthew James Kraai <kraai@HIDDEN>
To: 62064 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: Why is only rust-1.60 exported when 1.65 is defined?
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Hi,

I believe that rust-1.60 is exported when 1.65 is defined because
changing the exported version would require rebuilding too many
dependencies.

unmatched-paren mentioned adding a rust-latest package on IRC to avoid
this issue.

-- 
Matt




Information forwarded to bug-guix@HIDDEN:
bug#62064; Package guix. Full text available.

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Acknowledgement sent to Jonas Møller <jonas@HIDDEN>:
New bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to bug-guix@HIDDEN. Full text available.
Report forwarded to bug-guix@HIDDEN:
bug#62064; Package guix. Full text available.
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