GNU bug report logs - #62170
29.0.60; the default tool bar icons are ugly to modern users and are not customizable

Please note: This is a static page, with minimal formatting, updated once a day.
Click here to see this page with the latest information and nicer formatting.

Package: emacs; Severity: wishlist; Reported by: Spencer Baugh <sbaugh@HIDDEN>; dated Mon, 13 Mar 2023 20:17:02 UTC; Maintainer for emacs is bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.
Severity set to 'wishlist' from 'normal' Request was from Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN> to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org. Full text available.

Message received at 62170 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


Received: (at 62170) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Mar 2023 02:02:06 +0000
From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Mar 16 22:02:06 2023
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43385 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1pczPx-0005ih-Vf
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 16 Mar 2023 22:02:06 -0400
Received: from sonic315-21.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.190.147]:46005)
 by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
 (envelope-from <luangruo@HIDDEN>) id 1pczPv-0005hF-SI
 for 62170 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 16 Mar 2023 22:02:04 -0400
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048;
 t=1679018516; bh=ZA1J6bjXnk3pbtvXajuCmzlC6XVt2UTziDCZaGbtXC8=;
 h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From:Subject:Reply-To;
 b=HO8JuAKIR1Q1IkVaXddXigAZCfIj6EQyRVgVld6+onEMRpF5vGg8ZqW/vZSYbT7ijdhlIu2J6oBRoC6WVhP1WEflv5msAj4WutCX/+Qth5Anud5hgwN4gTnATHJitqtVtkWOT3hLxxYjxcISaUiCavxm7djNtMo1V294P8mEZR/NFVunydkNcXY7GiD76kyI4hZ71Mp7e/GyPELiWcSXwV0xKGOAtRRB4pYJ05u5zsBCfn+TgBg8YgIiqAkO+cjPtrt4aUQeZgqhtiF1NNUUpagORc/4GHKtG8YGhNNikVltoLDM8Bjfe2pB5FucXIBgC8n/7CKb0LPwiEslSxtlFA==
X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048;
 t=1679018516; bh=J4D08TBTXOVkNbbgSxoOP0YH4tked6E9x0YcJA9je7Z=;
 h=X-Sonic-MF:From:To:Subject:Date:From:Subject;
 b=F8UOHK6ePtArNDy1g4UbkQEJn5xjcuIl+LX9ogyOmGaS2emDe0x4EJeoZAwi3qmCdSQ0MDYwUlidm1SpFcKnCYJ/vO2qjYdxbhwlglYWU/pU9dN2pmBTOy2+U94CGgPy9MU7TSD0a4NV/+zAWQDKS/pQ9b4iC4lgxLcbstfa4XG88gDD3XUhzHwKqcP0X6QOonZ9FVwYepgn+4PMdC0KNaeKBfa7Y5tTuHKo7b/YlBct9YwxhEla5QXNh/hF7MMR0IBfw73xZTPhdo2+FujfA1Xnv19dMLMkKqCChI97fQM6e2Tk28jvehrdTF5QvKISUyJ7m3eLBVwaCIlg9aRkRA==
X-YMail-OSG: 6oZcaIcVM1k0VwELSBDo7ctYj9AZ47Khuxi5z0uEhozlEThbuKJktXRtaC7ooRW
 fv2EW2CFkelsWKiREEQkWmlwWaY9qUtkNuw5HinO1DfxDuHpJGMuIT2clR6jXgNh_76SPY.KtZ.3
 MdJkxXTCw2WG84538utV0qOgUIhdVxQpgNMOJCSfa3f55LeaLyknXmSClmjnB4xSoH6W3vu3hicV
 OEkfwo4z4aGneCoZ0nyD4gI4QIrOaYPKSXdv8BMbzbiiJ08iHBvg847f4XoFWTCFj8T_nc46pBqS
 H8R3NWktEq0R5FcUXi4E9MHjLMR3dQf_EuYxmmD3zq1UB89b40LKBAvCGhspu8it18gd_zxmKicv
 wgxl_3tmpFLj0GU85vyzmPJ9TW3E43D5e3U2JyHUg2Z6xOlosH_3p3RTli0ooFYcnLv7vrEcjX8Y
 6IgXprBDaduN0L2OwJ4VxGvyZH3YWq2B6TTAaMLOgwevgQKDKUgWwyHkDUdVtQhxHZp3uUMSqq58
 z5cX2sqkLRiIeBOHzjsfaTX1yXjTZugJA1J5B77rU5KXumiXlKCeJqrhc486nYFiTs0f9tuVHLu1
 .tK00deFs3eS7ebjKjMih2flbA8bem_3Y_5nSQiz72eiTfdcRFfMzpjd4fGJ9.CIJVTqsgUesAgo
 kheqrF3RAPk5CV1sxeEnNAWtt465uPSDhNab4agV05bI6j554V2YCUMQR8AdcaFa9u22tgPF0RUJ
 1E.8P1JBtzxjhlgD7BrxmDMbu4h9GZYPGI_VCE_qJbqVrM5.c80Lx4p6hRER4X.1dAg.AhA4IXBb
 UptnA4WJBn_yySKmlGbnxsLvZAzV8_rYdTyZbEvAE7DzLnIO2OW03BhEH9QEZ_IynUz1fKWIkYsa
 fO6DyOY1X6i2zVwyK5mI09RY1TPujN3KiZexcUni5CxrHOtEyOr1Rjl1QliGrx9nFDLAt7C_hq0h
 TDjKwinVyoDgjmfaCmrrhfuHHx0y20yD3pvNw6yA4HHwHJNpG0mrx5DbAx2BqXkqNqafIqkh2lzm
 CFZI3rZGgUFzbE5rSzIv7PHJjtcFd78yNddbfxNXZJm4JUY3v.1dxP7wRF_mZZ5.hblZSepU5ej_
 n1jPqgjaiKEXrtH5RGEvbmy5lnHkQkzYSeYEG1TdRKvHWwHxfb59Yb_bugExEIQiXo9G4.1ZitMm
 DjkBh_46xOLNT.7wgIcx0Y.ORchcVYh83ruFv46RRiWqrD5KgpEBGOzR4FGg3k5YRyhX7FZp68Xd
 4DTCKfxFMu.ivFNsK8ERQmZ0EwXbxc1kxNuc8Bf.DKK4h3E6JQOrc0Oitwdpfu3g3zZS08Ah5gwv
 7Q3Em8HFda3iN8jPGeZBBqp7S0FISQcu1bEtcGNOWZh.2_VVJFXKxALQebOxI2SpLvWDeFr01YiS
 WEDhlZCVsKNG4IewrzXulhgSSVyW8YKo47WlRJaN0Esynq3aJzYCDJctKy6T5slJWpelU5ZCSaoW
 UqqAH_ULMSz7n4Nl8urOcXQpIoIBMRCgKtZ1p82oWA9d_p6Tf_XDNnWvw2PBH7QE8PF052x899OE
 .uDm1F_a7KJ37UMpxPQlDgY7iclr3f6.zQLafzK74y6c9uQDpaom25kwp6w3l8i2XW4Q6MU46Wzj
 yjij789IcRpLlW3XRM4VB8x4BytEh_a21Hw1Bl8JDwuWGzHmitkUzuUKTZ3XxY7SYXuEFtY3jNUh
 OtzVJmRbxbgfLQhxCAumkD4ZDTz84Gwnvs4Lx5pcMrtiVtVxpx_K9X71B6sueLhdkYReS3ybHBwX
 FhlEZl6BRiZ.CPoZ.hg7I9qz1FbEmdjJClJMV.3kZiMLBNVANow95HD__UBM5NE1SbDaMTLcXY2p
 eNtR4t1nc0wHY8eghAx6CO6_0C54lyXx6KiZdasux4mx0H3I2H86tt.Hb7YSpEWAcEaz.i2u8b3X
 .YWfxVycpeCh8bT_VU_Oi_71GHZLoxy3h_mGNSqFyjr2DHNtH5CuVH1d.DokztpwFqiEJo53X.Of
 gY27jhBf0UV5PNP34dUdPUiO4K1CCHNMLpt0JXBt5SvU_4RNqMCt4elFTPkT3FC5SATmVpchOYCA
 J18jLrF1u3RmzTTczD9LxNtqbWpgQa4IY2xZrnhFcIDbbMFL30qDv8VlkNtfUjefbfZ0nhoSznWG
 pgwj5m2hdtzLYay194qLIluoYIxifLS1NZ6IBIOsoE5IWOsocNYPWVrLu8AV_zOU4_LVvSQ2lExk
 lboGpt_Ny8rzwUIgwwNRhOYFyIdFBRhueTb8MY5YZFXSeSu.AjErBfGj0.jWwLts.3w--
X-Sonic-MF: <luangruo@HIDDEN>
X-Sonic-ID: dd0aec6f-ae8b-447f-b92e-82a98cdeb856
Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by
 sonic315.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Fri, 17 Mar 2023 02:01:56 +0000
Received: by hermes--production-sg3-67c57bccff-62k8m (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP
 Server) with ESMTPA ID cdd0c2f440e72109afda6bc3c8e9f610; 
 Fri, 17 Mar 2023 02:01:50 +0000 (UTC)
From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>
To: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#62170: 29.0.60; the default tool bar icons are ugly to
 modern users and are not customizable
In-Reply-To: <ba7e4005-6b68-8f49-42df-2614fff1e9d7@HIDDEN> (Jim Porter's
 message of "Thu, 16 Mar 2023 12:36:15 -0700")
References: <ierzg8go195.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <87h6uo887x.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <ba7e4005-6b68-8f49-42df-2614fff1e9d7@HIDDEN>
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2023 10:01:45 +0800
Message-ID: <871qlo3zli.fsf@HIDDEN>
User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.21311
 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo
Content-Length: 1223
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 62170
Cc: Spencer Baugh <sbaugh@HIDDEN>, 62170 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-)

Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN> writes:

> Agreed. I think a good general guideline is this: for icons which are
> always in the same spot (e.g. the navigation buttons in your web
> browser), color probably isn't that valuable, and possibly a
> distraction. As a user, you'll quickly internalize where, say, the
> back button is anyway.

FWIW, I typically use the keyboard to navigate in a web browser, because
Mozilla keeps changing the location of their navigation buttons.  For
example, the Home button used to be to the right of the Search box, but
now it is to the right of the Reload button.

> Still, I think I agree with the overall request: the current icons
> could use some improvement, partly just to make sure they all feel
> like they belong together.

[...]

> (This is worse on GTK builds, where some icons come from GTK and have
> one visual style, but others come from Emacs and look totally
> different.)

This is mainly the fault of the GNOME developers: they keep changing
their default icon theme, so now Emacs's icons (mostly imported from
GNOME) are no longer consistent with the rest of the system.

Perhaps we could re-import icons from the GNOME icon theme?  The
non-symbolic ones, of course.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#62170; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 62170 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


Received: (at 62170) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Mar 2023 19:36:24 +0000
From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Mar 16 15:36:24 2023
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43113 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1pctOh-0001pT-PX
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 16 Mar 2023 15:36:24 -0400
Received: from mail-pj1-f41.google.com ([209.85.216.41]:43893)
 by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
 (envelope-from <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>) id 1pctOg-0001pH-Kt
 for 62170 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 16 Mar 2023 15:36:23 -0400
Received: by mail-pj1-f41.google.com with SMTP id
 lr16-20020a17090b4b9000b0023f187954acso2678218pjb.2
 for <62170 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 16 Mar 2023 12:36:22 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
 d=gmail.com; s=20210112; t=1678995376;
 h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to
 :content-language:subject:mime-version:date:message-id:from:to:cc
 :subject:date:message-id:reply-to;
 bh=T6eUY7afU2/rb1RXOQuqujOrK+321hCtyj+Zx1JXY+E=;
 b=CkTl9qQhgRtqmGkd8gQUNFgKvlzsakngqK+Yf34oN97b+8uhpueD0yru6PsQuQelsG
 cxKEIKlhYMwgW7iUo5s9m8jVY6x080Nga8WPGcV+a4tzzaVOVZdGvdOkTsmMaFX+MMDD
 3AcjHzGZJ75BuO99M/qrCGzD2kPMeNbVBCzUzhkyY25G0VLqDdl5Riu/UKM1L4PPv+jz
 8D2NUIafD5bjClQD0ntoSZrY1DCtCcId3tjEWhc0nSUf7FUlIR43DsNkRN8/3NOD0IJh
 AOZpnG6AfpnlMdQc1rXQGg88lravbEja+4FCg91ZvqZjYFsjreF3+xezntgzmjn9xKuX
 shsw==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
 d=1e100.net; s=20210112; t=1678995376;
 h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to
 :content-language:subject:mime-version:date:message-id
 :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to;
 bh=T6eUY7afU2/rb1RXOQuqujOrK+321hCtyj+Zx1JXY+E=;
 b=RNCQB+BkqEGXbzXHK31MkKiBw1vL7+RGSbdIasyLm+H1rvU6bqkjFlBC3Qj6AsaE5f
 i7gFerzcaWU8lzWgGOcuKbEvEe3i6CVNC+xd/hrbXyKfTpb0GTa1vLAiuXDFuF/XZFdJ
 aQlC+DxsmC0WR0t+ozparI05D7bN3YtHhmdNfGekoMJvVChd/m163vs7a6G9g1d/29cv
 Vksrnlv1QqAeCVa0GMQvUfxvP5tgQtzeNGj0EA4XlpgSv9GWCcZwn/xdJRsj43CU8Xc8
 d9+9rU/auSZbZ73eM5dWPvaT/aNBFPB6ucCeFBKAvHVVzt8jU00/HtM2Xr3WqD7NwBsy
 kkuw==
X-Gm-Message-State: AO0yUKVKkMbCEZuY/2Ju1I3IE2Ub2v6Mx2aBLs5IloElhiu8StXLwJR4
 /ZkqgpJsbxIxyGeOl1VJR3A=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AK7set8iUKaquKSbXXkaKbPlwGykamQifSjtYx7XWGgc+bS9xfbadXMFIHjRFDPgdcWD9+uA7ngnSg==
X-Received: by 2002:a17:90b:4c0e:b0:23f:4e3:cda8 with SMTP id
 na14-20020a17090b4c0e00b0023f04e3cda8mr5044066pjb.46.1678995376596; 
 Thu, 16 Mar 2023 12:36:16 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [192.168.1.2] (cpe-76-168-148-233.socal.res.rr.com.
 [76.168.148.233]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id
 z31-20020a17090a6d2200b001fde655225fsm7675254pjj.2.2023.03.16.12.36.15
 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128);
 Thu, 16 Mar 2023 12:36:16 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <ba7e4005-6b68-8f49-42df-2614fff1e9d7@HIDDEN>
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2023 12:36:15 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Subject: Re: bug#62170: 29.0.60; the default tool bar icons are ugly to modern
 users and are not customizable
Content-Language: en-US
To: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>, Spencer Baugh <sbaugh@HIDDEN>
References: <ierzg8go195.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <87h6uo887x.fsf@HIDDEN>
From: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <87h6uo887x.fsf@HIDDEN>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 62170
Cc: 62170 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-)

On 3/13/2023 5:52 PM, Po Lu via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss 
army knife of text editors wrote:
> Spencer Baugh <sbaugh@HIDDEN> writes:
>> Alternatively, we could just throw out the current icons and replace
>> them with a minimal and abstract design which hopefully would have
>> mass appeal.  But maybe there are people who really like the current
>> icons and would be upset about that?
> 
> I do.  Every supposedly ``modern'' set of icons proposed lacks color
> contrast, making them indistinguishable from each other.

Agreed. I think a good general guideline is this: for icons which are 
always in the same spot (e.g. the navigation buttons in your web 
browser), color probably isn't that valuable, and possibly a 
distraction. As a user, you'll quickly internalize where, say, the back 
button is anyway.

However, Emacs toolbars change according to the mode of the active 
buffer, so they're likely to change many times in a session. Here, some 
color is very useful for letting you tell at a glance what all the 
buttons are.

Still, I think I agree with the overall request: the current icons could 
use some improvement, partly just to make sure they all feel like they 
belong together. (This is worse on GTK builds, where some icons come 
from GTK and have one visual style, but others come from Emacs and look 
totally different.)




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#62170; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 62170 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


Received: (at 62170) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Mar 2023 16:09:11 +0000
From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Mar 15 12:09:11 2023
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40428 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1pcTgc-00011m-Rc
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 15 Mar 2023 12:09:11 -0400
Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]:43081)
 by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
 (envelope-from <philipk@HIDDEN>) id 1pcTgb-00011V-9u
 for 62170 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 15 Mar 2023 12:09:10 -0400
Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) 
 by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 38487240572
 for <62170 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 15 Mar 2023 17:09:03 +0100 (CET)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017;
 t=1678896543; bh=/psSwRV81LzWrf1AsAC9eJ4okhYKZG+OqQORhOR1wl4=;
 h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From;
 b=oNvegvrx0XuA1tJmHxWzsn6M0fdwG2PNziejucD/YOnlv59PE+j3pP3CSAxH47F0P
 Sgozov+SDqlelsIYRZTyvK0ZE4GJZQIFGUHiLe3s9MizVoD88fezEOOsIRIG7ta7MZ
 cOKFnVJ5Izm1nGpze7YPy05vUzxmVV+QbyVQvpIs/FHpsezOh17hJspkgc0V8fKnLe
 bDohb3UFzE0JH9vUNZygeRKqksYyYXMno1FGah0t8dr6Rlx3qWrV4DRjzG9v7RL0hL
 Fwahdj/2ufYIs8GmIJ9K/D+e5DhSqmT40HJSJtR82E1wbuR0RYEu1RSe0htHoNmd3C
 Wd2C7b6HPr7mQ==
Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1])
 by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4PcFgy3Vjjz6tmN;
 Wed, 15 Mar 2023 17:09:02 +0100 (CET)
From: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN>
To: Spencer Baugh <sbaugh@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#62170: 29.0.60; the default tool bar icons are ugly to
 modern users and are not customizable
In-Reply-To: <ierzg8go195.fsf@HIDDEN>
 (Spencer Baugh's message of "Mon, 13 Mar 2023 16:16:38 -0400")
References: <ierzg8go195.fsf@HIDDEN>
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2023 16:09:26 +0000
Message-ID: <871qlqj8sp.fsf@HIDDEN>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--)
X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 62170
Cc: 62170 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---)

Spencer Baugh <sbaugh@HIDDEN> writes:

> 1. Open "emacs -Q" and show it to someone who has spent the last 10
> years using popular proprietary applications with big design budgets.
> 2. Point out the tool bar
> 3. Observe a look of disgust pass over their face
> 4. Observe that, if they do still try Emacs, they immediately disable
> tool-bar-mode, even though it's very useful to new users, because it's
> so ugly to them.

What Icons are we talking about?  I am using the PGTK build, and they
look just like the icons any other GTK would use.  Sure, it differ from
GNOME where the icons are part of the window bar, but that is a
different issue.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#62170; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 62170 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


Received: (at 62170) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Mar 2023 12:43:52 +0000
From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Mar 14 08:43:52 2023
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36635 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1pc40O-0002zA-5b
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 14 Mar 2023 08:43:52 -0400
Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:43422)
 by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
 (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1pc40M-0002yy-Ff
 for 62170 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 14 Mar 2023 08:43:51 -0400
Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e])
 by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256)
 (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>)
 id 1pc40G-0007ul-WC; Tue, 14 Mar 2023 08:43:45 -0400
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org;
 s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date:
 mime-version; bh=dxFiAHhuGmoFBBStG+4Gx/OHUoLgAoj+UZ0YwEfIJt8=; b=blowA3goxQjQ
 IhnrCab/F1kzo34W8Clpiy+Z2DOzWivNyKfL0QtNNLn4j8KPv+8AoHVDZ39anXn8xLcAoTETLQzPm
 BQbLCG6z3vo52AxFMNDZ71IKH+Np4cSrSnt9LhLW38X0oNzj6711/4NpKKfOfgUBuwJvAb125JtiF
 koZZNvawRnivMb/dGvnjbYdv0VRkG6Y59RnyPUml87GGVb48Yfend18NP7RqjZ0saf7HG74l7BvVN
 tpjHwotumbNSMymm3Gotx897PZTOAOkPvz6ASd/XiHabET3mIubLuF2n5hFDMWvWeeLdGW2aOamzm
 rsCLPcb2vbOsyRSjM38zGg==;
Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7)
 by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256)
 (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>)
 id 1pc40G-0001Ec-AD; Tue, 14 Mar 2023 08:43:44 -0400
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2023 14:43:37 +0200
Message-Id: <83r0trsdty.fsf@HIDDEN>
From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
To: Spencer Baugh <sbaugh@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <ierzg8go195.fsf@HIDDEN>
 (message from Spencer Baugh on Mon, 13 Mar 2023 16:16:38 -0400)
Subject: Re: bug#62170: 29.0.60;
 the default tool bar icons are ugly to modern users and are not
 customizable
References: <ierzg8go195.fsf@HIDDEN>
X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--)
X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 62170
Cc: 62170 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---)

> From: Spencer Baugh <sbaugh@HIDDEN>
> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2023 16:16:38 -0400
> 
> Proposed solution: it should be possible to configure the icons used
> for a tool bar.

But it already _is_ possible.  You "just" need to find somewhere the
icons you like, call their files by the names Emacs expects (for
example, "new.FOO" for the find-file button, where FOO is an image
extension supported by Emacs), then put them in some directory, and
make sure that directory is in image-load-path before the image
directories installed by "make install".

Alternatively, you can use in your init files functions from
tool-bar.el, such as tool-bar-add-item-from-menu, to override the
default image names used for the buttons; then Emacs will look for
other images.

> Alternatively, we could just throw out the current icons and replace
> them with a minimal and abstract design which hopefully would have
> mass appeal.

We replaced our icons a couple of times on the past.  We can do that
again, if better icons are available.  The difficulty is that for us
to distribute an icon it must be under a Free license.  So either we
have someone on board who could create beautiful icons as part of
his/her work on Emacs, or we find icons produced by someone else which
are distributed under a Free license and import them.

IOW, there's no problem with your proposal except coming up with
better icons we can include in our release tarballs.  It's not like we
are wedded to the current ones or consider them to be the best
inventions since sliced bread.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#62170; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 62170 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


Received: (at 62170) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Mar 2023 00:53:12 +0000
From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Mar 13 20:53:12 2023
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35872 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1pbsue-0006Ar-8n
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 13 Mar 2023 20:53:12 -0400
Received: from sonic314-21.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.189.147]:40617)
 by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
 (envelope-from <luangruo@HIDDEN>) id 1pbsub-0006AZ-Qp
 for 62170 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 13 Mar 2023 20:53:11 -0400
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048;
 t=1678755182; bh=uzYF91HZaaBily5CGgZanl8AQNK1LBzMsN8/V61cDHY=;
 h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From:Subject:Reply-To;
 b=q7UDxZps8FsvPJM+dJcaPsspqvJ6DIrykMIICekJ+nzDbLTSArkGaZ+rcJbslMXQxEw/40XNnb4Eu+qO+pmeHQ+x3yPbPXzhliGXOKUuZ/doI0zQl54wMT9JFKsXdQja40KLrppIsXEUBhXDUVFmwfZ4PXskbhj/viyfo/Jkui5+EOBZ+oe1FdARCOsWiqcIMqqwk3l44kaqOIVFXnI1YcSlIYadhklst5yV7iqCEwraxJHvnlDswmwpB22GfVfRvBCJzMS8H2LWySlKS3HO4szzaNXsv26nH4n9175BUx2zwE9/knUjGODNa4N1YFWDJjO+sgJOxbE/8sIlRemYqg==
X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048;
 t=1678755182; bh=7TDkL1qxN/43jLCSJkpBWnKibUZ+a10l+2wL6C+R5ua=;
 h=X-Sonic-MF:From:To:Subject:Date:From:Subject;
 b=bGpHYKbkOTqZzKV4eCaAgnJxzN1paR0L6w+WiahXRTsFy7ZIdqpojCKxHh0//27pMQZHD0MoppdmKcxUyU7aKKB4mNT5Kc94eTyux85ro5vnxuGkSN5X5mQC8pywjZYtGhAifbjlfh7nRVoZwPGCAlS2x/sLdzssrsppkKXtJL9r1yu3vtMOjmo0Xtu+6jtSVGf9hoEw66AqwgZY1pCx2oRNzXG+uh53fkoHpndETtPqNZssysvzrvFpM/N2c/n6ckjA5Og7USzdiGeeYI17WZBu+nePakkvEGWnFqj8UlHXJHk/dV6dXjV513aUjSVYExVT9o7ZkVepKV5auDeb4g==
X-YMail-OSG: L2UBhMwVM1nwR0TAoaUiU3uqFF7X42as1EHNyBJsRK_rqVQ532a.OOr7VQUa2gj
 jtaB88WmYn_jDKaOIEIuEqa2y9gnt3b.lMNcr6YkdV2JESQLkCWnpVgLp0FCBrSM7wCAKE5rjLAZ
 jTjFGelYBqDYxmG0510x4IMolRvcdIUpPxNRmh9bhGV7p5RvU75zmHJL7f_78UZwXSP4PloX7qRR
 61TBnQmPvCo675tGyzX2E4I0RgxzGQFhG5koI00Lx_jxq839r.wyRE4fSw7JkDDForwN7ChGF2Eu
 cHCtpEO.OnQlj8SLD5EXHnAA9DMgngwa4fUmyL9n3weiu0FTuIO3S6RB56DVZr0yRyQQ_rjVodHc
 v_beUeEy36TyNyYaOoT91zprr.VoLRBfAFZxQbnuQbQGxqBRZGDwYIukFnVKyov.ULo00PI6L010
 oBNE5ijdu3h6nS7iT9LfA3cQm20RmwxnlP_F5KK87S5j2aCIBKCJ6T_FzUME8s9snwDdy9EYECD2
 ArqhPLXR_QXoVJl4pmOg7CeNz2ATBEMI.0x.5q_BcTUlHCyZVR.vUY4M0CGobYhAIBLiS90yh1ZW
 N92qN.pjRfhVI0rRlLSeNCoPHWLFJeNm4dB8eCng.vP2inbMFtWhfhAgEJJFR0.p2gZ80WAdkJql
 DBlhaF3Tm4nJ3ZATqhAcjufkVwkeU6AlHSOc_1xaNsjoh3l3_qywZjW5Jzm0s6nxwKUuhHUvAWUI
 cKZ0BTF3.E01.L.DrtxTmlDp8B5iKFM1Ow7081JN2sNREp0IL9dNJryEEhFHPznfd3bwEOQivd2w
 6B27bOAeIq4wHMvSHXMaoCRizqYS3U4mhSeg08PuwDm4WxWu7YykaVxLmd3aiMAV6aMx08HwT8I6
 AEDvSnXZ3vyNq41qtYcv9Nmuy9K0dYHJ49ys4HieCAkIG2X6hlm2A1WW6LEpgw4gD37iQDJjZ9OU
 RLarJQGCrkVB68SBUEuR4rYaqL51MMiyB.4QlRhLkuGRtLtx_895kkUNiB0._UBvL4EI06hjpsFh
 UOcH.96ZZiKmYlj7pNklq71_ZblEMqI1eHE6.6kuUCtJC.IMMzVqA6jTwkLx486dW7IYVEs6M_V2
 ULbYnwpOShpMqPD5_9AOlYawPXos_u4KyKvX2VcNW6y9yVQM0XZ3S36GIbWZZTE1yIBxNPZbhwAo
 c.ytrateuKvQtT8JsoJxLYqVQGJgd2prGjOaanNQWvPUJbcq7xNiT3k3z7cPMQ3AwG7mjIaU85K1
 pGjM_mIr69BzfbqDze6DCKQwFfall4r_Dac7D1vSCYhc9SXSrj5PUUtkogxKb27P_8sHxTP0_WKM
 91niFnCL3IRXXpCv6FzvkZg22_.MImx1aWNUZnXRFiayYQAZD7s0iWFxlvuncKg9W0TNO_nQHvK2
 HG1ljoHX2suwggEjCZr77wXMkKn6lBw7yV6hNe0egWrZJeqiNxiND9kLJj3JR08SLuxqXMyn6BB2
 1AjXWCXTXs43TTY3hViS24wRaFwsi.3Lbp3sRYr6aP_2My210QHQt_dnVckMrP4J_CKLtYH41CpM
 t36EACwUVRFGm4yfmQT1S4Lz.C1RtzhPMaIRtIKHAj3Y94CK6mPyyNEhSSuuuukITINHVGG2Y4op
 3q7LClumN3AKrrQ1ZF22A4UgBM5OR2WecU86mNDA91XL5MncD_3S6YvK4Q9juNZzUcmT8Cfo65eE
 2Lt3v8FmAujSb6jOSXetMsl2whw1P_3OWvZLspwB3ii_zF4Yjl4ia2hsaGUAnTjcJosTvHyLfFvC
 Ez8WqfxQcRtKpcifSicQ7ms7wDQmakxengX4Lxx9O9HcAMaW7BUa73YMzk7I_ojHxSsnnWh2lE_h
 vpRCu3W2WTQggmpzRx7OnupYhZL1A9kSJcv7McAwAfSebPowigkm6kRMOMIjeIXneRaeryDeopcM
 75esngufEkHckH2Wz6.hdwjHtM6Rib6GmXUEDwfT1ISdZWNXi_kQOk8xLLexhbONXeb6tazF62qj
 W1o9M8m09Ajcx1LhIZ6zIcVVsZw6HaSflqDSTm2LxlWQk5k14k1iHf3HUiLMdHhacri98dX2XIzx
 ITNucrkqN9riGYQyD7_FO7UbqZSxSl6JHRX.BXEAnV4SfkNpZyJcFD8KDaFVBW0sWvhYN7nXrtvN
 Ik5l8VyizV4RgilI8QlMg2fIMzGtcpUPf95HmrH91FkYCPCO93y9QqzO5lBAJtCQnSSU6.psQ1ZH
 KuGEaTsQxwsaDL7XOOOMHHzJ3RcCDXvcy8NzS0lTgz2BLQcJDjmVnVO_rV9ZU1RdOgQ--
X-Sonic-MF: <luangruo@HIDDEN>
X-Sonic-ID: 4efc7b00-c8c0-4745-afef-40aef7e23376
Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by
 sonic314.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Tue, 14 Mar 2023 00:53:02 +0000
Received: by hermes--production-sg3-67c57bccff-b6t8r (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP
 Server) with ESMTPA ID 4ab177a0a8f248bf0f8def6f958899ce; 
 Tue, 14 Mar 2023 00:52:55 +0000 (UTC)
From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>
To: Spencer Baugh <sbaugh@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#62170: 29.0.60; the default tool bar icons are ugly to
 modern users and are not customizable
In-Reply-To: <ierzg8go195.fsf@HIDDEN>
 (Spencer Baugh's message of "Mon, 13 Mar 2023 16:16:38 -0400")
References: <ierzg8go195.fsf@HIDDEN>
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2023 08:52:50 +0800
Message-ID: <87h6uo887x.fsf@HIDDEN>
User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.21284
 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo
Content-Length: 1553
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 62170
Cc: 62170 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-)

Spencer Baugh <sbaugh@HIDDEN> writes:

> 1. Open "emacs -Q" and show it to someone who has spent the last 10
> years using popular proprietary applications with big design budgets.
> 2. Point out the tool bar
> 3. Observe a look of disgust pass over their face
> 4. Observe that, if they do still try Emacs, they immediately disable
> tool-bar-mode, even though it's very useful to new users, because it's
> so ugly to them.

Curiously enough, I didn't see that response when I demonstrated Emacs
to a very respectable group of developers who were long time users of MS
Visual Studio...

Instead of ``spent the last 10 years using popular proprietary
applications with big design budgets'', how about ``18 year olds who
have never used anything other than a web browser and a smartphone in
their life?''

> Proposed solution: it should be possible to configure the icons used
> for a tool bar.  Then people could contribute new icon themes which
> don't clash with modern design aesthetics, and eventually one or more
> such icon themes could be adopted into Emacs, and perhaps one could
> even be made the new default icon theme.

Stefan Kangas was working on that.

> Alternatively, we could just throw out the current icons and replace
> them with a minimal and abstract design which hopefully would have
> mass appeal.  But maybe there are people who really like the current
> icons and would be upset about that?

I do.  Every supposedly ``modern'' set of icons proposed lacks color
contrast, making them indistinguishable from each other.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#62170; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Mar 2023 20:16:50 +0000
From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Mar 13 16:16:50 2023
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35675 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1pbobA-0004Qn-Qe
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 13 Mar 2023 16:16:50 -0400
Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:45442)
 by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
 (envelope-from <sbaugh@HIDDEN>) id 1pbob7-0004Qd-3u
 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 13 Mar 2023 16:16:46 -0400
Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10])
 by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256)
 (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <sbaugh@HIDDEN>)
 id 1pbob6-0000OZ-Rd
 for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Mon, 13 Mar 2023 16:16:44 -0400
Received: from mxout5.mail.janestreet.com ([64.215.233.18])
 by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256)
 (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <sbaugh@HIDDEN>)
 id 1pbob3-0006vC-Dc
 for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Mon, 13 Mar 2023 16:16:44 -0400
From: Spencer Baugh <sbaugh@HIDDEN>
To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
Subject: 29.0.60; the default tool bar icons are ugly to modern users and
 are not customizable
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2023 16:16:38 -0400
Message-ID: <ierzg8go195.fsf@HIDDEN>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Received-SPF: pass client-ip=64.215.233.18; envelope-from=sbaugh@HIDDEN;
 helo=mxout5.mail.janestreet.com
X-Spam_score_int: -18
X-Spam_score: -1.9
X-Spam_bar: -
X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001,
 SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
X-Spam_action: no action
X-Spam-Score: -1.4 (-)
X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -2.4 (--)


1. Open "emacs -Q" and show it to someone who has spent the last 10
years using popular proprietary applications with big design budgets.
2. Point out the tool bar
3. Observe a look of disgust pass over their face
4. Observe that, if they do still try Emacs, they immediately disable
tool-bar-mode, even though it's very useful to new users, because it's
so ugly to them.

Proposed solution: it should be possible to configure the icons used
for a tool bar.  Then people could contribute new icon themes which
don't clash with modern design aesthetics, and eventually one or more
such icon themes could be adopted into Emacs, and perhaps one could
even be made the new default icon theme.

Alternatively, we could just throw out the current icons and replace
them with a minimal and abstract design which hopefully would have
mass appeal.  But maybe there are people who really like the current
icons and would be upset about that?


In GNU Emacs 29.0.60 (build 3, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, X toolkit, cairo
 version 1.15.12, Xaw scroll bars) of 2023-03-13 built on
 igm-qws-u22796a
Repository revision: e759905d2e0828eac4c8164b09113b40f6899656
Repository branch: emacs-29
Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.12011000
System Description: CentOS Linux 7 (Core)

Configured using:
 'configure --with-x-toolkit=lucid --with-modules
 --with-gif=ifavailable'

Configured features:
CAIRO DBUS FREETYPE GLIB GMP GNUTLS GSETTINGS HARFBUZZ JPEG JSON
LIBSELINUX LIBXML2 MODULES NOTIFY INOTIFY PDUMPER PNG RSVG SECCOMP
SOUND SQLITE3 THREADS TIFF TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS X11 XDBE XIM XINPUT2
XPM LUCID ZLIB

Important settings:
  value of $LANG: en_US.UTF-8
  locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix

Major mode: Eshell

Minor modes in effect:
  eshell-prompt-mode: t
  eshell-hist-mode: t
  eshell-pred-mode: t
  eshell-cmpl-mode: t
  eshell-proc-mode: t
  eshell-arg-mode: t
  which-function-mode: t
  global-git-commit-mode: t
  magit-auto-revert-mode: t
  shell-dirtrack-mode: t
  windmove-mode: t
  savehist-mode: t
  save-place-mode: t
  tooltip-mode: t
  global-eldoc-mode: t
  show-paren-mode: t
  electric-indent-mode: t
  mouse-wheel-mode: t
  tab-bar-mode: t
  menu-bar-mode: t
  file-name-shadow-mode: t
  global-font-lock-mode: t
  font-lock-mode: t
  blink-cursor-mode: t
  line-number-mode: t
  transient-mark-mode: t
  auto-composition-mode: t
  auto-encryption-mode: t
  auto-compression-mode: t

Load-path shadows:
/j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/tuareg/ocamldebug hides /home/sbaugh/.emacs.d/elpa/tuareg-20220929.1327/ocamldebug
/j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/tuareg/tuareg hides /home/sbaugh/.emacs.d/elpa/tuareg-20220929.1327/tuareg
/j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/tuareg/tuareg-compat hides /home/sbaugh/.emacs.d/elpa/tuareg-20220929.1327/tuareg-compat
/j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/tuareg/tuareg-menhir hides /home/sbaugh/.emacs.d/elpa/tuareg-20220929.1327/tuareg-menhir
/j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/tuareg/tuareg-pkg hides /home/sbaugh/.emacs.d/elpa/tuareg-20220929.1327/tuareg-pkg
/j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/tuareg/tuareg-opam hides /home/sbaugh/.emacs.d/elpa/tuareg-20220929.1327/tuareg-opam
/j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/caml-font hides /home/sbaugh/.emacs.d/elpa/caml-20230129.1145/caml-font
/home/sbaugh/.emacs.d/elpa/transient-20230201.1644/transient hides /home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/transient
/j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/csharp-mode hides /home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/progmodes/csharp-mode
/j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/eldoc hides /home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/emacs-lisp/eldoc
/home/sbaugh/.emacs.d/elpa/popup-20221231.1634/popup-autoloads hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/popup/popup-autoloads
/home/sbaugh/.emacs.d/elpa/popup-20221231.1634/popup hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/popup/popup
/j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/auctex/lpath hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/dictionary/lpath
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/net/dictionary hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/dictionary/dictionary
/home/sbaugh/.emacs.d/elpa/caml-20230129.1145/caml-font-old hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/ocaml/caml-font-old
/home/sbaugh/.emacs.d/elpa/caml-20230129.1145/inf-caml hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/ocaml/inf-caml
/home/sbaugh/.emacs.d/elpa/caml-20230129.1145/camldebug hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/ocaml/camldebug
/j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/caml-font hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/ocaml/caml-font
/home/sbaugh/.emacs.d/elpa/caml-20230129.1145/caml-help hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/ocaml/caml-help
/home/sbaugh/.emacs.d/elpa/caml-20230129.1145/caml-types hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/ocaml/caml-types
/home/sbaugh/.emacs.d/elpa/caml-20230129.1145/caml hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/ocaml/caml
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ob-ocaml hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ob-ocaml
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ol-w3m hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ol-w3m
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/org-version hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/org-version
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ob-shell hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ob-shell
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ol-info hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ol-info
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ob-eval hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ob-eval
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/org-num hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/org-num
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ol hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ol
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/org-compat hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/org-compat
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ob-haskell hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ob-haskell
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/org-agenda hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/org-agenda
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/org-clock hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/org-clock
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ob-R hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ob-R
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ol-rmail hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ol-rmail
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ox-ascii hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ox-ascii
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ob-plantuml hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ob-plantuml
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ob-C hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ob-C
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/org-colview hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/org-colview
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/org-archive hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/org-archive
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/org-indent hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/org-indent
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ob-calc hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ob-calc
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ob-org hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ob-org
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ob-css hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ob-css
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/org-loaddefs hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/org-loaddefs
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ol-eww hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ol-eww
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/org-src hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/org-src
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ob-perl hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ob-perl
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/org-duration hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/org-duration
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ox-md hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ox-md
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/org-inlinetask hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/org-inlinetask
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/org-faces hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/org-faces
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ob-lob hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ob-lob
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/org-plot hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/org-plot
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ob-python hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ob-python
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ob-emacs-lisp hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ob-emacs-lisp
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/org-keys hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/org-keys
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ob-sed hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ob-sed
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ob-ditaa hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ob-ditaa
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ob-js hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ob-js
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ob-maxima hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ob-maxima
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ob-sqlite hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ob-sqlite
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/org-footnote hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/org-footnote
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ox-beamer hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ox-beamer
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/org-mouse hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/org-mouse
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/org-habit hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/org-habit
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/org-element hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/org-element
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ob-fortran hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ob-fortran
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ob-scheme hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ob-scheme
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ob hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ob
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/org-entities hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/org-entities
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ob-tangle hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ob-tangle
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ob-ruby hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ob-ruby
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ob-lua hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ob-lua
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ob-ref hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ob-ref
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ol-gnus hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ol-gnus
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ob-gnuplot hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ob-gnuplot
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ob-core hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ob-core
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ox-icalendar hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ox-icalendar
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/org-id hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/org-id
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/org-crypt hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/org-crypt
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/org-datetree hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/org-datetree
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ol-docview hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ol-docview
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ob-sql hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ob-sql
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ol-irc hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ol-irc
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ox-odt hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ox-odt
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ol-bbdb hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ol-bbdb
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ox-latex hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ox-latex
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/org-macs hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/org-macs
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/org-capture hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/org-capture
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ob-latex hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ob-latex
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/org-attach hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/org-attach
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ob-makefile hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ob-makefile
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ob-processing hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ob-processing
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ob-sass hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ob-sass
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ob-screen hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ob-screen
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/org-lint hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/org-lint
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/org-mobile hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/org-mobile
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ox-org hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ox-org
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ol-bibtex hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ol-bibtex
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/org-protocol hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/org-protocol
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ox hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ox
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ob-octave hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ob-octave
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/org-attach-git hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/org-attach-git
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/org-ctags hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/org-ctags
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/org-list hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/org-list
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ob-matlab hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ob-matlab
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ob-eshell hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ob-eshell
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ob-java hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ob-java
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ob-exp hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ob-exp
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ol-mhe hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ol-mhe
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ox-publish hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ox-publish
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/org-pcomplete hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/org-pcomplete
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ob-lisp hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ob-lisp
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/org-tempo hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/org-tempo
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/org-macro hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/org-macro
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/org-timer hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/org-timer
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ob-forth hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ob-forth
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ob-comint hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ob-comint
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ox-man hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ox-man
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ox-html hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ox-html
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/org-goto hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/org-goto
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ob-awk hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ob-awk
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/org hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/org
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ob-table hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ob-table
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ob-clojure hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ob-clojure
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ol-eshell hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ol-eshell
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ob-dot hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ob-dot
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ox-texinfo hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ox-texinfo
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ob-lilypond hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ob-lilypond
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ob-groovy hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/ob-groovy
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/org-feed hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/org-feed
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/org-table hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/lisp/org-table
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ox-koma-letter hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/contrib/lisp/ox-koma-letter
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ob-julia hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/contrib/lisp/ob-julia
/home/sbaugh/.emacs.d/elpa/htmlize-20210825.2150/htmlize hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/contrib/lisp/htmlize
/home/sbaugh/.local/src/emacs29/lisp/org/ol-man hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/org/contrib/lisp/ol-man
/home/sbaugh/.emacs.d/elpa/dash-20221013.836/dash hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/dash/dash
/home/sbaugh/.emacs.d/elpa/s-20220902.1511/s hides /j/office/app/emacs/prod/.sink-2023-03-08_21-28-38.208139/jane-elisp/elisp/contrib/s/s

Features:
(shadow sort mail-extr emacsbug em-unix em-term term disp-table ehelp
em-script em-prompt em-ls em-hist em-pred em-glob em-extpipe em-cmpl
em-dirs esh-var em-basic em-banner em-alias esh-mode eshell esh-cmd
esh-ext esh-opt esh-proc esh-io esh-arg esh-module esh-groups esh-util
cus-edit cus-start cus-load misc vc-bzr vc-src vc-sccs vc-svn vc-cvs
vc-rcs vc-dir semantic/symref/grep semantic/symref semantic/util-modes
semantic/util semantic semantic/tag semantic/lex semantic/fw cedet
dabbrev pulse dired-aux vc cc-mode cc-fonts cc-guess cc-menus cc-cmds
cc-styles cc-align cc-engine cc-vars cc-defs vc-git files-x
jane-project completion dos-w32 find-cmd find-dired bug-reference
perl-mode cperl-mode facemenu tex-mode mode-local tabify org-capture
misearch multi-isearch emacs-news-mode rect sql face-remap org-agenda
org-element org-persist org-id org-refile avl-tree generator oc-basic
ol-eww eww xdg url-queue mm-url ol-rmail ol-mhe ol-irc ol-info ol-gnus
nnselect gnus-art mm-uu mml2015 mm-view mml-smime smime dig gnus-sum
shr pixel-fill kinsoku url-file svg dom gnus-group gnus-undo
gnus-start gnus-dbus dbus xml gnus-cloud nnimap nnmail mail-source
utf7 nnoo parse-time gnus-spec gnus-int gnus-range gnus-win gnus
nnheader range wid-edit ol-docview doc-view jka-compr image-mode exif
ol-bibtex bibtex iso8601 ol-bbdb ol-w3m ol-doi org-link-doi
vc-dispatcher log-view vc-hg hl-line display-line-numbers shortdoc
help-fns radix-tree cl-print sh-script treesit executable goto-addr
jane-merlin merlin-imenu merlin-xref xref merlin-cap merlin
jane-merlin-configuration-via-jmerlin jane-async-merlin
jane-completion utop utop-minor-mode jane-common ecaml_plugin linum
gopcaml magit-bookmark bookmark image+ image-file image-converter
whitespace jane-auto-modes vba-mode markdown-mode color jane
jane-micro-features grep jane-diff unified-test-mode shell-file core
core-buffer core-error core-util ert pp ewoc debug backtrace jane-sexp
jane-ocaml jane-tuareg-theme tuareg tuareg-compat tuareg-opam skeleton
flymake-proc flymake warnings smie caml-types caml-help view find-file
compile jane-cr jane-align jane-deprecated jane-smerge
gnu-elpa-keyring-update jane-ocp-indent ocp-indent cl jane-util
page-ext dired-x magit-extras project magit-submodule magit-obsolete
magit-blame magit-stash magit-reflog magit-bisect magit-push
magit-pull magit-fetch magit-clone magit-remote magit-commit
magit-sequence magit-notes magit-worktree magit-tag magit-merge
magit-branch magit-reset magit-files magit-refs magit-status magit
magit-repos magit-apply magit-wip magit-log which-func imenu
magit-diff smerge-mode diff git-commit log-edit message sendmail
yank-media dired dired-loaddefs rfc822 mml mml-sec epa derived epg
rfc6068 epg-config gnus-util text-property-search mm-decode mm-bodies
mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231 rfc2047 rfc2045 mm-util ietf-drums
mail-prsvr mailabbrev mail-utils gmm-utils mailheader pcvs-util
add-log magit-core magit-autorevert autorevert filenotify magit-margin
magit-transient magit-process with-editor pcase shell server
magit-mode transient edmacro kmacro magit-git magit-base magit-section
crm dash compat compat-29 compat-28 cl-extra windmove lui-autopaste
circe advice diff-mode lui-irc-colors irc gnutls puny lcs lui-logging
lui-format lui tracking shorten help-mode flyspell ispell circe-compat
org ob ob-tangle ob-ref ob-lob ob-table ob-exp org-macro org-src
ob-comint org-pcomplete pcomplete org-list org-footnote org-faces
org-entities time-date noutline outline icons ob-emacs-lisp ob-core
ob-eval org-cycle org-table ol org-fold org-fold-core org-keys oc
org-loaddefs find-func cal-menu calendar cal-loaddefs org-version
org-compat org-macs format-spec gdb-mi bindat gud easy-mmode comint
ansi-osc ansi-color ring cyberpunk-theme ffap thingatpt savehist
saveplace finder-inf rx info package browse-url url url-proxy
url-privacy url-expand url-methods url-history url-cookie
generate-lisp-file url-domsuf url-util mailcap url-handlers url-parse
auth-source cl-seq eieio eieio-core cl-macs password-cache json subr-x
map byte-opt gv bytecomp byte-compile url-vars cl-loaddefs cl-lib rmc
iso-transl tooltip cconv eldoc paren electric uniquify ediff-hook
vc-hooks lisp-float-type elisp-mode mwheel term/x-win x-win
term/common-win x-dnd tool-bar dnd fontset image regexp-opt fringe
tabulated-list replace newcomment text-mode lisp-mode prog-mode
register page tab-bar menu-bar rfn-eshadow isearch easymenu timer
select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax font-core
term/tty-colors frame minibuffer nadvice seq simple cl-generic
indonesian philippine cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese
tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese eucjp-ms cp51932 hebrew
greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese
composite emoji-zwj charscript charprop case-table epa-hook
jka-cmpr-hook help abbrev obarray oclosure cl-preloaded button
loaddefs theme-loaddefs faces cus-face macroexp files window
text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule
custom widget keymap hashtable-print-readable backquote threads
dbusbind inotify dynamic-setting system-font-setting
font-render-setting cairo x-toolkit xinput2 x multi-tty
make-network-process emacs)

Memory information:
((conses 16 1504415 111904)
 (symbols 48 53054 1)
 (strings 32 228790 20016)
 (string-bytes 1 27315748)
 (vectors 16 113251)
 (vector-slots 8 1665931 316200)
 (floats 8 1475 1306)
 (intervals 56 132917 1104)
 (buffers 976 94)
 (heap 1024 711495 253634))




Acknowledgement sent to Spencer Baugh <sbaugh@HIDDEN>:
New bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN. Full text available.
Report forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#62170; Package emacs. Full text available.
Please note: This is a static page, with minimal formatting, updated once a day.
Click here to see this page with the latest information and nicer formatting.
Last modified: Mon, 4 Sep 2023 09:00:02 UTC

GNU bug tracking system
Copyright (C) 1999 Darren O. Benham, 1997 nCipher Corporation Ltd, 1994-97 Ian Jackson.