GNU bug report logs - #62233
Using Emacs Lisp

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Andrew Goh <andrewgoh95 <at> yahoo.com.sg>
To: "bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org" <bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org>
Subject: Using Emacs Lisp
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2023 07:26:35 +0000 (UTC)

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Hi FSF,
I was wondering if the FSF can turn Emacs Lisp into a tool that is as easy to use as two of these mainstream Lisp environments - Allegro Common Lisp and LispWorks.  And to do away with difficult to remember commands such as C-x C-m for example, if there is such a thing.
Otherwise, its a free and useful tool for learning Lisp and using it for AI. 
That's all I have to say.
--- Andrew Goh

[Message part 2 (text/html, inline)]

Message #8 received at 62233 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Philip Kaludercic <philipk <at> posteo.net>
To: Andrew Goh <andrewgoh95 <at> yahoo.com.sg>
Cc: 62233 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#62233: Using Emacs Lisp
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2023 08:13:32 +0000

Andrew Goh <andrewgoh95 <at> yahoo.com.sg> writes:

> Hi FSF,
> I was wondering if the FSF can turn Emacs Lisp into a tool that is as
> easy to use as two of these mainstream Lisp environments - Allegro
> Common Lisp and LispWorks.  And to do away with difficult to remember
> commands such as C-x C-m for example, if there is such a thing.
> Otherwise, its a free and useful tool for learning Lisp and using it for AI. 
> That's all I have to say.
> --- Andrew Goh

You can already write Emacs Lisp code using Nano or vi and run the code
using "emacs --script".  The discussion to abandon the Emacs UI comes up
from time to time and is usually fruitless.  There are a lot of people
who are used to and like keychords and a lot of packages rely on them,
so it would not be worth betraying them.  There are people who write
scripts that make Emacs emulate different kinds of editors.  I believe
that would be the best way forwards for what you are looking to do.

Also, I believe you wanted to address GNU, specifically the Emacs maintainers.

-- 
Philip Kaludercic

Message #11 received at 62233 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Jean Louis <bugs <at> gnu.support>
To: Philip Kaludercic <philipk <at> posteo.net>
Cc: 62233 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Andrew Goh <andrewgoh95 <at> yahoo.com.sg>
Subject: Re: bug#62233: Using Emacs Lisp
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2023 06:42:40 +0300

* Philip Kaludercic <philipk <at> posteo.net> [2023-03-17 11:14]:
> You can already write Emacs Lisp code using Nano or vi and run the code
> using "emacs --script".

Is there practical example?

-- 
Jean

Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns:
https://www.fsf.org/campaigns

In support of Richard M. Stallman
https://stallmansupport.org/

Message #14 received at 62233 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Jean Louis <bugs <at> gnu.support>
To: Andrew Goh <andrewgoh95 <at> yahoo.com.sg>
Cc: 62233 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#62233: Using Emacs Lisp
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2023 06:46:22 +0300

* Andrew Goh via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors <bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org> [2023-03-17 10:29]:

> I was wondering if the FSF can turn Emacs Lisp into a tool that is
> as easy to use as two of 

Thanks.

Can you tell what it means "as easy to use"? Can you describe what
makes it easy?

> these mainstream Lisp environments - Allegro Common Lisp and
> LispWorks.

They may be "main" in proprietary world, where commercial companies
dictate over their users, while in free software world, they can't
compare. I guess that SBLC could be the main free software Common Lisp
implementation.

-- 
Jean

Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns:
https://www.fsf.org/campaigns

In support of Richard M. Stallman
https://stallmansupport.org/

Message #17 received at 62233 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Philip Kaludercic <philipk <at> posteo.net>
To: Jean Louis <bugs <at> gnu.support>
Cc: 62233 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Andrew Goh <andrewgoh95 <at> yahoo.com.sg>
Subject: Re: bug#62233: Using Emacs Lisp
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2023 07:39:35 +0000

Jean Louis <bugs <at> gnu.support> writes:

> * Philip Kaludercic <philipk <at> posteo.net> [2023-03-17 11:14]:
>> You can already write Emacs Lisp code using Nano or vi and run the code
>> using "emacs --script".
>
> Is there practical example?

I am not sure what you mean, but since Emacs Lisp is just plain text you
can write it using any editor.  You will not have the advantages of
doing so inside a interactive environment like Emacs, but it is still
possible.

-- 
Philip Kaludercic

Message #22 received at 62233-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com>
To: Andrew Goh <andrewgoh95 <at> yahoo.com.sg>
Cc: 62233-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#62233: Using Emacs Lisp
Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2023 17:17:56 -0700

Andrew Goh <andrewgoh95 <at> yahoo.com.sg> writes:

> Hi FSF,
>
> I was wondering if the FSF can turn Emacs Lisp into a tool that is as
> easy to use as two of these mainstream Lisp environments - Allegro
> Common Lisp and LispWorks.  And to do away with difficult to remember
> commands such as C-x C-m for example, if there is such a thing.
>
> Otherwise, its a free and useful tool for learning Lisp and using it
> for AI.
>
> That's all I have to say.

Thanks for your feedback.  We are continuously working on making Emacs
Lisp easier to use.  I don't think we can simplify commands much though,
but we trying when we can.  Emacs is an old piece of software, which
means that some of the conventions we follow may seem outdated.
However, many users use and depend on them, and it wouldn't be fair to
them to just throw out all those conventions out in one go.  We
therefore improve them incrementally, and sometimes it's slow going.

I don't see anything actionable here, so I'm closing the bug report.

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