GNU bug report logs - #62248
29.0.60; nil obsolete

Previous Next

To add a comment to this bug, you must first unarchive it, by sending
a message to control AT debbugs.gnu.org, with unarchive 62248 in the body.
You can then email your comments to 62248 AT debbugs.gnu.org in the normal way.

Toggle the display of automated, internal messages from the tracker.

Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Po Lu <luangruo <at> yahoo.com>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: 29.0.60; nil obsolete
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2023 10:48:07 +0800

Type:

  C-h v nil RET

Emacs will describe `nil' as obsolete since 29.1.
That is absurd.

Message #8 received at 62248 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Po Lu <luangruo <at> yahoo.com>
Cc: 62248 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#62248: 29.0.60; nil obsolete
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2023 08:16:54 +0200

> Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2023 10:48:07 +0800
> From:  Po Lu via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs,
>  the Swiss army knife of text editors" <bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org>
> 
> Type:
> 
>   C-h v nil RET
> 
> Emacs will describe `nil' as obsolete since 29.1.

I cannot reproduce this.  I tried MS-Windows and GNU/Linux.  I get:

  nil’s value is nil

  Not documented as a variable.

    Probably introduced at or before Emacs version 1.6.

which looks reasonable enough.

Message #11 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Michael Welsh Duggan <mwd <at> md5i.com>
To: Po Lu via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text
 editors" <bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org>
Cc: Po Lu <luangruo <at> yahoo.com>, 62248 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#62248: 29.0.60; nil obsolete
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2023 02:52:57 -0400

Po Lu via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text
editors" <bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org> writes:

> Type:
>
>   C-h v nil RET
>
> Emacs will describe `nil' as obsolete since 29.1.
> That is absurd.

Happens for me too, but not with -Q.  So some common package is causing
this, likely by accident.

-- 
Michael Welsh Duggan
(md5i <at> md5i.com)

Message #17 received at 62248 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Michael Welsh Duggan <mwd <at> md5i.com>
Cc: luangruo <at> yahoo.com, 62248 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#62248: 29.0.60; nil obsolete
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2023 09:05:11 +0200

> Cc: luangruo <at> yahoo.com
> From: Michael Welsh Duggan <mwd <at> md5i.com>
> Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2023 02:52:57 -0400
> 
> Po Lu via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text
> editors" <bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org> writes:
> 
> > Type:
> >
> >   C-h v nil RET
> >
> > Emacs will describe `nil' as obsolete since 29.1.
> > That is absurd.
> 
> Happens for me too, but not with -Q.  So some common package is causing
> this, likely by accident.

Can you step through help-fns--var-obsolete and tell what you see
there?  E.g., does (get nil 'byte-obsolete-variable) return non-nil?

If so, how about running Emacs with a breakpoint in Fput and condition
that symbol == Qnil (assuming your Emacs is not configured to
represent Lisp objects as structs)?

Message #20 received at 62248 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Michael Welsh Duggan <mwd <at> md5i.com>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: Michael Welsh Duggan <mwd <at> md5i.com>, 62248 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
 luangruo <at> yahoo.com
Subject: Re: bug#62248: 29.0.60; nil obsolete
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2023 03:15:11 -0400

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:

>> Cc: luangruo <at> yahoo.com
>> From: Michael Welsh Duggan <mwd <at> md5i.com>
>> Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2023 02:52:57 -0400
>> 
>> Po Lu via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text
>> editors" <bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org> writes:
>> 
>> > Type:
>> >
>> >   C-h v nil RET
>> >
>> > Emacs will describe `nil' as obsolete since 29.1.
>> > That is absurd.
>> 
>> Happens for me too, but not with -Q.  So some common package is causing
>> this, likely by accident.
>
> Can you step through help-fns--var-obsolete and tell what you see
> there?  E.g., does (get nil 'byte-obsolete-variable) return non-nil?
>
> If so, how about running Emacs with a breakpoint in Fput and condition
> that symbol == Qnil (assuming your Emacs is not configured to
> represent Lisp objects as structs)?

I traced it, in my instance, to this line from url-gw.el:

(make-obsolete-variable url-gw-rlogin-obsolete-warned-once nil "29.1")

Maybe `make-obsolete-variable' should warn or error with nil as its
initial argument.

-- 
Michael Welsh Duggan
(md5i <at> md5i.com)

Message #23 received at 62248 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: mwd <at> md5i.com, luangruo <at> yahoo.com
Cc: 62248 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#62248: 29.0.60; nil obsolete
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2023 09:16:30 +0200

> Cc: luangruo <at> yahoo.com, 62248 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2023 09:05:11 +0200
> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
> 
> If so, how about running Emacs with a breakpoint in Fput and condition
> that symbol == Qnil (assuming your Emacs is not configured to
> represent Lisp objects as structs)?

Or how about adding

  if (NILP (symbol) || EQ (symbol, Qt))
    emacs_abort ();

to Fput, and then run with this under GDB?

Message #26 received at 62248 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Michael Welsh Duggan <mwd <at> md5i.com>
Cc: luangruo <at> yahoo.com, 62248 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#62248: 29.0.60; nil obsolete
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2023 09:22:37 +0200

> From: Michael Welsh Duggan <mwd <at> md5i.com>
> Cc: Michael Welsh Duggan <mwd <at> md5i.com>,  62248 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
>   luangruo <at> yahoo.com
> Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2023 03:15:11 -0400
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:
> 
> > If so, how about running Emacs with a breakpoint in Fput and condition
> > that symbol == Qnil (assuming your Emacs is not configured to
> > represent Lisp objects as structs)?
> 
> I traced it, in my instance, to this line from url-gw.el:
> 
> (make-obsolete-variable url-gw-rlogin-obsolete-warned-once nil "29.1")

OK, I already found (by different means) that one, and fixed it (and
another similar one in url-misc).

> Maybe `make-obsolete-variable' should warn or error with nil as its
> initial argument.

We could install something like that on master, yes.  But then we
should also warn if the symbol is t, I think.

Message #29 received at 62248 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Po Lu <luangruo <at> yahoo.com>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: Michael Welsh Duggan <mwd <at> md5i.com>, 62248 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#62248: 29.0.60; nil obsolete
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2023 15:28:17 +0800

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:

> Can you step through help-fns--var-obsolete and tell what you see
> there?  E.g., does (get nil 'byte-obsolete-variable) return non-nil?

Yes, (get nil 'byte-obsolete-variable) returns:

  (nil nil "29.1")

> If so, how about running Emacs with a breakpoint in Fput and condition
> that symbol == Qnil (assuming your Emacs is not configured to
> represent Lisp objects as structs)?

I will try that.

Message #32 received at 62248 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Po Lu <luangruo <at> yahoo.com>
To: Michael Welsh Duggan <mwd <at> md5i.com>
Cc: 62248 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Subject: Re: bug#62248: 29.0.60; nil obsolete
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2023 15:29:13 +0800

Michael Welsh Duggan <mwd <at> md5i.com> writes:

> I traced it, in my instance, to this line from url-gw.el:
>
> (make-obsolete-variable url-gw-rlogin-obsolete-warned-once nil "29.1")

Ah, thanks!  This saves me quite some trouble.
This should be:

  (make-obsolete-variable 'url-gw-rlogin-obsolete-warned-once nil "29.1")

Message #37 received at 62248-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: Michael Welsh Duggan <mwd <at> md5i.com>, luangruo <at> yahoo.com,
 62248-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#62248: 29.0.60; nil obsolete
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2023 16:02:36 -0700

Version: 30.1

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:

>> Maybe `make-obsolete-variable' should warn or error with nil as its
>> initial argument.
>
> We could install something like that on master, yes.  But then we
> should also warn if the symbol is t, I think.

I made it error in that case, so I'm closing the bug.

Previous Next

GNU bug tracking system
Copyright (C) 1999 Darren O. Benham, 1997,2003 nCipher Corporation Ltd, 1994-97 Ian Jackson.