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charset="UTF-8" In the past if you did: cp --no-clobber $in $out And "out" existed, "cp" exited with 0. But now, with coreutils 9.2, it exists with 1. Is this on purpose? (When replying include my email in the field "to", as I'm not subscribed to this list) --00000000000081f54d05f8352834 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div>In the past if you did:</div><div>cp --no-clobber $in= $out</div><div><br></div><div>And "out" existed, "cp" = exited with 0. But now, with coreutils 9.2, it exists with 1.</div><div><br= ></div><div>Is this on purpose?</div><div><br></div><div>(When replying inc= lude my email in the field "to", as I'm not subscribed to thi= s list)<br></div></div> --00000000000081f54d05f8352834--
Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.505 (Entity 5.505) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN From: help-debbugs@HIDDEN (GNU bug Tracking System) To: Alberto Salvia Novella <es20490446e@HIDDEN> Subject: bug#62572: Acknowledgement (cp --no-clobber behavior has changed) Message-ID: <handler.62572.B.168028490011176.ack <at> debbugs.gnu.org> References: <CAHJvkbsWyJJnN3fi4tmdQa5CxOXg7O+BqZizzDLei1uNpy=bzw@HIDDEN> X-Gnu-PR-Message: ack 62572 X-Gnu-PR-Package: coreutils Reply-To: 62572 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2023 17:49:02 +0000 Thank you for filing a new bug report with debbugs.gnu.org. This is an automatically generated reply to let you know your message has been received. Your message is being forwarded to the package maintainers and other interested parties for their attention; they will reply in due course. Your message has been sent to the package maintainer(s): bug-coreutils@HIDDEN If you wish to submit further information on this problem, please send it to 62572 <at> debbugs.gnu.org. Please do not send mail to help-debbugs@HIDDEN unless you wish to report a problem with the Bug-tracking system. --=20 62572: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D62572 GNU Bug Tracking System Contact help-debbugs@HIDDEN with problems
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#62572: cp --no-clobber behavior has changed Resent-From: Sam James <sam@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-coreutils@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2023 18:33:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.62572.B.168028756716265 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 62572 X-GNU-PR-Package: coreutils X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Alberto Salvia Novella <es20490446e@HIDDEN> Cc: 62572 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, eschwartz93@HIDDEN X-Debbugs-Original-Cc: bug-coreutils@HIDDEN, 62572 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Schwartz <eschwartz93@HIDDEN> Received: via spool by submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B.168028756716265 (code B ref -1); Fri, 31 Mar 2023 18:33:02 +0000 Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Mar 2023 18:32:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34498 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1piJYN-0004EH-01 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 31 Mar 2023 14:32:47 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:58756) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <sam@HIDDEN>) id 1piJYL-0004E9-6e for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 31 Mar 2023 14:32:45 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <sam@HIDDEN>) id 1piJYK-0001J6-N5 for bug-coreutils@HIDDEN; Fri, 31 Mar 2023 14:32:44 -0400 Received: from smtp.gentoo.org ([2001:470:ea4a:1:5054:ff:fec7:86e4]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_CHACHA20_POLY1305:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <sam@HIDDEN>) id 1piJYJ-0007rC-2M for bug-coreutils@HIDDEN; Fri, 31 Mar 2023 14:32:44 -0400 References: <CAHJvkbsWyJJnN3fi4tmdQa5CxOXg7O+BqZizzDLei1uNpy=bzw@HIDDEN> User-agent: mu4e 1.8.14; emacs 29.0.60 From: Sam James <sam@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2023 19:30:47 +0100 In-reply-to: <CAHJvkbsWyJJnN3fi4tmdQa5CxOXg7O+BqZizzDLei1uNpy=bzw@HIDDEN> Message-ID: <878rfczs90.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2001:470:ea4a:1:5054:ff:fec7:86e4; envelope-from=sam@HIDDEN; helo=smtp.gentoo.org X-Spam_score_int: -41 X-Spam_score: -4.2 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.2 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Alberto Salvia Novella <es20490446e@HIDDEN> writes: > In the past if you did: > cp --no-clobber $in $out > > And "out" existed, "cp" exited with 0. But now, with coreutils 9.2, it > exists with 1. > > Is this on purpose? > > (When replying include my email in the field "to", as I'm not subscribed to > this list) We hit this in Gentoo at https://bugs.gentoo.org/902751. We concluded the usage in the ebuild ("build script") was wrong, given that the coreutils-9.2 NEWS says: > 'cp -n' and 'mv -n' now exit with nonzero status if they skip their > action because the destination exists, and likewise for 'cp -i', > 'ln -i', and 'mv -i' when the user declines. (POSIX specifies > this for 'cp -i' and 'mv -i'.) It still was a bit unexpected though given POSIX doesn't specify -n. --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iOUEARYKAI0WIQQlpruI3Zt2TGtVQcJzhAn1IN+RkAUCZCcnPF8UgAAAAAAuAChp c3N1ZXItZnByQG5vdGF0aW9ucy5vcGVucGdwLmZpZnRoaG9yc2VtYW4ubmV0MjVB NkJCODhERDlCNzY0QzZCNTU0MUMyNzM4NDA5RjUyMERGOTE5MA8cc2FtQGdlbnRv by5vcmcACgkQc4QJ9SDfkZDAEwD9GY1uDH31orPzVFT0Co03ERjIX1Uqa0Z+Uxqk 5tGntjYA/RfTXrgjb6fwKJqehmuMr4iiPVFfz+eJlTlDt52TaHwC =DQWT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#62572: cp --no-clobber behavior has changed Resent-From: Sam James <sam@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-coreutils@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2023 18:33:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.62572.B62572.168028756016244 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 62572 X-GNU-PR-Package: coreutils X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Alberto Salvia Novella <es20490446e@HIDDEN> Cc: 62572 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, eschwartz93@HIDDEN X-Debbugs-Original-Cc: bug-coreutils@HIDDEN, 62572 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Schwartz <eschwartz93@HIDDEN> Received: via spool by 62572-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B62572.168028756016244 (code B ref 62572); Fri, 31 Mar 2023 18:33:02 +0000 Received: (at 62572) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Mar 2023 18:32:40 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34495 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1piJYF-0004Dw-Lj for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 31 Mar 2023 14:32:39 -0400 Received: from woodpecker.gentoo.org ([140.211.166.183]:39174 helo=smtp.gentoo.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <sam@HIDDEN>) id 1piJYE-0004Di-Gn for 62572 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 31 Mar 2023 14:32:38 -0400 References: <CAHJvkbsWyJJnN3fi4tmdQa5CxOXg7O+BqZizzDLei1uNpy=bzw@HIDDEN> User-agent: mu4e 1.8.14; emacs 29.0.60 From: Sam James <sam@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2023 19:30:47 +0100 In-reply-to: <CAHJvkbsWyJJnN3fi4tmdQa5CxOXg7O+BqZizzDLei1uNpy=bzw@HIDDEN> Message-ID: <878rfczs90.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Alberto Salvia Novella <es20490446e@HIDDEN> writes: > In the past if you did: > cp --no-clobber $in $out > > And "out" existed, "cp" exited with 0. But now, with coreutils 9.2, it > exists with 1. > > Is this on purpose? > > (When replying include my email in the field "to", as I'm not subscribed to > this list) We hit this in Gentoo at https://bugs.gentoo.org/902751. We concluded the usage in the ebuild ("build script") was wrong, given that the coreutils-9.2 NEWS says: > 'cp -n' and 'mv -n' now exit with nonzero status if they skip their > action because the destination exists, and likewise for 'cp -i', > 'ln -i', and 'mv -i' when the user declines. (POSIX specifies > this for 'cp -i' and 'mv -i'.) It still was a bit unexpected though given POSIX doesn't specify -n. --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iOUEARYKAI0WIQQlpruI3Zt2TGtVQcJzhAn1IN+RkAUCZCcnPF8UgAAAAAAuAChp c3N1ZXItZnByQG5vdGF0aW9ucy5vcGVucGdwLmZpZnRoaG9yc2VtYW4ubmV0MjVB NkJCODhERDlCNzY0QzZCNTU0MUMyNzM4NDA5RjUyMERGOTE5MA8cc2FtQGdlbnRv by5vcmcACgkQc4QJ9SDfkZDAEwD9GY1uDH31orPzVFT0Co03ERjIX1Uqa0Z+Uxqk 5tGntjYA/RfTXrgjb6fwKJqehmuMr4iiPVFfz+eJlTlDt52TaHwC =DQWT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#62572: cp --no-clobber behavior has changed Resent-From: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-coreutils@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2023 20:02:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.62572.B62572.168029287526772 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 62572 X-GNU-PR-Package: coreutils X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Alberto Salvia Novella <es20490446e@HIDDEN> Cc: 62572 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 62572-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B62572.168029287526772 (code B ref 62572); Fri, 31 Mar 2023 20:02:01 +0000 Received: (at 62572) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Mar 2023 20:01:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34607 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1piKvz-0006xj-F4 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 31 Mar 2023 16:01:15 -0400 Received: from mail.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.66]:58904) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eggert@HIDDEN>) id 1piKvx-0006xU-EM for 62572 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 31 Mar 2023 16:01:13 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03C9B3C097AFA; Fri, 31 Mar 2023 13:01:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id AAm_YO3VN_rt; Fri, 31 Mar 2023 13:01:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id B02733C097AFB; Fri, 31 Mar 2023 13:01:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 mail.cs.ucla.edu B02733C097AFB DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cs.ucla.edu; s=9D0B346E-2AEB-11ED-9476-E14B719DCE6C; t=1680292867; bh=Rjg2SJrOPzCiSNVutlQbd/bagBN8B/nWC2HaXqhiJr4=; h=Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:To:From; b=owcv2f3n4GmZzQ96JIoAPe08ywrScegninTwP+s4EpAqr1dJclyE1FnhK1xeYYW6U QT/WKyXgfosH7zoG6UQNVREefxCtFzqac8xpb+brWVRUK3hRuad5SQMxRh/ADpwoOq jk0KiUV6bH8vVqTpOoBfUSnCrS8Nz3KHrk4iq5z88+uOJ+QZBz/wdAhPzMZVB5h/Pn NRSqw3PzTyb9c8/PqhvwBBymT4aU3lQL3YelUMv11k4FSlVHktKVEYzOwxuvgVPvvp RGEzFfHSjK+sPF5ZeHsOOsgFa5ioMfBlSdmChR9Lc4vOfqXHxVZPmu/dLEPnDewC1h IN72A4ITF4MfQ== X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mail.cs.ucla.edu Received: from mail.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id dlI5t480JsjS; Fri, 31 Mar 2023 13:01:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.9] (cpe-172-91-119-151.socal.res.rr.com [172.91.119.151]) by mail.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 895BE3C097AFA; Fri, 31 Mar 2023 13:01:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <0cab4887-df33-0404-9a1b-9a84c87b7087@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2023 13:01:07 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.9.0 Content-Language: en-US References: <CAHJvkbsWyJJnN3fi4tmdQa5CxOXg7O+BqZizzDLei1uNpy=bzw@HIDDEN> From: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department In-Reply-To: <CAHJvkbsWyJJnN3fi4tmdQa5CxOXg7O+BqZizzDLei1uNpy=bzw@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -1.1 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) On 2023-03-31 10:01, Alberto Salvia Novella wrote: > Is this on purpose? Yes, part of the idea was to let shell programmers easily test whether cp successfully copied the data. Having cp -i conform to POSIX was a lesser consideration, though it's a bit nicer if -n and -i are somewhat consistent. For what it's worth, the old behavior wasn't documented and the new behavior is.
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#62572: cp --no-clobber behavior has changed Resent-From: Sven Joachim <svenjoac@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-coreutils@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2023 20:39:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.62572.B62572.168029509930754 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 62572 X-GNU-PR-Package: coreutils X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> Cc: Alberto Salvia Novella <es20490446e@HIDDEN>, 62572 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 62572-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B62572.168029509930754 (code B ref 62572); Fri, 31 Mar 2023 20:39:02 +0000 Received: (at 62572) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Mar 2023 20:38:19 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34642 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1piLVq-0007zv-Jt for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 31 Mar 2023 16:38:18 -0400 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.15]:53965) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <svenjoac@HIDDEN>) id 1piLVo-0007zc-QK for 62572 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 31 Mar 2023 16:38:17 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.de; s=s31663417; t=1680295080; i=svenjoac@HIDDEN; bh=PQHTFIVuvC4cynSDPdofxBTPpLG4bLL9x3NKl95l7n4=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date; b=N0oAuFNgDMHZbxN90+MtGLYJGR5RcjmxwLNIOOEgeEzaEO4VVb73zr/iKfPQb6oDc sDIcRyMEbBwRJj5dTJ8/Ii8E6HvySSU0/Yk5QDnuWablZm1bYSkqhpv/zEOnwGuBWp bAqOsyrlQDf6IabU6KXMQK+IBcOZusnyAcJ8hs44ofLXJCK98I3/RYLmyrCzunNnLT lmgzl5Ko9I25ufWP4MLNA6jyx6QG5VKePM5DhT+kDaQepI0JHlNgcDwsqj1q6Nd2MW C+jUvcXLnVe3XU6FWr8XNhheyGBYGBpSs8k8AFpHt5Mew9JybAbc5FYggkoNK7XoHl SRfqWSLqLP4IQ== X-UI-Sender-Class: 724b4f7f-cbec-4199-ad4e-598c01a50d3a Received: from localhost.localdomain ([79.223.56.94]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx005 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MV67o-1ppSWc1APu-00S86s; Fri, 31 Mar 2023 22:38:00 +0200 Received: by localhost.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 1000) id F20068008F; Fri, 31 Mar 2023 22:37:58 +0200 (CEST) From: Sven Joachim <svenjoac@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <0cab4887-df33-0404-9a1b-9a84c87b7087@HIDDEN> (Paul Eggert's message of "Fri, 31 Mar 2023 13:01:07 -0700") References: <CAHJvkbsWyJJnN3fi4tmdQa5CxOXg7O+BqZizzDLei1uNpy=bzw@HIDDEN> <0cab4887-df33-0404-9a1b-9a84c87b7087@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2023 22:37:58 +0200 Message-ID: <87jzyw3bdl.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:IPcBZ/7HCu7Wdlj7IyHgmKRD+bla+Gcx5qPHsq48j4vKNSa3laV 2cdxzxLMURA3bA4Or+PUz2X9IeyO1ikPDK0hFQjU7bqWQxYoNaG9O/iZmlK4rhR6+zqNKM5 r1NSehCRB1Vm5v7yzXzvLe611aOG2Dl1lHU3Ic7R/hH8BjcfIlE3x6Z0LgMz+NAPfYBLIf2 oLCnMzNE25jJ7aRfe85Fw== X-Spam-Flag: NO UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:+eoMK6eEgIs=;GsW5ZjXOwja1qt5ud50CcO9LUs0 e42GjySc4vNjt04uQMg39G5ZfwCeJD8PWPi1dNILawct87tMpmQ7kGI1ptFHuPUa9WWERphFq 7ag0qfXJ/OSMB+frybnqWI1m4DuPFeHj5PfDqtv86Xpqj00pdb9lblCysiVInm9Ew1hO28LBu eD1quw1/usRiH6ftJIOVsbLCkiUv6p7X7jNkVCJQMiMYHZZCUtAj6DltrGZrwV3+WzbTGd322 jHdxqrG9eLNPhv5fu/lXp/KUPcDBRnZ8T4sBlXGCnz3ouMtDQDU21JemDt+dr5T5PBSoP4Ryr AzDfLEoFm7tQkuKTxvmURDKyxuJ4epK2VkKX9zOqqksiyY4hYzJRt+hynbeY8h/1cRb0SHfnq ti4BwHNw6/XdGsM80yZPb8jeD9w2q1Ms/TLPHmuHs6cJ5WGCGznfBWwDDwF+xfJRDlkbps79u 4Sj9q4WUtkYjlhAO7ZcxjvX2c5ABFy+aijjCZfe4o+15oLwROjgpb1Ydk5w5eZd87N3EiuUqC 25e4JzpIWkscxlKzGBztg2RzhrR3IWqn8w1GsmXxmbBICVZ2k+cuD1cLlR1q99WvN1zKjLvJk NPpaGBl1d+L8x3n4ADiivkZbzXAPw005/Ns3j1EwZyK2mzLphmT1IkgDtmkBT2Yzg82nBqAVh MPuHgJ+CVmYGFTg+cR6dy1Fxo6WPBpo7Bm1Y1wIf+oA0MTpzB1jjz/7+WtMAbqMEH01yRiZSo QY/45Qc85iRm4dEGoWk7mGVB8a2H+hmvZIfwVu9WpfwVKiVsJH85kN2sEBea+k1XZ9Pztn4ky whxuzXMY3yb7WUMDDiI8ZH2s8zrKgwCHfavLvdWy1PhKM1i1dZBc08fGdAeMgMJZL8Ul8F7o5 88R7MhFvdV1Q2YnZlGk7xMlfK/Crbli2ggKC7yK2miV5ia5zzTlvBaOiF+Z/J6kPsNJzPaPj+ 37CbNA== X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On 2023-03-31 13:01 -0700, Paul Eggert wrote: > On 2023-03-31 10:01, Alberto Salvia Novella wrote: >> Is this on purpose? > > Yes, part of the idea was to let shell programmers easily test whether > cp successfully copied the data. By making them stop using the '-n' option, since they cannot rely on the exit code anyway? > Having cp -i conform to POSIX was a > lesser consideration, though it's a bit nicer if -n and -i are > somewhat consistent. It is not so nice that this is probably going to break several dozen packages in Debian alone. :-( Cheers, Sven
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#62572: cp --no-clobber behavior has changed Resent-From: Alberto Salvia Novella <es20490446e@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-coreutils@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2023 20:54:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.62572.B62572.1680296031734 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 62572 X-GNU-PR-Package: coreutils X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> Cc: 62572 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 62572-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B62572.1680296031734 (code B ref 62572); Fri, 31 Mar 2023 20:54:02 +0000 Received: (at 62572) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Mar 2023 20:53:51 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34674 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1piLkt-0000Bm-7L for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 31 Mar 2023 16:53:51 -0400 Received: from mail-yw1-f172.google.com ([209.85.128.172]:35660) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <es20490446e@HIDDEN>) id 1piLkr-0000BK-6M for 62572 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 31 Mar 2023 16:53:49 -0400 Received: by mail-yw1-f172.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-5416698e889so438244227b3.2 for <62572 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 31 Mar 2023 13:53:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; t=1680296023; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=f7s/6HDNNYW2kX/B9BZ7ZOMn+lMgdJyO21dRi4bFE1I=; b=DQPTEOSWa1wFroP/7Mbd2wACyJnGwafcOvJ2P7vIDLy98UqeySYu8k9+jlW6q/5plg ozI4twi7tZbNjIBU/yIACvIyv1pX+s4DwFV3fwJ7xxfGbV4adxL1+c9v28Vx0uSMYA/L M0YxyfSu3RF4I3cWPtwH6D5/u/MFFN+5c+AXS4gJCoV5VQ56SuoIla5WBcteAZ0jTWNO cNYPOPy01v04tY+0hFwWwgvefGjITKmZctxyTU4RZZqwp35tWZpl613pqR4v0xA17nZM xUo8zRopVuufc1UkP5AHTZVttCHyfYTyeBxl2oRPFRbFDuDP8D+8M5/D63Ts8JVjKTto IeRA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; t=1680296023; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=f7s/6HDNNYW2kX/B9BZ7ZOMn+lMgdJyO21dRi4bFE1I=; b=XnSHtF3XLcPHA+gl79Wu8vtQTqcHmhl6Yh96ilP3ndGn4iMcwEEQH88WTdPjFk2EOa /TRXvaL8fANQcM6Yffpo2e0ghBtZ/1hID2JAyVJYb8t7XoJ3sYU0JCJExhLe0CW3hBox oqOGye1IXFFHcIqx/L7C4NBgSPXcs0h5YOj2Kz8lNt3ljOfGuX6RqzKfnH+ZoutTqC4p T98QS61D2MrFmz9VTI40JUutpBFXAZZI1OpfTH1/JF+e2pkMIb4AUA+f49fecx9gQT7o zmIjZCEHnRKd+nTRtrrq0kgUs+//FbnruMhlEgIUI67UxT+0OQvRi1CbgMwJrPs7VbvH 9ddA== X-Gm-Message-State: AAQBX9eEe988dM6hxzXUR5wAGjFWoEQGNCWVOAmwHEali0aCluNIkXl+ alhEuIO9Rmal+y76b04RC9XxKn11wUN4o6cJKQg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AKy350bedWvR3PC1y03sYiP4fW4knQ/ZjcYXqRTDoxMalcidHraJiA3yC2FcZw7aEiCuBJbzVILYlw1L5wyuD2W5/uQ= X-Received: by 2002:a81:4b89:0:b0:545:632d:e78b with SMTP id y131-20020a814b89000000b00545632de78bmr6285091ywa.0.1680296023397; Fri, 31 Mar 2023 13:53:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <CAHJvkbsWyJJnN3fi4tmdQa5CxOXg7O+BqZizzDLei1uNpy=bzw@HIDDEN> <0cab4887-df33-0404-9a1b-9a84c87b7087@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <0cab4887-df33-0404-9a1b-9a84c87b7087@HIDDEN> From: Alberto Salvia Novella <es20490446e@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2023 22:53:31 +0200 Message-ID: <CAHJvkbvuw6xK_U5UuJvGcoF6bWqa8bE+-9z922csjOCta_hTgQ@HIDDEN> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000979ab405f83867b0" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --000000000000979ab405f83867b0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" https://youtu.be/o_kh1_gOkwk On Fri, 31 Mar 2023 at 22:01, Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> wrote: > On 2023-03-31 10:01, Alberto Salvia Novella wrote: > > Is this on purpose? > > Yes, part of the idea was to let shell programmers easily test whether > cp successfully copied the data. Having cp -i conform to POSIX was a > lesser consideration, though it's a bit nicer if -n and -i are somewhat > consistent. > > For what it's worth, the old behavior wasn't documented and the new > behavior is. > --000000000000979ab405f83867b0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><a href=3D"https://youtu.be/o_kh1_gOkwk">https://youtu.be/= o_kh1_gOkwk</a></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class= =3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, 31 Mar 2023 at 22:01, Paul Eggert <<a href=3D"ma= ilto:eggert@HIDDEN">eggert@HIDDEN</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockq= uote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1p= x solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">On 2023-03-31 10:01, Alberto Sal= via Novella wrote:<br> > Is this on purpose?<br> <br> Yes, part of the idea was to let shell programmers easily test whether <br> cp successfully copied the data. Having cp -i conform to POSIX was a <br> lesser consideration, though it's a bit nicer if -n and -i are somewhat= <br> consistent.<br> <br> For what it's worth, the old behavior wasn't documented and the new= <br> behavior is.<br> </blockquote></div> --000000000000979ab405f83867b0--
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#62572: cp --no-clobber behavior has changed Resent-From: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-coreutils@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2023 21:16:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.62572.B62572.16802973583490 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 62572 X-GNU-PR-Package: coreutils X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Sven Joachim <svenjoac@HIDDEN> Cc: Alberto Salvia Novella <es20490446e@HIDDEN>, 62572 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 62572-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B62572.16802973583490 (code B ref 62572); Fri, 31 Mar 2023 21:16:02 +0000 Received: (at 62572) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Mar 2023 21:15:58 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34700 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1piM6H-0000uE-So for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 31 Mar 2023 17:15:58 -0400 Received: from mail.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.66]:51046) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eggert@HIDDEN>) id 1piM6F-0000ty-QC for 62572 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 31 Mar 2023 17:15:56 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 853783C097AFA; Fri, 31 Mar 2023 14:15:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id W_uIDjaef7Yt; Fri, 31 Mar 2023 14:15:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77B743C097AFB; Fri, 31 Mar 2023 14:15:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 mail.cs.ucla.edu 77B743C097AFB DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cs.ucla.edu; s=9D0B346E-2AEB-11ED-9476-E14B719DCE6C; t=1680297347; bh=w3R9uwkCy0rFvFJNUkoVop+EcHPRiwkeaQ1g32NuPcY=; h=Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:To:From; b=FHPSknz+syo0RBLHv4ummSvJjdqD9ZplPc0UFkqJ+YLARQp0pG6w+n6N0YOAAokzl rnEj+Y3OPPv+7UO3ezuVMuctHvxVc+1lmskS0pCPRBNaumODjiM5KR9UZsGHGUtnky sTQpi4OqDYcdt2Qit4Hx9aXWau47hXhN5rDPidqd4/M/bdfLuvinSfZ64xspca7GGe uDRfa0meiWN1DSC6t0SOT2SLnj/Qdb3ZuLvpcwlIwRzXph2tz/RhtDCm1J4tizeVqt twcZgDADmIfGBdMmpDalB5cDzd3Koqs7ThENCDienlgjijKY5rQIojc+G/1cJU5qXI s9NZTVyVkliYA== X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mail.cs.ucla.edu Received: from mail.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id BsslVSn6-znW; Fri, 31 Mar 2023 14:15:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.9] (cpe-172-91-119-151.socal.res.rr.com [172.91.119.151]) by mail.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4DACD3C097AFA; Fri, 31 Mar 2023 14:15:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <be44d664-2fe6-e46f-db3c-b3f457ce3e05@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2023 14:15:47 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.9.0 Content-Language: en-US References: <CAHJvkbsWyJJnN3fi4tmdQa5CxOXg7O+BqZizzDLei1uNpy=bzw@HIDDEN> <0cab4887-df33-0404-9a1b-9a84c87b7087@HIDDEN> <87jzyw3bdl.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department In-Reply-To: <87jzyw3bdl.fsf@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -1.1 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) On 2023-03-31 13:37, Sven Joachim wrote: > On 2023-03-31 13:01 -0700, Paul Eggert wrote: > >> part of the idea was to let shell programmers easily test whether >> cp successfully copied the data. > > By making them stop using the '-n' option, since they cannot rely on the > exit code anyway? Portable code could not rely on the exit status anyway, as FreeBSD cp agrees with the new GNU behavior, not the old. See: https://bugs.gnu.org/61105 It was a messy situation where there was no perfect solution. That being said, there is an advantage of consistency with FreeBSD, and the new GNU behavior does avoid the race mentioned in Bug#61105.
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[95.44.90.175]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id s7-20020a05600c45c700b003ee2a0d49dbsm11049204wmo.25.2023.03.31.14.32.13 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 31 Mar 2023 14:32:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <a0606475-50a0-a074-667f-52775961c7b6@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2023 22:32:12 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:109.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/109.0 Content-Language: en-US References: <CAHJvkbsWyJJnN3fi4tmdQa5CxOXg7O+BqZizzDLei1uNpy=bzw@HIDDEN> <0cab4887-df33-0404-9a1b-9a84c87b7087@HIDDEN> <87jzyw3bdl.fsf@HIDDEN> <be44d664-2fe6-e46f-db3c-b3f457ce3e05@HIDDEN> From: =?UTF-8?Q?P=C3=A1draig?= Brady <P@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <be44d664-2fe6-e46f-db3c-b3f457ce3e05@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.9 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) On 31/03/2023 22:15, Paul Eggert wrote: > On 2023-03-31 13:37, Sven Joachim wrote: >> On 2023-03-31 13:01 -0700, Paul Eggert wrote: >> >>> part of the idea was to let shell programmers easily test whether >>> cp successfully copied the data. >> >> By making them stop using the '-n' option, since they cannot rely on the >> exit code anyway? > > Portable code could not rely on the exit status anyway, as FreeBSD cp > agrees with the new GNU behavior, not the old. See: > > https://bugs.gnu.org/61105 > > It was a messy situation where there was no perfect solution. That being > said, there is an advantage of consistency with FreeBSD, and the new GNU > behavior does avoid the race mentioned in Bug#61105. Perhaps we should support: --no-clobber[={skip, fail (default)}] so then users can at least easily change -n to --no-clobber=skip to get the old behavior? An alternative would be to augment the --update option to support: --update[={none, older (default)}] where --update=none would be the equivalent of the old -n behavior. Perhaps we should also diagnose files skipped in the -n fail case, to make it easier for users to see what the issue is. cheers, Pádraig
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#62572: cp --no-clobber behavior has changed Resent-From: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-coreutils@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2023 23:30:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.62572.B62572.168030535218087 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 62572 X-GNU-PR-Package: coreutils X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: =?UTF-8?Q?P=C3=A1draig?= Brady <P@HIDDEN>, Sven Joachim <svenjoac@HIDDEN> Cc: Alberto Salvia Novella <es20490446e@HIDDEN>, 62572 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 62572-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B62572.168030535218087 (code B ref 62572); Fri, 31 Mar 2023 23:30:01 +0000 Received: (at 62572) by debbugs.gnu.org; 31 Mar 2023 23:29:12 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34837 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1piOBE-0004hc-23 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 31 Mar 2023 19:29:12 -0400 Received: from mail.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.66]:60536) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eggert@HIDDEN>) id 1piOBC-0004hN-T4 for 62572 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 31 Mar 2023 19:29:11 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94F623C097AFA; Fri, 31 Mar 2023 16:29:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id PI2B8nSx3pVI; Fri, 31 Mar 2023 16:29:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AEAF3C097AFE; Fri, 31 Mar 2023 16:29:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 mail.cs.ucla.edu 0AEAF3C097AFE DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cs.ucla.edu; s=9D0B346E-2AEB-11ED-9476-E14B719DCE6C; t=1680305344; bh=DW2jG9Hirl0xqCx0UXAYyNZsYqW6at2nOHr71hkfM9M=; h=Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:To:From; b=KsKQSOL8VwcH2boDEW26NDpLYBaHC4gm2AX4z0ebQUFvZf8P4r8mK/uLyBiwj46sq 6+s1ScteyPH32Wbo56F+dG+CJPLOaEJYGmpvR6GYcvF4c3rL526t5DK+lDm/fexqzN WUjUDfs2ffFNrJxe5INTJnIu1TzhTq3dZyUgZUrIETJk9hLNgMxZ4/soHk+vPAA1+k 79P84QtOMTcjdxuA1bZxA14PozAFKSTZFzDmNldVXuR+DEkuXzPb0CW6Qmew3JQnA3 s6Xv7NNUaDn8A5L0VvdTM/FUtwQOFy/EiLd2t4ZdFxZiNa887MWNjv3L20ZAqYfruf oCH7kpgjCeePA== X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mail.cs.ucla.edu Received: from mail.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id dXxqsdUSNxmp; Fri, 31 Mar 2023 16:29:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.9] (cpe-172-91-119-151.socal.res.rr.com [172.91.119.151]) by mail.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CBD773C097AFA; Fri, 31 Mar 2023 16:29:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <c550aba1-e842-0185-3545-736d2d7a0f8f@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2023 16:29:03 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.9.0 Content-Language: en-US References: <CAHJvkbsWyJJnN3fi4tmdQa5CxOXg7O+BqZizzDLei1uNpy=bzw@HIDDEN> <0cab4887-df33-0404-9a1b-9a84c87b7087@HIDDEN> <87jzyw3bdl.fsf@HIDDEN> <be44d664-2fe6-e46f-db3c-b3f457ce3e05@HIDDEN> <a0606475-50a0-a074-667f-52775961c7b6@HIDDEN> From: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department In-Reply-To: <a0606475-50a0-a074-667f-52775961c7b6@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -1.1 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) On 2023-03-31 14:32, P=C3=A1draig Brady wrote: > Perhaps we should support: > =C2=A0 --no-clobber[=3D{skip, fail (default)}] >=20 > so then users can at least easily change -n to --no-clobber=3Dskip > to get the old behavior? >=20 > An alternative would be to augment the --update option to support: > =C2=A0 --update[=3D{none, older (default)}] > where --update=3Dnone would be the equivalent of the old -n behavior. The latter sounds a bit better but I suppose either would work. We could=20 generalize it a bit further, e.g.: --skip-diagnose[=3D{yes,no}] Whether to diagnose a copying action being skipped. --skip-fail[=3D{yes,no}] Whether exit status should be 1 when skipping a copying action. Presumably similar options would apply to ln and mv. All these extra options might be overkill, though. > Perhaps we should also diagnose files skipped in the -n fail case, > to make it easier for users to see what the issue is. FreeBSD cp -n doesn't diagnose, and GNU cp -n has never diagnosed, so=20 it's probably better to leave sleeping dogs lie.
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#62572: cp --no-clobber behavior has changed References: <CAHJvkbsWyJJnN3fi4tmdQa5CxOXg7O+BqZizzDLei1uNpy=bzw@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <CAHJvkbsWyJJnN3fi4tmdQa5CxOXg7O+BqZizzDLei1uNpy=bzw@HIDDEN> Resent-From: Christoph Anton Mitterer <calestyo@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-coreutils@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2023 00:06:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.62572.B62572.168030752622285 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 62572 X-GNU-PR-Package: coreutils X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 62572 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 62572-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B62572.168030752622285 (code B ref 62572); Sat, 01 Apr 2023 00:06:01 +0000 Received: (at 62572) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Apr 2023 00:05:26 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34843 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1piOkI-0005nM-AK for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; 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Sat, 01 Apr 2023 00:05:22 +0000 Received: from p5b071320.dip0.t-ipconnect.de ([91.7.19.32]:45268 helo=heisenberg.fritz.box) by cpanel-007-fra.hostingww.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.96) (envelope-from <calestyo@HIDDEN>) id 1piOkC-0003Rx-3A for 62572 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 Apr 2023 00:05:20 +0000 Message-ID: <88b8a3bcc5312f0703f0ef29590b369c86a72ff9.camel@HIDDEN> From: Christoph Anton Mitterer <calestyo@HIDDEN> Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2023 02:05:15 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable User-Agent: Evolution 3.46.4-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 X-AuthUser: calestyo@HIDDEN X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) In principle I have no strong opinion on what the behaviour should be. But if one strictly follows the POSIX wording: > The following exit values shall be returned: > 0 > All input files were [copied/moved] successfully. > >0 > An error occurred. The change seems to make sense, as one could argue that the above ain't the case with -n if the destination already exists. It's however open to debate whether --no-clobber - were it in POSIX - would have fallen into that spirit. But at least as of corutils 9.1 's cp info page it was documented as: >An exit status of zero indicates success, and a nonzero value >indicates failure. together with: > =E2=80=98-n=E2=80=99 > =E2=80=98--no-clobber=E2=80=99 > Do not overwrite an existing file; silently do nothing instead. > This option overrides a previous =E2=80=98-i=E2=80=99 option. This o= ption is > mutually exclusive with =E2=80=98-b=E2=80=99 or =E2=80=98--backup=E2= =80=99 option. that doesn't seem like failure to me. So it kinda breaks the "promise" made by the documentation. I like P=C3=A1draig's idea in message #26... but no idea whether it should be more POSIX like (thus non-zero when nothing was copied) or more backwards compatible. Cheers, Chris.
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#62572: cp --no-clobber behavior has changed Resent-From: Alberto Salvia Novella <es20490446e@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-coreutils@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2023 01:38:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.62572.B62572.168031302732018 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 62572 X-GNU-PR-Package: coreutils X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?P=C3=A1draig?= Brady <P@HIDDEN>, Sven Joachim <svenjoac@HIDDEN>, 62572 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 62572-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B62572.168031302732018 (code B ref 62572); Sat, 01 Apr 2023 01:38:01 +0000 Received: (at 62572) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Apr 2023 01:37:07 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34915 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1piQB1-0008KL-7A for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 31 Mar 2023 21:37:07 -0400 Received: from mail-yb1-f181.google.com ([209.85.219.181]:37530) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <es20490446e@HIDDEN>) id 1piQAz-0008Jn-LC for 62572 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 31 Mar 2023 21:37:06 -0400 Received: by mail-yb1-f181.google.com with SMTP id j7so29380321ybg.4 for <62572 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 31 Mar 2023 18:37:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; t=1680313020; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=qn8R8H+gE6PyeaavPRwcAnyEru0rw9SnhXFeN8f8uoU=; b=WyV0c4sX0oEm/7rYZVCxHiQwha9vCHA7jbEg/Qdhlip+Zh+5qSGfmmucVmzxP4BzCY YtAXyLyIyHMXUBfuwtR8C2MvAbDWqREJ6e34axM6fMHOkVYnMsiY+NrvlU7hqIEujyVe 9TOX0ieyzB2jQi1vUYCeUYDVaT0kQ5wm0SzMtoGdiAGQnzjuERFZnwpIKznQAn/QMSj5 3W5TBd/+/2iWneDdvWZcTTBWJEJs8xlVmR3mqgjcg2exg7ajTBXUDqnA3/loAlqJJTE2 stu/ahFt045iR1RWwKs2dUkifHkW0pq/YNRLvFvvJOFT8GPqjjy94JeszuHkjJBheooy kchw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; t=1680313020; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=qn8R8H+gE6PyeaavPRwcAnyEru0rw9SnhXFeN8f8uoU=; b=hQzn06x+jwJzfABu3RkrHqswDgZimcjnjlbvkWVwjTVD+QuOkDiCS5PVzoQ1nLLsI/ 7MJa/8hEj3NFTdZQKGAG+JobCj0gCAFtUr7BFjv1raJfppWzbz3sgl1UNz1IDhBgOS5m agFcWQ3bA7f0XfAmtVhDzn+MMimr0mzpEKcIWKAR7M+riGsF/fPyoI+4DZEg1tYmajGL Q6Y3xX48x+zoe563w1pXnIqG4J5Qqyn4mW+NpNdTk5PuuNDSOGKOrPHcmPec4w3agFaI vXhiMtv6YXmTodcomwrN6M8+3IflLQTZLgsf6OkKL8Y+5AD7yKMR7HoxEfs3lpSu8Ipn 2fLw== X-Gm-Message-State: AAQBX9frbhEG0UkqAQ2BaaZX5ys+Cr5Wgo5P+DIXRNiIQPeTUibwYdBw bnsxU4StUDc7xqfsR6eNtkaALtg/gQ/oi4Tx6gA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AKy350bki6y6yBkJyTspt7T3xjvfcmExOCJyrkAKeOBqTQfcUIEh2a9u+7prp8zL16Aw+nGVMDO2XKLyJ5WkbWi97ls= X-Received: by 2002:a25:8712:0:b0:b6a:2590:6c7f with SMTP id a18-20020a258712000000b00b6a25906c7fmr14962400ybl.2.1680313019922; Fri, 31 Mar 2023 18:36:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <CAHJvkbsWyJJnN3fi4tmdQa5CxOXg7O+BqZizzDLei1uNpy=bzw@HIDDEN> <0cab4887-df33-0404-9a1b-9a84c87b7087@HIDDEN> <87jzyw3bdl.fsf@HIDDEN> <be44d664-2fe6-e46f-db3c-b3f457ce3e05@HIDDEN> <a0606475-50a0-a074-667f-52775961c7b6@HIDDEN> <c550aba1-e842-0185-3545-736d2d7a0f8f@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <c550aba1-e842-0185-3545-736d2d7a0f8f@HIDDEN> From: Alberto Salvia Novella <es20490446e@HIDDEN> Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2023 03:36:48 +0200 Message-ID: <CAHJvkbtKq9HxruHHAxjxHVjnehYBSLHRNErEH8ZcEDVFRVE0bw@HIDDEN> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a9fe5305f83c5cfb" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --000000000000a9fe5305f83c5cfb Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I get the impression that right now --no-clover is optimized for the less common scenarios, while making it less useful for the common ones. Also --update isn't a substitute of --no-clover. As --no-clover is for copying when the file is missing, not when it isn't updated. For example imagine that I have a config template, and a script copies the template only if it is missing using --no-clover. If I did the same with --update it could happen the following: the package that provides the template updates, then --update will override the config even if it exists, just because the source file is now newer. No good. So right now the only option that I have is to avoid both --no-clover and --update all together, and to test for the file existence separately. So totally useless. On Sat, 1 Apr 2023 at 01:29, Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> wrote: > On 2023-03-31 14:32, P=C3=A1draig Brady wrote: > > > Perhaps we should support: > > --no-clobber[=3D{skip, fail (default)}] > > > > so then users can at least easily change -n to --no-clobber=3Dskip > > to get the old behavior? > > > > An alternative would be to augment the --update option to support: > > --update[=3D{none, older (default)}] > > where --update=3Dnone would be the equivalent of the old -n behavior. > > The latter sounds a bit better but I suppose either would work. We could > generalize it a bit further, e.g.: > > --skip-diagnose[=3D{yes,no}] > Whether to diagnose a copying action being skipped. > --skip-fail[=3D{yes,no}] > Whether exit status should be 1 when skipping a copying action. > > Presumably similar options would apply to ln and mv. > > All these extra options might be overkill, though. > > > > Perhaps we should also diagnose files skipped in the -n fail case, > > to make it easier for users to see what the issue is. > > FreeBSD cp -n doesn't diagnose, and GNU cp -n has never diagnosed, so > it's probably better to leave sleeping dogs lie. > --000000000000a9fe5305f83c5cfb Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div>I get the impression that right now --no-clover is op= timized for the less common scenarios, while making it less useful for the = common ones.</div><div><br></div><div>Also --update isn't a substitute = of --no-clover. As --no-clover is for copying when the file is missing, not= when it isn't updated.</div><div><br></div><div>For example imagine th= at I have a config template, and a script copies the template only if it is= missing using --no-clover.</div><div><br></div><div>If I did the same with= --update it could happen the following: the package that provides the temp= late updates, then --update will override the config even if it exists, jus= t because the source file is now newer. No good.</div><div><br></div><div>S= o right now the only option that I have is to avoid both --no-clover and --= update all together, and to test for the file existence separately. So tota= lly useless.<br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr"= class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, 1 Apr 2023 at 01:29, Paul Eggert <<a href= =3D"mailto:eggert@HIDDEN">eggert@HIDDEN</a>> wrote:<br></div><= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l= eft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">On 2023-03-31 14:32, P=C3= =A1draig Brady wrote:<br> <br> > Perhaps we should support:<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 --no-clobber[=3D{skip, fail (default)}]<br> > <br> > so then users can at least easily change -n to --no-clobber=3Dskip<br> > to get the old behavior?<br> > <br> > An alternative would be to augment the --update option to support:<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 --update[=3D{none, older (default)}]<br> > where --update=3Dnone would be the equivalent of the old -n behavior.<= br> <br> The latter sounds a bit better but I suppose either would work. We could <b= r> generalize it a bit further, e.g.:<br> <br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0--skip-diagnose[=3D{yes,no}]<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Whether to diagnose a copying action being skipped.<br= > =C2=A0 =C2=A0--skip-fail[=3D{yes,no}]<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Whether exit status should be 1 when skipping a copyin= g action.<br> <br> Presumably similar options would apply to ln and mv.<br> <br> All these extra options might be overkill, though.<br> <br> <br> > Perhaps we should also diagnose files skipped in the -n fail case,<br> > to make it easier for users to see what the issue is.<br> <br> FreeBSD cp -n doesn't diagnose, and GNU cp -n has never diagnosed, so <= br> it's probably better to leave sleeping dogs lie.<br> </blockquote></div> --000000000000a9fe5305f83c5cfb--
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#62572: cp --no-clobber behavior has changed Resent-From: Alberto Salvia Novella <es20490446e@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-coreutils@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2023 01:42:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.62572.B62572.168031329032423 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 62572 X-GNU-PR-Package: coreutils X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?P=C3=A1draig?= Brady <P@HIDDEN>, Sven Joachim <svenjoac@HIDDEN>, 62572 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 62572-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B62572.168031329032423 (code B ref 62572); Sat, 01 Apr 2023 01:42:02 +0000 Received: (at 62572) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Apr 2023 01:41:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34920 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1piQFG-0008Qs-2a for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 31 Mar 2023 21:41:30 -0400 Received: from mail-yw1-f174.google.com ([209.85.128.174]:34815) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <es20490446e@HIDDEN>) id 1piQFD-0008Qf-OQ for 62572 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 31 Mar 2023 21:41:28 -0400 Received: by mail-yw1-f174.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-5463fa0c2bfso117277947b3.1 for <62572 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 31 Mar 2023 18:41:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; t=1680313282; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=zhLpvQ7zPyygghQVTaX0PjMzwNuO8RviyBjMWcmsAAI=; b=HS642IkofiyeDXgMqXSsacvamT/iDM/RpfcCRvFhFGJkpxeBTNVxNk8FqG3g3jOpF3 inIIfw783CbG+MJw73nLkZ47jageg6kYNppoQihMeB0jw0zNpRhBccH6nNZR5pvk4TGd sazCYjyioz6pyq3pbsQWt/r2lmSTOvdOYYXeQuc+zlc0gitBkM/D3P1fM/kX/Ugk6Aw4 wAsv4nb1I1Oi/KDY4U0QiPBNRe08yQUCWfW8iI0W93giEXmzSjTqdQzx8pSnDhAXlTaQ gThSXjrj5TXXhMrtNMrcWcCTtFAO/mlkf9E2UmsmRHh/0hX1gXYu9g/5/R4knTLOFNR1 DE9g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; t=1680313282; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=zhLpvQ7zPyygghQVTaX0PjMzwNuO8RviyBjMWcmsAAI=; b=i0aqJC6jJ8QdVr7Io8C6cpipfzRvwMGmpnqL5hNRFlwVu3dmHO3A7P5wayI2J4IfLF v8tj+jvVyIJgNc5BYufhBXz64EDXgK0qkGRnfqA9ZHJqvtjDIHD7Umvo1YhEslaWxVu4 vjL4R1Ds/xZwcRG2sGmNqik9YZMDCkr8KiRANXlNOgs0D39xS9/S+ykKgrW8pnPn1yjd MjyssLUsIk1fnWaDuIUD35wzR9uelNJGlcXIkWdnEGl9RveURj043hqDQx14WXBJRpP4 RO97kZYRMs3KXsA0Sz2KEDDJw9AsSv3154bnrOwq54lqESiwgIovWnWKSQoBY/7+2PvO AcSQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AAQBX9eMmWdNcOs/PGXbkGE6aZbWOrdRYV2nijwSpbr/1YC1ipICGnZ8 FbO4Os+tsEF5f5ZjeT4kKCNR9IJaW7t1RHI8jgk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AKy350YPbGJDoLpGHb6eBh4fT7B4b1zFW50pP9KHKtUsHV7AP7nv/554Z1v05Ej8Mg16gT5JPmwWpeVZiHqpTXx4M2Q= X-Received: by 2002:a81:4426:0:b0:53d:2772:65d with SMTP id r38-20020a814426000000b0053d2772065dmr14642252ywa.9.1680313282146; Fri, 31 Mar 2023 18:41:22 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <CAHJvkbsWyJJnN3fi4tmdQa5CxOXg7O+BqZizzDLei1uNpy=bzw@HIDDEN> <0cab4887-df33-0404-9a1b-9a84c87b7087@HIDDEN> <87jzyw3bdl.fsf@HIDDEN> <be44d664-2fe6-e46f-db3c-b3f457ce3e05@HIDDEN> <a0606475-50a0-a074-667f-52775961c7b6@HIDDEN> <c550aba1-e842-0185-3545-736d2d7a0f8f@HIDDEN> <CAHJvkbtKq9HxruHHAxjxHVjnehYBSLHRNErEH8ZcEDVFRVE0bw@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <CAHJvkbtKq9HxruHHAxjxHVjnehYBSLHRNErEH8ZcEDVFRVE0bw@HIDDEN> From: Alberto Salvia Novella <es20490446e@HIDDEN> Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2023 03:41:10 +0200 Message-ID: <CAHJvkbsWJdax7Xk1Fu-N2K7GdLkrrYYM5NKfiefUQnP2J3Z28g@HIDDEN> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004b37fe05f83c6cff" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --0000000000004b37fe05f83c6cff Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Or use: cp --no-clover $in $out || true But again, surprising behavior. Just a new special case to memorize. On Sat, 1 Apr 2023 at 03:36, Alberto Salvia Novella <es20490446e@HIDDEN> wrote: > I get the impression that right now --no-clover is optimized for the less > common scenarios, while making it less useful for the common ones. > > Also --update isn't a substitute of --no-clover. As --no-clover is for > copying when the file is missing, not when it isn't updated. > > For example imagine that I have a config template, and a script copies th= e > template only if it is missing using --no-clover. > > If I did the same with --update it could happen the following: the packag= e > that provides the template updates, then --update will override the confi= g > even if it exists, just because the source file is now newer. No good. > > So right now the only option that I have is to avoid both --no-clover and > --update all together, and to test for the file existence separately. So > totally useless. > > On Sat, 1 Apr 2023 at 01:29, Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> wrote: > >> On 2023-03-31 14:32, P=C3=A1draig Brady wrote: >> >> > Perhaps we should support: >> > --no-clobber[=3D{skip, fail (default)}] >> > >> > so then users can at least easily change -n to --no-clobber=3Dskip >> > to get the old behavior? >> > >> > An alternative would be to augment the --update option to support: >> > --update[=3D{none, older (default)}] >> > where --update=3Dnone would be the equivalent of the old -n behavior. >> >> The latter sounds a bit better but I suppose either would work. We could >> generalize it a bit further, e.g.: >> >> --skip-diagnose[=3D{yes,no}] >> Whether to diagnose a copying action being skipped. >> --skip-fail[=3D{yes,no}] >> Whether exit status should be 1 when skipping a copying action. >> >> Presumably similar options would apply to ln and mv. >> >> All these extra options might be overkill, though. >> >> >> > Perhaps we should also diagnose files skipped in the -n fail case, >> > to make it easier for users to see what the issue is. >> >> FreeBSD cp -n doesn't diagnose, and GNU cp -n has never diagnosed, so >> it's probably better to leave sleeping dogs lie. >> > --0000000000004b37fe05f83c6cff Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Or use:</div><div>cp --no-clover $in= $out || true</div><div><br></div><div>But again, surprising behavior. Just= a new special case to memorize.<br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo= te"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, 1 Apr 2023 at 03:36, Albe= rto Salvia Novella <<a href=3D"mailto:es20490446e@HIDDEN">es20490446e= @gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style= =3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding= -left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>I get the impression that right now --no-c= lover is optimized for the less common scenarios, while making it less usef= ul for the common ones.</div><div><br></div><div>Also --update isn't a = substitute of --no-clover. As --no-clover is for copying when the file is m= issing, not when it isn't updated.</div><div><br></div><div>For example= imagine that I have a config template, and a script copies the template on= ly if it is missing using --no-clover.</div><div><br></div><div>If I did th= e same with --update it could happen the following: the package that provid= es the template updates, then --update will override the config even if it = exists, just because the source file is now newer. No good.</div><div><br><= /div><div>So right now the only option that I have is to avoid both --no-cl= over and --update all together, and to test for the file existence separate= ly. So totally useless.<br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div = dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, 1 Apr 2023 at 01:29, Paul Eggert &= lt;<a href=3D"mailto:eggert@HIDDEN" target=3D"_blank">eggert@HIDDEN= du</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margi= n:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex= ">On 2023-03-31 14:32, P=C3=A1draig Brady wrote:<br> <br> > Perhaps we should support:<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 --no-clobber[=3D{skip, fail (default)}]<br> > <br> > so then users can at least easily change -n to --no-clobber=3Dskip<br> > to get the old behavior?<br> > <br> > An alternative would be to augment the --update option to support:<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 --update[=3D{none, older (default)}]<br> > where --update=3Dnone would be the equivalent of the old -n behavior.<= br> <br> The latter sounds a bit better but I suppose either would work. We could <b= r> generalize it a bit further, e.g.:<br> <br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0--skip-diagnose[=3D{yes,no}]<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Whether to diagnose a copying action being skipped.<br= > =C2=A0 =C2=A0--skip-fail[=3D{yes,no}]<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Whether exit status should be 1 when skipping a copyin= g action.<br> <br> Presumably similar options would apply to ln and mv.<br> <br> All these extra options might be overkill, though.<br> <br> <br> > Perhaps we should also diagnose files skipped in the -n fail case,<br> > to make it easier for users to see what the issue is.<br> <br> FreeBSD cp -n doesn't diagnose, and GNU cp -n has never diagnosed, so <= br> it's probably better to leave sleeping dogs lie.<br> </blockquote></div> </blockquote></div></div> --0000000000004b37fe05f83c6cff--
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#62572: cp --no-clobber behavior has changed Resent-From: Alberto Salvia Novella <es20490446e@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-coreutils@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2023 14:48:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.62572.B62572.168036043517099 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 62572 X-GNU-PR-Package: coreutils X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?P=C3=A1draig?= Brady <P@HIDDEN>, Sven Joachim <svenjoac@HIDDEN>, 62572 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 62572-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B62572.168036043517099 (code B ref 62572); Sat, 01 Apr 2023 14:48:02 +0000 Received: (at 62572) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Apr 2023 14:47:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38380 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1picVf-0004Ri-6R for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 Apr 2023 10:47:15 -0400 Received: from mail-yw1-f175.google.com ([209.85.128.175]:39578) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <es20490446e@HIDDEN>) id 1picVd-0004RV-Fa for 62572 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 Apr 2023 10:47:14 -0400 Received: by mail-yw1-f175.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-54606036bb3so304096747b3.6 for <62572 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 01 Apr 2023 07:47:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; t=1680360427; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=PDbNdOgn7J+6WAxPFchv035RtdreKZdm+zPAZJ3yLWo=; b=jstG6OBicC/Ovdm5JxVq7fgXAv1FNXd0VffXvR/FLsRAoOb0gXEKp5tqCOOTsO2uhX o63Z1sB/58IOyYxHvLYp1nsnr5gsAhspkwz6Nv/IOEklFGJUrIF6rshMO4qvLUjqCqFK WdciJdHpfjAY+eUP0QdLBHF7o+PvWe8bluboqFxViN4wQndLOu6xlnHJPKYTE4qaS3HP y7PDXUKAo1qK0snHkamL4xvui8kOLmL9JnjaTDZ9Zh34gHUKyQI+OS87w/kuZybt1QcO qkWUdi8vInx+ksUBuVr6TRgv8E01luk1LI4z5sYinlbkT7VCGV2uT8bHpXsrI/LDcMhd /Edg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; t=1680360427; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=PDbNdOgn7J+6WAxPFchv035RtdreKZdm+zPAZJ3yLWo=; b=ZL14Cix+IFiVShRWgYfQ4C8Nr66YxagjftDqpWC+TV/RkD95kGOOXMYeyQrSnaBEGQ izL9DwTepIQPru/wHcce1r3YvCy0HqpFRETbuYkpw1hxcpVyEMQ6gHqJc/S9Orrql9Mi uQahLeRRTckIsX9+7y3d+QvVpzekr9tYSu8QTKke5Ig7jLvL5tljQOa83ocsYRHFPHYj n48rfrBArCM3kluV0mf0fzHa6SV1T2dm0z9mNGuNGPRUUAsAxdi6aunSFo02xfXPwRP+ IrgXbht0+ednArWBY/AnbhpiRj0mEkDfRTgk8d4Kl4GktWVdVe+wg/WKFDZqM2LoYZnK dO+w== X-Gm-Message-State: AAQBX9eED9DbZw9pv9IIe5trOLe03W6hvCXsUKWvc93tVKGoDiXVnI+Q eW3QTwx3hH21vRTE5roPI/jImu7IRdQ+EY5tbeg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AKy350aV1nuNQz+nv4gIcMPO6teD78UEVycY+RQX5f6/9tdUga+BIDGkRGH9jDb45Kb7f/vpBEmgDkGQduE/Z7TWfRE= X-Received: by 2002:a81:d007:0:b0:546:81f:a89e with SMTP id v7-20020a81d007000000b00546081fa89emr9356137ywi.9.1680360427443; Sat, 01 Apr 2023 07:47:07 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <CAHJvkbsWyJJnN3fi4tmdQa5CxOXg7O+BqZizzDLei1uNpy=bzw@HIDDEN> <0cab4887-df33-0404-9a1b-9a84c87b7087@HIDDEN> <87jzyw3bdl.fsf@HIDDEN> <be44d664-2fe6-e46f-db3c-b3f457ce3e05@HIDDEN> <a0606475-50a0-a074-667f-52775961c7b6@HIDDEN> <c550aba1-e842-0185-3545-736d2d7a0f8f@HIDDEN> <CAHJvkbtKq9HxruHHAxjxHVjnehYBSLHRNErEH8ZcEDVFRVE0bw@HIDDEN> <CAHJvkbsWJdax7Xk1Fu-N2K7GdLkrrYYM5NKfiefUQnP2J3Z28g@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <CAHJvkbsWJdax7Xk1Fu-N2K7GdLkrrYYM5NKfiefUQnP2J3Z28g@HIDDEN> From: Alberto Salvia Novella <es20490446e@HIDDEN> Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2023 16:46:55 +0200 Message-ID: <CAHJvkbsY3B=PGxxoU03AJNHL_iSBsyDQcY_T=JKu8ob2DGJNzg@HIDDEN> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000005f58cf05f8476699" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --0000000000005f58cf05f8476699 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Also there's now a bigger problem: that you cannot tell when the copy failed because the file exists, or because any other reason. People will just use: cp --no-clover $in $out || true But if it fails for any other reason, cross your fingers. Hence now the option, in practice, is useless. Nobody should be using it. On Sat, 1 Apr 2023 at 03:41, Alberto Salvia Novella <es20490446e@HIDDEN> wrote: > Or use: > cp --no-clover $in $out || true > > But again, surprising behavior. Just a new special case to memorize. > > On Sat, 1 Apr 2023 at 03:36, Alberto Salvia Novella <es20490446e@HIDDEN= m> > wrote: > >> I get the impression that right now --no-clover is optimized for the les= s >> common scenarios, while making it less useful for the common ones. >> >> Also --update isn't a substitute of --no-clover. As --no-clover is for >> copying when the file is missing, not when it isn't updated. >> >> For example imagine that I have a config template, and a script copies >> the template only if it is missing using --no-clover. >> >> If I did the same with --update it could happen the following: the >> package that provides the template updates, then --update will override = the >> config even if it exists, just because the source file is now newer. No >> good. >> >> So right now the only option that I have is to avoid both --no-clover an= d >> --update all together, and to test for the file existence separately. So >> totally useless. >> >> On Sat, 1 Apr 2023 at 01:29, Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> wrote: >> >>> On 2023-03-31 14:32, P=C3=A1draig Brady wrote: >>> >>> > Perhaps we should support: >>> > --no-clobber[=3D{skip, fail (default)}] >>> > >>> > so then users can at least easily change -n to --no-clobber=3Dskip >>> > to get the old behavior? >>> > >>> > An alternative would be to augment the --update option to support: >>> > --update[=3D{none, older (default)}] >>> > where --update=3Dnone would be the equivalent of the old -n behavior. >>> >>> The latter sounds a bit better but I suppose either would work. We coul= d >>> generalize it a bit further, e.g.: >>> >>> --skip-diagnose[=3D{yes,no}] >>> Whether to diagnose a copying action being skipped. >>> --skip-fail[=3D{yes,no}] >>> Whether exit status should be 1 when skipping a copying action. >>> >>> Presumably similar options would apply to ln and mv. >>> >>> All these extra options might be overkill, though. >>> >>> >>> > Perhaps we should also diagnose files skipped in the -n fail case, >>> > to make it easier for users to see what the issue is. >>> >>> FreeBSD cp -n doesn't diagnose, and GNU cp -n has never diagnosed, so >>> it's probably better to leave sleeping dogs lie. >>> >> --0000000000005f58cf05f8476699 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Also there's now a bigger problem: that you canno= t tell when the copy failed because the file exists, or because any other r= eason.</div><div><br></div><div>People will just use:</div><div>cp --no-clo= ver $in $out || true</div><div><br></div><div>But if it fails for any other= reason, cross your fingers.</div><div><br></div><div>Hence now the option,= in practice, is useless. Nobody should be using it.<br></div><br></div><br= ><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, 1= Apr 2023 at 03:41, Alberto Salvia Novella <<a href=3D"mailto:es20490446= e@HIDDEN">es20490446e@HIDDEN</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote clas= s=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid r= gb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Or= use:</div><div>cp --no-clover $in $out || true</div><div><br></div><div>Bu= t again, surprising behavior. Just a new special case to memorize.<br></div= ></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr"= >On Sat, 1 Apr 2023 at 03:36, Alberto Salvia Novella <<a href=3D"mailto:= es20490446e@HIDDEN" target=3D"_blank">es20490446e@HIDDEN</a>> wrot= e:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0= .8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"l= tr"><div>I get the impression that right now --no-clover is optimized for t= he less common scenarios, while making it less useful for the common ones.<= /div><div><br></div><div>Also --update isn't a substitute of --no-clove= r. As --no-clover is for copying when the file is missing, not when it isn&= #39;t updated.</div><div><br></div><div>For example imagine that I have a c= onfig template, and a script copies the template only if it is missing usin= g --no-clover.</div><div><br></div><div>If I did the same with --update it = could happen the following: the package that provides the template updates,= then --update will override the config even if it exists, just because the= source file is now newer. No good.</div><div><br></div><div>So right now t= he only option that I have is to avoid both --no-clover and --update all to= gether, and to test for the file existence separately. So totally useless.<= br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gma= il_attr">On Sat, 1 Apr 2023 at 01:29, Paul Eggert <<a href=3D"mailto:egg= ert@HIDDEN" target=3D"_blank">eggert@HIDDEN</a>> wrote:<br></d= iv><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;bord= er-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">On 2023-03-31 14:32, P= =C3=A1draig Brady wrote:<br> <br> > Perhaps we should support:<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 --no-clobber[=3D{skip, fail (default)}]<br> > <br> > so then users can at least easily change -n to --no-clobber=3Dskip<br> > to get the old behavior?<br> > <br> > An alternative would be to augment the --update option to support:<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 --update[=3D{none, older (default)}]<br> > where --update=3Dnone would be the equivalent of the old -n behavior.<= br> <br> The latter sounds a bit better but I suppose either would work. We could <b= r> generalize it a bit further, e.g.:<br> <br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0--skip-diagnose[=3D{yes,no}]<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Whether to diagnose a copying action being skipped.<br= > =C2=A0 =C2=A0--skip-fail[=3D{yes,no}]<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Whether exit status should be 1 when skipping a copyin= g action.<br> <br> Presumably similar options would apply to ln and mv.<br> <br> All these extra options might be overkill, though.<br> <br> <br> > Perhaps we should also diagnose files skipped in the -n fail case,<br> > to make it easier for users to see what the issue is.<br> <br> FreeBSD cp -n doesn't diagnose, and GNU cp -n has never diagnosed, so <= br> it's probably better to leave sleeping dogs lie.<br> </blockquote></div> </blockquote></div></div> </blockquote></div> --0000000000005f58cf05f8476699--
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[95.44.90.175]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id z15-20020adfec8f000000b002cf1c435afcsm5174233wrn.11.2023.04.01.08.43.24 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 01 Apr 2023 08:43:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <d856336f-f4e6-340b-5659-4c5a87e510e1@HIDDEN> Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2023 16:43:23 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:109.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/109.0 Content-Language: en-US References: <CAHJvkbsWyJJnN3fi4tmdQa5CxOXg7O+BqZizzDLei1uNpy=bzw@HIDDEN> <0cab4887-df33-0404-9a1b-9a84c87b7087@HIDDEN> <87jzyw3bdl.fsf@HIDDEN> <be44d664-2fe6-e46f-db3c-b3f457ce3e05@HIDDEN> <a0606475-50a0-a074-667f-52775961c7b6@HIDDEN> <c550aba1-e842-0185-3545-736d2d7a0f8f@HIDDEN> <CAHJvkbtKq9HxruHHAxjxHVjnehYBSLHRNErEH8ZcEDVFRVE0bw@HIDDEN> <CAHJvkbsWJdax7Xk1Fu-N2K7GdLkrrYYM5NKfiefUQnP2J3Z28g@HIDDEN> <CAHJvkbsY3B=PGxxoU03AJNHL_iSBsyDQcY_T=JKu8ob2DGJNzg@HIDDEN> From: =?UTF-8?Q?P=C3=A1draig?= Brady <P@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <CAHJvkbsY3B=PGxxoU03AJNHL_iSBsyDQcY_T=JKu8ob2DGJNzg@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.9 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) On 01/04/2023 15:46, Alberto Salvia Novella wrote: > Also there's now a bigger problem: that you cannot tell when the copy > failed because the file exists, or because any other reason. > > People will just use: > cp --no-clover $in $out || true > > But if it fails for any other reason, cross your fingers. > > Hence now the option, in practice, is useless. Nobody should be using it. Well the current thinking is -n is useful to fail with unexpected existing files. For the functionality you want of only updating non existent files, one should use the proposed --update=none new option. It's worth mentioning that this being a new option impacts the portability of scripts that use it. cheers, Pádraig
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#62572: cp --no-clobber behavior has changed Resent-From: =?UTF-8?Q?P=C3=A1draig?= Brady <P@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-coreutils@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2023 15:45:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.62572.B62572.168036388723322 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 62572 X-GNU-PR-Package: coreutils X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN>, Sven Joachim <svenjoac@HIDDEN> Cc: Alberto Salvia Novella <es20490446e@HIDDEN>, 62572 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 62572-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B62572.168036388723322 (code B ref 62572); Sat, 01 Apr 2023 15:45:01 +0000 Received: (at 62572) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Apr 2023 15:44:47 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38413 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1pidPK-000645-Tn for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 Apr 2023 11:44:47 -0400 Received: from mail-wr1-f54.google.com ([209.85.221.54]:45780) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <pixelbeat@HIDDEN>) id 1pidPI-00063s-JD for 62572 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 Apr 2023 11:44:45 -0400 Received: by mail-wr1-f54.google.com with SMTP id r11so25227507wrr.12 for <62572 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 01 Apr 2023 08:44:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; t=1680363879; x=1682955879; h=in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to:content-language:subject :user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id:sender:from:to:cc:subject :date:message-id:reply-to; bh=/epVHPTftd8xCSTQYKKhGi29qSmywfyi8I3+AcGkU+w=; b=cig3VL8X6zLZjGIUSZlYKTNfbaYoorL6S0pMgdktfJMVs4V69F/H2TDHDRBGWMo3eA qm0wQWtlH8zadkPogaGNs64VestQKregUSYHR3m5c0X6gLGgMqXIrmLs2Rg7lP4EFizt ZZpU6zHbmbwhKLdChxXRKUruaohgd6QlQLMfhozNf+vkHTXiO/lh1kKsPnW4iWcyrd4Z 88BbiFO4/qZZk92DfXQ66yE8nCxZepmgM5eo8Gm1yrVuUY6DC/NA9Xg1am5xnFksXY5m Xj7B9TUpBgTJuf/oUvscZAUogU1DcMHFlxVGw5SAoz85XdnOnbi7YtBwUVJSN5LNKcDh icfw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; t=1680363879; x=1682955879; h=in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to:content-language:subject :user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id:sender:x-gm-message-state :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=/epVHPTftd8xCSTQYKKhGi29qSmywfyi8I3+AcGkU+w=; b=3R8qgMQTUtHAJCiYRQWTKZDWAuF+tS5ph536MgWIQi8Fb29X/S4TVmO0QvSaZxd9t6 Uj1WGvNnavvmzfgdjJNi7NwmfKv/V8qwTCV/fOUs1xt8FsoTtqbWnRbfuoGGcmaQdurv j/6H7a+5sSUDPmufrA2By9Zqg8zUq7WvvUkdGWEvnkeRT627mYeaYg97SeJJ7PqLrv/b aILbfLtx9MawYVBlgncnuEy73FaPaitCMQI4mwhbDliO9uRkGIuXFUS3Uer+3CLU1QNi h4E/FGjY4XT/jsIfoRHm5h+i2DrfrpZg2MArMZ730WJrjYHFjZ+XeIBXNWU7/WermoxS O2NA== X-Gm-Message-State: AAQBX9eAQWnN1MCccFB+BcoSvFgjMbUbfYLSKTFvnKJRg3ylgbHL0EQ7 geRmMXc9Bpj9X2/lEi+8aKA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AKy350aDEZBaFTjTW+osvQp3QazvIHDANT1xGm56GJK51w9/Pf14SAqtukgNjKccLaDUT+ftoW6iAw== X-Received: by 2002:adf:ce01:0:b0:2e2:730a:c7dc with SMTP id p1-20020adfce01000000b002e2730ac7dcmr12514421wrn.25.1680363878839; Sat, 01 Apr 2023 08:44:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.9] (95-44-90-175-dynamic.agg2.lod.rsl-rtd.eircom.net. [95.44.90.175]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id z15-20020adfec8f000000b002cf1c435afcsm5174233wrn.11.2023.04.01.08.44.37 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 01 Apr 2023 08:44:38 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------yPqQDaddEV0MEPeCfrdxNBNq" Message-ID: <b784ffef-7115-b240-226b-2d8224d22137@HIDDEN> Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2023 16:44:37 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:109.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/109.0 Content-Language: en-US References: <CAHJvkbsWyJJnN3fi4tmdQa5CxOXg7O+BqZizzDLei1uNpy=bzw@HIDDEN> <0cab4887-df33-0404-9a1b-9a84c87b7087@HIDDEN> <87jzyw3bdl.fsf@HIDDEN> <be44d664-2fe6-e46f-db3c-b3f457ce3e05@HIDDEN> <a0606475-50a0-a074-667f-52775961c7b6@HIDDEN> <c550aba1-e842-0185-3545-736d2d7a0f8f@HIDDEN> From: =?UTF-8?Q?P=C3=A1draig?= Brady <P@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <c550aba1-e842-0185-3545-736d2d7a0f8f@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -0.9 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------yPqQDaddEV0MEPeCfrdxNBNq Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 01/04/2023 00:29, Paul Eggert wrote: > On 2023-03-31 14:32, Pádraig Brady wrote: > >> Perhaps we should support: >>  --no-clobber[={skip, fail (default)}] >> >> so then users can at least easily change -n to --no-clobber=skip >> to get the old behavior? >> >> An alternative would be to augment the --update option to support: >>  --update[={none, older (default)}] >> where --update=none would be the equivalent of the old -n behavior. > > The latter sounds a bit better but I suppose either would work. We could > generalize it a bit further, e.g.: > > --skip-diagnose[={yes,no}] > Whether to diagnose a copying action being skipped. > --skip-fail[={yes,no}] > Whether exit status should be 1 when skipping a copying action. > > Presumably similar options would apply to ln and mv. > > All these extra options might be overkill, though. > > >> Perhaps we should also diagnose files skipped in the -n fail case, >> to make it easier for users to see what the issue is. > > FreeBSD cp -n doesn't diagnose, and GNU cp -n has never diagnosed, so > it's probably better to leave sleeping dogs lie. OK first stab at --update=none support is attached. cheers, Pádraig --------------yPqQDaddEV0MEPeCfrdxNBNq Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; name="copy--update-none-patch" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="copy--update-none-patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 RnJvbSAxZDA2MTcyNThiNGU5NjA1ZTM0ODY3OWRmMzYxMGMzNTZjODM3N2IwIE1vbiBTZXAg MTcgMDA6MDA6MDAgMjAwMQpGcm9tOiA9P1VURi04P3E/UD1DMz1BMWRyYWlnPTIwQnJhZHk/ PSA8UEBkcmFpZ0JyYWR5LmNvbT4KRGF0ZTogU2F0LCAxIEFwciAyMDIzIDE2OjI3OjUyICsw MTAwClN1YmplY3Q6IFtQQVRDSF0gY3AsbXY6IGFkZCAtLXVwZGF0ZT1ub25lIHRvIGFsd2F5 cyBza2lwIGV4aXN0aW5nIGZpbGVzCgpBZGQgLS11cGRhdGU9bm9uZSB3aGljaCBpcyBlcXVp dmFsZW50IHRvIHRoZSAtLW5vLWNsb2JiZXIgYmVoYXZpb3IKZnJvbSBiZWZvcmUgY29yZXV0 aWxzIDkuMi4gIEkuZS4gZXhpc3RpbmcgZmlsZXMgYXJlIHVuY29uZGl0aW9uYWxseQpza2lw cGVkLCBhbmQgdGhlbSBub3QgYmVpbmcgY29waWVkIGRvZXMgbm90IGFmZmVjdCB0aGUgZXhp dCBzdGF0dXMuCgoqIHNyYy9jb3B5LmggW2VudW0gVXBkYXRlX3R5cGVdOiBBIG5ldyB0eXBl 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X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#62572: cp --no-clobber behavior has changed Resent-From: Alberto Salvia Novella <es20490446e@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-coreutils@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2023 18:15:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.62572.B62572.16803728678643 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 62572 X-GNU-PR-Package: coreutils X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: =?UTF-8?Q?P=C3=A1draig?= Brady <P@HIDDEN> Cc: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN>, Sven Joachim <svenjoac@HIDDEN>, 62572 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 62572-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B62572.16803728678643 (code B ref 62572); Sat, 01 Apr 2023 18:15:02 +0000 Received: (at 62572) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Apr 2023 18:14:27 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38593 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1pifkB-0002FL-5p for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 Apr 2023 14:14:27 -0400 Received: from mail-yw1-f171.google.com ([209.85.128.171]:44832) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <es20490446e@HIDDEN>) id 1pifk9-0002F7-DB for 62572 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 Apr 2023 14:14:26 -0400 Received: by mail-yw1-f171.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-5419d4c340aso475798857b3.11 for <62572 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 01 Apr 2023 11:14:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; t=1680372859; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=LopcLY/XidvCrloiZZNcMUteJGqfQvqtTuw+f1+gXis=; b=OGk22r3XuC8zQAQkWLJZOQsagmHOBAWe3g2e4DBzbeliW9kGPYFo1GMQ9fkc/+By6U N31HLiSB9VRydWNH69nFgNjQjisqZ+mPPRxBFg+yZNvbrPhUmSvLsbdt7HoGhJzfdGfb QO6he/2pevDwhlJOLKwzGnc7FtWM6Mgh2dQR4aLZSo7VQ1ARLX8RDkTKRsQ+shr+wkMM +s8I0o5+oDMDfCwBBlINTe3j7OFOKj6eVpDY6C/gYoNItnbiEJu67X51Mrik9P7FO7ws /U/DWhaf7HOYmze3J0B2yONcrLTRT7PY3FauqgAGJZK2AOuoVsZEB8DGZ3hdQb5PxKGZ 4R3g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; t=1680372859; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=LopcLY/XidvCrloiZZNcMUteJGqfQvqtTuw+f1+gXis=; b=3+9hWweHX9IBX+vX/N+erYrzBKsN8J+/PObBdUrScpqk1Tpx7NDATD6CAbnXMRTcz2 FnrPQnC4pZicSO5w21HsL1wFhK8vEiaq1UphwZO/bvLxaoouTfoKrtjs2+wJrMrQoXVl mVNZo4Dk4cBu93dPpsCyEcno1ExcPvDe/uJmjngV3UJ7Knvljp7nncV4hT6i6IwRSCwO cyJJXoMt5zx0ao2K2cHrUOaMZnQscmepEzAbj+lVE9D8SdpxZIgLkBi+uR8tPbsqhokc 9v1rkFyBmyxhTD4/CnG1z+oaaCDq24GDfLJySsY3hCSCAcuE3oX7TXnHpkIFBvaDCW8M a4EQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AAQBX9e/Snor2dJhYEsbrlPOwWTUPFbpUvKMNIwK0Rc6Aq2mnlZB2dp1 Hzq9+dSI9vBMUyLT+8az3OTkVSAQIEVDhQb2mmA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AKy350ZO7FswJXG4G64hotePvOnIeVs3rtqoQzhcY04O/7NUuZRC4J4VP10L4faaA3UXWFi+hyDabGpkLs/57It4W2o= X-Received: by 2002:a81:b647:0:b0:534:d71f:14e6 with SMTP id h7-20020a81b647000000b00534d71f14e6mr14742692ywk.9.1680372859484; Sat, 01 Apr 2023 11:14:19 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <CAHJvkbsWyJJnN3fi4tmdQa5CxOXg7O+BqZizzDLei1uNpy=bzw@HIDDEN> <0cab4887-df33-0404-9a1b-9a84c87b7087@HIDDEN> <87jzyw3bdl.fsf@HIDDEN> <be44d664-2fe6-e46f-db3c-b3f457ce3e05@HIDDEN> <a0606475-50a0-a074-667f-52775961c7b6@HIDDEN> <c550aba1-e842-0185-3545-736d2d7a0f8f@HIDDEN> <b784ffef-7115-b240-226b-2d8224d22137@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <b784ffef-7115-b240-226b-2d8224d22137@HIDDEN> From: Alberto Salvia Novella <es20490446e@HIDDEN> Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2023 20:14:07 +0200 Message-ID: <CAHJvkbtDHgx0v7Bg=7g0+CA_1yrWnKP_UX=CTDKFAqhVs9=eAQ@HIDDEN> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000613f5005f84a4be8" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --000000000000613f5005f84a4be8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Maybe simpler: -m --missing Only copy non existing files. On Sat, 1 Apr 2023 at 17:44, P=C3=A1draig Brady <P@HIDDEN> wrote: > On 01/04/2023 00:29, Paul Eggert wrote: > > On 2023-03-31 14:32, P=C3=A1draig Brady wrote: > > > >> Perhaps we should support: > >> --no-clobber[=3D{skip, fail (default)}] > >> > >> so then users can at least easily change -n to --no-clobber=3Dskip > >> to get the old behavior? > >> > >> An alternative would be to augment the --update option to support: > >> --update[=3D{none, older (default)}] > >> where --update=3Dnone would be the equivalent of the old -n behavior. > > > > The latter sounds a bit better but I suppose either would work. We coul= d > > generalize it a bit further, e.g.: > > > > --skip-diagnose[=3D{yes,no}] > > Whether to diagnose a copying action being skipped. > > --skip-fail[=3D{yes,no}] > > Whether exit status should be 1 when skipping a copying action. > > > > Presumably similar options would apply to ln and mv. > > > > All these extra options might be overkill, though. > > > > > >> Perhaps we should also diagnose files skipped in the -n fail case, > >> to make it easier for users to see what the issue is. > > > > FreeBSD cp -n doesn't diagnose, and GNU cp -n has never diagnosed, so > > it's probably better to leave sleeping dogs lie. > > OK first stab at --update=3Dnone support is attached. > > cheers, > P=C3=A1draig > --000000000000613f5005f84a4be8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Maybe simpler:</div><div><br></div><div>-m --missing<= /div><div>Only copy non existing files.<br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gm= ail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, 1 Apr 2023 at 17:4= 4, P=C3=A1draig Brady <<a href=3D"mailto:P@HIDDEN">P@draigbrady.= com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"marg= in:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1e= x">On 01/04/2023 00:29, Paul Eggert wrote:<br> > On 2023-03-31 14:32, P=C3=A1draig Brady wrote:<br> > <br> >> Perhaps we should support:<br> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 --no-clobber[=3D{skip, fail (default)}]<br> >><br> >> so then users can at least easily change -n to --no-clobber=3Dskip= <br> >> to get the old behavior?<br> >><br> >> An alternative would be to augment the --update option to support:= <br> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 --update[=3D{none, older (default)}]<br> >> where --update=3Dnone would be the equivalent of the old -n behavi= or.<br> > <br> > The latter sounds a bit better but I suppose either would work. We cou= ld<br> > generalize it a bit further, e.g.:<br> > <br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0--skip-diagnose[=3D{yes,no}]<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Whether to diagnose a copying action being = skipped.<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0--skip-fail[=3D{yes,no}]<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Whether exit status should be 1 when skippi= ng a copying action.<br> > <br> > Presumably similar options would apply to ln and mv.<br> > <br> > All these extra options might be overkill, though.<br> > <br> > <br> >> Perhaps we should also diagnose files skipped in the -n fail case,= <br> >> to make it easier for users to see what the issue is.<br> > <br> > FreeBSD cp -n doesn't diagnose, and GNU cp -n has never diagnosed,= so<br> > it's probably better to leave sleeping dogs lie.<br> <br> OK first stab at --update=3Dnone support is attached.<br> <br> cheers,<br> P=C3=A1draig<br> </blockquote></div> --000000000000613f5005f84a4be8--
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#62572: cp --no-clobber behavior has changed Resent-From: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-coreutils@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2023 22:46:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.62572.B62572.168038910314592 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 62572 X-GNU-PR-Package: coreutils X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: =?UTF-8?Q?P=C3=A1draig?= Brady <P@HIDDEN>, Sven Joachim <svenjoac@HIDDEN> Cc: Alberto Salvia Novella <es20490446e@HIDDEN>, 62572 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 62572-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B62572.168038910314592 (code B ref 62572); Sat, 01 Apr 2023 22:46:02 +0000 Received: (at 62572) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Apr 2023 22:45:03 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38690 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1pijy2-0003n6-KX for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 Apr 2023 18:45:03 -0400 Received: from mail.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.66]:44792) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eggert@HIDDEN>) id 1pijy0-0003mT-DU for 62572 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 01 Apr 2023 18:45:01 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B00A3C09FA02; Sat, 1 Apr 2023 15:44:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id kllVQtrRW3he; Sat, 1 Apr 2023 15:44:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC6533C09FA05; Sat, 1 Apr 2023 15:44:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 mail.cs.ucla.edu CC6533C09FA05 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cs.ucla.edu; s=9D0B346E-2AEB-11ED-9476-E14B719DCE6C; t=1680389093; bh=mwx+P9FJecOfFWqJYn2e2cXCh25EnMNTU09zFfVK990=; h=Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:To:From; b=AWqPRMB7uS8B/6XZ8QowN9g5jttV1wlNozhKE/CT+ZF4OkX5d2UTBo+t+k/wZ7VeX tHb9Wp8hgLrWacSx9dKcGKhZqr54+Ieyk3XXNNUz7nfcCluwVnz1VATbkuPBOozZ0l e2hqdRAP7KhJ9lJjDRbnf7ftIxO0/11RqpBtLoJ96lwjsrFHVpz00AqZ96s2OXlxrZ O3+14I62lgbUMWEydO7pdl343GXUSAJ8RruYV1UAfhG2U7hYSkWNbc1Ilc6Fk75f0i KQRSlFOb06Souz6mBwzKN8UENM7de/QJQhL+aXZGBxoOxeIX/UvXzoAxG4Nope33h0 puqxmVIp2sG7g== X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mail.cs.ucla.edu Received: from mail.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id IhujA2-UWLWM; Sat, 1 Apr 2023 15:44:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.9] (cpe-172-91-119-151.socal.res.rr.com [172.91.119.151]) by mail.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A69763C09FA02; Sat, 1 Apr 2023 15:44:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <8450ada9-f787-1131-6ac9-34278032e540@HIDDEN> Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2023 15:44:53 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.9.0 Content-Language: en-US References: <CAHJvkbsWyJJnN3fi4tmdQa5CxOXg7O+BqZizzDLei1uNpy=bzw@HIDDEN> <0cab4887-df33-0404-9a1b-9a84c87b7087@HIDDEN> <87jzyw3bdl.fsf@HIDDEN> <be44d664-2fe6-e46f-db3c-b3f457ce3e05@HIDDEN> <a0606475-50a0-a074-667f-52775961c7b6@HIDDEN> <c550aba1-e842-0185-3545-736d2d7a0f8f@HIDDEN> <b784ffef-7115-b240-226b-2d8224d22137@HIDDEN> From: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department In-Reply-To: <b784ffef-7115-b240-226b-2d8224d22137@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -1.1 (-) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) On 2023-04-01 08:44, P=C3=A1draig Brady wrote: > OK first stab at --update=3Dnone support is attached. Thanks, some comments: > + /* Always Overwrite. */ > + UPDATE_OVERWRITE, Might be better to call this UPDATE_ALL as it doesn't overwrite if you=20 use cp -l or -s or (in some cases) --preserve=3Dlinks. > +static char const *const update_type_string[] =3D > +{ > + "none", "older", NULL > +}; Perhaps there should also be an --update=3Dall, which is the same as no=20 update option at all? It would presumably override previous --update=20 suboptions. > -n, --no-clobber do not overwrite an existing file (over= rides\n\ > - a previous -i option)\n\ > + a -u or previous -i option)\n\ Shouldn't -n override only previous -u or --update options? I thought=20 these options were processed left to right, with later overriding earlier= . > + -u only update when the SOURCE file is new= er\n\ > than the destination file or when the= \n\ > destination file is missing\n\ > + --update[=3DUPDATE_MODE] like -u, but support skipping existin= g files;\n\ > + UPDATE_MODE=3D{none,older(default)}\n= \ This might be clearer if we describe --update first, and then say that=20 -u is equivalent to plain --update. > + if (make_backups && x.interactive =3D=3D I_ALWAYS_SKIP) > + { > + error (0, 0, > + _("options --backup and --update=3Dnone are mutually excl= usive")); > + usage (EXIT_FAILURE); > + } Why is this needed? --backup and -u are not mutually exclusive now.=20 Admittedly --backup is useless when -u is given, but it seems a bit=20 harsh to error out.
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[95.44.90.175]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id r1-20020a5d4941000000b002cfefa50a8esm6937503wrs.98.2023.04.02.03.10.19 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 02 Apr 2023 03:10:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <4be12628-6a34-7b37-b3a3-561ec0231f69@HIDDEN> Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2023 11:10:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:109.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/109.0 Content-Language: en-US References: <CAHJvkbsWyJJnN3fi4tmdQa5CxOXg7O+BqZizzDLei1uNpy=bzw@HIDDEN> <0cab4887-df33-0404-9a1b-9a84c87b7087@HIDDEN> <87jzyw3bdl.fsf@HIDDEN> <be44d664-2fe6-e46f-db3c-b3f457ce3e05@HIDDEN> <a0606475-50a0-a074-667f-52775961c7b6@HIDDEN> <c550aba1-e842-0185-3545-736d2d7a0f8f@HIDDEN> <b784ffef-7115-b240-226b-2d8224d22137@HIDDEN> <8450ada9-f787-1131-6ac9-34278032e540@HIDDEN> From: =?UTF-8?Q?P=C3=A1draig?= Brady <P@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <8450ada9-f787-1131-6ac9-34278032e540@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -0.9 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) On 01/04/2023 23:44, Paul Eggert wrote: > On 2023-04-01 08:44, Pádraig Brady wrote: > >> OK first stab at --update=none support is attached. > > Thanks, some comments: > > >> + /* Always Overwrite. */ >> + UPDATE_OVERWRITE, > > Might be better to call this UPDATE_ALL as it doesn't overwrite if you > use cp -l or -s or (in some cases) --preserve=links. +1 >> +static char const *const update_type_string[] = >> +{ >> + "none", "older", NULL >> +}; > > Perhaps there should also be an --update=all, which is the same as no > update option at all? It would presumably override previous --update > suboptions. +1 >> -n, --no-clobber do not overwrite an existing file (overrides\n\ >> - a previous -i option)\n\ >> + a -u or previous -i option)\n\ > > Shouldn't -n override only previous -u or --update options? I thought > these options were processed left to right, with later overriding earlier. Well I was just keeping the existing global treatment of -n wrt -u, as per: https://github.com/coreutils/coreutils/commit/7e244891b -n does seem like more of a global "make sure you don't overwrite anything" setting (which is analogous to the shell "noclobber" option BTW which also induces a failure when triggered). I'll think a bit more about this. >> + -u only update when the SOURCE file is newer\n\ >> than the destination file or when the\n\ >> destination file is missing\n\ >> + --update[=UPDATE_MODE] like -u, but support skipping existing files;\n\ >> + UPDATE_MODE={none,older(default)}\n\ > > This might be clearer if we describe --update first, and then say that > -u is equivalent to plain --update. +1 >> + if (make_backups && x.interactive == I_ALWAYS_SKIP) >> + { >> + error (0, 0, >> + _("options --backup and --update=none are mutually exclusive")); >> + usage (EXIT_FAILURE); >> + } > > Why is this needed? --backup and -u are not mutually exclusive now. > Admittedly --backup is useless when -u is given, but it seems a bit > harsh to error out. Yes --backup is redundant with -n or --update=none. We already disallowed --backup with -n, so I was just being consistent with disallowing --backup with --update=none. I'll remove this new restriction. thanks for the review, Pádraig
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#62572: cp --no-clobber behavior has changed Resent-From: =?UTF-8?Q?P=C3=A1draig?= Brady <P@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-coreutils@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2023 14:51:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.62572.B62572.168079262017281 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 62572 X-GNU-PR-Package: coreutils X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN>, Sven Joachim <svenjoac@HIDDEN> Cc: Alberto Salvia Novella <es20490446e@HIDDEN>, 62572 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 62572-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B62572.168079262017281 (code B ref 62572); Thu, 06 Apr 2023 14:51:01 +0000 Received: (at 62572) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Apr 2023 14:50:20 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54691 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1pkQwN-0004Ue-1r for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 06 Apr 2023 10:50:20 -0400 Received: from mail-wm1-f53.google.com ([209.85.128.53]:39659) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <pixelbeat@HIDDEN>) id 1pkQwK-0004UQ-TQ for 62572 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 06 Apr 2023 10:50:18 -0400 Received: by mail-wm1-f53.google.com with SMTP id i5-20020a05600c354500b003edd24054e0so25673492wmq.4 for <62572 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 06 Apr 2023 07:50:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; t=1680792611; x=1683384611; h=in-reply-to:references:cc:to:from:content-language:subject :user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id:sender:from:to:cc:subject :date:message-id:reply-to; bh=cYJ/QklACM6XjRPuZ1UKAsIOjrG7FL4m917qp3F5kv4=; b=mPhWKJ2BlfdLfbMOEMnYxIyHf7alImk3OysLMiu9TSYa9RaJIHtJdrvRCly7WhpEIP mAQrcrBsKrSx2cYohNfvQ3pgo1p7EHawhsfVtCEuaGIEyhKaI0oqlbUr4dfijOsG3fir jVjgSiOmfdwVRMlFicyMTRvJX8xLuuxWm06Y713mT37j0lqLNZ+IdCSmEjPweEtiLW7w uBeSS/5Bfh7Lhu4K9Id4Oc3LQJCZLb6/JIPnV/asALcRModcF81/kVnlKW1XxMjGI9oq mPYrCDm8nGI901CIndyBL3Bhhmg5vWzK/MdgT+1oyEUpYpBqwMfWbLyMD3t9Iqa4wGTs VgDg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; t=1680792611; x=1683384611; h=in-reply-to:references:cc:to:from:content-language:subject :user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id:sender:x-gm-message-state :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=cYJ/QklACM6XjRPuZ1UKAsIOjrG7FL4m917qp3F5kv4=; b=cbP1fXho022Xgr+ZE7g8P/17/IesISDlAff7ntczpB606vbFvvyNYaNCvbECsql+VL XSeVci8nNUhqQ2QkQ+IwwBDW8KLAJ5+mvSRh9AH2St73NB7U+Gav+pseZ7e/Uxhuxk/A 1qJeZ7oousMZGWFz7fh83REasLL6HiNl1V8oAr9SfCMEYJ77wo7odr459OyBmEovPIPE ibgW5yn+FiFJkHuibWv2j/m2we/9OUmEA+Jxqwv8YAkbgPsH4+Ukj5PuMepRmabqrGvR ou+zXyKTl0v+69FGmo6cMlQvfi4PKuKRFV7YnwhaKBa4bPf+s3SndTqnvxndBVVFV71K Vj3Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AAQBX9fQaEnBWWgZP7FUUFWH6GWeAX1vpOc12vRXRODPft5h2u599yLD TnR7GAoMH8Ik2+ezi995QcA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AKy350bFxT3m5IML163Br4ENVJLtnlyl6e0VGpShste+gxNF6p0xT8Cg4jLEz+/QxU1M8wUDK3e4GQ== X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:2052:b0:3dc:4fd7:31e9 with SMTP id p18-20020a05600c205200b003dc4fd731e9mr7820643wmg.7.1680792610526; Thu, 06 Apr 2023 07:50:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.9] (95-44-90-175-dynamic.agg2.lod.rsl-rtd.eircom.net. [95.44.90.175]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id l25-20020a05600c1d1900b003f063a709dbsm5996248wms.2.2023.04.06.07.50.09 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 06 Apr 2023 07:50:09 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------G1AAeHVJgVOnsb1iWnc0pf40" Message-ID: <59bf1258-b941-1dda-7786-ec45a567bd81@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2023 15:50:08 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:109.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/109.0 Content-Language: en-US From: =?UTF-8?Q?P=C3=A1draig?= Brady <P@HIDDEN> References: <CAHJvkbsWyJJnN3fi4tmdQa5CxOXg7O+BqZizzDLei1uNpy=bzw@HIDDEN> <0cab4887-df33-0404-9a1b-9a84c87b7087@HIDDEN> <87jzyw3bdl.fsf@HIDDEN> <be44d664-2fe6-e46f-db3c-b3f457ce3e05@HIDDEN> <a0606475-50a0-a074-667f-52775961c7b6@HIDDEN> <c550aba1-e842-0185-3545-736d2d7a0f8f@HIDDEN> <b784ffef-7115-b240-226b-2d8224d22137@HIDDEN> <8450ada9-f787-1131-6ac9-34278032e540@HIDDEN> <4be12628-6a34-7b37-b3a3-561ec0231f69@HIDDEN> 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charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Take 2 attached. cheers, Pádraig --------------G1AAeHVJgVOnsb1iWnc0pf40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; name="copy--update-none-patch" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="copy--update-none-patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 RnJvbSA4NDlhYTU2NThjMGZiZjFlOGQyYmFlYzJmYzNiMDFiMmRkYjIzYzUwIE1vbiBTZXAg MTcgMDA6MDA6MDAgMjAwMQpGcm9tOiA9P1VURi04P3E/UD1DMz1BMWRyYWlnPTIwQnJhZHk/ PSA8UEBkcmFpZ0JyYWR5LmNvbT4KRGF0ZTogU2F0LCAxIEFwciAyMDIzIDE2OjI3OjUyICsw MTAwClN1YmplY3Q6IFtQQVRDSF0gY3AsbXY6IGFkZCAtLXVwZGF0ZT1ub25lIHRvIGFsd2F5 cyBza2lwIGV4aXN0aW5nIGZpbGVzCgpBZGQgLS11cGRhdGU9bm9uZSB3aGljaCBpcyBlcXVp dmFsZW50IHRvIHRoZSAtLW5vLWNsb2JiZXIgYmVoYXZpb3IKZnJvbSBiZWZvcmUgY29yZXV0 aWxzIDkuMi4gIEkuZS4gZXhpc3RpbmcgZmlsZXMgYXJlIHVuY29uZGl0aW9uYWxseQpza2lw cGVkLCBhbmQgdGhlbSBub3QgYmVpbmcgY29waWVkIGRvZXMgbm90IGFmZmVjdCB0aGUgZXhp dCBzdGF0dXMuCgoqIHNyYy9jb3B5LmggW2VudW0gVXBkYXRlX3R5cGVdOiBBIG5ldyB0eXBl 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X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#62572: Make the errorlevel distinct perhaps? References: <CAHJvkbsWyJJnN3fi4tmdQa5CxOXg7O+BqZizzDLei1uNpy=bzw@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <CAHJvkbsWyJJnN3fi4tmdQa5CxOXg7O+BqZizzDLei1uNpy=bzw@HIDDEN> Resent-From: Thorsten Glaser <tg@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-coreutils@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2023 01:09:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.62572.B62572.169975128121332 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 62572 X-GNU-PR-Package: coreutils X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 62572 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 62572-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B62572.169975128121332 (code B ref 62572); Sun, 12 Nov 2023 01:09:01 +0000 Received: (at 62572) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Nov 2023 01:08:01 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54685 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1r1yxF-0005Xo-Es for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 Nov 2023 20:08:01 -0500 Received: from herc.mirbsd.org ([2001:470:1f15:10c:202:b3ff:feb7:54e8]:7906 ident=root) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <tg@HIDDEN>) id 1r1yxC-0005XV-P0 for 62572 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 11 Nov 2023 20:08:00 -0500 Received: from herc.mirbsd.org (tg@HIDDEN [192.168.0.82]) by herc.mirbsd.org (8.14.9/8.14.5) with ESMTP id 3AC13HYl025402 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <62572 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 12 Nov 2023 01:03:24 GMT Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2023 01:03:17 +0000 (UTC) From: Thorsten Glaser <tg@HIDDEN> X-X-Sender: tg@HIDDEN Message-ID: <Pine.BSM.4.64L.2311120100210.22407@HIDDEN> Content-Language: de-DE-1901, en-GB MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi, from https://bugs.debian.org/1055694 where this broke things where files were deliberately not overwritten (klibc installs its utils but only those busybox (when used) does not provide). In this case not copying the file is absolutely not an error. Perhaps do it like diff(1) and use distinct errorlevels for some files were not copied in -n mode vs. there was an error in those that *were* copied. Then document that in the manpage as extension and reach out to FreeBSD to follow. bye, //mirabilos -- (gnutls can also be used, but if you are compiling lynx for your own use, there is no reason to consider using that package) -- Thomas E. Dickey on the Lynx mailing list, about OpenSSL
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#62572: cp --no-clobber behavior has changed References: <CAHJvkbsWyJJnN3fi4tmdQa5CxOXg7O+BqZizzDLei1uNpy=bzw@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <CAHJvkbsWyJJnN3fi4tmdQa5CxOXg7O+BqZizzDLei1uNpy=bzw@HIDDEN> Resent-From: Michael Stone <mstone@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-coreutils@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2023 15:57:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.62572.B62572.170265577531303 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 62572 X-GNU-PR-Package: coreutils X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: 62572 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Cc: 1058752@HIDDEN Received: via spool by 62572-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B62572.170265577531303 (code B ref 62572); Fri, 15 Dec 2023 15:57:01 +0000 Received: (at 62572) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Dec 2023 15:56:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53385 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1rEAXv-00088p-1a for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 15 Dec 2023 10:56:15 -0500 Received: from stravinsky.debian.org ([2001:41b8:202:deb::311:108]:54012) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <mstone@HIDDEN>) id 1rEAXt-00088f-5E for 62572 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 15 Dec 2023 10:56:13 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=debian.org; s=smtpauto.stravinsky; h=X-Debian-User:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: Subject:Cc:To:From:Date:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:In-Reply-To:References; bh=ZvgYtz+ybf/P2AHrCoA1RnKj2/SVswrROIXirQTErzw=; b=NLhwwNKm2/nT16yGC91kUvHVHI sRgZbJTRzZ6sfj3cykFBbhuJzUwhxVHXDOgzLN0XCqvFSEBNU5vMTG7LWdBrCDvA5tZNBW6QxrSL1 9jmnQx4rM+EIAjvNbYYYw2PaVO8Ltp+i+9VqImqXRXbeJk0nVsinI1ZGB++I/x+awRA1ickRVqrrY PGT7k7qSDLi6ExIjKTlDi3lQxJ54FB/SoQAsMtOSPhQz+YkYiFWtgp0s6nPRpfZM+BPvI1jGfAC2V 5NcAarjXicNqh/s8EXeb9GYvHjC3tStD6ve0CSsyFyAF/GBtPPdROeMX4R8jtvuON/J6RTEyE53yf kci5fS/Q==; Received: from authenticated user by stravinsky.debian.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_X25519__RSA_PSS_RSAE_SHA256__AES_256_GCM:256) (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from <mstone@HIDDEN>) id 1rEAXp-008fDh-S0; Fri, 15 Dec 2023 15:56:10 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by osgiliath.mathom.us (Postfix) with ESMTP id 511EF6E779; Fri, 15 Dec 2023 10:56:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from osgiliath.mathom.us ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (osgiliath.mathom.us [127.0.0.1]) (amavis, port 10024) with LMTP id 0dgX_LUDIMfy; Fri, 15 Dec 2023 10:56:03 -0500 (EST) Received: by osgiliath.mathom.us (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 1E6C46E842; Fri, 15 Dec 2023 10:56:03 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2023 10:56:03 -0500 From: Michael Stone <mstone@HIDDEN> Message-ID: <baeec81a-9b60-11ee-9b6a-00163eeb5320@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline X-Debian-User: mstone X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) I tend to think this was a serious mistake: it breaks the behavior of existing scripts with no deprecation period. A stated advantage is better compatibility with freebsd, but I don't understand why that is more desirable than compatibility with all deployed gnu/linux systems? I also don't think it's sufficient to try to lawyer out by saying that the current behavior was undocumented: the previous documentation said that -n would "silently do nothing" and that the return code would be zero on success. Logically, unless cp fails to "do nothing", it should exit with a zero code. Such a drastic change in behavior demands a new flag, not a radical repurposing of a widely used existing flag. I was hoping to see more action on this bug, but that hasn't happened. I'm not sure I see a way forward for debian other than reverting to the old behavior. I am reluctant to do so as that will likely lead to divergent behavior between distributions, but breaking scripts without a compelling reason is also not good. I would encourage coreutils to reconsider the change and finding a non-breaking way forward. Michael Stone
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#62572: cp --no-clobber behavior has changed Resent-From: =?UTF-8?Q?P=C3=A1draig?= Brady <P@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-coreutils@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2023 18:34:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.62572.B62572.170266519126182 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 62572 X-GNU-PR-Package: coreutils X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Michael Stone <mstone@HIDDEN>, 62572 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Cc: 1058752@HIDDEN Received: via spool by 62572-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B62572.170266519126182 (code B ref 62572); Fri, 15 Dec 2023 18:34:01 +0000 Received: (at 62572) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Dec 2023 18:33:11 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53442 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1rECzm-0006oE-ER for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 15 Dec 2023 13:33:10 -0500 Received: from mail-wm1-x32f.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::32f]:52526) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <pixelbeat@HIDDEN>) id 1rECzk-0006o1-OS for 62572 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 15 Dec 2023 13:33:09 -0500 Received: by mail-wm1-x32f.google.com with SMTP id 5b1f17b1804b1-40c6736d10fso11960315e9.1 for <62572 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 15 Dec 2023 10:33:08 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1702665182; x=1703269982; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to :content-language:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :sender:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=slHkAI9ktELTgL79QsavQxlArJrfYceNuSxhOWBXZ7Q=; b=AW/LxQ2CvXgumjcp7XLu025OAVexarhEwa3wAfLQJUYtum729zQdGfRtJ0XMeAkQq3 DbnvgBT2nLnKwVWzmPKyXekZfySnm3r4WdixKJlVPVFkFXdqEUGT4c6xNbuFbFzwVkm5 6CgMiD3Pw3ku3WZeKjsCl/IcBEOZ3MsjVTV+Zz0sdnRK/Cs5O1URfmbrxvays5xUel73 4wdL0d/63/7FYEAgQM3PCkoHmH+RUW3KEgTeqWaqGBCBfbDyuYOQ7iehl4VKldllsHSM KM1BcRH8W7+WXSDMO6ilO79/L3NUPw6twATTBpaVmAW9Ufn3j5d06SK1YDL6e0DByz47 MFNA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1702665182; x=1703269982; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to :content-language:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :sender:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=slHkAI9ktELTgL79QsavQxlArJrfYceNuSxhOWBXZ7Q=; b=VNNBYDmwSJWu1Qzj6tz41QgOgvhkfGRfJNpGHW/XBRaEhqNifmMeT8rFyHsIkm3JeG o0kL+xRbd80AYZKWpbPUrWz2tp3dYhMGZ1NIXAnkENs5BD1BtcRFccVlpPLISD8FM10U 5cpCW8h/hgbFCNF3KcNiv1wMfab+StUarLazVRTzBhLgrVjjuMF3Qu0o2GTODh7kiS1o rNt6A6qyoABvAA5oNCjYGALfXCsUwGq9JJzXwTHm+dyVbAJkpvYucvu81LJLK9ZXWEtx R7K8bZw/oyIL2SX2j3QKBwFVvd3ngRXdIc294q99t96W4qdVkBoJdxp1n3U/v0MrpN7i t3tA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YynWnsfUR/jVr8O/p/diiWpn2xy9sxFYrFy6xju3fMKLVyB79KH EVUMEmDqw70AOL6Ulfa/6jk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IENaWfyMdh57KfvGbxKD9X0M94K5FrtxhqQavjcbz9+Eb2P+uUeL5iJeoujX9yRsXNWg0a/8w== X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:4a9f:b0:40c:5583:c6bb with SMTP id b31-20020a05600c4a9f00b0040c5583c6bbmr3718938wmp.174.1702665181946; Fri, 15 Dec 2023 10:33:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.20] (95-44-90-175-dynamic.agg2.lod.rsl-rtd.eircom.net. [95.44.90.175]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id k20-20020a05600c479400b0040c6a2f7387sm855227wmo.0.2023.12.15.10.33.00 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 15 Dec 2023 10:33:01 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3225f182-5eda-be18-e6ce-43b4b7967f2c@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2023 18:33:00 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Content-Language: en-US References: <CAHJvkbsWyJJnN3fi4tmdQa5CxOXg7O+BqZizzDLei1uNpy=bzw@HIDDEN> <baeec81a-9b60-11ee-9b6a-00163eeb5320@HIDDEN> From: =?UTF-8?Q?P=C3=A1draig?= Brady <P@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <baeec81a-9b60-11ee-9b6a-00163eeb5320@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) On 15/12/2023 15:56, Michael Stone wrote: > I tend to think this was a serious mistake: it breaks the behavior of > existing scripts with no deprecation period. A stated advantage is > better compatibility with freebsd, but I don't understand why that is > more desirable than compatibility with all deployed gnu/linux systems? I > also don't think it's sufficient to try to lawyer out by saying that the > current behavior was undocumented: the previous documentation said that > -n would "silently do nothing" and that the return code would be zero on > success. Logically, unless cp fails to "do nothing", it should exit with > a zero code. > > Such a drastic change in behavior demands a new flag, not a radical > repurposing of a widely used existing flag. > > I was hoping to see more action on this bug, but that hasn't happened. > I'm not sure I see a way forward for debian other than reverting to the > old behavior. I am reluctant to do so as that will likely lead to > divergent behavior between distributions, but breaking scripts without a > compelling reason is also not good. I would encourage coreutils to > reconsider the change and finding a non-breaking way forward. Yes it's a fair point. It's an awkward case, and worth discussing. To summarise: coreutils >= 7.1 had -n skip existing in dest (2009) coreutils >= 9.2 has -n immediately fail if existing in dest coreutils >= 9.3 has --update=none to skip existing in dest FreeBSD >= 4.7/macos has -n immediately fail if existing in dest bash has noclobber as a file protection mechanism, and fails immediately upon trying to overwrite a file. This is more consistent with the new coreutils behavior. I see a reasonable amount of cp -n usage across github: https://github.com/search?q=/cp+.*+-n+.*/+path:*.sh&type=code Now it's not clear which behavior these github usages expect, and the original docs didn't make it clear which behavior to expect. A quick scan of the github usages also seem mainly to expect a protection rather than an update use case, so failing immediately would be the most appropriate action there too. Also the original coreutils bug report here expected the new behaviour. So we probably all agree that failing immediately is the most appropriate / consistent -n behavior, but GNU had diverged from that so there are about 10 years of scripts that may expect the silent skip behavior. Two options I see are: - Leave as is and fix -n usages that expected the skip behavior - Deprecate -n entirely and prompt to use --update={fail,none} Advantages of leaving as is: We get consistency of "noclobber" behavior across systems / shells. We fix cases where previously scripts could have proceeded with stale old files in place. Disadvantages of leaving as is: Users expecting the skip behavior, have to change to --update=none. There is no potential for data loss etc. so it just comes down to how disruptive it is, or how often -n was used with the "skip behavior" assumption. We've not had much push back as of yet, and my current thinking is it's not that disruptive a change. So I'd be 55:45 if favor of keeping things as is. thanks, Pádraig.
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#62572: cp --no-clobber behavior has changed Resent-From: Michael Stone <mstone@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-coreutils@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2023 18:51:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.62572.B62572.17026662105425 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 62572 X-GNU-PR-Package: coreutils X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: =?UTF-8?Q?P=C3=A1draig?= Brady <P@HIDDEN> Cc: 1058752@HIDDEN, 62572 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 62572-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B62572.17026662105425 (code B ref 62572); Fri, 15 Dec 2023 18:51:01 +0000 Received: (at 62572) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Dec 2023 18:50:10 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53451 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1rEDGD-0001PR-Tn for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 15 Dec 2023 13:50:10 -0500 Received: from stravinsky.debian.org ([2001:41b8:202:deb::311:108]:60808) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <mstone@HIDDEN>) id 1rEDGC-0001PE-Al for 62572 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 15 Dec 2023 13:50:09 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=debian.org; s=smtpauto.stravinsky; h=X-Debian-User:In-Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:Cc:To:From:Date: Reply-To:Content-ID:Content-Description; bh=4ZBZYPXwEv6OAHiyBbTQN+zVXVblacuk/CNPnKV3d5k=; b=wMXaANjWFK2u+k1VEXdfsa4P7y sDBAf9MZ+Ji1dA8IZ8Cu9If3nRr1/Y+jB2/WxaBo3llsKYHRrQWparvg4lbaYnhzUAD1Edh5kbPxj 4HGF9N+iwRb0OslFx0PYOnFnBOj1cGnBIl8at762BouRpAVVu6o18WPpbDt8Ma3ZjWmcdkZmgKYoh uixwEDmJaCiTl0xxwELAPMIg7G5AXRW0VYXKGFS47OVAhe+CHnRRboKz/IxKhKjxkPNixCOeiyMZq w/5V7TiDSZA6dZuLTL7m+wE90vVu8IyhLBBQa1PWewM80C6xFC81NO6obpX385W37/nHRhdQDJl9H pU24olSA==; Received: from authenticated user by stravinsky.debian.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_X25519__RSA_PSS_RSAE_SHA256__AES_256_GCM:256) (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from <mstone@HIDDEN>) id 1rEDG8-008ll6-Jd; Fri, 15 Dec 2023 18:50:04 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by osgiliath.mathom.us (Postfix) with ESMTP id 367156E779; Fri, 15 Dec 2023 13:50:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from osgiliath.mathom.us ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (osgiliath.mathom.us [127.0.0.1]) (amavis, port 10024) with LMTP id Q6Hcyd89EIA1; Fri, 15 Dec 2023 13:49:59 -0500 (EST) Received: by osgiliath.mathom.us (Postfix, from userid 1000) id D57AC6E842; Fri, 15 Dec 2023 13:49:59 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2023 13:49:59 -0500 From: Michael Stone <mstone@HIDDEN> Message-ID: <b04da120-9b78-11ee-9b6a-00163eeb5320@HIDDEN> References: <CAHJvkbsWyJJnN3fi4tmdQa5CxOXg7O+BqZizzDLei1uNpy=bzw@HIDDEN> <baeec81a-9b60-11ee-9b6a-00163eeb5320@HIDDEN> <3225f182-5eda-be18-e6ce-43b4b7967f2c@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <3225f182-5eda-be18-e6ce-43b4b7967f2c@HIDDEN> X-Pgp-Fingerprint: 02D5 315F F11F 1861 860E 1E02 F61A ACDC FA11 FFDE X-Debian-User: mstone X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) On Fri, Dec 15, 2023 at 06:33:00PM +0000, Pádraig Brady wrote: >Advantages of leaving as is: >We get consistency of "noclobber" behavior across systems / shells. You don't, unless you ignore the coreutils/linux installed base entirely. Essentially the current situation is that -n shouldn't be used if you expect a certain behavior for this case and you are writing a script for linux systems. Maybe in 10 years you'll be able to assume the new behavior. Better to just tell people to not use it at all, and leave the historic behavior alone until everyone has stopped using -n entirely. >There is no potential for data loss etc. There may not be, strictly speaking, if you look only at cp without context, but we have absolutely no idea what the impact is on the unknown number of existing scripts that depend on the historic behavior. This is causing breakages in practice. >so it just comes >down to how disruptive it is, or how often -n was used >with the "skip behavior" assumption. IMO, it should come down to trying to avoid breaking changes in core system utilities. There's no compelling reason to force this change, so why break anything that depended on the historic behavior--especially without any notice or transition period--regardless of arguments over whether the historic behavior was right? >We've not had much push back as of yet, >and my current thinking is it's not that disruptive a change. I suspect that's because it has not yet been widely deployed, which makes now the time to fix it. Michael Stone
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#62572: cp --no-clobber behavior has changed Resent-From: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-coreutils@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2023 19:22:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.62572.B62572.170266807528546 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 62572 X-GNU-PR-Package: coreutils X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Michael Stone <mstone@HIDDEN>, =?UTF-8?Q?P=C3=A1draig?= Brady <P@HIDDEN> Cc: 1058752@HIDDEN, 62572 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 62572-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B62572.170266807528546 (code B ref 62572); Fri, 15 Dec 2023 19:22:03 +0000 Received: (at 62572) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Dec 2023 19:21:15 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53465 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1rEDkJ-0007QL-FB for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 15 Dec 2023 14:21:15 -0500 Received: from mail.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.66]:38232) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eggert@HIDDEN>) id 1rEDkG-0007Q0-TG for 62572 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 15 Dec 2023 14:21:13 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC9BD3C011BD7; Fri, 15 Dec 2023 11:21:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id ZalbAW26P_Ua; Fri, 15 Dec 2023 11:21:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6888E3C011BD8; Fri, 15 Dec 2023 11:21:06 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 mail.cs.ucla.edu 6888E3C011BD8 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cs.ucla.edu; s=9D0B346E-2AEB-11ED-9476-E14B719DCE6C; t=1702668066; bh=wPyzi35t/ByMQ1O7F7NkTj+2xVy+/RrmIZcZ5DwanEE=; h=Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:To:From; b=OmHSqJiVmJYgl5PzL2T5rzfdmkpRe67JfADECCWYL+BEU+i8qfMdw8+w6aE+uKNqQ 12auhhe3C7MzSiqs3MaKX0klAATN24CRkC2SWTa4mPrx6opwbPoFrsMkgzy/M1EZgg yvonvPZZPKqri/0P7w358N19iBSS6UceMN0GTLbiHDE/3oAmOfl5bEugVXumDJkSP0 kPCnmz+zx3REdqoN730eo+/cntNbzZJvUyB0u/ZAZsLXFYFhWPvU81J+s9qDbGJ7lW wvwDsHlm6MHelFlUh1ZB+9h80SEBqHJH9mUUHOpDQG72d+Vy5BDO735l9Oju24VVsK +gVGDL/u5rSOQ== X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mail.cs.ucla.edu Received: from mail.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id 8KMMXTf-HrdZ; Fri, 15 Dec 2023 11:21:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.254.12] (unknown [47.148.192.211]) by mail.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3D3303C011BD7; Fri, 15 Dec 2023 11:21:06 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <08b5b5cf-6ede-4a58-b0b3-0abf3fce157d@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2023 11:21:06 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Content-Language: en-US References: <CAHJvkbsWyJJnN3fi4tmdQa5CxOXg7O+BqZizzDLei1uNpy=bzw@HIDDEN> <baeec81a-9b60-11ee-9b6a-00163eeb5320@HIDDEN> <3225f182-5eda-be18-e6ce-43b4b7967f2c@HIDDEN> <b04da120-9b78-11ee-9b6a-00163eeb5320@HIDDEN> From: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department In-Reply-To: <b04da120-9b78-11ee-9b6a-00163eeb5320@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 2023-12-15 10:49, Michael Stone wrote: > There's no compelling reason to force this change Well, certainly nobody compelled us at gunpoint.... Stlll, P=C3=A1draig gave a reasonable summary of why the change was made,= =20 despite its incompatibility with previous behavior. (One thing I'd add=20 is that the FreeBSD behavior is inherently less race-prone.) It seemed=20 like a good idea at the time all things considered, and to my mind still=20 does. > Essentially the current situation is that -n shouldn't be used if you e= xpect a certain behavior for this case and you are writing a script for l= inux systems. Maybe in 10 years you'll be able to assume the new behavior= . Better to just tell people to not use it at all, and leave the historic= behavior alone until everyone has stopped using -n entirely. Even if we tell people not to use -n at all, that doesn't mean we should=20 revert to the coreutils 9.1 behavior. The cat is to some extent out of the bag. Unless one insists on (FreeBSD=20 | coreutils 9.2-9.4), or insist on coreutils 7.1-9.1, one should not=20 rely on cp -n failing or silently succeeding when the destination=20 already exists. This will remain true regardless of whether coreutils=20 reverts to its 7.1-9.1 behavior.
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#62572: cp --no-clobber behavior has changed Resent-From: Michael Stone <mstone@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-coreutils@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2023 20:14:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.62572.B62572.1702671208604 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 62572 X-GNU-PR-Package: coreutils X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> Cc: 1058752@HIDDEN, =?UTF-8?Q?P=C3=A1draig?= Brady <P@HIDDEN>, 62572 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 62572-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B62572.1702671208604 (code B ref 62572); Fri, 15 Dec 2023 20:14:02 +0000 Received: (at 62572) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Dec 2023 20:13:28 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53517 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1rEEYq-00009g-G1 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 15 Dec 2023 15:13:28 -0500 Received: from stravinsky.debian.org ([2001:41b8:202:deb::311:108]:34148) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <mstone@HIDDEN>) id 1rEEYo-00009U-MB for 62572 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 15 Dec 2023 15:13:27 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=debian.org; s=smtpauto.stravinsky; h=X-Debian-User:In-Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject:Cc:To:From:Date: Reply-To:Content-ID:Content-Description; bh=8+6bY5jLJTe8COB1O8x7IgB8slx1HrFEQXMysgxzrYI=; b=Iyanhn4oHNF8MxAm/IVNt+czLv z7r26DPSOkHdjmKafN8iY3ua0mpeb8rvotwVvgBscpnsKBHGn8rkP9c+SBSytXyFGJwAFxeeCuf/D acHFpOdYEWTmWuwAutEPYpD6cNMwz/Af7indEgfckALOCxpFi5Cd/4VCWrnitsArpwTGKNva5mCqq ygde/33UclkFjvS3Hqt4wRzGhPKqSWv4Nm/lcPC1mkciOAEgEr4rHVUlgWxdXFVsvKeyzv81qKPix ZqUgtUwCEri31rjBqZ5grAn+EpRwMP2nUF0y8mURJjRrSRqzTaI4ZE6RQ5QyBJzoJpX8KEpO3n9zI 3EtyKTfg==; Received: from authenticated user by stravinsky.debian.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_X25519__RSA_PSS_RSAE_SHA256__AES_256_GCM:256) (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from <mstone@HIDDEN>) id 1rEEYh-008oop-Gx; Fri, 15 Dec 2023 20:13:19 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by osgiliath.mathom.us (Postfix) with ESMTP id 530B16E779; Fri, 15 Dec 2023 15:13:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from osgiliath.mathom.us ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (osgiliath.mathom.us [127.0.0.1]) (amavis, port 10024) with LMTP id Ivgq3lwvGU_s; Fri, 15 Dec 2023 15:13:16 -0500 (EST) Received: by osgiliath.mathom.us (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 2285B6E842; Fri, 15 Dec 2023 15:13:16 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2023 15:13:16 -0500 From: Michael Stone <mstone@HIDDEN> Message-ID: <a3848fd8-9b84-11ee-9b6a-00163eeb5320@HIDDEN> References: <CAHJvkbsWyJJnN3fi4tmdQa5CxOXg7O+BqZizzDLei1uNpy=bzw@HIDDEN> <baeec81a-9b60-11ee-9b6a-00163eeb5320@HIDDEN> <3225f182-5eda-be18-e6ce-43b4b7967f2c@HIDDEN> <b04da120-9b78-11ee-9b6a-00163eeb5320@HIDDEN> <08b5b5cf-6ede-4a58-b0b3-0abf3fce157d@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <08b5b5cf-6ede-4a58-b0b3-0abf3fce157d@HIDDEN> X-Pgp-Fingerprint: 02D5 315F F11F 1861 860E 1E02 F61A ACDC FA11 FFDE X-Debian-User: mstone X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) On Fri, Dec 15, 2023 at 11:21:06AM -0800, Paul Eggert wrote: >Stlll, Pádraig gave a reasonable summary of why the change was made, >despite its incompatibility with previous behavior. (One thing I'd add >is that the FreeBSD behavior is inherently less race-prone.) It seemed >like a good idea at the time all things considered, and to my mind >still does. I think you underestimate the value of maintaining compatibity with deployed versions. In the abstract it may have been a nice cleanup, but there are a lot of dumb things in the posix utilities that have been dumb for so long it's not worth the pain of changing them. Since this change hasn't yet hit mainstream debian, ubuntu, rhel, or suse users, I strongly suspect that this is a case where the absence of complaints is simply a sign that most of the people who'd be impacted haven't experienced the change yet. >Even if we tell people not to use -n at all, that doesn't mean we >should revert to the coreutils 9.1 behavior. It does, IMO, as it would be less likely to break scripts written by existing coreutils users. >The cat is to some extent out of the bag. Unless one insists on >(FreeBSD | coreutils 9.2-9.4), or insist on coreutils 7.1-9.1, one >should not rely on cp -n failing or silently succeeding when the >destination already exists. This will remain true regardless of >whether coreutils reverts to its 7.1-9.1 behavior. Or you use a distribution that has to patch to maintain compatibility between versions. Ideally upstream would revert the behavior for now, deprecate as the long term fix, and all distributions would work the same. The other option is that each distribution decides whether to be compatible with upstream coreutils or their own previous release.
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#62572: cp --no-clobber behavior has changed Resent-From: Bernhard Voelker <mail@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-coreutils@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2023 21:48:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.62572.B62572.170276325026248 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 62572 X-GNU-PR-Package: coreutils X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Michael Stone <mstone@HIDDEN>, Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> Cc: 1058752@HIDDEN, =?UTF-8?Q?P=C3=A1draig?= Brady <P@HIDDEN>, 62572 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 62572-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B62572.170276325026248 (code B ref 62572); Sat, 16 Dec 2023 21:48:02 +0000 Received: (at 62572) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Dec 2023 21:47:30 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56222 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1rEcVN-0006pG-NW for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 16 Dec 2023 16:47:30 -0500 Received: from mout.kundenserver.de ([212.227.17.13]:55611) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <mail@HIDDEN>) id 1rEcVJ-0006on-7q for 62572 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 16 Dec 2023 16:47:28 -0500 Received: from [192.168.101.10] ([91.49.71.159]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue108 [212.227.15.183]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MdeX1-1roEMc14Yz-00ZgbN; Sat, 16 Dec 2023 22:46:59 +0100 Message-ID: <6c4fc819-5fbb-45c3-a4cf-f6cc8528f299@HIDDEN> Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2023 22:46:57 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Content-Language: en-US References: <CAHJvkbsWyJJnN3fi4tmdQa5CxOXg7O+BqZizzDLei1uNpy=bzw@HIDDEN> <baeec81a-9b60-11ee-9b6a-00163eeb5320@HIDDEN> <3225f182-5eda-be18-e6ce-43b4b7967f2c@HIDDEN> <b04da120-9b78-11ee-9b6a-00163eeb5320@HIDDEN> <08b5b5cf-6ede-4a58-b0b3-0abf3fce157d@HIDDEN> <a3848fd8-9b84-11ee-9b6a-00163eeb5320@HIDDEN> From: Bernhard Voelker <mail@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <a3848fd8-9b84-11ee-9b6a-00163eeb5320@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:rG9tyRMdhq8EqzGeUdM6FkghRwpN0kUCvbnLgJUSYQj7SAQmWh9 SF54GJEKRMlsRK8bLNQATAM2Ki/avDKsJNySajkL5Moj7IGYgXIcM2ZWueBANtHvJSHK/79 zxNbT/MfkDtQt9nCM30hwgyvlLe6bTRdpEZbM/rvTkgSN19GRqUCtwsuFvtJvsP1uYOhXDj 8iZRJwcwWyKq00uRTsciw== X-Spam-Flag: NO UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:meWY4DeeU/o=;CJ1we1FCo4RtdmT9/gVmDcVqwWI nSAPFhOept7gwL3ux9liooxUF0yvvR80VXLP30LJ625xzlEOWd+MQqDdHs0NjQzS0tPc8EEU9 suzBPXzl3Gq0Q+2JD352zVeI6a8EoJ+aMD5b9Wo3b21s+e3WqeMLKfD1d0rAgdfJipCfBzCDH wS6yK+jeCxj85ST5xewEvYHgsD7lKSUwoM1Cr+lnJj5PnTeeVtxzgGrG5bQBl/dwWGNANp3mT oB0Ina6oZcQwUnb1C55D9VvyvSDFyRuFjK6Sn8PGwjaPaywqM5LsF+wZxbyc2mcnI15iM7kOj dulr/vSMKKwUO46d1k4UH0Hl4cOwBMT3moqAuE+4GAvGkkEC0gvHnzzUt2E59GehnLGNLKnV+ 8O+1xjSMz123p8qSsqOtS2VMtUzC7TytRWuQmqgwFGb2vDXoXwrRqq3CdTXmfh5qT8ULu5w60 9MXIi3ZAwZqn0zXuY32kix9aPDfJoafz+P1UjOWcCURVg6UGxH9O010I0xCCLbl5iDE9hHU12 DR5msBc+fw+GvF5M9KER9b+Eb2Ng5Zu57YnUVhDSEFUL+7j1S5r+uwkCFTZFacD6ZloktvFpE mInaSt9dPCL5EBYM0i1hUKKa17qh7Cjwy4KKbiO6ljL3rZE1lWlDR95boyCb513FCWruN1gD4 bhNGobgAqTzT5aODJKs90esX/HM9unlEnDDXthUGbiM8Oh7OkXVp92a5cUfwL3PlLfBkjS1na hs8DKlC8y45FGGCUjM1q8P5Avjkjt5q8LkkKEtNzrt+uI9B5BGYyLK93lmTtu/0gXcjY2SDNe 2iICvJ5HtoajJyWQBst7JSHJJEwjk9juisfF30Q78J8Gp3b6IsUTJl5QFO5IeVg0FNfZy9UO7 HOzCc0/c/FdWLKw== X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 12/15/23 21:13, Michael Stone wrote: > On Fri, Dec 15, 2023 at 11:21:06AM -0800, Paul Eggert wrote: >> Stlll, Pádraig gave a reasonable summary of why the change was made, >> despite its incompatibility with previous behavior. (One thing I'd add >> is that the FreeBSD behavior is inherently less race-prone.) Whether the implementation is race-prone or not is an internal thing. I think we're currently discussing more on a user-perspective level. IIUC then the question is whether `cp -n` should continue to behave like the (new) `cp --update=none` which returns EXIT_SUCCESS. Regardless what other implementations do, when reading the -n description from a user's point of view: -n, --no-clobber do not overwrite an existing file (overrides a -u or previous -i option). See also --update then I'd expect the tool to just skip existing files like `rsync --ignore-existing` does. In that regard I would be surprised if skipping files would result in an error. Well, I would understand if there'd be a '--no-clobber=fail' option. As Kamil added the option in 2009, I'd assume that the same patch was already active in RHEL versions for quite some longer time. Now changing the exit code feels kind of rough. Therefore, from a pure user's perspective and regarding many years of precedence, I am 80:20 for reverting the exit code change. Have a nice day, Berny
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#62572: cp --no-clobber behavior has changed Resent-From: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-coreutils@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2023 08:35:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.62572.B62572.17028020627661 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 62572 X-GNU-PR-Package: coreutils X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Bernhard Voelker <mail@HIDDEN>, Michael Stone <mstone@HIDDEN> Cc: 1058752@HIDDEN, =?UTF-8?Q?P=C3=A1draig?= Brady <P@HIDDEN>, 62572 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Received: via spool by 62572-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B62572.17028020627661 (code B ref 62572); Sun, 17 Dec 2023 08:35:02 +0000 Received: (at 62572) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Dec 2023 08:34:22 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56559 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1rEmbO-0001zU-1H for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 17 Dec 2023 03:34:22 -0500 Received: from mail.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.66]:34022) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eggert@HIDDEN>) id 1rEmbL-0001zB-NU for 62572 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 17 Dec 2023 03:34:20 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E15D3C011BDC; Sun, 17 Dec 2023 00:34:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id rwF3XZApO6OG; Sun, 17 Dec 2023 00:34:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 317D43C011BDD; Sun, 17 Dec 2023 00:34:12 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 mail.cs.ucla.edu 317D43C011BDD DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cs.ucla.edu; s=9D0B346E-2AEB-11ED-9476-E14B719DCE6C; t=1702802052; bh=1yEKwqTc+em01yQ+h6oydfyOXCWuZjc4aU8uBaPo7eE=; h=Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:To:From; b=q18VgC3F+A5ySgfgtZ3CFxsY7jF4ghJuRovTTahaxF02fzDBESwxpm04wq30Y35+c NV6oSDMYQs62IYFKh9obNJN3/6Nk2lk3bRO+7XumZvwo+lottYkVsIVJWW8KA2n9QT JqnEfElQ88LgDDeFbGQn+rqJ8df5LtJ7sMLHovVcV0+M/jzyIkrytleAHVkMAOgc8G 8emYm5YQ6GwfhVx2awvJYKb0BMOz7nhFjzx2ckXIkBHA3AbQNONimd9Vl7EJsDlqBE o2fg55gHuKSEBQ4wSWSQfpuC45g3mQMN0z1WLifpuypFJv/ob/iuQT3av9ccNOtSwT LGt5KolUccEng== X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mail.cs.ucla.edu Received: from mail.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id 8EeMLk0KZa97; Sun, 17 Dec 2023 00:34:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.254.12] (unknown [47.148.192.211]) by mail.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 026513C011BDC; Sun, 17 Dec 2023 00:34:11 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <00928078-830e-4d01-8627-91e348e71f7c@HIDDEN> Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2023 00:34:11 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Content-Language: en-US References: <CAHJvkbsWyJJnN3fi4tmdQa5CxOXg7O+BqZizzDLei1uNpy=bzw@HIDDEN> <baeec81a-9b60-11ee-9b6a-00163eeb5320@HIDDEN> <3225f182-5eda-be18-e6ce-43b4b7967f2c@HIDDEN> <b04da120-9b78-11ee-9b6a-00163eeb5320@HIDDEN> <08b5b5cf-6ede-4a58-b0b3-0abf3fce157d@HIDDEN> <a3848fd8-9b84-11ee-9b6a-00163eeb5320@HIDDEN> <6c4fc819-5fbb-45c3-a4cf-f6cc8528f299@HIDDEN> From: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department In-Reply-To: <6c4fc819-5fbb-45c3-a4cf-f6cc8528f299@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 2023-12-16 13:46, Bernhard Voelker wrote: > Whether the implementation is race-prone or not is an internal thing. I wasn't referring to the internal implementation. I was referring to cp users. With the newer Coreutils (FreeBSD) behavior, you can reliably write a script to do something if cp -n didn't copy the file because the destination already existed. With the older Coreutils behavior you cannot do that reliably; there will always be a race condition.
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[95.44.90.175]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id f9-20020a05600c154900b0040c4be1af17sm26495743wmg.21.2023.12.17.06.46.04 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 17 Dec 2023 06:46:04 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <69628008-b583-5d15-3a57-338050a140ad@HIDDEN> Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2023 14:46:03 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Content-Language: en-US References: <CAHJvkbsWyJJnN3fi4tmdQa5CxOXg7O+BqZizzDLei1uNpy=bzw@HIDDEN> <baeec81a-9b60-11ee-9b6a-00163eeb5320@HIDDEN> <3225f182-5eda-be18-e6ce-43b4b7967f2c@HIDDEN> <b04da120-9b78-11ee-9b6a-00163eeb5320@HIDDEN> <08b5b5cf-6ede-4a58-b0b3-0abf3fce157d@HIDDEN> <a3848fd8-9b84-11ee-9b6a-00163eeb5320@HIDDEN> <6c4fc819-5fbb-45c3-a4cf-f6cc8528f299@HIDDEN> From: =?UTF-8?Q?P=C3=A1draig?= Brady <P@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <6c4fc819-5fbb-45c3-a4cf-f6cc8528f299@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: 0.5 (/) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) On 16/12/2023 21:46, Bernhard Voelker wrote: > On 12/15/23 21:13, Michael Stone wrote: >> On Fri, Dec 15, 2023 at 11:21:06AM -0800, Paul Eggert wrote: >>> Stlll, Pádraig gave a reasonable summary of why the change was made, To clarify my summary a little, there I said that -n now _immediately_ fails. I should have said _silently_ fails. I.e. the complete copy operation proceeds as before, and only the exit status is at issue here. >>> despite its incompatibility with previous behavior. (One thing I'd add >>> is that the FreeBSD behavior is inherently less race-prone.) > > Whether the implementation is race-prone or not is an internal thing. > I think we're currently discussing more on a user-perspective level. > > IIUC then the question is whether `cp -n` should continue to behave like > the (new) `cp --update=none` which returns EXIT_SUCCESS. > > Regardless what other implementations do, when reading the -n description > from a user's point of view: > > -n, --no-clobber do not overwrite an existing file (overrides a > -u or previous -i option). See also --update > > then I'd expect the tool to just skip existing files like `rsync --ignore-existing` > does. In that regard I would be surprised if skipping files would result in an error. > Well, I would understand if there'd be a '--no-clobber=fail' option. Agreed we should improve the docs a bit for this option. I'll apply this at least: diff --git a/doc/coreutils.texi b/doc/coreutils.texi index 1f8b356d1..bf0f424d3 100644 --- a/doc/coreutils.texi +++ b/doc/coreutils.texi @@ -9057,6 +9057,8 @@ Do not overwrite an existing file; silently fail instead. This option overrides a previous @option{-i} option. This option is mutually exclusive with @option{-b} or @option{--backup} option. +See also the @option{--update=none} option which will +skip existing files but not fail. @item -P @itemx --no-dereference diff --git a/src/cp.c b/src/cp.c index 04a5cbee3..3ccc4c4e6 100644 --- a/src/cp.c +++ b/src/cp.c @@ -192,8 +192,8 @@ Copy SOURCE to DEST, or multiple SOURCE(s) to DIRECTORY.\n\ -L, --dereference always follow symbolic links in SOURCE\n\ "), stdout); fputs (_("\ - -n, --no-clobber do not overwrite an existing file (overrides a\n\ - -u or previous -i option). See also --update\n\ + -n, --no-clobber ensure no existing files overwritten, and fail\n\ + silently instead. See also --update\n\ "), stdout); fputs (_("\ -P, --no-dereference never follow symbolic links in SOURCE\n\ > As Kamil added the option in 2009, I'd assume that the same patch was already > active in RHEL versions for quite some longer time. > Now changing the exit code feels kind of rough. Well RHEL 6 came out a bit after (2010), and had the --no-clobber change, while RHEL 5 before that did not. Taking about distros, it's worth noting that the change is Fedora 39 which has been released for a month now. We'll keep a close eye on issues, but haven't heard much as of yet at least. > Therefore, from a pure user's perspective and regarding many years of precedence, > I am 80:20 for reverting the exit code change. Thanks for your thoughts, appreciated as always. cheers, Pádraig
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#62572: cp --no-clobber behavior has changed Resent-From: Michael Stone <mstone@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-coreutils@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2023 14:50:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.62572.B62572.17028245746316 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 62572 X-GNU-PR-Package: coreutils X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> Cc: Bernhard Voelker <mail@HIDDEN>, =?UTF-8?Q?P=C3=A1draig?= Brady <P@HIDDEN>, 62572 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, 1058752@HIDDEN Received: via spool by 62572-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B62572.17028245746316 (code B ref 62572); Sun, 17 Dec 2023 14:50:02 +0000 Received: (at 62572) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Dec 2023 14:49:34 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56819 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1rEsST-0001dn-Na for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 17 Dec 2023 09:49:33 -0500 Received: from stravinsky.debian.org ([2001:41b8:202:deb::311:108]:36962) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <mstone@HIDDEN>) id 1rEsSQ-0001db-S7 for 62572 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 17 Dec 2023 09:49:31 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=debian.org; s=smtpauto.stravinsky; h=X-Debian-User:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version: References:Message-ID:Subject:Cc:To:From:Date:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description; bh=bAL3rUlNF4Cv9385TVblK3YG6SbGXVhvlFxhl6FBUIA=; b=IOE6zMurMtsOVfefLGpkE/DnAV FVTpcmY/cjXTGMiLYLk8JKG0zFXdm1agaO1oj2sHVZ4q3xx12fTDfNeNjYHY/sG/kSHOyXnbhuWJI 1JlXku6vm9KR16niNGHUZLzsjSci/+AAsKANOMIXY11fsVcgUDJ/Haj6sFcNsBfr3cj2MUbpmLOZA /VclFHzgjqS1ODs3h19f/ocsRq/tuYfenTi5rA1XaMTbLv/72s9itXyab+2j1mnxnZOMmiMSNJwwB BYt3SO3HNtmft+vootFGHLvLEO/GuPm0bB5lxr2MoHZWch0Y6RGNMMZTXTJPHw/FU7QVMp9V0+W9h ClEPgwTA==; Received: from authenticated user by stravinsky.debian.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_X25519__RSA_PSS_RSAE_SHA256__AES_256_GCM:256) (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from <mstone@HIDDEN>) id 1rEsSI-00APPv-2K; Sun, 17 Dec 2023 14:49:22 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by osgiliath.mathom.us (Postfix) with ESMTP id A39B96E7E4; Sun, 17 Dec 2023 09:49:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from osgiliath.mathom.us ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (osgiliath.mathom.us [127.0.0.1]) (amavis, port 10024) with LMTP id 1aGGIHhYOExk; Sun, 17 Dec 2023 09:49:08 -0500 (EST) Received: by osgiliath.mathom.us (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 4E20A6E814; Sun, 17 Dec 2023 09:49:08 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2023 09:49:08 -0500 From: Michael Stone <mstone@HIDDEN> Message-ID: <41581dc6-9ceb-11ee-9b6a-00163eeb5320@HIDDEN> References: <CAHJvkbsWyJJnN3fi4tmdQa5CxOXg7O+BqZizzDLei1uNpy=bzw@HIDDEN> <baeec81a-9b60-11ee-9b6a-00163eeb5320@HIDDEN> <3225f182-5eda-be18-e6ce-43b4b7967f2c@HIDDEN> <b04da120-9b78-11ee-9b6a-00163eeb5320@HIDDEN> <08b5b5cf-6ede-4a58-b0b3-0abf3fce157d@HIDDEN> <a3848fd8-9b84-11ee-9b6a-00163eeb5320@HIDDEN> <6c4fc819-5fbb-45c3-a4cf-f6cc8528f299@HIDDEN> <00928078-830e-4d01-8627-91e348e71f7c@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <00928078-830e-4d01-8627-91e348e71f7c@HIDDEN> X-Pgp-Fingerprint: 02D5 315F F11F 1861 860E 1E02 F61A ACDC FA11 FFDE X-Debian-User: mstone X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) On Sun, Dec 17, 2023 at 12:34:11AM -0800, Paul Eggert wrote: >On 2023-12-16 13:46, Bernhard Voelker wrote: >>Whether the implementation is race-prone or not is an internal thing. > >I wasn't referring to the internal implementation. I was referring to >cp users. With the newer Coreutils (FreeBSD) behavior, you can >reliably write a script to do something if cp -n didn't copy the file >because the destination already existed. With the older Coreutils >behavior you cannot do that reliably; there will always be a race >condition. You can now reliably write a script using the new long option. Changing the behavior of the short option helped nobody.
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN Subject: bug#62572: cp --no-clobber behavior has changed Resent-From: Dominique Martinet <asmadeus@HIDDEN> Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-CC: bug-coreutils@HIDDEN Resent-Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2023 15:53:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: <handler.62572.B62572.170282832522527 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 62572 X-GNU-PR-Package: coreutils X-GNU-PR-Keywords: To: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN> Cc: 1058752@HIDDEN, =?UTF-8?Q?P=C3=A1draig?= Brady <P@HIDDEN>, 62572 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Michael Stone <mstone@HIDDEN> Received: via spool by 62572-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B62572.170282832522527 (code B ref 62572); Sun, 17 Dec 2023 15:53:03 +0000 Received: (at 62572) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Dec 2023 15:52:05 +0000 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58898 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1rEtQy-0005rC-7y for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 17 Dec 2023 10:52:05 -0500 Received: from ipv6.notk.org ([2001:41d0:1:7a93::1]:33428 helo=nautica.notk.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <asmadeus@HIDDEN>) id 1rEq6i-0005EK-Am for 62572 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 17 Dec 2023 07:18:57 -0500 Received: by nautica.notk.org (Postfix, from userid 108) id A5C98C01C; Sun, 17 Dec 2023 13:18:53 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=codewreck.org; s=2; t=1702815533; bh=wdfhWVgBaKqbd/1M/JhrkWN8/f6H+UvQ8DXnh82X9Q4=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=1n66Ea4PY61j0ndUO7xB/D4LlLUTQLzkHB5T1vTPdmkBOpiANGxcJkoUdnkhNJeZc wwUQ/5Cvz+bSoSklN7Xoi5FsVoQxtoPix3JQvK63Uap1IyC7W6KUUKS4SA3xA4ZCPY ic0abFJuUTlfeG8Do4cjzTdGtx2C2XgTbMeidz+O7NHMa3uk0obALCCFkh0T8exH00 REH6Lou+/bq+UVwhvCnGFPNX72P9JAF5O7lKA46Q6n2ykWWt47zDGtvFRQyNoVUA5K 3NHQx8Z6jidFoFk6UDThswqA85L1BDbBoZiAhwfjeQwn/JhQqQWjtl3fqdoFRnbbup 7tgUpZ5uszp/g== X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on nautica.notk.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.2 Received: from gaia (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nautica.notk.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A26D4C009; Sun, 17 Dec 2023 13:18:51 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=codewreck.org; s=2; t=1702815533; bh=wdfhWVgBaKqbd/1M/JhrkWN8/f6H+UvQ8DXnh82X9Q4=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=1n66Ea4PY61j0ndUO7xB/D4LlLUTQLzkHB5T1vTPdmkBOpiANGxcJkoUdnkhNJeZc wwUQ/5Cvz+bSoSklN7Xoi5FsVoQxtoPix3JQvK63Uap1IyC7W6KUUKS4SA3xA4ZCPY ic0abFJuUTlfeG8Do4cjzTdGtx2C2XgTbMeidz+O7NHMa3uk0obALCCFkh0T8exH00 REH6Lou+/bq+UVwhvCnGFPNX72P9JAF5O7lKA46Q6n2ykWWt47zDGtvFRQyNoVUA5K 3NHQx8Z6jidFoFk6UDThswqA85L1BDbBoZiAhwfjeQwn/JhQqQWjtl3fqdoFRnbbup 7tgUpZ5uszp/g== Received: from localhost (gaia [local]) by gaia (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPA id c67393bf; Sun, 17 Dec 2023 12:18:48 +0000 (UTC) Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2023 21:18:33 +0900 From: Dominique Martinet <asmadeus@HIDDEN> Message-ID: <ZX7nGUyAd-A6wmZf@HIDDEN> References: <CAHJvkbsWyJJnN3fi4tmdQa5CxOXg7O+BqZizzDLei1uNpy=bzw@HIDDEN> <baeec81a-9b60-11ee-9b6a-00163eeb5320@HIDDEN> <3225f182-5eda-be18-e6ce-43b4b7967f2c@HIDDEN> <b04da120-9b78-11ee-9b6a-00163eeb5320@HIDDEN> <08b5b5cf-6ede-4a58-b0b3-0abf3fce157d@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <08b5b5cf-6ede-4a58-b0b3-0abf3fce157d@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 17 Dec 2023 10:51:58 -0500 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Paul Eggert wrote on Fri, Dec 15, 2023 at 11:21:06AM -0800: > The cat is to some extent out of the bag. Unless one insists on (FreeBSD | > coreutils 9.2-9.4), or insist on coreutils 7.1-9.1, one should not rely on > cp -n failing or silently succeeding when the destination already exists. > This will remain true regardless of whether coreutils reverts to its 7.1-9.1 > behavior. This. Scripts that want to be portable already can't assume cp -n will do what they want, so at this point it doesn't really matter what coreutils does in the grand scheme of things. For distros like debian since even -testing hasn't seen coreutils 9.2, there's still value in reverting locally (with a warning that it's not reliable perhaps?), but in general coreutils 9.2 has been out for 9 months (2023 March 20), so many systems can already be considered affected; but it's a disservice to users to just try to hide the problem under the rug. (To give a data point, this did bite us as well, and I was annoyed enough that I went to look for the old bug report back in September, but at that point 9.3 had already been out and I had given up without reporting anything as nothing would change the fact that my scripts would need updating. For the gory details I also need compatibility with busybox cp (where -n silently ignores existing files), so --update=none is not an option, but I for this particular usage I settled for '-u' (--update=older, that busybox also support as short option only...), and I since hurried to forget about it) -- Dominique Martinet | Asmadeus
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