GNU bug report logs - #63300
29.0.90; Tramp keeps customizing variables on every connection

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong <wyuenho <at> gmail.com>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: 29.0.90; Tramp keeps customizing variables on every connection
Date: Fri, 05 May 2023 11:42:22 +0100

Whenever I install a package or do anything that turns on Tramp such as
sudoing, Tramp writes to my `custom-file-path` the variables
`connection-local-criteria-alist` and
`connection-local-profile-alist`. This is undesirable as it prevents the
customs files from being versioned effectively and shared across
multiple Emacs installations across machines. Furthermore, no package
should write to the customs file without the user's explicitly
approval. Defcustoms should be used for customizations, not caching.





In GNU Emacs 29.0.90 (build 1, aarch64-apple-darwin22.4.0, NS
 appkit-2299.50 Version 13.3.1 (a) (Build 22E772610a)) of 2023-05-04
 built on MobileCat.localdomain
Windowing system distributor 'Apple', version 10.3.2299
System Description:  macOS 13.3.1

Configured using:
 'configure --prefix=/opt/local --disable-silent-rules --without-dbus
 --without-gconf --without-libotf --without-m17n-flt --with-libgmp
 --with-gnutls --with-json --with-xml2 --with-modules --infodir
 /opt/local/share/info/emacs --with-sqlite3 --with-webp --with-ns
 --with-lcms2 --without-harfbuzz --without-imagemagick --without-xaw3d
 --with-tree-sitter --with-rsvg --with-xwidgets
 --with-native-compilation=aot 'CFLAGS=-pipe -Os -Wno-attributes
 -isysroot/Library/Developer/CommandLineTools/SDKs/MacOSX13.sdk -arch
 arm64' 'CPPFLAGS=-I/opt/local/include
 -isysroot/Library/Developer/CommandLineTools/SDKs/MacOSX13.sdk'
 'LDFLAGS=-L/opt/local/lib -Wl,-headerpad_max_install_names -Wl,-rpath
 /opt/local/lib/gcc12 -Wl,-no_pie
 -Wl,-syslibroot,/Library/Developer/CommandLineTools/SDKs/MacOSX13.sdk
 -arch arm64''

Configured features:
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NOTIFY KQUEUE NS PDUMPER PNG RSVG SQLITE3 THREADS TIFF
TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS TREE_SITTER WEBP XWIDGETS ZLIB

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Major mode: ELisp/d

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/Users/wyuenho/.emacs.d/elpa/transient-20230501.1034/transient hides /Applications/MacPorts/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/transient
/Users/wyuenho/.emacs.d/elpa/use-package-20230426.2324/use-package-jump hides /Applications/MacPorts/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/use-package/use-package-jump
/Users/wyuenho/.emacs.d/elpa/use-package-20230426.2324/use-package-ensure hides /Applications/MacPorts/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/use-package/use-package-ensure
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/Users/wyuenho/.emacs.d/elpa/use-package-20230426.2324/use-package-delight hides /Applications/MacPorts/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/use-package/use-package-delight
/Users/wyuenho/.emacs.d/elpa/use-package-20230426.2324/use-package-diminish hides /Applications/MacPorts/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/use-package/use-package-diminish
/Users/wyuenho/.emacs.d/elpa/use-package-20230426.2324/use-package hides /Applications/MacPorts/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/use-package/use-package
/Users/wyuenho/.emacs.d/elpa/use-package-20230426.2324/use-package-bind-key hides /Applications/MacPorts/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/use-package/use-package-bind-key
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Message #8 received at 63300 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
To: Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong <wyuenho <at> gmail.com>
Cc: 63300 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#63300: 29.0.90; Tramp keeps customizing variables on every
 connection
Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2023 10:59:58 +0200

Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong <wyuenho <at> gmail.com> writes:

Hi,

> Whenever I install a package or do anything that turns on Tramp such as
> sudoing, Tramp writes to my `custom-file-path` the variables
> `connection-local-criteria-alist` and
> `connection-local-profile-alist`. This is undesirable as it prevents the
> customs files from being versioned effectively and shared across
> multiple Emacs installations across machines. Furthermore, no package
> should write to the customs file without the user's explicitly
> approval. Defcustoms should be used for customizations, not caching.

This sounds like the same problem as bug#62106. This was fixed in the
emacs-29 branch as commit

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
commit 36ade0704e1829fd27970e8d478cf4b52deed517
Author: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
Date:   Mon Mar 13 18:02:36 2023 +0100

    Fix connection-local variables settings
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

Tramp itself calls customize-save-variable only in case you use a
multi-hop method, and you have set tramp-save-ad-hoc-proxies to a
non-nil value. This behavior has been implemented with commit

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
commit 53dc7bec8303584772e0922acb64aa6e1625b556
Author: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
Date:   Mon May 29 11:22:54 2023 +0200

    Fix regression when saving tramp-default-proxies-alist (Do not merge)
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

Could you, please, check?

Best regards, Michael.

Message #11 received at 63300 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Jimmy Wong <wyuenho <at> gmail.com>
To: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
Cc: 63300 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#63300: 29.0.90; Tramp keeps customizing variables on
 every connection
Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2023 12:30:52 +0100

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

I can still reproduce this bug on the latest emacs-29 commit. I do not have tramp-save-ad-hoc-proxies set.

I have since found out that simply M-x load-library tramp will have these connection-local-*-alist variables set without haven’t done anything.
On 4 Jun 2023 at 9:59 AM +0100, Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>, wrote:
> Jimmy Yuen Ho Wong <wyuenho <at> gmail.com> writes:
>
> Hi,
>
> > Whenever I install a package or do anything that turns on Tramp such as
> > sudoing, Tramp writes to my `custom-file-path` the variables
> > `connection-local-criteria-alist` and
> > `connection-local-profile-alist`. This is undesirable as it prevents the
> > customs files from being versioned effectively and shared across
> > multiple Emacs installations across machines. Furthermore, no package
> > should write to the customs file without the user's explicitly
> > approval. Defcustoms should be used for customizations, not caching.
>
> This sounds like the same problem as bug#62106. This was fixed in the
> emacs-29 branch as commit
>
> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
> commit 36ade0704e1829fd27970e8d478cf4b52deed517
> Author: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
> Date: Mon Mar 13 18:02:36 2023 +0100
>
> Fix connection-local variables settings
> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
>
> Tramp itself calls customize-save-variable only in case you use a
> multi-hop method, and you have set tramp-save-ad-hoc-proxies to a
> non-nil value. This behavior has been implemented with commit
>
> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
> commit 53dc7bec8303584772e0922acb64aa6e1625b556
> Author: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
> Date: Mon May 29 11:22:54 2023 +0200
>
> Fix regression when saving tramp-default-proxies-alist (Do not merge)
> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
>
> Could you, please, check?
>
> Best regards, Michael.

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Message #14 received at 63300 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
To: Jimmy Wong <wyuenho <at> gmail.com>
Cc: 63300 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#63300: 29.0.90; Tramp keeps customizing variables on every
 connection
Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2023 13:42:10 +0200

Jimmy Wong <wyuenho <at> gmail.com> writes:

Hi,

> I have since found out that simply M-x load-library tramp will have
> these connection-local-*-alist variables set without haven’t done
> anything.

Yes, that's intended. But nothing should have been written to your init
file with this scenario.

Best regards, Michael.

Message #17 received at 63300 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Jimmy Wong <wyuenho <at> gmail.com>
To: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
Cc: 63300 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#63300: 29.0.90; Tramp keeps customizing variables on
 every connection
Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2023 12:44:18 +0100

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Except when you customize a variable and click save for future sessions or apply and save, all the customized variables including the hacked connection local alist variables will be dumped to the customs file.
On 4 Jun 2023 at 12:42 PM +0100, Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>, wrote:
> Jimmy Wong <wyuenho <at> gmail.com> writes:
>
> Hi,
>
> > I have since found out that simply M-x load-library tramp will have
> > these connection-local-*-alist variables set without haven’t done
> > anything.
>
> Yes, that's intended. But nothing should have been written to your init
> file with this scenario.
>
> Best regards, Michael.

[Message part 2 (text/html, inline)]

Message #20 received at 63300 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
To: Jimmy Wong <wyuenho <at> gmail.com>
Cc: 63300 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#63300: 29.0.90; Tramp keeps customizing variables on every
 connection
Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2023 13:56:00 +0200

Jimmy Wong <wyuenho <at> gmail.com> writes:

Hi,

> Except when you customize a variable and click save for future
> sessions or apply and save, all the customized variables including the
> hacked connection local alist variables will be dumped to the customs
> file.

In the past, connection-local-*-alist were simple variables. Then they
have been converted to user options, see etc/NEWS:

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
*** Some connection-local variables are now user options.
The variables 'connection-local-profile-alist' and
'connection-local-criteria-alist' are now user options, in order to
make it more convenient to inspect and modify them.
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

And that's the reason behind.

I won't call the Tramp settings "hacked connection local alist variables".
They are useful defaults.

Best regards, Michael.

Message #23 received at 63300 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Jimmy Wong <wyuenho <at> gmail.com>
To: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
Cc: 63300 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#63300: 29.0.90; Tramp keeps customizing variables on
 every connection
Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2023 12:59:39 +0100

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

To put this more concretely, if some packages I’m requiring in my init file transitively requires tramp, then I go to the package menu and install a new package, my customs file will not only have saved the new package in package-selected-packages, but also these gigantic connection-local-*-alist variables. This is just too much surprises.

Again, I think if tramp needs to cache the values of these variables, they should be written to a file in user-emacs-directory, not hacked in a customizable variable.
On 4 Jun 2023 at 12:42 PM +0100, Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>, wrote:
> Jimmy Wong <wyuenho <at> gmail.com> writes:
>
> Hi,
>
> > I have since found out that simply M-x load-library tramp will have
> > these connection-local-*-alist variables set without haven’t done
> > anything.
>
> Yes, that's intended. But nothing should have been written to your init
> file with this scenario.
>
> Best regards, Michael.

[Message part 2 (text/html, inline)]

Message #26 received at 63300 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
To: Jimmy Wong <wyuenho <at> gmail.com>
Cc: 63300 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#63300: 29.0.90; Tramp keeps customizing variables on every
 connection
Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2023 14:05:50 +0200

Jimmy Wong <wyuenho <at> gmail.com> writes:

> Again, I think if tramp needs to cache the values of these variables,
> they should be written to a file in user-emacs-directory, not hacked
> in a customizable variable.

But these Tramp settings are connection-local, meaning they are
different for different remote hosts. Connection-local variables have
been invented for exact this purpose.

Now we can argue whether connection-local-*-alist shall be user options
or not. But exactly this has been requested, and that's why they have
been adapted. Your request is the opposite ...

Best regards, Michael.

Message #29 received at 63300 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Jimmy Wong <wyuenho <at> gmail.com>
To: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
Cc: 63300 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#63300: 29.0.90; Tramp keeps customizing variables on
 every connection
Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2023 13:16:40 +0100

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Well, yes, I consider this a poorly considered “feature”, or arguably a bug, for exactly the reason you said, they are local to connections and machines, and thus highly variable.

We can probably argue whether this is a bug in tramp or a bug in customize-save-variable tho (why on earth does the act of saving a single variable value saves all customized values if a custom file exists?)

On 4 Jun 2023 at 1:05 PM +0100, Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>, wrote:
> Jimmy Wong <wyuenho <at> gmail.com> writes:
>
> > Again, I think if tramp needs to cache the values of these variables,
> > they should be written to a file in user-emacs-directory, not hacked
> > in a customizable variable.
>
> But these Tramp settings are connection-local, meaning they are
> different for different remote hosts. Connection-local variables have
> been invented for exact this purpose.
>
> Now we can argue whether connection-local-*-alist shall be user options
> or not. But exactly this has been requested, and that's why they have
> been adapted. Your request is the opposite ...
>
> Best regards, Michael.

[Message part 2 (text/html, inline)]

Message #32 received at 63300 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
To: Jimmy Wong <wyuenho <at> gmail.com>
Cc: 63300 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#63300: 29.0.90; Tramp keeps customizing variables on every
 connection
Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2023 14:21:41 +0200

Jimmy Wong <wyuenho <at> gmail.com> writes:

Hi,

> Well, yes, I consider this a poorly considered “feature”, or arguably
> a bug, for exactly the reason you said, they are local to connections
> and machines, and thus highly variable.

Not really. They exist for the reason that a user can override the
default values offered by Tramp. This I would call a user option.

Tramp has a lot of further host specific data, which are all kept in
variables.

> We can probably argue whether this is a bug in tramp or a bug in
> customize-save-variable tho (why on earth does the act of saving a
> single variable value saves all customized values if a custom file
> exists?)

I agree with the latter.

Best regards, Michael.

Message #35 received at 63300 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Jimmy Wong <wyuenho <at> gmail.com>
To: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
Cc: 63300 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#63300: 29.0.90; Tramp keeps customizing variables on
 every connection
Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2023 13:22:35 +0100

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

I’ll file a separate bug. You can close this one. Thanks.
On 4 Jun 2023 at 1:21 PM +0100, Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>, wrote:
> Jimmy Wong <wyuenho <at> gmail.com> writes:
>
> Hi,
>
> > Well, yes, I consider this a poorly considered “feature”, or arguably
> > a bug, for exactly the reason you said, they are local to connections
> > and machines, and thus highly variable.
>
> Not really. They exist for the reason that a user can override the
> default values offered by Tramp. This I would call a user option.
>
> Tramp has a lot of further host specific data, which are all kept in
> variables.
>
> > We can probably argue whether this is a bug in tramp or a bug in
> > customize-save-variable tho (why on earth does the act of saving a
> > single variable value saves all customized values if a custom file
> > exists?)
>
> I agree with the latter.
>
> Best regards, Michael.

[Message part 2 (text/html, inline)]

Message #41 received at 63300 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Jimmy Wong <wyuenho <at> gmail.com>
To: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
Cc: 63300 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#63300: 29.0.90; Tramp keeps customizing variables on
 every connection
Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2023 17:55:42 +0100

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Actually, I take it back. customize-save-variable only saves variables that have the saved-value symbol property set. This property is normally set by customize when it is saved to the custom file. Something in Tramp is setting this property without saving the variable values to the custom file or going through customize. In fact, you can see it via M-x customize-option connection-local-criteria-alist. The value will be shown as SAVED.

In addition, setting `enable-connection-local-variables` to nil early in early-init.el has no effect, the variable is still set on load.

Both of this behavior violate what is documented in the docstring and https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/elisp/Standard-Properties.html.

If you must, enable-conneciton-local-variables should be respected, and if you must, set the theme-value property on these connection-local variables instead of saved-value so custom-save-all will not save them.

On 4 Jun 2023 at 1:23 PM +0100, Jimmy Wong <wyuenho <at> gmail.com>, wrote:
> I’ll file a separate bug. You can close this one. Thanks.
> On 4 Jun 2023 at 1:21 PM +0100, Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>, wrote:
> > Jimmy Wong <wyuenho <at> gmail.com> writes:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > > Well, yes, I consider this a poorly considered “feature”, or arguably
> > > a bug, for exactly the reason you said, they are local to connections
> > > and machines, and thus highly variable.
> >
> > Not really. They exist for the reason that a user can override the
> > default values offered by Tramp. This I would call a user option.
> >
> > Tramp has a lot of further host specific data, which are all kept in
> > variables.
> >
> > > We can probably argue whether this is a bug in tramp or a bug in
> > > customize-save-variable tho (why on earth does the act of saving a
> > > single variable value saves all customized values if a custom file
> > > exists?)
> >
> > I agree with the latter.
> >
> > Best regards, Michael.

[Message part 2 (text/html, inline)]

Message #44 received at 63300 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Jimmy Wong <wyuenho <at> gmail.com>
Cc: michael.albinus <at> gmx.de, 63300 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#63300: 29.0.90;
 Tramp keeps customizing variables on every connection
Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2023 20:24:06 +0300

> Cc: 63300 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2023 17:55:42 +0100
> From: Jimmy Wong <wyuenho <at> gmail.com>
> 
> Actually, I take it back. customize-save-variable only saves variables that have the saved-value
> symbol property set. This property is normally set by customize when it is saved to the custom file.
> Something in Tramp is setting this property without saving the variable values to the custom file or
> going through customize. In fact, you can see it via M-x customize-option
> connection-local-criteria-alist. The value will be shown as SAVED.

Maybe Tramp uses setopt or something to change the values of these
options?  Michael?

> Both of this behavior violate what is documented in the docstring and
> https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/elisp/Standard-Properties.html.
> 
> If you must, enable-conneciton-local-variables should be respected, and if you must, set the
> theme-value property on these connection-local variables instead of saved-value so custom-save-all
> will not save them.

I believe my proposal to make Tramp use variables that are initialized
from the user options should solve all of this.  Let's wait for
Michael to chime in on that.

Message #47 received at 63300 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: Jimmy Wong <wyuenho <at> gmail.com>, 63300 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#63300: 29.0.90; Tramp keeps customizing variables on every
 connection
Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2023 13:35:35 +0200

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:

Hi Eli,

>> Actually, I take it back. customize-save-variable only saves variables that have the saved-value
>> symbol property set. This property is normally set by customize when it is saved to the custom file.
>> Something in Tramp is setting this property without saving the variable values to the custom file or
>> going through customize. In fact, you can see it via M-x customize-option
>> connection-local-criteria-alist. The value will be shown as SAVED.
>
> Maybe Tramp uses setopt or something to change the values of these
> options?  Michael?

Tramp does nothing special, it just calls connection-local-set-profiles
and connection-local-set-profile-variables.

>> Both of this behavior violate what is documented in the docstring and
>> https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/elisp/Standard-Properties.html.
>>
>> If you must, enable-conneciton-local-variables should be respected, and if you must, set the
>> theme-value property on these connection-local variables instead of saved-value so custom-save-all
>> will not save them.
>
> I believe my proposal to make Tramp use variables that are initialized
> from the user options should solve all of this.  Let's wait for
> Michael to chime in on that.

By this, a user couldn't change the user options later on, after Tramp
is initilized. And it isn't only Tramp, other packages use
connection-local variables as well.

See my other message for a proposal.

Message #50 received at 63300 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
To: Jimmy Wong <wyuenho <at> gmail.com>
Cc: 63300 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#63300: 29.0.90; Tramp keeps customizing variables on every
 connection
Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2023 13:46:52 +0200

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

Jimmy Wong <wyuenho <at> gmail.com> writes:

Hi,

> Actually, I take it back. customize-save-variable only saves variables
> that have the saved-value symbol property set. This property is
> normally set by customize when it is saved to the custom file.
> Something in Tramp is setting this property without saving the
> variable values to the custom file or going through customize. In
> fact, you can see it via M-x customize-option
> connection-local-criteria-alist. The value will be shown as SAVED.

This property is set as well in custom-set-variables.

> In addition, setting `enable-connection-local-variables` to nil early
> in early-init.el has no effect, the variable is still set on load.

This is a different game. enable-connection-local-variables has no
effect on setting / saving connection-local-criteria-alist and
connection-local-profile-alist. e-c-l-v is used only in
hack-connection-local-variables in order to control, whether
connection-local variables shall be set as buffer-local variables. And
the documentation is clear about, that it isn't intended to be used on
user level, see (info "(elisp) Applying Connection Local Variables")

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
 -- Variable: enable-connection-local-variables
     If ‘nil’, connection-local variables are ignored.  This variable
     shall be changed temporarily only in special modes.
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

> Both of this behavior violate what is documented in the docstring and
> https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/elisp/Standard-Properties.html.

No.

> If you must, enable-conneciton-local-variables should be respected,
> and if you must, set the theme-value property on these
> connection-local variables instead of saved-value so custom-save-all
> will not save them.

No.

In connection-local-set-profiles and connection-local-set-profile-variables
it should be checked, whether the saved-value property is set. If not,
it shall be reset to nil, after custom-set-variables has been called.

The appended patch shall do the trick. Could you, please, test?

Best regards, Michael.

[Message part 2 (text/x-patch, attachment)]

Message #55 received at 63300 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
Cc: wyuenho <at> gmail.com, 63300 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#63300: 29.0.90; Tramp keeps customizing variables on every
 connection
Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2023 15:04:09 +0300

> From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
> Cc: Jimmy Wong <wyuenho <at> gmail.com>,  63300 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2023 13:35:35 +0200
> 
> > I believe my proposal to make Tramp use variables that are initialized
> > from the user options should solve all of this.  Let's wait for
> > Michael to chime in on that.
> 
> By this, a user couldn't change the user options later on, after Tramp
> is initilized. And it isn't only Tramp, other packages use
> connection-local variables as well.

There are many options that behave like that.  It's nothing new.

> See my other message for a proposal.

If it works, I don't mind, although the solution looks more
complicated (thus more risky during a pretest).

In general, Lisp programs should not modify values of user options,
that is only for the user.

Message #60 received at 63300-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus <at> gmx.de>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 63300-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org, wyuenho <at> gmail.com
Subject: Re: bug#63300: 29.0.90; Tramp keeps customizing variables on every
 connection
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2023 10:08:27 +0200

Version: 29.1

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:

Hi Eli,

>> See my other message for a proposal.
>
> If it works, I don't mind, although the solution looks more
> complicated (thus more risky during a pretest).

No further comments, so I've pushed the change to the emacs-29
branch. Closing the bug.

> In general, Lisp programs should not modify values of user options,
> that is only for the user.

I agree, but here we have the case, that two complex variables have been
transformed into user options in order to offer more convenient ways to
modify them. So we must handle both cases, modification by other
packages due to call of connection-local-set-profiles or
connection-local-set-profile-variables, and modification in the
customization buffer.

Best regards, Michael.

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