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From: Simon Tournier <zimon.toutoune@HIDDEN>
To: Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#63920: Allow for easily rewriting Emacs packages to use
emacs-next
References: <87pm696o2j.fsf@HIDDEN>
<86d39d60b16eeeaed7d149773864f322ab109a78.camel@HIDDEN>
<87h6n75dro.fsf@HIDDEN>
Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2023 11:14:07 +0200
In-Reply-To: <87h6n75dro.fsf@HIDDEN> (Maxim Cournoyer's message of "Tue, 03
Oct 2023 22:20:59 -0400")
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Content preview: Hi, On Tue, 03 Oct 2023 at 22:20, Maxim Cournoyer wrote: >
I agree adding multiple outputs would make things complicated and messy,
> and should thus not be the approach pursued. I think this should be >
feasible via package rewriting procedures, like we ha [...]
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Hi,
On Tue, 03 Oct 2023 at 22:20, Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN> wrote:
> I agree adding multiple outputs would make things complicated and messy,
> and should thus not be the approach pursued. I think this should be
> feasible via package rewriting procedures, like we had in the past for
> Python 2 with package-for-python2 or similar, which users can apply to
> their Emacs package collection in a manifest file.
For the record, it remembers these related or similar discussions:
https://issues.guix.gnu.org/issue/41732
https://issues.guix.gnu.org/issue/64586
Cheers,
simon
bug-guix@HIDDEN:bug#63920; Package guix.
Full text available.Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN>
to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org.
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[66.158.141.24]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id n15-20020a0ce48f000000b0065b10dbcd53sm967178qvl.120.2023.10.03.19.21.00 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 03 Oct 2023 19:21:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Maxim Cournoyer <maxim.cournoyer@HIDDEN> To: Liliana Marie Prikler <liliana.prikler@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#63920: Emacs Packages should have an output built with emacs-next(-minimal) References: <87pm696o2j.fsf@HIDDEN> <86d39d60b16eeeaed7d149773864f322ab109a78.camel@HIDDEN> Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2023 22:20:59 -0400 In-Reply-To: <86d39d60b16eeeaed7d149773864f322ab109a78.camel@HIDDEN> (Liliana Marie Prikler's message of "Tue, 06 Jun 2023 18:07:42 +0200") Message-ID: <87h6n75dro.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 63920 Cc: Mekeor Melire <mekeor@HIDDEN>, GNU Debbugs <control <at> debbugs.gnu.org>, 63920 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) retitle 63920 Allow for easily rewriting Emacs packages to use emacs-next quit Hello Mekeor, Liliana Marie Prikler <liliana.prikler@HIDDEN> writes: [...] >> (A workaround is to instead evaluate (load=20 >> "consult-register.el").) >>=20 >> I propose: >>=20 >> 1. Introduce a package emacs-next-minimal. >>=20 >> 2. For all Emacs-packages, create one output corresponding to each=20 >> Emacs major-version packaged in Guix proper. For example, the=20 >> output "emacs-next" would be built with emacs-next-minimal. >>=20 >> What do you think? I'd guess this should be hard to implement,=20 >> right? > This would unnecessarily complicate things over at emacs-build-system. > Now, emacs-next-minimal itself might be worthwhile (I don't see a > strong reason as to why, though), but since native compilation was > introduced to Guix, the recommendation was to compile packages ahead of > time rather than using the built-in JIT. To do so, add=C2=A0 > --with-input=3Demacs-minimal=3Demacs-next > or use a semantically equivalent options->transformation.=20=20 I agree adding multiple outputs would make things complicated and messy, and should thus not be the approach pursued. I think this should be feasible via package rewriting procedures, like we had in the past for Python 2 with package-for-python2 or similar, which users can apply to their Emacs package collection in a manifest file. A version of it for Emacs has been shared to guix-devel in the past, it could be reworked, it had some problems still. I'm renaming the issue to something that should serve as a reminder to someone to implement this. --=20 Thanks, Maxim
bug-guix@HIDDEN:bug#63920; Package guix.
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[85.127.52.93]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id t15-20020a1709066bcf00b0096f7500502csm5784319ejs.199.2023.06.06.09.07.43 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 06 Jun 2023 09:07:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <86d39d60b16eeeaed7d149773864f322ab109a78.camel@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: Emacs Packages should have an output built with emacs-next(-minimal) From: Liliana Marie Prikler <liliana.prikler@HIDDEN> To: Mekeor Melire <mekeor@HIDDEN>, 63920 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2023 18:07:42 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87pm696o2j.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <87pm696o2j.fsf@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable User-Agent: Evolution 3.46.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 63920 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi Mekeor, Am Dienstag, dem 06.06.2023 um 07:11 +0000 schrieb Mekeor Melire: > Hello dear Guix community, >=20 > if I understand correctly, all Emacs-packages that are packaged in=20 > Guix proper, are built with Emacs version 28 (or more precisely,=20 > emacs-minimal@28, emacs@28, emacs-no-x@28, emacs-no-x-toolkit@28=20 > or emacs-wide-int@28 (except emacs-jsdoc which is and needs to be=20 > built with emacs-next@29)). (You may grep the Guix repository for=20 > ":emacs" to find out by yourself.) Emacs packages other than emacs-minimal should be the exception rather than the norm. =20 > When using these Emacs-packages with emacs-next* (i.e. version 29=20 > or 30), this can lead to misbehavior because Emacs will still=20 > prefer the compiled .elc or .eln files which may depend on version=20 > 28 specifics. It should not prefer the .eln files, which get put into a unique directory per Emacs =E2=80=93 yes, that ought to include different versions= of the emacs package itself built with inputs that had their hashes changed. In any case, the version number itself (28 vs 29) is enough to turn .eln loading away. For .elc, the behaviour is indeed as you described, but that's rather due to the fact that bytecode ought to be forward-compatible. The packages you describe below thus invoke (IIUC) undefined behaviour. > My concrete experience is that, when using emacs-next-tree-sitter=20 > and emacs-consult packages, evaluating (require 'consult-register)=20 > fails because it has emacs-major-version-specific code:=20 > https://github.com/minad/consult/blob/3c0f87ebd20b25f03568fb9ef8fd36b5a2a= 6eb84/consult-register.el#L82 > =C2=A0 > (A workaround is to instead evaluate (load=20 > "consult-register.el").) >=20 > I propose: >=20 > 1. Introduce a package emacs-next-minimal. >=20 > 2. For all Emacs-packages, create one output corresponding to each=20 > Emacs major-version packaged in Guix proper. For example, the=20 > output "emacs-next" would be built with emacs-next-minimal. >=20 > What do you think? I'd guess this should be hard to implement,=20 > right? This would unnecessarily complicate things over at emacs-build-system. Now, emacs-next-minimal itself might be worthwhile (I don't see a strong reason as to why, though), but since native compilation was introduced to Guix, the recommendation was to compile packages ahead of time rather than using the built-in JIT. To do so, add=C2=A0 --with-input=3Demacs-minimal=3Demacs-next or use a semantically equivalent options->transformation. =20 As for a long-term solution to the problem, I do think we could make the situation easier by providing dedicated alternatives (e.g. "emacs- next-consult") or using parameterized packages (which is a larger TODO than emacs-build-system, however). As a member of the emacs-team, I do have to sadly report that we have yet to start the most serious work for making emacs-next the new emacs. Cheers
bug-guix@HIDDEN:bug#63920; Package guix.
Full text available.Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Jun 2023 07:35:39 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jun 06 03:35:39 2023 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50832 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1q6REB-0003kr-Cs for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Jun 2023 03:35:39 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]:58078) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <mekeor@HIDDEN>) id 1q6RE9-0003kj-5p for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 06 Jun 2023 03:35:38 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <mekeor@HIDDEN>) id 1q6RE7-0000sJ-On for bug-guix@HIDDEN; Tue, 06 Jun 2023 03:35:36 -0400 Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <mekeor@HIDDEN>) id 1q6RE5-0003VD-OH for bug-guix@HIDDEN; Tue, 06 Jun 2023 03:35:35 -0400 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 879FF240103 for <bug-guix@HIDDEN>; Tue, 6 Jun 2023 09:35:30 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.de; s=2017; t=1686036930; bh=zPNNxlx3YQeIZz8I07HqY1UtwY4HAoWyM64f6ziSAAE=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:From; b=TizAMTYjMgGys00lCARJ9/1HXnc/6VHzNDWf92/kGtfaogICZJrF7nttkEvcNsN3X owr+X5Fjt/PZ9by6/8W3T5VMaqMGdYV3r+TwXBnEe6euYD0fLHOaK2V29jTFVYFLOV fSbESkBApvamsLRXY/qwRvsZljShsTrieAa67YGvdPoZI/x10wMamP6r1xGGM4F4o3 oE9oBlUHrD7Nn9S0kSbKUySGUiIRC0CwOgOTG0wXhWjMLnjB7/XoVRGEDsrwv4GyZg dXVEtYjgk7/RGz4q+YWFiI1EhillXB40vmJYo8TBYmfXrWc7z636DIOMc+z7YqwA+d aYWLrxiCuxKAw== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4Qb2M56yWZz6twX; Tue, 6 Jun 2023 09:35:29 +0200 (CEST) From: Mekeor Melire <mekeor@HIDDEN> To: bug-guix@HIDDEN Subject: Emacs Packages should have an output built with emacs-next(-minimal) Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2023 07:11:28 +0000 Message-ID: <87pm696o2j.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.66; envelope-from=mekeor@HIDDEN; helo=mout02.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.3 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) Hello dear Guix community, if I understand correctly, all Emacs-packages that are packaged in Guix proper, are built with Emacs version 28 (or more precisely, emacs-minimal@28, emacs@28, emacs-no-x@28, emacs-no-x-toolkit@28 or emacs-wide-int@28 (except emacs-jsdoc which is and needs to be built with emacs-next@29)). (You may grep the Guix repository for ":emacs" to find out by yourself.) When using these Emacs-packages with emacs-next* (i.e. version 29 or 30), this can lead to misbehavior because Emacs will still prefer the compiled .elc or .eln files which may depend on version 28 specifics. My concrete experience is that, when using emacs-next-tree-sitter and emacs-consult packages, evaluating (require 'consult-register) fails because it has emacs-major-version-specific code: https://github.com/minad/consult/blob/3c0f87ebd20b25f03568fb9ef8fd36b5a2a6eb84/consult-register.el#L82 (A workaround is to instead evaluate (load "consult-register.el").) I propose: 1. Introduce a package emacs-next-minimal. 2. For all Emacs-packages, create one output corresponding to each Emacs major-version packaged in Guix proper. For example, the output "emacs-next" would be built with emacs-next-minimal. What do you think? I'd guess this should be hard to implement, right? Kindly Mekeor
Mekeor Melire <mekeor@HIDDEN>:bug-guix@HIDDEN.
Full text available.bug-guix@HIDDEN:bug#63920; Package guix.
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