GNU bug report logs - #66350
30.0.50; Description for (use-package emacs ...)

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Package: emacs; Severity: wishlist; Reported by: Arash Esbati <arash@HIDDEN>; Done: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN>; Maintainer for emacs is bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.

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Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2024 20:53:06 +0300
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From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
To: Arash Esbati <arash@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <m234o0ui0q.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Arash Esbati
 on Tue, 23 Jul 2024 19:37:09 +0200)
Subject: Re: bug#66350: 30.0.50; Description for (use-package emacs ...)
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> From: Arash Esbati <arash@HIDDEN>
> Cc: John Wiegley <johnw@HIDDEN>,  Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>,
>   66350-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2024 19:37:09 +0200
> 
> Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN> writes:
> 
> > I've installed the attached patch on emacs-30 (commit c7609464f70),
> > adding a new node describing this all.  Thanks for proposing a text, it
> > was a useful starting point.
> >
> > Please let me know if you spot any mistakes or anything that could be
> > improved in what I wrote.  Meanwhile, I'm closing this bug report.
> 
> Many thanks for picking this up; your patch LGTM.  One other change in
> my proposal was this around line 184:
> 
> -needed (a.k.a. ``autoloading'').  If you have installed a package from
> +needed (a.k.a.@: ``autoloading'').  If you have installed a package from
> 
> We can also ignore this if use-package manual isn't distributed as .pdf,
> I think.

Users should be able to generate a good-looking PDF from every manual
we ship.  So I think that part of the change should also be installed.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#66350; Package emacs. Full text available.

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From: Arash Esbati <arash@HIDDEN>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#66350: 30.0.50; Description for (use-package emacs ...)
In-Reply-To: <CADwFkmkFcvZHC0JuPd+0ffFhnFdtvsehVGbQ5yE_eoWQUSO=Mw@HIDDEN>
 (Stefan Kangas's message of "Tue, 23 Jul 2024 06:19:44 -0700")
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Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN> writes:

> I've installed the attached patch on emacs-30 (commit c7609464f70),
> adding a new node describing this all.  Thanks for proposing a text, it
> was a useful starting point.
>
> Please let me know if you spot any mistakes or anything that could be
> improved in what I wrote.  Meanwhile, I'm closing this bug report.

Many thanks for picking this up; your patch LGTM.  One other change in
my proposal was this around line 184:

-needed (a.k.a. ``autoloading'').  If you have installed a package from
+needed (a.k.a.@: ``autoloading'').  If you have installed a package from

We can also ignore this if use-package manual isn't distributed as .pdf,
I think.

Best, Arash




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#66350; Package emacs. Full text available.

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Subject: Re: bug#66350: 30.0.50; Description for (use-package emacs ...)
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Version: 30.1

Arash Esbati <arash@HIDDEN> writes:

> Thanks.  In order to close this report, I suggest to add the following
> to the manual:
>
> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
> diff --git a/doc/misc/use-package.texi b/doc/misc/use-package.texi
> index c2b6404b68b..e0a156eb373 100644
> --- a/doc/misc/use-package.texi
> +++ b/doc/misc/use-package.texi
> @@ -181,7 +181,7 @@ Getting Started
>  immediately.  In most cases, this is not necessary or desirable, as
>  that will slow down Emacs startup.  Instead, you should try to set
>  things up so that packages are only loaded when they are actually
> -needed (a.k.a. ``autoloading'').  If you have installed a package from
> +needed (a.k.a.@: ``autoloading'').  If you have installed a package from
>  @acronym{GNU} @acronym{ELPA} that provides it's own autoloads, it is often
>  enough to say:
>
> @@ -225,6 +225,21 @@ Getting Started
>  that you can use.  Where possible, it is a good idea to copy them, and
>  use that as a starting point.
>
> +You can also configure variables defined in Emacs C sources or preloaded
> +with Emacs with the no-op @samp{emacs} package:
> +
> +@lisp
> +@group
> +(use-package emacs
> +  :init
> +  (setq custom-file "~/.emacs.d/emacs-custom.el")
> +  (load custom-file)
> +  (setq frame-title-format "%b")
> +  :custom
> +  (use-short-answers t))
> +@end group
> +@end lisp
> +
>  That should be enough to get you started!
>
>  @c ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
>
> If the question is too trivial, we can close it as wontfix.

I've installed the attached patch on emacs-30 (commit c7609464f70),
adding a new node describing this all.  Thanks for proposing a text, it
was a useful starting point.

Please let me know if you spot any mistakes or anything that could be
improved in what I wrote.  Meanwhile, I'm closing this bug report.

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--000000000000ffe835061dea03d9--




Notification sent to Arash Esbati <arash@HIDDEN>:
bug acknowledged by developer. Full text available.
Reply sent to Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN>:
You have taken responsibility. Full text available.

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From: Arash Esbati <arash@HIDDEN>
To: John Wiegley <johnw@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#66350: 30.0.50; Description for (use-package emacs ...)
In-Reply-To: <m2fs2ov2qv.fsf@HIDDEN> (John Wiegley's message of "Thu, 
 05 Oct 2023 20:39:04 -0700")
References: <m2y1gicc09.fsf@HIDDEN> <83ttr54o6t.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <m2fs2ov2qv.fsf@HIDDEN>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2024 10:44:07 +0200
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John Wiegley <johnw@HIDDEN> writes:

>>>>>> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:
>
>>> (use-package emacs
>
>> Adding John, in case he has any thoughts about this.
>
> The =E2=80=98(use-package emacs =E2=80=A6)=E2=80=98 declaration has no sp=
ecial meaning. It just takes
> advantage of the fact that =E2=80=98(featurep 'emacs)=E2=80=98 is always =
true, so in a way
> it=E2=80=99s just for consistency=E2=80=99s sake, and doesn=E2=80=99t act=
ually do anything special.

Thanks.  In order to close this report, I suggest to add the following
to the manual:

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
diff --git a/doc/misc/use-package.texi b/doc/misc/use-package.texi
index c2b6404b68b..e0a156eb373 100644
--- a/doc/misc/use-package.texi
+++ b/doc/misc/use-package.texi
@@ -181,7 +181,7 @@ Getting Started
 immediately.  In most cases, this is not necessary or desirable, as
 that will slow down Emacs startup.  Instead, you should try to set
 things up so that packages are only loaded when they are actually
-needed (a.k.a. ``autoloading'').  If you have installed a package from
+needed (a.k.a.@: ``autoloading'').  If you have installed a package from
 @acronym{GNU} @acronym{ELPA} that provides it's own autoloads, it is often
 enough to say:

@@ -225,6 +225,21 @@ Getting Started
 that you can use.  Where possible, it is a good idea to copy them, and
 use that as a starting point.

+You can also configure variables defined in Emacs C sources or preloaded
+with Emacs with the no-op @samp{emacs} package:
+
+@lisp
+@group
+(use-package emacs
+  :init
+  (setq custom-file "~/.emacs.d/emacs-custom.el")
+  (load custom-file)
+  (setq frame-title-format "%b")
+  :custom
+  (use-short-answers t))
+@end group
+@end lisp
+
 That should be enough to get you started!

 @c -----------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

If the question is too trivial, we can close it as wontfix.

Best, Arash




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#66350; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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John Wiegley <johnw@HIDDEN> writes:

> The ‘(use-package emacs …)‘ declaration has no special meaning. It just takes
> advantage of the fact that ‘(featurep 'emacs)‘ is always true, so in a way
> it’s just for consistency’s sake, and doesn’t actually do anything special.

Thanks for your response.  I wonder which use-package keywords don't
make sense in that form?  The way I see it things like :defer, :init et
al. are useless since we're talking about Emacs with all preloaded
libraries, right?

Best, Arash





Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#66350; Package emacs. Full text available.

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From: John Wiegley <johnw@HIDDEN>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#66350: 30.0.50; Description for (use-package emacs ...)
In-Reply-To: <83ttr54o6t.fsf@HIDDEN> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 05 Oct
 2023 08:45:46 +0300")
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>>>>> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:

>> (use-package emacs

> Adding John, in case he has any thoughts about this.

The =E2=80=98(use-package emacs =E2=80=A6)=E2=80=98 declaration has no spec=
ial meaning. It just takes
advantage of the fact that =E2=80=98(featurep 'emacs)=E2=80=98 is always tr=
ue, so in a way
it=E2=80=99s just for consistency=E2=80=99s sake, and doesn=E2=80=99t actua=
lly do anything special.

--=20
John Wiegley                  GPG fingerprint =3D 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F
http://newartisans.com                          60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#66350; Package emacs. Full text available.
Severity set to 'wishlist' from 'normal' Request was from Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN> to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org. Full text available.

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Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2023 08:45:46 +0300
Message-Id: <83ttr54o6t.fsf@HIDDEN>
From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
To: Arash Esbati <arash@HIDDEN>, John Wiegley <johnw@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <m2y1gicc09.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Arash Esbati
 on Wed, 04 Oct 2023 23:29:26 +0200)
Subject: Re: bug#66350: 30.0.50; Description for (use-package emacs ...)
References: <m2y1gicc09.fsf@HIDDEN>
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> From: Arash Esbati <arash@HIDDEN>
> Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2023 23:29:26 +0200
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> use-package.texi contains this example[1]:
> 
>   @lisp
>   @group
>   ;; Completely hide visual-line-mode and change auto-fill-mode to " AF".
>   (use-package emacs
>     :delight
>     (auto-fill-function " AF")
>     (visual-line-mode))
>   @end group
>   @end lisp
> 
> The usage of (use-package emacs ...) isn't described anywhere in the
> file, though.  There was a discussion about it here[2], but I think it
> should be documented in the manual somehow.  I'm not familiar enough
> with use-package to make a suggestion, sorry.
> 
> Best, Arash
> 
> Footnotes:
> [1]  https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git/tree/doc/misc/use-package.texi#n1539
> 
> [2]  https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/mk9ehd/curious_whats_the_use_of_usepackage_emacs/

Adding John, in case he has any thoughts about this.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#66350; Package emacs. Full text available.

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Subject: 30.0.50; Description for (use-package emacs ...)
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Hi all,

use-package.texi contains this example[1]:

  @lisp
  @group
  ;; Completely hide visual-line-mode and change auto-fill-mode to " AF".
  (use-package emacs
    :delight
    (auto-fill-function " AF")
    (visual-line-mode))
  @end group
  @end lisp

The usage of (use-package emacs ...) isn't described anywhere in the
file, though.  There was a discussion about it here[2], but I think it
should be documented in the manual somehow.  I'm not familiar enough
with use-package to make a suggestion, sorry.

Best, Arash

Footnotes:
[1]  https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git/tree/doc/misc/use-package.texi#n1539

[2]  https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/mk9ehd/curious_whats_the_use_of_usepackage_emacs/






Acknowledgement sent to Arash Esbati <arash@HIDDEN>:
New bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN. Full text available.
Report forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#66350; Package emacs. Full text available.
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