GNU bug report logs - #66756
30.0.50; [PATCH] Improve discussion of 'let' in Elisp Introduction manual

Please note: This is a static page, with minimal formatting, updated once a day.
Click here to see this page with the latest information and nicer formatting.

Package: emacs; Reported by: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>; Keywords: patch; dated Thu, 26 Oct 2023 05:56:01 UTC; Maintainer for emacs is bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.

Message received at 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


Received: (at 66756) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Nov 2023 20:17:31 +0000
From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Nov 19 15:17:31 2023
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52155 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1r4oEV-0002ts-H4
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 19 Nov 2023 15:17:31 -0500
Received: from mail-pf1-x436.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::436]:43026)
 by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
 (envelope-from <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>) id 1r4oES-0002te-Vk
 for 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 19 Nov 2023 15:17:30 -0500
Received: by mail-pf1-x436.google.com with SMTP id
 d2e1a72fcca58-6cb55001124so641706b3a.0
 for <66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 19 Nov 2023 12:17:27 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
 d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1700425041; x=1701029841; darn=debbugs.gnu.org;
 h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to
 :content-language:subject:mime-version:date:message-id:from:to:cc
 :subject:date:message-id:reply-to;
 bh=qq7yOyNtXPSUKSbr/q4FzcTPnL0M/JjgFUficEwDJfg=;
 b=bUQGb+WJws4WBPNqmaV22fR3JRU5poeYZpK/V9RW3vlMuAl4aZ/CFg/t6VZtzgVvDt
 A9d8Vq30eXa6jeiee73jsMpqTqZGagoFqoqabxUfDCuxdVTpr9CBexexMoFqRF4lfOKh
 /uvFz9zpe5B8+W7y63bHnUE6HgSBiV9aYuWBdpTdq2WZjo6G27DGJi17kVEePbCNtqj1
 WU82iF95l3oPR4B0nrF5rYyMjINTyxJrvHROB7XCNV4mJCQX7hARm8G093LvkxybT99T
 Hbhtox0dqtLQuN/N7H/LMtkyU5Rc6FoA07wW7m+io+aFhAhE3ewia+LmzPmcJK3ND3pW
 xI7Q==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
 d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1700425041; x=1701029841;
 h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to
 :content-language:subject:mime-version:date:message-id
 :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to;
 bh=qq7yOyNtXPSUKSbr/q4FzcTPnL0M/JjgFUficEwDJfg=;
 b=cjRfA8MvacSM4omWyel7DC0gdM+MoTlNvK8mg4kpySv6HFqQnlaVL8qDccy5Aa7qOS
 zY0DUCxv7bIegbQ9uNSRhAbMcrlZPRq96QLQQcR051LOhdW4s1pr7fccNG1QPEZvTlQb
 bFhedb1ahBdjPINQgmLD6AOcwOiS7MtPTc9OzK4wYgQImHClIp8kUJGhFvGwmoGxGdw2
 f8d9oDFNQ5H2Rsd7AcjNXOsJZgDaFnXHf3Odw+qC3j0HDHd5K2IuXQt4HsLG90KBdjrJ
 IVYVHtWnVf0hKJOuxVqDWcArgzN/DHBn2uXS78XRcm2/vqnFBrsqAj1Nu5B/W7tgkks+
 owpQ==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yy/LtDs4WnDdqZ7jQJmEFBU5R/v1DcaMHvDl02iYmg+qUnx1M2Y
 06ZayZEv9Fv7KfT9lF9Geu4=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEfCgRBD7/yLKR+2rOHMJkMIq3sV6XdWKft47sA2fcm/IsuA84f8djhVLy0lyYtXJQLy7LhPA==
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6a21:999d:b0:187:4e8c:ac5c with SMTP id
 ve29-20020a056a21999d00b001874e8cac5cmr7308001pzb.1.1700425041423; 
 Sun, 19 Nov 2023 12:17:21 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [192.168.1.2] (cpe-76-168-148-233.socal.res.rr.com.
 [76.168.148.233]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id
 f2-20020a056a0022c200b0064fd4a6b306sm4651235pfj.76.2023.11.19.12.17.20
 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128);
 Sun, 19 Nov 2023 12:17:21 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <d4eac704-953c-3106-5509-6356c7721855@HIDDEN>
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2023 12:17:19 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Subject: Re: bug#66756: 30.0.50; [PATCH] Improve discussion of 'let' in Elisp
 Introduction manual
Content-Language: en-US
To: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN>
References: <a9812c1d-71e4-5f3f-83a4-a2923e649f3a@HIDDEN>
 <a5120e2f-b008-1b74-1ad9-3fe7d861b13c@HIDDEN>
 <E1qx8nq-0007DY-HV@HIDDEN>
 <3ade119d-0f0d-e60e-1bdc-9c7e02c1559c@HIDDEN>
 <E1r4YeF-0001fe-Ex@HIDDEN>
 <381836df-c16f-b3e7-d0c4-473290e165de@HIDDEN>
 <f44cca7f-13bb-a41a-c9ce-55f1b736c52b@HIDDEN> <878r6ut9wh.fsf@HIDDEN>
From: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <878r6ut9wh.fsf@HIDDEN>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/)
X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66756
Cc: eliz@HIDDEN, rms@HIDDEN, 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-)

On 11/19/2023 12:38 AM, Michael Albinus wrote:
> Would it be worth to emphasize, that a declaration of x changes this?
> That is, when a variable is declared, both lexical and dynamic binding
> behave identically.

Thanks, that's probably a good idea. We should mention this in the 
section that introduces 'defvar'. I'll work on adding that.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#66756; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


Received: (at 66756) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Nov 2023 08:39:08 +0000
From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Nov 19 03:39:08 2023
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49866 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1r4dKd-0003k9-Mr
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 19 Nov 2023 03:39:08 -0500
Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.18]:58717)
 by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
 (envelope-from <michael.albinus@HIDDEN>) id 1r4dKa-0003jc-0S
 for 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 19 Nov 2023 03:39:06 -0500
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.de; s=s31663417;
 t=1700383135; x=1700987935; i=michael.albinus@HIDDEN;
 bh=M1I9TVLt4uo0h6wZWL9eUyhuT+vbc07nid2TNIFsVjM=;
 h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:
 Date;
 b=B7Rw707J4eWlABIAHZBmnEt1aNhPfnzFgNgd52uFDj6IEtqyQFyq3s0IfPhmzIQN
 iZmP8NGOjzTNQjs2jmIh1Ce3SfQLsXyWguQUmT9zg9WCQRlOzIPYmoLwVESSqVQgJ
 jRmTmXyOcQGy5jRGH9qvDi7xJIo1wmZkpzTRUzjCE4QUs2T7CbW9u+vrv86wE7/OR
 eB4eWpBk5OQbJcKSTbdizJW8I0nOAID6i/B+n4TDLwkgJIhWOKeMOZm2jlcqxTmjV
 U9mMnrYnL+Gp7ZQdoi59ZJrThfA7O/JvD0bFF7dQu45mQuwBG+HNwn/M78Fl0S7aM
 UXtOLsKTJCt/gLnlGw==
X-UI-Sender-Class: 724b4f7f-cbec-4199-ad4e-598c01a50d3a
Received: from gandalf.gmx.de ([185.89.39.30]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx005
 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1N0XCw-1rIkOZ2zSe-00wRM1; Sun, 19
 Nov 2023 09:38:55 +0100
From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN>
To: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#66756: 30.0.50; [PATCH] Improve discussion of 'let' in
 Elisp Introduction manual
In-Reply-To: <f44cca7f-13bb-a41a-c9ce-55f1b736c52b@HIDDEN> (Jim Porter's
 message of "Sat, 18 Nov 2023 21:30:11 -0800")
References: <a9812c1d-71e4-5f3f-83a4-a2923e649f3a@HIDDEN>
 <a5120e2f-b008-1b74-1ad9-3fe7d861b13c@HIDDEN>
 <E1qx8nq-0007DY-HV@HIDDEN>
 <3ade119d-0f0d-e60e-1bdc-9c7e02c1559c@HIDDEN>
 <E1r4YeF-0001fe-Ex@HIDDEN>
 <381836df-c16f-b3e7-d0c4-473290e165de@HIDDEN>
 <f44cca7f-13bb-a41a-c9ce-55f1b736c52b@HIDDEN>
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2023 09:38:54 +0100
Message-ID: <878r6ut9wh.fsf@HIDDEN>
User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:uWEMuC+jODN6xmCCNm62YTFri9lGa87RFxls2iKwytFY4U2hPRl
 IL5eFS0OMB7pc8bto/9lN+cEIdwGa+dhSL0/x3v+b0O+STkYO1juHPuOykZ/25kRdQ9s0w1
 Xjpkwm63xFtY9MvNfZIzQ4fFzl7YgIr7zE6Ep2N4kXcaMTd+Bc3wMXCkljG8DFrRZixE5h3
 28/SRnCGeJ44SlOmbe9UQ==
X-Spam-Flag: NO
UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:gukPw5BsXJQ=;w6T5vzV4QOl3dIDYxYOn7n0WMXa
 vkOo57PXnUP+oZIipaEp2GqLWl5Jpd/VZiFM8dqQ92zhg80FQ8NMXJDOHMOVeDuYzLhCjrUgG
 jpsptA+w4LoajeVQNcZVAvrN8Z1rRPUG+Z7XrILc8+5LrkbJMm1oH7kNw6NkqUBZXA/zNqSox
 PMekpCrqm7tNgjDkB4CCj/8L8yaDwgLf+GAI77U29kxDTOKMQ6lrCyafbyZkvVwt9Rl7zNI/n
 /66yDUlog5q/5wpT5Gk2mcVZeeHJ2i7YhOGuwp6jAl352n9O/fLu+u5X7tM86zuMStXX5SFYi
 jXWNcIpG81m3WnDmhnf+GmmpkCZ9uhS90ieASoaV0pRHAHnQq/2EVG2v9ZxFBaSmsPsK9LeUh
 KuV352LIcOR4tovEc64SzpFdubF/AfwiwpDK8XnLkDHcet/pKluPpCC1q9fzMs9dKuVWxxSYY
 RBz+IqURAgX9xM1vYR5UIZLvIy5ubm3PMlI8dkOqYOtVxAAYc79iVFI09a3NbqRqhmGWLDK/l
 0ByT7K4SJlZrwm0lLOl1iXbEvTT0nhIog/bld6BxN+db2s1I6EpJfp/6Qs4Xm06wcAkGC9NXs
 ZwTWHHKc122SfwYJtXJNcxcVhT63LjaQrc5Qv2AAbDMdyT6j1UNdpDLMVeiUc5yHW2sHKGqOR
 SfFzPO7CZh4TIJhiydnVgqs1loCrzShTtKGJueMnllwBYfInuMUHZyWw1eNe6kuuyQDO08rAW
 zXyS+G7Zj2yFBbzSvRoZsoGhPWotfSmSZm65g0ceS0Sojo84Gepf9xnhyFqzq75xhd+fbnKxJ
 rtriE92IifcgS8kZBXGNRIfVouEdS9aM9Kxq8NBo12xbiw9QEQKhA+MiD6eRruDiO1zK+oWTu
 GNqfQc29YOeTR0dC3Vsu48LMSVErOXUrEVJ+yJSHNOtqBlb34YJxfli3kGrWIRuTR4j5522zI
 zlLrhg==
X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/)
X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66756
Cc: eliz@HIDDEN, rms@HIDDEN, 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-)

Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN> writes:

Hi Jim,

> +In some cases, both lexical and dynamic binding behave identically.
> +However, in other cases, they can change the meaning of your program.
> +For example, under lexical binding, if you call a function inside of a
> +@code{let} body, that function's body would be unable to ``see'' (or
> +modify) the value of a local variable from the @code{let} expression:
> +
> +@example
> +;;; -*- lexical-binding: t -*-
> +
> +(setq x 1)
> +
> +(defun getx ()
> +  x)
> +
> +(let ((x 2))
> +  (getx))
> +     @result{} 1
> +@end example
> +
> +@noindent
> +If we use dynamic binding instead, the behavior is different:
> +
> +@example
> +;;; -*- lexical-binding: nil -*-
> +
> +(setq x 1)
> +
> +(defun getx ()
> +  x)
> +
> +(let ((x 2))
> +  (getx))
> +     @result{} 2
> +@end example
> +
> +Now, the result of @samp{(getx)} is @samp{2}!  That's because under
> +dynamic binding, when @code{getx} looks for the value of @code{x}, it
> +sees the value we set in our @code{let} expression.  In other words,
> +the call to @code{getx} happens during the @emph{time} when our
> +@code{let} expression is active.  Under lexical binding, @code{getx}
> +doesn't see the value from our @code{let} expression.  That's because
> +it happens in a different @emph{place} than the @code{let} body.

Would it be worth to emphasize, that a declaration of x changes this?
That is, when a variable is declared, both lexical and dynamic binding
behave identically.

@example
;;; -*- lexical-binding: t -*-

(devfar x 1)

(defun getx ()
  x)

(let ((x 2))
  (getx))
     @result{} 2
@end example

Best regards, Michael.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#66756; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


Received: (at 66756) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Nov 2023 05:30:25 +0000
From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Nov 19 00:30:25 2023
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49757 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1r4aO0-0000yW-DG
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 19 Nov 2023 00:30:25 -0500
Received: from mail-oo1-xc33.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::c33]:61775)
 by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
 (envelope-from <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>) id 1r4aNv-0000yE-I5
 for 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 19 Nov 2023 00:30:22 -0500
Received: by mail-oo1-xc33.google.com with SMTP id
 006d021491bc7-5849fc56c62so2203215eaf.3
 for <66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 18 Nov 2023 21:30:18 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
 d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1700371812; x=1700976612; darn=debbugs.gnu.org;
 h=in-reply-to:references:cc:to:from:content-language:subject
 :mime-version:date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id
 :reply-to; bh=F47wi46MY3GHqFOKoyWSAI3I28LKqQu7Mk8RbHOiPbk=;
 b=KLUIdGO11Smy2YNZ8iNEfEy5/huHdmA3AljkBvfeceldwS7LCAhYb+WoVqU2NcQMiu
 UNCovsdfWefe/dT7p47rOCim5ks0CJuKEovqVS0x6/mYyJq0WMlb/k8pMt7vkmxCxuvl
 mFSBrJ+cZ2/PEf3wTxMl3Yszes4v9m/fqr/RZ62vQXpjgoh0RdhUme6M871z9wokdrdR
 oT67+JgGAgDV3iQ3X27KNVOvQYsyzxz+2atio0EoRAgf88nwokcf3uFfJLzHyxprt1hn
 3COxVjsyPl2g+54kYcgOn0JODwbSze0Po+74RsyqtNy1LiLJlOJEP/vaU596y13NZSeR
 Tr6A==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
 d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1700371812; x=1700976612;
 h=in-reply-to:references:cc:to:from:content-language:subject
 :mime-version:date:message-id:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject
 :date:message-id:reply-to;
 bh=F47wi46MY3GHqFOKoyWSAI3I28LKqQu7Mk8RbHOiPbk=;
 b=whqINlDtZ4c6PNptyhjbdwBT1t0vOihfz/18PLgLhpWBwcjKw4QIe5d0jh2nv0IvTY
 BtzXrc2K7+RkjTxwwCWylnyczPmUyD7KNbX7mbJilSmyUsN4MsmPgnm8KhXBbdjo75hG
 O+3gnT+SbOoqLmyMBTlsCl1onEZQMjmIg4qS0J7zEttRt8jmB0CEL9WGBo9Z8Lge1xm5
 a8nbKkYbe6daqgTcxMvKLeIYV+aYkG6v43XQVY/AdC+XWpZcqR1t57fl7WiZPTD4VEfF
 Qzn/VCG24ZwaMJNUT3on4BbKFF1XreM7N+qUGD6A/d9V4H3PPEcz0mFq+CXd5B0AzFvz
 /FkQ==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzTrzgSA87UIm4wbINFX2iqweeJGeZONTDAtcgNNkeOlPIivGoP
 PDBxfGfUjFUdJzKAzG5LLqtICORZC84=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFjUM3fx8roP9stpTXMN3VkqZNmTqgfvn5kEJlC4rk7DFWTZYJXjQ4jjRHSaSGBUhE2s2nXcw==
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6870:2f05:b0:1ea:2c8b:e18e with SMTP id
 qj5-20020a0568702f0500b001ea2c8be18emr5180574oab.8.1700371812595; 
 Sat, 18 Nov 2023 21:30:12 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [192.168.1.2] (cpe-76-168-148-233.socal.res.rr.com.
 [76.168.148.233]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id
 d14-20020a17090a564e00b002851466f471sm1215739pji.31.2023.11.18.21.30.11
 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128);
 Sat, 18 Nov 2023 21:30:12 -0800 (PST)
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------u39TyNpGDhlethcqzINtvb0H"
Message-ID: <f44cca7f-13bb-a41a-c9ce-55f1b736c52b@HIDDEN>
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2023 21:30:11 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Subject: Re: bug#66756: 30.0.50; [PATCH] Improve discussion of 'let' in Elisp
 Introduction manual
Content-Language: en-US
From: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>
To: rms@HIDDEN
References: <a9812c1d-71e4-5f3f-83a4-a2923e649f3a@HIDDEN>
 <a5120e2f-b008-1b74-1ad9-3fe7d861b13c@HIDDEN>
 <E1qx8nq-0007DY-HV@HIDDEN>
 <3ade119d-0f0d-e60e-1bdc-9c7e02c1559c@HIDDEN>
 <E1r4YeF-0001fe-Ex@HIDDEN>
 <381836df-c16f-b3e7-d0c4-473290e165de@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <381836df-c16f-b3e7-d0c4-473290e165de@HIDDEN>
X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/)
X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66756
Cc: eliz@HIDDEN, 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-)

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------u39TyNpGDhlethcqzINtvb0H
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

On 11/18/2023 9:25 PM, Jim Porter wrote:
> I believe that's the goal, yes. I've added a note that the maintainers 
> eventually plan on making lexical binding the default.

Oops, I forgot to finish rewording one sentence in my previous patch. 
Here's the fixed version.
--------------u39TyNpGDhlethcqzINtvb0H
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8;
 name="0001-Introduce-let-using-lexical-binding-in-the-Lisp-Intr.patch"
Content-Disposition: attachment;
 filename*0="0001-Introduce-let-using-lexical-binding-in-the-Lisp-Intr.pa";
 filename*1="tch"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
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==

--------------u39TyNpGDhlethcqzINtvb0H--




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#66756; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


Received: (at 66756) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Nov 2023 05:25:57 +0000
From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Nov 19 00:25:57 2023
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49752 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1r4aJg-0000pe-RM
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 19 Nov 2023 00:25:57 -0500
Received: from mail-oo1-xc2d.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::c2d]:57609)
 by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
 (envelope-from <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>) id 1r4aJa-0000pJ-7V
 for 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 19 Nov 2023 00:25:55 -0500
Received: by mail-oo1-xc2d.google.com with SMTP id
 006d021491bc7-58786e23d38so2100021eaf.3
 for <66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 18 Nov 2023 21:25:48 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
 d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1700371543; x=1700976343; darn=debbugs.gnu.org;
 h=in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to:content-language:subject
 :mime-version:date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id
 :reply-to; bh=DJHwToCv8+OIkkeHFm5DIUnjG/WHnnYnaRsXwmURpjE=;
 b=WFeBiMtUDGughp/nSv+qkHXS1gAGSEgMG7dqBvW3cm6BPx2UTFbiAnsdrmYaa4dMt8
 HwYabYcckMnTpSHn+KLlaB2LCa5rFinMViJR5WODjg9RCqizGJpkbH2lPfjIdKYNfZXt
 hiUx3mjhlwYCUYgxfmxB7aMw6vKJZdGemVp24l+CWRLfZf6jiVtSRO+F8xKyXC6MDiyd
 IzTL0FiWv93PthT9R+YPAQaHCpA4981ySxFc+b9KJ/BI3AGCIMGxiZ2ikQJYNFyIP9/N
 XvpuOUcW7DMTPaH65XQ+5MW1zF1rMtMtclpaJ2NDBH9cdP3RwpGy6BGUHd6pQPTkeQ83
 U46g==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
 d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1700371543; x=1700976343;
 h=in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to:content-language:subject
 :mime-version:date:message-id:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject
 :date:message-id:reply-to;
 bh=DJHwToCv8+OIkkeHFm5DIUnjG/WHnnYnaRsXwmURpjE=;
 b=ZlbhaRuS+08LMVwMtNkJvMpf+dDAGd8KwBhsjm68AtWLrW7aeZAS/C6FWNx5rgOmEL
 G14O2gaS8N96BAjO/1trztXisRuMfm0k4GfJ4TIphSXzJkuoV3HVxMISRj64IWil5efv
 aJnVSuHEUgWfQUI3DbRWFb55FK3uHTMMdkGMZ92n1ZSGnyRTZVl6GHseXk0EDkdl61Rk
 7mlKu6rh0802tTqRA+xX79aYXsrA5il30K3GY7pWiYDGKGB2TWsqtUGpunkRq6ZBI+Av
 uq/eon30tiSF1ddSsXlTef6X+eNgdu97ATob43O4eaGkpOEWESKnVIfx5ZkMEk4PWfeH
 m4ww==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yw7lh4BWzcVisSml83VLvKcQS9QiFna4RAGdlwYGP3TK0Ngm6EP
 OYpJrj0Gh9ZTD6LueOta328=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEHUEXPFbyqQXbvQ+YFObbwCR0F0MGh67A70C7qDih21MCTOKnM88tkac3up8p+on6l+FnBFg==
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6358:709:b0:168:e7ab:6877 with SMTP id
 e9-20020a056358070900b00168e7ab6877mr4540099rwj.6.1700371543049; 
 Sat, 18 Nov 2023 21:25:43 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [192.168.1.2] (cpe-76-168-148-233.socal.res.rr.com.
 [76.168.148.233]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id
 p18-20020a63fe12000000b0058988954686sm3783753pgh.90.2023.11.18.21.25.42
 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128);
 Sat, 18 Nov 2023 21:25:42 -0800 (PST)
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------XQdsTGiwCBg1kuAdtZ080FQu"
Message-ID: <381836df-c16f-b3e7-d0c4-473290e165de@HIDDEN>
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2023 21:25:42 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Subject: Re: bug#66756: 30.0.50; [PATCH] Improve discussion of 'let' in Elisp
 Introduction manual
Content-Language: en-US
To: rms@HIDDEN
References: <a9812c1d-71e4-5f3f-83a4-a2923e649f3a@HIDDEN>
 <a5120e2f-b008-1b74-1ad9-3fe7d861b13c@HIDDEN>
 <E1qx8nq-0007DY-HV@HIDDEN>
 <3ade119d-0f0d-e60e-1bdc-9c7e02c1559c@HIDDEN>
 <E1r4YeF-0001fe-Ex@HIDDEN>
From: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <E1r4YeF-0001fe-Ex@HIDDEN>
X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/)
X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66756
Cc: eliz@HIDDEN, 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-)

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------XQdsTGiwCBg1kuAdtZ080FQu
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

On 11/18/2023 7:39 PM, Richard Stallman wrote:
>    > +parts a ``scope'').  For historical reasons, Emacs Lisp uses a form of
>    > +variable binding called ``dynamic binding'' by default.  However, in
>    > +this manual, we discuss the preferred form of binding, called
>    > +``lexical binding'' (if you have programmed in other languages before,
>    > +you're likely already familiar with how lexical binding behaves).  In
>    > +order to use lexical binding in a program, you should add this to the
>    > +first line of your Emacs Lisp file:
>    > +
>    > +@example
>    > +;;; -*- lexical-binding: t -*-
>    > +@end example
>    > +
>    > +For more information about this, @pxref{Selecting Lisp Dialect, , ,
>    > +elisp, The Emacs Lisp Reference Manual}.
> 
> Do we want to change the default some day to lexical binding:?  If so,
> we should say so somewhere in this manual -- perhaps here, perhaps
> elsewhere,

I believe that's the goal, yes. I've added a note that the maintainers 
eventually plan on making lexical binding the default.

>    > +If we instead change @code{lexical-binding} to have a value of
>    > +@code{nil}, we will get a different result here.
> 
> "Get a different result" is vague -- it would be clearer if it said
> concretely what will happen.
> 
> I suggest you show the dynamci situation in the same way you show the lexical
> situation.  That will help people compare the two.

Done. I've also expanded the prose explanation at the end in order to 
re-emphasize the differences between the two.
--------------XQdsTGiwCBg1kuAdtZ080FQu
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8;
 name="0001-Introduce-let-using-lexical-binding-in-the-Lisp-Intr.patch"
Content-Disposition: attachment;
 filename*0="0001-Introduce-let-using-lexical-binding-in-the-Lisp-Intr.pa";
 filename*1="tch"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
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--------------XQdsTGiwCBg1kuAdtZ080FQu--




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#66756; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


Received: (at 66756) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Nov 2023 03:39:16 +0000
From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Nov 18 22:39:16 2023
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49709 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1r4YeS-0006Nv-96
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 18 Nov 2023 22:39:16 -0500
Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:45906)
 by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
 (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1r4YeP-0006Ng-Np
 for 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 18 Nov 2023 22:39:14 -0500
Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e])
 by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256)
 (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>)
 id 1r4YeJ-00009g-4M; Sat, 18 Nov 2023 22:39:07 -0500
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org;
 s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:
 mime-version; bh=PuH/zNKQuONtt6o4IiolQrlIG2AsQSznZmnIALvR3Co=; b=oWiVr6lnUWkx
 raZLwbePaeJ4aSA4c+JxGj0sYuW5Lzd9SDIGwGikpNp3RDyLhNj2ihPBncMkOROCuM50MypS3CfsJ
 ExmmZG1whWkUKSD693UQFnf+5ZrK9YoKfJqYi+bab/DbyNWVcYLEwVLL3u2rJO8dtZSo7fjVO5EDx
 HlH165bslJlyqx3qEh8vh9DFi4hD7pg78l6yCJlRn6htCDpLk5o6/2BDNmY+RAjRMx3cCTaLXkWL8
 Vt4hx6hO4DNEWNDT8NSbMl71oC0WUP1n020UVkSNrXyQQokOa1gPcllHaS2N0JfGcY+pTZ++vDbzy
 +hi2LLcQD3XInGp8fcc97A==;
Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1)
 (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>)
 id 1r4YeF-0001fe-Ex; Sat, 18 Nov 2023 22:39:04 -0500
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8
From: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN>
To: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <3ade119d-0f0d-e60e-1bdc-9c7e02c1559c@HIDDEN> (message from
 Jim Porter on Fri, 17 Nov 2023 18:09:20 -0800)
Subject: Re: bug#66756: 30.0.50; [PATCH] Improve discussion of 'let' in Elisp
 Introduction manual
References: <a9812c1d-71e4-5f3f-83a4-a2923e649f3a@HIDDEN>
 <a5120e2f-b008-1b74-1ad9-3fe7d861b13c@HIDDEN>
 <E1qx8nq-0007DY-HV@HIDDEN>
 <3ade119d-0f0d-e60e-1bdc-9c7e02c1559c@HIDDEN>
Message-Id: <E1r4YeF-0001fe-Ex@HIDDEN>
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2023 22:39:03 -0500
X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--)
X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66756
Cc: eliz@HIDDEN, 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Reply-To: rms@HIDDEN
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---)

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

I think your changes are good.

  > +parts a ``scope'').  For historical reasons, Emacs Lisp uses a form of
  > +variable binding called ``dynamic binding'' by default.  However, in
  > +this manual, we discuss the preferred form of binding, called
  > +``lexical binding'' (if you have programmed in other languages before,
  > +you're likely already familiar with how lexical binding behaves).  In
  > +order to use lexical binding in a program, you should add this to the
  > +first line of your Emacs Lisp file:
  > +
  > +@example
  > +;;; -*- lexical-binding: t -*-
  > +@end example
  > +
  > +For more information about this, @pxref{Selecting Lisp Dialect, , ,
  > +elisp, The Emacs Lisp Reference Manual}.

Do we want to change the default some day to lexical binding:?  If so,
we should say so somewhere in this manual -- perhaps here, perhaps
elsewhere,

  > +If we instead change @code{lexical-binding} to have a value of
  > +@code{nil}, we will get a different result here.

"Get a different result" is vague -- it would be clearer if it said
concretely what will happen.

I suggest you show the dynamci situation in the same way you show the lexical
situation.  That will help people compare the two.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)






Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#66756; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


Received: (at 66756) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Nov 2023 02:09:34 +0000
From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Nov 17 21:09:34 2023
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47357 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1r4Am5-0004aW-L7
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 17 Nov 2023 21:09:34 -0500
Received: from mail-pj1-x102a.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::102a]:45229)
 by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
 (envelope-from <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>) id 1r4Am0-0004aF-OX
 for 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 17 Nov 2023 21:09:32 -0500
Received: by mail-pj1-x102a.google.com with SMTP id
 98e67ed59e1d1-280165bba25so2051919a91.2
 for <66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 17 Nov 2023 18:09:28 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
 d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1700273362; x=1700878162; darn=debbugs.gnu.org;
 h=in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to:content-language:subject
 :mime-version:date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id
 :reply-to; bh=+e6TBqxAZ9QtGaZOIhe6g9/4ebXG46sXCkGwUelZtlk=;
 b=AgsxcYImy8cFNtqy9i5yiZt112WjZNEHAbpNkti+D42s/VuVK7+5POOPFD+t9LJJgV
 FR/+AHPD012umZmNWzlPelNp+WMiysPYozSajYpHDXGyzGrR5URKyooP+5a4FqAiMheM
 w8pdr8EpppUncsobssuNjjD7YbV66iio9qJcBUETl4EG+RBKwdZ50T77Q8Xtr+VkazR9
 EHMxRn9nQ5zUR/ong2LtbMYt3sSJN1jGDpFsOnZIfFOEsAvQwAEnUOpz9+MNwF/8Sv8X
 o5DdIttYOpG3M1SrfJI/P4yPgC91Cc/o07b58qjD9I2agGj5BQv0j0Jr7CZrHOvgRn8o
 Ru7w==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
 d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1700273362; x=1700878162;
 h=in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to:content-language:subject
 :mime-version:date:message-id:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject
 :date:message-id:reply-to;
 bh=+e6TBqxAZ9QtGaZOIhe6g9/4ebXG46sXCkGwUelZtlk=;
 b=WxpV+KtBsSXpig4ccCXufVZRfR7QYBDbP7CXxaGJ7tPcqv7tppF3qSlgQ/WQvE7ZLn
 bkpR/ORFuI+OSuVNj8xmbgoAAHXax0ACZUqF0iLEuTwbPP0SNWtvpPX3+AI5pl9vhG0V
 x6pS/Kn35oz1H6oFXDQwvvj+tZv/AMXtNoKGdp6L3cwkXA8PuT8fs1HLOphogWuDiNi9
 uFaDGj2WNk1Lz+MXK3eTVbf+II+SNdq0LMVuP4WAmG6mO/uEBdCdY9m15UqwIgWiM7F4
 smOeLSvpCSGio2WWDlZ/2NmstU82w4OyowUV5gCMijZbYiIn48e8B+F+hCS/c2fkDWm+
 kTCQ==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwZFM+gTvgkgt08a84rC/uupprMN41vzW9aNzupATBOYk6Cs3/F
 pilCyRMdJ1NC0v7dSdAXveY=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEb7p5+2b/+ynSQ7aORh88fSsTza0d6lgtDb/ArSQgpFTUr6YFxvnxUxU588H7cQz0AFdTlBA==
X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:142:b0:280:699:c5c with SMTP id
 z2-20020a17090a014200b0028006990c5cmr1401804pje.21.1700273362057; 
 Fri, 17 Nov 2023 18:09:22 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [192.168.1.2] (cpe-76-168-148-233.socal.res.rr.com.
 [76.168.148.233]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id
 23-20020a17090a19d700b002805740d668sm4214736pjj.4.2023.11.17.18.09.20
 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128);
 Fri, 17 Nov 2023 18:09:21 -0800 (PST)
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------c0q4k8B0P0JpPPo3JFZoCO0V"
Message-ID: <3ade119d-0f0d-e60e-1bdc-9c7e02c1559c@HIDDEN>
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2023 18:09:20 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Subject: Re: bug#66756: 30.0.50; [PATCH] Improve discussion of 'let' in Elisp
 Introduction manual
Content-Language: en-US
To: rms@HIDDEN
References: <a9812c1d-71e4-5f3f-83a4-a2923e649f3a@HIDDEN>
 <a5120e2f-b008-1b74-1ad9-3fe7d861b13c@HIDDEN>
 <E1qx8nq-0007DY-HV@HIDDEN>
From: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <E1qx8nq-0007DY-HV@HIDDEN>
X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/)
X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66756
Cc: eliz@HIDDEN, 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-)

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------c0q4k8B0P0JpPPo3JFZoCO0V
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

On 10/29/2023 9:38 AM, Richard Stallman wrote:
> So perhaps it is possible for the first few sections to use examples
> which work the same in lexical mode and dynamic mode, THEN show an
> example for which it does make a difference as a way to explain the
> two modes.

It took a bit longer for me to get back to this than I had hoped, but 
here's an updated patch. I've added a new subsection to the end that 
describes lexical vs dynamic binding, and tried to keep the "let 
Prevents Confusion" section as similar in spirit as I could to the 
original, while still updating the parts that change under lexical binding.
--------------c0q4k8B0P0JpPPo3JFZoCO0V
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8;
 name="0001-Introduce-let-using-lexical-binding-in-the-Lisp-Intr.patch"
Content-Disposition: attachment;
 filename*0="0001-Introduce-let-using-lexical-binding-in-the-Lisp-Intr.pa";
 filename*1="tch"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
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--------------c0q4k8B0P0JpPPo3JFZoCO0V--




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#66756; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


Received: (at 66756) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Nov 2023 02:30:15 +0000
From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Nov 05 21:30:15 2023
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38470 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1qzpNW-0006FT-SB
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 05 Nov 2023 21:30:15 -0500
Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:43846)
 by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
 (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1qzpNV-0006F8-8V
 for 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 05 Nov 2023 21:30:13 -0500
Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e])
 by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256)
 (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>)
 id 1qzpMo-0007lS-Si; Sun, 05 Nov 2023 21:29:30 -0500
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org;
 s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:
 mime-version; bh=QGmjkkHOijNZoYFM3F16Qowkk2bO45U0D797pXddglY=; b=qwdwDsJwfNCg
 7bRgnfCSbZb0oApuoQ9IVTb6wnEUQrIJUn5/fbNhIAC/IroQHne3L4nIKegCnu0ttFT9o/T4APM/U
 iPtS2FjKQirhbTcOrg9AEUd9an1aZ1KVn0KcRZ/ZCfmbmXrs4fZMjqCyusdO4DMtmvoE57dZSj5Ub
 RNHJ2ynzuOypxvdNmxPSFBrzb/65b16q5tptV/YFrvzTpdTHijJl4k57x14LnzZBUf1BW2TC7/+2B
 1x+3s3Iy/wVFH4Y7TewK2c46N2sILNWAHrv8eFc06LG2/SGXMQM8E6fAt67BZfX30CcCjno7pEgfx
 cZdk70YjF3xi/pKTXfw7nw==;
Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1)
 (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>)
 id 1qzpMo-0002Ai-Ao; Sun, 05 Nov 2023 21:29:30 -0500
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8
From: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN>
To: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <a9812c1d-71e4-5f3f-83a4-a2923e649f3a@HIDDEN> (message from
 Jim Porter on Wed, 25 Oct 2023 22:54:25 -0700)
Subject: Re: bug#66756: 30.0.50;
 [PATCH] Improve discussion of 'let' in Elisp Introduction manual
References: <a9812c1d-71e4-5f3f-83a4-a2923e649f3a@HIDDEN>
Message-Id: <E1qzpMo-0002Ai-Ao@HIDDEN>
Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2023 21:29:30 -0500
X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--)
X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66756
Cc: 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Reply-To: rms@HIDDEN
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---)

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > +The @code{let} special form provides a way to confine your variables
  > +to a particular section of your code (in computer science jargon, a
  > +``scope'').  @code{let} creates a name for a @dfn{local variable} that
  > +overshadows any use of the same name outside the @code{let} expression
  > +(we call this ``binding'' the variable).  This prevents any accidental
  > +usage of these variables outside of the @code{let} expression.

This is one of several reasons to use `let'.

Others are

* To compute a value once and use it more than once.

* To create a loop index variable.

* For special variables, to bind them si as to control the behavior
of other code.

Should all of them be mentioned in this node?  I am not sure;
that is a pedagogical question.  But this node shouldn't assert
that one reason is the only reason.


-- 
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)






Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#66756; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


Received: (at 66756) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Nov 2023 02:30:15 +0000
From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Nov 05 21:30:14 2023
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38468 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1qzpNW-0006FR-G1
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 05 Nov 2023 21:30:14 -0500
Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:43840)
 by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
 (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1qzpNU-0006F7-Lh
 for 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 05 Nov 2023 21:30:13 -0500
Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e])
 by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256)
 (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>)
 id 1qzpMo-0007lL-3x; Sun, 05 Nov 2023 21:29:30 -0500
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org;
 s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:
 mime-version; bh=58Zi5U+KcoqOtzT3/iLnWCJ9kilXVHppT5YkMs3oAsk=; b=Wy/Yw5JE4D0J
 Bu9qAIfsAGtcsSMDtWbeSV6jVHM9N7FNqGuNL3sH3Uc5l8ZZVRpPXNWZ01oYt+kHrSXad2qeMEIfw
 taJJk1nN1/BNFiw+ZIZgO40eYZp9gNTsfu/pEQQgS+JvYEVsuNRLeH9VZuduZvuo69L+r96lLfkKz
 kcRFJ7HcRe7o075vuqN42jFuehqgRR2vwDzAB9MtfxHKi0zHj6I5JKDz90GqXPGdEkvYGjGloA2gl
 0zG0rkIV7zn6Y0+JObro+zZh2zDzgI81YVicLa5cdwYGkZaFNrurvBONfzVptLEpz1FSivBET2yhz
 0gI8Z3AbXZNP2hvGqi1k2Q==;
Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1)
 (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>)
 id 1qzpMn-00023S-L9; Sun, 05 Nov 2023 21:29:29 -0500
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8
From: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN>
To: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <a9812c1d-71e4-5f3f-83a4-a2923e649f3a@HIDDEN> (message from
 Jim Porter on Wed, 25 Oct 2023 22:54:25 -0700)
Subject: Re: bug#66756: 30.0.50;
 [PATCH] Improve discussion of 'let' in Elisp Introduction manual
References: <a9812c1d-71e4-5f3f-83a4-a2923e649f3a@HIDDEN>
Message-Id: <E1qzpMn-00023S-L9@HIDDEN>
Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2023 21:29:29 -0500
X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--)
X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66756
Cc: 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Reply-To: rms@HIDDEN
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---)

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

This change is overall a step forward.  Thanks for working on it.

A few specific parts of the new text could use a little cleaning up;
some of those parts are in the current version also.

    +``scope'').  @code{let} creates a name for a @dfn{local variable} that
    +overshadows any use of the same name outside the @code{let} expression
    +(we call this ``binding'' the variable).

The word "overshadows" seems stramge here.  The usual term is "shadows",
and I don't see that "overshadows" adds any clarity.

  >   For historical reasons, Emacs Lisp uses a form of
  > +variable binding called ``dynamic binding''.

This should say "by default", because it isn't always so.  For
instance, if you specify lexical binding, then Emacs Lisp does not use
dynamic binding, except for variables marked special.

  > +lexical binding, you should add something like this to the first line

Delete "something like".



-- 
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)






Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#66756; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


Received: (at 66756) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Nov 2023 16:45:32 +0000
From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Nov 04 12:45:32 2023
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35669 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1qzJm7-000830-W7
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 04 Nov 2023 12:45:32 -0400
Received: from mail-pl1-x630.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::630]:47483)
 by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
 (envelope-from <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>) id 1qzJm6-00082l-0T
 for 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 04 Nov 2023 12:45:30 -0400
Received: by mail-pl1-x630.google.com with SMTP id
 d9443c01a7336-1c434c33ec0so22996955ad.3
 for <66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 04 Nov 2023 09:44:53 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
 d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1699116288; x=1699721088; darn=debbugs.gnu.org;
 h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to
 :content-language:subject:mime-version:date:message-id:from:to:cc
 :subject:date:message-id:reply-to;
 bh=u+2sdyUuGVSFZtjAlrohp8yA5Iay/zWlfuUEb/9GSBk=;
 b=aHQL03UTIijyCRaVejsCnEXHsMDW9PhIwpX+8PJHN0CnEkHbVbJWFUBvOSmZAQbVSP
 BacbI1yDGQiCpowGyzS51s66M0/KPTL3cuoy9z1LzmugrdhDuzp2ABsZtL70cy7xFsED
 loKcusyRfajkdowr1/gbRU2nF0I8f0VVOHTlkSbMMGivTm9se1sAh31iVVrq42youp7y
 SkGOFEa+SeLXZA9O6B8pIzONzoi+Nl0Af4L0ebfz6wZ3JzkEX1EqDepvtlbzIq8dHX4F
 DQmgcOL6ccMl1XSFE7KLumxdE3ySGM0oPnbHI7+wB2DWgAwetaZRdH4Vq/1YY3LB5KO9
 qORA==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
 d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1699116288; x=1699721088;
 h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to
 :content-language:subject:mime-version:date:message-id
 :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to;
 bh=u+2sdyUuGVSFZtjAlrohp8yA5Iay/zWlfuUEb/9GSBk=;
 b=ApFmTpySkhmP5n7wdAaCsK3FJm3gGEnmv6wXMLJGGsaoHHxW2iXmluzi9WwWSZ580t
 oPwM+IoRpnUWaMDNy7+ZJOU0xDwWr0IQCox2hApHy4vKIdUQOXg0lTBqtvgIxD3fd6Qd
 z2IQidsSi8PeyJpfSwZmepFYatQ+6ge9enBFYPbsMcmdGds2Rl15AbI4xo+anaCsJPcI
 FLlZatS5cOdCbHqr5FZzOT5kv4MOCARX0AeYYZCaF90RCHwuVHfjF3kjC7T3Y8iqMEGf
 SA8TYs+gKWQJxSJ6OQNeRyi/d3r4KIUWY6DecRsJf2wmrHYP3WyIEtS7y+1eaFRrpq3C
 v2fw==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzxX22ajqke95NieWqqU8Ns+FoOYePJ/3RTMWWlfT7LwJC/qzB7
 yevDLKSbi8iRl+COPRFqw7o=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFpV05QtYAkSsbPfIi5mP6l5wxK+VFlX/xP/NCC6kZ8FP3Ai4W5agHdJFUdQv52ZNmNhLjj7g==
X-Received: by 2002:a17:903:22ca:b0:1c7:8446:d65c with SMTP id
 y10-20020a17090322ca00b001c78446d65cmr24369614plg.43.1699116287634; 
 Sat, 04 Nov 2023 09:44:47 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [192.168.1.2] (cpe-76-168-148-233.socal.res.rr.com.
 [76.168.148.233]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id
 b8-20020a170903228800b001bf5e24b2a8sm3179274plh.174.2023.11.04.09.44.46
 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128);
 Sat, 04 Nov 2023 09:44:47 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <f3c2310b-5c85-2a07-bae4-b4cf782495c8@HIDDEN>
Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2023 09:44:48 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Subject: Re: bug#66756: 30.0.50; [PATCH] Improve discussion of 'let' in Elisp
 Introduction manual
Content-Language: en-US
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN>
References: <a9812c1d-71e4-5f3f-83a4-a2923e649f3a@HIDDEN>
 <a5120e2f-b008-1b74-1ad9-3fe7d861b13c@HIDDEN> <83fs1l6hyw.fsf@HIDDEN>
From: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <83fs1l6hyw.fsf@HIDDEN>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66756
Cc: 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-)

On 11/4/2023 1:27 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> Richard, could you please review these changes?

I see that there are already some good suggestions for how to improve my 
patch, so I'll try to work on that this weekend.





Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#66756; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


Received: (at 66756) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Nov 2023 08:28:42 +0000
From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Nov 04 04:28:42 2023
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60489 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1qzC1J-0007dA-O1
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 04 Nov 2023 04:28:42 -0400
Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:58772)
 by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
 (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1qzC1I-0007cv-3I
 for 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 04 Nov 2023 04:28:40 -0400
Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e])
 by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256)
 (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>)
 id 1qzC0c-0004hs-NO; Sat, 04 Nov 2023 04:27:58 -0400
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org;
 s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date:
 mime-version; bh=PQIuBbTL7taVCJPMSHY6sljJE562Q9HEcQ4vn2MU6OA=; b=RbxIMFdg3b0B
 qNp8DqnUQpeFfykiOy5CyNVDEQ8ty63JvnEbDximA0KldyxJzmTVe8rC1tk0aRlxqh3JpgfSutGFL
 ZxCLEh2Xdyi5MjMep/JUUFpqTo8llvQyAY8WloXf4VfapUQkcITWVdJX4pGemuHnNipcyTyYcyEWl
 SSkP9qXbe53IaC93TD3LqNB13t8TfqrtklnvqMUTcs3XwOGeIAHhTQNyKiYFAvXD8+ZPU7VvVOFWk
 76Exg9LkmfgGA8d/aMzdP5LsXh31/cDwbFf4PR8f+73Epdse2suUvvPo/F+MVU44DWNF2qliL1oFG
 qVBQtdavPgn2RTfH/6d7Mg==;
Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2023 10:27:51 +0200
Message-Id: <83fs1l6hyw.fsf@HIDDEN>
From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
To: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <a5120e2f-b008-1b74-1ad9-3fe7d861b13c@HIDDEN> (message from
 Jim Porter on Thu, 26 Oct 2023 11:30:46 -0700)
Subject: Re: bug#66756: 30.0.50; [PATCH] Improve discussion of 'let' in Elisp
 Introduction manual
References: <a9812c1d-71e4-5f3f-83a4-a2923e649f3a@HIDDEN>
 <a5120e2f-b008-1b74-1ad9-3fe7d861b13c@HIDDEN>
X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--)
X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66756
Cc: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>, 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---)

> Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2023 11:30:46 -0700
> From: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>
> 
> On 10/26/2023 12:09 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>  > Thanks.
>  >
>  > The challenge in updating the Lisp Introduction manual is to try to
>  > keep its informal and reader-friendly style as much as possible.  It
>  > is not just another ELisp Reference manual!  So please try to keep
>  > that in mind when you write the text, and in particular try not to
>  > modify the existing text that is still accurate -- it was written by a
>  > master, and each word there counts, even if it looks at first sight as
>  > not important.
> 
> Ok, here's a second attempt. I've tried to avoid changing anything that 
> I don't think is truly necessary. I did alter a bit of the original 
> wording to emphasize that under lexical binding, 'let' isn't about time, 
> but about place. For example, that's why I changed this:
> 
> > This is like understanding that whenever your host refers to ``the house'', he means his house, not yours.
> 
> to this:
> 
> > This is like understanding that in your host's home, whenever he refers to ``the house'', he means his house, not yours.
> 
> My previous concern about the "lexical binding" digression still applies 
> though. However, I'm not sure how to get around that at present; if we 
> want to talk about lexical binding in the manual, we need to get users 
> to enable it, so I think it's unavoidable that we at least mention it. I 
> tried to introduce the jargon as gently as I could (by first introducing 
> the term "binding" on its own before mentioning "lexical/dynamic 
> binding"), but it's still a bit intimidating. On the positive side, when 
> lexical binding is the default, we could remove that entire digression.
> 
> There's also an argument that the example I added is in the wrong spot, 
> since we haven't actually introduced the 'let' syntax yet. However, I 
> personally find the example to be pretty useful since it shows off one 
> of the key differences between lexical and dynamic binding, and helps 
> show one of the boundaries of the 'let' form's scope. I myself tend to 
> learn best by seeing examples of that sort. Fixing the order so we 
> introduce the syntax first would require more extensive changes to this 
> section...

Richard, could you please review these changes?

> From 12847e0d59b2de3791efa090addc0169e713e6d1 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
> From: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>
> Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2023 20:43:57 -0700
> Subject: [PATCH] Introduce 'let' using lexical binding in the Lisp
>  Introduction
> 
> * doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi (Prevent confusion): Rework the
> explanation to discuss how things work under lexical binding
> (including how to enable it).
> ---
>  doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi | 67 ++++++++++++++++++++++-------
>  1 file changed, 51 insertions(+), 16 deletions(-)
> 
> diff --git a/doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi b/doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi
> index fce7583fe91..e805833f979 100644
> --- a/doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi
> +++ b/doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi
> @@ -3602,24 +3602,59 @@ Prevent confusion
>  @cindex @samp{variable, local}, defined
>  The @code{let} special form prevents confusion.  @code{let} creates a
>  name for a @dfn{local variable} that overshadows any use of the same
> -name outside the @code{let} expression.  This is like understanding
> -that whenever your host refers to ``the house'', he means his house, not
> -yours.  (Symbols used in argument lists work the same way.
> +name outside the @code{let} expression (in computer science jargon, we
> +call this ``binding'' the variable).  This is like understanding that
> +in your host's home, whenever he refers to ``the house'', he means his
> +house, not yours.  (Symbols used in argument lists work the same way.
>  @xref{defun, , The @code{defun} Macro}.)
>  
> -Local variables created by a @code{let} expression retain their value
> -@emph{only} within the @code{let} expression itself (and within
> -expressions called within the @code{let} expression); the local
> -variables have no effect outside the @code{let} expression.
> -
> -Another way to think about @code{let} is that it is like a @code{setq}
> -that is temporary and local.  The values set by @code{let} are
> -automatically undone when the @code{let} is finished.  The setting
> -only affects expressions that are inside the bounds of the @code{let}
> -expression.  In computer science jargon, we would say the binding of
> -a symbol is visible only in functions called in the @code{let} form;
> -in Emacs Lisp, the default scoping is dynamic, not lexical.  (The
> -non-default lexical binding is not discussed in this manual.)
> +@cindex lexical binding
> +@cindex binding, lexical
> +@cindex dynamic binding
> +@cindex binding, dynamic
> +Before we begin discussing @code{let} in detail, we must first mention
> +an important note.  For historical reasons, Emacs Lisp uses a form of
> +variable binding called ``dynamic binding''.  However, this manual
> +will discuss the preferred form of binding, called ``lexical binding''
> +(if you have programmed in other languages before, you're likely
> +already familiar with how lexical binding behaves).  In order to use
> +lexical binding, you should add something like this to the first line
> +of your Emacs Lisp file:
> +
> +@example
> +;;; -*- lexical-binding: t -*-
> +@end example
> +
> +For more information about this, @pxref{Selecting Lisp Dialect, , ,
> +elisp, The Emacs Lisp Reference Manual}.
> +
> +With that out of the way, we can get back to discussing @code{let}.
> +Another way to think about @code{let} is that it defines a place in
> +your code where the variables you named have their own local meaning.
> +Outside of the @code{let} body, they have another meaning (or they may
> +not be defined at all).
> +
> +This means that inside the @code{let} body, calling @code{setq}
> +for a variable named by the @code{let} expression will set the value
> +of the @emph{local} variable of that name.  This also means that
> +outside of the @code{let} body, calling @code{setq} for a variable
> +named by the @code{let} expression will @emph{not} affect that local
> +variable.
> +
> +For example, if you call a function inside of a @code{let}
> +body, that function's body would be unable to ``see'' (or modify) the
> +value of a local variable from the @code{let} expression:
> +
> +@example
> +(setq x 1)
> +
> +(defun getx ()
> +  x)
> +
> +(let ((x 2))
> +  (get-x))
> +     @result{} 1
> +@end example
>  
>  @code{let} can create more than one variable at once.  Also,
>  @code{let} gives each variable it creates an initial value, either a
> -- 
> 2.25.1
> 




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#66756; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


Received: (at 66756) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Oct 2023 17:19:15 +0000
From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Oct 29 13:19:15 2023
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43288 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1qx9RS-0000ZI-Ou
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 29 Oct 2023 13:19:15 -0400
Received: from mx0a-00069f02.pphosted.com ([205.220.165.32]:50424)
 by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
 (envelope-from <drew.adams@HIDDEN>) id 1qx9RO-0000Z8-Ov
 for 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 29 Oct 2023 13:19:13 -0400
Received: from pps.filterd (m0246617.ppops.net [127.0.0.1])
 by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (8.17.1.19/8.17.1.19) with ESMTP id
 39T69wa0007497; Sun, 29 Oct 2023 17:18:36 GMT
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com;
 h=from : to : cc :
 subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type :
 content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=corp-2023-03-30;
 bh=af7sUUeG4x0gILOsTvQ6uJxdcIWR9EMp3ERBzfL+5/I=;
 b=fc1Ca9EXCl0xdlpjquEadlFnE9BrtwYatTJk5/aTZ5zIkZzdbVHu3cEMBYdnq9AFID8F
 ZtEc9G3lp+yMif6LpFPtC7lQZSFXc1gy3w3+IEIbSCid7Zeh1rzL/Rhn+T1gHaECeSOL
 ZnABgjB2I5KDBNKScb7+ont+MtacxkV2BHYtbx2nM7oadlMRhwZ9Q+SpxY505oYuEy95
 PNXPhdjVoleun25Gv7kKQekxbXHTLRf9Y7jpte0ej+h3QkW+2Abj8q4BvsPvLQWfZvv8
 0KCpstJXW4jfHzWPAxBsdJOByoy5wK3bDR+nwbMtUSuQAL5I+830VeHx98XKJM5cfvm2 Tw== 
Received: from iadpaimrmta03.imrmtpd1.prodappiadaev1.oraclevcn.com
 (iadpaimrmta03.appoci.oracle.com [130.35.103.27])
 by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (PPS) with ESMTPS id 3u0tuu9ct0-1
 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK);
 Sun, 29 Oct 2023 17:18:36 +0000
Received: from pps.filterd
 (iadpaimrmta03.imrmtpd1.prodappiadaev1.oraclevcn.com [127.0.0.1])
 by iadpaimrmta03.imrmtpd1.prodappiadaev1.oraclevcn.com (8.17.1.19/8.17.1.19)
 with ESMTP id 39TH86Xg030690; Sun, 29 Oct 2023 17:18:35 GMT
Received: from nam12-mw2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com
 (mail-mw2nam12lp2040.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.66.40])
 by iadpaimrmta03.imrmtpd1.prodappiadaev1.oraclevcn.com (PPS) with ESMTPS id
 3u0rr9nbvs-1
 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK);
 Sun, 29 Oct 2023 17:18:35 +0000
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none;
 b=bhLo196RL85b20clI9m+CZmLqkqMUsbXfcL2zBuB8cC+d+PZe4mmSLK7VLxNqC2dIg9xsWtAMaRUSe9sCQBVNas3BgJA/cqsXt5wWsdyu53wGj7h4vRChtjlzFZFO39Mcz9A9fWtrapIF1F3a7fjaksOY21u+7lm/tgVpQjQLgAkinxpY4t8EeSNfTU6ZjxiGHFoY5GriPyDTKt2CBbOyaOHIYHCL7EeRCgOpy/7djPQaAPbLFh807YKc87hz3RHplyYLwopR3NBq/B/s2DhEDNtFcNQAkRnJyMP5nd6csbJrO4qSKSz2kMJw7AnkfUw6hORIU5KfN4oCvsDZmcuZA==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; 
 s=arcselector9901;
 h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1;
 bh=af7sUUeG4x0gILOsTvQ6uJxdcIWR9EMp3ERBzfL+5/I=;
 b=FrsRTuTVD3WCBr/KXPW9vUpDJ2h6vzfGc54ReYIQuijslcKRm0o/M9HTBxOqHwaO+A0ZCVFAxYTnvAil/ecawb2nOpZImjcKEiJxHivexbMQUJvvacWzRnXh4OBdtO46L+dlAMNy7z+3d46Mj6hlNPmZ/3D+be3gvzc9IfG7Fx1Xx6DgD1ynPnkoghsF6Vt1b431Pi7DwExwsZ3PPCo0fjxJa4/TbSHlrYQKUaGoSmgqGs4plZtd8CQ21VEwDuHHF8emeop4daHh/5fdqVvYc7PHjo6GmvegIjy9sCYR5t/4iFQxg944lp8wHAEQAft7N1i4h5X4N3J1CXHp08yRtw==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass
 smtp.mailfrom=oracle.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=oracle.com;
 dkim=pass header.d=oracle.com; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
 d=oracle.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-oracle-onmicrosoft-com;
 h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck;
 bh=af7sUUeG4x0gILOsTvQ6uJxdcIWR9EMp3ERBzfL+5/I=;
 b=aKJ/kjrXCq0S8zz6V2TJ0j+Q8qfc4ZAOwD3OEfHxjZWwQdC0wKWJovbOc4VLpd+HuYXKXqEJYT9PBb1EHNqdUxGZZq66gOmfHGJ5ETZ1RDWcXE9mOvbUxjMLmSLbD3Iu2AaTs6kawg7teVpsWkfIHeTSCr9YQn80Nq4lBuPRHm0=
Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:37e::19)
 by DM3PR10MB7969.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:0:45::10) with
 Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2,
 cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.6907.33; Sun, 29 Oct
 2023 17:18:32 +0000
Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com
 ([fe80::9e11:9d8c:b7f4:f45b]) by SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com
 ([fe80::9e11:9d8c:b7f4:f45b%6]) with mapi id 15.20.6907.032; Sun, 29 Oct 2023
 17:18:32 +0000
From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN>
To: "rms@HIDDEN" <rms@HIDDEN>, Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>
Subject: RE: [External] : bug#66756: 30.0.50; [PATCH] Improve discussion of
 'let' in Elisp Introduction manual
Thread-Topic: [External] : bug#66756: 30.0.50; [PATCH] Improve discussion of
 'let' in Elisp Introduction manual
Thread-Index: AQHaCoZlqolk2br6BEGeAg2k0lgaybBhAqCQ
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2023 17:18:31 +0000
Message-ID: <SJ0PR10MB5488DEF7684D147FC04E4A29F3A2A@HIDDEN>
References: <a9812c1d-71e4-5f3f-83a4-a2923e649f3a@HIDDEN>
 <a5120e2f-b008-1b74-1ad9-3fe7d861b13c@HIDDEN>
 <E1qx8nq-0007DY-HV@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <E1qx8nq-0007DY-HV@HIDDEN>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach: 
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: 
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: SJ0PR10MB5488:EE_|DM3PR10MB7969:EE_
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: f3dc1b6d-f11e-48b2-fc4c-08dbd8a3136f
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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
x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:;
 IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE;
 SFS:(13230031)(366004)(346002)(136003)(376002)(39860400002)(396003)(230922051799003)(186009)(64100799003)(451199024)(1800799009)(55016003)(4744005)(38100700002)(41300700001)(86362001)(44832011)(2906002)(6506007)(54906003)(110136005)(64756008)(66476007)(122000001)(66556008)(316002)(478600001)(71200400001)(66446008)(7696005)(9686003)(76116006)(33656002)(52536014)(5660300002)(4326008)(8676002)(66946007)(8936002)(38070700009)(26005);
 DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; 
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: =?utf-8?B?M0RrK3U4dUg4d3A0YnBlMzZ0YmNzM2VlQkhkNHdwemVWZWdvTjZHaHQ1d3Fs?=
 =?utf-8?B?ZzBxVnFwNjRrQUxOV3JSSFQxQnFKQytkNUExTGN4dzlTVG9VSTNVbnFaU0hU?=
 =?utf-8?B?VndrKzh5M01sWUxHNkN2dkNRK2V5RTd5aGYybC9MTmpxUlJOVElETGJ1ZElw?=
 =?utf-8?B?c2Y0ejM0aElIYUxWRXNpRnFGemluaEtCSGg4UDVmdlZpMjZGTEhQbVBBL1JC?=
 =?utf-8?B?cVdVODZZVFpNLytjY1FDM0w5SXBpcHdXUmJrSjdCcUZrcWxHOVd2SmlobFBx?=
 =?utf-8?B?U2NJZXpOdzg5WkFGRGM1NmYyWE1OYnZrMlZuMUsrTUM1Z2VKMUNtd1ZES0o0?=
 =?utf-8?B?d2xhQ0ZuUGV5amtEZXFaWXZ0bmJ2Tzh6MlVwTi9wR3dLTGczUkZQQUxqcVpy?=
 =?utf-8?B?ajNqK0tCWTJuVlEwL3VqYXhOeDNsMWRIRWdNWHF6OUZyQU1uWTBYamFoc1Jw?=
 =?utf-8?B?d1lWZlZHaGtaM0VwSmpZSzdxZVdSTHlQYW1meWRzR0JvaHhkM0I1TmdvMmN4?=
 =?utf-8?B?b0g2aWFid200czNSSjdFcU9ZZDZnUEV6NEtiZXJyRTl4RHNKWklHZ1g0d204?=
 =?utf-8?B?MjNvcTJ3eXJoaTVaZm9kRHVZSXNTSkw2VDlKNE1OMmR5UjAwd05vOENwVm9W?=
 =?utf-8?B?UmFJUU16S1hXTkUvUmVzWjdid2pKMjhGVTZOcTVQSkxjYW9McXlIWm1PTTMr?=
 =?utf-8?B?K3pmSFE3cUd4b0RkaEZ1cXNqeVhWeVMyeDdFYWtWRklTUVROYmxEYUl1OERs?=
 =?utf-8?B?MXpBaERRRUVxcmNrdWgvaU1pWHFmQ2Y5bHRHcUN1bFhHOGJXTllPWm94NzBM?=
 =?utf-8?B?MExvY1huQmVSYy9nd2Uzb2daMkVpcVErTlhZRDFIRmkzVjR5eG9PQzI1VHpP?=
 =?utf-8?B?OHRJdENaa2dsQ1RZdDlaOEFvVkcrd1BCK05UcmJEbUZUVWgvRll4UVRrNWp4?=
 =?utf-8?B?UEU3ZXdWalZkblZQWlBHRmFFS2dkcGd3YXlUR1RmRmVmWTMyWmkrcUhWNkNY?=
 =?utf-8?B?VXNpeUxmSVNCOS9DdWtLNEl6cHc1K3MzOVJYWjJJNWR6Q1RRd0ZYakwxMURU?=
 =?utf-8?B?anFDK1ovbTFnd1d3M1A3dFk3SVYzMTVYczBVSjJMVDFiU1lNQTEremdFby9H?=
 =?utf-8?B?cVZpYW15MmhvSEgrVkRnUzdUUGVZMnlQcU9WYkQ1UFpPRUw2VmhvQTgyVmg5?=
 =?utf-8?B?RjhPRUNJakFSem1EUnNUS2gvTWFzT1ppY2pOQzg5OTczalg3NlBmV2Vrdmd3?=
 =?utf-8?B?aExNOHk4WHludEVsUmVhc3FNcURhVnVsazk2cC9pNEpza1V1S2xLRXB2U01i?=
 =?utf-8?B?K3RNTnh2ZHAwTHhVQVdpZmY2NXh5d0F0cXlNd3dBZVhJTURxdkwrR1VRTWFq?=
 =?utf-8?B?MkJ2Kzk1QU80TmxaVnFOMWRWemNsL1J6eVpNZkV1VVdyV3RSYzc0TGdDcTVE?=
 =?utf-8?B?VENYMjNQVUh4ZTAvTjkrMkcwV3BuUE5MYU5RMy9yeGxrZU5Ia2FaMnV6K3JK?=
 =?utf-8?B?b2N2SG1VUTg2ZUp3em5oRTRDVXZKdUJKZVlQdlRCQU1LL2ZYRFVQdDFTdzVX?=
 =?utf-8?B?M3pkOWthR2FuYytRRDU4T1dyVzM4emhNRE4rZ3Rtb01pUFB5MkVtUklDMFNY?=
 =?utf-8?B?RGR6S1VmbXZqaHBuY0g0aG04RUk0SndoRUtKbklXZWNWbk9RanJ3ZFpSQXJa?=
 =?utf-8?B?WVBVL1F1SzR3TzhtZFFZbWFTbGtOLzRoRXBNeWxGZnZrZTNyK3VnRFlYeDFQ?=
 =?utf-8?B?K0gvaHR1M0NnR2EwUiswM0piQU9CTzZyY1NXRmNsd0l4clpvckxWTVdNNlA0?=
 =?utf-8?B?SDJJdnpJNTRha0ozVklGM3pvcnVWcmttWldDY3lFS0RodjQvVTQ4S05oUWlq?=
 =?utf-8?B?VEY4OEowNDg4ZEdSN2twaDA4a1V3T3RKZTU5eDRCRkhURGhwZm5qVHFFazhI?=
 =?utf-8?B?cFhXeUY1VG5RM0Rtc0U2RHR2L2c5UDBHSmV0djlqRTR5SEVqTEtlK1dsWlhG?=
 =?utf-8?B?UGZMd3ptSmI0bWIxQzluSHRPVSsyalgxaUJhQUlrSkwrVlM2RHIvRGxxRTNN?=
 =?utf-8?B?SksrUUxwb1dXQndOSndIQTFUS3VtNndXeS9QUDNjVlNDeDZpd1Y0YXQ2NHJP?=
 =?utf-8?Q?ge3AfUwbnJgshkwUOMDF7Ty9G?=
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-ChunkCount: 1
X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-0: 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
X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: f3dc1b6d-f11e-48b2-fc4c-08dbd8a3136f
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 29 Oct 2023 17:18:31.9842 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: c8qB8djx5xP/n3c7df9sb1/dKAdRYgRW3KYnHolnCSYhOT7c4rO+zBwlgXZdBnX29nLmf385/ARfAbiQVumKIA==
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM3PR10MB7969
X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard
 engine=ICAP:2.0.272,Aquarius:18.0.987,Hydra:6.0.619,FMLib:17.11.176.26
 definitions=2023-10-29_06,2023-10-27_01,2023-05-22_02
X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 bulkscore=0
 suspectscore=0 spamscore=0
 phishscore=0 mlxlogscore=656 adultscore=0 mlxscore=0 malwarescore=0
 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2310240000
 definitions=main-2310290149
X-Proofpoint-GUID: 5U2Ao0IeQZPW4RgAmMRuUGe-Sw8Safbk
X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: 5U2Ao0IeQZPW4RgAmMRuUGe-Sw8Safbk
X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/)
X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66756
Cc: "eliz@HIDDEN" <eliz@HIDDEN>,
 "66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-)
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Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#66756; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


Received: (at 66756) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Oct 2023 16:39:00 +0000
From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Oct 29 12:39:00 2023
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43235 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1qx8oW-0007pS-0A
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 29 Oct 2023 12:39:00 -0400
Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:41030)
 by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
 (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1qx8oS-0007p6-S5
 for 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 29 Oct 2023 12:38:58 -0400
Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e])
 by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256)
 (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>)
 id 1qx8nq-0004OB-Q6; Sun, 29 Oct 2023 12:38:18 -0400
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org;
 s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:
 mime-version; bh=3o4GuYfPpxcQNIFAHn4D1eVAnkodg7AsZfnwhyDammM=; b=Tafljwats09F
 5uj3Xa5QwQ2Mp1jwa1rCw7WDYlp5V3kSo95ic/fyj0i529/vC+2TcyUqj8hquUlhJkd7QhCI6TP8X
 FJP6UawpK6KNtH5kRqUKRY2Xk/FOTl9qKbQfxgAv7I/p+6UO88WpbsJd7EQIXvKuoWi+65gJAlFTs
 hL6zTOfg/1iUJiQhNXPDINlUUPC9KrCtFbS9jvmKEdbnuYUy7cDnklJQuIMp1N/MGcjYh+ovIXZa5
 MzfO+Lds7PelVfyUYXnEyWlpgyGtxY+Xkl2qYBUuH+cviy3T0DTz6f2Mr24CNbzE5TSvREN1AbFds
 5+tPxdZgW7XhcHy0ZrYhOA==;
Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1)
 (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>)
 id 1qx8nq-0007DY-HV; Sun, 29 Oct 2023 12:38:18 -0400
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8
From: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN>
To: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <a5120e2f-b008-1b74-1ad9-3fe7d861b13c@HIDDEN> (message from
 Jim Porter on Thu, 26 Oct 2023 11:30:46 -0700)
Subject: Re: bug#66756: 30.0.50;
 [PATCH] Improve discussion of 'let' in Elisp Introduction manual
References: <a9812c1d-71e4-5f3f-83a4-a2923e649f3a@HIDDEN>
 <a5120e2f-b008-1b74-1ad9-3fe7d861b13c@HIDDEN>
Message-Id: <E1qx8nq-0007DY-HV@HIDDEN>
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2023 12:38:18 -0400
X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--)
X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66756
Cc: eliz@HIDDEN, 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Reply-To: rms@HIDDEN
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---)

[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

  > > This is like understanding that in your host's home, whenever he refers to ``the house'', he means his house, not yours.

That seems good enough to me.

  > My previous concern about the "lexical binding" digression still applies 
  > though. However, I'm not sure how to get around that at present; if we 
  > want to talk about lexical binding in the manual, we need to get users 
  > to enable it, so I think it's unavoidable that we at least mention it. 

I think that the lexical/dynamic scope distinction is sufficiently
important that this manual should explain it, whether or not hiding it
is simply impossible.

However, tehre are lots of simple Lisp functions for which lexical
vs dynamic maks no diffeence.  For example,

(defun square (x)
  (* x x))

So perhaps it is possible for the first few sections to use examples
which work the same in lexical mode and dynamic mode, THEN show an
example for which it does make a difference as a way to explain the
two modes.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)






Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#66756; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


Received: (at 66756) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Oct 2023 18:31:29 +0000
From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Oct 26 14:31:29 2023
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34461 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1qw58i-0007y1-M8
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Oct 2023 14:31:29 -0400
Received: from mail-pf1-x430.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::430]:54433)
 by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
 (envelope-from <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>) id 1qw58g-0007xk-10
 for 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Oct 2023 14:31:27 -0400
Received: by mail-pf1-x430.google.com with SMTP id
 d2e1a72fcca58-6b89ab5ddb7so1234893b3a.0
 for <66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 26 Oct 2023 11:30:54 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
 d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1698345049; x=1698949849; darn=debbugs.gnu.org;
 h=in-reply-to:references:to:from:content-language:subject
 :mime-version:date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id
 :reply-to; bh=DEGQZAdeYkwo3wHH++p6M5GyIwbhJrt/4g4pAT2PTIo=;
 b=NGZxhOpzwSPI7OHEYFju100pMHRtlPowMiD8tIEAzKZQaFocEeBmIAkjh6HzjOyTFI
 14j1J97fMDFnM9ecfTysnkmttBpmPqj1P/NF0NDm/c5uMCmO4R0iTep+wdacLI4HGUCR
 1MF/hEe+JCnOMx0EEo8dXuANcgqQv/bNzsW1zzGWnG+z6d4gibJ3XdkYDCmHVK759MEY
 Motc/KbG9cbPKbfO3JsaHgKX00TXy3Bj3UR4Ks8BzaoHRC7BaNOO2jcbHHLD1LumOLMY
 xUfx/35vp/UWisqyul8wPfWzka04AXjOYx1nQUmEImpgAnrkIs9NeOsqkd5bjrbDocuj
 nDBw==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
 d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1698345049; x=1698949849;
 h=in-reply-to:references:to:from:content-language:subject
 :mime-version:date:message-id:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject
 :date:message-id:reply-to;
 bh=DEGQZAdeYkwo3wHH++p6M5GyIwbhJrt/4g4pAT2PTIo=;
 b=L4/V5U8qS4Q0LJbeOF1RJ5vqQ2ZiCbNZ285VRnrkqMDCzLQdw3No/mjh1ym4O3zWH6
 zz/TeYPHWpp129jnbTGJ4K4Po4Y0yCnzx9wJNb7OZ8ZMkraWx65oYmeiZtXbpFy6c38J
 p4vbvBVIUPAmtC1KLzie0GxUEtFRvsRomSijjY1Ey2wBVGIDkhRY+Yhkfc3zb5H8rScR
 Jmxy/jk02/KixV5fOROM+V0MODQtPYv6Nc+1K1DwiKUKBMs77yKRMCT6yYfFzAzILNMf
 YVjlxg3hwyo47FDUHPi6Wm/0j8+NcQR5hB4QvgY3/Igr5HX0kBFcPZi5+VgN8dBVzaFc
 GmdQ==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxlYVK5NmGrFeeboekMF1t784Zz7Z4PzT2AgjpDqx129Iv1FHCj
 F8AdSx37Jv50rJOyCZmv2Y5O6jG8ZLo=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IG8YsqSQ3Jm8xy0O5CrVh2ta8K28mT7orrSecAbMlyNNGxwN98Mg8ANmlkEWji2ySnjPEBy1g==
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6a00:2e27:b0:6bd:b3b9:649f with SMTP id
 fc39-20020a056a002e2700b006bdb3b9649fmr387968pfb.7.1698345048694; 
 Thu, 26 Oct 2023 11:30:48 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [192.168.1.2] (cpe-76-168-148-233.socal.res.rr.com.
 [76.168.148.233]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id
 s187-20020a625ec4000000b0068ff267f094sm11980235pfb.158.2023.10.26.11.30.47
 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128);
 Thu, 26 Oct 2023 11:30:48 -0700 (PDT)
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------pLS8SgkCX4BkOUlIXEdkfVyJ"
Message-ID: <a5120e2f-b008-1b74-1ad9-3fe7d861b13c@HIDDEN>
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2023 11:30:46 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
Subject: Re: bug#66756: 30.0.50; [PATCH] Improve discussion of 'let' in Elisp
 Introduction manual
Content-Language: en-US
From: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>
To: 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, eliz@HIDDEN
References: <a9812c1d-71e4-5f3f-83a4-a2923e649f3a@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <a9812c1d-71e4-5f3f-83a4-a2923e649f3a@HIDDEN>
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66756
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-)

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------pLS8SgkCX4BkOUlIXEdkfVyJ
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

On 10/26/2023 12:09 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
 > Thanks.
 >
 > The challenge in updating the Lisp Introduction manual is to try to
 > keep its informal and reader-friendly style as much as possible.  It
 > is not just another ELisp Reference manual!  So please try to keep
 > that in mind when you write the text, and in particular try not to
 > modify the existing text that is still accurate -- it was written by a
 > master, and each word there counts, even if it looks at first sight as
 > not important.

Ok, here's a second attempt. I've tried to avoid changing anything that 
I don't think is truly necessary. I did alter a bit of the original 
wording to emphasize that under lexical binding, 'let' isn't about time, 
but about place. For example, that's why I changed this:

> This is like understanding that whenever your host refers to ``the house'', he means his house, not yours.

to this:

> This is like understanding that in your host's home, whenever he refers to ``the house'', he means his house, not yours.

My previous concern about the "lexical binding" digression still applies 
though. However, I'm not sure how to get around that at present; if we 
want to talk about lexical binding in the manual, we need to get users 
to enable it, so I think it's unavoidable that we at least mention it. I 
tried to introduce the jargon as gently as I could (by first introducing 
the term "binding" on its own before mentioning "lexical/dynamic 
binding"), but it's still a bit intimidating. On the positive side, when 
lexical binding is the default, we could remove that entire digression.

There's also an argument that the example I added is in the wrong spot, 
since we haven't actually introduced the 'let' syntax yet. However, I 
personally find the example to be pretty useful since it shows off one 
of the key differences between lexical and dynamic binding, and helps 
show one of the boundaries of the 'let' form's scope. I myself tend to 
learn best by seeing examples of that sort. Fixing the order so we 
introduce the syntax first would require more extensive changes to this 
section...
--------------pLS8SgkCX4BkOUlIXEdkfVyJ
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8;
 name="0001-Introduce-let-using-lexical-binding-in-the-Lisp-Intr.patch"
Content-Disposition: attachment;
 filename*0="0001-Introduce-let-using-lexical-binding-in-the-Lisp-Intr.pa";
 filename*1="tch"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
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--------------pLS8SgkCX4BkOUlIXEdkfVyJ--




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#66756; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Oct 2023 05:55:11 +0000
From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Oct 26 01:55:11 2023
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60446 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1qvtKo-0004My-IC
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Oct 2023 01:55:11 -0400
Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:470:142::17]:43392)
 by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
 (envelope-from <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>) id 1qvtKj-0004MM-U4
 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Oct 2023 01:55:08 -0400
Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10])
 by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256)
 (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>)
 id 1qvtK9-0005wW-PX
 for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Thu, 26 Oct 2023 01:54:29 -0400
Received: from mail-pg1-x535.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::535])
 by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128)
 (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>)
 id 1qvtK7-0002JQ-Tg
 for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Thu, 26 Oct 2023 01:54:29 -0400
Received: by mail-pg1-x535.google.com with SMTP id
 41be03b00d2f7-5b7f3f470a9so459095a12.0
 for <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>; Wed, 25 Oct 2023 22:54:27 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
 d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1698299666; x=1698904466; darn=gnu.org;
 h=subject:from:to:content-language:mime-version:date:message-id:from
 :to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to;
 bh=rShmVFDR4DyVRveSrlS+FubbrYm9XYCHRw8xO8Ja6cQ=;
 b=TBRxaJ2XRLCcT9UgIK8o3zM9z1JS0UbkXgLMYoky2x82CTrc+n7iUZKzehT3r2YI6o
 fAc3lRg/7KJeO1bI7A8aRV52taaa36RJ7XTkk2ctBjIY+xBAx6g7oRrcktl4qTdDDj8h
 +c4ejEco0aws0/FB1B8bWX61rTqXaXxSbOshHNMo7Qw2Fnru2BCGOm16+ufbiLoLgGqW
 NXY9ClS8k21rvEIpecDf8I8gPxMvS0dx+otW3upf5Qnmrv+JejqsoehIp2la2CanV+oo
 56Am3fwsbkxUKFZ+JCGiZU6bgesET1kQOWypkiagQUFFwERbib6CkF9rCIOuKwJNyuU0
 Lv6g==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
 d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1698299666; x=1698904466;
 h=subject:from:to:content-language:mime-version:date:message-id
 :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to;
 bh=rShmVFDR4DyVRveSrlS+FubbrYm9XYCHRw8xO8Ja6cQ=;
 b=F1YAkhXpYIgagsPqN36weZ3Yu5hngETGcOezETqVwwR6q1Ob8ltofUJjNizMlDSENo
 3HCdICH3ZvizxD5n3ppviVPFkc8rrL+2OzAoNz01g90u1koAMXEr4WDouQstu3O6pBKs
 sdCsfr0sDGY/CANHaELKO6X5pXv+pVucshWBIVmgYDzZuJW5y5upzLcEnI9WwLzyJsbN
 lkLMlL8arAEUiS2rCooiSHH2cVQLxzmOsvhJ073RZ9D09Kg9HOJH9H3TcTpDe8BtUvUb
 vrl/LYeBygXQPkblsgHRCJPc9Lopfe94SaoNGimzb7qohEY7zZe6JnLnvKjcN/Eddx4L
 NIKg==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzRfegh4IDDmF3UJHyD6KOR7wS8yl+4auQqZaAf+9jjm7djdufb
 iCsgJw0kjDdwn7KnHUsf9ObAFAYGDbQ=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEG8CrOkngQIMrxJ9x+pitzec8PXClocXjHqEt3+6VOMbl1fgn3/4QAZy+KxxqshO211xnSjA==
X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:19c2:b0:27f:fa81:8dd9 with SMTP id
 2-20020a17090a19c200b0027ffa818dd9mr199371pjj.22.1698299666129; 
 Wed, 25 Oct 2023 22:54:26 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [192.168.1.2] (cpe-76-168-148-233.socal.res.rr.com.
 [76.168.148.233]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id
 mv7-20020a17090b198700b002744cd7e687sm1017751pjb.1.2023.10.25.22.54.25
 for <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>
 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128);
 Wed, 25 Oct 2023 22:54:25 -0700 (PDT)
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------TSZQr00hDOQTeZcFlCrzSt2n"
Message-ID: <a9812c1d-71e4-5f3f-83a4-a2923e649f3a@HIDDEN>
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2023 22:54:25 -0700
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mozilla-News-Host: news://news.gmane.io:119
Content-Language: en-US
To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
From: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>
Subject: 30.0.50; [PATCH] Improve discussion of 'let' in Elisp Introduction
 manual
Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::535;
 envelope-from=jporterbugs@HIDDEN; helo=mail-pg1-x535.google.com
X-Spam_score_int: -20
X-Spam_score: -2.1
X-Spam_bar: --
X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1,
 DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001,
 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001,
 SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
X-Spam_action: no action
X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+)
X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, 
 <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/)

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------TSZQr00hDOQTeZcFlCrzSt2n
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

(Spun out from bug#66706. My previous message below.)

On 10/25/2023 8:48 PM, Jim Porter wrote:
 > On 10/25/2023 6:19 PM, Jim Porter wrote:
 >> I'll start with a patch here then. I think this is also a prime spot
 >> to add an example or two that would actually show lexical binding in
 >> action (i.e. a sample where the code would do something different
 >> under dynamic binding).
 >
 > Here's a first attempt. I'm not sure I'm entirely happy with it (the
 > digression into setting 'lexical-binding' to 't' is a bit disruptive),
 > but hopefully it's an improvement. Of course, we can keep adjusting this
 > further as needed.
--------------TSZQr00hDOQTeZcFlCrzSt2n
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8;
 name="0001-Introduce-let-using-lexical-binding-in-the-Lisp-Intr.patch"
Content-Disposition: attachment;
 filename*0="0001-Introduce-let-using-lexical-binding-in-the-Lisp-Intr.pa";
 filename*1="tch"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
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--------------TSZQr00hDOQTeZcFlCrzSt2n--




Acknowledgement sent to Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>:
New bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN. Full text available.
Report forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#66756; Package emacs. Full text available.
Please note: This is a static page, with minimal formatting, updated once a day.
Click here to see this page with the latest information and nicer formatting.
Last modified: Sun, 19 Nov 2023 20:30:02 UTC

GNU bug tracking system
Copyright (C) 1999 Darren O. Benham, 1997 nCipher Corporation Ltd, 1994-97 Ian Jackson.