Received: (at 66756) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Nov 2023 20:17:31 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Nov 19 15:17:31 2023 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52155 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1r4oEV-0002ts-H4 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 19 Nov 2023 15:17:31 -0500 Received: from mail-pf1-x436.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::436]:43026) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>) id 1r4oES-0002te-Vk for 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 19 Nov 2023 15:17:30 -0500 Received: by mail-pf1-x436.google.com with SMTP id d2e1a72fcca58-6cb55001124so641706b3a.0 for <66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 19 Nov 2023 12:17:27 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1700425041; x=1701029841; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to :content-language:subject:mime-version:date:message-id:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=qq7yOyNtXPSUKSbr/q4FzcTPnL0M/JjgFUficEwDJfg=; b=bUQGb+WJws4WBPNqmaV22fR3JRU5poeYZpK/V9RW3vlMuAl4aZ/CFg/t6VZtzgVvDt A9d8Vq30eXa6jeiee73jsMpqTqZGagoFqoqabxUfDCuxdVTpr9CBexexMoFqRF4lfOKh /uvFz9zpe5B8+W7y63bHnUE6HgSBiV9aYuWBdpTdq2WZjo6G27DGJi17kVEePbCNtqj1 WU82iF95l3oPR4B0nrF5rYyMjINTyxJrvHROB7XCNV4mJCQX7hARm8G093LvkxybT99T Hbhtox0dqtLQuN/N7H/LMtkyU5Rc6FoA07wW7m+io+aFhAhE3ewia+LmzPmcJK3ND3pW xI7Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1700425041; x=1701029841; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to :content-language:subject:mime-version:date:message-id :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=qq7yOyNtXPSUKSbr/q4FzcTPnL0M/JjgFUficEwDJfg=; b=cjRfA8MvacSM4omWyel7DC0gdM+MoTlNvK8mg4kpySv6HFqQnlaVL8qDccy5Aa7qOS zY0DUCxv7bIegbQ9uNSRhAbMcrlZPRq96QLQQcR051LOhdW4s1pr7fccNG1QPEZvTlQb bFhedb1ahBdjPINQgmLD6AOcwOiS7MtPTc9OzK4wYgQImHClIp8kUJGhFvGwmoGxGdw2 f8d9oDFNQ5H2Rsd7AcjNXOsJZgDaFnXHf3Odw+qC3j0HDHd5K2IuXQt4HsLG90KBdjrJ IVYVHtWnVf0hKJOuxVqDWcArgzN/DHBn2uXS78XRcm2/vqnFBrsqAj1Nu5B/W7tgkks+ owpQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yy/LtDs4WnDdqZ7jQJmEFBU5R/v1DcaMHvDl02iYmg+qUnx1M2Y 06ZayZEv9Fv7KfT9lF9Geu4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEfCgRBD7/yLKR+2rOHMJkMIq3sV6XdWKft47sA2fcm/IsuA84f8djhVLy0lyYtXJQLy7LhPA== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6a21:999d:b0:187:4e8c:ac5c with SMTP id ve29-20020a056a21999d00b001874e8cac5cmr7308001pzb.1.1700425041423; Sun, 19 Nov 2023 12:17:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (cpe-76-168-148-233.socal.res.rr.com. [76.168.148.233]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id f2-20020a056a0022c200b0064fd4a6b306sm4651235pfj.76.2023.11.19.12.17.20 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 19 Nov 2023 12:17:21 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <d4eac704-953c-3106-5509-6356c7721855@HIDDEN> Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2023 12:17:19 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: bug#66756: 30.0.50; [PATCH] Improve discussion of 'let' in Elisp Introduction manual Content-Language: en-US To: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN> References: <a9812c1d-71e4-5f3f-83a4-a2923e649f3a@HIDDEN> <a5120e2f-b008-1b74-1ad9-3fe7d861b13c@HIDDEN> <E1qx8nq-0007DY-HV@HIDDEN> <3ade119d-0f0d-e60e-1bdc-9c7e02c1559c@HIDDEN> <E1r4YeF-0001fe-Ex@HIDDEN> <381836df-c16f-b3e7-d0c4-473290e165de@HIDDEN> <f44cca7f-13bb-a41a-c9ce-55f1b736c52b@HIDDEN> <878r6ut9wh.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <878r6ut9wh.fsf@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66756 Cc: eliz@HIDDEN, rms@HIDDEN, 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 11/19/2023 12:38 AM, Michael Albinus wrote: > Would it be worth to emphasize, that a declaration of x changes this? > That is, when a variable is declared, both lexical and dynamic binding > behave identically. Thanks, that's probably a good idea. We should mention this in the section that introduces 'defvar'. I'll work on adding that.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#66756; Package emacs.
Full text available.
Received: (at 66756) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Nov 2023 08:39:08 +0000
From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Nov 19 03:39:08 2023
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49866 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
id 1r4dKd-0003k9-Mr
for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 19 Nov 2023 03:39:08 -0500
Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.18]:58717)
by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
(envelope-from <michael.albinus@HIDDEN>) id 1r4dKa-0003jc-0S
for 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 19 Nov 2023 03:39:06 -0500
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.de; s=s31663417;
t=1700383135; x=1700987935; i=michael.albinus@HIDDEN;
bh=M1I9TVLt4uo0h6wZWL9eUyhuT+vbc07nid2TNIFsVjM=;
h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:
Date;
b=B7Rw707J4eWlABIAHZBmnEt1aNhPfnzFgNgd52uFDj6IEtqyQFyq3s0IfPhmzIQN
iZmP8NGOjzTNQjs2jmIh1Ce3SfQLsXyWguQUmT9zg9WCQRlOzIPYmoLwVESSqVQgJ
jRmTmXyOcQGy5jRGH9qvDi7xJIo1wmZkpzTRUzjCE4QUs2T7CbW9u+vrv86wE7/OR
eB4eWpBk5OQbJcKSTbdizJW8I0nOAID6i/B+n4TDLwkgJIhWOKeMOZm2jlcqxTmjV
U9mMnrYnL+Gp7ZQdoi59ZJrThfA7O/JvD0bFF7dQu45mQuwBG+HNwn/M78Fl0S7aM
UXtOLsKTJCt/gLnlGw==
X-UI-Sender-Class: 724b4f7f-cbec-4199-ad4e-598c01a50d3a
Received: from gandalf.gmx.de ([185.89.39.30]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx005
[212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1N0XCw-1rIkOZ2zSe-00wRM1; Sun, 19
Nov 2023 09:38:55 +0100
From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN>
To: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#66756: 30.0.50; [PATCH] Improve discussion of 'let' in
Elisp Introduction manual
In-Reply-To: <f44cca7f-13bb-a41a-c9ce-55f1b736c52b@HIDDEN> (Jim Porter's
message of "Sat, 18 Nov 2023 21:30:11 -0800")
References: <a9812c1d-71e4-5f3f-83a4-a2923e649f3a@HIDDEN>
<a5120e2f-b008-1b74-1ad9-3fe7d861b13c@HIDDEN>
<E1qx8nq-0007DY-HV@HIDDEN>
<3ade119d-0f0d-e60e-1bdc-9c7e02c1559c@HIDDEN>
<E1r4YeF-0001fe-Ex@HIDDEN>
<381836df-c16f-b3e7-d0c4-473290e165de@HIDDEN>
<f44cca7f-13bb-a41a-c9ce-55f1b736c52b@HIDDEN>
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2023 09:38:54 +0100
Message-ID: <878r6ut9wh.fsf@HIDDEN>
User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:uWEMuC+jODN6xmCCNm62YTFri9lGa87RFxls2iKwytFY4U2hPRl
IL5eFS0OMB7pc8bto/9lN+cEIdwGa+dhSL0/x3v+b0O+STkYO1juHPuOykZ/25kRdQ9s0w1
Xjpkwm63xFtY9MvNfZIzQ4fFzl7YgIr7zE6Ep2N4kXcaMTd+Bc3wMXCkljG8DFrRZixE5h3
28/SRnCGeJ44SlOmbe9UQ==
X-Spam-Flag: NO
UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:gukPw5BsXJQ=;w6T5vzV4QOl3dIDYxYOn7n0WMXa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X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/)
X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66756
Cc: eliz@HIDDEN, rms@HIDDEN, 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>,
<mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>,
<mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-)
Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN> writes:
Hi Jim,
> +In some cases, both lexical and dynamic binding behave identically.
> +However, in other cases, they can change the meaning of your program.
> +For example, under lexical binding, if you call a function inside of a
> +@code{let} body, that function's body would be unable to ``see'' (or
> +modify) the value of a local variable from the @code{let} expression:
> +
> +@example
> +;;; -*- lexical-binding: t -*-
> +
> +(setq x 1)
> +
> +(defun getx ()
> + x)
> +
> +(let ((x 2))
> + (getx))
> + @result{} 1
> +@end example
> +
> +@noindent
> +If we use dynamic binding instead, the behavior is different:
> +
> +@example
> +;;; -*- lexical-binding: nil -*-
> +
> +(setq x 1)
> +
> +(defun getx ()
> + x)
> +
> +(let ((x 2))
> + (getx))
> + @result{} 2
> +@end example
> +
> +Now, the result of @samp{(getx)} is @samp{2}! That's because under
> +dynamic binding, when @code{getx} looks for the value of @code{x}, it
> +sees the value we set in our @code{let} expression. In other words,
> +the call to @code{getx} happens during the @emph{time} when our
> +@code{let} expression is active. Under lexical binding, @code{getx}
> +doesn't see the value from our @code{let} expression. That's because
> +it happens in a different @emph{place} than the @code{let} body.
Would it be worth to emphasize, that a declaration of x changes this?
That is, when a variable is declared, both lexical and dynamic binding
behave identically.
@example
;;; -*- lexical-binding: t -*-
(devfar x 1)
(defun getx ()
x)
(let ((x 2))
(getx))
@result{} 2
@end example
Best regards, Michael.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#66756; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 66756) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Nov 2023 05:30:25 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Nov 19 00:30:25 2023 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49757 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1r4aO0-0000yW-DG for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 19 Nov 2023 00:30:25 -0500 Received: from mail-oo1-xc33.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::c33]:61775) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>) id 1r4aNv-0000yE-I5 for 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 19 Nov 2023 00:30:22 -0500 Received: by mail-oo1-xc33.google.com with SMTP id 006d021491bc7-5849fc56c62so2203215eaf.3 for <66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 18 Nov 2023 21:30:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1700371812; x=1700976612; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=in-reply-to:references:cc:to:from:content-language:subject :mime-version:date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=F47wi46MY3GHqFOKoyWSAI3I28LKqQu7Mk8RbHOiPbk=; b=KLUIdGO11Smy2YNZ8iNEfEy5/huHdmA3AljkBvfeceldwS7LCAhYb+WoVqU2NcQMiu UNCovsdfWefe/dT7p47rOCim5ks0CJuKEovqVS0x6/mYyJq0WMlb/k8pMt7vkmxCxuvl mFSBrJ+cZ2/PEf3wTxMl3Yszes4v9m/fqr/RZ62vQXpjgoh0RdhUme6M871z9wokdrdR oT67+JgGAgDV3iQ3X27KNVOvQYsyzxz+2atio0EoRAgf88nwokcf3uFfJLzHyxprt1hn 3COxVjsyPl2g+54kYcgOn0JODwbSze0Po+74RsyqtNy1LiLJlOJEP/vaU596y13NZSeR Tr6A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1700371812; x=1700976612; h=in-reply-to:references:cc:to:from:content-language:subject :mime-version:date:message-id:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject :date:message-id:reply-to; bh=F47wi46MY3GHqFOKoyWSAI3I28LKqQu7Mk8RbHOiPbk=; b=whqINlDtZ4c6PNptyhjbdwBT1t0vOihfz/18PLgLhpWBwcjKw4QIe5d0jh2nv0IvTY BtzXrc2K7+RkjTxwwCWylnyczPmUyD7KNbX7mbJilSmyUsN4MsmPgnm8KhXBbdjo75hG O+3gnT+SbOoqLmyMBTlsCl1onEZQMjmIg4qS0J7zEttRt8jmB0CEL9WGBo9Z8Lge1xm5 a8nbKkYbe6daqgTcxMvKLeIYV+aYkG6v43XQVY/AdC+XWpZcqR1t57fl7WiZPTD4VEfF Qzn/VCG24ZwaMJNUT3on4BbKFF1XreM7N+qUGD6A/d9V4H3PPEcz0mFq+CXd5B0AzFvz /FkQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzTrzgSA87UIm4wbINFX2iqweeJGeZONTDAtcgNNkeOlPIivGoP PDBxfGfUjFUdJzKAzG5LLqtICORZC84= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFjUM3fx8roP9stpTXMN3VkqZNmTqgfvn5kEJlC4rk7DFWTZYJXjQ4jjRHSaSGBUhE2s2nXcw== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6870:2f05:b0:1ea:2c8b:e18e with SMTP id qj5-20020a0568702f0500b001ea2c8be18emr5180574oab.8.1700371812595; Sat, 18 Nov 2023 21:30:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (cpe-76-168-148-233.socal.res.rr.com. [76.168.148.233]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id d14-20020a17090a564e00b002851466f471sm1215739pji.31.2023.11.18.21.30.11 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 18 Nov 2023 21:30:12 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------u39TyNpGDhlethcqzINtvb0H" Message-ID: <f44cca7f-13bb-a41a-c9ce-55f1b736c52b@HIDDEN> Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2023 21:30:11 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: bug#66756: 30.0.50; [PATCH] Improve discussion of 'let' in Elisp Introduction manual Content-Language: en-US From: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN> To: rms@HIDDEN References: <a9812c1d-71e4-5f3f-83a4-a2923e649f3a@HIDDEN> <a5120e2f-b008-1b74-1ad9-3fe7d861b13c@HIDDEN> <E1qx8nq-0007DY-HV@HIDDEN> <3ade119d-0f0d-e60e-1bdc-9c7e02c1559c@HIDDEN> <E1r4YeF-0001fe-Ex@HIDDEN> <381836df-c16f-b3e7-d0c4-473290e165de@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <381836df-c16f-b3e7-d0c4-473290e165de@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66756 Cc: eliz@HIDDEN, 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------u39TyNpGDhlethcqzINtvb0H Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 11/18/2023 9:25 PM, Jim Porter wrote: > I believe that's the goal, yes. I've added a note that the maintainers > eventually plan on making lexical binding the default. Oops, I forgot to finish rewording one sentence in my previous patch. Here's the fixed version. --------------u39TyNpGDhlethcqzINtvb0H Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; name="0001-Introduce-let-using-lexical-binding-in-the-Lisp-Intr.patch" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename*0="0001-Introduce-let-using-lexical-binding-in-the-Lisp-Intr.pa"; filename*1="tch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 RnJvbSBhMWVmZmU5NmRlNmM2ZWYxZWMyZDk3ZTY1Y2NiMzgzZGU4NzAyMmZkIE1vbiBTZXAg MTcgMDA6MDA6MDAgMjAwMQpGcm9tOiBKaW0gUG9ydGVyIDxqcG9ydGVyYnVnc0BnbWFpbC5j b20+CkRhdGU6IFdlZCwgMjUgT2N0IDIwMjMgMjA6NDM6NTcgLTA3MDAKU3ViamVjdDogW1BB VENIXSBJbnRyb2R1Y2UgJ2xldCcgdXNpbmcgbGV4aWNhbCBiaW5kaW5nIGluIHRoZSBMaXNw CiBJbnRyb2R1Y3Rpb24KCkJ1ZyM2Njc1Ni4KCiogZG9jL2xpc3BpbnRyby9lbWFjcy1saXNw LWludHJvLnRleGkgKFByZXZlbnQgY29uZnVzaW9uKTogUmV3b3JrIHRoZQpleHBsYW5hdGlv biB0byBkaXNjdXNzIGhvdyB0aGluZ3Mgd29yayB1bmRlciBsZXhpY2FsIGJpbmRpbmcuCihI b3cgbGV0IEJpbmRzIFZhcmlhYmxlcyk6IERlc2NyaWJlIHRoZSBkaWZmZXJlbmNlcyBiZXR3 ZWVuIGxleGljYWwKYW5kIGR5bmFtaWMgYmluZGluZyAoaW5jbHVkaW5nIGhvdyB0byBjb25m aWd1cmUgaXQpLgotLS0KIGRvYy9saXNwaW50cm8vZW1hY3MtbGlzcC1pbnRyby50ZXhpIHwg MTE1ICsrKysrKysrKysrKysrKysrKysrKysrKy0tLS0KIDEgZmlsZSBjaGFuZ2VkLCA5OCBp bnNlcnRpb25zKCspLCAxNyBkZWxldGlvbnMoLSkKCmRpZmYgLS1naXQgYS9kb2MvbGlzcGlu dHJvL2VtYWNzLWxpc3AtaW50cm8udGV4aSBiL2RvYy9saXNwaW50cm8vZW1hY3MtbGlzcC1p bnRyby50ZXhpCmluZGV4IGM1YjMzYWM1ZWFhLi41M2E1MWVkMDAxZCAxMDA2NDQKLS0tIGEv ZG9jL2xpc3BpbnRyby9lbWFjcy1saXNwLWludHJvLnRleGkKKysrIGIvZG9jL2xpc3BpbnRy by9lbWFjcy1saXNwLWludHJvLnRleGkKQEAgLTM1OTEsNiArMzU5MSw3IEBAIGxldAogKiBQ YXJ0cyBvZiBsZXQgRXhwcmVzc2lvbjo6CiAqIFNhbXBsZSBsZXQgRXhwcmVzc2lvbjo6CiAq IFVuaW5pdGlhbGl6ZWQgbGV0IFZhcmlhYmxlczo6CisqIEhvdyBsZXQgQmluZHMgVmFyaWFi bGVzOjoKIEBlbmQgbWVudQogCiBAaWZub3R0ZXgKQEAgLTM2MDEsMjUgKzM2MDIsMjIgQEAg UHJldmVudCBjb25mdXNpb24KIEBjaW5kZXggQHNhbXB7bG9jYWwgdmFyaWFibGV9IGRlZmlu ZWQKIEBjaW5kZXggQHNhbXB7dmFyaWFibGUsIGxvY2FsfSwgZGVmaW5lZAogVGhlIEBjb2Rl e2xldH0gc3BlY2lhbCBmb3JtIHByZXZlbnRzIGNvbmZ1c2lvbi4gIEBjb2Rle2xldH0gY3Jl YXRlcyBhCi1uYW1lIGZvciBhIEBkZm57bG9jYWwgdmFyaWFibGV9IHRoYXQgb3ZlcnNoYWRv d3MgYW55IHVzZSBvZiB0aGUgc2FtZQotbmFtZSBvdXRzaWRlIHRoZSBAY29kZXtsZXR9IGV4 cHJlc3Npb24uICBUaGlzIGlzIGxpa2UgdW5kZXJzdGFuZGluZwotdGhhdCB3aGVuZXZlciB5 b3VyIGhvc3QgcmVmZXJzIHRvIGBgdGhlIGhvdXNlJycsIGhlIG1lYW5zIGhpcyBob3VzZSwg bm90Ci15b3Vycy4gIChTeW1ib2xzIHVzZWQgaW4gYXJndW1lbnQgbGlzdHMgd29yayB0aGUg c2FtZSB3YXkuCituYW1lIGZvciBhIEBkZm57bG9jYWwgdmFyaWFibGV9IHRoYXQgb3ZlcnJp ZGVzIGFueSB1c2Ugb2YgdGhlIHNhbWUKK25hbWUgb3V0c2lkZSB0aGUgQGNvZGV7bGV0fSBl eHByZXNzaW9uIChpbiBjb21wdXRlciBzY2llbmNlIGphcmdvbiwgd2UKK2NhbGwgdGhpcyBg YGJpbmRpbmcnJyB0aGUgdmFyaWFibGUpLiAgVGhpcyBpcyBsaWtlIHVuZGVyc3RhbmRpbmcg dGhhdAoraW4geW91ciBob3N0J3MgaG9tZSwgd2hlbmV2ZXIgaGUgcmVmZXJzIHRvIGBgdGhl IGhvdXNlJycsIGhlIG1lYW5zIGhpcworaG91c2UsIG5vdCB5b3Vycy4gIChTeW1ib2xzIHVz ZWQgaW4gYXJndW1lbnQgbGlzdHMgd29yayB0aGUgc2FtZSB3YXkuCiBAeHJlZntkZWZ1biwg LCBUaGUgQGNvZGV7ZGVmdW59IE1hY3JvfS4pCiAKLUxvY2FsIHZhcmlhYmxlcyBjcmVhdGVk IGJ5IGEgQGNvZGV7bGV0fSBleHByZXNzaW9uIHJldGFpbiB0aGVpciB2YWx1ZQotQGVtcGh7 b25seX0gd2l0aGluIHRoZSBAY29kZXtsZXR9IGV4cHJlc3Npb24gaXRzZWxmIChhbmQgd2l0 aGluCi1leHByZXNzaW9ucyBjYWxsZWQgd2l0aGluIHRoZSBAY29kZXtsZXR9IGV4cHJlc3Np b24pOyB0aGUgbG9jYWwKLXZhcmlhYmxlcyBoYXZlIG5vIGVmZmVjdCBvdXRzaWRlIHRoZSBA Y29kZXtsZXR9IGV4cHJlc3Npb24uCi0KLUFub3RoZXIgd2F5IHRvIHRoaW5rIGFib3V0IEBj b2Rle2xldH0gaXMgdGhhdCBpdCBpcyBsaWtlIGEgQGNvZGV7c2V0cX0KLXRoYXQgaXMgdGVt cG9yYXJ5IGFuZCBsb2NhbC4gIFRoZSB2YWx1ZXMgc2V0IGJ5IEBjb2Rle2xldH0gYXJlCi1h dXRvbWF0aWNhbGx5IHVuZG9uZSB3aGVuIHRoZSBAY29kZXtsZXR9IGlzIGZpbmlzaGVkLiAg VGhlIHNldHRpbmcKLW9ubHkgYWZmZWN0cyBleHByZXNzaW9ucyB0aGF0IGFyZSBpbnNpZGUg dGhlIGJvdW5kcyBvZiB0aGUgQGNvZGV7bGV0fQotZXhwcmVzc2lvbi4gIEluIGNvbXB1dGVy IHNjaWVuY2UgamFyZ29uLCB3ZSB3b3VsZCBzYXkgdGhlIGJpbmRpbmcgb2YKLWEgc3ltYm9s IGlzIHZpc2libGUgb25seSBpbiBmdW5jdGlvbnMgY2FsbGVkIGluIHRoZSBAY29kZXtsZXR9 IGZvcm07Ci1pbiBFbWFjcyBMaXNwLCB0aGUgZGVmYXVsdCBzY29waW5nIGlzIGR5bmFtaWMs IG5vdCBsZXhpY2FsLiAgKFRoZQotbm9uLWRlZmF1bHQgbGV4aWNhbCBiaW5kaW5nIGlzIG5v dCBkaXNjdXNzZWQgaW4gdGhpcyBtYW51YWwuKQorQW5vdGhlciB3YXkgdG8gdGhpbmsgYWJv dXQgQGNvZGV7bGV0fSBpcyB0aGF0IGl0IGRlZmluZXMgYSBwbGFjZSBpbgoreW91ciBjb2Rl IHdoZXJlIHRoZSB2YXJpYWJsZXMgeW91IG5hbWVkIGhhdmUgdGhlaXIgb3duIGxvY2FsIG1l YW5pbmcuCitPdXRzaWRlIG9mIHRoZSBAY29kZXtsZXR9IGJvZHksIHRoZXkgaGF2ZSBhbm90 aGVyIG1lYW5pbmcgKG9yIHRoZXkgbWF5Citub3QgYmUgZGVmaW5lZCBhdCBhbGwpLiAgVGhp cyBtZWFucyB0aGF0IGluc2lkZSB0aGUgQGNvZGV7bGV0fSBib2R5LAorY2FsbGluZyBAY29k ZXtzZXRxfSBmb3IgYSB2YXJpYWJsZSBuYW1lZCBieSB0aGUgQGNvZGV7bGV0fSBleHByZXNz aW9uCit3aWxsIHNldCB0aGUgdmFsdWUgb2YgdGhlIEBlbXBoe2xvY2FsfSB2YXJpYWJsZSBv ZiB0aGF0IG5hbWUuICBUaGlzCithbHNvIG1lYW5zIHRoYXQgb3V0c2lkZSBvZiB0aGUgQGNv ZGV7bGV0fSBib2R5LCBjYWxsaW5nIEBjb2Rle3NldHF9Citmb3IgYSB2YXJpYWJsZSBuYW1l ZCBieSB0aGUgQGNvZGV7bGV0fSBleHByZXNzaW9uIHdpbGwgQGVtcGh7bm90fQorYWZmZWN0 IHRoYXQgbG9jYWwgdmFyaWFibGUuCiAKIEBjb2Rle2xldH0gY2FuIGNyZWF0ZSBtb3JlIHRo YW4gb25lIHZhcmlhYmxlIGF0IG9uY2UuICBBbHNvLAogQGNvZGV7bGV0fSBnaXZlcyBlYWNo IHZhcmlhYmxlIGl0IGNyZWF0ZXMgYW4gaW5pdGlhbCB2YWx1ZSwgZWl0aGVyIGEKQEAgLTM3 NzksNiArMzc3Nyw4OSBAQCBVbmluaXRpYWxpemVkIGxldCBWYXJpYWJsZXMKIEBzYW1weyVz fS4pICBUaGUgZm91ciB2YXJpYWJsZXMgYXMgYSBncm91cCBhcmUgcHV0IGludG8gYSBsaXN0 IHRvCiBkZWxpbWl0IHRoZW0gZnJvbSB0aGUgYm9keSBvZiB0aGUgQGNvZGV7bGV0fS4KIAor QG5vZGUgSG93IGxldCBCaW5kcyBWYXJpYWJsZXMKK0BzdWJzZWN0aW9uIEhvdyBAY29kZXts ZXR9IEJpbmRzIFZhcmlhYmxlcworQGNpbmRleCBMZXhpY2FsIGJpbmRpbmcKK0BjaW5kZXgg QmluZGluZywgbGV4aWNhbAorQGNpbmRleCBEeW5hbWljIGJpbmRpbmcKK0BjaW5kZXggQmlu ZGluZywgZHluYW1pYworCitFbWFjcyBMaXNwIHN1cHBvcnRzIHR3byBkaWZmZXJlbnQgd2F5 cyBvZiBiaW5kaW5nIHZhcmlhYmxlIG5hbWVzIHRvCit0aGVpciB2YWx1ZXMuICBUaGVzZSB3 YXlzIGFmZmVjdCB0aGUgcGFydHMgb2YgeW91ciBwcm9ncmFtIHdoZXJlIGEKK3BhcnRpY3Vs YXIgYmluZGluZyBpcyB2YWxpZCAoaW4gY29tcHV0ZXIgc2NpZW5jZSBqYXJnb24sIHdlIGNh bGwgdGhlc2UKK3BhcnRzIGEgYGBzY29wZScnKS4gIEZvciBoaXN0b3JpY2FsIHJlYXNvbnMs IEVtYWNzIExpc3AgdXNlcyBhIGZvcm0gb2YKK3ZhcmlhYmxlIGJpbmRpbmcgY2FsbGVkIGBg ZHluYW1pYyBiaW5kaW5nJycgYnkgZGVmYXVsdC4gIEhvd2V2ZXIsIGluCit0aGlzIG1hbnVh bCB3ZSBkaXNjdXNzIHRoZSBwcmVmZXJyZWQgZm9ybSBvZiBiaW5kaW5nLCBjYWxsZWQgYGBs ZXhpY2FsCitiaW5kaW5nJycsIHVubGVzcyBvdGhlcndpc2Ugbm90ZWQgKGluIHRoZSBmdXR1 cmUsIHRoZSBFbWFjcworbWFpbnRhaW5lcnMgcGxhbiB0byBjaGFuZ2UgdGhlIGRlZmF1bHQg dG8gbGV4aWNhbCBiaW5kaW5nKS4gIElmIHlvdQoraGF2ZSBwcm9ncmFtbWVkIGluIG90aGVy IGxhbmd1YWdlcyBiZWZvcmUsIHlvdSdyZSBsaWtlbHkgYWxyZWFkeQorZmFtaWxpYXIgd2l0 aCBob3cgbGV4aWNhbCBiaW5kaW5nIGJlaGF2ZXMuCisKK0luIG9yZGVyIHRvIHVzZSBsZXhp Y2FsIGJpbmRpbmcgaW4gYSBwcm9ncmFtLCB5b3Ugc2hvdWxkIGFkZCB0aGlzIHRvCit0aGUg Zmlyc3QgbGluZSBvZiB5b3VyIEVtYWNzIExpc3AgZmlsZToKKworQGV4YW1wbGUKKzs7OyAt Ki0gbGV4aWNhbC1iaW5kaW5nOiB0IC0qLQorQGVuZCBleGFtcGxlCisKK0ZvciBtb3JlIGlu Zm9ybWF0aW9uIGFib3V0IHRoaXMsIEBweHJlZntTZWxlY3RpbmcgTGlzcCBEaWFsZWN0LCAs ICwKK2VsaXNwLCBUaGUgRW1hY3MgTGlzcCBSZWZlcmVuY2UgTWFudWFsfS4KKworQXMgd2Ug ZGlzY3Vzc2VkIGJlZm9yZSwgdW5kZXIgbGV4aWNhbCBiaW5kaW5nLCBAY29kZXtsZXR9IGRl ZmluZXMgYQorQGVtcGh7cGxhY2V9IGluIHlvdXIgY29kZSB3aGVyZSB0aGUgdmFyaWFibGVz IGhhdmUgdGhlaXIgb3duIGxvY2FsCittZWFuaW5nLiAgVW5kZXIgZHluYW1pYyBiaW5kaW5n LCB0aGUgcnVsZXMgYXJlIGRpZmZlcmVudDogaW5zdGVhZCwgeW91CithcmUgZGVmaW5pbmcg YSBAZW1waHt0aW1lfSBpbiB5b3VyIGNvZGUgd2hlbiB0aGUgdmFyaWFibGVzIGhhdmUgdGhl aXIKK293biBsb2NhbCBtZWFuaW5nLgorCitBbm90aGVyIHdheSB0byB0aGluayBhYm91dCBA Y29kZXtsZXR9IHdoZW4gdXNpbmcgZHluYW1pYyBiaW5kaW5nIGlzCit0aGF0IGl0IGlzIGxp a2UgYSBAY29kZXtzZXRxfSB0aGF0IGlzIHRlbXBvcmFyeSBhbmQgbG9jYWwuICBUaGUgdmFs dWVzCitzZXQgYnkgQGNvZGV7bGV0fSBhcmUgYXV0b21hdGljYWxseSB1bmRvbmUgd2hlbiB0 aGUgQGNvZGV7bGV0fSBpcworZmluaXNoZWQuICBUaGUgc2V0dGluZyBvbmx5IGFmZmVjdHMg ZXhwcmVzc2lvbnMgdGhhdCBhcmUgaW5zaWRlIHRoZQorYm91bmRzIG9mIHRoZSBAY29kZXts ZXR9IGV4cHJlc3Npb24uCisKK0luIHNvbWUgY2FzZXMsIGJvdGggbGV4aWNhbCBhbmQgZHlu YW1pYyBiaW5kaW5nIGJlaGF2ZSBpZGVudGljYWxseS4KK0hvd2V2ZXIsIGluIG90aGVyIGNh c2VzLCB0aGV5IGNhbiBjaGFuZ2UgdGhlIG1lYW5pbmcgb2YgeW91ciBwcm9ncmFtLgorRm9y IGV4YW1wbGUsIHVuZGVyIGxleGljYWwgYmluZGluZywgaWYgeW91IGNhbGwgYSBmdW5jdGlv biBpbnNpZGUgb2YgYQorQGNvZGV7bGV0fSBib2R5LCB0aGF0IGZ1bmN0aW9uJ3MgYm9keSB3 b3VsZCBiZSB1bmFibGUgdG8gYGBzZWUnJyAob3IKK21vZGlmeSkgdGhlIHZhbHVlIG9mIGEg bG9jYWwgdmFyaWFibGUgZnJvbSB0aGUgQGNvZGV7bGV0fSBleHByZXNzaW9uOgorCitAZXhh bXBsZQorOzs7IC0qLSBsZXhpY2FsLWJpbmRpbmc6IHQgLSotCisKKyhzZXRxIHggMSkKKwor KGRlZnVuIGdldHggKCkKKyAgeCkKKworKGxldCAoKHggMikpCisgIChnZXR4KSkKKyAgICAg QHJlc3VsdHt9IDEKK0BlbmQgZXhhbXBsZQorCitAbm9pbmRlbnQKK0lmIHdlIHVzZSBkeW5h bWljIGJpbmRpbmcgaW5zdGVhZCwgdGhlIGJlaGF2aW9yIGlzIGRpZmZlcmVudDoKKworQGV4 YW1wbGUKKzs7OyAtKi0gbGV4aWNhbC1iaW5kaW5nOiBuaWwgLSotCisKKyhzZXRxIHggMSkK KworKGRlZnVuIGdldHggKCkKKyAgeCkKKworKGxldCAoKHggMikpCisgIChnZXR4KSkKKyAg ICAgQHJlc3VsdHt9IDIKK0BlbmQgZXhhbXBsZQorCitOb3csIHRoZSByZXN1bHQgb2YgQHNh bXB7KGdldHgpfSBpcyBAc2FtcHsyfSEgIFRoYXQncyBiZWNhdXNlIHVuZGVyCitkeW5hbWlj IGJpbmRpbmcsIHdoZW4gQGNvZGV7Z2V0eH0gbG9va3MgZm9yIHRoZSB2YWx1ZSBvZiBAY29k ZXt4fSwgaXQKK3NlZXMgdGhlIHZhbHVlIHdlIHNldCBpbiBvdXIgQGNvZGV7bGV0fSBleHBy ZXNzaW9uLiAgSW4gb3RoZXIgd29yZHMsCit0aGUgY2FsbCB0byBAY29kZXtnZXR4fSBoYXBw ZW5zIGR1cmluZyB0aGUgQGVtcGh7dGltZX0gd2hlbiBvdXIKK0Bjb2Rle2xldH0gZXhwcmVz c2lvbiBpcyBhY3RpdmUuICBVbmRlciBsZXhpY2FsIGJpbmRpbmcsIEBjb2Rle2dldHh9Citk b2Vzbid0IHNlZSB0aGUgdmFsdWUgZnJvbSBvdXIgQGNvZGV7bGV0fSBleHByZXNzaW9uLiAg VGhhdCdzIGJlY2F1c2UKK2l0IGhhcHBlbnMgaW4gYSBkaWZmZXJlbnQgQGVtcGh7cGxhY2V9 IHRoYW4gdGhlIEBjb2Rle2xldH0gYm9keS4KKwogQG5vZGUgaWYKIEBzZWN0aW9uIFRoZSBA Y29kZXtpZn0gU3BlY2lhbCBGb3JtCiBAZmluZGV4IGlmCi0tIAoyLjI1LjEKCg== --------------u39TyNpGDhlethcqzINtvb0H--
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#66756; Package emacs.
Full text available.
Received: (at 66756) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Nov 2023 05:25:57 +0000
From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Nov 19 00:25:57 2023
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49752 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
id 1r4aJg-0000pe-RM
for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 19 Nov 2023 00:25:57 -0500
Received: from mail-oo1-xc2d.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::c2d]:57609)
by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
(envelope-from <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>) id 1r4aJa-0000pJ-7V
for 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 19 Nov 2023 00:25:55 -0500
Received: by mail-oo1-xc2d.google.com with SMTP id
006d021491bc7-58786e23d38so2100021eaf.3
for <66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 18 Nov 2023 21:25:48 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1700371543; x=1700976343; darn=debbugs.gnu.org;
h=in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to:content-language:subject
:mime-version:date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id
:reply-to; bh=DJHwToCv8+OIkkeHFm5DIUnjG/WHnnYnaRsXwmURpjE=;
b=WFeBiMtUDGughp/nSv+qkHXS1gAGSEgMG7dqBvW3cm6BPx2UTFbiAnsdrmYaa4dMt8
HwYabYcckMnTpSHn+KLlaB2LCa5rFinMViJR5WODjg9RCqizGJpkbH2lPfjIdKYNfZXt
hiUx3mjhlwYCUYgxfmxB7aMw6vKJZdGemVp24l+CWRLfZf6jiVtSRO+F8xKyXC6MDiyd
IzTL0FiWv93PthT9R+YPAQaHCpA4981ySxFc+b9KJ/BI3AGCIMGxiZ2ikQJYNFyIP9/N
XvpuOUcW7DMTPaH65XQ+5MW1zF1rMtMtclpaJ2NDBH9cdP3RwpGy6BGUHd6pQPTkeQ83
U46g==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1700371543; x=1700976343;
h=in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to:content-language:subject
:mime-version:date:message-id:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject
:date:message-id:reply-to;
bh=DJHwToCv8+OIkkeHFm5DIUnjG/WHnnYnaRsXwmURpjE=;
b=ZlbhaRuS+08LMVwMtNkJvMpf+dDAGd8KwBhsjm68AtWLrW7aeZAS/C6FWNx5rgOmEL
G14O2gaS8N96BAjO/1trztXisRuMfm0k4GfJ4TIphSXzJkuoV3HVxMISRj64IWil5efv
aJnVSuHEUgWfQUI3DbRWFb55FK3uHTMMdkGMZ92n1ZSGnyRTZVl6GHseXk0EDkdl61Rk
7mlKu6rh0802tTqRA+xX79aYXsrA5il30K3GY7pWiYDGKGB2TWsqtUGpunkRq6ZBI+Av
uq/eon30tiSF1ddSsXlTef6X+eNgdu97ATob43O4eaGkpOEWESKnVIfx5ZkMEk4PWfeH
m4ww==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yw7lh4BWzcVisSml83VLvKcQS9QiFna4RAGdlwYGP3TK0Ngm6EP
OYpJrj0Gh9ZTD6LueOta328=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEHUEXPFbyqQXbvQ+YFObbwCR0F0MGh67A70C7qDih21MCTOKnM88tkac3up8p+on6l+FnBFg==
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6358:709:b0:168:e7ab:6877 with SMTP id
e9-20020a056358070900b00168e7ab6877mr4540099rwj.6.1700371543049;
Sat, 18 Nov 2023 21:25:43 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [192.168.1.2] (cpe-76-168-148-233.socal.res.rr.com.
[76.168.148.233]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id
p18-20020a63fe12000000b0058988954686sm3783753pgh.90.2023.11.18.21.25.42
(version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128);
Sat, 18 Nov 2023 21:25:42 -0800 (PST)
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------XQdsTGiwCBg1kuAdtZ080FQu"
Message-ID: <381836df-c16f-b3e7-d0c4-473290e165de@HIDDEN>
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2023 21:25:42 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Subject: Re: bug#66756: 30.0.50; [PATCH] Improve discussion of 'let' in Elisp
Introduction manual
Content-Language: en-US
To: rms@HIDDEN
References: <a9812c1d-71e4-5f3f-83a4-a2923e649f3a@HIDDEN>
<a5120e2f-b008-1b74-1ad9-3fe7d861b13c@HIDDEN>
<E1qx8nq-0007DY-HV@HIDDEN>
<3ade119d-0f0d-e60e-1bdc-9c7e02c1559c@HIDDEN>
<E1r4YeF-0001fe-Ex@HIDDEN>
From: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <E1r4YeF-0001fe-Ex@HIDDEN>
X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/)
X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66756
Cc: eliz@HIDDEN, 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>,
<mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>,
<mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-)
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------XQdsTGiwCBg1kuAdtZ080FQu
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
On 11/18/2023 7:39 PM, Richard Stallman wrote:
> > +parts a ``scope''). For historical reasons, Emacs Lisp uses a form of
> > +variable binding called ``dynamic binding'' by default. However, in
> > +this manual, we discuss the preferred form of binding, called
> > +``lexical binding'' (if you have programmed in other languages before,
> > +you're likely already familiar with how lexical binding behaves). In
> > +order to use lexical binding in a program, you should add this to the
> > +first line of your Emacs Lisp file:
> > +
> > +@example
> > +;;; -*- lexical-binding: t -*-
> > +@end example
> > +
> > +For more information about this, @pxref{Selecting Lisp Dialect, , ,
> > +elisp, The Emacs Lisp Reference Manual}.
>
> Do we want to change the default some day to lexical binding:? If so,
> we should say so somewhere in this manual -- perhaps here, perhaps
> elsewhere,
I believe that's the goal, yes. I've added a note that the maintainers
eventually plan on making lexical binding the default.
> > +If we instead change @code{lexical-binding} to have a value of
> > +@code{nil}, we will get a different result here.
>
> "Get a different result" is vague -- it would be clearer if it said
> concretely what will happen.
>
> I suggest you show the dynamci situation in the same way you show the lexical
> situation. That will help people compare the two.
Done. I've also expanded the prose explanation at the end in order to
re-emphasize the differences between the two.
--------------XQdsTGiwCBg1kuAdtZ080FQu
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8;
name="0001-Introduce-let-using-lexical-binding-in-the-Lisp-Intr.patch"
Content-Disposition: attachment;
filename*0="0001-Introduce-let-using-lexical-binding-in-the-Lisp-Intr.pa";
filename*1="tch"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
RnJvbSBmODA1ZWJmNjVkYzIxOGM3YWU2MzI1MWEzNTdhNGRlYWFmNDVkNzUyIE1vbiBTZXAg
MTcgMDA6MDA6MDAgMjAwMQpGcm9tOiBKaW0gUG9ydGVyIDxqcG9ydGVyYnVnc0BnbWFpbC5j
b20+CkRhdGU6IFdlZCwgMjUgT2N0IDIwMjMgMjA6NDM6NTcgLTA3MDAKU3ViamVjdDogW1BB
VENIXSBJbnRyb2R1Y2UgJ2xldCcgdXNpbmcgbGV4aWNhbCBiaW5kaW5nIGluIHRoZSBMaXNw
CiBJbnRyb2R1Y3Rpb24KCkJ1ZyM2Njc1Ni4KCiogZG9jL2xpc3BpbnRyby9lbWFjcy1saXNw
LWludHJvLnRleGkgKFByZXZlbnQgY29uZnVzaW9uKTogUmV3b3JrIHRoZQpleHBsYW5hdGlv
biB0byBkaXNjdXNzIGhvdyB0aGluZ3Mgd29yayB1bmRlciBsZXhpY2FsIGJpbmRpbmcuCihI
b3cgbGV0IEJpbmRzIFZhcmlhYmxlcyk6IERlc2NyaWJlIHRoZSBkaWZmZXJlbmNlcyBiZXR3
ZWVuIGxleGljYWwKYW5kIGR5bmFtaWMgYmluZGluZyAoaW5jbHVkaW5nIGhvdyB0byBjb25m
aWd1cmUgaXQpLgotLS0KIGRvYy9saXNwaW50cm8vZW1hY3MtbGlzcC1pbnRyby50ZXhpIHwg
MTE1ICsrKysrKysrKysrKysrKysrKysrKysrKy0tLS0KIDEgZmlsZSBjaGFuZ2VkLCA5OCBp
bnNlcnRpb25zKCspLCAxNyBkZWxldGlvbnMoLSkKCmRpZmYgLS1naXQgYS9kb2MvbGlzcGlu
dHJvL2VtYWNzLWxpc3AtaW50cm8udGV4aSBiL2RvYy9saXNwaW50cm8vZW1hY3MtbGlzcC1p
bnRyby50ZXhpCmluZGV4IGM1YjMzYWM1ZWFhLi41NTRiYTRhNzU2MCAxMDA2NDQKLS0tIGEv
ZG9jL2xpc3BpbnRyby9lbWFjcy1saXNwLWludHJvLnRleGkKKysrIGIvZG9jL2xpc3BpbnRy
by9lbWFjcy1saXNwLWludHJvLnRleGkKQEAgLTM1OTEsNiArMzU5MSw3IEBAIGxldAogKiBQ
YXJ0cyBvZiBsZXQgRXhwcmVzc2lvbjo6CiAqIFNhbXBsZSBsZXQgRXhwcmVzc2lvbjo6CiAq
IFVuaW5pdGlhbGl6ZWQgbGV0IFZhcmlhYmxlczo6CisqIEhvdyBsZXQgQmluZHMgVmFyaWFi
bGVzOjoKIEBlbmQgbWVudQogCiBAaWZub3R0ZXgKQEAgLTM2MDEsMjUgKzM2MDIsMjIgQEAg
UHJldmVudCBjb25mdXNpb24KIEBjaW5kZXggQHNhbXB7bG9jYWwgdmFyaWFibGV9IGRlZmlu
ZWQKIEBjaW5kZXggQHNhbXB7dmFyaWFibGUsIGxvY2FsfSwgZGVmaW5lZAogVGhlIEBjb2Rl
e2xldH0gc3BlY2lhbCBmb3JtIHByZXZlbnRzIGNvbmZ1c2lvbi4gIEBjb2Rle2xldH0gY3Jl
YXRlcyBhCi1uYW1lIGZvciBhIEBkZm57bG9jYWwgdmFyaWFibGV9IHRoYXQgb3ZlcnNoYWRv
d3MgYW55IHVzZSBvZiB0aGUgc2FtZQotbmFtZSBvdXRzaWRlIHRoZSBAY29kZXtsZXR9IGV4
cHJlc3Npb24uICBUaGlzIGlzIGxpa2UgdW5kZXJzdGFuZGluZwotdGhhdCB3aGVuZXZlciB5
b3VyIGhvc3QgcmVmZXJzIHRvIGBgdGhlIGhvdXNlJycsIGhlIG1lYW5zIGhpcyBob3VzZSwg
bm90Ci15b3Vycy4gIChTeW1ib2xzIHVzZWQgaW4gYXJndW1lbnQgbGlzdHMgd29yayB0aGUg
c2FtZSB3YXkuCituYW1lIGZvciBhIEBkZm57bG9jYWwgdmFyaWFibGV9IHRoYXQgb3ZlcnJp
ZGVzIGFueSB1c2Ugb2YgdGhlIHNhbWUKK25hbWUgb3V0c2lkZSB0aGUgQGNvZGV7bGV0fSBl
eHByZXNzaW9uIChpbiBjb21wdXRlciBzY2llbmNlIGphcmdvbiwgd2UKK2NhbGwgdGhpcyBg
YGJpbmRpbmcnJyB0aGUgdmFyaWFibGUpLiAgVGhpcyBpcyBsaWtlIHVuZGVyc3RhbmRpbmcg
dGhhdAoraW4geW91ciBob3N0J3MgaG9tZSwgd2hlbmV2ZXIgaGUgcmVmZXJzIHRvIGBgdGhl
IGhvdXNlJycsIGhlIG1lYW5zIGhpcworaG91c2UsIG5vdCB5b3Vycy4gIChTeW1ib2xzIHVz
ZWQgaW4gYXJndW1lbnQgbGlzdHMgd29yayB0aGUgc2FtZSB3YXkuCiBAeHJlZntkZWZ1biwg
LCBUaGUgQGNvZGV7ZGVmdW59IE1hY3JvfS4pCiAKLUxvY2FsIHZhcmlhYmxlcyBjcmVhdGVk
IGJ5IGEgQGNvZGV7bGV0fSBleHByZXNzaW9uIHJldGFpbiB0aGVpciB2YWx1ZQotQGVtcGh7
b25seX0gd2l0aGluIHRoZSBAY29kZXtsZXR9IGV4cHJlc3Npb24gaXRzZWxmIChhbmQgd2l0
aGluCi1leHByZXNzaW9ucyBjYWxsZWQgd2l0aGluIHRoZSBAY29kZXtsZXR9IGV4cHJlc3Np
b24pOyB0aGUgbG9jYWwKLXZhcmlhYmxlcyBoYXZlIG5vIGVmZmVjdCBvdXRzaWRlIHRoZSBA
Y29kZXtsZXR9IGV4cHJlc3Npb24uCi0KLUFub3RoZXIgd2F5IHRvIHRoaW5rIGFib3V0IEBj
b2Rle2xldH0gaXMgdGhhdCBpdCBpcyBsaWtlIGEgQGNvZGV7c2V0cX0KLXRoYXQgaXMgdGVt
cG9yYXJ5IGFuZCBsb2NhbC4gIFRoZSB2YWx1ZXMgc2V0IGJ5IEBjb2Rle2xldH0gYXJlCi1h
dXRvbWF0aWNhbGx5IHVuZG9uZSB3aGVuIHRoZSBAY29kZXtsZXR9IGlzIGZpbmlzaGVkLiAg
VGhlIHNldHRpbmcKLW9ubHkgYWZmZWN0cyBleHByZXNzaW9ucyB0aGF0IGFyZSBpbnNpZGUg
dGhlIGJvdW5kcyBvZiB0aGUgQGNvZGV7bGV0fQotZXhwcmVzc2lvbi4gIEluIGNvbXB1dGVy
IHNjaWVuY2UgamFyZ29uLCB3ZSB3b3VsZCBzYXkgdGhlIGJpbmRpbmcgb2YKLWEgc3ltYm9s
IGlzIHZpc2libGUgb25seSBpbiBmdW5jdGlvbnMgY2FsbGVkIGluIHRoZSBAY29kZXtsZXR9
IGZvcm07Ci1pbiBFbWFjcyBMaXNwLCB0aGUgZGVmYXVsdCBzY29waW5nIGlzIGR5bmFtaWMs
IG5vdCBsZXhpY2FsLiAgKFRoZQotbm9uLWRlZmF1bHQgbGV4aWNhbCBiaW5kaW5nIGlzIG5v
dCBkaXNjdXNzZWQgaW4gdGhpcyBtYW51YWwuKQorQW5vdGhlciB3YXkgdG8gdGhpbmsgYWJv
dXQgQGNvZGV7bGV0fSBpcyB0aGF0IGl0IGRlZmluZXMgYSBwbGFjZSBpbgoreW91ciBjb2Rl
IHdoZXJlIHRoZSB2YXJpYWJsZXMgeW91IG5hbWVkIGhhdmUgdGhlaXIgb3duIGxvY2FsIG1l
YW5pbmcuCitPdXRzaWRlIG9mIHRoZSBAY29kZXtsZXR9IGJvZHksIHRoZXkgaGF2ZSBhbm90
aGVyIG1lYW5pbmcgKG9yIHRoZXkgbWF5Citub3QgYmUgZGVmaW5lZCBhdCBhbGwpLiAgVGhp
cyBtZWFucyB0aGF0IGluc2lkZSB0aGUgQGNvZGV7bGV0fSBib2R5LAorY2FsbGluZyBAY29k
ZXtzZXRxfSBmb3IgYSB2YXJpYWJsZSBuYW1lZCBieSB0aGUgQGNvZGV7bGV0fSBleHByZXNz
aW9uCit3aWxsIHNldCB0aGUgdmFsdWUgb2YgdGhlIEBlbXBoe2xvY2FsfSB2YXJpYWJsZSBv
ZiB0aGF0IG5hbWUuICBUaGlzCithbHNvIG1lYW5zIHRoYXQgb3V0c2lkZSBvZiB0aGUgQGNv
ZGV7bGV0fSBib2R5LCBjYWxsaW5nIEBjb2Rle3NldHF9Citmb3IgYSB2YXJpYWJsZSBuYW1l
ZCBieSB0aGUgQGNvZGV7bGV0fSBleHByZXNzaW9uIHdpbGwgQGVtcGh7bm90fQorYWZmZWN0
IHRoYXQgbG9jYWwgdmFyaWFibGUuCiAKIEBjb2Rle2xldH0gY2FuIGNyZWF0ZSBtb3JlIHRo
YW4gb25lIHZhcmlhYmxlIGF0IG9uY2UuICBBbHNvLAogQGNvZGV7bGV0fSBnaXZlcyBlYWNo
IHZhcmlhYmxlIGl0IGNyZWF0ZXMgYW4gaW5pdGlhbCB2YWx1ZSwgZWl0aGVyIGEKQEAgLTM3
NzksNiArMzc3Nyw4OSBAQCBVbmluaXRpYWxpemVkIGxldCBWYXJpYWJsZXMKIEBzYW1weyVz
fS4pICBUaGUgZm91ciB2YXJpYWJsZXMgYXMgYSBncm91cCBhcmUgcHV0IGludG8gYSBsaXN0
IHRvCiBkZWxpbWl0IHRoZW0gZnJvbSB0aGUgYm9keSBvZiB0aGUgQGNvZGV7bGV0fS4KIAor
QG5vZGUgSG93IGxldCBCaW5kcyBWYXJpYWJsZXMKK0BzdWJzZWN0aW9uIEhvdyBAY29kZXts
ZXR9IEJpbmRzIFZhcmlhYmxlcworQGNpbmRleCBMZXhpY2FsIGJpbmRpbmcKK0BjaW5kZXgg
QmluZGluZywgbGV4aWNhbAorQGNpbmRleCBEeW5hbWljIGJpbmRpbmcKK0BjaW5kZXggQmlu
ZGluZywgZHluYW1pYworCitFbWFjcyBMaXNwIHN1cHBvcnRzIHR3byBkaWZmZXJlbnQgd2F5
cyBvZiBiaW5kaW5nIHZhcmlhYmxlIG5hbWVzIHRvCit0aGVpciB2YWx1ZXMuICBUaGVzZSB3
YXlzIGFmZmVjdCB0aGUgcGFydHMgb2YgeW91ciBwcm9ncmFtIHdoZXJlIGEKK3BhcnRpY3Vs
YXIgYmluZGluZyBpcyB2YWxpZCAoaW4gY29tcHV0ZXIgc2NpZW5jZSBqYXJnb24sIHdlIGNh
bGwgdGhlc2UKK3BhcnRzIGEgYGBzY29wZScnKS4gIEZvciBoaXN0b3JpY2FsIHJlYXNvbnMs
IEVtYWNzIExpc3AgdXNlcyBhIGZvcm0gb2YKK3ZhcmlhYmxlIGJpbmRpbmcgY2FsbGVkIGBg
ZHluYW1pYyBiaW5kaW5nJycgYnkgZGVmYXVsdC4gIEhvd2V2ZXIsIGluCit0aGlzIG1hbnVh
bCwgd2UgcHJpbWFyaWx5IGRpc2N1c3MgdGhlIHByZWZlcnJlZCBmb3JtIG9mIGJpbmRpbmcs
CitjYWxsZWQgYGBsZXhpY2FsIGJpbmRpbmcnJyB1bmxlc3Mgb3RoZXJ3aXNlIG5vdGVkIChp
biB0aGUgZnV0dXJlLCB0aGUKK0VtYWNzIG1haW50YWluZXJzIHBsYW4gdG8gY2hhbmdlIHRo
ZSBkZWZhdWx0IHRvIGxleGljYWwgYmluZGluZykuICBJZgoreW91IGhhdmUgcHJvZ3JhbW1l
ZCBpbiBvdGhlciBsYW5ndWFnZXMgYmVmb3JlLCB5b3UncmUgbGlrZWx5IGFscmVhZHkKK2Zh
bWlsaWFyIHdpdGggaG93IGxleGljYWwgYmluZGluZyBiZWhhdmVzLgorCitJbiBvcmRlciB0
byB1c2UgbGV4aWNhbCBiaW5kaW5nIGluIGEgcHJvZ3JhbSwgeW91IHNob3VsZCBhZGQgdGhp
cyB0bwordGhlIGZpcnN0IGxpbmUgb2YgeW91ciBFbWFjcyBMaXNwIGZpbGU6CisKK0BleGFt
cGxlCis7OzsgLSotIGxleGljYWwtYmluZGluZzogdCAtKi0KK0BlbmQgZXhhbXBsZQorCitG
b3IgbW9yZSBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbiBhYm91dCB0aGlzLCBAcHhyZWZ7U2VsZWN0aW5nIExpc3Ag
RGlhbGVjdCwgLCAsCitlbGlzcCwgVGhlIEVtYWNzIExpc3AgUmVmZXJlbmNlIE1hbnVhbH0u
CisKK0FzIHdlIGRpc2N1c3NlZCBiZWZvcmUsIHVuZGVyIGxleGljYWwgYmluZGluZywgQGNv
ZGV7bGV0fSBkZWZpbmVzIGEKK0BlbXBoe3BsYWNlfSBpbiB5b3VyIGNvZGUgd2hlcmUgdGhl
IHZhcmlhYmxlcyBoYXZlIHRoZWlyIG93biBsb2NhbAorbWVhbmluZy4gIFVuZGVyIGR5bmFt
aWMgYmluZGluZywgdGhlIHJ1bGVzIGFyZSBkaWZmZXJlbnQ6IGluc3RlYWQsIHlvdQorYXJl
IGRlZmluaW5nIGEgQGVtcGh7dGltZX0gaW4geW91ciBjb2RlIHdoZW4gdGhlIHZhcmlhYmxl
cyBoYXZlIHRoZWlyCitvd24gbG9jYWwgbWVhbmluZy4KKworQW5vdGhlciB3YXkgdG8gdGhp
bmsgYWJvdXQgQGNvZGV7bGV0fSB3aGVuIHVzaW5nIGR5bmFtaWMgYmluZGluZyBpcwordGhh
dCBpdCBpcyBsaWtlIGEgQGNvZGV7c2V0cX0gdGhhdCBpcyB0ZW1wb3JhcnkgYW5kIGxvY2Fs
LiAgVGhlIHZhbHVlcworc2V0IGJ5IEBjb2Rle2xldH0gYXJlIGF1dG9tYXRpY2FsbHkgdW5k
b25lIHdoZW4gdGhlIEBjb2Rle2xldH0gaXMKK2ZpbmlzaGVkLiAgVGhlIHNldHRpbmcgb25s
eSBhZmZlY3RzIGV4cHJlc3Npb25zIHRoYXQgYXJlIGluc2lkZSB0aGUKK2JvdW5kcyBvZiB0
aGUgQGNvZGV7bGV0fSBleHByZXNzaW9uLgorCitJbiBzb21lIGNhc2VzLCBib3RoIGxleGlj
YWwgYW5kIGR5bmFtaWMgYmluZGluZyBiZWhhdmUgaWRlbnRpY2FsbHkuCitIb3dldmVyLCBp
biBvdGhlciBjYXNlcywgdGhleSBjYW4gY2hhbmdlIHRoZSBtZWFuaW5nIG9mIHlvdXIgcHJv
Z3JhbS4KK0ZvciBleGFtcGxlLCB1bmRlciBsZXhpY2FsIGJpbmRpbmcsIGlmIHlvdSBjYWxs
IGEgZnVuY3Rpb24gaW5zaWRlIG9mIGEKK0Bjb2Rle2xldH0gYm9keSwgdGhhdCBmdW5jdGlv
bidzIGJvZHkgd291bGQgYmUgdW5hYmxlIHRvIGBgc2VlJycgKG9yCittb2RpZnkpIHRoZSB2
YWx1ZSBvZiBhIGxvY2FsIHZhcmlhYmxlIGZyb20gdGhlIEBjb2Rle2xldH0gZXhwcmVzc2lv
bjoKKworQGV4YW1wbGUKKzs7OyAtKi0gbGV4aWNhbC1iaW5kaW5nOiB0IC0qLQorCisoc2V0
cSB4IDEpCisKKyhkZWZ1biBnZXR4ICgpCisgIHgpCisKKyhsZXQgKCh4IDIpKQorICAoZ2V0
eCkpCisgICAgIEByZXN1bHR7fSAxCitAZW5kIGV4YW1wbGUKKworQG5vaW5kZW50CitJZiB3
ZSB1c2UgZHluYW1pYyBiaW5kaW5nIGluc3RlYWQsIHRoZSBiZWhhdmlvciBpcyBkaWZmZXJl
bnQ6CisKK0BleGFtcGxlCis7OzsgLSotIGxleGljYWwtYmluZGluZzogbmlsIC0qLQorCiso
c2V0cSB4IDEpCisKKyhkZWZ1biBnZXR4ICgpCisgIHgpCisKKyhsZXQgKCh4IDIpKQorICAo
Z2V0eCkpCisgICAgIEByZXN1bHR7fSAyCitAZW5kIGV4YW1wbGUKKworTm93LCB0aGUgcmVz
dWx0IG9mIEBzYW1weyhnZXR4KX0gaXMgQHNhbXB7Mn0hICBUaGF0J3MgYmVjYXVzZSB1bmRl
cgorZHluYW1pYyBiaW5kaW5nLCB3aGVuIEBjb2Rle2dldHh9IGxvb2tzIGZvciB0aGUgdmFs
dWUgb2YgQGNvZGV7eH0sIGl0CitzZWVzIHRoZSB2YWx1ZSB3ZSBzZXQgaW4gb3VyIEBjb2Rl
e2xldH0gZXhwcmVzc2lvbi4gIEluIG90aGVyIHdvcmRzLAordGhlIGNhbGwgdG8gQGNvZGV7
Z2V0eH0gaGFwcGVucyBkdXJpbmcgdGhlIEBlbXBoe3RpbWV9IHdoZW4gb3VyCitAY29kZXts
ZXR9IGV4cHJlc3Npb24gaXMgYWN0aXZlLiAgVW5kZXIgbGV4aWNhbCBiaW5kaW5nLCBAY29k
ZXtnZXR4fQorZG9lc24ndCBzZWUgdGhlIHZhbHVlIGZyb20gb3VyIEBjb2Rle2xldH0gZXhw
cmVzc2lvbi4gIFRoYXQncyBiZWNhdXNlCitpdCBoYXBwZW5zIGluIGEgZGlmZmVyZW50IEBl
bXBoe3BsYWNlfSB0aGFuIHRoZSBAY29kZXtsZXR9IGJvZHkuCisKIEBub2RlIGlmCiBAc2Vj
dGlvbiBUaGUgQGNvZGV7aWZ9IFNwZWNpYWwgRm9ybQogQGZpbmRleCBpZgotLSAKMi4yNS4x
Cgo=
--------------XQdsTGiwCBg1kuAdtZ080FQu--
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#66756; Package emacs.
Full text available.
Received: (at 66756) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Nov 2023 03:39:16 +0000
From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Nov 18 22:39:16 2023
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49709 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
id 1r4YeS-0006Nv-96
for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 18 Nov 2023 22:39:16 -0500
Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:45906)
by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
(envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1r4YeP-0006Ng-Np
for 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 18 Nov 2023 22:39:14 -0500
Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e])
by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256)
(Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>)
id 1r4YeJ-00009g-4M; Sat, 18 Nov 2023 22:39:07 -0500
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org;
s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:
mime-version; bh=PuH/zNKQuONtt6o4IiolQrlIG2AsQSznZmnIALvR3Co=; b=oWiVr6lnUWkx
raZLwbePaeJ4aSA4c+JxGj0sYuW5Lzd9SDIGwGikpNp3RDyLhNj2ihPBncMkOROCuM50MypS3CfsJ
ExmmZG1whWkUKSD693UQFnf+5ZrK9YoKfJqYi+bab/DbyNWVcYLEwVLL3u2rJO8dtZSo7fjVO5EDx
HlH165bslJlyqx3qEh8vh9DFi4hD7pg78l6yCJlRn6htCDpLk5o6/2BDNmY+RAjRMx3cCTaLXkWL8
Vt4hx6hO4DNEWNDT8NSbMl71oC0WUP1n020UVkSNrXyQQokOa1gPcllHaS2N0JfGcY+pTZ++vDbzy
+hi2LLcQD3XInGp8fcc97A==;
Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1)
(envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>)
id 1r4YeF-0001fe-Ex; Sat, 18 Nov 2023 22:39:04 -0500
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8
From: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN>
To: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <3ade119d-0f0d-e60e-1bdc-9c7e02c1559c@HIDDEN> (message from
Jim Porter on Fri, 17 Nov 2023 18:09:20 -0800)
Subject: Re: bug#66756: 30.0.50; [PATCH] Improve discussion of 'let' in Elisp
Introduction manual
References: <a9812c1d-71e4-5f3f-83a4-a2923e649f3a@HIDDEN>
<a5120e2f-b008-1b74-1ad9-3fe7d861b13c@HIDDEN>
<E1qx8nq-0007DY-HV@HIDDEN>
<3ade119d-0f0d-e60e-1bdc-9c7e02c1559c@HIDDEN>
Message-Id: <E1r4YeF-0001fe-Ex@HIDDEN>
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2023 22:39:03 -0500
X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--)
X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66756
Cc: eliz@HIDDEN, 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>,
<mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>,
<mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Reply-To: rms@HIDDEN
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---)
[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
I think your changes are good.
> +parts a ``scope''). For historical reasons, Emacs Lisp uses a form of
> +variable binding called ``dynamic binding'' by default. However, in
> +this manual, we discuss the preferred form of binding, called
> +``lexical binding'' (if you have programmed in other languages before,
> +you're likely already familiar with how lexical binding behaves). In
> +order to use lexical binding in a program, you should add this to the
> +first line of your Emacs Lisp file:
> +
> +@example
> +;;; -*- lexical-binding: t -*-
> +@end example
> +
> +For more information about this, @pxref{Selecting Lisp Dialect, , ,
> +elisp, The Emacs Lisp Reference Manual}.
Do we want to change the default some day to lexical binding:? If so,
we should say so somewhere in this manual -- perhaps here, perhaps
elsewhere,
> +If we instead change @code{lexical-binding} to have a value of
> +@code{nil}, we will get a different result here.
"Get a different result" is vague -- it would be clearer if it said
concretely what will happen.
I suggest you show the dynamci situation in the same way you show the lexical
situation. That will help people compare the two.
--
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#66756; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 66756) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Nov 2023 02:09:34 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Nov 17 21:09:34 2023 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47357 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1r4Am5-0004aW-L7 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 17 Nov 2023 21:09:34 -0500 Received: from mail-pj1-x102a.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::102a]:45229) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>) id 1r4Am0-0004aF-OX for 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 17 Nov 2023 21:09:32 -0500 Received: by mail-pj1-x102a.google.com with SMTP id 98e67ed59e1d1-280165bba25so2051919a91.2 for <66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 17 Nov 2023 18:09:28 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1700273362; x=1700878162; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to:content-language:subject :mime-version:date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=+e6TBqxAZ9QtGaZOIhe6g9/4ebXG46sXCkGwUelZtlk=; b=AgsxcYImy8cFNtqy9i5yiZt112WjZNEHAbpNkti+D42s/VuVK7+5POOPFD+t9LJJgV FR/+AHPD012umZmNWzlPelNp+WMiysPYozSajYpHDXGyzGrR5URKyooP+5a4FqAiMheM w8pdr8EpppUncsobssuNjjD7YbV66iio9qJcBUETl4EG+RBKwdZ50T77Q8Xtr+VkazR9 EHMxRn9nQ5zUR/ong2LtbMYt3sSJN1jGDpFsOnZIfFOEsAvQwAEnUOpz9+MNwF/8Sv8X o5DdIttYOpG3M1SrfJI/P4yPgC91Cc/o07b58qjD9I2agGj5BQv0j0Jr7CZrHOvgRn8o Ru7w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1700273362; x=1700878162; h=in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to:content-language:subject :mime-version:date:message-id:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject :date:message-id:reply-to; bh=+e6TBqxAZ9QtGaZOIhe6g9/4ebXG46sXCkGwUelZtlk=; b=WxpV+KtBsSXpig4ccCXufVZRfR7QYBDbP7CXxaGJ7tPcqv7tppF3qSlgQ/WQvE7ZLn bkpR/ORFuI+OSuVNj8xmbgoAAHXax0ACZUqF0iLEuTwbPP0SNWtvpPX3+AI5pl9vhG0V x6pS/Kn35oz1H6oFXDQwvvj+tZv/AMXtNoKGdp6L3cwkXA8PuT8fs1HLOphogWuDiNi9 uFaDGj2WNk1Lz+MXK3eTVbf+II+SNdq0LMVuP4WAmG6mO/uEBdCdY9m15UqwIgWiM7F4 smOeLSvpCSGio2WWDlZ/2NmstU82w4OyowUV5gCMijZbYiIn48e8B+F+hCS/c2fkDWm+ kTCQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwZFM+gTvgkgt08a84rC/uupprMN41vzW9aNzupATBOYk6Cs3/F pilCyRMdJ1NC0v7dSdAXveY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEb7p5+2b/+ynSQ7aORh88fSsTza0d6lgtDb/ArSQgpFTUr6YFxvnxUxU588H7cQz0AFdTlBA== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:142:b0:280:699:c5c with SMTP id z2-20020a17090a014200b0028006990c5cmr1401804pje.21.1700273362057; Fri, 17 Nov 2023 18:09:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (cpe-76-168-148-233.socal.res.rr.com. [76.168.148.233]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id 23-20020a17090a19d700b002805740d668sm4214736pjj.4.2023.11.17.18.09.20 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 17 Nov 2023 18:09:21 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------c0q4k8B0P0JpPPo3JFZoCO0V" Message-ID: <3ade119d-0f0d-e60e-1bdc-9c7e02c1559c@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2023 18:09:20 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: bug#66756: 30.0.50; [PATCH] Improve discussion of 'let' in Elisp Introduction manual Content-Language: en-US To: rms@HIDDEN References: <a9812c1d-71e4-5f3f-83a4-a2923e649f3a@HIDDEN> <a5120e2f-b008-1b74-1ad9-3fe7d861b13c@HIDDEN> <E1qx8nq-0007DY-HV@HIDDEN> From: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <E1qx8nq-0007DY-HV@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66756 Cc: eliz@HIDDEN, 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------c0q4k8B0P0JpPPo3JFZoCO0V Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 10/29/2023 9:38 AM, Richard Stallman wrote: > So perhaps it is possible for the first few sections to use examples > which work the same in lexical mode and dynamic mode, THEN show an > example for which it does make a difference as a way to explain the > two modes. It took a bit longer for me to get back to this than I had hoped, but here's an updated patch. I've added a new subsection to the end that describes lexical vs dynamic binding, and tried to keep the "let Prevents Confusion" section as similar in spirit as I could to the original, while still updating the parts that change under lexical binding. --------------c0q4k8B0P0JpPPo3JFZoCO0V Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; name="0001-Introduce-let-using-lexical-binding-in-the-Lisp-Intr.patch" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename*0="0001-Introduce-let-using-lexical-binding-in-the-Lisp-Intr.pa"; filename*1="tch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 RnJvbSBjOTcyYjBmYmY1MmViMzNlY2ViMmI2NTQ3YmU0MThlNmU2NGJjMWY3IE1vbiBTZXAg MTcgMDA6MDA6MDAgMjAwMQpGcm9tOiBKaW0gUG9ydGVyIDxqcG9ydGVyYnVnc0BnbWFpbC5j b20+CkRhdGU6IFdlZCwgMjUgT2N0IDIwMjMgMjA6NDM6NTcgLTA3MDAKU3ViamVjdDogW1BB VENIXSBJbnRyb2R1Y2UgJ2xldCcgdXNpbmcgbGV4aWNhbCBiaW5kaW5nIGluIHRoZSBMaXNw CiBJbnRyb2R1Y3Rpb24KCkJ1ZyM2Njc1Ni4KCiogZG9jL2xpc3BpbnRyby9lbWFjcy1saXNw LWludHJvLnRleGkgKFByZXZlbnQgY29uZnVzaW9uKTogUmV3b3JrIHRoZQpleHBsYW5hdGlv biB0byBkaXNjdXNzIGhvdyB0aGluZ3Mgd29yayB1bmRlciBsZXhpY2FsIGJpbmRpbmcuCihI b3cgbGV0IEJpbmRzIFZhcmlhYmxlcyk6IERlc2NyaWJlIHRoZSBkaWZmZXJlbmNlcyBiZXR3 ZWVuIGxleGljYWwKYW5kIGR5bmFtaWMgYmluZGluZyAoaW5jbHVkaW5nIGhvdyB0byBjb25m aWd1cmUgaXQpLgotLS0KIGRvYy9saXNwaW50cm8vZW1hY3MtbGlzcC1pbnRyby50ZXhpIHwg OTUgKysrKysrKysrKysrKysrKysrKysrKystLS0tLS0KIDEgZmlsZSBjaGFuZ2VkLCA3OCBp bnNlcnRpb25zKCspLCAxNyBkZWxldGlvbnMoLSkKCmRpZmYgLS1naXQgYS9kb2MvbGlzcGlu dHJvL2VtYWNzLWxpc3AtaW50cm8udGV4aSBiL2RvYy9saXNwaW50cm8vZW1hY3MtbGlzcC1p bnRyby50ZXhpCmluZGV4IGM1YjMzYWM1ZWFhLi40ZmE3NDMzMjZlZiAxMDA2NDQKLS0tIGEv ZG9jL2xpc3BpbnRyby9lbWFjcy1saXNwLWludHJvLnRleGkKKysrIGIvZG9jL2xpc3BpbnRy by9lbWFjcy1saXNwLWludHJvLnRleGkKQEAgLTM1OTEsNiArMzU5MSw3IEBAIGxldAogKiBQ YXJ0cyBvZiBsZXQgRXhwcmVzc2lvbjo6CiAqIFNhbXBsZSBsZXQgRXhwcmVzc2lvbjo6CiAq IFVuaW5pdGlhbGl6ZWQgbGV0IFZhcmlhYmxlczo6CisqIEhvdyBsZXQgQmluZHMgVmFyaWFi bGVzOjoKIEBlbmQgbWVudQogCiBAaWZub3R0ZXgKQEAgLTM2MDEsMjUgKzM2MDIsMjIgQEAg UHJldmVudCBjb25mdXNpb24KIEBjaW5kZXggQHNhbXB7bG9jYWwgdmFyaWFibGV9IGRlZmlu ZWQKIEBjaW5kZXggQHNhbXB7dmFyaWFibGUsIGxvY2FsfSwgZGVmaW5lZAogVGhlIEBjb2Rl e2xldH0gc3BlY2lhbCBmb3JtIHByZXZlbnRzIGNvbmZ1c2lvbi4gIEBjb2Rle2xldH0gY3Jl YXRlcyBhCi1uYW1lIGZvciBhIEBkZm57bG9jYWwgdmFyaWFibGV9IHRoYXQgb3ZlcnNoYWRv d3MgYW55IHVzZSBvZiB0aGUgc2FtZQotbmFtZSBvdXRzaWRlIHRoZSBAY29kZXtsZXR9IGV4 cHJlc3Npb24uICBUaGlzIGlzIGxpa2UgdW5kZXJzdGFuZGluZwotdGhhdCB3aGVuZXZlciB5 b3VyIGhvc3QgcmVmZXJzIHRvIGBgdGhlIGhvdXNlJycsIGhlIG1lYW5zIGhpcyBob3VzZSwg bm90Ci15b3Vycy4gIChTeW1ib2xzIHVzZWQgaW4gYXJndW1lbnQgbGlzdHMgd29yayB0aGUg c2FtZSB3YXkuCituYW1lIGZvciBhIEBkZm57bG9jYWwgdmFyaWFibGV9IHRoYXQgb3ZlcnJp ZGVzIGFueSB1c2Ugb2YgdGhlIHNhbWUKK25hbWUgb3V0c2lkZSB0aGUgQGNvZGV7bGV0fSBl eHByZXNzaW9uIChpbiBjb21wdXRlciBzY2llbmNlIGphcmdvbiwgd2UKK2NhbGwgdGhpcyBg YGJpbmRpbmcnJyB0aGUgdmFyaWFibGUpLiAgVGhpcyBpcyBsaWtlIHVuZGVyc3RhbmRpbmcg dGhhdAoraW4geW91ciBob3N0J3MgaG9tZSwgd2hlbmV2ZXIgaGUgcmVmZXJzIHRvIGBgdGhl IGhvdXNlJycsIGhlIG1lYW5zIGhpcworaG91c2UsIG5vdCB5b3Vycy4gIChTeW1ib2xzIHVz ZWQgaW4gYXJndW1lbnQgbGlzdHMgd29yayB0aGUgc2FtZSB3YXkuCiBAeHJlZntkZWZ1biwg LCBUaGUgQGNvZGV7ZGVmdW59IE1hY3JvfS4pCiAKLUxvY2FsIHZhcmlhYmxlcyBjcmVhdGVk IGJ5IGEgQGNvZGV7bGV0fSBleHByZXNzaW9uIHJldGFpbiB0aGVpciB2YWx1ZQotQGVtcGh7 b25seX0gd2l0aGluIHRoZSBAY29kZXtsZXR9IGV4cHJlc3Npb24gaXRzZWxmIChhbmQgd2l0 aGluCi1leHByZXNzaW9ucyBjYWxsZWQgd2l0aGluIHRoZSBAY29kZXtsZXR9IGV4cHJlc3Np b24pOyB0aGUgbG9jYWwKLXZhcmlhYmxlcyBoYXZlIG5vIGVmZmVjdCBvdXRzaWRlIHRoZSBA Y29kZXtsZXR9IGV4cHJlc3Npb24uCi0KLUFub3RoZXIgd2F5IHRvIHRoaW5rIGFib3V0IEBj b2Rle2xldH0gaXMgdGhhdCBpdCBpcyBsaWtlIGEgQGNvZGV7c2V0cX0KLXRoYXQgaXMgdGVt cG9yYXJ5IGFuZCBsb2NhbC4gIFRoZSB2YWx1ZXMgc2V0IGJ5IEBjb2Rle2xldH0gYXJlCi1h dXRvbWF0aWNhbGx5IHVuZG9uZSB3aGVuIHRoZSBAY29kZXtsZXR9IGlzIGZpbmlzaGVkLiAg VGhlIHNldHRpbmcKLW9ubHkgYWZmZWN0cyBleHByZXNzaW9ucyB0aGF0IGFyZSBpbnNpZGUg dGhlIGJvdW5kcyBvZiB0aGUgQGNvZGV7bGV0fQotZXhwcmVzc2lvbi4gIEluIGNvbXB1dGVy IHNjaWVuY2UgamFyZ29uLCB3ZSB3b3VsZCBzYXkgdGhlIGJpbmRpbmcgb2YKLWEgc3ltYm9s IGlzIHZpc2libGUgb25seSBpbiBmdW5jdGlvbnMgY2FsbGVkIGluIHRoZSBAY29kZXtsZXR9 IGZvcm07Ci1pbiBFbWFjcyBMaXNwLCB0aGUgZGVmYXVsdCBzY29waW5nIGlzIGR5bmFtaWMs IG5vdCBsZXhpY2FsLiAgKFRoZQotbm9uLWRlZmF1bHQgbGV4aWNhbCBiaW5kaW5nIGlzIG5v dCBkaXNjdXNzZWQgaW4gdGhpcyBtYW51YWwuKQorQW5vdGhlciB3YXkgdG8gdGhpbmsgYWJv dXQgQGNvZGV7bGV0fSBpcyB0aGF0IGl0IGRlZmluZXMgYSBwbGFjZSBpbgoreW91ciBjb2Rl IHdoZXJlIHRoZSB2YXJpYWJsZXMgeW91IG5hbWVkIGhhdmUgdGhlaXIgb3duIGxvY2FsIG1l YW5pbmcuCitPdXRzaWRlIG9mIHRoZSBAY29kZXtsZXR9IGJvZHksIHRoZXkgaGF2ZSBhbm90 aGVyIG1lYW5pbmcgKG9yIHRoZXkgbWF5Citub3QgYmUgZGVmaW5lZCBhdCBhbGwpLiAgVGhp cyBtZWFucyB0aGF0IGluc2lkZSB0aGUgQGNvZGV7bGV0fSBib2R5LAorY2FsbGluZyBAY29k ZXtzZXRxfSBmb3IgYSB2YXJpYWJsZSBuYW1lZCBieSB0aGUgQGNvZGV7bGV0fSBleHByZXNz aW9uCit3aWxsIHNldCB0aGUgdmFsdWUgb2YgdGhlIEBlbXBoe2xvY2FsfSB2YXJpYWJsZSBv ZiB0aGF0IG5hbWUuICBUaGlzCithbHNvIG1lYW5zIHRoYXQgb3V0c2lkZSBvZiB0aGUgQGNv ZGV7bGV0fSBib2R5LCBjYWxsaW5nIEBjb2Rle3NldHF9Citmb3IgYSB2YXJpYWJsZSBuYW1l ZCBieSB0aGUgQGNvZGV7bGV0fSBleHByZXNzaW9uIHdpbGwgQGVtcGh7bm90fQorYWZmZWN0 IHRoYXQgbG9jYWwgdmFyaWFibGUuCiAKIEBjb2Rle2xldH0gY2FuIGNyZWF0ZSBtb3JlIHRo YW4gb25lIHZhcmlhYmxlIGF0IG9uY2UuICBBbHNvLAogQGNvZGV7bGV0fSBnaXZlcyBlYWNo IHZhcmlhYmxlIGl0IGNyZWF0ZXMgYW4gaW5pdGlhbCB2YWx1ZSwgZWl0aGVyIGEKQEAgLTM3 NzksNiArMzc3Nyw2OSBAQCBVbmluaXRpYWxpemVkIGxldCBWYXJpYWJsZXMKIEBzYW1weyVz fS4pICBUaGUgZm91ciB2YXJpYWJsZXMgYXMgYSBncm91cCBhcmUgcHV0IGludG8gYSBsaXN0 IHRvCiBkZWxpbWl0IHRoZW0gZnJvbSB0aGUgYm9keSBvZiB0aGUgQGNvZGV7bGV0fS4KIAor QG5vZGUgSG93IGxldCBCaW5kcyBWYXJpYWJsZXMKK0BzdWJzZWN0aW9uIEhvdyBAY29kZXts ZXR9IEJpbmRzIFZhcmlhYmxlcworQGNpbmRleCBMZXhpY2FsIGJpbmRpbmcKK0BjaW5kZXgg QmluZGluZywgbGV4aWNhbAorQGNpbmRleCBEeW5hbWljIGJpbmRpbmcKK0BjaW5kZXggQmlu ZGluZywgZHluYW1pYworCitFbWFjcyBMaXNwIHN1cHBvcnRzIHR3byBkaWZmZXJlbnQgd2F5 cyBvZiBiaW5kaW5nIHZhcmlhYmxlIG5hbWVzIHRvCit0aGVpciB2YWx1ZXMuICBUaGVzZSB3 YXlzIGFmZmVjdCB0aGUgcGFydHMgb2YgeW91ciBwcm9ncmFtIHdoZXJlIGEKK3BhcnRpY3Vs YXIgYmluZGluZyBpcyB2YWxpZCAoaW4gY29tcHV0ZXIgc2NpZW5jZSBqYXJnb24sIHdlIGNh bGwgdGhlc2UKK3BhcnRzIGEgYGBzY29wZScnKS4gIEZvciBoaXN0b3JpY2FsIHJlYXNvbnMs IEVtYWNzIExpc3AgdXNlcyBhIGZvcm0gb2YKK3ZhcmlhYmxlIGJpbmRpbmcgY2FsbGVkIGBg ZHluYW1pYyBiaW5kaW5nJycgYnkgZGVmYXVsdC4gIEhvd2V2ZXIsIGluCit0aGlzIG1hbnVh bCwgd2UgZGlzY3VzcyB0aGUgcHJlZmVycmVkIGZvcm0gb2YgYmluZGluZywgY2FsbGVkCitg YGxleGljYWwgYmluZGluZycnIChpZiB5b3UgaGF2ZSBwcm9ncmFtbWVkIGluIG90aGVyIGxh bmd1YWdlcyBiZWZvcmUsCit5b3UncmUgbGlrZWx5IGFscmVhZHkgZmFtaWxpYXIgd2l0aCBo b3cgbGV4aWNhbCBiaW5kaW5nIGJlaGF2ZXMpLiAgSW4KK29yZGVyIHRvIHVzZSBsZXhpY2Fs IGJpbmRpbmcgaW4gYSBwcm9ncmFtLCB5b3Ugc2hvdWxkIGFkZCB0aGlzIHRvIHRoZQorZmly c3QgbGluZSBvZiB5b3VyIEVtYWNzIExpc3AgZmlsZToKKworQGV4YW1wbGUKKzs7OyAtKi0g bGV4aWNhbC1iaW5kaW5nOiB0IC0qLQorQGVuZCBleGFtcGxlCisKK0ZvciBtb3JlIGluZm9y bWF0aW9uIGFib3V0IHRoaXMsIEBweHJlZntTZWxlY3RpbmcgTGlzcCBEaWFsZWN0LCAsICwK K2VsaXNwLCBUaGUgRW1hY3MgTGlzcCBSZWZlcmVuY2UgTWFudWFsfS4KKworQXMgd2UgZGlz Y3Vzc2VkIGJlZm9yZSwgdW5kZXIgbGV4aWNhbCBiaW5kaW5nLCBAY29kZXtsZXR9IGRlZmlu ZXMgYQorQGVtcGh7cGxhY2V9IGluIHlvdXIgY29kZSB3aGVyZSB0aGUgdmFyaWFibGVzIGhh dmUgdGhlaXIgb3duIGxvY2FsCittZWFuaW5nLiAgVW5kZXIgZHluYW1pYyBiaW5kaW5nLCB0 aGUgcnVsZXMgYXJlIGRpZmZlcmVudDogaW5zdGVhZCwgeW91CithcmUgZGVmaW5pbmcgYSBA ZW1waHt0aW1lfSBpbiB5b3VyIGNvZGUgd2hlbiB0aGUgdmFyaWFibGVzIGhhdmUgdGhlaXIK K293biBsb2NhbCBtZWFuaW5nLgorCitBbm90aGVyIHdheSB0byB0aGluayBhYm91dCBAY29k ZXtsZXR9IHdoZW4gdXNpbmcgZHluYW1pYyBiaW5kaW5nIGlzCit0aGF0IGl0IGlzIGxpa2Ug YSBAY29kZXtzZXRxfSB0aGF0IGlzIHRlbXBvcmFyeSBhbmQgbG9jYWwuICBUaGUgdmFsdWVz CitzZXQgYnkgQGNvZGV7bGV0fSBhcmUgYXV0b21hdGljYWxseSB1bmRvbmUgd2hlbiB0aGUg QGNvZGV7bGV0fSBpcworZmluaXNoZWQuICBUaGUgc2V0dGluZyBvbmx5IGFmZmVjdHMgZXhw cmVzc2lvbnMgdGhhdCBhcmUgaW5zaWRlIHRoZQorYm91bmRzIG9mIHRoZSBAY29kZXtsZXR9 IGV4cHJlc3Npb24uCisKK0luIHNvbWUgY2FzZXMsIGJvdGggbGV4aWNhbCBhbmQgZHluYW1p YyBiaW5kaW5nIGJlaGF2ZSBpZGVudGljYWxseS4KK0hvd2V2ZXIsIGluIG90aGVyIGNhc2Vz LCB0aGV5IGNhbiBjaGFuZ2UgdGhlIG1lYW5pbmcgb2YgeW91ciBwcm9ncmFtLgorRm9yIGV4 YW1wbGUsIHVuZGVyIGxleGljYWwgYmluZGluZywgaWYgeW91IGNhbGwgYSBmdW5jdGlvbiBp bnNpZGUgb2YgYQorQGNvZGV7bGV0fSBib2R5LCB0aGF0IGZ1bmN0aW9uJ3MgYm9keSB3b3Vs ZCBiZSB1bmFibGUgdG8gYGBzZWUnJyAob3IKK21vZGlmeSkgdGhlIHZhbHVlIG9mIGEgbG9j YWwgdmFyaWFibGUgZnJvbSB0aGUgQGNvZGV7bGV0fSBleHByZXNzaW9uOgorCitAZXhhbXBs ZQorOzs7IC0qLSBsZXhpY2FsLWJpbmRpbmc6IHQgLSotCisKKyhzZXRxIHggMSkKKworKGRl ZnVuIGdldHggKCkKKyAgeCkKKworKGxldCAoKHggMikpCisgIChnZXR4KSkKKyAgICAgQHJl c3VsdHt9IDEKK0BlbmQgZXhhbXBsZQorCitAbm9pbmRlbnQKK0lmIHdlIGluc3RlYWQgY2hh bmdlIEBjb2Rle2xleGljYWwtYmluZGluZ30gdG8gaGF2ZSBhIHZhbHVlIG9mCitAY29kZXtu aWx9LCB3ZSB3aWxsIGdldCBhIGRpZmZlcmVudCByZXN1bHQgaGVyZS4gIE5vdywgdGhlIHJl c3VsdCBvZgorQHNhbXB7KGdldHgpfSBpcyBAc2FtcHsyfSEgIFRoYXQncyBiZWNhdXNlIHVu ZGVyIGR5bmFtaWMgYmluZGluZywgd2hlbgorQGNvZGV7Z2V0eH0gbG9va3MgZm9yIHRoZSB2 YWx1ZSBvZiBAY29kZXt4fSwgaXQgc2VlcyB0aGUgdmFsdWUgd2Ugc2V0CitpbiBvdXIgQGNv ZGV7bGV0fSBleHByZXNzaW9uLgorCiBAbm9kZSBpZgogQHNlY3Rpb24gVGhlIEBjb2Rle2lm fSBTcGVjaWFsIEZvcm0KIEBmaW5kZXggaWYKLS0gCjIuMjUuMQoK --------------c0q4k8B0P0JpPPo3JFZoCO0V--
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#66756; Package emacs.
Full text available.
Received: (at 66756) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Nov 2023 02:30:15 +0000
From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Nov 05 21:30:15 2023
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38470 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
id 1qzpNW-0006FT-SB
for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 05 Nov 2023 21:30:15 -0500
Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:43846)
by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
(envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1qzpNV-0006F8-8V
for 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 05 Nov 2023 21:30:13 -0500
Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e])
by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256)
(Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>)
id 1qzpMo-0007lS-Si; Sun, 05 Nov 2023 21:29:30 -0500
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org;
s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:
mime-version; bh=QGmjkkHOijNZoYFM3F16Qowkk2bO45U0D797pXddglY=; b=qwdwDsJwfNCg
7bRgnfCSbZb0oApuoQ9IVTb6wnEUQrIJUn5/fbNhIAC/IroQHne3L4nIKegCnu0ttFT9o/T4APM/U
iPtS2FjKQirhbTcOrg9AEUd9an1aZ1KVn0KcRZ/ZCfmbmXrs4fZMjqCyusdO4DMtmvoE57dZSj5Ub
RNHJ2ynzuOypxvdNmxPSFBrzb/65b16q5tptV/YFrvzTpdTHijJl4k57x14LnzZBUf1BW2TC7/+2B
1x+3s3Iy/wVFH4Y7TewK2c46N2sILNWAHrv8eFc06LG2/SGXMQM8E6fAt67BZfX30CcCjno7pEgfx
cZdk70YjF3xi/pKTXfw7nw==;
Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1)
(envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>)
id 1qzpMo-0002Ai-Ao; Sun, 05 Nov 2023 21:29:30 -0500
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8
From: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN>
To: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <a9812c1d-71e4-5f3f-83a4-a2923e649f3a@HIDDEN> (message from
Jim Porter on Wed, 25 Oct 2023 22:54:25 -0700)
Subject: Re: bug#66756: 30.0.50;
[PATCH] Improve discussion of 'let' in Elisp Introduction manual
References: <a9812c1d-71e4-5f3f-83a4-a2923e649f3a@HIDDEN>
Message-Id: <E1qzpMo-0002Ai-Ao@HIDDEN>
Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2023 21:29:30 -0500
X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--)
X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66756
Cc: 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>,
<mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>,
<mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Reply-To: rms@HIDDEN
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---)
[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
> +The @code{let} special form provides a way to confine your variables
> +to a particular section of your code (in computer science jargon, a
> +``scope''). @code{let} creates a name for a @dfn{local variable} that
> +overshadows any use of the same name outside the @code{let} expression
> +(we call this ``binding'' the variable). This prevents any accidental
> +usage of these variables outside of the @code{let} expression.
This is one of several reasons to use `let'.
Others are
* To compute a value once and use it more than once.
* To create a loop index variable.
* For special variables, to bind them si as to control the behavior
of other code.
Should all of them be mentioned in this node? I am not sure;
that is a pedagogical question. But this node shouldn't assert
that one reason is the only reason.
--
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#66756; Package emacs.
Full text available.
Received: (at 66756) by debbugs.gnu.org; 6 Nov 2023 02:30:15 +0000
From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Nov 05 21:30:14 2023
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38468 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
id 1qzpNW-0006FR-G1
for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 05 Nov 2023 21:30:14 -0500
Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:43840)
by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
(envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1qzpNU-0006F7-Lh
for 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 05 Nov 2023 21:30:13 -0500
Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e])
by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256)
(Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>)
id 1qzpMo-0007lL-3x; Sun, 05 Nov 2023 21:29:30 -0500
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org;
s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:
mime-version; bh=58Zi5U+KcoqOtzT3/iLnWCJ9kilXVHppT5YkMs3oAsk=; b=Wy/Yw5JE4D0J
Bu9qAIfsAGtcsSMDtWbeSV6jVHM9N7FNqGuNL3sH3Uc5l8ZZVRpPXNWZ01oYt+kHrSXad2qeMEIfw
taJJk1nN1/BNFiw+ZIZgO40eYZp9gNTsfu/pEQQgS+JvYEVsuNRLeH9VZuduZvuo69L+r96lLfkKz
kcRFJ7HcRe7o075vuqN42jFuehqgRR2vwDzAB9MtfxHKi0zHj6I5JKDz90GqXPGdEkvYGjGloA2gl
0zG0rkIV7zn6Y0+JObro+zZh2zDzgI81YVicLa5cdwYGkZaFNrurvBONfzVptLEpz1FSivBET2yhz
0gI8Z3AbXZNP2hvGqi1k2Q==;
Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1)
(envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>)
id 1qzpMn-00023S-L9; Sun, 05 Nov 2023 21:29:29 -0500
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8
From: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN>
To: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <a9812c1d-71e4-5f3f-83a4-a2923e649f3a@HIDDEN> (message from
Jim Porter on Wed, 25 Oct 2023 22:54:25 -0700)
Subject: Re: bug#66756: 30.0.50;
[PATCH] Improve discussion of 'let' in Elisp Introduction manual
References: <a9812c1d-71e4-5f3f-83a4-a2923e649f3a@HIDDEN>
Message-Id: <E1qzpMn-00023S-L9@HIDDEN>
Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2023 21:29:29 -0500
X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--)
X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66756
Cc: 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>,
<mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>,
<mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Reply-To: rms@HIDDEN
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---)
[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
This change is overall a step forward. Thanks for working on it.
A few specific parts of the new text could use a little cleaning up;
some of those parts are in the current version also.
+``scope''). @code{let} creates a name for a @dfn{local variable} that
+overshadows any use of the same name outside the @code{let} expression
+(we call this ``binding'' the variable).
The word "overshadows" seems stramge here. The usual term is "shadows",
and I don't see that "overshadows" adds any clarity.
> For historical reasons, Emacs Lisp uses a form of
> +variable binding called ``dynamic binding''.
This should say "by default", because it isn't always so. For
instance, if you specify lexical binding, then Emacs Lisp does not use
dynamic binding, except for variables marked special.
> +lexical binding, you should add something like this to the first line
Delete "something like".
--
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#66756; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 66756) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Nov 2023 16:45:32 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Nov 04 12:45:32 2023 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35669 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1qzJm7-000830-W7 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 04 Nov 2023 12:45:32 -0400 Received: from mail-pl1-x630.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::630]:47483) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>) id 1qzJm6-00082l-0T for 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 04 Nov 2023 12:45:30 -0400 Received: by mail-pl1-x630.google.com with SMTP id d9443c01a7336-1c434c33ec0so22996955ad.3 for <66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 04 Nov 2023 09:44:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1699116288; x=1699721088; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to :content-language:subject:mime-version:date:message-id:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=u+2sdyUuGVSFZtjAlrohp8yA5Iay/zWlfuUEb/9GSBk=; b=aHQL03UTIijyCRaVejsCnEXHsMDW9PhIwpX+8PJHN0CnEkHbVbJWFUBvOSmZAQbVSP BacbI1yDGQiCpowGyzS51s66M0/KPTL3cuoy9z1LzmugrdhDuzp2ABsZtL70cy7xFsED loKcusyRfajkdowr1/gbRU2nF0I8f0VVOHTlkSbMMGivTm9se1sAh31iVVrq42youp7y SkGOFEa+SeLXZA9O6B8pIzONzoi+Nl0Af4L0ebfz6wZ3JzkEX1EqDepvtlbzIq8dHX4F DQmgcOL6ccMl1XSFE7KLumxdE3ySGM0oPnbHI7+wB2DWgAwetaZRdH4Vq/1YY3LB5KO9 qORA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1699116288; x=1699721088; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:references:cc:to :content-language:subject:mime-version:date:message-id :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=u+2sdyUuGVSFZtjAlrohp8yA5Iay/zWlfuUEb/9GSBk=; b=ApFmTpySkhmP5n7wdAaCsK3FJm3gGEnmv6wXMLJGGsaoHHxW2iXmluzi9WwWSZ580t oPwM+IoRpnUWaMDNy7+ZJOU0xDwWr0IQCox2hApHy4vKIdUQOXg0lTBqtvgIxD3fd6Qd z2IQidsSi8PeyJpfSwZmepFYatQ+6ge9enBFYPbsMcmdGds2Rl15AbI4xo+anaCsJPcI FLlZatS5cOdCbHqr5FZzOT5kv4MOCARX0AeYYZCaF90RCHwuVHfjF3kjC7T3Y8iqMEGf SA8TYs+gKWQJxSJ6OQNeRyi/d3r4KIUWY6DecRsJf2wmrHYP3WyIEtS7y+1eaFRrpq3C v2fw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzxX22ajqke95NieWqqU8Ns+FoOYePJ/3RTMWWlfT7LwJC/qzB7 yevDLKSbi8iRl+COPRFqw7o= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFpV05QtYAkSsbPfIi5mP6l5wxK+VFlX/xP/NCC6kZ8FP3Ai4W5agHdJFUdQv52ZNmNhLjj7g== X-Received: by 2002:a17:903:22ca:b0:1c7:8446:d65c with SMTP id y10-20020a17090322ca00b001c78446d65cmr24369614plg.43.1699116287634; Sat, 04 Nov 2023 09:44:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (cpe-76-168-148-233.socal.res.rr.com. [76.168.148.233]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id b8-20020a170903228800b001bf5e24b2a8sm3179274plh.174.2023.11.04.09.44.46 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 04 Nov 2023 09:44:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <f3c2310b-5c85-2a07-bae4-b4cf782495c8@HIDDEN> Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2023 09:44:48 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: bug#66756: 30.0.50; [PATCH] Improve discussion of 'let' in Elisp Introduction manual Content-Language: en-US To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> References: <a9812c1d-71e4-5f3f-83a4-a2923e649f3a@HIDDEN> <a5120e2f-b008-1b74-1ad9-3fe7d861b13c@HIDDEN> <83fs1l6hyw.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <83fs1l6hyw.fsf@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66756 Cc: 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 11/4/2023 1:27 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > Richard, could you please review these changes? I see that there are already some good suggestions for how to improve my patch, so I'll try to work on that this weekend.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#66756; Package emacs.
Full text available.
Received: (at 66756) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Nov 2023 08:28:42 +0000
From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Nov 04 04:28:42 2023
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60489 helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
id 1qzC1J-0007dA-O1
for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 04 Nov 2023 04:28:42 -0400
Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:58772)
by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2)
(envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1qzC1I-0007cv-3I
for 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 04 Nov 2023 04:28:40 -0400
Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e])
by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256)
(Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>)
id 1qzC0c-0004hs-NO; Sat, 04 Nov 2023 04:27:58 -0400
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org;
s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date:
mime-version; bh=PQIuBbTL7taVCJPMSHY6sljJE562Q9HEcQ4vn2MU6OA=; b=RbxIMFdg3b0B
qNp8DqnUQpeFfykiOy5CyNVDEQ8ty63JvnEbDximA0KldyxJzmTVe8rC1tk0aRlxqh3JpgfSutGFL
ZxCLEh2Xdyi5MjMep/JUUFpqTo8llvQyAY8WloXf4VfapUQkcITWVdJX4pGemuHnNipcyTyYcyEWl
SSkP9qXbe53IaC93TD3LqNB13t8TfqrtklnvqMUTcs3XwOGeIAHhTQNyKiYFAvXD8+ZPU7VvVOFWk
76Exg9LkmfgGA8d/aMzdP5LsXh31/cDwbFf4PR8f+73Epdse2suUvvPo/F+MVU44DWNF2qliL1oFG
qVBQtdavPgn2RTfH/6d7Mg==;
Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2023 10:27:51 +0200
Message-Id: <83fs1l6hyw.fsf@HIDDEN>
From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
To: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <a5120e2f-b008-1b74-1ad9-3fe7d861b13c@HIDDEN> (message from
Jim Porter on Thu, 26 Oct 2023 11:30:46 -0700)
Subject: Re: bug#66756: 30.0.50; [PATCH] Improve discussion of 'let' in Elisp
Introduction manual
References: <a9812c1d-71e4-5f3f-83a4-a2923e649f3a@HIDDEN>
<a5120e2f-b008-1b74-1ad9-3fe7d861b13c@HIDDEN>
X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--)
X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66756
Cc: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>, 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>,
<mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>,
<mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---)
> Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2023 11:30:46 -0700
> From: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>
>
> On 10/26/2023 12:09 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > Thanks.
> >
> > The challenge in updating the Lisp Introduction manual is to try to
> > keep its informal and reader-friendly style as much as possible. It
> > is not just another ELisp Reference manual! So please try to keep
> > that in mind when you write the text, and in particular try not to
> > modify the existing text that is still accurate -- it was written by a
> > master, and each word there counts, even if it looks at first sight as
> > not important.
>
> Ok, here's a second attempt. I've tried to avoid changing anything that
> I don't think is truly necessary. I did alter a bit of the original
> wording to emphasize that under lexical binding, 'let' isn't about time,
> but about place. For example, that's why I changed this:
>
> > This is like understanding that whenever your host refers to ``the house'', he means his house, not yours.
>
> to this:
>
> > This is like understanding that in your host's home, whenever he refers to ``the house'', he means his house, not yours.
>
> My previous concern about the "lexical binding" digression still applies
> though. However, I'm not sure how to get around that at present; if we
> want to talk about lexical binding in the manual, we need to get users
> to enable it, so I think it's unavoidable that we at least mention it. I
> tried to introduce the jargon as gently as I could (by first introducing
> the term "binding" on its own before mentioning "lexical/dynamic
> binding"), but it's still a bit intimidating. On the positive side, when
> lexical binding is the default, we could remove that entire digression.
>
> There's also an argument that the example I added is in the wrong spot,
> since we haven't actually introduced the 'let' syntax yet. However, I
> personally find the example to be pretty useful since it shows off one
> of the key differences between lexical and dynamic binding, and helps
> show one of the boundaries of the 'let' form's scope. I myself tend to
> learn best by seeing examples of that sort. Fixing the order so we
> introduce the syntax first would require more extensive changes to this
> section...
Richard, could you please review these changes?
> From 12847e0d59b2de3791efa090addc0169e713e6d1 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
> From: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>
> Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2023 20:43:57 -0700
> Subject: [PATCH] Introduce 'let' using lexical binding in the Lisp
> Introduction
>
> * doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi (Prevent confusion): Rework the
> explanation to discuss how things work under lexical binding
> (including how to enable it).
> ---
> doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi | 67 ++++++++++++++++++++++-------
> 1 file changed, 51 insertions(+), 16 deletions(-)
>
> diff --git a/doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi b/doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi
> index fce7583fe91..e805833f979 100644
> --- a/doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi
> +++ b/doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi
> @@ -3602,24 +3602,59 @@ Prevent confusion
> @cindex @samp{variable, local}, defined
> The @code{let} special form prevents confusion. @code{let} creates a
> name for a @dfn{local variable} that overshadows any use of the same
> -name outside the @code{let} expression. This is like understanding
> -that whenever your host refers to ``the house'', he means his house, not
> -yours. (Symbols used in argument lists work the same way.
> +name outside the @code{let} expression (in computer science jargon, we
> +call this ``binding'' the variable). This is like understanding that
> +in your host's home, whenever he refers to ``the house'', he means his
> +house, not yours. (Symbols used in argument lists work the same way.
> @xref{defun, , The @code{defun} Macro}.)
>
> -Local variables created by a @code{let} expression retain their value
> -@emph{only} within the @code{let} expression itself (and within
> -expressions called within the @code{let} expression); the local
> -variables have no effect outside the @code{let} expression.
> -
> -Another way to think about @code{let} is that it is like a @code{setq}
> -that is temporary and local. The values set by @code{let} are
> -automatically undone when the @code{let} is finished. The setting
> -only affects expressions that are inside the bounds of the @code{let}
> -expression. In computer science jargon, we would say the binding of
> -a symbol is visible only in functions called in the @code{let} form;
> -in Emacs Lisp, the default scoping is dynamic, not lexical. (The
> -non-default lexical binding is not discussed in this manual.)
> +@cindex lexical binding
> +@cindex binding, lexical
> +@cindex dynamic binding
> +@cindex binding, dynamic
> +Before we begin discussing @code{let} in detail, we must first mention
> +an important note. For historical reasons, Emacs Lisp uses a form of
> +variable binding called ``dynamic binding''. However, this manual
> +will discuss the preferred form of binding, called ``lexical binding''
> +(if you have programmed in other languages before, you're likely
> +already familiar with how lexical binding behaves). In order to use
> +lexical binding, you should add something like this to the first line
> +of your Emacs Lisp file:
> +
> +@example
> +;;; -*- lexical-binding: t -*-
> +@end example
> +
> +For more information about this, @pxref{Selecting Lisp Dialect, , ,
> +elisp, The Emacs Lisp Reference Manual}.
> +
> +With that out of the way, we can get back to discussing @code{let}.
> +Another way to think about @code{let} is that it defines a place in
> +your code where the variables you named have their own local meaning.
> +Outside of the @code{let} body, they have another meaning (or they may
> +not be defined at all).
> +
> +This means that inside the @code{let} body, calling @code{setq}
> +for a variable named by the @code{let} expression will set the value
> +of the @emph{local} variable of that name. This also means that
> +outside of the @code{let} body, calling @code{setq} for a variable
> +named by the @code{let} expression will @emph{not} affect that local
> +variable.
> +
> +For example, if you call a function inside of a @code{let}
> +body, that function's body would be unable to ``see'' (or modify) the
> +value of a local variable from the @code{let} expression:
> +
> +@example
> +(setq x 1)
> +
> +(defun getx ()
> + x)
> +
> +(let ((x 2))
> + (get-x))
> + @result{} 1
> +@end example
>
> @code{let} can create more than one variable at once. Also,
> @code{let} gives each variable it creates an initial value, either a
> --
> 2.25.1
>
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#66756; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 66756) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Oct 2023 17:19:15 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Oct 29 13:19:15 2023 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43288 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1qx9RS-0000ZI-Ou for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 29 Oct 2023 13:19:15 -0400 Received: from mx0a-00069f02.pphosted.com ([205.220.165.32]:50424) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <drew.adams@HIDDEN>) id 1qx9RO-0000Z8-Ov for 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 29 Oct 2023 13:19:13 -0400 Received: from pps.filterd (m0246617.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (8.17.1.19/8.17.1.19) with ESMTP id 39T69wa0007497; Sun, 29 Oct 2023 17:18:36 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=corp-2023-03-30; bh=af7sUUeG4x0gILOsTvQ6uJxdcIWR9EMp3ERBzfL+5/I=; b=fc1Ca9EXCl0xdlpjquEadlFnE9BrtwYatTJk5/aTZ5zIkZzdbVHu3cEMBYdnq9AFID8F ZtEc9G3lp+yMif6LpFPtC7lQZSFXc1gy3w3+IEIbSCid7Zeh1rzL/Rhn+T1gHaECeSOL ZnABgjB2I5KDBNKScb7+ont+MtacxkV2BHYtbx2nM7oadlMRhwZ9Q+SpxY505oYuEy95 PNXPhdjVoleun25Gv7kKQekxbXHTLRf9Y7jpte0ej+h3QkW+2Abj8q4BvsPvLQWfZvv8 0KCpstJXW4jfHzWPAxBsdJOByoy5wK3bDR+nwbMtUSuQAL5I+830VeHx98XKJM5cfvm2 Tw== Received: from iadpaimrmta03.imrmtpd1.prodappiadaev1.oraclevcn.com (iadpaimrmta03.appoci.oracle.com [130.35.103.27]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (PPS) with ESMTPS id 3u0tuu9ct0-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 29 Oct 2023 17:18:36 +0000 Received: from pps.filterd (iadpaimrmta03.imrmtpd1.prodappiadaev1.oraclevcn.com [127.0.0.1]) by iadpaimrmta03.imrmtpd1.prodappiadaev1.oraclevcn.com (8.17.1.19/8.17.1.19) with ESMTP id 39TH86Xg030690; Sun, 29 Oct 2023 17:18:35 GMT Received: from nam12-mw2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-mw2nam12lp2040.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.66.40]) by iadpaimrmta03.imrmtpd1.prodappiadaev1.oraclevcn.com (PPS) with ESMTPS id 3u0rr9nbvs-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 29 Oct 2023 17:18:35 +0000 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=bhLo196RL85b20clI9m+CZmLqkqMUsbXfcL2zBuB8cC+d+PZe4mmSLK7VLxNqC2dIg9xsWtAMaRUSe9sCQBVNas3BgJA/cqsXt5wWsdyu53wGj7h4vRChtjlzFZFO39Mcz9A9fWtrapIF1F3a7fjaksOY21u+7lm/tgVpQjQLgAkinxpY4t8EeSNfTU6ZjxiGHFoY5GriPyDTKt2CBbOyaOHIYHCL7EeRCgOpy/7djPQaAPbLFh807YKc87hz3RHplyYLwopR3NBq/B/s2DhEDNtFcNQAkRnJyMP5nd6csbJrO4qSKSz2kMJw7AnkfUw6hORIU5KfN4oCvsDZmcuZA== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=af7sUUeG4x0gILOsTvQ6uJxdcIWR9EMp3ERBzfL+5/I=; b=FrsRTuTVD3WCBr/KXPW9vUpDJ2h6vzfGc54ReYIQuijslcKRm0o/M9HTBxOqHwaO+A0ZCVFAxYTnvAil/ecawb2nOpZImjcKEiJxHivexbMQUJvvacWzRnXh4OBdtO46L+dlAMNy7z+3d46Mj6hlNPmZ/3D+be3gvzc9IfG7Fx1Xx6DgD1ynPnkoghsF6Vt1b431Pi7DwExwsZ3PPCo0fjxJa4/TbSHlrYQKUaGoSmgqGs4plZtd8CQ21VEwDuHHF8emeop4daHh/5fdqVvYc7PHjo6GmvegIjy9sCYR5t/4iFQxg944lp8wHAEQAft7N1i4h5X4N3J1CXHp08yRtw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=oracle.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=oracle.com; dkim=pass header.d=oracle.com; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-oracle-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=af7sUUeG4x0gILOsTvQ6uJxdcIWR9EMp3ERBzfL+5/I=; b=aKJ/kjrXCq0S8zz6V2TJ0j+Q8qfc4ZAOwD3OEfHxjZWwQdC0wKWJovbOc4VLpd+HuYXKXqEJYT9PBb1EHNqdUxGZZq66gOmfHGJ5ETZ1RDWcXE9mOvbUxjMLmSLbD3Iu2AaTs6kawg7teVpsWkfIHeTSCr9YQn80Nq4lBuPRHm0= Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:37e::19) by DM3PR10MB7969.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:0:45::10) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.6907.33; Sun, 29 Oct 2023 17:18:32 +0000 Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::9e11:9d8c:b7f4:f45b]) by SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::9e11:9d8c:b7f4:f45b%6]) with mapi id 15.20.6907.032; Sun, 29 Oct 2023 17:18:32 +0000 From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> To: "rms@HIDDEN" <rms@HIDDEN>, Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN> Subject: RE: [External] : bug#66756: 30.0.50; [PATCH] Improve discussion of 'let' in Elisp Introduction manual Thread-Topic: [External] : bug#66756: 30.0.50; [PATCH] Improve discussion of 'let' in Elisp Introduction manual Thread-Index: AQHaCoZlqolk2br6BEGeAg2k0lgaybBhAqCQ Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2023 17:18:31 +0000 Message-ID: <SJ0PR10MB5488DEF7684D147FC04E4A29F3A2A@HIDDEN> References: <a9812c1d-71e4-5f3f-83a4-a2923e649f3a@HIDDEN> <a5120e2f-b008-1b74-1ad9-3fe7d861b13c@HIDDEN> <E1qx8nq-0007DY-HV@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <E1qx8nq-0007DY-HV@HIDDEN> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: SJ0PR10MB5488:EE_|DM3PR10MB7969:EE_ x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: f3dc1b6d-f11e-48b2-fc4c-08dbd8a3136f x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(13230031)(366004)(346002)(136003)(376002)(39860400002)(396003)(230922051799003)(186009)(64100799003)(451199024)(1800799009)(55016003)(4744005)(38100700002)(41300700001)(86362001)(44832011)(2906002)(6506007)(54906003)(110136005)(64756008)(66476007)(122000001)(66556008)(316002)(478600001)(71200400001)(66446008)(7696005)(9686003)(76116006)(33656002)(52536014)(5660300002)(4326008)(8676002)(66946007)(8936002)(38070700009)(26005); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: =?utf-8?B?M0RrK3U4dUg4d3A0YnBlMzZ0YmNzM2VlQkhkNHdwemVWZWdvTjZHaHQ1d3Fs?= =?utf-8?B?ZzBxVnFwNjRrQUxOV3JSSFQxQnFKQytkNUExTGN4dzlTVG9VSTNVbnFaU0hU?= =?utf-8?B?VndrKzh5M01sWUxHNkN2dkNRK2V5RTd5aGYybC9MTmpxUlJOVElETGJ1ZElw?= =?utf-8?B?c2Y0ejM0aElIYUxWRXNpRnFGemluaEtCSGg4UDVmdlZpMjZGTEhQbVBBL1JC?= =?utf-8?B?cVdVODZZVFpNLytjY1FDM0w5SXBpcHdXUmJrSjdCcUZrcWxHOVd2SmlobFBx?= =?utf-8?B?U2NJZXpOdzg5WkFGRGM1NmYyWE1OYnZrMlZuMUsrTUM1Z2VKMUNtd1ZES0o0?= =?utf-8?B?d2xhQ0ZuUGV5amtEZXFaWXZ0bmJ2Tzh6MlVwTi9wR3dLTGczUkZQQUxqcVpy?= =?utf-8?B?ajNqK0tCWTJuVlEwL3VqYXhOeDNsMWRIRWdNWHF6OUZyQU1uWTBYamFoc1Jw?= =?utf-8?B?d1lWZlZHaGtaM0VwSmpZSzdxZVdSTHlQYW1meWRzR0JvaHhkM0I1TmdvMmN4?= =?utf-8?B?b0g2aWFid200czNSSjdFcU9ZZDZnUEV6NEtiZXJyRTl4RHNKWklHZ1g0d204?= =?utf-8?B?MjNvcTJ3eXJoaTVaZm9kRHVZSXNTSkw2VDlKNE1OMmR5UjAwd05vOENwVm9W?= =?utf-8?B?UmFJUU16S1hXTkUvUmVzWjdid2pKMjhGVTZOcTVQSkxjYW9McXlIWm1PTTMr?= =?utf-8?B?K3pmSFE3cUd4b0RkaEZ1cXNqeVhWeVMyeDdFYWtWRklTUVROYmxEYUl1OERs?= =?utf-8?B?MXpBaERRRUVxcmNrdWgvaU1pWHFmQ2Y5bHRHcUN1bFhHOGJXTllPWm94NzBM?= =?utf-8?B?MExvY1huQmVSYy9nd2Uzb2daMkVpcVErTlhZRDFIRmkzVjR5eG9PQzI1VHpP?= =?utf-8?B?OHRJdENaa2dsQ1RZdDlaOEFvVkcrd1BCK05UcmJEbUZUVWgvRll4UVRrNWp4?= =?utf-8?B?UEU3ZXdWalZkblZQWlBHRmFFS2dkcGd3YXlUR1RmRmVmWTMyWmkrcUhWNkNY?= =?utf-8?B?VXNpeUxmSVNCOS9DdWtLNEl6cHc1K3MzOVJYWjJJNWR6Q1RRd0ZYakwxMURU?= =?utf-8?B?anFDK1ovbTFnd1d3M1A3dFk3SVYzMTVYczBVSjJMVDFiU1lNQTEremdFby9H?= =?utf-8?B?cVZpYW15MmhvSEgrVkRnUzdUUGVZMnlQcU9WYkQ1UFpPRUw2VmhvQTgyVmg5?= =?utf-8?B?RjhPRUNJakFSem1EUnNUS2gvTWFzT1ppY2pOQzg5OTczalg3NlBmV2Vrdmd3?= =?utf-8?B?aExNOHk4WHludEVsUmVhc3FNcURhVnVsazk2cC9pNEpza1V1S2xLRXB2U01i?= =?utf-8?B?K3RNTnh2ZHAwTHhVQVdpZmY2NXh5d0F0cXlNd3dBZVhJTURxdkwrR1VRTWFq?= =?utf-8?B?MkJ2Kzk1QU80TmxaVnFOMWRWemNsL1J6eVpNZkV1VVdyV3RSYzc0TGdDcTVE?= =?utf-8?B?VENYMjNQVUh4ZTAvTjkrMkcwV3BuUE5MYU5RMy9yeGxrZU5Ia2FaMnV6K3JK?= =?utf-8?B?b2N2SG1VUTg2ZUp3em5oRTRDVXZKdUJKZVlQdlRCQU1LL2ZYRFVQdDFTdzVX?= =?utf-8?B?M3pkOWthR2FuYytRRDU4T1dyVzM4emhNRE4rZ3Rtb01pUFB5MkVtUklDMFNY?= =?utf-8?B?RGR6S1VmbXZqaHBuY0g0aG04RUk0SndoRUtKbklXZWNWbk9RanJ3ZFpSQXJa?= =?utf-8?B?WVBVL1F1SzR3TzhtZFFZbWFTbGtOLzRoRXBNeWxGZnZrZTNyK3VnRFlYeDFQ?= =?utf-8?B?K0gvaHR1M0NnR2EwUiswM0piQU9CTzZyY1NXRmNsd0l4clpvckxWTVdNNlA0?= =?utf-8?B?SDJJdnpJNTRha0ozVklGM3pvcnVWcmttWldDY3lFS0RodjQvVTQ4S05oUWlq?= =?utf-8?B?VEY4OEowNDg4ZEdSN2twaDA4a1V3T3RKZTU5eDRCRkhURGhwZm5qVHFFazhI?= =?utf-8?B?cFhXeUY1VG5RM0Rtc0U2RHR2L2c5UDBHSmV0djlqRTR5SEVqTEtlK1dsWlhG?= =?utf-8?B?UGZMd3ptSmI0bWIxQzluSHRPVSsyalgxaUJhQUlrSkwrVlM2RHIvRGxxRTNN?= =?utf-8?B?SksrUUxwb1dXQndOSndIQTFUS3VtNndXeS9QUDNjVlNDeDZpd1Y0YXQ2NHJP?= =?utf-8?Q?ge3AfUwbnJgshkwUOMDF7Ty9G?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-ChunkCount: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-0: 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 X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: f3dc1b6d-f11e-48b2-fc4c-08dbd8a3136f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 29 Oct 2023 17:18:31.9842 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: c8qB8djx5xP/n3c7df9sb1/dKAdRYgRW3KYnHolnCSYhOT7c4rO+zBwlgXZdBnX29nLmf385/ARfAbiQVumKIA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM3PR10MB7969 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.272,Aquarius:18.0.987,Hydra:6.0.619,FMLib:17.11.176.26 definitions=2023-10-29_06,2023-10-27_01,2023-05-22_02 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 bulkscore=0 suspectscore=0 spamscore=0 phishscore=0 mlxlogscore=656 adultscore=0 mlxscore=0 malwarescore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2310240000 definitions=main-2310290149 X-Proofpoint-GUID: 5U2Ao0IeQZPW4RgAmMRuUGe-Sw8Safbk X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: 5U2Ao0IeQZPW4RgAmMRuUGe-Sw8Safbk X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66756 Cc: "eliz@HIDDEN" <eliz@HIDDEN>, "66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) PiBJIHRoaW5rIHRoYXQgdGhlIGxleGljYWwvZHluYW1pYyBzY29wZSBkaXN0aW5jdGlvbiBpcyBz dWZmaWNpZW50bHkNCj4gaW1wb3J0YW50IHRoYXQgdGhpcyBtYW51YWwgc2hvdWxkIGV4cGxhaW4g aXQsIHdoZXRoZXIgb3Igbm90IGhpZGluZyBpdA0KPiBpcyBzaW1wbHkgaW1wb3NzaWJsZS4NCj4g DQo+IEhvd2V2ZXIsIHRlaHJlIGFyZSBsb3RzIG9mIHNpbXBsZSBMaXNwIGZ1bmN0aW9ucyBmb3Ig d2hpY2ggbGV4aWNhbA0KPiB2cyBkeW5hbWljIG1ha3Mgbm8gZGlmZmVlbmNlLiAgRm9yIGV4YW1w bGUsIChkZWZ1biBzcXVhcmUgKHgpICgqIHggeCkpDQo+IA0KPiBTbyBwZXJoYXBzIGl0IGlzIHBv c3NpYmxlIGZvciB0aGUgZmlyc3QgZmV3IHNlY3Rpb25zIHRvIHVzZSBleGFtcGxlcw0KPiB3aGlj aCB3b3JrIHRoZSBzYW1lIGluIGxleGljYWwgbW9kZSBhbmQgZHluYW1pYyBtb2RlLCBUSEVOIHNo b3cgYW4NCj4gZXhhbXBsZSBmb3Igd2hpY2ggaXQgZG9lcyBtYWtlIGEgZGlmZmVyZW5jZSBhcyBh IHdheSB0byBleHBsYWluIHRoZQ0KPiB0d28gbW9kZXMuDQoNCisxLg0KDQo=
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#66756; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 66756) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Oct 2023 16:39:00 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Oct 29 12:39:00 2023 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43235 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1qx8oW-0007pS-0A for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 29 Oct 2023 12:39:00 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:41030) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1qx8oS-0007p6-S5 for 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 29 Oct 2023 12:38:58 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1qx8nq-0004OB-Q6; Sun, 29 Oct 2023 12:38:18 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=3o4GuYfPpxcQNIFAHn4D1eVAnkodg7AsZfnwhyDammM=; b=Tafljwats09F 5uj3Xa5QwQ2Mp1jwa1rCw7WDYlp5V3kSo95ic/fyj0i529/vC+2TcyUqj8hquUlhJkd7QhCI6TP8X FJP6UawpK6KNtH5kRqUKRY2Xk/FOTl9qKbQfxgAv7I/p+6UO88WpbsJd7EQIXvKuoWi+65gJAlFTs hL6zTOfg/1iUJiQhNXPDINlUUPC9KrCtFbS9jvmKEdbnuYUy7cDnklJQuIMp1N/MGcjYh+ovIXZa5 MzfO+Lds7PelVfyUYXnEyWlpgyGtxY+Xkl2qYBUuH+cviy3T0DTz6f2Mr24CNbzE5TSvREN1AbFds 5+tPxdZgW7XhcHy0ZrYhOA==; Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1qx8nq-0007DY-HV; Sun, 29 Oct 2023 12:38:18 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> To: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <a5120e2f-b008-1b74-1ad9-3fe7d861b13c@HIDDEN> (message from Jim Porter on Thu, 26 Oct 2023 11:30:46 -0700) Subject: Re: bug#66756: 30.0.50; [PATCH] Improve discussion of 'let' in Elisp Introduction manual References: <a9812c1d-71e4-5f3f-83a4-a2923e649f3a@HIDDEN> <a5120e2f-b008-1b74-1ad9-3fe7d861b13c@HIDDEN> Message-Id: <E1qx8nq-0007DY-HV@HIDDEN> Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2023 12:38:18 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66756 Cc: eliz@HIDDEN, 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Reply-To: rms@HIDDEN Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > This is like understanding that in your host's home, whenever he refers to ``the house'', he means his house, not yours. That seems good enough to me. > My previous concern about the "lexical binding" digression still applies > though. However, I'm not sure how to get around that at present; if we > want to talk about lexical binding in the manual, we need to get users > to enable it, so I think it's unavoidable that we at least mention it. I think that the lexical/dynamic scope distinction is sufficiently important that this manual should explain it, whether or not hiding it is simply impossible. However, tehre are lots of simple Lisp functions for which lexical vs dynamic maks no diffeence. For example, (defun square (x) (* x x)) So perhaps it is possible for the first few sections to use examples which work the same in lexical mode and dynamic mode, THEN show an example for which it does make a difference as a way to explain the two modes. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#66756; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 66756) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Oct 2023 18:31:29 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Oct 26 14:31:29 2023 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34461 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1qw58i-0007y1-M8 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Oct 2023 14:31:29 -0400 Received: from mail-pf1-x430.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::430]:54433) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>) id 1qw58g-0007xk-10 for 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Oct 2023 14:31:27 -0400 Received: by mail-pf1-x430.google.com with SMTP id d2e1a72fcca58-6b89ab5ddb7so1234893b3a.0 for <66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 26 Oct 2023 11:30:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1698345049; x=1698949849; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=in-reply-to:references:to:from:content-language:subject :mime-version:date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=DEGQZAdeYkwo3wHH++p6M5GyIwbhJrt/4g4pAT2PTIo=; b=NGZxhOpzwSPI7OHEYFju100pMHRtlPowMiD8tIEAzKZQaFocEeBmIAkjh6HzjOyTFI 14j1J97fMDFnM9ecfTysnkmttBpmPqj1P/NF0NDm/c5uMCmO4R0iTep+wdacLI4HGUCR 1MF/hEe+JCnOMx0EEo8dXuANcgqQv/bNzsW1zzGWnG+z6d4gibJ3XdkYDCmHVK759MEY Motc/KbG9cbPKbfO3JsaHgKX00TXy3Bj3UR4Ks8BzaoHRC7BaNOO2jcbHHLD1LumOLMY xUfx/35vp/UWisqyul8wPfWzka04AXjOYx1nQUmEImpgAnrkIs9NeOsqkd5bjrbDocuj nDBw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1698345049; x=1698949849; h=in-reply-to:references:to:from:content-language:subject :mime-version:date:message-id:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject :date:message-id:reply-to; bh=DEGQZAdeYkwo3wHH++p6M5GyIwbhJrt/4g4pAT2PTIo=; b=L4/V5U8qS4Q0LJbeOF1RJ5vqQ2ZiCbNZ285VRnrkqMDCzLQdw3No/mjh1ym4O3zWH6 zz/TeYPHWpp129jnbTGJ4K4Po4Y0yCnzx9wJNb7OZ8ZMkraWx65oYmeiZtXbpFy6c38J p4vbvBVIUPAmtC1KLzie0GxUEtFRvsRomSijjY1Ey2wBVGIDkhRY+Yhkfc3zb5H8rScR Jmxy/jk02/KixV5fOROM+V0MODQtPYv6Nc+1K1DwiKUKBMs77yKRMCT6yYfFzAzILNMf YVjlxg3hwyo47FDUHPi6Wm/0j8+NcQR5hB4QvgY3/Igr5HX0kBFcPZi5+VgN8dBVzaFc GmdQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxlYVK5NmGrFeeboekMF1t784Zz7Z4PzT2AgjpDqx129Iv1FHCj F8AdSx37Jv50rJOyCZmv2Y5O6jG8ZLo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IG8YsqSQ3Jm8xy0O5CrVh2ta8K28mT7orrSecAbMlyNNGxwN98Mg8ANmlkEWji2ySnjPEBy1g== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6a00:2e27:b0:6bd:b3b9:649f with SMTP id fc39-20020a056a002e2700b006bdb3b9649fmr387968pfb.7.1698345048694; Thu, 26 Oct 2023 11:30:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (cpe-76-168-148-233.socal.res.rr.com. [76.168.148.233]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id s187-20020a625ec4000000b0068ff267f094sm11980235pfb.158.2023.10.26.11.30.47 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 26 Oct 2023 11:30:48 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------pLS8SgkCX4BkOUlIXEdkfVyJ" Message-ID: <a5120e2f-b008-1b74-1ad9-3fe7d861b13c@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2023 11:30:46 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: bug#66756: 30.0.50; [PATCH] Improve discussion of 'let' in Elisp Introduction manual Content-Language: en-US From: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN> To: 66756 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, eliz@HIDDEN References: <a9812c1d-71e4-5f3f-83a4-a2923e649f3a@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <a9812c1d-71e4-5f3f-83a4-a2923e649f3a@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66756 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------pLS8SgkCX4BkOUlIXEdkfVyJ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 10/26/2023 12:09 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > Thanks. > > The challenge in updating the Lisp Introduction manual is to try to > keep its informal and reader-friendly style as much as possible. It > is not just another ELisp Reference manual! So please try to keep > that in mind when you write the text, and in particular try not to > modify the existing text that is still accurate -- it was written by a > master, and each word there counts, even if it looks at first sight as > not important. Ok, here's a second attempt. I've tried to avoid changing anything that I don't think is truly necessary. I did alter a bit of the original wording to emphasize that under lexical binding, 'let' isn't about time, but about place. For example, that's why I changed this: > This is like understanding that whenever your host refers to ``the house'', he means his house, not yours. to this: > This is like understanding that in your host's home, whenever he refers to ``the house'', he means his house, not yours. My previous concern about the "lexical binding" digression still applies though. However, I'm not sure how to get around that at present; if we want to talk about lexical binding in the manual, we need to get users to enable it, so I think it's unavoidable that we at least mention it. I tried to introduce the jargon as gently as I could (by first introducing the term "binding" on its own before mentioning "lexical/dynamic binding"), but it's still a bit intimidating. On the positive side, when lexical binding is the default, we could remove that entire digression. There's also an argument that the example I added is in the wrong spot, since we haven't actually introduced the 'let' syntax yet. However, I personally find the example to be pretty useful since it shows off one of the key differences between lexical and dynamic binding, and helps show one of the boundaries of the 'let' form's scope. I myself tend to learn best by seeing examples of that sort. Fixing the order so we introduce the syntax first would require more extensive changes to this section... --------------pLS8SgkCX4BkOUlIXEdkfVyJ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; name="0001-Introduce-let-using-lexical-binding-in-the-Lisp-Intr.patch" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename*0="0001-Introduce-let-using-lexical-binding-in-the-Lisp-Intr.pa"; filename*1="tch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 RnJvbSAxMjg0N2UwZDU5YjJkZTM3OTFlZmEwOTBhZGRjMDE2OWU3MTNlNmQxIE1vbiBTZXAg MTcgMDA6MDA6MDAgMjAwMQpGcm9tOiBKaW0gUG9ydGVyIDxqcG9ydGVyYnVnc0BnbWFpbC5j b20+CkRhdGU6IFdlZCwgMjUgT2N0IDIwMjMgMjA6NDM6NTcgLTA3MDAKU3ViamVjdDogW1BB VENIXSBJbnRyb2R1Y2UgJ2xldCcgdXNpbmcgbGV4aWNhbCBiaW5kaW5nIGluIHRoZSBMaXNw CiBJbnRyb2R1Y3Rpb24KCiogZG9jL2xpc3BpbnRyby9lbWFjcy1saXNwLWludHJvLnRleGkg KFByZXZlbnQgY29uZnVzaW9uKTogUmV3b3JrIHRoZQpleHBsYW5hdGlvbiB0byBkaXNjdXNz IGhvdyB0aGluZ3Mgd29yayB1bmRlciBsZXhpY2FsIGJpbmRpbmcKKGluY2x1ZGluZyBob3cg dG8gZW5hYmxlIGl0KS4KLS0tCiBkb2MvbGlzcGludHJvL2VtYWNzLWxpc3AtaW50cm8udGV4 aSB8IDY3ICsrKysrKysrKysrKysrKysrKysrKystLS0tLS0tCiAxIGZpbGUgY2hhbmdlZCwg NTEgaW5zZXJ0aW9ucygrKSwgMTYgZGVsZXRpb25zKC0pCgpkaWZmIC0tZ2l0IGEvZG9jL2xp c3BpbnRyby9lbWFjcy1saXNwLWludHJvLnRleGkgYi9kb2MvbGlzcGludHJvL2VtYWNzLWxp c3AtaW50cm8udGV4aQppbmRleCBmY2U3NTgzZmU5MS4uZTgwNTgzM2Y5NzkgMTAwNjQ0Ci0t LSBhL2RvYy9saXNwaW50cm8vZW1hY3MtbGlzcC1pbnRyby50ZXhpCisrKyBiL2RvYy9saXNw aW50cm8vZW1hY3MtbGlzcC1pbnRyby50ZXhpCkBAIC0zNjAyLDI0ICszNjAyLDU5IEBAIFBy ZXZlbnQgY29uZnVzaW9uCiBAY2luZGV4IEBzYW1we3ZhcmlhYmxlLCBsb2NhbH0sIGRlZmlu ZWQKIFRoZSBAY29kZXtsZXR9IHNwZWNpYWwgZm9ybSBwcmV2ZW50cyBjb25mdXNpb24uICBA Y29kZXtsZXR9IGNyZWF0ZXMgYQogbmFtZSBmb3IgYSBAZGZue2xvY2FsIHZhcmlhYmxlfSB0 aGF0IG92ZXJzaGFkb3dzIGFueSB1c2Ugb2YgdGhlIHNhbWUKLW5hbWUgb3V0c2lkZSB0aGUg QGNvZGV7bGV0fSBleHByZXNzaW9uLiAgVGhpcyBpcyBsaWtlIHVuZGVyc3RhbmRpbmcKLXRo YXQgd2hlbmV2ZXIgeW91ciBob3N0IHJlZmVycyB0byBgYHRoZSBob3VzZScnLCBoZSBtZWFu cyBoaXMgaG91c2UsIG5vdAoteW91cnMuICAoU3ltYm9scyB1c2VkIGluIGFyZ3VtZW50IGxp c3RzIHdvcmsgdGhlIHNhbWUgd2F5LgorbmFtZSBvdXRzaWRlIHRoZSBAY29kZXtsZXR9IGV4 cHJlc3Npb24gKGluIGNvbXB1dGVyIHNjaWVuY2UgamFyZ29uLCB3ZQorY2FsbCB0aGlzIGBg YmluZGluZycnIHRoZSB2YXJpYWJsZSkuICBUaGlzIGlzIGxpa2UgdW5kZXJzdGFuZGluZyB0 aGF0CitpbiB5b3VyIGhvc3QncyBob21lLCB3aGVuZXZlciBoZSByZWZlcnMgdG8gYGB0aGUg aG91c2UnJywgaGUgbWVhbnMgaGlzCitob3VzZSwgbm90IHlvdXJzLiAgKFN5bWJvbHMgdXNl ZCBpbiBhcmd1bWVudCBsaXN0cyB3b3JrIHRoZSBzYW1lIHdheS4KIEB4cmVme2RlZnVuLCAs IFRoZSBAY29kZXtkZWZ1bn0gTWFjcm99LikKIAotTG9jYWwgdmFyaWFibGVzIGNyZWF0ZWQg YnkgYSBAY29kZXtsZXR9IGV4cHJlc3Npb24gcmV0YWluIHRoZWlyIHZhbHVlCi1AZW1waHtv bmx5fSB3aXRoaW4gdGhlIEBjb2Rle2xldH0gZXhwcmVzc2lvbiBpdHNlbGYgKGFuZCB3aXRo aW4KLWV4cHJlc3Npb25zIGNhbGxlZCB3aXRoaW4gdGhlIEBjb2Rle2xldH0gZXhwcmVzc2lv bik7IHRoZSBsb2NhbAotdmFyaWFibGVzIGhhdmUgbm8gZWZmZWN0IG91dHNpZGUgdGhlIEBj b2Rle2xldH0gZXhwcmVzc2lvbi4KLQotQW5vdGhlciB3YXkgdG8gdGhpbmsgYWJvdXQgQGNv ZGV7bGV0fSBpcyB0aGF0IGl0IGlzIGxpa2UgYSBAY29kZXtzZXRxfQotdGhhdCBpcyB0ZW1w b3JhcnkgYW5kIGxvY2FsLiAgVGhlIHZhbHVlcyBzZXQgYnkgQGNvZGV7bGV0fSBhcmUKLWF1 dG9tYXRpY2FsbHkgdW5kb25lIHdoZW4gdGhlIEBjb2Rle2xldH0gaXMgZmluaXNoZWQuICBU aGUgc2V0dGluZwotb25seSBhZmZlY3RzIGV4cHJlc3Npb25zIHRoYXQgYXJlIGluc2lkZSB0 aGUgYm91bmRzIG9mIHRoZSBAY29kZXtsZXR9Ci1leHByZXNzaW9uLiAgSW4gY29tcHV0ZXIg c2NpZW5jZSBqYXJnb24sIHdlIHdvdWxkIHNheSB0aGUgYmluZGluZyBvZgotYSBzeW1ib2wg aXMgdmlzaWJsZSBvbmx5IGluIGZ1bmN0aW9ucyBjYWxsZWQgaW4gdGhlIEBjb2Rle2xldH0g Zm9ybTsKLWluIEVtYWNzIExpc3AsIHRoZSBkZWZhdWx0IHNjb3BpbmcgaXMgZHluYW1pYywg bm90IGxleGljYWwuICAoVGhlCi1ub24tZGVmYXVsdCBsZXhpY2FsIGJpbmRpbmcgaXMgbm90 IGRpc2N1c3NlZCBpbiB0aGlzIG1hbnVhbC4pCitAY2luZGV4IGxleGljYWwgYmluZGluZwor QGNpbmRleCBiaW5kaW5nLCBsZXhpY2FsCitAY2luZGV4IGR5bmFtaWMgYmluZGluZworQGNp bmRleCBiaW5kaW5nLCBkeW5hbWljCitCZWZvcmUgd2UgYmVnaW4gZGlzY3Vzc2luZyBAY29k ZXtsZXR9IGluIGRldGFpbCwgd2UgbXVzdCBmaXJzdCBtZW50aW9uCithbiBpbXBvcnRhbnQg bm90ZS4gIEZvciBoaXN0b3JpY2FsIHJlYXNvbnMsIEVtYWNzIExpc3AgdXNlcyBhIGZvcm0g b2YKK3ZhcmlhYmxlIGJpbmRpbmcgY2FsbGVkIGBgZHluYW1pYyBiaW5kaW5nJycuICBIb3dl dmVyLCB0aGlzIG1hbnVhbAord2lsbCBkaXNjdXNzIHRoZSBwcmVmZXJyZWQgZm9ybSBvZiBi aW5kaW5nLCBjYWxsZWQgYGBsZXhpY2FsIGJpbmRpbmcnJworKGlmIHlvdSBoYXZlIHByb2dy YW1tZWQgaW4gb3RoZXIgbGFuZ3VhZ2VzIGJlZm9yZSwgeW91J3JlIGxpa2VseQorYWxyZWFk eSBmYW1pbGlhciB3aXRoIGhvdyBsZXhpY2FsIGJpbmRpbmcgYmVoYXZlcykuICBJbiBvcmRl ciB0byB1c2UKK2xleGljYWwgYmluZGluZywgeW91IHNob3VsZCBhZGQgc29tZXRoaW5nIGxp a2UgdGhpcyB0byB0aGUgZmlyc3QgbGluZQorb2YgeW91ciBFbWFjcyBMaXNwIGZpbGU6CisK K0BleGFtcGxlCis7OzsgLSotIGxleGljYWwtYmluZGluZzogdCAtKi0KK0BlbmQgZXhhbXBs ZQorCitGb3IgbW9yZSBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbiBhYm91dCB0aGlzLCBAcHhyZWZ7U2VsZWN0aW5n IExpc3AgRGlhbGVjdCwgLCAsCitlbGlzcCwgVGhlIEVtYWNzIExpc3AgUmVmZXJlbmNlIE1h bnVhbH0uCisKK1dpdGggdGhhdCBvdXQgb2YgdGhlIHdheSwgd2UgY2FuIGdldCBiYWNrIHRv IGRpc2N1c3NpbmcgQGNvZGV7bGV0fS4KK0Fub3RoZXIgd2F5IHRvIHRoaW5rIGFib3V0IEBj b2Rle2xldH0gaXMgdGhhdCBpdCBkZWZpbmVzIGEgcGxhY2UgaW4KK3lvdXIgY29kZSB3aGVy ZSB0aGUgdmFyaWFibGVzIHlvdSBuYW1lZCBoYXZlIHRoZWlyIG93biBsb2NhbCBtZWFuaW5n LgorT3V0c2lkZSBvZiB0aGUgQGNvZGV7bGV0fSBib2R5LCB0aGV5IGhhdmUgYW5vdGhlciBt ZWFuaW5nIChvciB0aGV5IG1heQorbm90IGJlIGRlZmluZWQgYXQgYWxsKS4KKworVGhpcyBt ZWFucyB0aGF0IGluc2lkZSB0aGUgQGNvZGV7bGV0fSBib2R5LCBjYWxsaW5nIEBjb2Rle3Nl dHF9Citmb3IgYSB2YXJpYWJsZSBuYW1lZCBieSB0aGUgQGNvZGV7bGV0fSBleHByZXNzaW9u IHdpbGwgc2V0IHRoZSB2YWx1ZQorb2YgdGhlIEBlbXBoe2xvY2FsfSB2YXJpYWJsZSBvZiB0 aGF0IG5hbWUuICBUaGlzIGFsc28gbWVhbnMgdGhhdAorb3V0c2lkZSBvZiB0aGUgQGNvZGV7 bGV0fSBib2R5LCBjYWxsaW5nIEBjb2Rle3NldHF9IGZvciBhIHZhcmlhYmxlCituYW1lZCBi eSB0aGUgQGNvZGV7bGV0fSBleHByZXNzaW9uIHdpbGwgQGVtcGh7bm90fSBhZmZlY3QgdGhh dCBsb2NhbAordmFyaWFibGUuCisKK0ZvciBleGFtcGxlLCBpZiB5b3UgY2FsbCBhIGZ1bmN0 aW9uIGluc2lkZSBvZiBhIEBjb2Rle2xldH0KK2JvZHksIHRoYXQgZnVuY3Rpb24ncyBib2R5 IHdvdWxkIGJlIHVuYWJsZSB0byBgYHNlZScnIChvciBtb2RpZnkpIHRoZQordmFsdWUgb2Yg YSBsb2NhbCB2YXJpYWJsZSBmcm9tIHRoZSBAY29kZXtsZXR9IGV4cHJlc3Npb246CisKK0Bl eGFtcGxlCisoc2V0cSB4IDEpCisKKyhkZWZ1biBnZXR4ICgpCisgIHgpCisKKyhsZXQgKCh4 IDIpKQorICAoZ2V0LXgpKQorICAgICBAcmVzdWx0e30gMQorQGVuZCBleGFtcGxlCiAKIEBj b2Rle2xldH0gY2FuIGNyZWF0ZSBtb3JlIHRoYW4gb25lIHZhcmlhYmxlIGF0IG9uY2UuICBB bHNvLAogQGNvZGV7bGV0fSBnaXZlcyBlYWNoIHZhcmlhYmxlIGl0IGNyZWF0ZXMgYW4gaW5p dGlhbCB2YWx1ZSwgZWl0aGVyIGEKLS0gCjIuMjUuMQoK --------------pLS8SgkCX4BkOUlIXEdkfVyJ--
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#66756; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Oct 2023 05:55:11 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Oct 26 01:55:11 2023 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60446 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1qvtKo-0004My-IC for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Oct 2023 01:55:11 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:470:142::17]:43392) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>) id 1qvtKj-0004MM-U4 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 26 Oct 2023 01:55:08 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>) id 1qvtK9-0005wW-PX for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Thu, 26 Oct 2023 01:54:29 -0400 Received: from mail-pg1-x535.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::535]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>) id 1qvtK7-0002JQ-Tg for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Thu, 26 Oct 2023 01:54:29 -0400 Received: by mail-pg1-x535.google.com with SMTP id 41be03b00d2f7-5b7f3f470a9so459095a12.0 for <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>; Wed, 25 Oct 2023 22:54:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1698299666; x=1698904466; darn=gnu.org; h=subject:from:to:content-language:mime-version:date:message-id:from :to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=rShmVFDR4DyVRveSrlS+FubbrYm9XYCHRw8xO8Ja6cQ=; b=TBRxaJ2XRLCcT9UgIK8o3zM9z1JS0UbkXgLMYoky2x82CTrc+n7iUZKzehT3r2YI6o fAc3lRg/7KJeO1bI7A8aRV52taaa36RJ7XTkk2ctBjIY+xBAx6g7oRrcktl4qTdDDj8h +c4ejEco0aws0/FB1B8bWX61rTqXaXxSbOshHNMo7Qw2Fnru2BCGOm16+ufbiLoLgGqW NXY9ClS8k21rvEIpecDf8I8gPxMvS0dx+otW3upf5Qnmrv+JejqsoehIp2la2CanV+oo 56Am3fwsbkxUKFZ+JCGiZU6bgesET1kQOWypkiagQUFFwERbib6CkF9rCIOuKwJNyuU0 Lv6g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1698299666; x=1698904466; h=subject:from:to:content-language:mime-version:date:message-id :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=rShmVFDR4DyVRveSrlS+FubbrYm9XYCHRw8xO8Ja6cQ=; b=F1YAkhXpYIgagsPqN36weZ3Yu5hngETGcOezETqVwwR6q1Ob8ltofUJjNizMlDSENo 3HCdICH3ZvizxD5n3ppviVPFkc8rrL+2OzAoNz01g90u1koAMXEr4WDouQstu3O6pBKs sdCsfr0sDGY/CANHaELKO6X5pXv+pVucshWBIVmgYDzZuJW5y5upzLcEnI9WwLzyJsbN lkLMlL8arAEUiS2rCooiSHH2cVQLxzmOsvhJ073RZ9D09Kg9HOJH9H3TcTpDe8BtUvUb vrl/LYeBygXQPkblsgHRCJPc9Lopfe94SaoNGimzb7qohEY7zZe6JnLnvKjcN/Eddx4L NIKg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzRfegh4IDDmF3UJHyD6KOR7wS8yl+4auQqZaAf+9jjm7djdufb iCsgJw0kjDdwn7KnHUsf9ObAFAYGDbQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEG8CrOkngQIMrxJ9x+pitzec8PXClocXjHqEt3+6VOMbl1fgn3/4QAZy+KxxqshO211xnSjA== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:19c2:b0:27f:fa81:8dd9 with SMTP id 2-20020a17090a19c200b0027ffa818dd9mr199371pjj.22.1698299666129; Wed, 25 Oct 2023 22:54:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (cpe-76-168-148-233.socal.res.rr.com. [76.168.148.233]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id mv7-20020a17090b198700b002744cd7e687sm1017751pjb.1.2023.10.25.22.54.25 for <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN> (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 25 Oct 2023 22:54:25 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------TSZQr00hDOQTeZcFlCrzSt2n" Message-ID: <a9812c1d-71e4-5f3f-83a4-a2923e649f3a@HIDDEN> Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2023 22:54:25 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mozilla-News-Host: news://news.gmane.io:119 Content-Language: en-US To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN From: Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN> Subject: 30.0.50; [PATCH] Improve discussion of 'let' in Elisp Introduction manual Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::535; envelope-from=jporterbugs@HIDDEN; helo=mail-pg1-x535.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------TSZQr00hDOQTeZcFlCrzSt2n Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (Spun out from bug#66706. My previous message below.) On 10/25/2023 8:48 PM, Jim Porter wrote: > On 10/25/2023 6:19 PM, Jim Porter wrote: >> I'll start with a patch here then. I think this is also a prime spot >> to add an example or two that would actually show lexical binding in >> action (i.e. a sample where the code would do something different >> under dynamic binding). > > Here's a first attempt. I'm not sure I'm entirely happy with it (the > digression into setting 'lexical-binding' to 't' is a bit disruptive), > but hopefully it's an improvement. Of course, we can keep adjusting this > further as needed. --------------TSZQr00hDOQTeZcFlCrzSt2n Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; name="0001-Introduce-let-using-lexical-binding-in-the-Lisp-Intr.patch" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename*0="0001-Introduce-let-using-lexical-binding-in-the-Lisp-Intr.pa"; filename*1="tch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 RnJvbSA2YmM5YmJiYjk4MTA1ZjcwMGJiOGQ1YjA0ZThkZTVlMjYxZWZhNzc3IE1vbiBTZXAg MTcgMDA6MDA6MDAgMjAwMQpGcm9tOiBKaW0gUG9ydGVyIDxqcG9ydGVyYnVnc0BnbWFpbC5j b20+CkRhdGU6IFdlZCwgMjUgT2N0IDIwMjMgMjA6NDM6NTcgLTA3MDAKU3ViamVjdDogW1BB VENIXSBJbnRyb2R1Y2UgJ2xldCcgdXNpbmcgbGV4aWNhbCBiaW5kaW5nIGluIHRoZSBMaXNw CiBJbnRyb2R1Y3Rpb24KCiogZG9jL2xpc3BpbnRyby9lbWFjcy1saXNwLWludHJvLnRleGkg KFByZXZlbnQgY29uZnVzaW9uKTogUmVuYW1lIHRvLi4uCihXaHkgVXNlIGxldD8pOiAuLi4g dGhpcywgYW5kIHJld29yayB0aGUgZXhwbGFuYXRpb24gdG8gZGlzY3VzcwpsZXhpY2FsIGJp bmRpbmcgKGluY2x1ZGluZyBob3cgdG8gZW5hYmxlIGl0KS4KLS0tCiBkb2MvbGlzcGludHJv L2VtYWNzLWxpc3AtaW50cm8udGV4aSB8IDgxICsrKysrKysrKysrKysrKysrKysrKy0tLS0t LS0tCiAxIGZpbGUgY2hhbmdlZCwgNTggaW5zZXJ0aW9ucygrKSwgMjMgZGVsZXRpb25zKC0p CgpkaWZmIC0tZ2l0IGEvZG9jL2xpc3BpbnRyby9lbWFjcy1saXNwLWludHJvLnRleGkgYi9k b2MvbGlzcGludHJvL2VtYWNzLWxpc3AtaW50cm8udGV4aQppbmRleCBmY2U3NTgzZmU5MS4u ZWJiY2MwOGI5ZmYgMTAwNjQ0Ci0tLSBhL2RvYy9saXNwaW50cm8vZW1hY3MtbGlzcC1pbnRy by50ZXhpCisrKyBiL2RvYy9saXNwaW50cm8vZW1hY3MtbGlzcC1pbnRyby50ZXhpCkBAIC0z NTg3LDM5ICszNTg3LDc0IEBAIGxldAogQGNvZGV7bGV0fSBzcGVjaWFsIGZvcm0gcHJldmVu dHMgdGhpcyBraW5kIG9mIGNvbmZ1c2lvbi4KIAogQG1lbnUKLSogUHJldmVudCBjb25mdXNp b246OgorKiBXaHkgVXNlIGxldD86OgogKiBQYXJ0cyBvZiBsZXQgRXhwcmVzc2lvbjo6CiAq IFNhbXBsZSBsZXQgRXhwcmVzc2lvbjo6CiAqIFVuaW5pdGlhbGl6ZWQgbGV0IFZhcmlhYmxl czo6CiBAZW5kIG1lbnUKIAogQGlmbm90dGV4Ci1Abm9kZSBQcmV2ZW50IGNvbmZ1c2lvbgot QHVubnVtYmVyZWRzdWJzZWMgQGNvZGV7bGV0fSBQcmV2ZW50cyBDb25mdXNpb24KK0Bub2Rl IFdoeSBVc2UgbGV0PworQHVubnVtYmVyZWRzdWJzZWMgV2h5IFVzZSBAY29kZXtsZXR9Pwog QGVuZCBpZm5vdHRleAogCiBAY2luZGV4IEBzYW1we2xvY2FsIHZhcmlhYmxlfSBkZWZpbmVk CiBAY2luZGV4IEBzYW1we3ZhcmlhYmxlLCBsb2NhbH0sIGRlZmluZWQKLVRoZSBAY29kZXts ZXR9IHNwZWNpYWwgZm9ybSBwcmV2ZW50cyBjb25mdXNpb24uICBAY29kZXtsZXR9IGNyZWF0 ZXMgYQotbmFtZSBmb3IgYSBAZGZue2xvY2FsIHZhcmlhYmxlfSB0aGF0IG92ZXJzaGFkb3dz IGFueSB1c2Ugb2YgdGhlIHNhbWUKLW5hbWUgb3V0c2lkZSB0aGUgQGNvZGV7bGV0fSBleHBy ZXNzaW9uLiAgVGhpcyBpcyBsaWtlIHVuZGVyc3RhbmRpbmcKLXRoYXQgd2hlbmV2ZXIgeW91 ciBob3N0IHJlZmVycyB0byBgYHRoZSBob3VzZScnLCBoZSBtZWFucyBoaXMgaG91c2UsIG5v dAoteW91cnMuICAoU3ltYm9scyB1c2VkIGluIGFyZ3VtZW50IGxpc3RzIHdvcmsgdGhlIHNh bWUgd2F5LgotQHhyZWZ7ZGVmdW4sICwgVGhlIEBjb2Rle2RlZnVufSBNYWNyb30uKQotCi1M b2NhbCB2YXJpYWJsZXMgY3JlYXRlZCBieSBhIEBjb2Rle2xldH0gZXhwcmVzc2lvbiByZXRh aW4gdGhlaXIgdmFsdWUKLUBlbXBoe29ubHl9IHdpdGhpbiB0aGUgQGNvZGV7bGV0fSBleHBy ZXNzaW9uIGl0c2VsZiAoYW5kIHdpdGhpbgotZXhwcmVzc2lvbnMgY2FsbGVkIHdpdGhpbiB0 aGUgQGNvZGV7bGV0fSBleHByZXNzaW9uKTsgdGhlIGxvY2FsCi12YXJpYWJsZXMgaGF2ZSBu byBlZmZlY3Qgb3V0c2lkZSB0aGUgQGNvZGV7bGV0fSBleHByZXNzaW9uLgotCi1Bbm90aGVy IHdheSB0byB0aGluayBhYm91dCBAY29kZXtsZXR9IGlzIHRoYXQgaXQgaXMgbGlrZSBhIEBj b2Rle3NldHF9Ci10aGF0IGlzIHRlbXBvcmFyeSBhbmQgbG9jYWwuICBUaGUgdmFsdWVzIHNl dCBieSBAY29kZXtsZXR9IGFyZQotYXV0b21hdGljYWxseSB1bmRvbmUgd2hlbiB0aGUgQGNv ZGV7bGV0fSBpcyBmaW5pc2hlZC4gIFRoZSBzZXR0aW5nCi1vbmx5IGFmZmVjdHMgZXhwcmVz c2lvbnMgdGhhdCBhcmUgaW5zaWRlIHRoZSBib3VuZHMgb2YgdGhlIEBjb2Rle2xldH0KLWV4 cHJlc3Npb24uICBJbiBjb21wdXRlciBzY2llbmNlIGphcmdvbiwgd2Ugd291bGQgc2F5IHRo ZSBiaW5kaW5nIG9mCi1hIHN5bWJvbCBpcyB2aXNpYmxlIG9ubHkgaW4gZnVuY3Rpb25zIGNh bGxlZCBpbiB0aGUgQGNvZGV7bGV0fSBmb3JtOwotaW4gRW1hY3MgTGlzcCwgdGhlIGRlZmF1 bHQgc2NvcGluZyBpcyBkeW5hbWljLCBub3QgbGV4aWNhbC4gIChUaGUKLW5vbi1kZWZhdWx0 IGxleGljYWwgYmluZGluZyBpcyBub3QgZGlzY3Vzc2VkIGluIHRoaXMgbWFudWFsLikKK1Ro ZSBAY29kZXtsZXR9IHNwZWNpYWwgZm9ybSBwcm92aWRlcyBhIHdheSB0byBjb25maW5lIHlv dXIgdmFyaWFibGVzCit0byBhIHBhcnRpY3VsYXIgc2VjdGlvbiBvZiB5b3VyIGNvZGUgKGlu IGNvbXB1dGVyIHNjaWVuY2UgamFyZ29uLCBhCitgYHNjb3BlJycpLiAgQGNvZGV7bGV0fSBj cmVhdGVzIGEgbmFtZSBmb3IgYSBAZGZue2xvY2FsIHZhcmlhYmxlfSB0aGF0CitvdmVyc2hh ZG93cyBhbnkgdXNlIG9mIHRoZSBzYW1lIG5hbWUgb3V0c2lkZSB0aGUgQGNvZGV7bGV0fSBl eHByZXNzaW9uCisod2UgY2FsbCB0aGlzIGBgYmluZGluZycnIHRoZSB2YXJpYWJsZSkuICBU aGlzIHByZXZlbnRzIGFueSBhY2NpZGVudGFsCit1c2FnZSBvZiB0aGVzZSB2YXJpYWJsZXMg b3V0c2lkZSBvZiB0aGUgQGNvZGV7bGV0fSBleHByZXNzaW9uLiAgVGhpcworaXMgbGlrZSB1 bmRlcnN0YW5kaW5nIHRoYXQgd2hlbmV2ZXIgeW91ciBob3N0IHJlZmVycyB0byBgYHRoZSBo b3VzZScnLAoraGUgbWVhbnMgaGlzIGhvdXNlLCBub3QgeW91cnMuICAoU3ltYm9scyB1c2Vk IGluIGFyZ3VtZW50IGxpc3RzIHdvcmsKK3RoZSBzYW1lIHdheS4gIEB4cmVme2RlZnVuLCAs IFRoZSBAY29kZXtkZWZ1bn0gTWFjcm99LikKKworQGNpbmRleCBsZXhpY2FsIGJpbmRpbmcK K0BjaW5kZXggYmluZGluZywgbGV4aWNhbAorQGNpbmRleCBkeW5hbWljIGJpbmRpbmcKK0Bj aW5kZXggYmluZGluZywgZHluYW1pYworQmVmb3JlIHdlIGJlZ2luIGRpc2N1c3NpbmcgQGNv ZGV7bGV0fSBpbiBkZXRhaWwsIHdlIG11c3QgZmlyc3QgbWVudGlvbgorYW4gaW1wb3J0YW50 IG5vdGUuICBGb3IgaGlzdG9yaWNhbCByZWFzb25zLCBFbWFjcyBMaXNwIHVzZXMgYSBmb3Jt IG9mCit2YXJpYWJsZSBiaW5kaW5nIGNhbGxlZCBgYGR5bmFtaWMgYmluZGluZycnLiAgSG93 ZXZlciwgdGhpcyBtYW51YWwKK3dpbGwgZGlzY3VzcyB0aGUgcHJlZmVycmVkIGZvcm0gb2Yg YmluZGluZywgY2FsbGVkIGBgbGV4aWNhbCBiaW5kaW5nJycKKyhpZiB5b3UgaGF2ZSBwcm9n cmFtbWVkIGluIG90aGVyIGxhbmd1YWdlcyBiZWZvcmUsIHlvdSdyZSBsaWtlbHkKK2FscmVh ZHkgZmFtaWxpYXIgd2l0aCBob3cgbGV4aWNhbCBiaW5kaW5nIGJlaGF2ZXMpLiAgSW4gb3Jk ZXIgdG8gdXNlCitsZXhpY2FsIGJpbmRpbmcsIHlvdSBzaG91bGQgYWRkIHNvbWV0aGluZyBs aWtlIHRoaXMgdG8gdGhlIGZpcnN0IGxpbmUKK29mIHlvdXIgRW1hY3MgTGlzcCBmaWxlOgor CitAZXhhbXBsZQorOzs7IC0qLSBsZXhpY2FsLWJpbmRpbmc6IHQgLSotCitAZW5kIGV4YW1w bGUKKworRm9yIG1vcmUgaW5mb3JtYXRpb24gYWJvdXQgdGhpcywgQHB4cmVme1NlbGVjdGlu ZyBMaXNwIERpYWxlY3QsICwgLAorZWxpc3AsIFRoZSBFbWFjcyBMaXNwIFJlZmVyZW5jZSBN YW51YWx9LgorCitXaXRoIHRoYXQgb3V0IG9mIHRoZSB3YXksIHdlIGNhbiByZXR1cm4gdG8g ZGlzY3Vzc2luZyBAY29kZXtsZXR9LgorTG9jYWwgdmFyaWFibGVzIGNyZWF0ZWQgYnkgYSBA Y29kZXtsZXR9IGV4cHJlc3Npb24gaG9sZCB0aGVpciB2YWx1ZQorQGVtcGh7b25seX0gd2l0 aGluIHRoZSBib2R5IG9mIHRoZSBAY29kZXtsZXR9IGV4cHJlc3Npb24gaXRzZWxmOyB0aGUK K2xvY2FsIHZhcmlhYmxlcyBoYXZlIG5vIGVmZmVjdCBvdXRzaWRlIG9mIHRoZSBAY29kZXts ZXR9IGV4cHJlc3Npb24uCitUaGlzIG1lYW5zIHRoYXQgaW5zaWRlIHRoZSBAY29kZXtsZXR9 IGJvZHksIGNhbGxpbmcgQGNvZGV7c2V0cX0KK2ZvciBhIHZhcmlhYmxlIG5hbWVkIGJ5IHRo ZSBAY29kZXtsZXR9IGV4cHJlc3Npb24gd2lsbCBzZXQgdGhlIHZhbHVlCitvZiB0aGUgQGVt cGh7bG9jYWx9IHZhcmlhYmxlIG9mIHRoYXQgbmFtZS4gIFRoaXMgYWxzbyBtZWFucyB0aGF0 CitvdXRzaWRlIG9mIHRoZSBAY29kZXtsZXR9IGJvZHksIGNhbGxpbmcgQGNvZGV7c2V0cX0g Zm9yIGEgdmFyaWFibGUKK25hbWVkIGJ5IHRoZSBAY29kZXtsZXR9IGV4cHJlc3Npb24gd2ls bCBAZW1waHtub3R9IGFmZmVjdCB0aGF0IGxvY2FsCit2YXJpYWJsZS4KKworRm9yIGV4YW1w bGUsIGlmIHlvdSBjYWxsIGEgZnVuY3Rpb24gaW5zaWRlIG9mIGEgQGNvZGV7bGV0fQorYm9k eSwgdGhhdCBmdW5jdGlvbidzIGJvZHkgd291bGQgYmUgdW5hYmxlIHRvIGBgc2VlJycgKG9y IG1vZGlmeSkgdGhlCit2YWx1ZSBvZiBhIGxvY2FsIHZhcmlhYmxlIGZyb20gdGhlIEBjb2Rl e2xldH0gZXhwcmVzc2lvbjoKKworQGV4YW1wbGUKKyhzZXRxIHggMSkKKworKGRlZnVuIGdl dHggKCkKKyAgeCkKKworKGxldCAoKHggMikpCisgIChnZXQteCkpCisgICAgIEByZXN1bHR7 fSAxCitAZW5kIGV4YW1wbGUKIAogQGNvZGV7bGV0fSBjYW4gY3JlYXRlIG1vcmUgdGhhbiBv bmUgdmFyaWFibGUgYXQgb25jZS4gIEFsc28sCiBAY29kZXtsZXR9IGdpdmVzIGVhY2ggdmFy aWFibGUgaXQgY3JlYXRlcyBhbiBpbml0aWFsIHZhbHVlLCBlaXRoZXIgYQotLSAKMi4yNS4x Cgo= --------------TSZQr00hDOQTeZcFlCrzSt2n--
Jim Porter <jporterbugs@HIDDEN>:bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.
Full text available.bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#66756; Package emacs.
Full text available.
GNU bug tracking system
Copyright (C) 1999 Darren O. Benham,
1997 nCipher Corporation Ltd,
1994-97 Ian Jackson.