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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#66991: Confusion in interactive-form with commands with
bare interactive forms.
In-Reply-To: <ZUtNSpB2H4pGcArQ@ACM> (Alan Mackenzie's message of "Wed, 8 Nov
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<ZUpvapul64hc0svD@ACM> <jwv5y2d31u6.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN>
<ZUtNSpB2H4pGcArQ@ACM>
Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2023 07:29:10 -0500
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> What about replacing (interactive "") with (interactive) too, and
> documenting this?
Why?
> The doc string says that "Return the interactive form of CMD, or nil
> ....". But you seem to be arguing that there is no unique _THE_
> interactive form.
The interactive form is either a string or code. When it's a string,
I expect you get the one and only `(interactive THE-STRING)`, but when
it's not a string ... well ... by definition the compiler changes the
representation of code so it's completely expected that you won't get
necessarily quite the same code (as long as its execution is equivalent).
> The doc string doesn't make this clear, and needs amending anyway.
Maybe, but I don't understand why you think it's necessary.
> To fix only the doc string rather than the code too, would double the
> doc string's size.
And this suggests we should also document `symbol-function` to say that
it may not return something identical to what you wrote in the
source code.
Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#66991; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 66991) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Nov 2023 08:57:31 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Nov 08 03:57:31 2023 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43986 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1r0eNO-0002Gw-P8 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 08 Nov 2023 03:57:31 -0500 Received: from mail.muc.de ([193.149.48.3]:60935) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <acm@HIDDEN>) id 1r0eNM-0002Ge-6Y for 66991 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 08 Nov 2023 03:57:28 -0500 Received: (qmail 91342 invoked by uid 3782); 8 Nov 2023 09:56:43 +0100 Received: from acm.muc.de (p4fe1584b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [79.225.88.75]) (using STARTTLS) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 08 Nov 2023 09:56:42 +0100 Received: (qmail 21734 invoked by uid 1000); 8 Nov 2023 08:56:42 -0000 Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2023 08:56:42 +0000 To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#66991: Confusion in interactive-form with commands with bare interactive forms. Message-ID: <ZUtNSpB2H4pGcArQ@ACM> References: <ZUpoGwHli-EqtLk8@ACM> <83wmut1pb1.fsf@HIDDEN> <ZUpvapul64hc0svD@ACM> <jwv5y2d31u6.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <jwv5y2d31u6.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> X-Submission-Agent: TMDA/1.3.x (Ph3nix) From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN> X-Primary-Address: acm@HIDDEN X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66991 Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 66991 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hello, Stefan. On Tue, Nov 07, 2023 at 12:38:34 -0500, Stefan Monnier wrote: > > I get a failure in /test/src/comp-tests.log in test > > comp-tests-interactive-form, where the test is expecting > > (interactive) > > but the result of running the test innards is > > (interactive nil) > I'd argue the test should accept either form. > > .. I don't understand why I'm only seeing this test failure now. > Indeed, it's odd. > > Maybe it's a new test. > `git log test/lisp/emacs-lisp/comp-tests.el` suggests there's been no > activity there of late. > > OK. :-) But I think fixing data.c will be easier and cleaner than > > fixing all the tests which might test it. > I wouldn't call it a fix because I don't think the current behavior is > broken, but I see no problem with `interactive-form` replacing > `(interactive)` for `(interactive nil)` when it can do so cheaply. > It may break other (broken) tests, of course. What about replacing (interactive "") with (interactive) too, and documenting this? The doc string says that "Return the interactive form of CMD, or nil ....". But you seem to be arguing that there is no unique _THE_ interactive form. Just three possibilities for _AN_ interactive form. The doc string doesn't make this clear, and needs amending anyway. To fix only the doc string rather than the code too, would double the doc string's size. > Stefan -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#66991; Package emacs.
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#66991: Confusion in interactive-form with commands with
bare interactive forms.
In-Reply-To: <ZUpvapul64hc0svD@ACM> (Alan Mackenzie's message of "Tue, 7 Nov
2023 17:10:02 +0000")
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> I get a failure in /test/src/comp-tests.log in test
> comp-tests-interactive-form, where the test is expecting
>
> (interactive)
>
> but the result of running the test innards is
>
> (interactive nil)
I'd argue the test should accept either form.
> .. I don't understand why I'm only seeing this test failure now.
Indeed, it's odd.
> Maybe it's a new test.
`git log test/lisp/emacs-lisp/comp-tests.el` suggests there's been no
activity there of late.
> OK. :-) But I think fixing data.c will be easier and cleaner than
> fixing all the tests which might test it.
I wouldn't call it a fix because I don't think the current behavior is
broken, but I see no problem with `interactive-form` replacing
`(interactive)` for `(interactive nil)` when it can do so cheaply.
It may break other (broken) tests, of course.
Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#66991; Package emacs.
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#66991: Confusion in interactive-form with commands with
bare interactive forms.
In-Reply-To: <83wmut1pb1.fsf@HIDDEN> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 07 Nov
2023 18:49:38 +0200")
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>> (interactive-form 'x-print-frames-dialog) => (interactive "") # a primitive
>>
>> (interactive-form 'universal-argument) => (interactive nil) # a native
>> compiled command.
Both seem acceptable: the form can be either a string interpreted
internally by `call-interactively` or an expression whose value will
be the list of arguments. It so happens that the interpretation of ""
results in an empty list of args, just like nil. There might be
commands out there which use alternative ways to express such an empty
list, such as
(interactive 'nil)
[ Presumably as a result of macro expansion of something like
...(interactive ',args)... ]
or
(interactive (< 4 3))
[ Presumably the result of a prank or some such :-) ]
Where/why do you need the representation to be more ... canonical?
>> The result is the same from a byte compiled command.
>>
>> Write (defun foo () (interactive)) in *scratch*, and C-M-x to evaluate
>> it:
>> (interactive-form 'foo) => (interactive).
For non-compiled functions, we just use `assq` on the body.
It's arguably not 100% correct, but it gets the job done cheaply.
It usually doesn't matter because `cadr` on this result is still nil.
>> That's three different inconsistent ways of expressing "(interactive".
Different, yes, but I don't see what's inconsistent about it, except
maybe for the fact that `interactive-form` can change from
`(interactive)` for an interpreted function to
`(interactive nil)` for the same function once it's byte-compiled, but
note that `(interactive EXP)` will generally change once byte-compiled
because EXP gets byte-compiled as well, so you generally can't presume
that `interactive-form` returns the exact same data-structure before and
after byte-compilation: the two should be "equivalent" but not
necessarily identical.
Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#66991; Package emacs.
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Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2023 17:10:02 +0000
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#66991: Confusion in interactive-form with commands with bare
interactive forms.
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From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN>
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Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
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Hello, Eli.
On Tue, Nov 07, 2023 at 18:49:38 +0200, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2023 16:38:51 +0000
> > From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN>
> > Consider commands with no arguments, and do interactive-form on them:
> > (interactive-form 'x-print-frames-dialog) => (interactive "") # a primitive
> > (interactive-form 'universal-argument) => (interactive nil) # a native
> > compiled command.
> > The result is the same from a byte compiled command.
> > Write (defun foo () (interactive)) in *scratch*, and C-M-x to evaluate
> > it:
> > (interactive-form 'foo) => (interactive).
> > That's three different inconsistent ways of expressing "(interactive".
> > This is a bug. For consistency's sake, two of them must be incorrect.
> Why? Please explain in more positive terms why two out of three must
> be bugs, not just in some abstract philosophical terms.
I get a failure in /test/src/comp-tests.log in test
comp-tests-interactive-form, where the test is expecting
(interactive)
but the result of running the test innards is
(interactive nil)
.. I don't understand why I'm only seeing this test failure now. Maybe
it's a new test.
Also, I think consistency in this sort of thing is a Good Thing.
> > I believe the correct one is the last of these, "(interactive)" which is
> > after all, what appears in the Lisp sources. The fix should be
> > relatively simple, in Finteractive_form in src/data.c
> Please wait with implementing a fix until we discuss the issue and
> decide whether and how it should be fixed.
OK. :-) But I think fixing data.c will be easier and cleaner than
fixing all the tests which might test it.
> Adding Stefan to the discussion.
--
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#66991; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 66991) by debbugs.gnu.org; 7 Nov 2023 16:50:46 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Nov 07 11:50:46 2023 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43185 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1r0PHq-0006vq-FB for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 07 Nov 2023 11:50:46 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:47394) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1r0PHo-0006ve-VJ for 66991 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 07 Nov 2023 11:50:45 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1r0PH5-0003kC-Ud; Tue, 07 Nov 2023 11:49:59 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=LiYBFVLkUxwid8kqiyP1z35Hiq9MlV33ddS8yS1c3s0=; b=mURNWN7YkMy0 xHpaKpjGQr2ZzRO7CQb7NJqM+1aV3tC+hdDdS6Uc77wRwQUiq/s+3/n4VT0dFZoGKgLvJ6E6ZqJgG BwJKOzeWCnyBAhoozi2MVAo0AlsqHfeopl2JnzBxugOY+XcYVFPBPQH/iv2GDZESBnVfUN52Uv8o8 WesKN45WmA/K9fEdr5er8oGequ28X7UCdDv7mYAQa9OwReRopK7MFAzkVzb5RBuR35i3P2nME0dLJ Vl+6ba9UcagcSWFprQHY5btL1Qs3HiUEKTQCybOz6vVOb8u/ZanNN2mcrYEUV+wvHCu1nHZEvYum3 Qm6Yw2JKJGykONnYcCuTpQ==; Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2023 18:49:38 +0200 Message-Id: <83wmut1pb1.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN>, Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <ZUpoGwHli-EqtLk8@ACM> (message from Alan Mackenzie on Tue, 7 Nov 2023 16:38:51 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#66991: Confusion in interactive-form with commands with bare interactive forms. References: <ZUpoGwHli-EqtLk8@ACM> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 66991 Cc: 66991 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2023 16:38:51 +0000 > From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN> > > Consider commands with no arguments, and do interactive-form on them: > > (interactive-form 'x-print-frames-dialog) => (interactive "") # a primitive > > (interactive-form 'universal-argument) => (interactive nil) # a native > compiled command. > The result is the same from a byte compiled command. > > Write (defun foo () (interactive)) in *scratch*, and C-M-x to evaluate > it: > (interactive-form 'foo) => (interactive). > > That's three different inconsistent ways of expressing "(interactive". > This is a bug. For consistency's sake, two of them must be incorrect. Why? Please explain in more positive terms why two out of three must be bugs, not just in some abstract philosophical terms. > I believe the correct one is the last of these, "(interactive)" which is > after all, what appears in the Lisp sources. The fix should be > relatively simple, in Finteractive_form in src/data.c Please wait with implementing a fix until we discuss the issue and decide whether and how it should be fixed. Adding Stefan to the discussion.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#66991; Package emacs.
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Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2023 16:38:51 +0000
To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
Subject: Confusion in interactive-form with commands with bare interactive
forms.
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Hello, Emacs
Consider commands with no arguments, and do interactive-form on them:
(interactive-form 'x-print-frames-dialog) => (interactive "") # a primitive
(interactive-form 'universal-argument) => (interactive nil) # a native
compiled command.
The result is the same from a byte compiled command.
Write (defun foo () (interactive)) in *scratch*, and C-M-x to evaluate
it:
(interactive-form 'foo) => (interactive).
That's three different inconsistent ways of expressing "(interactive".
This is a bug. For consistency's sake, two of them must be incorrect.
I believe the correct one is the last of these, "(interactive)" which is
after all, what appears in the Lisp sources. The fix should be
relatively simple, in Finteractive_form in src/data.c
--
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).
Alan Mackenzie <acm@HIDDEN>:bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.
Full text available.bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#66991; Package emacs.
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