GNU logs - #67430, boring messages

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Subject: bug#67430: 29.1; <Multi_key> is undefined
Resent-From: Francesco =?UTF-8?Q?Potort=C3=AC?= <pot@HIDDEN>
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When I run Emacs I can use the X compose key.  Apparently X interprets it s=
o that it is invisible to Emacs, and in fact I cannot see it in the lossage.

When I run Emacs over Xpra, apparently Xpra passes the compose key to Emacs=
.  I would expect it to do the same as C-x8 does, but this is not the case.=
  In fact, I get the error message "<Multi_key> is undefined".

I just corrected the problem with (keymap-global-set "<Multi_key>" iso-tran=
sl-ctl-x-8-map), but I wonder why this is necessary at all.  I think this b=
inding should be the default.

=2D-=20
Francesco Potort=C3=AC (ricercatore)        Mobile: +39.348.8283.107
ISTI - Area della ricerca CNR          Skype:  wnlabisti
via G. Moruzzi 1, I-56124 Pisa         Web:    http://fly.isti.cnr.it
(gate 20, 1st floor, room C71)         ISPIN:  https://ieee-jispin.org/


In GNU Emacs 29.1 (build 2, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, X toolkit, cairo version 1=
.16.0, Xaw3d scroll
 bars) of 2023-08-30, modified by Debian built on x86-csail-01
Windowing system distributor 'The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.12101009
System Description: Debian GNU/Linux trixie/sid

Configured using:
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r/lib
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Important settings:
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Major mode: Man

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~/elisp/bibtex hides /usr/share/emacs/29.1/lisp/textmodes/bibtex
~/elisp/octave hides /usr/share/emacs/29.1/lisp/progmodes/octave
/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/flim/sasl hides /usr/share/emacs/29.1/lisp/net/s=
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/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/elpa/dictionary-1.10/dictionary hides /usr/share=
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/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/elpa/seq-2.24/seq hides /usr/share/emacs/29.1/li=
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/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/multi-prompt hides /usr/share/auctex/mult=
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/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/toolbar-x hides /usr/share/auctex/toolbar=
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/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/context hides /usr/share/auctex/context
/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/tex-style hides /usr/share/auctex/tex-sty=
le
/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/bib-cite hides /usr/share/auctex/bib-cite
/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/preview hides /usr/share/auctex/preview
/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/tex-mik hides /usr/share/auctex/tex-mik
/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/plain-tex hides /usr/share/auctex/plain-t=
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/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/font-latex hides /usr/share/auctex/font-l=
atex
/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/tex-ispell hides /usr/share/auctex/tex-is=
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/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/context-nl hides /usr/share/auctex/contex=
t-nl
/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/tex-font hides /usr/share/auctex/tex-font
/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/tex-bar hides /usr/share/auctex/tex-bar
/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/prv-emacs hides /usr/share/auctex/prv-ema=
cs
/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/tex-buf hides /usr/share/auctex/tex-buf
/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/context-en hides /usr/share/auctex/contex=
t-en
/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/latex-flymake hides /usr/share/auctex/lat=
ex-flymake
/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/tex hides /usr/share/auctex/tex
/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/texmathp hides /usr/share/auctex/texmathp
/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/tex-info hides /usr/share/auctex/tex-info
/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/latex hides /usr/share/auctex/latex
/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/tex-fold hides /usr/share/auctex/tex-fold
/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/auctex/tex-jp hides /usr/share/auctex/tex-jp

Features:
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compile misearch multi-isearch time-stamp mule-util cal-julian solar cal-ds=
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uni-scripts idna-mapping ucs-normalize uni-confusable textsec-check shr pix=
el-fill kinsoku
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calendar cal-loaddefs tramp tramp-loaddefs trampver tramp-integration files=
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parse auth-source
cl-seq eieio eieio-core cl-macs password-cache json subr-x map byte-opt gv =
bytecomp byte-compile
url-vars cl-loaddefs cl-lib rmc iso-transl tooltip cconv eldoc paren electr=
ic uniquify
ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type elisp-mode mwheel term/x-win x-win term=
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tool-bar dnd fontset image regexp-opt fringe tabulated-list replace newcomm=
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lisp-mode prog-mode register page tab-bar menu-bar rfn-eshadow isearch easy=
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seq simple cl-generic indonesian philippine cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-l=
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epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help abbrev obarray oclosure cl-preloaded button loa=
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faces cus-face macroexp files window text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base6=
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eads dbusbind inotify
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ty
make-network-process native-compile emacs)

Memory information:
((conses 16 837501 113651)
 (symbols 48 28410 17)
 (strings 32 163389 30051)
 (string-bytes 1 7006794)
 (vectors 16 81115)
 (vector-slots 8 2223193 180941)
 (floats 8 758 1673)
 (intervals 56 48844 7777)
 (buffers 984 54))

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From: help-debbugs@HIDDEN (GNU bug Tracking System)
To: Francesco =?UTF-8?Q?Potort=C3=AC?= <pot@HIDDEN>
Subject: bug#67430: Acknowledgement (29.1; <Multi_key> is undefined)
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Subject: bug#67430: 29.1; <Multi_key> is undefined
Resent-From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>
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To: Francesco =?UTF-8?Q?Potort=C3=AC?= <pot@HIDDEN>
Cc: 67430 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <878r6npfu5.fsf@HIDDEN> ("Francesco =?UTF-8?Q?Potort=C3=AC?="'s
 message of "Fri, 24 Nov 2023 12:10:10 +0100")
References: <878r6npfu5.fsf@HIDDEN>
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Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2023 07:47:49 +0800
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Francesco Potort=C3=AC <pot@HIDDEN> writes:

> When I run Emacs I can use the X compose key.  Apparently X interprets
> it so that it is invisible to Emacs, and in fact I cannot see it in
> the lossage.
>
> When I run Emacs over Xpra, apparently Xpra passes the compose key to
> Emacs.  I would expect it to do the same as C-x8 does, but this is not
> the case.  In fact, I get the error message "<Multi_key> is
> undefined".
>
> I just corrected the problem with (keymap-global-set "<Multi_key>"
> iso-transl-ctl-x-8-map), but I wonder why this is necessary at all.  I
> think this binding should be the default.

Multi_key isn't uniformly the Compose key, so I'd rather not make such
rash choices.  My opinion isn't particularly strong in this regard,
however, and perhaps this isn't a one-off.  If anyone reading this has
experienced such problems before, please make yourself known.

Message sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:

Subject: bug#67430: 29.1; <Multi_key> is undefined
Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
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To: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>
Cc: 67430 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, pot@HIDDEN
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2023 10:19:42 +0200
Message-Id: <83fs0udz35.fsf@HIDDEN>
From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <s7r5y1q7ly2.fsf@HIDDEN> (bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN)
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> Cc: 67430 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2023 07:47:49 +0800
> From:  Po Lu via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs,
>  the Swiss army knife of text editors" <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>
> 
> Francesco Potortì <pot@HIDDEN> writes:
> 
> > When I run Emacs I can use the X compose key.  Apparently X interprets
> > it so that it is invisible to Emacs, and in fact I cannot see it in
> > the lossage.
> >
> > When I run Emacs over Xpra, apparently Xpra passes the compose key to
> > Emacs.  I would expect it to do the same as C-x8 does, but this is not
> > the case.  In fact, I get the error message "<Multi_key> is
> > undefined".
> >
> > I just corrected the problem with (keymap-global-set "<Multi_key>"
> > iso-transl-ctl-x-8-map), but I wonder why this is necessary at all.  I
> > think this binding should be the default.
> 
> Multi_key isn't uniformly the Compose key, so I'd rather not make such
> rash choices.  My opinion isn't particularly strong in this regard,
> however, and perhaps this isn't a one-off.  If anyone reading this has
> experienced such problems before, please make yourself known.

What other roles does this key play?  And how frequent is each role?

Also, if we bind this key by default as Francesco suggests, what
adverse results could this cause on the systems where this binding is
wrong?

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Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:

> What other roles does this key play?  And how frequent is each role?

I don't know.  There is generally no other use for it under X, except
perhaps as a modifier key, which if true Emacs won't register key
presses at all.

> Also, if we bind this key by default as Francesco suggests, what
> adverse results could this cause on the systems where this binding is
> wrong?

Nothing beyond the obvious, to wit: Emacs will react to pressing the
Multi_key as though it were bound to iso-transl-ctl-x-8-map.

Thanks.

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> From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>
> Cc: pot@HIDDEN,  67430 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2023 19:10:15 +0800
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:
> 
> > What other roles does this key play?  And how frequent is each role?
> 
> I don't know.  There is generally no other use for it under X, except
> perhaps as a modifier key, which if true Emacs won't register key
> presses at all.
> 
> > Also, if we bind this key by default as Francesco suggests, what
> > adverse results could this cause on the systems where this binding is
> > wrong?
> 
> Nothing beyond the obvious, to wit: Emacs will react to pressing the
> Multi_key as though it were bound to iso-transl-ctl-x-8-map.

Then maybe we should behave by default as Francesco suggested?  users
which don't like the results could always unbind/rebind the key.
WDYT?

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>> From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>
>> Cc: pot@HIDDEN,  67430 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>> Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2023 19:10:15 +0800
>>=20
>> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:
>>=20
>> > What other roles does this key play?  And how frequent is each role?
>>=20
>> I don't know.  There is generally no other use for it under X, except
>> perhaps as a modifier key, which if true Emacs won't register key
>> presses at all.
>>=20
>> > Also, if we bind this key by default as Francesco suggests, what
>> > adverse results could this cause on the systems where this binding is
>> > wrong?
>>=20
>> Nothing beyond the obvious, to wit: Emacs will react to pressing the
>> Multi_key as though it were bound to iso-transl-ctl-x-8-map.
>
>Then maybe we should behave by default as Francesco suggested?  users
>which don't like the results could always unbind/rebind the key.
>WDYT?

In mormal usage, Emacs never even sees <Multi_key>.  I suppose that Emacs, =
like usual X applications, relies on X to interpret it as a modifier key, a=
nd X uses its composition rules.  But Xpra apparently is another piece of c=
ake (at least the version I am using) and it passes the key as-is.  I think=
 that this is unusual behaviour.

If Emacs happens to see <Multi_key>, maybe in principle it should ask X to =
interpret the subsequent characters using X's composition rules.  I don't k=
now if that's possible in a clean way, I suppose that would not be obvious =
to do.  Lacking such functionality, I think the only reasonable thing to do=
 is to interpretet is as C-x 8, which has composition rules mostly compatib=
le with those of X.  So in most cases this will be transparent to the user.=
  I don't see how throwing an error instead can be better.  And yes, in pri=
nciple users can rebind it.

An alternative would be to bind <Multi_key> to a command which is disabled =
by default (like for example narrow-to-page), and when enabled does the sam=
e as C-x 8.  But I think that binding it by default is simpler and has so r=
are and technical drawbacks that people caring it about are aware of the is=
sue and can solve it.

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Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:

> Then maybe we should behave by default as Francesco suggested?  users
> which don't like the results could always unbind/rebind the key.
> WDYT?

Sure, no complaints here.

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> From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>
> Cc: pot@HIDDEN,  67430 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2023 09:36:43 +0800
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:
> 
> > Then maybe we should behave by default as Francesco suggested?  users
> > which don't like the results could always unbind/rebind the key.
> > WDYT?
> 
> Sure, no complaints here.

Francesco, can you suggest a patch?  I guess the binding should be in
bindings.el?

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>
>> From: Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>
>> Cc: pot@HIDDEN,  67430 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>> Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2023 09:36:43 +0800
>>=20
>> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:
>>=20
>> > Then maybe we should behave by default as Francesco suggested?  users
>> > which don't like the results could always unbind/rebind the key.
>> > WDYT?
>>=20
>> Sure, no complaints here.
>
>Francesco, can you suggest a patch?  I guess the binding should be in
>bindings.el?

Here you are.  Would plese someone install it for me?

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
2023-11-28  Francesco Potort=C3=AC  <pot@HIDDEN>

	* bindings.el.gz: do something reasonable when [Multi_key] reaches Emacs

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
diff -pub --label \#\<buffer\ \*Shell\ Command\ Output\*\> --label \#\<buff=
er\ bindings.el.gz\> /tmp/buffer-content-V4r3U2 /tmp/buffer-content-1J4L5p
=2D-- #<buffer *Shell Command Output*>
+++ #<buffer bindings.el.gz>
@@ -981,6 +981,10 @@ if `inhibit-field-text-motion' is non-ni
 ;; suspend only the relevant terminal.
 (substitute-key-definition 'suspend-emacs 'suspend-frame global-map)
=20
+;; Usually Emacs does not see this event, as composition is managed by
+;; the desktop manager, but in case it sees it do something reasonable
+(global-set-key [Multi_key] iso-transl-ctl-x-8-map)
+
 (define-key global-map "\C-m" 'newline)
 (define-key global-map "\C-o" 'open-line)
 (define-key esc-map "\C-o" 'split-line)

Diff finished.  Tue Nov 28 12:12:39 2023

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> From: Francesco Potortì <pot@HIDDEN>
> Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2023 12:17:25 +0100
> Cc: 67430 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
> 	Po Lu <luangruo@HIDDEN>
> 
> >Francesco, can you suggest a patch?  I guess the binding should be in
> >bindings.el?
> 
> Here you are.  Would plese someone install it for me?

Thanks, but does that really work in a fresh build?  iso-transl.el is
loaded by loadup.el _after_ bindings.el, so when bindings.el is
loaded, iso-transl-ctl-x-8-map is not yet known.  Shouldn't we have a
defvar for it in bindings.el?

Last modified: Tue, 28 Nov 2023 14:45:01 UTC

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