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Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2024 09:12:07 +0000
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Subject: Re: bug#67611: [PATCH] Add a Pcase pattern `cl-lambda` equivalent to
`cl-destructuring-bind`
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On Wed, Jan 17, 2024 at 3:29=E2=80=AFAM Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> wrot=
e:
> Could you tell me more concretely what this proposed feature would
> look like in use? Perhaps with an example including context?
Many examples in the patch, have you looked?
> pcase does not use lambda lists, and neither does cond*.
Pcase it extensible for any object structure the user may
think of you can think of. This proposal is an extension.
Here's an example
(pcase some-mistery-object
((cl-arglist (42 &key a b c)) ; this proposal
(message "Oh, it starts it 42 and has c=3D%s" c))
(`(,_ ,x ,_)
(message "Boring three-element list with middle %s" x))
(`[,_ ,x ,_]
(message "Fancy vector with middle %s" x))
((franklinboing (nixneez)) ; my data-structure
(message "This franklinboing has some nice nixneez %s=3D" nizneez)))
Jo=C3=A3o
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67611; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 67611) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Jan 2024 03:30:06 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Jan 16 22:30:06 2024 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50301 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1rPwcw-0006xE-BI for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Jan 2024 22:30:06 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:57024) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1rPwcu-0006lg-MN for 67611 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Jan 2024 22:30:05 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1rPwco-0000wK-KO; Tue, 16 Jan 2024 22:29:58 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=S9GqPm8eW4qwdYSXhLsmgngZjubJyFRc8cvn9lAs3Gw=; b=flYZXogeD2P0 Fb0eUqKj1MSiCTZZyhZKUgLNDm1tCwNTRRRu8PeLhAx2rmlvLc2wjnP/M5fgkh98wBm4YFYKy+Iyu jgQ16byOVjaV2wy2BmMaveKntbRU9zKcCh4BJ0K62T98NWuAxvGRvXFLusbrgPlBJVT64vZE9FH0a bBtKzRpXDnyADSsHHsC/gjZY53MOgbT+7xWiI+KNLH7I/WtrrkmTgh1uUr8FB0UueXNNNL9jSJoiV BQhb1yJoR7yp3eNnsji8j40yRBDFeZr43yPLvT73SS6BhwjXekmydKxQ5pl3kmGMg2jZ7kXEyJdB5 XkvNhXg2wF5tSNAWxNEg2g==; Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1rPwcn-0004ln-Ml; Tue, 16 Jan 2024 22:29:57 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jo=C3=A3o_T=C3=A1vora?= <joaotavora@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <875xzw4ngq.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jo=C3?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?=A3o_T=C3=A1vora?= on Sun, 14 Jan 2024 03:12:53 +0000) Subject: Re: bug#67611: [PATCH] Add a Pcase pattern `cl-lambda` equivalent to `cl-destructuring-bind` References: <277dd49a-e96d-4faf-a22e-aca952354a37@HIDDEN> <jwvplzllrrm.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <30f1bf76-1cf1-493e-be4f-38e405d0ecf6@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=7bc5__WNzZftWt01cnQt4NpnFez+LmqJo9qnieN2nCQ@HIDDEN> <CALDnm51VjpjCp4xLPfQ-qR1iwxdDc5XX0i3=8M1vW6vUDizMTw@HIDDEN> <jwvwmsfntmc.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <CALDnm52=voD5PrnsU58wQR1omwymYdUALEAueqsQTZujU6i0rQ@HIDDEN> <jwvle8uefqj.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <E1rOqrI-0007yP-Kg@HIDDEN> <875xzw4ngq.fsf@HIDDEN> Message-Id: <E1rPwcn-0004ln-Ml@HIDDEN> Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2024 22:29:57 -0500 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 67611 Cc: 67611 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Reply-To: rms@HIDDEN Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > Would someone please tell me what syntax is being proposed here, > > and show me an example, saying what it would mean? > Common-lisp style lambda lists. The ones containing the &key and > &optional with more features. Thanks for answering, but its meaning is not concretely clear to me. Could you tell me more concretely what this proposed feature would look like in use? Perhaps with an example including context? pcase does not use lambda lists, and neither does cond*. They are based on the backquote construct, which does not use &-keywords. I see a danger of conceptual incoherence here. If we want to extend the kinds of constructs for destructuring lists, we should extend the features of backquote. That would give a more coherent interface. We could define ,? to specify an element that might br missing, and ,& to specify a keyword argument. These could work in backquote for constructing lists as well as in destructiring. (let ((x 9) (y 10) (z nil) (u 11) (v nil) (w '(12 13))) `(a ,x ,?y ,?z ,&(foo u) ,&(bar v) . ,w)) => (a 9 10 foo 11 12 13) That is my first stab at the design. I think it is better, for this purpose, than using parmlist keywords. But maybe with more thinking we can find improvements. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67611; Package emacs.
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bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67611; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 67611) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Jan 2024 03:08:36 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jan 13 22:08:36 2024 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41432 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1rOqrT-0006IA-SI for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 13 Jan 2024 22:08:36 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:55438) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1rOqrR-0006Hv-JZ for 67611 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 13 Jan 2024 22:08:34 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1rOqrN-0004kW-5t; Sat, 13 Jan 2024 22:08:29 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=JTSFIjBkgLdQExTo0RPGc70g+1TwreVt0FdKpR9lg/A=; b=nb762Hd+SD7m 0k0CIVXn3j/wwa8wrkpuWubEhAOfY+zszwaKQ4NBhlUAicJHUNhqRiadfQ3BTqzMU58VJNP5BMc7P Zcgf0+AGB0wphn44hjqTxwxq7ZyVmlnPtxt9LoGtI1UKdj4Is9k/yHqFUE3UNTRpl8I5aw8yL+Zqi bFDxy9O0s2WWAzAV7fngpWLM7MR4SVwaeEYoqEs4uaD7JkZyR71d/9rs9oOGWaikDzcS1SNa7UB/w JYElPnGJSYarwOVxtR1lgo0faSVKf7braTRrJhbX3sTrmNULjaDbV8qlJvYxv7DBWFHxgLT2d7dnI nhpF7hca0cQWZ8uFDQhiYA==; Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1rOqrI-0007yP-Kg; Sat, 13 Jan 2024 22:08:25 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <jwvle8uefqj.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> (bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN) Subject: Re: bug#67611: [PATCH] Add a Pcase pattern `cl-lambda` equivalent to `cl-destructuring-bind` References: <277dd49a-e96d-4faf-a22e-aca952354a37@HIDDEN> <jwvplzllrrm.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <30f1bf76-1cf1-493e-be4f-38e405d0ecf6@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=7bc5__WNzZftWt01cnQt4NpnFez+LmqJo9qnieN2nCQ@HIDDEN> <CALDnm51VjpjCp4xLPfQ-qR1iwxdDc5XX0i3=8M1vW6vUDizMTw@HIDDEN> <jwvwmsfntmc.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <CALDnm52=voD5PrnsU58wQR1omwymYdUALEAueqsQTZujU6i0rQ@HIDDEN> <jwvle8uefqj.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> Message-Id: <E1rOqrI-0007yP-Kg@HIDDEN> Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2024 22:08:24 -0500 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 67611 Cc: okamsn@HIDDEN, 67611 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, joaotavora@HIDDEN, stefankangas@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Reply-To: rms@HIDDEN Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] Would someone please tell me what syntax is being proposed here, and show me an example, saying what it would mean? I would like to try to adapt it it to cond*. Maybe I could make it simple enough for people to like it. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67611; Package emacs.
Full text available.Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN>
to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org.
Full text available.Received: (at 67611) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Jan 2024 06:59:01 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jan 13 01:59:01 2024 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38231 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1rOXyu-0008ES-N6 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 13 Jan 2024 01:59:00 -0500 Received: from mail-ed1-x535.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::535]:57850) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <stefankangas@HIDDEN>) id 1rOXyo-0008EB-SW for 67611 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 13 Jan 2024 01:58:58 -0500 Received: by mail-ed1-x535.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-5574feb7958so8350411a12.3 for <67611 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 12 Jan 2024 22:58:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1705129130; x=1705733930; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date :mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=B7UCoj0NthDkQ+1BloMup+U6UHzQSS94/D0othxCGxY=; b=hVWWSrjAmjxrwHd29PxBFzyN3+f3lfrREsuDaAheLiDg4xIl0aHnztFIxjNPuPOd2I 2VjVDH65W3AH2jd6nkiA41dHacqtSqU8Ev89ifuqaCaaz20i3TDkMU6yb/kt0IbFYwj8 az6ZwJM9hM9OlynxyGtM9kfCMAuArYvuABWhC6IW8nMIg3OgllKbK8xyDzSKBhkd2YmQ 9ETcE7DrGgYtF7BcOGbpygpSg+Z7lOf8ypVvvP5oRFibme7hqszHE0hf8Uh9JVBwQkgI cRXhojCeMM20hDCT4Ax7Slp3yuv0v08naCcip+2lQdLFarsVDVBjF6h8byWaOAk8/W77 QbQQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1705129130; x=1705733930; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date :mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to :cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=B7UCoj0NthDkQ+1BloMup+U6UHzQSS94/D0othxCGxY=; b=DrzPcUyCNeij78JdMy+HR8A8DRVqg7CeVj+sOhx0xqyVzksQIxly+wlWAM7iWIC9Hs vXj8HQNEdy3oruhqoKsdRG6ngjs/7lJ1V4hdiDg/jzLBzmUX2ef6aeU9Weyo/0gZxEMk WSBb/xWzshL6ORy4o54C7XafO55+cwtMx3jjyq09cuRVtZLzg8hXbh96TY6YgFim4IwT rPl/T76W+euDdl9GtdipaY2p0C45EuSFOBUvize/bVK79e4JSb0AaYWtHvRnnvjNd3Be 6cV233m4M+KkZUwQLLbFRnr6dOxRiiQPhMSMY4qdbyk3p/q+KrKYcK9cK6pqEftXHCbq 1ihw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yyy/iHeA6Gx07oTVlGwAtghmRQMg7BD8Zsnb2eLaWY/l94QBif8 0872SD7eJ907aLz9ERNIrGwOq2pzSCJiRS0T9OA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGSYo5LC9Axsm6ek/I69q5IxxI90ebh4iQOZD4Zgnn+TUa1urlIVL5w/A1CgRQcGuhIsQKQKSpi/7pHc1rnZiU= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:28a5:b0:558:a602:ae13 with SMTP id eg37-20020a05640228a500b00558a602ae13mr1240722edb.57.1705129130532; Fri, 12 Jan 2024 22:58:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Sat, 13 Jan 2024 00:58:49 -0600 From: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <CALDnm51S-AXtJB9BZrn2V4MH_OvPZ8pPP3jE94_6SVw6TyZZQQ@HIDDEN> References: <277dd49a-e96d-4faf-a22e-aca952354a37@HIDDEN> <jwvplzllrrm.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <30f1bf76-1cf1-493e-be4f-38e405d0ecf6@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=7bc5__WNzZftWt01cnQt4NpnFez+LmqJo9qnieN2nCQ@HIDDEN> <CALDnm51VjpjCp4xLPfQ-qR1iwxdDc5XX0i3=8M1vW6vUDizMTw@HIDDEN> <jwvwmsfntmc.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <CALDnm52=voD5PrnsU58wQR1omwymYdUALEAueqsQTZujU6i0rQ@HIDDEN> <jwvle8uefqj.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <CALDnm51S-AXtJB9BZrn2V4MH_OvPZ8pPP3jE94_6SVw6TyZZQQ@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2024 00:58:49 -0600 Message-ID: <CADwFkm=GAv9ffzY+UE6Qsew8a5zTXx=iQ6sOcNs1+GpjgYG_jw@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#67611: [PATCH] Add a Pcase pattern `cl-lambda` equivalent to `cl-destructuring-bind` To: =?UTF-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= <joaotavora@HIDDEN>, Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 67611 Cc: Okamsn <okamsn@HIDDEN>, 67611 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Jo=C3=A3o T=C3=A1vora <joaotavora@HIDDEN> writes: > Pcase is complicated and hard-to-follow yes. Becasue complex pattern > matching is a complicated thing to express, just as regular expressions > are such a thing Pretty much, yes. We could improve its documentation though. We could add a tutorial to the ELisp manual, for example (probably not included in the printed version). > If you ask me, we'd be better off designing an "explain pcase" > utility or designing font-lock rules that helps explain it. > > The byte-compiler is already traversing that anyway and flagging > unused variables and stuff. Can't we use this to mark what is a > lexical variable and what is a literal symbol, for example? Can't > we have a very clear highlighting of the pcase extension being > used, like highlighting the '`' or the 'cl-arglist' or the 'seq'. That would be very useful to explore, I think.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67611; Package emacs.
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bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67611; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 67611) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Jan 2024 16:56:43 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jan 12 11:56:43 2024 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37508 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1rOKpn-0004IZ-Ec for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 12 Jan 2024 11:56:43 -0500 Received: from mail-lj1-x229.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::229]:58478) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <joaotavora@HIDDEN>) id 1rOKpl-0004IE-3N for 67611 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 12 Jan 2024 11:56:42 -0500 Received: by mail-lj1-x229.google.com with SMTP id 38308e7fff4ca-2cd17a979bcso76174171fa.0 for <67611 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 12 Jan 2024 08:56:42 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1705078597; x=1705683397; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=FoNKWG4Izd8aIedLLTrGBfdw+1jtA9M/SV+NoPvH9cw=; b=a6JXxFyKR2NL06WJzCwQjLd0BgXObd+CSbGQ+qI1pt3O2YVnZss1y9TvW7o02o/79d NluC/2UZwRVTpEkNJLsMym87usVql8oSpfTOAVE1qTlDa6fb3DpPROqfSIhAC0/0U4f7 QqIeZoCGesyJNn2Z2igtAGdBmEye5+kd3palL6+wDl0ZOSBufHHZD80WkNqgS4gvoPxS 4Mdt9ApHX+cvAQupKvZz70Qx0EbkY027fJ790v/XJYPCYTezvfXv5PCV1D53kxWY4Sd4 N/qGxN701V5fMpjzHdQCYwQduYhSuktEx5EeFMludt+aiUfXHo79tK9yeqQgL3IKySKa cFTQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1705078597; x=1705683397; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=FoNKWG4Izd8aIedLLTrGBfdw+1jtA9M/SV+NoPvH9cw=; b=MZ1uTAjJIYGD3azvPKyMx9E4zwmY6ZwyMrCe3mALjocCLQIngILlrW+G8w+9kzr334 7jPhKfQG5iPr/pCZIBghC4flinaTzEbAKB03Ok5WNVFgLFdYDBPVpryYwowO2UkcwFtk XPFL2pfL5M+13/0p/cVKDqRGp+hSMqMTB1+KbLq6AvmgaPOMc1m9dViuUaNJ3QKgHfFZ f0J1Pa6B6JbPpq/rFSKO3DPP8I455pMlXfuGMmS2Qvq+cc+S8kX3iWNGjZGtibP1a63U ouH3Fqmit2Fb1S7TxLnXb8IGNB41tcva9mo4P6Gu5H0UAPR1MjYLCwrxLFPDpxNBxqEo 2kQg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwDC59LWYFi1wOSw86mDHdqlHLLlH2mfwlQQz2Dk0IredCpgb09 S0Wl35cI/hRYRmKL9zD7foQ3FMUjJuOnGrxd/qc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGE2Qd/raTw6Xw6SKhQRccHgOOV0aHbOOEzF9Hwr32WEGx53fAPNNc6sI7MNYR0XXZ3nyJohv7XERCX0Gii8Rw= X-Received: by 2002:a05:651c:1038:b0:2cc:94f6:bfc7 with SMTP id w24-20020a05651c103800b002cc94f6bfc7mr458418ljm.170.1705078596595; Fri, 12 Jan 2024 08:56:36 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <277dd49a-e96d-4faf-a22e-aca952354a37@HIDDEN> <jwvplzllrrm.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <30f1bf76-1cf1-493e-be4f-38e405d0ecf6@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=7bc5__WNzZftWt01cnQt4NpnFez+LmqJo9qnieN2nCQ@HIDDEN> <CALDnm51VjpjCp4xLPfQ-qR1iwxdDc5XX0i3=8M1vW6vUDizMTw@HIDDEN> <jwvwmsfntmc.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <CALDnm52=voD5PrnsU58wQR1omwymYdUALEAueqsQTZujU6i0rQ@HIDDEN> <jwvle8uefqj.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <jwvle8uefqj.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> From: =?UTF-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= <joaotavora@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2024 16:56:25 +0000 Message-ID: <CALDnm51S-AXtJB9BZrn2V4MH_OvPZ8pPP3jE94_6SVw6TyZZQQ@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#67611: [PATCH] Add a Pcase pattern `cl-lambda` equivalent to `cl-destructuring-bind` To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 67611 Cc: Okamsn <okamsn@HIDDEN>, 67611 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) reopen 67611 thanks On Fri, Jan 12, 2024 at 3:38=E2=80=AFPM Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN= al.ca> wrote: > > >> I don't think there's a clear enough need for it right now in Emacs co= re > >> to motivate its integration in Emacs proper. Also, because several > >> people have expressed an opinion that leans towards recommending that > >> Emacs's own code should probably better avoid using this functionality= . > > Those people are trying to come up with alternative pattern-matching > > libraries which we start to see are not simpler or as powerful > > as pcase. > > Only some of them are. Others are perfectly happy with using `pcase` > but still aren't super happy about combining the complexity of `pcase` > with that of CL destructuring syntax. > > Personally I'm rather put off by the difficulty of figuring out which > part is using CL syntax and which part is using Pcase: the transition > from Pcase to CL is fairly clear (marked by `cl-arglist` or somesuch), > but the other is much less so. > I'd be happier with a `cl-arglist` which cannot contain nested Pcase > patterns (i.e. a one-way street from Pcase to CL) with > `cl-destructuring-bind` reimplemented on top of it. Can a pcase extension even be a one-way street? And if so, isn't that contrary to the whole purpose of pcase itself? Why have this ban specifically on a CL pattern (should really be called "lambda-list" by the way) when we have a cl library in core and so many uses of CL things that use CL-style lambda lists, with or without cl-*.el. We have so many other less commonly used extensions, some of them subtle performance problems, like seq extensions that rely on generic functions. Pcase is complicated and hard-to-follow yes. Becasue complex pattern matching is a complicated thing to express, just as regular expressions are such a thing (I for one do not think 'rx' makes things particularly simpler). If you ask me, we'd be better off designing an "explain pcase" utility or designing font-lock rules that helps explain it. The byte-compiler is already traversing that anyway and flagging unused variables and stuff. Can't we use this to mark what is a lexical variable and what is a literal symbol, for example? Can't we have a very clear highlighting of the pcase extension being used, like highlighting the '`' or the 'cl-arglist' or the 'seq'. > I'd also be interested in a new Pcase pattern that provides the part of > `cl-arglist` functionality that's missing from current Pcase patterns > (like "optional" elements in a list), but with a syntax that blends > better in Pcase patterns. I'd rather not reinvent half-baked CL things, as it's all too common to discover later we should have gone full-baked and we have digressed for no good reason. > > IOW there is no general purpose-util like Alexandria's > > 'parse-ordinary-lambda-list', and this could be it. It could > > not only be used to simplify and add coherence to many of these > > existing compile-time structures, for example helping simplify > > things and address FIXMEs in cl-lib.el. > > That's a different question: improving up cl-lib's implementation would > be welcome, yes. That's not what the current patch does, tho. It provides a tool to help do that, of course. Anyway if there's some common ground here, let's not throw the entire baby out with the bathwater. Maybe Okamsn can repurpose the helper function he created to parse lambda lists to be akin to Alexandria's parse-simple-lambda-list. It seems it already is fairly close (the alist retun type in Elisp is natural as we don't have multiple values). Also the function's implementaion should be changed to rely on as little as possible of existing cl-macs (cl-copy-list and cl-flet can maybe be skipped -- and maybe added back again later). Shoulnd't be a very hard job (I might be wrong). Then we can consider merging that including figuring out where to merge it. And then we can continue discussing about the usefulness the pcase patterns that can be built with it, sure. I've reopened the bug. Jo=C3=A3o
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67611; Package emacs.
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: =?windows-1252?B?Sm/jbyBU4XZvcmE=?= <joaotavora@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#67611: [PATCH] Add a Pcase pattern `cl-lambda` equivalent
to `cl-destructuring-bind`
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>> I don't think there's a clear enough need for it right now in Emacs core
>> to motivate its integration in Emacs proper. Also, because several
>> people have expressed an opinion that leans towards recommending that
>> Emacs's own code should probably better avoid using this functionality.
> Those people are trying to come up with alternative pattern-matching
> libraries which we start to see are not simpler or as powerful
> as pcase.
Only some of them are. Others are perfectly happy with using `pcase`
but still aren't super happy about combining the complexity of `pcase`
with that of CL destructuring syntax.
Personally I'm rather put off by the difficulty of figuring out which
part is using CL syntax and which part is using Pcase: the transition
from Pcase to CL is fairly clear (marked by `cl-arglist` or somesuch),
but the other is much less so.
I'd be happier with a `cl-arglist` which cannot contain nested Pcase
patterns (i.e. a one-way street from Pcase to CL) with
`cl-destructuring-bind` reimplemented on top of it.
I'd also be interested in a new Pcase pattern that provides the part of
`cl-arglist` functionality that's missing from current Pcase patterns
(like "optional" elements in a list), but with a syntax that blends
better in Pcase patterns.
> IOW there is no general purpose-util like Alexandria's
> 'parse-ordinary-lambda-list', and this could be it. It could
> not only be used to simplify and add coherence to many of these
> existing compile-time structures, for example helping simplify
> things and address FIXMEs in cl-lib.el.
That's a different question: improving up cl-lib's implementation would
be welcome, yes. That's not what the current patch does, tho.
Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67611; Package emacs.
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Also, because several > people have expressed an opinion that leans towards recommending that > Emacs's own code should probably better avoid using this functionality. Those people are trying to come up with alternative pattern-matching libraries which we start to see are not simpler or as powerful as pcase. But sure, other pattern-matching libraries exist out there. See CL's optima/trivia [1/2] for some very good ones. Emacs just happens to have pcase readily available. > I'd be quite happy to include such a think in GNU ELPA, OTOH. Could be, but why really? Why are CL things which rest on such high-quality well-known designs, older than many things Emacs, relegated to a place where they're less discoverable? Here, I think at least the new fresh implementation of lambda-list parsing (which is the meat-and-bones of this patch) is worth taking a look at. It's the function 'cl--pcase-cl-lambda-var-groups'. I would definitely consider grooming this function, renaming it, and keeping it in core, exposing to general Elisp usage in cl-macs.el (or cl-lambdalist.el, cl-ll.el), even if a new pcase pattern that uses it goes to ELPA (but why, really?) That util could help us write other lambda-list destructuring alternatives that understand &optional, &rest. Because with or without it, we already use a lot of the &optional, &rest explicitly in Emacs. And we also use &key and &allow-other-keys in many other places, though sometimes in ad-hoc lets-not-call-this-bull-by-its-name fashion. IOW there is no general purpose-util like Alexandria's 'parse-ordinary-lambda-list', and this could be it. It could not only be used to simplify and add coherence to many of these existing compile-time structures, for example helping simplify things and address FIXMEs in cl-lib.el. Jo=C3=A3o [1] https://github.com/m2ym/optima [2] https://github.com/guicho271828/trivia --0000000000000446ff060ebd62e3 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"auto">On Fri, Jan 12, 2024 at 3:05=E2=80=AFAM Stefan Monnier &l= t;<a href=3D"mailto:monnier@HIDDEN" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nore= ferrer">monnier@HIDDEN</a>> wrote:<br> <br> > I don't think there's a clear enough need for it right now in = Emacs core<br> > to motivate its integration in Emacs proper.=C2=A0 Also, because sever= al<br> > people have expressed an opinion that leans towards recommending that<= br> > Emacs's own code should probably better avoid using this functiona= lity.<br> <br> Those people are trying to come up with alternative pattern-matching<br> libraries which we start to see are not simpler or as powerful<br> as pcase.<br> <br> But sure, other pattern-matching libraries exist out there.=C2=A0 See<br> CL's optima/trivia [1/2] for some very good ones.=C2=A0 Emacs just happ= ens <br> to have pcase readily available.<br> <br> > I'd be quite happy to include such a think in GNU ELPA, OTOH.<br> <br> Could be, but why really?=C2=A0 Why are CL things which rest on such<br> high-quality well-known designs, older than many things Emacs,<br> relegated to a place where they're less discoverable?<br> <br> Here, I think at least the new fresh implementation of<br> lambda-list parsing (which is the meat-and-bones of this patch)<br> is worth taking a look at.<br> <br> It's the function 'cl--pcase-cl-lambda-var-groups'.<br> <br> I would definitely consider grooming this function, renaming<br> it, and keeping it in core, exposing to general Elisp usage<br> in cl-macs.el (or cl-lambdalist.el, cl-ll.el), even if a new<br> pcase pattern that uses it goes to ELPA (but why, really?)<br> <br> That util could help us write other lambda-list destructuring<br> alternatives that understand &optional, &rest.=C2=A0 Because with o= r<br> without it, we already use a lot of the &optional, &rest explicitly= <br> in Emacs.=C2=A0 And we also use &key and &allow-other-keys in many = other<br> places, though sometimes in ad-hoc lets-not-call-this-bull-by-its-name<br> fashion.<br> <br> IOW there is no general purpose-util like Alexandria's<br> 'parse-ordinary-lambda-list', and this could be it.=C2=A0 It could<= br> not only be used to simplify and add coherence to many of these<br> existing compile-time structures, for example helping simplify<br> things and address FIXMEs in cl-lib.el.<br> <br> Jo=C3=A3o<br> <br> [1] <a href=3D"https://github.com/m2ym/optima" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer= " target=3D"_blank">https://github.com/m2ym/optima</a><br> [2] <a href=3D"https://github.com/guicho271828/trivia" rel=3D"noreferrer no= referrer" target=3D"_blank">https://github.com/guicho271828/trivia</a><br><= /div> --0000000000000446ff060ebd62e3--
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: =?windows-1252?B?Sm/jbyBU4XZvcmE=?= <joaotavora@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#67611: [PATCH] Add a Pcase pattern `cl-lambda` equivalent
to `cl-destructuring-bind`
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>> Thanks for the patch. I can only echo the sentiment already given here,
>> that making `pcase' more complex won't do much for its popularity.
> This sentiment is not unanimous. If pcase is naturally extensible,
> using that ability is not making it more complex. That'd be akin
> to saying "defun" is made more complex because too many functions
> are popping up.
Agreed.
> Just wanted register this position. Though I don't know for sure if
> the patch is simply adding a new extension to pcase or changing
> its core structure.
It's a pure extension. The question is not whether the patch is good or
bad or whether it makes the existing infrastructure too complex.
It's rather where should such a thing live.
I don't think there's a clear enough need for it right now in Emacs core
to motivate its integration in Emacs proper. Also, because several
people have expressed an opinion that leans towards recommending that
Emacs's own code should probably better avoid using this functionality.
I'd be quite happy to include such a think in GNU ELPA, OTOH.
Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67611; Package emacs.
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Subject: Re: bug#67611: [PATCH] Add a Pcase pattern `cl-lambda` equivalent to
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Jo=C3=A3o T=C3=A1vora wrote:
> 4. Pcase integration is a "nice to have". In the provided tests, the
> new extension is only tested as a destructuring aid, so I cannot tell
> very well how it fares int the matching aspect of pcase. For example
> I did this experiment:
>=20
> (pcase (list 42 41 :c 42)
> ((cl-arglist (42 42 &key c))
> (list c))
> ((cl-arglist (42 b &rest more))
> (list b more)))
> ;; =3D> (42 2)
> This matches the second case, which is good and returns (41 (:c 42))
>=20
> But how do I construct a case that matches only if the provided
> value to c is 42, if this is at all possible?
It is possible. You can give a pattern instead of a symbol for the=20
variable, but you have to use a version of `&key` variables in which the=20
pattern can't be confused for the normal `((KEY VAR) DEFAULT SUPPLIED)`=20
form. Please try the following:
;; =3D> (42 2)
(pcase (list :c 42)
((cl-arglist (&key ((:c (and 43 c)))))
(list c 1))
((cl-arglist (&key ((:c (and 42 c)))))
(list c 2)))
;; =3D> (42 2)
(pcase (list :c 42)
((cl-arglist (&key ((:c (and 43 c)))))
(list c 1))
((cl-arglist (&key ((:c (and (pred (equal 42))
c)))))
(list c 2))
((cl-arglist (&key ((:c (and 44 c)))))
(list c 3)))
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67611; Package emacs.
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Subject: Re: bug#67611: [PATCH] Add a Pcase pattern `cl-lambda` equivalent to
`cl-destructuring-bind`
To: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN>
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On Thu, Jan 11, 2024 at 10:13=E2=80=AFPM Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@gmail.=
com> wrote:
>
> Jo=C3=A3o T=C3=A1vora <joaotavora@HIDDEN> writes:
>
> > On Thu, Jan 11, 2024 at 9:12=E2=80=AFPM Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@gma=
il.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Thanks for the patch. I can only echo the sentiment already given her=
e,
> >> that making `pcase' more complex won't do much for its popularity.
> >
> > This sentiment is not unanimous. If pcase is naturally extensible,
> > using that ability is not making it more complex. That'd be akin
> > to saying "defun" is made more complex because too many functions
> > are popping up.
> >
> > Just wanted register this position. Though I don't know for sure if
> > the patch is simply adding a new extension to pcase or changing
> > its core structure.
> >
> > I wish Okamsn would show one or two simple examples usage
> > of something you can't do with pcase today, but you would be
> > able to with the patch.
In the meantime, I've had a look at the patch file to learn
about this pcase extension.
1. It is a pure extension. The extension code happens in cl-macs.el
2. It is an alternative to cl-destructuring-bind, also defined
in that file, with more typing involved.
3. It _seems_ it has the advantage that it relies on very little
of cl-macs.el, like maybe just cl-copy-list. Ie it could easily
be changed to live in another file. It could even be a (better?)
base to write cl-destructuring-bind and other cl-macs things on top
of. And to write other utils like Alexandria's
cl-parse-ordinary-lambda-list or destructuring-case [1].
A good lambda-list destructuring tool is valuable by itself, even
without pcase integration.
4. Pcase integration is a "nice to have". In the provided tests, the
new extension is only tested as a destructuring aid, so I cannot tell
very well how it fares int the matching aspect of pcase. For example
I did this experiment:
(pcase (list 42 41 :c 42)
((cl-arglist (42 42 &key c))
(list c))
((cl-arglist (42 b &rest more))
(list b more)))
This matches the second case, which is good and returns (41 (:c 42))
But how do I construct a case that matches only if the provided
value to c is 42, if this is at all possible?
> feel free to reopen the bug report if you think it makes sense.
I think it makes sense, but I don't know how to do that. Just write
reopen 67611/thanks to this tracker?
Jo=C3=A3o
[1]: https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/alexandria/alexandria
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I can only echo the sentiment already given here, >> that making `pcase' more complex won't do much for its popularity. > > This sentiment is not unanimous. If pcase is naturally extensible, > using that ability is not making it more complex. That'd be akin > to saying "defun" is made more complex because too many functions > are popping up. > > Just wanted register this position. Though I don't know for sure if > the patch is simply adding a new extension to pcase or changing > its core structure. > > I wish Okamsn would show one or two simple examples usage > of something you can't do with pcase today, but you would be > able to with the patch. feel free to reopen the bug report if you think it makes sense.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67611; Package emacs.
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bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67611; Package emacs.
Full text available.Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN>
to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org.
Full text available.Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN>
to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org.
Full text available.Received: (at 67611) by debbugs.gnu.org; 11 Jan 2024 21:12:51 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jan 11 16:12:51 2024 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34141 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1rO2M7-0000ZL-Fu for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 16:12:51 -0500 Received: from mail-lj1-x22d.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::22d]:57734) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <stefankangas@HIDDEN>) id 1rO2M4-0000Z3-9C for 67611 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 16:12:50 -0500 Received: by mail-lj1-x22d.google.com with SMTP id 38308e7fff4ca-2cd1ca52f31so67330481fa.3 for <67611 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 13:12:50 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1705007564; x=1705612364; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=iLl7AGuRvjcaeVzmh3uGVp6vpj1E/SujS0TMWc5nZ9M=; b=A8wv2VDv62FxGc5Egs+6U4f7oy67npN5RGS8eY8WInIPOv4UNcvxKrH0IT6553CIpX fatZKmzi0jNbxEpGNl1Teowby6SJ3gS6YYZCzOIbR/kbajlD8pQ6yV6IkT8FSMJayI+g XAQbuwOj0mRFTupU6TPXCEbWy1R9Qprzt6bEehltQGJN3xdl+iClNG79Xs6JCaH6Az9c Apk1jCyLpFZs9Nn40b2DH7pUhVaxsctlfcEyoc3Y+U7oDL+u9BELcs5DT0Mm7vtIaZG3 XIHGBVI1p3UdAn/8DVOe5GLYOigpT6TJRUT4oMQh9M7eC6IXluypqMvV/Wj0a412G4s2 PXpQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1705007564; x=1705612364; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:mime-version:references:in-reply-to :from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=iLl7AGuRvjcaeVzmh3uGVp6vpj1E/SujS0TMWc5nZ9M=; b=XNKuphfODu1UjwBaBnjyYv4NO2rcH+ZY0UC6tlflFE1WwfSSqUR7h/5vJcrm9pCfhH aR5trBMxX2VlWFWqp7Z+ISwf73+BObpCuf8gs4Asqx77HClTuKm1fIlyVx3o/3OaLt2+ oH1Os/OVBu8Rtcf2tUyrN8r1z5UsMzxg78C8gfmOl1xV0qf4BEQqJeVM3nOBgIFbZPTZ eWaUmk6CCSu5WiaYYYP94wpP+oOEABsdJOrU0z0WVq9l8EYW+oOYHDHc8AnI3KTv3oa9 h2NAc4YDzuP6znRaDHzZgOGcrxjtFoLEaKHtkWdqHVtKMO2YKJQ1yjRQ+KDxw/xFZNyc ZmqA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyUpTkeFSzGjBI3GoycqkdaAFWIwunFNgN3k3ehpBq1uwsvpkEj Pg80k3CVstfFhCkTlmz9FyzEIVY8J9K3XnaH63rvHD2Rmgw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFNYfseqrm49xjmjCcwx/bdLp60Z6enes4sGqotSkiO5421JUP3DDXL5m0eTWEVXsQaHjFLPJb3GAmG0VMu56A= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:950e:0:b0:2cc:e919:eb8f with SMTP id f14-20020a2e950e000000b002cce919eb8fmr182351ljh.101.1705007564170; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 13:12:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Thu, 11 Jan 2024 13:12:43 -0800 From: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <30f1bf76-1cf1-493e-be4f-38e405d0ecf6@HIDDEN> (okamsn@HIDDEN's message of "Mon, 25 Dec 2023 21:30:07 +0000") References: <277dd49a-e96d-4faf-a22e-aca952354a37@HIDDEN> <jwvplzllrrm.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <30f1bf76-1cf1-493e-be4f-38e405d0ecf6@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2024 13:12:43 -0800 Message-ID: <CADwFkm=7bc5__WNzZftWt01cnQt4NpnFez+LmqJo9qnieN2nCQ@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#67611: [PATCH] Add a Pcase pattern `cl-lambda` equivalent to `cl-destructuring-bind` To: Okamsn <okamsn@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 67611 Cc: 67611 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>, joaotavora@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) severity 67611 wishlist tags 67611 + notabug wontfix close 67611 thanks Okamsn <okamsn@HIDDEN> writes: > Hello, > > Because I wrote this patch with the thought that others might want it, I > don't have any nontrivial examples to share right now. The best example > I have for the use of the optional arguments is for the implementing of > the optional arguments, which isn't very convincing. > > I've updated the patch to rename the pattern to `cl-arglist` and to > avoid creating intermediate variables using the `let` pattern, but I'm > fine with resting the discussion here until a stronger argument can be > made in favor of the patch. > > Thank you. Thanks for the patch. I can only echo the sentiment already given here, that making `pcase' more complex won't do much for its popularity. It sounds like we mostly agree that no change should be made here, at least not for the moment, so I'm inclined to close this one as wontfix. It's always awkward to have to say no to a well-reasoned patch, but sometimes a decision has to be made. I hope you can understand, and apologies for not accepting your patch. I'm closing the bug with this message. Thank you again for contributing.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67611; Package emacs.
Full text available.Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN>
to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org.
Full text available.Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Dec 2023 21:31:25 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Dec 25 16:31:25 2023 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55465 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1rHsXi-0002rS-Nj for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 25 Dec 2023 16:31:25 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:470:142::17]:50148) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <okamsn@HIDDEN>) id 1rHsXd-0002gg-HI for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 25 Dec 2023 16:31:21 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <okamsn@HIDDEN>) id 1rHsXQ-0002e9-Fc for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Mon, 25 Dec 2023 16:31:04 -0500 Received: from mail-4322.protonmail.ch ([185.70.43.22]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <okamsn@HIDDEN>) id 1rHsXL-0005YV-A4 for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Mon, 25 Dec 2023 16:31:04 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail3; t=1703539842; x=1703799042; bh=du/Rnv1ZEkIGuWOXmBT6l5oOzz65zmNgeKUILGazc4s=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=H4YoG/z+UbwpHfB4kKJAxBnn6c4z9jMRW/BG8LYmvoHA+0m20mHRrchkBk838hxgq zusqvXHLjFlStsSawOjHPUbkZtcO4CwsNqXlDohUZFMqJFgW9tl2lclg+AKSijFpIA lg+k+OQBqGN9cAb8uaAZlQzc4oUfPSaVmqX5ZVG6QHf9yBlLuA1r20Pi8vCJNQ1w+K /6Nz3yRlTzsulg9+UNgjPZ0/cT3KMjFTKG1dK9huav+GaK+94kvGd2pVI7ruEXZo2R RivGJLwc7xLIeF3CKI3I9KHQ9Ac9o9QaFLI9qbFQ632Fajtt43b9KgSYeVO/OSpWN5 iDTz/7cJcFk4w== Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2023 21:30:07 +0000 To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> From: Okamsn <okamsn@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: [PATCH] Add a Pcase pattern `cl-lambda` equivalent to `cl-destructuring-bind` Message-ID: <30f1bf76-1cf1-493e-be4f-38e405d0ecf6@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <jwvplzllrrm.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> References: <277dd49a-e96d-4faf-a22e-aca952354a37@HIDDEN> <jwvplzllrrm.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> Feedback-ID: 25935600:user:proton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="b1_zK7jswiu7zFIyB0mc7Of1fDganPK9zM5sPGTRMaSZA" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.70.43.22; envelope-from=okamsn@HIDDEN; helo=mail-4322.protonmail.ch X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit Cc: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN, =?utf-8?Q?Jo=C3=A3o_T=C3=A1vora?= <joaotavora@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --b1_zK7jswiu7zFIyB0mc7Of1fDganPK9zM5sPGTRMaSZA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Stefan Monnier wrote: >> The attached patch adds the pattern `cl-lambda` for Pcase, which works >> like `cl-destructuring-bind`. There are two differences with the lambda >> lists: >=20 > Hmm... I'm not sure mixing the CL destructuring patterns with the Pcase > patterns (both of which are rather featureful and complex) will help > their popularity. >=20 > Beside that problem (which means I'm not very favorable to the > addition), the name should be changed because "lambda" is misleading. > It suggests this has to do with a function (I had to read the code to > understand what this is doing). >=20 >> The pattern is useful when one wants to combine the features of `pcase` >> and `cl-destructuring-bind`, such combining the optional values with the >> `pred` or `guard` patterns. >=20 > Do you have examples uses? >=20 > Maybe we could introduce a different Pcase pattern which covers those > needs but stays closer to the Pcase pattern syntax? >=20 >=20 > Stefan >=20 Hello, Because I wrote this patch with the thought that others might want it, I=20 don't have any nontrivial examples to share right now. The best example=20 I have for the use of the optional arguments is for the implementing of=20 the optional arguments, which isn't very convincing. I've updated the patch to rename the pattern to `cl-arglist` and to=20 avoid creating intermediate variables using the `let` pattern, but I'm=20 fine with resting the discussion here until a stronger argument can be=20 made in favor of the patch. Thank you. --b1_zK7jswiu7zFIyB0mc7Of1fDganPK9zM5sPGTRMaSZA Content-Type: text/x-patch; charset=UTF-8; name=v2-0001-Add-the-Pcase-pattern-cl-arglist-for-matching-a-C.patch Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=v2-0001-Add-the-Pcase-pattern-cl-arglist-for-matching-a-C.patch RnJvbSBlMTc1MmRhODYzYjQ0YzkzZDEzOWNhODhiZjhjN2Y2NTQ5MjI5ZDE4IE1vbiBTZXAgMTcg MDA6MDA6MDAgMjAwMQpGcm9tOiBFYXJsIEh5YXR0IDxva2Ftc25AcHJvdG9ubWFpbC5jb20+CkRh dGU6IFNhdCwgMjUgTm92IDIwMjMgMTM6MDA6MDMgLTA1MDAKU3ViamVjdDogW1BBVENIIHYyXSBB ZGQgdGhlIFBjYXNlIHBhdHRlcm4gYGNsLWFyZ2xpc3QnIGZvciBtYXRjaGluZyBhIENMCiBhcmd1 bWVudCBsaXN0LgoKVGhpcyBwYXR0ZXJuIG1hdGNoZXMgZnVuY3Rpb24gYXJndW1lbnQgbGlzdHMg YXMgZGVzY3JpYmVkIGluIHRoZSBJbmZvCm5vZGUgYChjbClBcmd1bWVudCBMaXN0cycuCgoqIGxp c3AvZW1hY3MtbGlzcC9jbC1tYWNzLmVsIChjbC1hcmdsaXN0LS1wY2FzZS1tYWNyb2V4cGFuZGVy KQooY2wtYXJnbGlzdCwgY2wtLXBjYXNlLWFyZ2xpc3QtbGlzdC1nZXQtdmFyLWdyb3VwcykKKGNs 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bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67611; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 67611) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Dec 2023 09:27:29 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Dec 05 04:27:29 2023 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36637 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1rARiD-0002rM-92 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 Dec 2023 04:27:29 -0500 Received: from mail-lf1-x12a.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::12a]:50661) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <joaotavora@HIDDEN>) id 1rARiA-0002r8-OJ for 67611 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 Dec 2023 04:27:27 -0500 Received: by mail-lf1-x12a.google.com with SMTP id 2adb3069b0e04-50bfe99b6edso1523487e87.1 for <67611 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 05 Dec 2023 01:27:15 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1701768430; x=1702373230; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=s7tV9wJSs6AZ49KWyX7b6XWERlciLouG8uV+BYndsfM=; b=cR7LJ0/mUWF7U+wDCK1nRHj2bxvz84fldidMg00w8vGZQ3kZKOAIfDMHJIrCoarkMe 1hObqCp3qm6wUqPbshkbKEdTqJHxcnAgODEITO1eJKRA4Gh1Vo7+Lz71F/q0Bq56BdGN jzWQqz2X7tSUrvcZXfj6icHJ6Q75i/vx5IGWvMp0UGb5ayJKdz5F6UWv5t2ezTZV3pQG W8qppU/dNrp/zqKXMjd5C3AajzAPNC5hTo6BvLvtZDEdAwG+fTRaLHaMwBp4B4vw5q6K Lzucz/MNCWuLn9R1dfth2+1v1PxVXfLPUPIIe/qld2ZYWvPIa6YcW1aiwslocFrUOpSc J3Dw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1701768430; x=1702373230; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=s7tV9wJSs6AZ49KWyX7b6XWERlciLouG8uV+BYndsfM=; b=mtqG8RhxF40roBdGJwAE/xCsyOQ3NvTFcaP2n9g8kYzfbBdLsxDgmPOmAd7bpLGnwa 2DvNIhcBK/zpyzzQioCjRHfTagiJJLBzgkT79aR+RRavMFXO6crwX/UNggkJlsbVh87X 0w8+wKddAgi+ZrsIO4YiIHZSkp4KYJmqu7nSi0mPkqbPxQqR/NXjqKzkLJDYFDPpCuaz pp7XytJhdek6i4oyE80r/3TKVUKocZWsHtrz9L5WPajlDqqZs84AFEd6raUvDf0NS2xu CrCRA2/MXc2zWzjiVdc4ssZ/NuUC6oZZsSg/y6HS9o/MGqCGH4549r923s73X3diuKTz ebuQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzDU2ZXS3VpMYeeNk9TmGrcwdYiT4K4QKNGjGIdCUBH9VlOF02S e8h+nY8Tslk+aAgYVZYMKi5hknjfMppX9f6AjLB+MqJY2Y4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IELW38zTzyTbYXUzERwnCEHw3INUBaxZtBl/yzvXauMKz0UPjhRrzjCHd3PIoBi6AH8r85gi7AIE+WluBVFHg4= X-Received: by 2002:ac2:4e51:0:b0:50b:fa93:35c9 with SMTP id f17-20020ac24e51000000b0050bfa9335c9mr957733lfr.113.1701768429612; Tue, 05 Dec 2023 01:27:09 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <277dd49a-e96d-4faf-a22e-aca952354a37@HIDDEN> <jwvplzllrrm.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <56ebae03-a94d-4379-bd08-66bde2311bb7@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <56ebae03-a94d-4379-bd08-66bde2311bb7@HIDDEN> From: =?UTF-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= <joaotavora@HIDDEN> Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2023 09:26:58 +0000 Message-ID: <CALDnm513hT_txSau0+mjqRp4T++K=C7YbF2oWUF9t=wurx171Q@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#67611: [PATCH] Add a Pcase pattern `cl-lambda` equivalent to `cl-destructuring-bind` To: Okamsn <okamsn@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 67611 Cc: 67611 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On Tue, Dec 5, 2023 at 2:43=E2=80=AFAM Okamsn via Bug reports for GNU Emacs= , the Swiss army knife of text editors <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN> wrote: > For me, I am interested in using such a destructuring pattern with > `pcase-let` and `pcase-setq`, but not so much with `pcase` itself. > > > Maybe we could introduce a different Pcase pattern which covers those > > needs but stays closer to the Pcase pattern syntax? > > As far as I understand Pcase, one thing that I think cl-lib does better > is specifying default values for multiple optional variables. For > example, for `(a &optional (b 2) (c 3))` in Pcase, I would write Yes. cl-lib has a couple of neat tricks up its sleeve, still. And what about keyword arguments in plists? Can pcase destructure them? If so, does it bind the "supplied-p" variable? And can it rename the variable being destructured to something else non-clashing? All these things are useful in CL's destructuring-bind, but it is missing other stuff like "casing" logic. So at least on a first glimpse, this reunion would be welcome by me. With the caveat that I haven't seen any examples or the patch yet, and it matters. Jo=C3=A3o
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67611; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 67611) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Dec 2023 09:22:17 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Dec 05 04:22:17 2023 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36609 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1rARdB-0002hb-Ew for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 Dec 2023 04:22:17 -0500 Received: from mail-lf1-x134.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::134]:61892) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <joaotavora@HIDDEN>) id 1rARd9-0002hK-U9 for 67611 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 05 Dec 2023 04:22:16 -0500 Received: by mail-lf1-x134.google.com with SMTP id 2adb3069b0e04-50bf69afa99so2520560e87.3 for <67611 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 05 Dec 2023 01:22:04 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1701768119; x=1702372919; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=2wafyPcDSyZDbuNJIQQ8zQ8BOfUh17+C5XwVZ8oluO8=; b=kBAgPbYKCSkoWhooP6HEmK1LgTv0Xt/ubniik1AVgmjM5EwWQ/k10L5gCrKqhM/qXz mnbyc5V6xaVzAf+YYJewpq8aiEjJfOnkYm1Gp3c+NhrZ216GbVpe4kXG7lf+AGIs/WbG Ikjr5415QFas6U91PfHlEX/5fsBw9dk3+Nscwab/jtj9IqI6sq9EzQL+0ngerSZrTRK4 elJHCdngFrlJBXsTqqNTu2WzswbvGqDDPw6F4oWb/YAlDrE/x7JMTZdVwh4ylCvjfjXT qI+iv5KryBnR/9VpHt4nMpQXJrklmMrXbIHD4jjscGAXIUGczl2Lkr31ciuXI6Q6byJA Loxw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1701768119; x=1702372919; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=2wafyPcDSyZDbuNJIQQ8zQ8BOfUh17+C5XwVZ8oluO8=; b=dinzqU87kZM8hbBVYi/D5JRD0+Zi7wmnPp086439XslIaYEATEGyQsLIC+ZaJiBTeJ N2Trr+78kNkyzaZDq2bTx59Pc9zv8DfvnE6tYPK8UkXE/eaKR1Lhx5O8Hv+HfWr1iJ3Z 1ckFG+lC131SkGRqDfH/7V+CfUF4EPIX2AdeS7lqh1ksvSEWxvaep5jqgsgRfI3KvbvT mT/GxCwAhscH2d/s24s7fAmZ7et893Z3s3t+ekmYtAIAH1xwhNHqlK4I7CgqUDusrWGH Tl+X60ztIyDACmZJp3WeuHGEu/cRda28g5/FJ7ICGK/o6XoWb5Nw8HrWVr7yIvvsjIUq hQbw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxpVCwPUjeo7m4ZujBq1XjzWwpH0ltq2A79SmuboCRnGIIqZ8EI JGcEB0fsdBi68r15KiansYTrQ8iv0KiarASwHds= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEH8DA2WbcOzpd2W1ZEgQ/v/6x4xsZrCUe8mN21hCwnCGVCaGelKhEyqNSVqXo9PQx1IxdQkNsvG0qyJDyVH+U= X-Received: by 2002:ac2:4c8b:0:b0:50b:e3c6:60b with SMTP id d11-20020ac24c8b000000b0050be3c6060bmr2553064lfl.92.1701768118671; Tue, 05 Dec 2023 01:21:58 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <277dd49a-e96d-4faf-a22e-aca952354a37@HIDDEN> <jwvplzllrrm.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <jwvplzllrrm.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> From: =?UTF-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= <joaotavora@HIDDEN> Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2023 09:21:47 +0000 Message-ID: <CALDnm52imqDaends1AEiZH9WYh6YN8tFosyYCzexH6F5=GWKwA@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#67611: [PATCH] Add a Pcase pattern `cl-lambda` equivalent to `cl-destructuring-bind` To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 67611 Cc: Okamsn <okamsn@HIDDEN>, 67611 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On Mon, Dec 4, 2023 at 7:09=E2=80=AFPM Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for G= NU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN> wrote: > > > The attached patch adds the pattern `cl-lambda` for Pcase, which works > > like `cl-destructuring-bind`. There are two differences with the lambda > > lists: > > Hmm... I'm not sure mixing the CL destructuring patterns with the Pcase > patterns (both of which are rather featureful and complex) will help > their popularity. > > Beside that problem (which means I'm not very favorable to the > addition), the name should be changed because "lambda" is misleading. > It suggests this has to do with a function (I had to read the code to > understand what this is doing). > > > The pattern is useful when one wants to combine the features of `pcase` > > and `cl-destructuring-bind`, such combining the optional values with th= e > > `pred` or `guard` patterns. > > Do you have examples uses? I for one would like to see some examples too. Okamsn's description of this pcase extension sounds interesting. In fact, it sounds very much like the slime-dcase and sly-dcase macros in SLIME and SLY respectively. Jo=C3=A3o
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67611; Package emacs.
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Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2023 02:42:12 +0000
To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
From: Okamsn <okamsn@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] Add a Pcase pattern `cl-lambda` equivalent to
`cl-destructuring-bind`
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Stefan Monnier wrote:
>> The attached patch adds the pattern `cl-lambda` for Pcase, which works
>> like `cl-destructuring-bind`. There are two differences with the lambda
>> lists:
>=20
> Hmm... I'm not sure mixing the CL destructuring patterns with the Pcase
> patterns (both of which are rather featureful and complex) will help
> their popularity.
>=20
> Beside that problem (which means I'm not very favorable to the
> addition), the name should be changed because "lambda" is misleading.
> It suggests this has to do with a function (I had to read the code to
> understand what this is doing).
I agree that the name is not ideal. When I searched for what the=20
destructuring pattern was called, the website Common Lisp HyperSpec=20
called it a "destructuring lambda list"=20
(https://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/03_de.htm). I=20
would have suggested "cl", as it is the kind of destructuring used by=20
the macros of cl-lib, but I thought that would not work well with the=20
existence of the "cl-type" pattern. I also thought about something like=20
"cl-arglist", if that is better.
>> The pattern is useful when one wants to combine the features of `pcase`
>> and `cl-destructuring-bind`, such combining the optional values with the
>> `pred` or `guard` patterns.
>=20
> Do you have examples uses?
Not of that idea, no. I maintain a library that implements a=20
destructuring pattern like cl-lib=20
(https://github.com/okamsn/loopy/blob/master/doc/loopy-doc.org#basic-destru=
cturing)=20
and I have been thinking about how I could use Pcase to simplify the=20
implementation of the destructuring and to stop using a re-invented=20
wheel. While doing that, it occurred to me that cl-lib itself might be a=20
better place for such a Pcase pattern. To be clear, the patch only=20
implements the cl-lib destructuring, not the other destructuring ideas=20
from my library.
For me, I am interested in using such a destructuring pattern with=20
`pcase-let` and `pcase-setq`, but not so much with `pcase` itself.
> Maybe we could introduce a different Pcase pattern which covers those
> needs but stays closer to the Pcase pattern syntax?
As far as I understand Pcase, one thing that I think cl-lib does better=20
is specifying default values for multiple optional variables. For=20
example, for `(a &optional (b 2) (c 3))` in Pcase, I would write
(or `(,a ,b ,c)
(and `(,a ,b)
(let c 3))
(and `(,a)
(let c 3)
(let b 2)))
or
`(,a . ,(or `(,b . ,(or `(,c)
(let c 3)))
(and (let b 2)
(let c 3))))
in which there is repetition in the default values. Is there a better=20
way to specify default values for optional elements?
Thank you.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67611; Package emacs.
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Okamsn <okamsn@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] Add a Pcase pattern `cl-lambda` equivalent to
`cl-destructuring-bind`
In-Reply-To: <277dd49a-e96d-4faf-a22e-aca952354a37@HIDDEN>
(okamsn@HIDDEN's message of "Sun, 03 Dec 2023 20:33:35 +0000")
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> The attached patch adds the pattern `cl-lambda` for Pcase, which works
> like `cl-destructuring-bind`. There are two differences with the lambda
> lists:
Hmm... I'm not sure mixing the CL destructuring patterns with the Pcase
patterns (both of which are rather featureful and complex) will help
their popularity.
Beside that problem (which means I'm not very favorable to the
addition), the name should be changed because "lambda" is misleading.
It suggests this has to do with a function (I had to read the code to
understand what this is doing).
> The pattern is useful when one wants to combine the features of `pcase`
> and `cl-destructuring-bind`, such combining the optional values with the
> `pred` or `guard` patterns.
Do you have examples uses?
Maybe we could introduce a different Pcase pattern which covers those
needs but stays closer to the Pcase pattern syntax?
Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67611; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Dec 2023 20:34:27 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Dec 03 15:34:27 2023 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:32832 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1r9tAX-0006cm-Um for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Dec 2023 15:34:27 -0500 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:470:142::17]:48282) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <okamsn@HIDDEN>) id 1r9tAR-0006cU-Mg for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 03 Dec 2023 15:34:24 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <okamsn@HIDDEN>) id 1r9tAB-0002Im-U4 for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Sun, 03 Dec 2023 15:34:03 -0500 Received: from mail-4316.protonmail.ch ([185.70.43.16]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <okamsn@HIDDEN>) id 1r9tA7-0002Br-Ie for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Sun, 03 Dec 2023 15:34:03 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail3; t=1701635634; x=1701894834; bh=X2WCsbkau0mgG/FEVaIEzsg5CvdsVYkrsXlJq/+EPe8=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date: Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID:Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=OoV+beY8BBviqD5GPi+mS4l3ylwSkcFkJzuTC8Io7kk33DxSuzeamd4NVwMXL3jIM y03zRBmg6i+6Am+5vDnZaxdlgk7dMEVw+O/iarH+/LQzAJEIFWoTnOYef4mblKm5FJ 9U6RWs5qkV8+gt6QO5LrcAG6mdeq7gE9rzkZKFq9GXOgKUagWnhY26EIUVzH5u3fko NwME0ySiq4weGNMhs2KVzLgyM8uoZC2qLXdwOPqdxvdIN9hPs+W+wuH2IU3wD7hnGz jt/WvOz/RSLoJ/dG5ZZhx8k9/HTQX8RWwwODzTekpJVRkO+HXRMAQPdsP48yw1HclD RhOyPfXOpjuZg== Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2023 20:33:35 +0000 To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN From: Okamsn <okamsn@HIDDEN> Subject: [PATCH] Add a Pcase pattern `cl-lambda` equivalent to `cl-destructuring-bind` Message-ID: <277dd49a-e96d-4faf-a22e-aca952354a37@HIDDEN> Feedback-ID: 25935600:user:proton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="b1_TJ92SD8NGM37oLvDrnzOJ5ksQWEvU5jEnoHfJPwkcjE" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.70.43.16; envelope-from=okamsn@HIDDEN; helo=mail-4316.protonmail.ch X-Spam_score_int: -30 X-Spam_score: -3.1 X-Spam_bar: --- X-Spam_report: (-3.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=-1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit Cc: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --b1_TJ92SD8NGM37oLvDrnzOJ5ksQWEvU5jEnoHfJPwkcjE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, The attached patch adds the pattern `cl-lambda` for Pcase, which works=20 like `cl-destructuring-bind`. There are two differences with the lambda=20 lists: 1. It does not support `&environment` 2. Without `&allow-other-keys` or `:allow-other-keys t`, the pattern=20 will fail to match if their are unmatched keys in EXPVAL, but it does=20 not throw an error. The variable that would be bound in the lambda list can be Pcase=20 patterns themselves, with two exceptions: 1. Using a sub-pattern as the cdr of a dotted list, like "(cl-lambda (a=20 . `(,b . ,c))" doesn't work, since the pattern won't always look like a=20 dotted list. 2. For constructs that use a sub-list to provide additional values, such=20 as `&optional`, `&key`, and `&aux`, the sub-pattern only works inside=20 the sub-list. For example, one could do "(cl-lambda (&optional (`(,a=20 ,b))" but not "(cl-lambda (&optional `(,a ,b)))". The pattern is useful when one wants to combine the features of `pcase`=20 and `cl-destructuring-bind`, such combining the optional values with the=20 `pred` or `guard` patterns. Thank you. --b1_TJ92SD8NGM37oLvDrnzOJ5ksQWEvU5jEnoHfJPwkcjE Content-Type: text/x-patch; charset=UTF-8; name=0001-Add-the-Pcase-pattern-cl-lambda-for-matching-lambda-.patch Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=0001-Add-the-Pcase-pattern-cl-lambda-for-matching-lambda-.patch RnJvbSBhMTZiZjFkZWQ1ODdiN2NjOTc0ZGFmYTVmNzI0MjdmM2ExZjZjNWZmIE1vbiBTZXAgMTcg MDA6MDA6MDAgMjAwMQpGcm9tOiBFYXJsIEh5YXR0IDxva2Ftc25AcHJvdG9ubWFpbC5jb20+CkRh dGU6IFNhdCwgMjUgTm92IDIwMjMgMTM6MDA6MDMgLTA1MDAKU3ViamVjdDogW1BBVENIXSBBZGQg dGhlIFBjYXNlIHBhdHRlcm4gYGNsLWxhbWJkYScgZm9yIG1hdGNoaW5nIGxhbWJkYSBsaXN0LgoK VGhpcyBwYXR0ZXJuIG1hdGNoZXMgZnVuY3Rpb24gYXJndW1lbnQgbGlzdHMgYXMgZGVzY3JpYmVk IGluIHRoZSBJbmZvCm5vZGUgYChjbClBcmd1bWVudCBMaXN0cycuCgoqIGxpc3AvZW1hY3MtbGlz cC9jbC1tYWNzLmVsIChjbC1sYW1iZGEtLXBjYXNlLW1hY3JvZXhwYW5kZXIpCihjbC1sYW1iZGEs IGNsLS1wY2FzZS1sYW1iZGEtbGlzdC1nZXQtdmFyLWdyb3VwcykKKGNsLS1wY2FzZS1jbC1sYW1i 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Okamsn <okamsn@HIDDEN>:bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.
Full text available.bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#67611; Package emacs.
Full text available.
GNU bug tracking system
Copyright (C) 1999 Darren O. Benham,
1997 nCipher Corporation Ltd,
1994-97 Ian Jackson.