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Wed, 10 Jan 2024 14:49:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtpclient.apple ([131.183.131.33]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q67-20020a0de746000000b005869ca8da8esm1926750ywe.146.2024.01.10.14.49.35 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 10 Jan 2024 14:49:35 -0800 (PST) From: JD Smith <jdtsmith@HIDDEN> Message-Id: <4731097C-D870-439C-B012-98ADA2AEB330@HIDDEN> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_A633408E-8741-4CFC-987B-DD7B446D5F07" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3774.300.61.1.2\)) Subject: Re: bug#68236: [PATCH] help.el: allow help-quick to use local commands/quick-sections Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 17:49:24 -0500 In-Reply-To: <83sf35mb8g.fsf@HIDDEN> To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> References: <CADwFkm=D0FdxoiUi3Q5VfT2rz8uD-TrvXDf_7y5cKG9UYOc54w@HIDDEN> <FFDE0EB0-66B8-48EA-97AE-02E512CEAACE@HIDDEN> <83sf35mb8g.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3774.300.61.1.2) X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 68236 Cc: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN>, 68236 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --Apple-Mail=_A633408E-8741-4CFC-987B-DD7B446D5F07 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 With my original fix of just allowing buffer-local binding to appear in = help-quick, I fully intended to disable most of the global bindings (I = don=E2=80=99t need a reminder of C-x C-f) and expected it to be = therefore a smaller and easier to parse mode-specific list. =20 Since the user has to take the initiative to modify = `help-quick-sections=E2=80=99 in my simple approach, I do not see = =E2=80=9Closs of global bindings=E2=80=9D as a concern; that=E2=80=99s a = feature, not a bug, from my perspective. > On Jan 10, 2024, at 10:58=E2=80=AFAM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> = wrote: >=20 >> From: JD Smith <jdtsmith@HIDDEN> >> Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 10:46:22 -0500 >> Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 68236 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, >> Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN> >>=20 >> But what about instead of a separate command to remember, just = creating an (optional) section in the existing help-quick popup, for = local commands? where-is-internal would consult the global keymap for = the global commands, and the current buffer=E2=80=99s keymap for the = locals. >=20 > I think we should be careful not to add too much to what these > commands display, since otherwise we'd reinvent "C-h b" again. >=20 > The whole purpose of help-quick is to present a small list of the most > useful commands and their bindings, and do it in a small window. As > soon as the buffer is long enough to require scrolling, I think we > will have lost. --Apple-Mail=_A633408E-8741-4CFC-987B-DD7B446D5F07 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 <html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word; = -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">With my = original fix of just allowing buffer-local binding to appear in = help-quick, I fully intended to disable most of the global bindings (I = don=E2=80=99t need a reminder of C-x C-f) and expected it to be = therefore a smaller and easier to parse mode-specific list. = <div><br></div><div>Since the user has to take the initiative to = modify `<font color=3D"#000000">help-quick-sections=E2=80=99 in my = simple approach, I do not see =E2=80=9Closs of global bindings=E2=80=9D = as a concern; that=E2=80=99s a feature, not a bug, from my = perspective.</font><div><br></div><div><br><div><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><div>On Jan 10, 2024, at 10:58=E2=80=AFAM, Eli Zaretskii = <eliz@HIDDEN> wrote:</div><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div><div><blockquote = type=3D"cite">From: JD Smith <jdtsmith@HIDDEN><br>Date: Wed, 10 = Jan 2024 10:46:22 -0500<br>Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, = 68236 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,<br> Philip Kaludercic = <philipk@HIDDEN><br><br>But what about instead of a separate = command to remember, just creating an (optional) section in the existing = help-quick popup, for local commands? where-is-internal would = consult the global keymap for the global commands, and the current = buffer=E2=80=99s keymap for the locals. <br></blockquote><br>I think we = should be careful not to add too much to what these<br>commands display, = since otherwise we'd reinvent "C-h b" again.<br><br>The whole purpose of = help-quick is to present a small list of the most<br>useful commands and = their bindings, and do it in a small window. As<br>soon as the = buffer is long enough to require scrolling, I think we<br>will have = lost.<br></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></body></html>= --Apple-Mail=_A633408E-8741-4CFC-987B-DD7B446D5F07--
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#68236; Package emacs.
Full text available.Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN>
to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org.
Full text available.Received: (at 68236) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Jan 2024 15:58:52 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jan 10 10:58:51 2024 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42546 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1rNayh-0003fS-Jy for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 10:58:51 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:60074) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1rNayf-0003fB-4b for 68236 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 10:58:49 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1rNayb-0008QD-13; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 10:58:45 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=UJ/S7VP1ThWtwCkqPEJjfayeiSw7RIWtUGVdLJyYy5M=; b=IfhNOyEzygRxo4wLwKER cLURzdetNsXKVkhLr8u1b8SIE00CGZP1kfbmprC5G6F4Aph/CSad23Eebd4Pf0KsdCgGDjH5uOjGB Ah2TlVEuHz+ehgueROEyo5kNJrs3bWm228HetbpBxl1S9TmC6JPX+GqAKFe1uVS74zm9c65Jv/15/ 8oEd3GWJE9UeiIlnmCphFM78+dtjjYYOW4KrthKHfy/AB/dYeieZFvsTnfi2kUKBelEGrGyAqtTTp +lrsUkaxZX6BwGsIZ1dvrMcj+gieiYUqiOPQlaAGj9cv5eaUOhbsOrI7xr0hR4+ZEeiB54jb1jxCr v7mtgWn4ElFnTA==; Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 17:58:23 +0200 Message-Id: <83sf35mb8g.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: JD Smith <jdtsmith@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <FFDE0EB0-66B8-48EA-97AE-02E512CEAACE@HIDDEN> (message from JD Smith on Wed, 10 Jan 2024 10:46:22 -0500) Subject: Re: bug#68236: [PATCH] help.el: allow help-quick to use local commands/quick-sections References: <CADwFkm=D0FdxoiUi3Q5VfT2rz8uD-TrvXDf_7y5cKG9UYOc54w@HIDDEN> <FFDE0EB0-66B8-48EA-97AE-02E512CEAACE@HIDDEN> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 68236 Cc: philipk@HIDDEN, 68236 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, stefankangas@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: JD Smith <jdtsmith@HIDDEN> > Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 10:46:22 -0500 > Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 68236 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, > Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN> > > But what about instead of a separate command to remember, just creating an (optional) section in the existing help-quick popup, for local commands? where-is-internal would consult the global keymap for the global commands, and the current buffer’s keymap for the locals. I think we should be careful not to add too much to what these commands display, since otherwise we'd reinvent "C-h b" again. The whole purpose of help-quick is to present a small list of the most useful commands and their bindings, and do it in a small window. As soon as the buffer is long enough to require scrolling, I think we will have lost.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#68236; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 68236) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Jan 2024 15:50:53 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jan 10 10:50:53 2024 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42537 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1rNaqz-0003Ta-51 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 10:50:53 -0500 Received: from mail-lj1-x22d.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::22d]:45387) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <stefankangas@HIDDEN>) id 1rNaqx-0003TO-Ui for 68236 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 10:50:52 -0500 Received: by mail-lj1-x22d.google.com with SMTP id 38308e7fff4ca-2cca8eb0509so49322581fa.3 for <68236 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 07:50:53 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1704901847; x=1705506647; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date :mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=x3MW5Wby/mK6aYzlYkP/Koqg+ScaluW6OkRyKy+b21M=; b=P9Pp1cpaDBTyEbnKhN/DOY7N6qpi1L2Wj7UmYdJnTm3mLsV7r/0M1lQcCXtCOQoMEe UbUXfFJrtNS6j2s3mJA2d282QDprLHJrY8HAZsTdRq4+NhgS12vda4evJxMEDzg4Mw0c fL63JPDBi0E6VLGfvYOH8Ii2seN89oBxt42fy1llJCzTb8TmwsL+5i8DL58dh1M+3WAr r6lf+5SQU5Ks6VMDA0oi4v/8zVqm86jUsF8GfdSZOwzSYQtZm+WQv0BvqennayF/0qN5 gyzpQZXTZgwdFkqQlOgz8SgnZNTY6Io/bgeEkF0Q/+6aKgbsx73UAiT3+5YUHy0gTysG Xasw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1704901847; x=1705506647; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date :mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to :cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=x3MW5Wby/mK6aYzlYkP/Koqg+ScaluW6OkRyKy+b21M=; b=gTY9RjK+66Irub+1+XQpE03kYGTzKrY1SnqazA2LRn9yu7fdj3V55qTbR1ODfwIwgf 7iM/iUdtSi96dMfjL8RLltD7K7wBEr6EhZuixjYuGzz2GYFH441pXD2/r4eI7iZN6qCz ZXJvk89zJHK4JBoM+yHNcfiMFzX+HE5t0UieseYUFeKVzLes8rW1EOjKK0psl2ZSRFqI gsP+h0pI74d9rgdW2pjcPEzqrTFBQ/UTzkq0gP1sbFjygLoYuxUkhUXMa1JUaZ4qzoS1 /HIu3dJnYBm2HhtfU/WdloHPa5nVj2YpZJh8HyHZOA6hVQLV3G5wMmvEyNhtZcw+Hv+G i7HQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yy/9W4wcv91H/1Wfxx9O0H4ValX5rfFdP8cL27IFGWjGPsBbhRP C/WAQDTxPdQX5pFYRErVEvWs1f3bLrk8yesow0g= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFBg7zmVbI0V1NrAKA1Vb9AmdV/lh6+iS98sjOtQpv5rn5qUc+g3ngraejtp0dGo+YpGxvTnPPS5znTqQh0res= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:9c96:0:b0:2cc:6e47:6215 with SMTP id x22-20020a2e9c96000000b002cc6e476215mr649549lji.57.1704901846997; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 07:50:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from 753933720722 named unknown by gmailapi.google.com with HTTPREST; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 07:50:46 -0800 From: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <FFDE0EB0-66B8-48EA-97AE-02E512CEAACE@HIDDEN> References: <CADwFkm=D0FdxoiUi3Q5VfT2rz8uD-TrvXDf_7y5cKG9UYOc54w@HIDDEN> <FFDE0EB0-66B8-48EA-97AE-02E512CEAACE@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 07:50:46 -0800 Message-ID: <CADwFkmmRpYh4p-EM-afYic3N0ga1nk2=Vi3v-+mMr1PEpBUBAA@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#68236: [PATCH] help.el: allow help-quick to use local commands/quick-sections To: JD Smith <jdtsmith@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 68236 Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 68236 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) JD Smith <jdtsmith@HIDDEN> writes: >> On Jan 10, 2024, at 7:51=E2=80=AFAM, Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN= om> wrote: >> >> We could also add a separate command to show only those commands >> somehow in a similar way to `help-quick-toggle'. > > One advantage of this approach is you can craft your *own* short > command description, if the docstring or command name is not clear to > you (things like org-ctrl-return being prime examples). But what > about instead of a separate command to remember, just creating an > (optional) section in the existing help-quick popup, for local > commands? where-is-internal would consult the global keymap for the > global commands, and the current buffer=E2=80=99s keymap for the locals. That might make sense, yes. In that case, perhaps we could also add an option to disable the global keybindings, for advanced users, so that only the mode specific ones were displayed. But I would separate this into two changes: - A "cheatsheet" module - Support for the cheatsheet module in help-quick-toggle Because I can then imagine other ways of displaying and using the cheatsheets (such as the way I proposed). IOW, I would avoid tightly coupling the cheatsheet functionality to help-quick-toggle.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#68236; Package emacs.
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[24.53.187.34]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id bs20-20020a056638451400b0046e2ce45dafsm1361453jab.165.2024.01.10.07.46.33 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 10 Jan 2024 07:46:33 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: JD Smith <jdtsmith@HIDDEN> Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: bug#68236: [PATCH] help.el: allow help-quick to use local commands/quick-sections Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 10:46:22 -0500 Message-Id: <FFDE0EB0-66B8-48EA-97AE-02E512CEAACE@HIDDEN> References: <CADwFkm=D0FdxoiUi3Q5VfT2rz8uD-TrvXDf_7y5cKG9UYOc54w@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <CADwFkm=D0FdxoiUi3Q5VfT2rz8uD-TrvXDf_7y5cKG9UYOc54w@HIDDEN> To: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN> X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (21C66) X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 68236 Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, 68236 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > On Jan 10, 2024, at 7:51=E2=80=AFAM, Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN= > wrote: >=20 > We could also add a separate command to show only those commands somehow > in a similar way to `help-quick-toggle'. One advantage of this approach is you can craft your *own* short command des= cription, if the docstring or command name is not clear to you (things like o= rg-ctrl-return being prime examples). But what about instead of a separate c= ommand to remember, just creating an (optional) section in the existing help= -quick popup, for local commands? where-is-internal would consult the globa= l keymap for the global commands, and the current buffer=E2=80=99s keymap fo= r the locals.=20=
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#68236; Package emacs.
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So only global bindings (and bindings >> available in help-mode) are accessible for display. My patch simply >> delays switching to *Quick Help* buffer, so that binding information >> can be gathered from the local buffer from which quick help was >> summoned. Note that help-quick omits any bindings that are nil, as >> well as any empty sections. So adding sections to the defcustom that >> do not apply (=have no bindings) in some buffer is not a problem. > > Your proposal has the disadvantage that the user must switch to a > buffer under some major mode to see the entries for that mode in the > quick-help window. It could be an annoyance; e.g., consider a user > who wants to see this while in a *Help* buffer. And I don't think > being in the buffer under the major mode is the only way of getting > mode-specific bindings; for example, where-is-internal can accept a > KEYMAP argument, which will be used to find key bindings. Yes, this is a problem. I see the quick help as basically intended for global Emacs keys, so I think they should display the global ones always. Let's not break that. > Or maybe we should have a separate command for cheat sheets specific > to a major mode. The window we pop up cannot be too large, so if the > user only wants a quick help for the current mode, she might consider > global bindings an annoying waste of screen estate. Moreover, the > current quick help shows "popular commands", which are likely to be > already known to some users, whereas when the user works in a major > mode that is new to the user, one is likely to be in the need of the > cheat sheet for that one mode. (Yes, we do already have "C-h b", but > the output of that could be overwhelming: for example in an Org buffer > I get almost 1400 lines in the *Help* buffer showing the Org-specific > bindings.) > > IOW, if we want to consider mode-specific quick help, we should > perhaps discuss more about the goals before we consider code tricks to > implement it. I think a more specific cheat sheet for major modes would be more suitable, yes. Here's an idea that I've had: Typically, I only want to remember a few commands in each major mode. It would be useful to be able to mark them for highlighting or somesuch in the general describe-mode *Help* buffer (preferably using keys, and not using M-x customize, though they could persist by saving the result to the custom file). Then, the next time I display `describe-mode', they would be highlighted, in this or future sessions. How about something like that? We could also add a separate command to show only those commands somehow in a similar way to `help-quick-toggle'.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#68236; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 68236) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Jan 2024 13:53:56 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Jan 10 08:53:56 2024 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39292 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1rNZ1n-0003IT-IY for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 08:53:55 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:40344) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1rNZ1l-0003I6-FK for 68236 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 08:53:53 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1rNZ1e-0006w1-1k; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 08:53:47 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=3wV+/pz5ZtqajousGu5GCR3my2JXjpdgN5D6sh+Qkxg=; b=gAZLaRewfm7C ghixhuPYSnvm6XBc+TG41JJFIsZ+s1t1hcM49j+uaePZ9HvRYdKKI1Ea8mvfk8ZHbfO9MOBlEw4Zs nqTIOCr98CrFUAYMj0aPlTYiFo5rN5/OuZnVbF9YWh1/pL8W0PJgaUOwDvnTgQ7+K1TFJVF9c44Qv OmplXofQ/2nbM/50UBosivOaOOAAsWE8ohSgIWKWpdpQfXwFnGFkilhH4GyRPBDPDq1O6gpHOswM3 vjTxXhqXeC16LLa5jjS9PpgH9PpcQIKPuBKut9hm+ArO5dVlqZ/f7/zq+VcyE3wt3Vfu94/ac7aQ6 bh8QcNW/5d5ZQRF2Ah9d7g==; Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 15:53:26 +0200 Message-Id: <83zfxdmh0p.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <CADwFkm=D0FdxoiUi3Q5VfT2rz8uD-TrvXDf_7y5cKG9UYOc54w@HIDDEN> (message from Stefan Kangas on Wed, 10 Jan 2024 04:51:48 -0800) Subject: Re: bug#68236: [PATCH] help.el: allow help-quick to use local commands/quick-sections References: <1B0F351A-C393-4C1B-B883-814F2C33E802@HIDDEN> <83a5ply2ca.fsf@HIDDEN> <721ABC11-E691-43F9-9034-F375240C2E20@HIDDEN> <83sf3dw699.fsf@HIDDEN> <4CB34A88-87DE-4347-A886-4BF8D4998E67@HIDDEN> <835y08w4v1.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=D0FdxoiUi3Q5VfT2rz8uD-TrvXDf_7y5cKG9UYOc54w@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 68236 Cc: philipk@HIDDEN, 68236 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, jdtsmith@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN> > Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 04:51:48 -0800 > Cc: 68236 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN> > > I think a more specific cheat sheet for major modes would be more > suitable, yes. > > Here's an idea that I've had: > > Typically, I only want to remember a few commands in each major mode. > It would be useful to be able to mark them for highlighting or somesuch > in the general describe-mode *Help* buffer (preferably using keys, and > not using M-x customize, though they could persist by saving the result > to the custom file). Then, the next time I display `describe-mode', > they would be highlighted, in this or future sessions. How about > something like that? > > We could also add a separate command to show only those commands somehow > in a similar way to `help-quick-toggle'. Something along these lines, yes.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#68236; Package emacs.
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[24.53.187.34]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c27-20020a05620a11bb00b007816cf21f7asm711852qkk.76.2024.01.05.09.00.43 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 05 Jan 2024 09:00:43 -0800 (PST) From: JD Smith <jdtsmith@HIDDEN> Message-Id: <F4B94E6F-8841-4AE6-B123-02B89EE22DAE@HIDDEN> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_E7F07FC7-5300-4430-9253-F145EF9BB797" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3774.300.61.1.2\)) Subject: Re: bug#68236: [PATCH] help.el: allow help-quick to use local commands/quick-sections Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2024 12:00:32 -0500 In-Reply-To: <835y08w4v1.fsf@HIDDEN> To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> References: <1B0F351A-C393-4C1B-B883-814F2C33E802@HIDDEN> <83a5ply2ca.fsf@HIDDEN> <721ABC11-E691-43F9-9034-F375240C2E20@HIDDEN> <83sf3dw699.fsf@HIDDEN> <4CB34A88-87DE-4347-A886-4BF8D4998E67@HIDDEN> <835y08w4v1.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3774.300.61.1.2) X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 68236 Cc: 68236 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --Apple-Mail=_E7F07FC7-5300-4430-9253-F145EF9BB797 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Jan 5, 2024, at 3:40=E2=80=AFAM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> = wrote: >=20 >> From: JD Smith <jdtsmith@HIDDEN> >> Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2024 20:28:27 -0500 >> Cc: 68236 <at> debbugs.gnu.org >>=20 >>> On Jan 4, 2024, at 8:57=E2=80=AFAM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> = wrote: >>>=20 >>> If we are going to expose help-quick-sections as a defcustom, then I >>> don't understand why we need to change the code at all. Is the idea >>> that sections will depend on the current buffer? If so, then we = just >>> need to add an element to the list members which will store the >>> major-mode for which the member is relevant. >>>=20 >>> Or what am I missing? >>=20 >> Right now the code does >>=20 >> (with-current-buffer (get-buffer-create "*Quick Help*") >>=20 >> right away, then checks `where-is-internal' for each listed command = in `help-quick-sections'. So only global bindings (and bindings = available in help-mode) are accessible for display. My patch simply = delays switching to *Quick Help* buffer, so that binding information can = be gathered from the local buffer from which quick help was summoned. = Note that help-quick omits any bindings that are nil, as well as any = empty sections. So adding sections to the defcustom that do not apply = (=3Dhave no bindings) in some buffer is not a problem. =20 >=20 > Your proposal has the disadvantage that the user must switch to a > buffer under some major mode to see the entries for that mode in the > quick-help window. It could be an annoyance; e.g., consider a user > who wants to see this while in a *Help* buffer. And I don't think > being in the buffer under the major mode is the only way of getting > mode-specific bindings; for example, where-is-internal can accept a > KEYMAP argument, which will be used to find key bindings. The current disadvantage is related, but much worse than this: you = currently cannot configure quick help to show any bindings other than = global and help-mode bindings. It might be nice to see e.g. = org-bindings from anywhere, but to me it=E2=80=99s an advantage to show = =E2=80=9Cquick help for this mode=E2=80=9D. > Or maybe we should have a separate command for cheat sheets specific > to a major mode. The window we pop up cannot be too large, so if the > user only wants a quick help for the current mode, she might consider > global bindings an annoying waste of screen estate. =20 I=E2=80=99d probably disable most of the global bindings, since I = already know those. But some are useful (e.g. I often forget the = project bindings). =20 > Moreover, the > current quick help shows "popular commands", which are likely to be > already known to some users, whereas when the user works in a major > mode that is new to the user, one is likely to be in the need of the > cheat sheet for that one mode. (Yes, we do already have "C-h b", but > the output of that could be overwhelming: for example in an Org buffer > I get almost 1400 lines in the *Help* buffer showing the Org-specific > bindings.) Agree, this is a real problem for discoverability. Also command names = are not always informative enough to find what you are actually looking = for (org is terrible for this). > IOW, if we want to consider mode-specific quick help, we should > perhaps discuss more about the goals before we consider code tricks to > implement it. I do like this idea. Perhaps mode authors could add a =E2=80=9Cstarter = pack=E2=80=9D of this information themselves, if they are suitably = admonished to keep this information brief, high level, and with clear = few-word command descriptions. Perhaps adding a =E2=80=98help-quick = property to the mode command symbol? =20 One guiding principle I suggest: users in the end should be able to = decide what quick help they need; what=E2=80=99s memorable for some may = be frequently forgotten for others.=20 --Apple-Mail=_E7F07FC7-5300-4430-9253-F145EF9BB797 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 <html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word; = -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><br = id=3D"lineBreakAtBeginningOfMessage"><div><br><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><div>On Jan 5, 2024, at 3:40=E2=80=AFAM, Eli Zaretskii = <eliz@HIDDEN> wrote:</div><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div><meta = charset=3D"UTF-8"><blockquote type=3D"cite" style=3D"font-family: = Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: = normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;">From: JD Smith = <jdtsmith@HIDDEN><br>Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2024 20:28:27 = -0500<br>Cc: 68236 <at> debbugs.gnu.org<br><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On = Jan 4, 2024, at 8:57=E2=80=AFAM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> = wrote:<br><br>If we are going to expose help-quick-sections as a = defcustom, then I<br>don't understand why we need to change the code at = all. Is the idea<br>that sections will depend on the current = buffer? If so, then we just<br>need to add an element to the list = members which will store the<br>major-mode for which the member is = relevant.<br><br>Or what am I missing?<br></blockquote><br>Right now the = code does<br><br> (with-current-buffer (get-buffer-create "*Quick = Help*")<br><br>right away, then checks `where-is-internal' for each = listed command in `help-quick-sections'. So only global bindings = (and bindings available in help-mode) are accessible for display. = My patch simply delays switching to *Quick Help* buffer, so that = binding information can be gathered from the local buffer from which = quick help was summoned. Note that help-quick omits any bindings = that are nil, as well as any empty sections. So adding sections to = the defcustom that do not apply (=3Dhave no bindings) in some buffer is = not a problem. <br></blockquote><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, = 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">Your = proposal has the disadvantage that the user must switch to a</span><br = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; = display: inline !important;">buffer under some major mode to see the = entries for that mode in the</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, = 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline = !important;">quick-help window. It could be an annoyance; e.g., = consider a user</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">who = wants to see this while in a *Help* buffer. And I don't = think</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: = Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: = normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; = font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; = font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none; float: none; display: inline !important;">being in the buffer = under the major mode is the only way of getting</span><br = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; = display: inline !important;">mode-specific bindings; for example, = where-is-internal can accept a</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, = 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">KEYMAP = argument, which will be used to find key bindings.</span><br = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none;"></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>The current disadvantage = is related, but much worse than this: you currently cannot configure = quick help to show <i>any </i>bindings other than global and = help-mode bindings. It might be nice to see e.g. org-bindings from = <i>anywhere</i>, but to me it=E2=80=99s an advantage to show =E2=80=9Cquic= k help for this mode=E2=80=9D.</div><br><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><div><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">Or = maybe we should have a separate command for cheat sheets = specific</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: = Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: = normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; = font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; = font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none; float: none; display: inline !important;">to a major mode. = The window we pop up cannot be too large, so if the</span><br = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; = display: inline !important;">user only wants a quick help for the = current mode, she might consider</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, = 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">global = bindings an annoying waste of screen estate. = </span></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I=E2=80=99d probably = disable most of the global bindings, since I already know those. = But <i>some</i> are useful (e.g. I often forget the project = bindings). </div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><span = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; = display: inline !important;">Moreover, the</span><br style=3D"caret-color:= rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: = normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: = normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; = white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">current = quick help shows "popular commands", which are likely to be</span><br = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; = display: inline !important;">already known to some users, whereas when = the user works in a major</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">mode = that is new to the user, one is likely to be in the need of = the</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: = Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: = normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; = font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; = font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none; float: none; display: inline !important;">cheat sheet for that one = mode. (Yes, we do already have "C-h b", but</span><br = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; = display: inline !important;">the output of that could be overwhelming: = for example in an Org buffer</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, = 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">I get = almost 1400 lines in the *Help* buffer showing the = Org-specific</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: = Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: = normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; = font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; = font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none; float: none; display: inline !important;">bindings.)</span><br = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none;"></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Agree, this is a real = problem for discoverability. Also command names are not always = informative enough to find what you are actually looking for (org is = terrible for this).</div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><span = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; = display: inline !important;">IOW, if we want to consider mode-specific = quick help, we should</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; = font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; = text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: = normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">perhaps = discuss more about the goals before we consider code tricks to</span><br = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span = style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: = 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; = letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; = text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; = display: inline !important;">implement it.</span><br style=3D"caret-color:= rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: = normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: = normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; = white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = text-decoration: none;"></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I do like = this idea. Perhaps mode authors could add a =E2=80=9Cstarter = pack=E2=80=9D of this information themselves, if they are suitably = admonished to keep this information brief, high level, and with clear = few-word command descriptions. Perhaps adding a =E2=80=98help-quick = property to the mode command symbol? </div><div><br></div><div>One = guiding principle I suggest: users in the end should be able to decide = what quick help they need; what=E2=80=99s memorable for some may be = frequently forgotten for others. </div></div><br></body></html>= --Apple-Mail=_E7F07FC7-5300-4430-9253-F145EF9BB797--
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#68236; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 68236) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Jan 2024 08:40:37 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jan 05 03:40:37 2024 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56341 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1rLfkr-0000b9-3a for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2024 03:40:37 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:43598) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1rLfkl-0000al-E3 for 68236 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2024 03:40:35 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1rLfkb-0007QP-QJ; Fri, 05 Jan 2024 03:40:21 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=zQvp67e1O6SybjSfzeuVAafwpNTbMUqC/jJL/Jmoraw=; b=Zu3tycmQZZvoQhQl31+z j7fKRpZr1bLQwUP/cJmYmpYLVFYoVNNB3cRe+ZbWrRexa3n7zZFyYejRtSbxLK7jnlTSPTv/puqLp OCptOezFx1bIKyGZ4BRDFp3/QhuRhC171Pk/DnpebtRDoC6zFhMdnRM/aHACyMpi6vUdBOu2soFib sFncyKn6ynkzMFcZhjFmLUsvE7/Nt9fDJQl97ubAj0Ri2hIZRakWbnFqNc1jU0VDcu1saXIcLvjxy sflnTGig2lDHEjp+IkB5ChDPnSycui+ctaR0C7Kt4D6MPDX/RkuQao+AowB2/1sA8EVtqYffS0Lvk eNVqeCtVhchZ0g==; Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2024 10:40:02 +0200 Message-Id: <835y08w4v1.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: JD Smith <jdtsmith@HIDDEN>, Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <4CB34A88-87DE-4347-A886-4BF8D4998E67@HIDDEN> (message from JD Smith on Thu, 4 Jan 2024 20:28:27 -0500) Subject: Re: bug#68236: [PATCH] help.el: allow help-quick to use local commands/quick-sections References: <1B0F351A-C393-4C1B-B883-814F2C33E802@HIDDEN> <83a5ply2ca.fsf@HIDDEN> <721ABC11-E691-43F9-9034-F375240C2E20@HIDDEN> <83sf3dw699.fsf@HIDDEN> <4CB34A88-87DE-4347-A886-4BF8D4998E67@HIDDEN> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 68236 Cc: 68236 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: JD Smith <jdtsmith@HIDDEN> > Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2024 20:28:27 -0500 > Cc: 68236 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > > > On Jan 4, 2024, at 8:57 AM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> wrote: > > > > If we are going to expose help-quick-sections as a defcustom, then I > > don't understand why we need to change the code at all. Is the idea > > that sections will depend on the current buffer? If so, then we just > > need to add an element to the list members which will store the > > major-mode for which the member is relevant. > > > > Or what am I missing? > > Right now the code does > > (with-current-buffer (get-buffer-create "*Quick Help*") > > right away, then checks `where-is-internal' for each listed command in `help-quick-sections'. So only global bindings (and bindings available in help-mode) are accessible for display. My patch simply delays switching to *Quick Help* buffer, so that binding information can be gathered from the local buffer from which quick help was summoned. Note that help-quick omits any bindings that are nil, as well as any empty sections. So adding sections to the defcustom that do not apply (=have no bindings) in some buffer is not a problem. Your proposal has the disadvantage that the user must switch to a buffer under some major mode to see the entries for that mode in the quick-help window. It could be an annoyance; e.g., consider a user who wants to see this while in a *Help* buffer. And I don't think being in the buffer under the major mode is the only way of getting mode-specific bindings; for example, where-is-internal can accept a KEYMAP argument, which will be used to find key bindings. Or maybe we should have a separate command for cheat sheets specific to a major mode. The window we pop up cannot be too large, so if the user only wants a quick help for the current mode, she might consider global bindings an annoying waste of screen estate. Moreover, the current quick help shows "popular commands", which are likely to be already known to some users, whereas when the user works in a major mode that is new to the user, one is likely to be in the need of the cheat sheet for that one mode. (Yes, we do already have "C-h b", but the output of that could be overwhelming: for example in an Org buffer I get almost 1400 lines in the *Help* buffer showing the Org-specific bindings.) IOW, if we want to consider mode-specific quick help, we should perhaps discuss more about the goals before we consider code tricks to implement it. Stefan, WDYT?
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Subject: Re: bug#68236: [PATCH] help.el: allow help-quick to use local
commands/quick-sections
From: JD Smith <jdtsmith@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <83sf3dw699.fsf@HIDDEN>
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2024 20:28:27 -0500
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<83a5ply2ca.fsf@HIDDEN> <721ABC11-E691-43F9-9034-F375240C2E20@HIDDEN>
<83sf3dw699.fsf@HIDDEN>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
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> On Jan 4, 2024, at 8:57=E2=80=AFAM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> =
wrote:
>=20
>> From: JD Smith <jdtsmith@HIDDEN>
>> Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2024 08:45:50 -0500
>> Cc: 68236 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>>=20
>> On Jan 4, 2024, at 2:39=E2=80=AFAM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> =
wrote:
>>=20
>> Please describe in more detail how would people use this for their
>> personal "quick help", because I don't think I understand well enough
>> what you have in mind.
>>=20
>> For example, an org user may
>>=20
>> (add-to-list 'help-quick-sections
>> '("Org"
>> (org-ctrl-c-star . "Compute table/change heading ")
>> (org-ctrl-c-ret . "Table hline/insert heading")))
>>=20
>> so that from org-buffers, C-h C-q adds a new section:
>>=20
>> Org =20
>> C-c * Compute table/change heading=20
>> C-c RET Table hline/insert heading =20
>>=20
>> Most likely users willing to customize `help-quick-sections=E2=80=99 =
would remove existing sections with
>> commands they know well. =20
>>=20
>> In any case, such a change will need suitable changes for
>> documentation.
>>=20
>> Do you mean documentation for the `help-quick-sections' variable? =
How about turning this into a
>> defcustom? This would allow more advanced users to fully customize =
what =E2=80=9Cquick help=E2=80=9D they want.
>=20
> If we are going to expose help-quick-sections as a defcustom, then I
> don't understand why we need to change the code at all. Is the idea
> that sections will depend on the current buffer? If so, then we just
> need to add an element to the list members which will store the
> major-mode for which the member is relevant.
>=20
> Or what am I missing?
Right now the code does
(with-current-buffer (get-buffer-create "*Quick Help*")
right away, then checks `where-is-internal' for each listed command in =
`help-quick-sections'. So only global bindings (and bindings available =
in help-mode) are accessible for display. My patch simply delays =
switching to *Quick Help* buffer, so that binding information can be =
gathered from the local buffer from which quick help was summoned. Note =
that help-quick omits any bindings that are nil, as well as any empty =
sections. So adding sections to the defcustom that do not apply (=3Dhave =
no bindings) in some buffer is not a problem. =20=
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#68236; Package emacs.
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From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
To: JD Smith <jdtsmith@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <721ABC11-E691-43F9-9034-F375240C2E20@HIDDEN> (message from JD
Smith on Thu, 4 Jan 2024 08:45:50 -0500)
Subject: Re: bug#68236: [PATCH] help.el: allow help-quick to use local
commands/quick-sections
References: <1B0F351A-C393-4C1B-B883-814F2C33E802@HIDDEN>
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> From: JD Smith <jdtsmith@HIDDEN>
> Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2024 08:45:50 -0500
> Cc: 68236 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>
> On Jan 4, 2024, at 2:39 AM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> wrote:
>
> Please describe in more detail how would people use this for their
> personal "quick help", because I don't think I understand well enough
> what you have in mind.
>
> For example, an org user may
>
> (add-to-list 'help-quick-sections
> '("Org"
> (org-ctrl-c-star . "Compute table/change heading ")
> (org-ctrl-c-ret . "Table hline/insert heading")))
>
> so that from org-buffers, C-h C-q adds a new section:
>
> Org
> C-c * Compute table/change heading
> C-c RET Table hline/insert heading
>
> Most likely users willing to customize `help-quick-sections’ would remove existing sections with
> commands they know well.
>
> In any case, such a change will need suitable changes for
> documentation.
>
> Do you mean documentation for the `help-quick-sections' variable? How about turning this into a
> defcustom? This would allow more advanced users to fully customize what “quick help” they want.
If we are going to expose help-quick-sections as a defcustom, then I
don't understand why we need to change the code at all. Is the idea
that sections will depend on the current buffer? If so, then we just
need to add an element to the list members which will store the
major-mode for which the member is relevant.
Or what am I missing?
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#68236; Package emacs.
Full text available.
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Subject: Re: bug#68236: [PATCH] help.el: allow help-quick to use local
commands/quick-sections
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2024 08:45:50 -0500
In-Reply-To: <83a5ply2ca.fsf@HIDDEN>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
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--Apple-Mail=_BA2E0AC0-2B62-4174-AF56-0BA1F746360E
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charset=utf-8
> On Jan 4, 2024, at 2:39=E2=80=AFAM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> =
wrote:
>=20
> Please describe in more detail how would people use this for their
> personal "quick help", because I don't think I understand well enough
> what you have in mind.
For example, an org user may
(add-to-list 'help-quick-sections
'("Org"
(org-ctrl-c-star . "Compute table/change heading ")
(org-ctrl-c-ret . "Table hline/insert heading")))
so that from org-buffers, C-h C-q adds a new section:
Org =20
C-c * Compute table/change heading=20
C-c RET Table hline/insert heading =20
Most likely users willing to customize `help-quick-sections=E2=80=99 =
would remove existing sections with commands they know well. =20
> In any case, such a change will need suitable changes for
> documentation.
Do you mean documentation for the `help-quick-sections' variable? How =
about turning this into a defcustom? This would allow more advanced =
users to fully customize what =E2=80=9Cquick help=E2=80=9D they want.=
--Apple-Mail=_BA2E0AC0-2B62-4174-AF56-0BA1F746360E
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
charset=utf-8
<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><br =
id=3D"lineBreakAtBeginningOfMessage"><div><br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div>On Jan 4, 2024, at 2:39=E2=80=AFAM, Eli Zaretskii =
<eliz@HIDDEN> wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div><span style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: =
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">Please =
describe in more detail how would people use this for their</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;">personal "quick help", because I don't =
think I understand well enough</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">what =
you have in mind.</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>For =
example, an org user may</div><div><br></div><div><div>(add-to-list =
'help-quick-sections</div><div> =
'("Org"</div><div><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space:pre"> </span> =
(org-ctrl-c-star . "Compute table/change heading ")</div><div><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre"> </span> =
(org-ctrl-c-ret . "Table hline/insert =
heading")))</div><div><br></div><div>so that from org-buffers, C-h C-q =
adds a new section:</div><div><br></div><div><div>Org =
=
</div><div>C-c * Compute =
table/change heading </div><div>C-c RET Table hline/insert heading =
</div><div><br></div><div>Most likely users willing to =
customize `help-quick-sections=E2=80=99 would remove existing sections =
with commands they know well. </div></div></div><br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;">In any =
case, such a change will need suitable changes for</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;">documentation.</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; =
letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;"></div></blockquote></div><br><div>Do you mean documentation for =
the `help-quick-sections' variable? How about turning this into a =
defcustom? This would allow more advanced users to fully customize =
what =E2=80=9Cquick help=E2=80=9D they want.</div></body></html>=
--Apple-Mail=_BA2E0AC0-2B62-4174-AF56-0BA1F746360E--
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#68236; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 68236) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Jan 2024 07:39:43 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jan 04 02:39:43 2024 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53558 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1rLIKM-0003sX-Lp for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 04 Jan 2024 02:39:42 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:58748) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1rLIKL-0003sK-AT for 68236 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 04 Jan 2024 02:39:42 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1rLIKB-0006Ym-T2; Thu, 04 Jan 2024 02:39:32 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=hsZpE+l+6lU4bBhJ4NTgsoH/bdGUUFgqIJaZHq5Faqg=; b=Mnu16Iq9mkwYyBxvsI4I YocKLGA9WVQg4DqQKvXtHUxmTqpO3BFu1j29ftVBHWJcw8v0QUsZP6ebfO6YHHxkYlcz3/BqEPUJl JtqXgZ5k0qJY/hYWYTAaKUsXtQ6TBOwLxSjZ63CPYcq7Kbco4btVZTBDXGhVc7MCyTyGbpsr9jn2L lBQact0v1H5+ec2+Tm89H1AW/h8tirZghTvy8wyVvqAOqOKEN0FBAjbQqRN+NHpcHgi38TRZ6QAy7 j62y+/C2OlniydrWPmcLQgMQXXZeQWfy8Bmdfu6UJP/RbSJNfhS77B8j7mFszqFw5n4NiGX5AxAkS vYK16nkTrnI0zA==; Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2024 09:39:17 +0200 Message-Id: <83a5ply2ca.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: JD Smith <jdtsmith@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <1B0F351A-C393-4C1B-B883-814F2C33E802@HIDDEN> (message from JD Smith on Wed, 3 Jan 2024 22:08:56 -0500) Subject: Re: bug#68236: [PATCH] help.el: allow help-quick to use local commands/quick-sections References: <1B0F351A-C393-4C1B-B883-814F2C33E802@HIDDEN> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 68236 Cc: 68236 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: JD Smith <jdtsmith@HIDDEN> > Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2024 22:08:56 -0500 > > Someone came up with the great idea of using help.el’s `help-quick' command for a personal “scratch pad” of useful/hard-to-remember bindings, and then to bind `help-quick-sections' locally in various modes. Unfortunately, `help-quick' first sets the buffer to *Quick Help* and then builds its list of command bindings and descriptions. This means that only the default value of `help-quick-sections’ will ever be consulted, and no local key bindings can be expressed. > > The fix is simple; build the list of quick help information first in the current buffer (from which C-h C-q is called) and then displaying it in the *Quick Help* buffer. With this, people can use quick help and its handy binding to prompt with their own personal hard-to-remember key bindings/command info. What’s cool is that help-quick omits “empty” sections, so you could even add a variety of sections, and they will appear if and only if bindings are actually available in the buffer where quick help is invoked. Please describe in more detail how would people use this for their personal "quick help", because I don't think I understand well enough what you have in mind. In any case, such a change will need suitable changes for documentation. Thanks.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#68236; Package emacs.
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Subject: [PATCH] help.el: allow help-quick to use local commands/quick-sections
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Someone came up with the great idea of using help.el=E2=80=99s =
`help-quick' command for a personal =E2=80=9Cscratch pad=E2=80=9D of =
useful/hard-to-remember bindings, and then to bind `help-quick-sections' =
locally in various modes. Unfortunately, `help-quick' first sets the =
buffer to *Quick Help* and then builds its list of command bindings and =
descriptions. This means that only the default value of =
`help-quick-sections=E2=80=99 will ever be consulted, and no local key =
bindings can be expressed. =20
The fix is simple; build the list of quick help information first in the =
current buffer (from which C-h C-q is called) and then displaying it in =
the *Quick Help* buffer. With this, people can use quick help and its =
handy binding to prompt with their own personal hard-to-remember key =
bindings/command info. What=E2=80=99s cool is that help-quick omits =
=E2=80=9Cempty=E2=80=9D sections, so you could even add a variety of =
sections, and they will appear if and only if bindings are actually =
available in the buffer where quick help is invoked.
+++
diff -u lisp/help.el lisp/help_fix_quick.el
--- lisp/help.el 2024-01-03 21:54:46
+++ lisp/help_fix_quick.el 2024-01-03 21:52:46
@@ -173,78 +173,79 @@
(defun help-quick ()
"Display a quick-help buffer."
(interactive)
- (with-current-buffer (get-buffer-create "*Quick Help*")
- (let ((inhibit-read-only t) (padding 2) blocks)
+ (let ((buf (get-buffer-create "*Quick Help*"))
+ (inhibit-read-only t) (padding 2) blocks)
=20
- ;; Go through every section and prepare a text-rectangle to be
- ;; inserted later.
- (dolist (section help-quick-sections)
- (let ((max-key-len 0) (max-cmd-len 0) keys)
- (dolist (ent (reverse (cdr section)))
- (catch 'skip
- (let* ((bind (where-is-internal (car ent) nil t))
- (key (if bind
- (propertize
- (key-description bind)
- 'face 'help-key-binding)
- (throw 'skip nil))))
- (setq max-cmd-len (max (length (cdr ent)) max-cmd-len)
- max-key-len (max (length key) max-key-len))
- (push (list key (cdr ent) (car ent)) keys))))
- (when keys
- (let ((fmt (format "%%-%ds %%-%ds%s" max-key-len =
max-cmd-len
- (make-string padding ?\s)))
- (width (+ max-key-len 1 max-cmd-len padding)))
- (push `(,width
- ,(propertize
- (concat
- (car section)
- (make-string (- width (length (car section))) =
?\s))
- 'face 'bold)
- ,@(mapcar (lambda (ent)
- (format fmt
- (propertize
- (car ent)
- 'quick-help-cmd
- (caddr ent))
- (cadr ent)))
- keys))
- blocks)))))
+ ;; Go through every section and prepare a text-rectangle to be
+ ;; inserted later.
+ (dolist (section help-quick-sections)
+ (let ((max-key-len 0) (max-cmd-len 0) keys)
+ (dolist (ent (reverse (cdr section)))
+ (catch 'skip
+ (let* ((bind (where-is-internal (car ent) nil t))
+ (key (if bind
+ (propertize
+ (key-description bind)
+ 'face 'help-key-binding)
+ (throw 'skip nil))))
+ (setq max-cmd-len (max (length (cdr ent)) max-cmd-len)
+ max-key-len (max (length key) max-key-len))
+ (push (list key (cdr ent) (car ent)) keys))))
+ (when keys
+ (let ((fmt (format "%%-%ds %%-%ds%s" max-key-len max-cmd-len
+ (make-string padding ?\s)))
+ (width (+ max-key-len 1 max-cmd-len padding)))
+ (push `(,width
+ ,(propertize
+ (concat
+ (car section)
+ (make-string (- width (length (car section))) =
?\s))
+ 'face 'bold)
+ ,@(mapcar (lambda (ent)
+ (format fmt
+ (propertize
+ (car ent)
+ 'quick-help-cmd
+ (caddr ent))
+ (cadr ent)))
+ keys))
+ blocks)))))
=20
- ;; Insert each rectangle in order until they don't fit into the
- ;; frame any more, in which case the next sections are inserted
- ;; in a new "line".
+ ;; Insert each rectangle in order until they don't fit into the
+ ;; frame any more, in which case the next sections are inserted
+ ;; in a new "line".
+ (with-current-buffer buf
(erase-buffer)
(dolist (block (nreverse blocks))
- (when (> (+ (car block) (current-column)) (frame-width))
+ (when (> (+ (car block) (current-column)) (frame-width))
(goto-char (point-max))
(newline 2))
- (save-excursion
+ (save-excursion
(insert-rectangle (cdr block)))
- (end-of-line))
+ (end-of-line))
(delete-trailing-whitespace)
=20
(save-excursion
- (goto-char (point-min))
- (while-let ((match (text-property-search-forward =
'quick-help-cmd)))
+ (goto-char (point-min))
+ (while-let ((match (text-property-search-forward =
'quick-help-cmd)))
(make-text-button (prop-match-beginning match)
(prop-match-end match)
'mouse-face 'highlight
'button t
'keymap button-map
'action #'describe-symbol
- 'button-data (prop-match-value match)))))
+ 'button-data (prop-match-value match))))
=20
- (help-mode)
+ (help-mode))
=20
;; Display the buffer at the bottom of the frame...
- (with-selected-window (display-buffer-at-bottom (current-buffer) =
'())
+ (with-selected-window (display-buffer-at-bottom buf '())
;; ... mark it as dedicated to prevent focus from being stolen
(set-window-dedicated-p (selected-window) t)
;; ... and shrink it immediately.
- (fit-window-to-buffer))
- (message
- (substitute-command-keys "Toggle the quick help buffer using =
\\[help-quick-toggle]."))))
+ (fit-window-to-buffer)))
+ (message
+ (substitute-command-keys "Toggle the quick help buffer using =
\\[help-quick-toggle].")))
=20
(defun help-quick-toggle ()
"Toggle the quick-help window."
JD Smith <jdtsmith@HIDDEN>:bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.
Full text available.bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#68236; Package emacs.
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