GNU bug report logs - #70155
29.3; Several Emacs Lisp list functions accept non-list arguments

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Package: emacs; Severity: wishlist; Reported by: <tpeplt@HIDDEN>; Keywords: wontfix; Done: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN>; Maintainer for emacs is bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.

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From: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN>
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Subject: Re: bug#70155: 29.3; Several Emacs Lisp list functions accept
 non-list arguments
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Cc: 70155-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, tpeplt@HIDDEN,
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Mattias Engdeg=C3=A5rd <mattias.engdegard@HIDDEN> writes:

> 27 apr. 2024 kl. 10.22 skrev Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>:
>
>> Mattias, Stefan: any comments on this?  Should we document this, or
>> should we change the code?
>
> Eli, thank you for bringing this to our attention. I personally don't see=
 much that we need to change.

Mattias provided an explanation for why we shouldn't (or don't need to)
make any changes here.  I think it makes sense, so I'm closing this as
wontfix.
Notification sent to <tpeplt@HIDDEN>:
bug acknowledged by developer. Full text available.
Reply sent to Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN>:
You have taken responsibility. Full text available.
Added tag(s) wontfix. Request was from Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN> to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org. Full text available.
Severity set to 'wishlist' from 'normal' Request was from Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN> to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org. Full text available.

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To: =?utf-8?B?TWF0dGlhcyBFbmdkZWfDpXJk?= <mattias.engdegard@HIDDEN>, Eli
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Subject: RE: [External] : bug#70155: 29.3; Several Emacs Lisp list functions
 accept non-list arguments
Thread-Topic: [External] : bug#70155: 29.3; Several Emacs Lisp list functions
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Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#70155; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 70155 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, "tpeplt@HIDDEN" <tpeplt@HIDDEN>,
 =?utf-8?B?TWF0dGlhcyBFbmdkZWfDpXJk?= <mattiase@HIDDEN>, Stefan Monnier
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Subject: RE: [External] : bug#70155: 29.3; Several Emacs Lisp list functions
 accept non-list arguments
Thread-Topic: [External] : bug#70155: 29.3; Several Emacs Lisp list functions
 accept non-list arguments
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Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2024 14:38:05 +0000
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Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#70155; Package emacs. Full text available.

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Subject: Re: bug#70155: 29.3; Several Emacs Lisp list functions accept
 non-list arguments
From: =?utf-8?Q?Mattias_Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= <mattias.engdegard@HIDDEN>
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27 apr. 2024 kl. 10.22 skrev Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>:

> Mattias, Stefan: any comments on this?  Should we document this, or
> should we change the code?

Eli, thank you for bringing this to our attention. I personally don't =
see much that we need to change.
Our priorities in Lisp are, arguably:

1. Well-defined behaviour should work as documented.
2. Undefined behaviour (ie, usage errors) should not cause crashes or =
corruption. This is what we usually call 'safety', or protecting the =
system's own abstractions.
3. Useful error conditions (such as file-not-found) should work as =
documented or at least be handled in a predictable and useful way.
4. The implementation should be efficient.
5. Incorrect usage should be detected and signalled as far as =
pragmatically possible, to help programmers find mistakes in their code.

The low ranking of the last item means that we don't necessarily promise =
to signal an error for every mistake a programmer can make.

However, in this case there are also algebraic motivations for the =
behaviour:

> From: <tpeplt@HIDDEN>
> Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2024 19:15:28 -0400
>=20
>> The built-in Emacs Lisp functions =E2=80=98last=E2=80=99, =
=E2=80=98nthcdr=E2=80=99, =E2=80=98take=E2=80=99,
>> and =E2=80=98ntake=E2=80=99 are functions that accept lists as an =
argument.
>> However, they also accept non-list arguments without
>> signaling an error.

(nth 1 '(a b . c)) does not signal an error nor do we expect it to, so =
it's reasonable that

  (take 2 '(a b . c)) -> (a b)
  (take 1 '(a . b))   -> (a)
  (take 0 'a)         -> ()

do not signal errors either. nthcdr is the complement of [n]take and =
behaves the same way with respect to nonpositive arguments, and in fact =
has the definition

  (nthcdr N L) =3D (cdr^N L)

for all naturals N, which means that

  (nthcdr 0 'a)       -> a

is correct.

(Of course if you ask me, I'd prefer it if lists were guaranteed to be =
proper, immutable, with the empty list an object distinct from the =
symbol nil and the false boolean value. Maybe next year.)

`last` works in the same way:

  (last '(xN ... x1 . x0) M)
  -> (last '(x{min(N,M)} ... x1 . x0) M)

with the base case

  (last '(xN ... x1 . x0) 0) -> x0

ie,

  (last x0 0) -> x0

for any atom x0.
Finally, [n]butlast are just [n]take with a different numeric argument, =
but here the special case

  (butlast X 0) -> X

is motivated by performance considerations; it's more important to have =
it go in constant time.
Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#70155; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 70155 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2024 11:22:06 +0300
Message-Id: <86ttjnw6z5.fsf@HIDDEN>
From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
To: tpeplt@HIDDEN, Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= <mattiase@HIDDEN>,
 Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <87y19v8igf.fsf@HIDDEN> (tpeplt@HIDDEN)
Subject: Re: bug#70155: 29.3;
 Several Emacs Lisp list functions accept non-list arguments
References: <87y19v8igf.fsf@HIDDEN>
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> From: <tpeplt@HIDDEN>
> Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2024 19:15:28 -0400
> 
> 
> The built-in Emacs Lisp functions ‘last’, ‘nthcdr’, ‘take’,
> and ‘ntake’ are functions that accept lists as an argument.
> However, they also accept non-list arguments without
> signaling an error.  This is not documented in their
> docstrings or in the Emacs Lisp reference manual.  The
> behavior of the related list functions ‘butlast’ and
> ‘nbutlast’ is that an error is signaled when the function’s
> list argument is not a list.
> 
> If it is intended that the functions ‘last’, ‘nthcdr’,
> ‘take’, and ‘ntake’ should accept non-list arguments without
> signaling an error, then this should be documented.
> Otherwise, these functions should be changed to behave
> consistent with other list functions by signaling an error
> when an expected list argument is not a list.
> 
> This behavior can be seen by following these steps:
> 
> 1. Start Emacs at a shell prompt with option ‘-Q’: $ emacs -Q
> 
> 2. Evaluate the following expressions in the *scratch*
>    buffer.  Note that ‘last’ does not signal an error when a non-list
>    argument is provided:
> 
> (last '(a b c))
> ;;=> (c)
> 
> (last 'a)
> ;;=> a
> 
> (last 3.14)
> ;;=> 3.14
> 
> (last "a string")
> ;;=> "a string"
> 
> 3. Evaluate following expressions with the related function ‘butlast’.
>    Note that the function signals an error when provided a non-list
>    argument.
> 
> (butlast '(a b c))
> ;;=> (a b)
> 
> (butlast 'a)
> ;;=> *** Eval error ***  Wrong type argument: sequencep, a
> 
> (butlast 3.14)
> ;;=> *** Eval error ***  Wrong type argument: sequencep, 3.14
> 
> (butlast "a string")
> ;;=> *** Eval error ***  Wrong type argument: listp, "a string"
> 
> 4. Evaluate the following expressions for ‘nthcdr’, ‘take’, and ‘ntake’.
> 
> As expected, an error is signaled when the (first) number argument is
> non-zero and the list argument is a non-list.
> 
> But no error is signaled when the (first) number argument is zero and
> the list argument is a non-list.
> 
> (nthcdr 0 '(a b c))
> ;;=> (a b c) (correct, as documented)
> 
> (nthcdr 1 'a)
> ;;=> *** Eval error ***  Wrong type argument: listp, a
> 
> (nthcdr 0 'a)
> ;;=> a (expect an error, but got the argument returned instead)
> 
> 
> (take 0 '(a b c))
> ;;=> nil (correct, as documented)
> 
> (take 1 'a) => nil
> ;;=> *** Eval error ***  Wrong type argument: listp, a
> 
> (take 0 'a)
> ;;=> nil (expect an error, but got the argument returned instead)
> 
> 
> (ntake 0 '(a b c))
> ;;=> nil (correct, as documented)
> 
> (ntake 1 'a) => nil
> ;;=> *** Eval error ***  Wrong type argument: listp, a
> 
> (ntake 0 'a)
> ;;=> nil (expect an error, but got the argument returned instead)
> 
> --

Mattias, Stefan: any comments on this?  Should we document this, or
should we change the code?
Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#70155; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 70155 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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To: "tpeplt@HIDDEN" <tpeplt@HIDDEN>, "70155 <at> debbugs.gnu.org"
 <70155 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Subject: RE: [External] : bug#70155: 29.3; Several Emacs Lisp list functions
 accept non-list arguments
Thread-Topic: [External] : bug#70155: 29.3; Several Emacs Lisp list functions
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Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#70155; Package emacs. Full text available.

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From: <tpeplt@HIDDEN>
To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
Subject: 29.3; Several Emacs Lisp list functions accept non-list arguments
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2024 19:15:28 -0400
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The built-in Emacs Lisp functions =E2=80=98last=E2=80=99, =E2=80=98nthcdr=
=E2=80=99, =E2=80=98take=E2=80=99,
and =E2=80=98ntake=E2=80=99 are functions that accept lists as an argument.
However, they also accept non-list arguments without
signaling an error.  This is not documented in their
docstrings or in the Emacs Lisp reference manual.  The
behavior of the related list functions =E2=80=98butlast=E2=80=99 and
=E2=80=98nbutlast=E2=80=99 is that an error is signaled when the function=
=E2=80=99s
list argument is not a list.

If it is intended that the functions =E2=80=98last=E2=80=99, =E2=80=98nthcd=
r=E2=80=99,
=E2=80=98take=E2=80=99, and =E2=80=98ntake=E2=80=99 should accept non-list =
arguments without
signaling an error, then this should be documented.
Otherwise, these functions should be changed to behave
consistent with other list functions by signaling an error
when an expected list argument is not a list.

This behavior can be seen by following these steps:

1. Start Emacs at a shell prompt with option =E2=80=98-Q=E2=80=99: $ emacs =
-Q

2. Evaluate the following expressions in the *scratch*
   buffer.  Note that =E2=80=98last=E2=80=99 does not signal an error when =
a non-list
   argument is provided:

(last '(a b c))
;;=3D> (c)

(last 'a)
;;=3D> a

(last 3.14)
;;=3D> 3.14

(last "a string")
;;=3D> "a string"

3. Evaluate following expressions with the related function =E2=80=98butlas=
t=E2=80=99.
   Note that the function signals an error when provided a non-list
   argument.

(butlast '(a b c))
;;=3D> (a b)

(butlast 'a)
;;=3D> *** Eval error ***  Wrong type argument: sequencep, a

(butlast 3.14)
;;=3D> *** Eval error ***  Wrong type argument: sequencep, 3.14

(butlast "a string")
;;=3D> *** Eval error ***  Wrong type argument: listp, "a string"

4. Evaluate the following expressions for =E2=80=98nthcdr=E2=80=99, =E2=80=
=98take=E2=80=99, and =E2=80=98ntake=E2=80=99.

As expected, an error is signaled when the (first) number argument is
non-zero and the list argument is a non-list.

But no error is signaled when the (first) number argument is zero and
the list argument is a non-list.

(nthcdr 0 '(a b c))
;;=3D> (a b c) (correct, as documented)

(nthcdr 1 'a)
;;=3D> *** Eval error ***  Wrong type argument: listp, a

(nthcdr 0 'a)
;;=3D> a (expect an error, but got the argument returned instead)


(take 0 '(a b c))
;;=3D> nil (correct, as documented)

(take 1 'a) =3D> nil
;;=3D> *** Eval error ***  Wrong type argument: listp, a

(take 0 'a)
;;=3D> nil (expect an error, but got the argument returned instead)


(ntake 0 '(a b c))
;;=3D> nil (correct, as documented)

(ntake 1 'a) =3D> nil
;;=3D> *** Eval error ***  Wrong type argument: listp, a

(ntake 0 'a)
;;=3D> nil (expect an error, but got the argument returned instead)

--
Acknowledgement sent to <tpeplt@HIDDEN>:
New bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN. Full text available.
Report forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#70155; Package emacs. Full text available.
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