Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Apr 2024 16:28:25 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Apr 14 12:28:25 2024 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36051 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1rw2iO-0000gL-Gf for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 14 Apr 2024 12:28:25 -0400 Received: from lists.gnu.org ([2001:470:142::17]:57046) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <geb-bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>) id 1rw2iH-0000fL-Oy for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 14 Apr 2024 12:28:22 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <geb-bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>) id 1rw2i0-0005Xv-TX for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Sun, 14 Apr 2024 12:28:00 -0400 Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <geb-bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>) id 1rw2hz-000702-DH for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Sun, 14 Apr 2024 12:28:00 -0400 Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from <geb-bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>) id 1rw2hv-0007ET-St for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Sun, 14 Apr 2024 18:27:56 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN From: Howard Melman <hmelman@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#70212: Customize Group buffer: add button to reveal underlying variable names Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2024 12:27:46 -0400 Message-ID: <lyzftvoqnx.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <87jzlcmc3n.5.fsf@HIDDEN> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cancel-Lock: sha1:Sp5SmoZM2Gsan2ICnVjpJKfAR1A= Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=geb-bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: 3 X-Spam_score: 0.3 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (0.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD=1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 1.3 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "debbugs.gnu.org", has NOT identified this incoming email as spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Dan Jacobson writes: > The user is in buffer > *Customize Group: Compilation* > > The user sees: > Show Value Compilation Max Output Line Length > Output lines that are longer than this value will be hidden. Hide > If nil [...] Content analysis details: (1.3 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (hmelman[at]gmail.com) 0.0 T_SPF_PERMERROR SPF: test of record failed (permerror) 1.0 FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD 'From' gmail.com does not match 'Received' headers -0.0 SPF_HELO_PASS SPF: HELO matches SPF record 0.2 HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS From and EnvelopeFrom 2nd level mail domains are different 0.0 FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN 2nd level domains in From and EnvelopeFrom freemail headers are different X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) Dan Jacobson <jidanni@HIDDEN> writes: > The user is in buffer > *Customize Group: Compilation* > > The user sees: > Show Value Compilation Max Output Line Length > Output lines that are longer than this value will be hidden. Hide > If nil, don’t hide anything. > > Try as the user might, there is no way for him to discover the > underlying variable there in the interface. The user could click the State button and select "Show Saved Lisp Expression" which will also convert values such as shown in that group for the "Compilation Scroll Output" option. -- Howard
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
:bug#70212
; Package emacs
.
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a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=jidanni.org; s=dreamhost; t=1712385636; bh=ooTHeSn9t5qAj6LVB3vw4vnPAGcYz82G/YNHSSas1hE=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:Content-Type; b=j/eziLq5yfVz4Mr4LONKY9r+RG19xV+zvpEPsJfTSXXITguusWdPb0MwQght6kKvA NfCQYIIEkzaMuHF1cnvkawsx+7bO74+oQrxb9OF94Nla4rA9OdqSmmuz3/2L5ITito sB8bDirwFnpWRv/iKjRW4umdA6SLuKde6x6RkStVB3mFDnuVe+IxxMgoDVIaGUAphr y9OZuiR0y5USCwXdFr/B8Bu8zG4FlqzLAFg+Px40G7eiuJ6qccmWoYRNe3jQqjYGJS a6I6qNYHmLyoOqn9CLhXHerQMIiTUcj8xzTpLkw6rq+QUVOLJwecPjBp3YL778Jk4v 4WjIudMNHLa+A== From: Dan Jacobson <jidanni@HIDDEN> To: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: [External] : bug#70212: Customize Group buffer: add button to reveal underlying variable names References: <87jzlcmc3n.5.fsf@HIDDEN> <86le5r7prl.fsf@HIDDEN> <87h6gfpxhe.fsf@HIDDEN> <SJ0PR10MB5488815D501A6273E8E01373F3032@HIDDEN> Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2024 14:40:32 +0800 Message-ID: <87ttkf3sf3.5.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 70212 Cc: "70212 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <70212 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>, Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN>, =?utf-8?Q?K=C3=A9vin?= Le Gouguec <kevin.legouguec@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) All I'm saying is the user is just inches from being able to find a treasure trove of more information on the thing he is looking at if only there was a button, sure, fitted with a safety cap perhaps, to do it. Fine, label it as the gory details button.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
:bug#70212
; Package emacs
.
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bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
:bug#70212
; Package emacs
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Hide >> If nil, don=E2=80=99t hide anything. >> >> Try as the user might, there is no way for him to discover the >> underlying variable there in the interface. > > You can read the related discussion at bug#41905. And bug#400 (referenced in bug#41905). FWIW I agree making Custom > Help navigation more seamless would be neat; one may first be interested in browsing options via Customize's group hierarchies, then jump to a Help buffer to seek details about a specific variables (:version, estimated introductory release) or use help-mode-map commands (e.g. 'i', 's').
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
:bug#70212
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bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
:bug#70212
; Package emacs
.
Full text available.Received: (at 70212) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Apr 2024 16:14:36 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 05 12:14:36 2024 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37335 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1rsmD6-0000xK-0J for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 05 Apr 2024 12:14:36 -0400 Received: from relay2-d.mail.gandi.net ([2001:4b98:dc4:8::222]:49687) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <juri@HIDDEN>) id 1rsmD4-0000wo-58 for 70212 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 05 Apr 2024 12:14:34 -0400 Received: by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id EA82140007; Fri, 5 Apr 2024 16:14:19 +0000 (UTC) From: Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN> To: Dan Jacobson <jidanni@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#70212: Customize Group buffer: add button to reveal underlying variable names In-Reply-To: <87jzlcmc3n.5.fsf@HIDDEN> (Dan Jacobson's message of "Fri, 05 Apr 2024 16:45:48 +0800") Organization: LINKOV.NET References: <87jzlcmc3n.5.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2024 19:13:10 +0300 Message-ID: <86le5r7prl.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/30.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-GND-Sasl: juri@HIDDEN X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 70212 Cc: 70212 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) > The user is in buffer > *Customize Group: Compilation* > > The user sees: > Show Value Compilation Max Output Line Length > Output lines that are longer than this value will be hidden. Hide > If nil, don’t hide anything. > > Try as the user might, there is no way for him to discover the > underlying variable there in the interface. You can read the related discussion at bug#41905.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
:bug#70212
; Package emacs
.
Full text available.Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org
.
Full text available.Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org
.
Full text available.Received: (at 70212) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Apr 2024 12:27:50 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Apr 05 08:27:50 2024 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35355 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1rsife-0005Aa-7O for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 05 Apr 2024 08:27:50 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:47374) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1rsifc-0005AO-CS for 70212 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 05 Apr 2024 08:27:48 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1rsifO-0005KH-4M; Fri, 05 Apr 2024 08:27:34 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=pjNrrA9R0M5GGV/fv0PREgC2dgcJrrSe30kZm8GVV5A=; b=XvTzpyJgFqi0qzuY7IWI RZPixUJHJ24u6xzB+FE5YrYXehKGpxooBoHeXO2CB2PX94ujLHLgL41NzK+ursfw55Na5wJbX3ZxP +44a8tq/R6+hoHb+hobPU4mP0WxRNAVZNU7gXSU+IKwijJt/sbUKn8PMx1inSfiW3PCuPI0bOHRcB rgjWvih3dY3mWtzCd/wqwajYecj5Il9YVQIazcY0F9Vj0KblZEAvcNCc/XghTY8YE8gfC4eS9N7q8 yt1JcpqiWdN+uZApsQ+7QoNKijixWKRFZIATDwU0+vpiawmQpRWg+QMp50P6Th+xZO+g64uppy+Nh 2521S29tRnJnZw==; Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2024 15:27:22 +0300 Message-Id: <86il0w5711.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Dan Jacobson <jidanni@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <87jzlcmc3n.5.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Dan Jacobson on Fri, 05 Apr 2024 16:45:48 +0800) Subject: Re: bug#70212: Customize Group buffer: add button to reveal underlying variable names References: <87jzlcmc3n.5.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 70212 Cc: 70212 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) tags 70212 notabug close 70212 thanks > From: Dan Jacobson <jidanni@HIDDEN> > Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2024 16:45:48 +0800 > > The user is in buffer > *Customize Group: Compilation* > > The user sees: > Show Value Compilation Max Output Line Length > Output lines that are longer than this value will be hidden. Hide > If nil, don’t hide anything. > > Try as the user might, there is no way for him to discover the > underlying variable there in the interface. That's not how users are supposed to find out variable names. The Customize user interface is for users who don't need to know the Lisp name of a variable. You can customize this (and any other) variable without knowing its Lisp name; forf all practical purposes its name is "Compilation Max Output Line Length", which is written right there. Which is why this UI doesn't mention the Lisp names of variables: they might confuse users who don't know Lisp. > All he can do is do C-h v and start guessing its name. Finally arriving at The most efficient way of finding out the Lisp name of the variable is to type: M-x apropos-variable RET Compilation Max Output Line Length RET So I'm closing this bug as it is not a bug at all: Emacs behaves as intended here.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
:bug#70212
; Package emacs
.
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Fri, 05 Apr 2024 08:45:52 +0000 Received: from jidanni.org (114-41-22-59.dynamic-ip.hinet.net [114.41.22.59]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jidanni@HIDDEN) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a302.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4V9sWz4Z4Vz6G for <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>; Fri, 5 Apr 2024 01:45:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=jidanni.org; s=dreamhost; t=1712306751; bh=UZSIJSFba6cFqN5HxBykhSZgxRVmZDrtn8XXNeQiVZU=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding; b=xrG7p5btU9ZxOyyq1ge59eSPx7BTCqqdxHX8Pb1q7L59C7KH3nuohH4WsOQdTzRWA IqoEvt23zLdsmFL1WLya4FKo3FXr5Z2SOvpX8YHnkPDWzi/aU0uzRHyfPVLY8dczIA 9J6ZbQ8v+azFuRXLh9MdCFcgJoDDyQLeSsH+xgLQBQJeTeKX99v6nKfeArjmt/YH0L sFvCd0uCyh7s1rGJmEu9f+JoMHu7diFYduAoz+Xx47WS89w2KYkPdBProxfPIySCgz iSdcZtTUv42M9d8ms0Nm8CV4sfEZFNiI8C6J9N4peLyFfYgYDl7mvQZ6aELP7A/TlY X72bQTPC+/FYw== From: Dan Jacobson <jidanni@HIDDEN> To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN Subject: Customize Group buffer: add button to reveal underlying variable names Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2024 16:45:48 +0800 Message-ID: <87jzlcmc3n.5.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received-SPF: pass client-ip=23.83.218.253; envelope-from=jidanni@HIDDEN; helo=iguana.tulip.relay.mailchannels.net X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) The user is in buffer *Customize Group: Compilation* The user sees: Show Value Compilation Max Output Line Length Output lines that are longer than this value will be hidden. Hide If nil, don’t hide anything. Try as the user might, there is no way for him to discover the underlying variable there in the interface. All he can do is do C-h v and start guessing its name. Finally arriving at (describe-variable 'compilation-max-output-line-length)
Dan Jacobson <jidanni@HIDDEN>
:bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
.
Full text available.bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
:bug#70212
; Package emacs
.
Full text available.
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