GNU bug report logs - #70212
Customize Group buffer: add button to reveal underlying variable names

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Package: emacs; Reported by: Dan Jacobson <jidanni@HIDDEN>; Keywords: notabug; Done: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>; Maintainer for emacs is bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.

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From: Howard Melman <hmelman@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#70212: Customize Group buffer: add button to reveal
 underlying variable names
Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2024 12:27:46 -0400
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References: <87jzlcmc3n.5.fsf@HIDDEN>
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 Content preview:  Dan Jacobson writes: > The user is in buffer > *Customize
 Group: Compilation* > > The user sees: > Show Value Compilation Max Output
 Line Length > Output lines that are longer than this value will be hidden.
 Hide > If nil [...] 
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Dan Jacobson <jidanni@HIDDEN> writes:

> The user is in buffer
> *Customize Group: Compilation*
>
> The user sees:
> Show Value Compilation Max Output Line Length
>    Output lines that are longer than this value will be hidden. Hide
>    If nil, don’t hide anything.
>
> Try as the user might, there is no way for him to discover the
> underlying variable there in the interface.

The user could click the State button and select "Show Saved
Lisp Expression" which will also convert values such as shown
in that group for the "Compilation Scroll Output" option.

-- 

Howard





Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#70212; Package emacs. Full text available.

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From: Dan Jacobson <jidanni@HIDDEN>
To: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: [External] : bug#70212: Customize Group buffer: add button to
 reveal underlying variable names
References: <87jzlcmc3n.5.fsf@HIDDEN> <86le5r7prl.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <87h6gfpxhe.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <SJ0PR10MB5488815D501A6273E8E01373F3032@HIDDEN>
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Cc: "70212 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" <70212 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>,
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 =?utf-8?Q?K=C3=A9vin?= Le Gouguec <kevin.legouguec@HIDDEN>
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All I'm saying is the user is just inches from being able to find a
treasure trove of more information on the thing he is looking at
if only there was a button, sure, fitted with a safety cap perhaps,
to do it. Fine, label it as the gory details button.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#70212; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 70212 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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 Linkov <juri@HIDDEN>
Subject: RE: [External] : bug#70212: Customize Group buffer: add button to
 reveal underlying variable names
Thread-Topic: [External] : bug#70212: Customize Group buffer: add button to
 reveal underlying variable names
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Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#70212; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 70212 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: =?utf-8?Q?K=C3=A9vin_Le_Gouguec?= <kevin.legouguec@HIDDEN>
To: Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#70212: Customize Group buffer: add button to reveal
 underlying variable names
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Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN> writes:

>> The user is in buffer
>> *Customize Group: Compilation*
>>
>> The user sees:
>> Show Value Compilation Max Output Line Length
>>    Output lines that are longer than this value will be hidden. Hide
>>    If nil, don=E2=80=99t hide anything.
>>
>> Try as the user might, there is no way for him to discover the
>> underlying variable there in the interface.
>
> You can read the related discussion at bug#41905.

And bug#400 (referenced in bug#41905).

FWIW I agree making Custom > Help navigation more seamless would be
neat; one may first be interested in browsing options via Customize's
group hierarchies, then jump to a Help buffer to seek details about a
specific variables (:version, estimated introductory release) or use
help-mode-map commands (e.g. 'i', 's').




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#70212; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 70212 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, Dan Jacobson <jidanni@HIDDEN>
Subject: RE: [External] : bug#70212: Customize Group buffer: add button to
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Thread-Topic: [External] : bug#70212: Customize Group buffer: add button to
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Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2024 16:32:48 +0000
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Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#70212; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 70212 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: Juri Linkov <juri@HIDDEN>
To: Dan Jacobson <jidanni@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#70212: Customize Group buffer: add button to reveal
 underlying variable names
In-Reply-To: <87jzlcmc3n.5.fsf@HIDDEN> (Dan Jacobson's message of "Fri,
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Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2024 19:13:10 +0300
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> The user is in buffer
> *Customize Group: Compilation*
>
> The user sees:
> Show Value Compilation Max Output Line Length
>    Output lines that are longer than this value will be hidden. Hide
>    If nil, don’t hide anything.
>
> Try as the user might, there is no way for him to discover the
> underlying variable there in the interface.

You can read the related discussion at bug#41905.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#70212; Package emacs. Full text available.
bug closed, send any further explanations to 70212 <at> debbugs.gnu.org and Dan Jacobson <jidanni@HIDDEN> Request was from Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org. Full text available.
Added tag(s) notabug. Request was from Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org. Full text available.

Message received at 70212 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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tags 70212 notabug
close 70212
thanks

> From: Dan Jacobson <jidanni@HIDDEN>
> Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2024 16:45:48 +0800
> 
> The user is in buffer
> *Customize Group: Compilation* 
> 
> The user sees:
> Show Value Compilation Max Output Line Length 
>    Output lines that are longer than this value will be hidden. Hide
>    If nil, don’t hide anything.
> 
> Try as the user might, there is no way for him to discover the
> underlying variable there in the interface.

That's not how users are supposed to find out variable names.  The
Customize user interface is for users who don't need to know the Lisp
name of a variable.  You can customize this (and any other) variable
without knowing its Lisp name; forf all practical purposes its name is
"Compilation Max Output Line Length", which is written right there.
Which is why this UI doesn't mention the Lisp names of variables: they
might confuse users who don't know Lisp.

> All he can do is do C-h v and start guessing its name. Finally arriving at

The most efficient way of finding out the Lisp name of the variable is
to type:

  M-x apropos-variable RET Compilation Max Output Line Length RET

So I'm closing this bug as it is not a bug at all: Emacs behaves as
intended here.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#70212; Package emacs. Full text available.

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From: Dan Jacobson <jidanni@HIDDEN>
To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
Subject: Customize Group buffer: add button to reveal underlying variable names
Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2024 16:45:48 +0800
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The user is in buffer
*Customize Group: Compilation* 

The user sees:
Show Value Compilation Max Output Line Length 
   Output lines that are longer than this value will be hidden. Hide
   If nil, don’t hide anything.

Try as the user might, there is no way for him to discover the
underlying variable there in the interface.

All he can do is do C-h v and start guessing its name. Finally arriving at

(describe-variable 'compilation-max-output-line-length)





Acknowledgement sent to Dan Jacobson <jidanni@HIDDEN>:
New bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN. Full text available.
Report forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#70212; Package emacs. Full text available.
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