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[73.93.224.2]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 41be03b00d2f7-aee6868952asm221985a12.18.2025.02.25.14.15.21 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 25 Feb 2025 14:15:22 -0800 (PST) From: Collin Funk <collin.funk1@HIDDEN> To: Karl Berry <karl@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: [bug#71672] [PATCH] python: Prefer python3 over python In-Reply-To: <202502252206.51PM6gYW1223903@HIDDEN> References: <202502252206.51PM6gYW1223903@HIDDEN> Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2025 14:15:20 -0800 Message-ID: <87h64hacxz.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 71672 Cc: zack@HIDDEN, 71672 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) Hi Karl, Karl Berry <karl@HIDDEN> writes: > I'm hoping to put out the first pretest tomorrow and 1.18 not long > after. So clearly this Python stuff needs to wait for another release. Thanks for mentioning this again. That plan sounds fine. Python packages seem to have their own packaging stuff that works well so there is no rush. However, I still think these would be nice for projects that might use python scripts, etc. I had a look at implementing them yesterday, but my m4 talent is lacking. :) Collin
automake-patches@HIDDEN:bug#71672; Package automake-patches.
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From: Karl Berry <karl@HIDDEN>
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Subject: Re: [bug#71672] [PATCH] python: Prefer python3 over python
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What does your schedule look like for the next Automake release?
I'm hoping to put out the first pretest tomorrow and 1.18 not long
after. So clearly this Python stuff needs to wait for another release.
Thanks for the quick reply. -k
automake-patches@HIDDEN:bug#71672; Package automake-patches.
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Tue, 25 Feb 2025 10:18:21 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2025 10:18:00 -0500 From: "Zack Weinberg" <zack@HIDDEN> To: "Karl Berry" <karl@HIDDEN> Message-Id: <936eec5f-f662-4958-bc6f-321605038c2d@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <202502241648.51OGmTUG1099718@HIDDEN> References: <8a243d12-4f25-4912-aa1f-b6f8c3ff4d2d@HIDDEN> <202502241648.51OGmTUG1099718@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: [bug#71672] [PATCH] python: Prefer python3 over python Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 71672 Cc: 71672 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Collin Funk <collin.funk1@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On Mon, Feb 24, 2025, at 11:48 AM, Karl Berry wrote: > Returning to this issue of preferring python3, from last year: > > https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=71672 > > Add these three macros to Autoconf proper: ..._PYTHON_... > > Have they been added? They have not. Regrettably, I have not had any time at all for Autoconf work recently. What does your schedule look like for the next Automake release? This specific thing is probably only a weekend's worth of work, so I might be able to scare up the time for it. However, I don't think I can do all the rest of the work involved in putting out an Autoconf release anytime in the near future. zw
automake-patches@HIDDEN:bug#71672; Package automake-patches.
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Tue, 25 Feb 2025 10:15:15 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2025 10:14:55 -0500 From: "Zack Weinberg" <zack@HIDDEN> To: "Jacob Bachmeyer" <jcb62281@HIDDEN>, "Karl Berry" <karl@HIDDEN> Message-Id: <aa824d1b-532d-4c94-9ddc-9755417812be@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <f09f8583-249a-4a5b-ace8-c05463d5c98c@HIDDEN> References: <8a243d12-4f25-4912-aa1f-b6f8c3ff4d2d@HIDDEN> <202502241648.51OGmTUG1099718@HIDDEN> <f09f8583-249a-4a5b-ace8-c05463d5c98c@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: [bug#71672] [PATCH] python: Prefer python3 over python Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 71672 Cc: 71672 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Collin Funk <collin.funk1@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On Mon, Feb 24, 2025, at 11:03 PM, Jacob Bachmeyer wrote: > On 2/24/25 10:48, Karl Berry wrote: >> [...] >> >> To be clear, the above suggested factoring-out won't (intentionally) >> affect the behavior of AM_PATH_PYTHON, right? It will still look for >> "python" first, and still do all the stuff it does. I want Automake >> to stay as backward-compatible as possible. > > The problem is that Python did *not* stay backward-compatible and in > the worst way:=C2=A0 running a program written for Python2 on a Python3 > interpreter can silently corrupt data if I understand correctly. Yes. It takes some doing, but I *have* seen people write Python2 programs with this characteristic without knowing it. > At minimum, a request for an unversioned python should raise a warning > (if not an error:=C2=A0 "specify Python2 or Python3") and AM_PATH_PYTH= ON > should probably be deprecated in favor of separate AM_PATH_PYTHON2 and > AM_PATH_PYTHON3. Agreed. I would *like* to go a step farther and have AM_PATH_PYTHON* bomb out if it detects that "python" on the PATH runs Python3, but that would put us in direct conflict with a bunch of Linux distributions so we probably shouldn't actually do that. > I am insufficiently familiar with Python to say if we should have > finer granularity than "Python3" and I am uncertain how compatible the > different releases of Python3 actually are. With all relatively recent Python 3 releases, you can have reasonably high confidence that a program written against 3.x, that doesn't use thi= rd- party Python libraries, will work correctly with 3.y where y > x. The only exception I know about is that the core Python devs recently decided to start removing "old, unmaintained" modules from the standard library. Also, I'm not sure how far back "relatively recent" extends. The reverse is not true; a program written for 3.x is very likely to not work at all with 3.z where z < x. There have been a *lot* of shiny new features added to the language in each 3.x release. The compatibility story is much worse when third-party libraries are inv= olved, but that's not AM_PATH_PYTHON's problem. zw
automake-patches@HIDDEN:bug#71672; Package automake-patches.
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It will still look for > "python" first, and still do all the stuff it does. I want Automake to > stay as backward-compatible as possible. The problem is that Python did *not* stay backward-compatible and in the worst way: running a program written for Python2 on a Python3 interpreter can silently corrupt data if I understand correctly. At minimum, a request for an unversioned python should raise a warning (if not an error: "specify Python2 or Python3") and AM_PATH_PYTHON should probably be deprecated in favor of separate AM_PATH_PYTHON2 and AM_PATH_PYTHON3. I am insufficiently familiar with Python to say if we should have finer granularity than "Python3" and I am uncertain how compatible the different releases of Python3 actually are. -- Jacob
automake-patches@HIDDEN:bug#71672; Package automake-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 71672) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Feb 2025 23:47:15 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Feb 24 18:47:15 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43456 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tmiAM-0006hX-LV for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Feb 2025 18:47:15 -0500 Received: from frenzy.freefriends.org ([198.99.81.75]:46060 helo=freefriends.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <karl@HIDDEN>) id 1tmiAC-0006h1-8K; Mon, 24 Feb 2025 18:47:04 -0500 X-Envelope-From: karl@HIDDEN Received: from freefriends.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefriends.org (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPS id 51ONkVUa1124394 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Mon, 24 Feb 2025 16:46:31 -0700 Received: (from apache@localhost) by freefriends.org (8.16.1/8.14.7/Submit) id 51ONkUtO1124393; Mon, 24 Feb 2025 16:46:30 -0700 Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2025 16:46:30 -0700 Message-Id: <202502242346.51ONkUtO1124393@HIDDEN> From: Karl Berry <karl@HIDDEN> To: praiskup@HIDDEN Subject: Re: bug#17811: RFE: build against multiple python stacks In-Reply-To: <1418345.G04AnGCbNd@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 71672 Cc: 17811 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, 71672 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Hi Pavel - back in 2014 (!), you suggested supporting python2 and python3 simultaneously: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=17811 Essentially by defining a new "python3" primary to sit alongside "python". Agreed that this is desirable in general. It's now being discussed in https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=71672 via a somewhat different approach. I'd worry about making python3 a new primary, since 3 vs. 2 is not the only distinction needed, as has been discussed. I'm closing this one to reduce duplication in the bugdb, but feel free to reply on 71762 or open a new issue if desired. --thanks, karl.
automake-patches@HIDDEN:bug#71672; Package automake-patches.
Full text available.Karl Berry <karl@HIDDEN>
to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org.
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Subject: Re: [bug#71672] [PATCH] python: Prefer python3 over python
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Returning to this issue of preferring python3, from last year:
https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=71672
Add these three macros to Autoconf proper:
..._PYTHON_...
Have they been added?
I think that should disentangle things reasonably well, but we should
definitely do this early rather than late in an automake release cycle,
I hope to put out the next automake pretest->release very soon. So I
guess whatever happens
and seek out feedback from existing users of AM_PATH_PYTHON.
To be clear, the above suggested factoring-out won't (intentionally)
affect the behavior of AM_PATH_PYTHON, right? It will still look for
"python" first, and still do all the stuff it does. I want Automake to
stay as backward-compatible as possible. --thanks, karl.
automake-patches@HIDDEN:bug#71672; Package automake-patches.
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Subject: Re: [bug#71672] [PATCH] python: Prefer python3 over python
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zw> Add these three macros to Autoconf proper:
...
Automake's python.m4 should also define these if they are not
already defined. Then, we split AM_PATH_PYTHON ...
Thanks Zack. It all sounds good to me.
definitely do this early rather than late in an automake release
cycle, and seek out feedback from existing users of AM_PATH_PYTHON.
What say you?
I say +1 :).
cf> I like this idea and am happy to help after the upcoming release.
Thanks Collin.
Maybe something like:
AM_PYTHON_SETUP([PYTHON-EXECUTABLE])
Sounds fine to me, at first blush.
My thought would be to add this stuff asap after the 1.17 release and
put out a 1.16.0.90 pretest purely for the purpose of "seeking
feedback", as you say, so users can give it a try without having other
unrelated changes. (I hope four-part version numbers don't cause problems.)
(Maybe along with Bruno's timestamp-fixing patch, again for feedback
purposes.)
So ... if either of you have time to work on implementing this, so it
can be pushed when ready, that would be great.
(Although in theory several branches are maintained in the automake repo
for purposes like this, in practice nothing but master has been used for
X years, and I myself have no time or interest in resurrecting others.)
Thanks! -k
automake-patches@HIDDEN:bug#71672; Package automake-patches.
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Subject: Re: [bug#71672] [PATCH] python: Prefer python3 over python
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Zack Weinberg wrote:
> Automake's python.m4 should also define these if they are not already defined.
> Then, we split AM_PATH_PYTHON into the part that sets PYTHON, which is implemented
> in terms of the above macros (but still looks for both 2 and 3) and the part that
> does all the rest of it. People who want a slightly more efficient v3-only configure
> script can use AC_PATH_PYTHON3 + whatever the name of the new "all the rest of it"
> macro is.
>
> I think that should disentangle things reasonably well, but we should definitely
> do this early rather than late in an automake release cycle, and seek out feedback
> from existing users of AM_PATH_PYTHON. What say you?
I like this idea and am happy to help after the upcoming release.
Maybe something like:
AM_PYTHON_SETUP([PYTHON-EXECUTABLE])
Which does all the extra $(pyexecdir), $(pkgpyexecdir), etc. given the
python executable. It should be pretty simple to move all the code
from AM_PATH_PYTHON to that separate macro since it should run on all
supported versions of Python (2 and 3).
Collin
automake-patches@HIDDEN:bug#71672; Package automake-patches.
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Sat, 22 Jun 2024 22:11:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.11.0-alpha0-522-ga39cca1d5-fm-20240610.002-ga39cca1d MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <9306cfc3-94c0-4ec0-8a86-3e7e03fb3a14@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <202406222110.45MLAN4t120506@HIDDEN> References: <8a243d12-4f25-4912-aa1f-b6f8c3ff4d2d@HIDDEN> <202406222110.45MLAN4t120506@HIDDEN> Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2024 02:11:29 +0000 From: "Zack Weinberg" <zack@HIDDEN> To: "Karl Berry" <karl@HIDDEN>, collin.funk1@HIDDEN Subject: Re: [bug#71672] [PATCH] python: Prefer python3 over python Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 71672 Cc: 71672 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Here's what I think might be useful: Add these three macros to Autoconf proper: # AC_PYTHON_VERSION_RANGE_IFELSE([PROG], [MIN-VERSION], [MAX-VERSION = next-major], # [ACTION-IF-TRUE], [ACTION-IF-FALSE]) # --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- # Run ACTION-IF-TRUE if the Python interpreter PROG has version >= MIN-VERSION # and < MAX_VERSION. If MAX_VERSION is empty, it defaults to the next # major version after MIN-VERSION (e.g. 2.7 -> 3, 3.6 -> 4). # Run ACTION-IF-FALSE otherwise. # AC_PATH_PYTHON2([MINIMUM-VERSION], [VALUE-IF-NOT-FOUND]) # -------------------------------------------------------- # Find a Python 2 interpreter. If MINIMUM-VERSION is not empty, it must be at # least that version. If one is found, set the substitution variable PYTHON2 # to the full pathname of the selected interpreter. Otherwise set PYTHON2 to # VALUE-IF-NOT-FOUND. Does nothing else; in particular, does not do any of the # additional checks and substitutions done by AM_PATH_PYTHON. This one will try bare 'python'. # AC_PATH_PYTHON3([MINIMUM-VERSION], [VALUE-IF-NOT-FOUND]) # -------------------------------------------------------- # Find a Python 3 interpreter. If MINIMUM-VERSION is not empty, it must be at # least that version. If one is found, set the substitution variable PYTHON3 # to the full pathname of the selected interpreter. Otherwise set PYTHON3 to # VALUE-IF-NOT-FOUND. Does nothing else; in particular, does not do any of the # additional checks and substitutions done by AM_PATH_PYTHON. This one will not. Automake's python.m4 should also define these if they are not already defined. Then, we split AM_PATH_PYTHON into the part that sets PYTHON, which is implemented in terms of the above macros (but still looks for both 2 and 3) and the part that does all the rest of it. People who want a slightly more efficient v3-only configure script can use AC_PATH_PYTHON3 + whatever the name of the new "all the rest of it" macro is. I think that should disentangle things reasonably well, but we should definitely do this early rather than late in an automake release cycle, and seek out feedback from existing users of AM_PATH_PYTHON. What say you? zw
automake-patches@HIDDEN:bug#71672; Package automake-patches.
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Or maybe AM_PYTHON3_PATH which requires Python3 so that the
interface of the original macro isn't changed.
My idea for having a separate options command was for the future: who
knows what incompatibilities python will create in the future. Other
options besides p3 vs p2 might be needed. Indeed, could already be
needed; I know of a couple packages that require 3.8 or later. -k
automake-patches@HIDDEN:bug#71672; Package automake-patches.
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[73.189.213.139]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 98e67ed59e1d1-2c819a623a3sm2290262a91.5.2024.06.21.18.57.29 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 21 Jun 2024 18:57:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <e39bbe2a-eaed-4f6a-b535-00752e51a69b@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2024 18:57:28 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [bug#71672] [PATCH] python: Prefer python3 over python To: Karl Berry <karl@HIDDEN> References: <202406212212.45LMCYh0045068@HIDDEN> Content-Language: en-US From: Collin Funk <collin.funk1@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <202406212212.45LMCYh0045068@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 71672 Cc: zack@HIDDEN, 71672 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) Hi Karl, Karl Berry wrote: > Yes ... but I feel strongly that we should try very hard not to break > existing configure setups. Reasonable goal. > It occurs to me that we could allow maintainers to specify p3-searching > options in their configure.ac, like > > AM_PYTHON_OPTS(python3-check-first python-check-omit) > > (Or additional args to AM_PATH_PYTHON, whatever.) > > That wouldn't have any compatibility issues, and would allow maintainers > to control what gets looked for, for packages that need to force python3. > (Other options could force looking for p2 first.) > > Would that make sense? Yes, I think that idea would work. Or maybe AM_PYTHON3_PATH which requires Python3 so that the interface of the original macro isn't changed. Do you have any ideas/opinions Zach? I don't ever use Python 2 so maybe my ideas for the interface are poor. Collin
automake-patches@HIDDEN:bug#71672; Package automake-patches.
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From: Karl Berry <karl@HIDDEN>
To: collin.funk1@HIDDEN
Subject: Re: [bug#71672] [PATCH] python: Prefer python3 over python
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I thought the intention was to prioritize python 3.X which
would cause problems using "python" first.
Yes ... but I feel strongly that we should try very hard not to break
existing configure setups.
It occurs to me that we could allow maintainers to specify p3-searching
options in their configure.ac, like
AM_PYTHON_OPTS(python3-check-first python-check-omit)
(Or additional args to AM_PATH_PYTHON, whatever.)
That wouldn't have any compatibility issues, and would allow maintainers
to control what gets looked for, for packages that need to force python3.
(Other options could force looking for p2 first.)
Would that make sense? --thanks, karl.
automake-patches@HIDDEN:bug#71672; Package automake-patches.
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automake-patches@HIDDEN:bug#71672; Package automake-patches.
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From: Karl Berry <karl@HIDDEN>
To: zack@HIDDEN
Subject: Re: [bug#71672] [PATCH] python: Prefer python3 over python
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Collin, Zack -
> Shouldn't AM_PATH_PYTHON check for the python3 command before python?
Yes it should.
That seems like a huge change to make. I understand the reasoning, given
the world of Python, but the goal of "don't break existing projects"
argues against it.
Note that PEP 394 is dangerously incorrect on one point: a system
where /usr/bin/python and/or the bare 'python' command invoke
Python3 is a misconfigured system
Nevertheless, that is the reality on Red Hat(-derived) 9 systems.
I don't know about any others.
a huge volume of Python 2-only scripts out there in the wild
Right.
assuming people who use AM_PATH_PYTHON with current versions of
Automake *want* the Python 3 interpreter, for the most part
That feels like an awfully big assumption to me. Ever since its inception,
Automake has looked for "python" first. We will surely be breaking many
existing projects if we change that default -- all the ones that are
still using Python 2, for starters.
Python created this insoluble problem. As far as I can see, we can't fix
it. People will just have to set PYTHON if they need to a force a
version different from the system, seems to me.
I can imagine preferring "python3" to "python" in the future, but this
seems like too big of a change to make at the very end (I hope) of the
pretest cycle. I think it would be better to make it well in advance of
the next release and try to garner feedback on the inevitable problems
that will result. --thanks, karl.
automake-patches@HIDDEN:bug#71672; Package automake-patches.
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Thu, 20 Jun 2024 09:33:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.11.0-alpha0-522-ga39cca1d5-fm-20240610.002-ga39cca1d MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <9253a3a6-43c4-4148-bc9e-8426ab93068c@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <8a243d12-4f25-4912-aa1f-b6f8c3ff4d2d@HIDDEN> References: <8a243d12-4f25-4912-aa1f-b6f8c3ff4d2d@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2024 09:33:14 -0400 From: "Zack Weinberg" <zack@HIDDEN> To: "Collin Funk" <collin.funk1@HIDDEN>, 71672 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: [bug#71672] [PATCH] python: Prefer python3 over python Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 71672 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On Thu, Jun 20, 2024, at 5:50 AM, Collin Funk wrote: > Shouldn't AM_PATH_PYTHON check for the python3 command before python? Yes it should. > The full recommendation of how these should be setup is in PEP 394 Note that PEP 394 is dangerously incorrect on one point: a system where /usr/bin/python and/or the bare 'python' command invoke Python 3 is a misconfigured system, because there's -- yes, even now -- a huge volume of Python 2-only scripts out there in the wild that will malfunction if run under a Python 3 interpreter. In the worst case "malfunction" means "cause silent data corruption." This is mostly not Automake's problem, but -- assuming people who use AM_PATH_PYTHON with current versions of Automake *want* the Python 3 interpreter, for the most part -- it might be an argument for *not* probing unsuffixed 'python', only 'python3' and 'python3.*'. zw
automake-patches@HIDDEN:bug#71672; Package automake-patches.
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Subject: [PATCH] python: Prefer python3 over python
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Hi,
Shouldn't AM_PATH_PYTHON check for the python3 command before python?
The full recommendation of how these should be setup is in PEP 394
[1].
On modern systems I don't think it should matter. On Fedora 40:
$ command -v python
/usr/bin/python
$ command -v python3
/usr/bin/python3
$ python --version
Python 3.12.3
$ python3 --version
Python 3.12.3
The difference mostly exists on older machines. On CentOS 7.9 for
example:
$ command -v python
/usr/bin/python
$ command -v python3
/usr/bin/python3
$ python --version
Python 2.7.5
$ python3 --version
Python 3.6.8
I've attached a proposed path. I don't see a situation where a
python3.* is installed without a python3 link. Therefore checking for
python3 and fallingback on python seems reasonable to me.
Collin
[1] https://peps.python.org/pep-0394/
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--------------wfnwWj0TZnwsi4S8dTl4ZkBJ--
Collin Funk <collin.funk1@HIDDEN>:automake-patches@HIDDEN.
Full text available.automake-patches@HIDDEN:bug#71672; Package automake-patches.
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