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[73.93.224.2]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 41be03b00d2f7-aee6868952asm221985a12.18.2025.02.25.14.15.21 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 25 Feb 2025 14:15:22 -0800 (PST) From: Collin Funk <collin.funk1@HIDDEN> To: Karl Berry <karl@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: [bug#71672] [PATCH] python: Prefer python3 over python In-Reply-To: <202502252206.51PM6gYW1223903@HIDDEN> References: <202502252206.51PM6gYW1223903@HIDDEN> Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2025 14:15:20 -0800 Message-ID: <87h64hacxz.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 71672 Cc: zack@HIDDEN, 71672 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) Hi Karl, Karl Berry <karl@HIDDEN> writes: > I'm hoping to put out the first pretest tomorrow and 1.18 not long > after. So clearly this Python stuff needs to wait for another release. Thanks for mentioning this again. That plan sounds fine. Python packages seem to have their own packaging stuff that works well so there is no rush. However, I still think these would be nice for projects that might use python scripts, etc. I had a look at implementing them yesterday, but my m4 talent is lacking. :) Collin
automake-patches@HIDDEN
:bug#71672
; Package automake-patches
.
Full text available.Received: (at 71672) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Feb 2025 22:07:20 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Feb 25 17:07:20 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:48767 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tn35E-0007k1-6N for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Feb 2025 17:07:20 -0500 Received: from frenzy.freefriends.org ([198.99.81.75]:50184 helo=freefriends.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <karl@HIDDEN>) id 1tn35B-0007jn-Fv for 71672 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Feb 2025 17:07:18 -0500 X-Envelope-From: karl@HIDDEN Received: from freefriends.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefriends.org (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPS id 51PM6gKs1223904 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 25 Feb 2025 15:06:42 -0700 Received: (from apache@localhost) by freefriends.org (8.16.1/8.14.7/Submit) id 51PM6gYW1223903; Tue, 25 Feb 2025 15:06:42 -0700 Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2025 15:06:42 -0700 Message-Id: <202502252206.51PM6gYW1223903@HIDDEN> From: Karl Berry <karl@HIDDEN> To: zack@HIDDEN Subject: Re: [bug#71672] [PATCH] python: Prefer python3 over python In-Reply-To: <936eec5f-f662-4958-bc6f-321605038c2d@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 71672 Cc: 71672 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, collin.funk1@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) What does your schedule look like for the next Automake release? I'm hoping to put out the first pretest tomorrow and 1.18 not long after. So clearly this Python stuff needs to wait for another release. Thanks for the quick reply. -k
automake-patches@HIDDEN
:bug#71672
; Package automake-patches
.
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Tue, 25 Feb 2025 10:18:21 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2025 10:18:00 -0500 From: "Zack Weinberg" <zack@HIDDEN> To: "Karl Berry" <karl@HIDDEN> Message-Id: <936eec5f-f662-4958-bc6f-321605038c2d@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <202502241648.51OGmTUG1099718@HIDDEN> References: <8a243d12-4f25-4912-aa1f-b6f8c3ff4d2d@HIDDEN> <202502241648.51OGmTUG1099718@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: [bug#71672] [PATCH] python: Prefer python3 over python Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 71672 Cc: 71672 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Collin Funk <collin.funk1@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On Mon, Feb 24, 2025, at 11:48 AM, Karl Berry wrote: > Returning to this issue of preferring python3, from last year: > > https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=71672 > > Add these three macros to Autoconf proper: ..._PYTHON_... > > Have they been added? They have not. Regrettably, I have not had any time at all for Autoconf work recently. What does your schedule look like for the next Automake release? This specific thing is probably only a weekend's worth of work, so I might be able to scare up the time for it. However, I don't think I can do all the rest of the work involved in putting out an Autoconf release anytime in the near future. zw
automake-patches@HIDDEN
:bug#71672
; Package automake-patches
.
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Tue, 25 Feb 2025 10:15:15 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2025 10:14:55 -0500 From: "Zack Weinberg" <zack@HIDDEN> To: "Jacob Bachmeyer" <jcb62281@HIDDEN>, "Karl Berry" <karl@HIDDEN> Message-Id: <aa824d1b-532d-4c94-9ddc-9755417812be@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <f09f8583-249a-4a5b-ace8-c05463d5c98c@HIDDEN> References: <8a243d12-4f25-4912-aa1f-b6f8c3ff4d2d@HIDDEN> <202502241648.51OGmTUG1099718@HIDDEN> <f09f8583-249a-4a5b-ace8-c05463d5c98c@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: [bug#71672] [PATCH] python: Prefer python3 over python Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 71672 Cc: 71672 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Collin Funk <collin.funk1@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On Mon, Feb 24, 2025, at 11:03 PM, Jacob Bachmeyer wrote: > On 2/24/25 10:48, Karl Berry wrote: >> [...] >> >> To be clear, the above suggested factoring-out won't (intentionally) >> affect the behavior of AM_PATH_PYTHON, right? It will still look for >> "python" first, and still do all the stuff it does. I want Automake >> to stay as backward-compatible as possible. > > The problem is that Python did *not* stay backward-compatible and in > the worst way:=C2=A0 running a program written for Python2 on a Python3 > interpreter can silently corrupt data if I understand correctly. Yes. It takes some doing, but I *have* seen people write Python2 programs with this characteristic without knowing it. > At minimum, a request for an unversioned python should raise a warning > (if not an error:=C2=A0 "specify Python2 or Python3") and AM_PATH_PYTH= ON > should probably be deprecated in favor of separate AM_PATH_PYTHON2 and > AM_PATH_PYTHON3. Agreed. I would *like* to go a step farther and have AM_PATH_PYTHON* bomb out if it detects that "python" on the PATH runs Python3, but that would put us in direct conflict with a bunch of Linux distributions so we probably shouldn't actually do that. > I am insufficiently familiar with Python to say if we should have > finer granularity than "Python3" and I am uncertain how compatible the > different releases of Python3 actually are. With all relatively recent Python 3 releases, you can have reasonably high confidence that a program written against 3.x, that doesn't use thi= rd- party Python libraries, will work correctly with 3.y where y > x. The only exception I know about is that the core Python devs recently decided to start removing "old, unmaintained" modules from the standard library. Also, I'm not sure how far back "relatively recent" extends. The reverse is not true; a program written for 3.x is very likely to not work at all with 3.z where z < x. There have been a *lot* of shiny new features added to the language in each 3.x release. The compatibility story is much worse when third-party libraries are inv= olved, but that's not AM_PATH_PYTHON's problem. zw
automake-patches@HIDDEN
:bug#71672
; Package automake-patches
.
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It will still look for > "python" first, and still do all the stuff it does. I want Automake to > stay as backward-compatible as possible. The problem is that Python did *not* stay backward-compatible and in the worst way: running a program written for Python2 on a Python3 interpreter can silently corrupt data if I understand correctly. At minimum, a request for an unversioned python should raise a warning (if not an error: "specify Python2 or Python3") and AM_PATH_PYTHON should probably be deprecated in favor of separate AM_PATH_PYTHON2 and AM_PATH_PYTHON3. I am insufficiently familiar with Python to say if we should have finer granularity than "Python3" and I am uncertain how compatible the different releases of Python3 actually are. -- Jacob
automake-patches@HIDDEN
:bug#71672
; Package automake-patches
.
Full text available.Received: (at 71672) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Feb 2025 23:47:15 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Feb 24 18:47:15 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43456 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tmiAM-0006hX-LV for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Feb 2025 18:47:15 -0500 Received: from frenzy.freefriends.org ([198.99.81.75]:46060 helo=freefriends.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <karl@HIDDEN>) id 1tmiAC-0006h1-8K; Mon, 24 Feb 2025 18:47:04 -0500 X-Envelope-From: karl@HIDDEN Received: from freefriends.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefriends.org (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPS id 51ONkVUa1124394 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Mon, 24 Feb 2025 16:46:31 -0700 Received: (from apache@localhost) by freefriends.org (8.16.1/8.14.7/Submit) id 51ONkUtO1124393; Mon, 24 Feb 2025 16:46:30 -0700 Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2025 16:46:30 -0700 Message-Id: <202502242346.51ONkUtO1124393@HIDDEN> From: Karl Berry <karl@HIDDEN> To: praiskup@HIDDEN Subject: Re: bug#17811: RFE: build against multiple python stacks In-Reply-To: <1418345.G04AnGCbNd@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 71672 Cc: 17811 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, 71672 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Hi Pavel - back in 2014 (!), you suggested supporting python2 and python3 simultaneously: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=17811 Essentially by defining a new "python3" primary to sit alongside "python". Agreed that this is desirable in general. It's now being discussed in https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=71672 via a somewhat different approach. I'd worry about making python3 a new primary, since 3 vs. 2 is not the only distinction needed, as has been discussed. I'm closing this one to reduce duplication in the bugdb, but feel free to reply on 71762 or open a new issue if desired. --thanks, karl.
automake-patches@HIDDEN
:bug#71672
; Package automake-patches
.
Full text available.Karl Berry <karl@HIDDEN>
to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org
.
Full text available.Received: (at 71672) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Feb 2025 16:49:06 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Feb 24 11:49:06 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42284 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tmbdh-0002gn-KD for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Feb 2025 11:49:06 -0500 Received: from frenzy.freefriends.org ([198.99.81.75]:43138 helo=freefriends.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <karl@HIDDEN>) id 1tmbde-0002gU-Of for 71672 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Feb 2025 11:49:03 -0500 X-Envelope-From: karl@HIDDEN Received: from freefriends.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefriends.org (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPS id 51OGmUH71099719 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Mon, 24 Feb 2025 09:48:30 -0700 Received: (from apache@localhost) by freefriends.org (8.16.1/8.14.7/Submit) id 51OGmTUG1099718; Mon, 24 Feb 2025 09:48:29 -0700 Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2025 09:48:29 -0700 Message-Id: <202502241648.51OGmTUG1099718@HIDDEN> From: Karl Berry <karl@HIDDEN> To: zack@HIDDEN Subject: Re: [bug#71672] [PATCH] python: Prefer python3 over python In-Reply-To: <9306cfc3-94c0-4ec0-8a86-3e7e03fb3a14@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 71672 Cc: 71672 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, collin.funk1@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Returning to this issue of preferring python3, from last year: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=71672 Add these three macros to Autoconf proper: ..._PYTHON_... Have they been added? I think that should disentangle things reasonably well, but we should definitely do this early rather than late in an automake release cycle, I hope to put out the next automake pretest->release very soon. So I guess whatever happens and seek out feedback from existing users of AM_PATH_PYTHON. To be clear, the above suggested factoring-out won't (intentionally) affect the behavior of AM_PATH_PYTHON, right? It will still look for "python" first, and still do all the stuff it does. I want Automake to stay as backward-compatible as possible. --thanks, karl.
automake-patches@HIDDEN
:bug#71672
; Package automake-patches
.
Full text available.Received: (at 71672) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Jun 2024 21:18:12 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Jun 23 17:18:12 2024 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51478 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1sLUbD-0001g5-VS for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Jun 2024 17:18:12 -0400 Received: from frenzy.freefriends.org ([198.99.81.75]:32818 helo=freefriends.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <karl@HIDDEN>) id 1sLUbB-0001fu-OM for 71672 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Jun 2024 17:18:10 -0400 X-Envelope-From: karl@HIDDEN Received: from freefriends.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefriends.org (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPS id 45NLHwSk194660 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Sun, 23 Jun 2024 15:17:59 -0600 Received: (from apache@localhost) by freefriends.org (8.16.1/8.14.7/Submit) id 45NLHw5I194659; Sun, 23 Jun 2024 15:17:58 -0600 Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2024 15:17:58 -0600 Message-Id: <202406232117.45NLHw5I194659@HIDDEN> From: Karl Berry <karl@HIDDEN> To: zack@HIDDEN Subject: Re: [bug#71672] [PATCH] python: Prefer python3 over python In-Reply-To: <9306cfc3-94c0-4ec0-8a86-3e7e03fb3a14@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 71672 Cc: 71672 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, collin.funk1@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) zw> Add these three macros to Autoconf proper: ... Automake's python.m4 should also define these if they are not already defined. Then, we split AM_PATH_PYTHON ... Thanks Zack. It all sounds good to me. definitely do this early rather than late in an automake release cycle, and seek out feedback from existing users of AM_PATH_PYTHON. What say you? I say +1 :). cf> I like this idea and am happy to help after the upcoming release. Thanks Collin. Maybe something like: AM_PYTHON_SETUP([PYTHON-EXECUTABLE]) Sounds fine to me, at first blush. My thought would be to add this stuff asap after the 1.17 release and put out a 1.16.0.90 pretest purely for the purpose of "seeking feedback", as you say, so users can give it a try without having other unrelated changes. (I hope four-part version numbers don't cause problems.) (Maybe along with Bruno's timestamp-fixing patch, again for feedback purposes.) So ... if either of you have time to work on implementing this, so it can be pushed when ready, that would be great. (Although in theory several branches are maintained in the automake repo for purposes like this, in practice nothing but master has been used for X years, and I myself have no time or interest in resurrecting others.) Thanks! -k
automake-patches@HIDDEN
:bug#71672
; Package automake-patches
.
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[73.189.213.139]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 41be03b00d2f7-718b921af9csm1702821a12.68.2024.06.22.20.27.27 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 22 Jun 2024 20:27:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <9c07ed17-e056-4a41-acf0-d475240ab45c@HIDDEN> Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2024 20:27:25 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [bug#71672] [PATCH] python: Prefer python3 over python To: Zack Weinberg <zack@HIDDEN>, Karl Berry <karl@HIDDEN> References: <8a243d12-4f25-4912-aa1f-b6f8c3ff4d2d@HIDDEN> <202406222110.45MLAN4t120506@HIDDEN> <9306cfc3-94c0-4ec0-8a86-3e7e03fb3a14@HIDDEN> Content-Language: en-US From: Collin Funk <collin.funk1@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <9306cfc3-94c0-4ec0-8a86-3e7e03fb3a14@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 71672 Cc: 71672 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) Zack Weinberg wrote: > Automake's python.m4 should also define these if they are not already defined. > Then, we split AM_PATH_PYTHON into the part that sets PYTHON, which is implemented > in terms of the above macros (but still looks for both 2 and 3) and the part that > does all the rest of it. People who want a slightly more efficient v3-only configure > script can use AC_PATH_PYTHON3 + whatever the name of the new "all the rest of it" > macro is. > > I think that should disentangle things reasonably well, but we should definitely > do this early rather than late in an automake release cycle, and seek out feedback > from existing users of AM_PATH_PYTHON. What say you? I like this idea and am happy to help after the upcoming release. Maybe something like: AM_PYTHON_SETUP([PYTHON-EXECUTABLE]) Which does all the extra $(pyexecdir), $(pkgpyexecdir), etc. given the python executable. It should be pretty simple to move all the code from AM_PATH_PYTHON to that separate macro since it should run on all supported versions of Python (2 and 3). Collin
automake-patches@HIDDEN
:bug#71672
; Package automake-patches
.
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Sat, 22 Jun 2024 22:11:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.11.0-alpha0-522-ga39cca1d5-fm-20240610.002-ga39cca1d MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <9306cfc3-94c0-4ec0-8a86-3e7e03fb3a14@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <202406222110.45MLAN4t120506@HIDDEN> References: <8a243d12-4f25-4912-aa1f-b6f8c3ff4d2d@HIDDEN> <202406222110.45MLAN4t120506@HIDDEN> Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2024 02:11:29 +0000 From: "Zack Weinberg" <zack@HIDDEN> To: "Karl Berry" <karl@HIDDEN>, collin.funk1@HIDDEN Subject: Re: [bug#71672] [PATCH] python: Prefer python3 over python Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 71672 Cc: 71672 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Here's what I think might be useful: Add these three macros to Autoconf proper: # AC_PYTHON_VERSION_RANGE_IFELSE([PROG], [MIN-VERSION], [MAX-VERSION = next-major], # [ACTION-IF-TRUE], [ACTION-IF-FALSE]) # --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- # Run ACTION-IF-TRUE if the Python interpreter PROG has version >= MIN-VERSION # and < MAX_VERSION. If MAX_VERSION is empty, it defaults to the next # major version after MIN-VERSION (e.g. 2.7 -> 3, 3.6 -> 4). # Run ACTION-IF-FALSE otherwise. # AC_PATH_PYTHON2([MINIMUM-VERSION], [VALUE-IF-NOT-FOUND]) # -------------------------------------------------------- # Find a Python 2 interpreter. If MINIMUM-VERSION is not empty, it must be at # least that version. If one is found, set the substitution variable PYTHON2 # to the full pathname of the selected interpreter. Otherwise set PYTHON2 to # VALUE-IF-NOT-FOUND. Does nothing else; in particular, does not do any of the # additional checks and substitutions done by AM_PATH_PYTHON. This one will try bare 'python'. # AC_PATH_PYTHON3([MINIMUM-VERSION], [VALUE-IF-NOT-FOUND]) # -------------------------------------------------------- # Find a Python 3 interpreter. If MINIMUM-VERSION is not empty, it must be at # least that version. If one is found, set the substitution variable PYTHON3 # to the full pathname of the selected interpreter. Otherwise set PYTHON3 to # VALUE-IF-NOT-FOUND. Does nothing else; in particular, does not do any of the # additional checks and substitutions done by AM_PATH_PYTHON. This one will not. Automake's python.m4 should also define these if they are not already defined. Then, we split AM_PATH_PYTHON into the part that sets PYTHON, which is implemented in terms of the above macros (but still looks for both 2 and 3) and the part that does all the rest of it. People who want a slightly more efficient v3-only configure script can use AC_PATH_PYTHON3 + whatever the name of the new "all the rest of it" macro is. I think that should disentangle things reasonably well, but we should definitely do this early rather than late in an automake release cycle, and seek out feedback from existing users of AM_PATH_PYTHON. What say you? zw
automake-patches@HIDDEN
:bug#71672
; Package automake-patches
.
Full text available.Received: (at 71672) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Jun 2024 21:10:36 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Jun 22 17:10:36 2024 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60422 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1sL80K-0004QF-Ft for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 22 Jun 2024 17:10:36 -0400 Received: from frenzy.freefriends.org ([198.99.81.75]:44340 helo=freefriends.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <karl@HIDDEN>) id 1sL80I-0004Q2-Jh for 71672 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 22 Jun 2024 17:10:35 -0400 X-Envelope-From: karl@HIDDEN Received: from freefriends.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefriends.org (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPS id 45MLAO0J120507 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Sat, 22 Jun 2024 15:10:24 -0600 Received: (from apache@localhost) by freefriends.org (8.16.1/8.14.7/Submit) id 45MLAN4t120506; Sat, 22 Jun 2024 15:10:23 -0600 Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2024 15:10:23 -0600 Message-Id: <202406222110.45MLAN4t120506@HIDDEN> From: Karl Berry <karl@HIDDEN> To: collin.funk1@HIDDEN Subject: Re: [bug#71672] [PATCH] python: Prefer python3 over python In-Reply-To: <e39bbe2a-eaed-4f6a-b535-00752e51a69b@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 71672 Cc: zack@HIDDEN, 71672 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Or maybe AM_PYTHON3_PATH which requires Python3 so that the interface of the original macro isn't changed. My idea for having a separate options command was for the future: who knows what incompatibilities python will create in the future. Other options besides p3 vs p2 might be needed. Indeed, could already be needed; I know of a couple packages that require 3.8 or later. -k
automake-patches@HIDDEN
:bug#71672
; Package automake-patches
.
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[73.189.213.139]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 98e67ed59e1d1-2c819a623a3sm2290262a91.5.2024.06.21.18.57.29 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 21 Jun 2024 18:57:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <e39bbe2a-eaed-4f6a-b535-00752e51a69b@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2024 18:57:28 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [bug#71672] [PATCH] python: Prefer python3 over python To: Karl Berry <karl@HIDDEN> References: <202406212212.45LMCYh0045068@HIDDEN> Content-Language: en-US From: Collin Funk <collin.funk1@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <202406212212.45LMCYh0045068@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 71672 Cc: zack@HIDDEN, 71672 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) Hi Karl, Karl Berry wrote: > Yes ... but I feel strongly that we should try very hard not to break > existing configure setups. Reasonable goal. > It occurs to me that we could allow maintainers to specify p3-searching > options in their configure.ac, like > > AM_PYTHON_OPTS(python3-check-first python-check-omit) > > (Or additional args to AM_PATH_PYTHON, whatever.) > > That wouldn't have any compatibility issues, and would allow maintainers > to control what gets looked for, for packages that need to force python3. > (Other options could force looking for p2 first.) > > Would that make sense? Yes, I think that idea would work. Or maybe AM_PYTHON3_PATH which requires Python3 so that the interface of the original macro isn't changed. Do you have any ideas/opinions Zach? I don't ever use Python 2 so maybe my ideas for the interface are poor. Collin
automake-patches@HIDDEN
:bug#71672
; Package automake-patches
.
Full text available.Received: (at 71672) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Jun 2024 22:12:46 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Jun 21 18:12:46 2024 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43983 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1sKmUw-0006zi-8q for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Jun 2024 18:12:46 -0400 Received: from frenzy.freefriends.org ([198.99.81.75]:49470 helo=freefriends.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <karl@HIDDEN>) id 1sKmUu-0006zZ-2W for 71672 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Jun 2024 18:12:44 -0400 X-Envelope-From: karl@HIDDEN Received: from freefriends.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefriends.org (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPS id 45LMCZTg045069 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Fri, 21 Jun 2024 16:12:35 -0600 Received: (from apache@localhost) by freefriends.org (8.16.1/8.14.7/Submit) id 45LMCYh0045068; Fri, 21 Jun 2024 16:12:34 -0600 Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2024 16:12:34 -0600 Message-Id: <202406212212.45LMCYh0045068@HIDDEN> From: Karl Berry <karl@HIDDEN> To: collin.funk1@HIDDEN Subject: Re: [bug#71672] [PATCH] python: Prefer python3 over python In-Reply-To: <cee37283-3b44-4010-98e8-8a9674e85019@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 71672 Cc: zack@HIDDEN, 71672 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) I thought the intention was to prioritize python 3.X which would cause problems using "python" first. Yes ... but I feel strongly that we should try very hard not to break existing configure setups. It occurs to me that we could allow maintainers to specify p3-searching options in their configure.ac, like AM_PYTHON_OPTS(python3-check-first python-check-omit) (Or additional args to AM_PATH_PYTHON, whatever.) That wouldn't have any compatibility issues, and would allow maintainers to control what gets looked for, for packages that need to force python3. (Other options could force looking for p2 first.) Would that make sense? --thanks, karl.
automake-patches@HIDDEN
:bug#71672
; Package automake-patches
.
Full text available.Received: (at 71672) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Jun 2024 00:52:09 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jun 20 20:52:09 2024 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50423 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1sKSVc-0000jo-Uy for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 20 Jun 2024 20:52:09 -0400 Received: from mail-pg1-f169.google.com ([209.85.215.169]:50618) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <collin.funk1@HIDDEN>) id 1sKSVa-0000jN-Nc for 71672 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 20 Jun 2024 20:52:07 -0400 Received: by mail-pg1-f169.google.com with SMTP id 41be03b00d2f7-6e7b121be30so1149595a12.1 for <71672 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Thu, 20 Jun 2024 17:52:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1718931057; x=1719535857; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:content-language :references:cc:to:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=IuEAFXFVs0cLz/qdvWbl4coVssT5k5Bu2Bb/GfnOAIY=; b=gqHH2KipAKb21jj7EVpHxFpYXYcKBcabxHCaMtiudXWJJ9a4AvRLIHWSgYVIxh2PUh XZ00W4GEkC4UErsnJ9DRlL6Ezm9E/B19ZsJdt0MXcI1eEr1ddUXxM1vd4RX/LAVdNS3H 5Wfe4Uh97C+VHoCZR1YbyFTCw7gLBujSSMviyu0FOx0CpX/ZK9FL5UUTuNwIg7JKp4RD xl1f2aiLp2D2GA/oP+ZdwFhI4QyV2SGuTn3JsD2wmJAvNtTGQsO09YY7QNkz3wD8Irvo aF703EUbD0ZAadNYqZqmGYaZviznA1GccWoOI8XC+h3cOS13B8Q1HTzew3DCGJd6xezV bEog== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1718931057; x=1719535857; h=content-transfer-encoding:in-reply-to:from:content-language :references:cc:to:subject:user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=IuEAFXFVs0cLz/qdvWbl4coVssT5k5Bu2Bb/GfnOAIY=; b=NA5a2oBX6QGGqu5q3K2V6qNlTi7v9skuiMYlw9EUwVydbYWbcVNv+E5QEk5uoM0/tl +jhrWNSS5LRQ+1jnSidfzq6IhW6VTrDQN1bet2gATEh4JSFq1cmkMrdPZWcvJE7UTyHt zFMsaMS/XG0qXlIfbaZBaqKp4qKemOjCTTGFceA10B0Iylqm1REzmo45wGhOBXPt9DoA Bc6aLbT21JbR+bf3tpABdiNUrxbzolsM81lpwR1MleuY80FiSlyBL9U9K6Pu5gkYHMcr +pG9uODvTm9KrsKXqdQGd1BHLrZ8KUckEgyuUrprZQy6MoLx95uhbBVu+wsZZ8x/R3Of 5bOQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwCebhnsHoP/XLZh5iYxzJXDmk2QbmKmh5k8WTFq5xfnkVgL2yB hp+pVTucWiyc/OcuMTALmILWR/164jCJKoLCkRtbOzSwhHO6Kpv8 X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGXeyKfV32W4qVzlUvHiaolJtOr6iRcPyl0MBEuCApphb8lyoKa2gtCi1N6GF2Y+vuB9pH3JA== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:df07:b0:2c1:ebc4:4f1f with SMTP id 98e67ed59e1d1-2c7b5d56b91mr6625470a91.33.1718931056620; Thu, 20 Jun 2024 17:50:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.14] (c-73-189-213-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net. [73.189.213.139]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 98e67ed59e1d1-2c819dd0cf7sm305605a91.48.2024.06.20.17.50.55 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 20 Jun 2024 17:50:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <cee37283-3b44-4010-98e8-8a9674e85019@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2024 17:50:54 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [bug#71672] [PATCH] python: Prefer python3 over python To: Karl Berry <karl@HIDDEN>, zack@HIDDEN References: <202406202128.45KLSX9d1079062@HIDDEN> Content-Language: en-US From: Collin Funk <collin.funk1@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <202406202128.45KLSX9d1079062@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 71672 Cc: 71672 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.8 (/) Karl Berry wrote: > I can imagine preferring "python3" to "python" in the future, but this > seems like too big of a change to make at the very end (I hope) of the > pretest cycle. I think it would be better to make it well in advance of > the next release and try to garner feedback on the inevitable problems > that will result. --thanks, karl. Sounds reasonable to me. It was just something I stumbled upon last night. I thought the intention was to prioritize python 3.X which would cause problems using "python" first. We can just leave this bug open or something until there is feedback and no release rush. Collin
automake-patches@HIDDEN
:bug#71672
; Package automake-patches
.
Full text available.Received: (at 71672) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Jun 2024 21:28:46 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jun 20 17:28:46 2024 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44797 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1sKPKo-0008O1-3R for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 20 Jun 2024 17:28:46 -0400 Received: from frenzy.freefriends.org ([198.99.81.75]:40818 helo=freefriends.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <karl@HIDDEN>) id 1sKPKl-0008Nq-FI for 71672 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 20 Jun 2024 17:28:44 -0400 X-Envelope-From: karl@HIDDEN Received: from freefriends.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefriends.org (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPS id 45KLSXM71079063 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 20 Jun 2024 15:28:33 -0600 Received: (from apache@localhost) by freefriends.org (8.16.1/8.14.7/Submit) id 45KLSX9d1079062; Thu, 20 Jun 2024 15:28:33 -0600 Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2024 15:28:33 -0600 Message-Id: <202406202128.45KLSX9d1079062@HIDDEN> From: Karl Berry <karl@HIDDEN> To: zack@HIDDEN Subject: Re: [bug#71672] [PATCH] python: Prefer python3 over python In-Reply-To: <9253a3a6-43c4-4148-bc9e-8426ab93068c@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 71672 Cc: 71672 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, collin.funk1@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Collin, Zack - > Shouldn't AM_PATH_PYTHON check for the python3 command before python? Yes it should. That seems like a huge change to make. I understand the reasoning, given the world of Python, but the goal of "don't break existing projects" argues against it. Note that PEP 394 is dangerously incorrect on one point: a system where /usr/bin/python and/or the bare 'python' command invoke Python3 is a misconfigured system Nevertheless, that is the reality on Red Hat(-derived) 9 systems. I don't know about any others. a huge volume of Python 2-only scripts out there in the wild Right. assuming people who use AM_PATH_PYTHON with current versions of Automake *want* the Python 3 interpreter, for the most part That feels like an awfully big assumption to me. Ever since its inception, Automake has looked for "python" first. We will surely be breaking many existing projects if we change that default -- all the ones that are still using Python 2, for starters. Python created this insoluble problem. As far as I can see, we can't fix it. People will just have to set PYTHON if they need to a force a version different from the system, seems to me. I can imagine preferring "python3" to "python" in the future, but this seems like too big of a change to make at the very end (I hope) of the pretest cycle. I think it would be better to make it well in advance of the next release and try to garner feedback on the inevitable problems that will result. --thanks, karl.
automake-patches@HIDDEN
:bug#71672
; Package automake-patches
.
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Thu, 20 Jun 2024 09:33:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.11.0-alpha0-522-ga39cca1d5-fm-20240610.002-ga39cca1d MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <9253a3a6-43c4-4148-bc9e-8426ab93068c@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <8a243d12-4f25-4912-aa1f-b6f8c3ff4d2d@HIDDEN> References: <8a243d12-4f25-4912-aa1f-b6f8c3ff4d2d@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2024 09:33:14 -0400 From: "Zack Weinberg" <zack@HIDDEN> To: "Collin Funk" <collin.funk1@HIDDEN>, 71672 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: [bug#71672] [PATCH] python: Prefer python3 over python Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 71672 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) On Thu, Jun 20, 2024, at 5:50 AM, Collin Funk wrote: > Shouldn't AM_PATH_PYTHON check for the python3 command before python? Yes it should. > The full recommendation of how these should be setup is in PEP 394 Note that PEP 394 is dangerously incorrect on one point: a system where /usr/bin/python and/or the bare 'python' command invoke Python 3 is a misconfigured system, because there's -- yes, even now -- a huge volume of Python 2-only scripts out there in the wild that will malfunction if run under a Python 3 interpreter. In the worst case "malfunction" means "cause silent data corruption." This is mostly not Automake's problem, but -- assuming people who use AM_PATH_PYTHON with current versions of Automake *want* the Python 3 interpreter, for the most part -- it might be an argument for *not* probing unsuffixed 'python', only 'python3' and 'python3.*'. zw
automake-patches@HIDDEN
:bug#71672
; Package automake-patches
.
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[73.189.213.139]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 98e67ed59e1d1-2c7e5af9c50sm1243589a91.39.2024.06.20.02.50.17 for <automake-patches@HIDDEN> (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 20 Jun 2024 02:50:17 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------wfnwWj0TZnwsi4S8dTl4ZkBJ" Message-ID: <8a243d12-4f25-4912-aa1f-b6f8c3ff4d2d@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2024 02:50:16 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird From: Collin Funk <collin.funk1@HIDDEN> Subject: [PATCH] python: Prefer python3 over python To: automake-patches@HIDDEN Content-Language: en-US Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::531; envelope-from=collin.funk1@HIDDEN; helo=mail-pg1-x531.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: -1.1 (-) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------wfnwWj0TZnwsi4S8dTl4ZkBJ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Shouldn't AM_PATH_PYTHON check for the python3 command before python? The full recommendation of how these should be setup is in PEP 394 [1]. On modern systems I don't think it should matter. On Fedora 40: $ command -v python /usr/bin/python $ command -v python3 /usr/bin/python3 $ python --version Python 3.12.3 $ python3 --version Python 3.12.3 The difference mostly exists on older machines. On CentOS 7.9 for example: $ command -v python /usr/bin/python $ command -v python3 /usr/bin/python3 $ python --version Python 2.7.5 $ python3 --version Python 3.6.8 I've attached a proposed path. I don't see a situation where a python3.* is installed without a python3 link. Therefore checking for python3 and fallingback on python seems reasonable to me. Collin [1] https://peps.python.org/pep-0394/ --------------wfnwWj0TZnwsi4S8dTl4ZkBJ Content-Type: text/x-patch; charset=UTF-8; name="0001-python-Prefer-python3-over-python.patch" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="0001-python-Prefer-python3-over-python.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 RnJvbSBjZDg4YTI0NjFmMGM4OWMyZTcwYTdmYzNhMTcwNThmYjk4OTMxM2Q0IE1vbiBTZXAg MTcgMDA6MDA6MDAgMjAwMQpGcm9tOiBDb2xsaW4gRnVuayA8Y29sbGluLmZ1bmsxQGdtYWls LmNvbT4KRGF0ZTogVGh1LCAyMCBKdW4gMjAyNCAwMjoyNjo1MiAtMDcwMApTdWJqZWN0OiBb UEFUQ0hdIHB5dGhvbjogUHJlZmVyIHB5dGhvbjMgb3ZlciBweXRob24KCiogbTQvcHl0aG9u Lm00IChBTV9QQVRIX1BZVEhPTik6IENoZWNrIGZvciBweXRob24zIGJlZm9yZSBweXRob24u CiogTkVXUzogRG9jdW1lbnQgdGhhdCBweXRob24zIGlzIHVzZWQgZmlyc3QuCi0tLQogTkVX UyAgICAgICAgIHwgMiArLQogbTQvcHl0aG9uLm00IHwgMiArLQogMiBmaWxlcyBjaGFuZ2Vk LCAyIGluc2VydGlvbnMoKyksIDIgZGVsZXRpb25zKC0pCgpkaWZmIC0tZ2l0IGEvTkVXUyBi L05FV1MKaW5kZXggNzczNDdlNWEzLi45OWM1NjJmMTUgMTAwNjQ0Ci0tLSBhL05FV1MKKysr IGIvTkVXUwpAQCAtNyw3ICs3LDcgQEAgTmV3IGluIDEuMTc6CiAKICogTmV3IGZlYXR1cmVz IGFkZGVkCiAKLSAgLSBBTV9QQVRIX1BZVEhPTiB3aWxsLCBhZnRlciBjaGVja2luZyAicHl0 aG9uIiwgcHJlZmVyIGFueSBQeXRob24gMworICAtIEFNX1BBVEhfUFlUSE9OIHdpbGwsIGFm dGVyIGNoZWNraW5nICJweXRob24zIiwgcHJlZmVyIGFueSBQeXRob24gMwogICAgIHZlcnNp b24gKGxhdGVzdCB2ZXJzaW9ucyBjaGVja2VkIGZpcnN0KSBvdmVyIGFueSBQeXRob24gMgog ICAgIHZlcnNpb24uIElmIGEgc3BlY2lmaWMgdmVyc2lvbiBvZiBQeXRob24gMiBpcyBzdGls bCBuZWVkZWQsIHRoZQogICAgICRQWVRIT04gdmFyaWFibGUgc2hvdWxkIGJlIHNldCBiZWZv cmVoYW5kLgpkaWZmIC0tZ2l0IGEvbTQvcHl0aG9uLm00IGIvbTQvcHl0aG9uLm00CmluZGV4 IDBiMWRiMjY4OS4uMjExMTZlMWEzIDEwMDY0NAotLS0gYS9tNC9weXRob24ubTQKKysrIGIv bTQvcHl0aG9uLm00CkBAIC0zNyw3ICszNyw3IEBAIEFDX0RFRlVOKFtBTV9QQVRIX1BZVEhP Tl0KICAgZG5sIEZpbmQgYSBQeXRob24gaW50ZXJwcmV0ZXIuICBQeXRob24gdmVyc2lvbnMg cHJpb3IgdG8gMi4wIGFyZSBub3QKICAgZG5sIHN1cHBvcnRlZC4gKDIuMCB3YXMgcmVsZWFz ZWQgb24gT2N0b2JlciAxNiwgMjAwMCkuCiAgIG00X2RlZmluZV9kZWZhdWx0KFtfQU1fUFlU SE9OX0lOVEVSUFJFVEVSX0xJU1RdLAotW3B5dGhvbiBweXRob24zIGRubAorW3B5dGhvbjMg cHl0aG9uIGRubAogIHB5dGhvbjMuMjAgcHl0aG9uMy4xOSBweXRob24zLjE4IHB5dGhvbjMu MTcgcHl0aG9uMy4xNiBkbmwKICBweXRob24zLjE1IHB5dGhvbjMuMTQgcHl0aG9uMy4xMyBw eXRob24zLjEyIHB5dGhvbjMuMTEgcHl0aG9uMy4xMCBkbmwKICBweXRob24zLjkgcHl0aG9u My44IHB5dGhvbjMuNyBweXRob24zLjYgcHl0aG9uMy41IHB5dGhvbjMuNCBweXRob24zLjMg ZG5sCi0tIAoyLjQ1LjIKCg== --------------wfnwWj0TZnwsi4S8dTl4ZkBJ--
Collin Funk <collin.funk1@HIDDEN>
:automake-patches@HIDDEN
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Full text available.automake-patches@HIDDEN
:bug#71672
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