GNU bug report logs - #72023
feature request for date(1): strptime-style format string when you don't want date to guess

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Package: coreutils; Severity: wishlist; Reported by: <mark.yagnatinsky@HIDDEN>; dated Wed, 10 Jul 2024 02:20:01 UTC; Maintainer for coreutils is bug-coreutils@HIDDEN.

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Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2024 12:44:52 +0200
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Subject: Re: bug#72023: feature request for date(1): strptime-style format
 string when you don't want date to guess
To: mark.yagnatinsky@HIDDEN, 72023 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
References: <CH3PR12MB7619C3466E47EAB1ED99D80CF9DB2@HIDDEN>
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From: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN>
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I'm dubious. I've never had much luck with strptime, as in practice it 
has its own glitches that are even worse than what 'date' currently 
uses. For example, it's dicey in non-C locales, and it mishandles time 
zones and daylight saving transitions even in the C locale.

That being said, if someone can write the code and documentation and 
test cases it might be a good thing to have - particularly if some other 
'date' implementation is already doing that sort of thing and people 
have had good experience with it.




Information forwarded to bug-coreutils@HIDDEN:
bug#72023; Package coreutils. Full text available.

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From: <mark.yagnatinsky@HIDDEN>
To: <bug-coreutils@HIDDEN>
Subject: feature request for date(1): strptime-style format string when you
 don't want date to guess
Thread-Topic: feature request for date(1): strptime-style format string when
 you don't want date to guess
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--_000_CH3PR12MB7619C3466E47EAB1ED99D80CF9DB2CH3PR12MB7619namp_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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I suspect this has been requested many times over the decades but I haven=
't found anything in the issue tracker so...
The date command lets you choose my output format, but for input it tries=
=20to figure it out without hints.  For interactive use, this is great.
For usage in scripts, this is less than ideal, because that means you nee=
d to understand the heuristics to have confidence that your script will d=
o what you want.
For instance, this page:
https://www.gnu.org/software/coreutils/manual/html_node/Pure-numbers-in-d=
ate-strings.html
says that "If the decimal number is of the form yyyymmdd [...] yyyy is re=
ad as the year"
I stared at that sentence for a bit in confusion, thinking to myself "but=
=20how could it possibly KNOW that the number is of the form yyyymmdd??"
I finally realized that what it's really saying is that "if the number is=
=20exactly 8 digits long, we ASSUME that the first four digits are the ye=
ar".
Thus, if you have an 8-digit number that you want to interpret differentl=
y then you should massage it before passing it to date.

As it happens, I have an 8 digit number, and indeed the built-in assumpti=
ons happen to be a perfect fit for me.
But I still don't like to rely on them if I don't have to, and would rath=
er just tell it what I already know, instead of forcing date(1) to re-der=
ive it.

Thoughts?
Mark.

This message is for information purposes only. It is not a recommendation=
, advice, offer or solicitation to buy or sell a product or service, nor =
an official confirmation of any transaction. It is directed at persons wh=
o are professionals and is intended for the recipient(s) only. It is not =
directed at retail customers. This message is subject to the terms at: ht=
tps://www.ib.barclays/disclosures/web-and-email-disclaimer.html.=20

For important disclosures, please see: https://www.ib.barclays/disclosure=
s/sales-and-trading-disclaimer.html regarding marketing commentary from B=
arclays Sales and/or Trading desks, who are active market participants; h=
ttps://www.ib.barclays/disclosures/barclays-global-markets-disclosures.ht=
ml regarding our standard terms for Barclays Investment Bank where we tra=
de with you in principal-to-principal wholesale markets transactions; and=
=20in respect to Barclays Research, including disclosures relating to spe=
cific issuers, see: https://publicresearch.barclays.com.
_________________________________________________________________________=
_________=20
If you are incorporated or operating in Australia, read these important d=
isclosures: https://www.ib.barclays/disclosures/important-disclosures-asi=
a-pacific.html.
_________________________________________________________________________=
_________
For more details about how we use personal information, see our privacy n=
otice: https://www.ib.barclays/disclosures/personal-information-use.html.=
=20
_________________________________________________________________________=
_________

--_000_CH3PR12MB7619C3466E47EAB1ED99D80CF9DB2CH3PR12MB7619namp_
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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I suspect this has been requested many times over =
the decades but I haven&#8217;t found anything in the issue tracker so&#8=
230;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The date command lets you choose my output format,=
=20but for input it tries to figure it out without hints.&nbsp; For inter=
active use, this is great.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">For usage in scripts, this is less than ideal, bec=
ause that means you need to understand the heuristics to have confidence =
that your script will do what you want.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">For instance, this page:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://www.gnu.org/software/coreutils/=
manual/html_node/Pure-numbers-in-date-strings.html">https://www.gnu.org/s=
oftware/coreutils/manual/html_node/Pure-numbers-in-date-strings.html</a><=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">says that &#8220;If the decimal number is of the f=
orm yyyymmdd [&#8230;] yyyy is read as the year&#8221;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I stared at that sentence for a bit in confusion, =
thinking to myself &#8220;but how could it possibly KNOW that the number =
is of the form yyyymmdd??&#8221;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I finally realized that what it&#8217;s really say=
ing is that &#8220;if the number is exactly 8 digits long, we ASSUME that=
=20the first four digits are the year&#8221;.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thus, if you have an 8-digit number that you want =
to interpret differently then you should massage it before passing it to =
date.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">As it happens, I have an 8 digit number, and indee=
d the built-in assumptions happen to be a perfect fit for me.<o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">But I still don&#8217;t like to rely on them if I =
don&#8217;t have to, and would rather just tell it what I already know, i=
nstead of forcing date(1) to re-derive it.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thoughts?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Mark.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>

<P><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D"mso-ansi-language: EN-US">This message is =
for=20
information purposes only. It is not a recommendation, advice, offer or=20
solicitation to buy or sell a product or service, nor an official confirm=
ation=20
of any transaction. It is directed at persons who are professionals and i=
s=20
intended for the recipient(s) only. It is not directed at retail customer=
s. This=20
message is subject to the terms at: <A=20
href=3D"https://www.ib.barclays/disclosures/web-and-email-disclaimer.html=
">https://www.ib.barclays/disclosures/web-and-email-disclaimer.html</A>. =

</SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D"mso-ansi-language: EN-US">For important di=
sclosures,=20
please see: <A=20
href=3D"https://www.ib.barclays/disclosures/sales-and-trading-disclaimer.=
html">https://www.ib.barclays/disclosures/sales-and-trading-disclaimer.ht=
ml</A>=20
regarding marketing commentary from Barclays Sales and/or Trading desks, =
who are=20
active market participants; <A=20
href=3D"https://www.ib.barclays/disclosures/barclays-global-markets-discl=
osures.html">https://www.ib.barclays/disclosures/barclays-global-markets-=
disclosures.html</A>=20
regarding our standard terms for Barclays Investment Bank where we trade =
with=20
you in principal-to-principal wholesale markets transactions; and in resp=
ect to=20
Barclays Research, including disclosures relating to specific issuers, se=
e: <A=20
href=3D"https://publicresearch.barclays.com">https://publicresearch.barcl=
ays.com</A>.<BR>_________________________________________________________=
_________________________=20
<BR>If you are incorporated or operating in Australia, read these importa=
nt=20
disclosures: <A=20
href=3D"https://www.ib.barclays/disclosures/important-disclosures-asia-pa=
cific.html">https://www.ib.barclays/disclosures/important-disclosures-asi=
a-pacific.html</A>.<BR>__________________________________________________=
________________________________<BR>For=20
more details about how we use personal information, see our privacy notic=
e: <A=20
href=3D"https://www.ib.barclays/disclosures/personal-information-use.html=
">https://www.ib.barclays/disclosures/personal-information-use.html</A>. =

<BR>_____________________________________________________________________=
_____________<BR></O:P></SPAN></P>
</body>
</html>

--_000_CH3PR12MB7619C3466E47EAB1ED99D80CF9DB2CH3PR12MB7619namp_--




Acknowledgement sent to <mark.yagnatinsky@HIDDEN>:
New bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to bug-coreutils@HIDDEN. Full text available.
Report forwarded to bug-coreutils@HIDDEN:
bug#72023; Package coreutils. Full text available.
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