GNU bug report logs - #72160
29.3; package buglet

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Package: emacs; Reported by: Devon Sean McCullough <Emacs-hacker2023@HIDDEN>; Done: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN>; Maintainer for emacs is bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.

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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#72160: 29.3; package buglet
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> So I changed package-upgrade to no longer accept strings, and also
> reverted my change in package-install too.  I improved the error
> messages instead.

=F0=9F=91=8D=F0=9F=8F=BC


        Stefan
Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#72160; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 72160 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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Subject: Re: bug#72160: 29.3; package buglet
To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>,
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Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN> writes:

> Stefan Monnier via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of
> text editors" <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN> writes:
>
>>> We can improve on that error message, but is there any use-case for
>>> denoting a package by a string?

Not sure why it was added, to be honest.

>> +1
>>
>> The error message is poor, but accepting strings here seems like it
>> would just encourage bad practices.

It turns out package-upgrade has only been with us for a short time (new
in Emacs 29.1), and was never explicitly documented to accept strings.

So I changed package-upgrade to no longer accept strings, and also
reverted my change in package-install too.  I improved the error
messages instead.
Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#72160; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 72160 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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Subject: Re: bug#72160: 29.3; package buglet
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Stefan Monnier via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of
text editors" <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN> writes:

>> We can improve on that error message, but is there any use-case for
>> denoting a package by a string?
>
> +1
>
> The error message is poor, but accepting strings here seems like it
> would just encourage bad practices.

Any thoughts on `package-install` and `package-upgrade`?
Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#72160; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 72160 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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> We can improve on that error message, but is there any use-case for
> denoting a package by a string?

+1

The error message is poor, but accepting strings here seems like it
would just encourage bad practices.


        Stefan
Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#72160; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 72160 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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Subject: Re: bug#72160: 29.3; package buglet
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Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN> writes:

>> (package-install "xr") ; (error "Package =E2=80=98xr=E2=80=99 is unavail=
able")
>> Should work like (package-install 'xr)
>> instead of erring with that awfully misleading error message.
>
> I was considering just improving the error message, however
> `package-upgrade` already accepts either a symbol or a string.
>
> So I changed this function to accept a string also, to be more
> consistent (commit 735eace97b8).

BTW, the other option here is to make the backwards-incompatible change
and make `package-upgrade` require only a symbol.

I'd personally be fine with that instead, but then that should probably
just lead to a warning at first, for a couple of versions or so.
Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#72160; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 72160-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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Subject: Re: bug#72160: 29.3; package buglet
To: Devon Sean McCullough <Emacs-hacker2023@HIDDEN>
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Version: 31.1

Devon Sean McCullough <Emacs-hacker2023@HIDDEN> writes:

> Strings and symbols should be equally acceptable package designators.
>
> (use-package 'xr) ; (wrong-type-argument symbolp 'xr)
> Should work like (use-package "xr")

I can see an argument in favor of more DWIM here, because this is
supposed to be a _help_ for configuring Emacs.  Why not make it as
helpful as possible?

On the other hand, probably a better error message is all that is
needed, and it will help keep things consistent and less confusing
across examples and documentation in the wild.

So I have made this have a better error on master (commit 38782e684bf),
and similarly when using a quoted symbol:

String where there should be a symbol.  Hint: say this instead:
=E2=80=98(use-package foo ...)=E2=80=99

> (package-install "xr") ; (error "Package =E2=80=98xr=E2=80=99 is unavaila=
ble")
> Should work like (package-install 'xr)
> instead of erring with that awfully misleading error message.

I was considering just improving the error message, however
`package-upgrade` already accepts either a symbol or a string.

So I changed this function to accept a string also, to be more
consistent (commit 735eace97b8).

With that, I'm closing this bug report.
Notification sent to Devon Sean McCullough <Emacs-hacker2023@HIDDEN>:
bug acknowledged by developer. Full text available.
Reply sent to Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN>:
You have taken responsibility. Full text available.

Message received at 72160 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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To: Devon Sean McCullough <Emacs-hacker2023@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#72160: 29.3; package buglet
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Devon Sean McCullough <Emacs-hacker2023@HIDDEN> writes:

> On 2024-07-21 05:59, Philip Kaludercic wrote:
>> Devon Sean McCullough <Emacs-hacker2023@HIDDEN> writes:
>>> Strings and symbols should be equally acceptable package designators.
>> We can improve on that error message, but is there any use-case for
>> denoting a package by a string?
>
> Consistency -- load-library takes strings.
> Features, libraries & packages all fill the same needs
> so require should take strings too.

Load-library takes a string, and signals an error if you pass it a
symbol.  My take: This makes sense, since the string is denoting a file
in `load-path'.  Symbols on the other hand are a kind of "protocol"
between (provide ...) and (require ...) expressions, and abstract over
loading of files, e.g. by not loading a feature that has already been
required before.  Packages on the other hand are another level on top of
features, that also happens to use symbols, but with a different intent.

So to me, consistency means keeping these levels of abstraction
distinct, and not coercing inputs to match more than we do already
(e.g. with the assumption that packages always provide a feature of the
same name).

Again, what I wanted to know of there was a practical use-case for
packages to accept string; there is probably little point in discussing
matters of taste here.

> 		Peace
> 			--Devon
>
> P.S.  Symbol/string dichotomy exposes implementation
> details not germane to the user's task.
>

-- 
	Philip Kaludercic on peregrine
Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#72160; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 72160 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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> Cc: 72160 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2024 10:30:32 -0500
> From: Devon Sean McCullough <Emacs-hacker2023@HIDDEN>
> 
> On 2024-07-21 05:59, Philip Kaludercic wrote:
> > Devon Sean McCullough <Emacs-hacker2023@HIDDEN> writes:
> >> Strings and symbols should be equally acceptable package designators.
> > 
> > We can improve on that error message, but is there any use-case for
> > denoting a package by a string?
> 
> Consistency -- load-library takes strings.
> Features, libraries & packages all fill the same needs
> so require should take strings too.

AFAIR, require never accepted strings, only symbols.  I'm not sure why
we need to change that so many years later.
Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#72160; Package emacs. Full text available.

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On 2024-07-21 05:59, Philip Kaludercic wrote:
> Devon Sean McCullough <Emacs-hacker2023@HIDDEN> writes:
>> Strings and symbols should be equally acceptable package designators.
> 
> We can improve on that error message, but is there any use-case for
> denoting a package by a string?

Consistency -- load-library takes strings.
Features, libraries & packages all fill the same needs
so require should take strings too.

		Peace
			--Devon

P.S.  Symbol/string dichotomy exposes implementation
details not germane to the user's task.
Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#72160; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 72160 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN>
To: Devon Sean McCullough <Emacs-hacker2023@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#72160: 29.3; package buglet
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Devon Sean McCullough <Emacs-hacker2023@HIDDEN> writes:

> Strings and symbols should be equally acceptable package designators.
>
> (use-package 'xr) ; (wrong-type-argument symbolp 'xr)
> Should work like (use-package "xr")
>
> (package-install "xr") ; (error "Package =E2=80=98xr=E2=80=99 is unavaila=
ble")
> Should work like (package-install 'xr)
> instead of erring with that awfully misleading error message.

We can improve on that error message, but is there any use-case for
denoting a package by a string?

> 		Peace
> 			--Devon
>
> In GNU Emacs 29.3 (build 1, x86_64-apple-darwin18.7.0, NS appkit-1671.60
>  Version 10.14.6 (Build 18G9323)) of 2024-03-24 built on
>  builder10-14.lan
> Windowing system distributor 'Apple', version 10.3.1671
> System Description:  Mac OS X 10.14.6
>
> Configured using:
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>  Support/Emacs/${version}/site-lisp:/Library/Application
>  Support/Emacs/site-lisp' --with-modules 'CFLAGS=3D-DFD_SETSIZE=3D10000
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>
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>
> Important settings:
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>   value of $LANG: C
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>
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>
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> jka-cmpr-hook help abbrev obarray oclosure cl-preloaded button loaddefs
> theme-loaddefs faces cus-face macroexp files window text-properties
> overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget keymap
> hashtable-print-readable backquote threads kqueue cocoa ns multi-tty
> make-network-process emacs)
>
> Memory information:
> ((conses 16 134157 9903)
>  (symbols 48 13597 0)
>  (strings 32 50442 1886)
>  (string-bytes 1 1393046)
>  (vectors 16 27275)
>  (vector-slots 8 602587 11416)
>  (floats 8 55 50)
>  (intervals 56 445 0)
>  (buffers 984 13))
>
>
>
>

--=20
	Philip Kaludercic on peregrine
Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#72160; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 72160 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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Subject: Re: bug#72160: 29.3; package buglet
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Devon Sean McCullough <Emacs-hacker2023@HIDDEN> writes:

> Strings and symbols should be equally acceptable package designators.
>
> (use-package 'xr) ; (wrong-type-argument symbolp 'xr)
> Should work like (use-package "xr")

I think you should specify a symbol as argument of that macro, not a
quoted symbol:

  (use-package xr)


Michael.
Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#72160; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 72160 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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Perhaps use-package and package-install should ensure the package system 
is initialised?

		Peace
			--Devon

P.S.  This would have averted much confusion.
Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#72160; Package emacs. Full text available.

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Strings and symbols should be equally acceptable package designators.

(use-package 'xr) ; (wrong-type-argument symbolp 'xr)
Should work like (use-package "xr")

(package-install "xr") ; (error "Package ‘xr’ is unavailable")
Should work like (package-install 'xr)
instead of erring with that awfully misleading error message.

		Peace
			--Devon

In GNU Emacs 29.3 (build 1, x86_64-apple-darwin18.7.0, NS appkit-1671.60
  Version 10.14.6 (Build 18G9323)) of 2024-03-24 built on
  builder10-14.lan
Windowing system distributor 'Apple', version 10.3.1671
System Description:  Mac OS X 10.14.6

Configured using:
  'configure --with-ns '--enable-locallisppath=/Library/Application
  Support/Emacs/${version}/site-lisp:/Library/Application
  Support/Emacs/site-lisp' --with-modules 'CFLAGS=-DFD_SETSIZE=10000
  -DDARWIN_UNLIMITED_SELECT' --with-x-toolkit=no'

Configured features:
ACL GLIB GMP GNUTLS JPEG JSON LIBXML2 MODULES NOTIFY KQUEUE NS PDUMPER
PNG RSVG SQLITE3 THREADS TIFF TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS TREE_SITTER ZLIB

Important settings:
   value of $LC_CTYPE: UTF-8
   value of $LANG: C
   locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix

Major mode: Lisp Interaction

Minor modes in effect:
   sly-symbol-completion-mode: t
   tooltip-mode: t
   global-eldoc-mode: t
   eldoc-mode: t
   show-paren-mode: t
   electric-indent-mode: t
   mouse-wheel-mode: t
   tool-bar-mode: t
   menu-bar-mode: t
   file-name-shadow-mode: t
   global-font-lock-mode: t
   font-lock-mode: t
   blink-cursor-mode: t
   line-number-mode: t
   indent-tabs-mode: t
   transient-mark-mode: t
   auto-composition-mode: t
   auto-encryption-mode: t
   auto-compression-mode: t

Load-path shadows:
None found.

Features:
(shadow sort mail-extr emacsbug message yank-media puny dired
dired-loaddefs rfc822 mml mml-sec epa derived epg rfc6068 epg-config
gnus-util text-property-search time-date mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode
mail-parse rfc2231 mailabbrev gmm-utils mailheader sendmail rfc2047
rfc2045 ietf-drums mm-util mail-prsvr mail-utils easy-mmode
sly-completion sly-buttons sly-messages sly-common apropos etags
fileloop generator xref project arc-mode archive-mode comint ansi-osc
ansi-color ring hyperspec thingatpt chatgpt-shell-autoloads
csv-mode-autoloads dir-treeview-autoloads dired-subtree-autoloads
dired-hacks-utils-autoloads dash-autoloads dismal-autoloads
elpy-autoloads google-translate-autoloads
highlight-indentation-autoloads haskell-mode-autoloads company-autoloads
flycheck-autoloads mmm-mode-autoloads paren-face-autoloads
popup-autoloads python-mode-autoloads pyvenv-autoloads
realgud-lldb-autoloads realgud-autoloads realgud-recursive-autoloads
loc-changes-autoloads load-relative-autoloads recover-buffers-autoloads
s-autoloads shell-maker-autoloads slime-autoloads macrostep-autoloads
compat-autoloads info sly-autoloads test-simple-autoloads
treeview-autoloads undo-tree-autoloads queue-autoloads vcard-autoloads
web-mode-autoloads xbm-life-autoloads xr-autoloads yascroll-autoloads
yasnippet-autoloads warnings cl-extra use-package-core help-fns
radix-tree cl-print debug backtrace help-mode find-func cus-edit pp
cus-start cus-load icons wid-edit finder-inf package browse-url url
url-proxy url-privacy url-expand url-methods url-history url-cookie
generate-lisp-file url-domsuf url-util mailcap url-handlers url-parse
auth-source cl-seq eieio eieio-core cl-macs password-cache json subr-x
map byte-opt gv bytecomp byte-compile url-vars cl-loaddefs cl-lib rmc
iso-transl tooltip cconv eldoc paren electric uniquify ediff-hook
vc-hooks lisp-float-type elisp-mode mwheel term/ns-win ns-win
ucs-normalize mule-util term/common-win tool-bar dnd fontset image
regexp-opt fringe tabulated-list replace newcomment text-mode lisp-mode
prog-mode register page tab-bar menu-bar rfn-eshadow isearch easymenu
timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax font-core
term/tty-colors frame minibuffer nadvice seq simple cl-generic
indonesian philippine cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese
tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese eucjp-ms cp51932 hebrew greek
romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese
composite emoji-zwj charscript charprop case-table epa-hook
jka-cmpr-hook help abbrev obarray oclosure cl-preloaded button loaddefs
theme-loaddefs faces cus-face macroexp files window text-properties
overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget keymap
hashtable-print-readable backquote threads kqueue cocoa ns multi-tty
make-network-process emacs)

Memory information:
((conses 16 134157 9903)
  (symbols 48 13597 0)
  (strings 32 50442 1886)
  (string-bytes 1 1393046)
  (vectors 16 27275)
  (vector-slots 8 602587 11416)
  (floats 8 55 50)
  (intervals 56 445 0)
  (buffers 984 13))
Acknowledgement sent to Devon Sean McCullough <Emacs-hacker2023@HIDDEN>:
New bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN. Full text available.
Report forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#72160; Package emacs. Full text available.
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Last modified: Tue, 4 Mar 2025 03:00:02 UTC

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Copyright (C) 1999 Darren O. Benham, 1997 nCipher Corporation Ltd, 1994-97 Ian Jackson.