GNU bug report logs - #72313
31.0.50; Warning about cl-member possibly being undefined when using cl-pushnew

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Tassilo Horn <tsdh <at> gnu.org>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: 31.0.50; Warning about cl-member possibly being undefined when
 using cl-pushnew
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2024 22:29:08 +0200

The following non-sensical code is a MWE triggering the warning

  test.el: Warning: the function ‘cl-member’ might not be defined
           at runtime.

when byte-compiling it with

  emacs -Q --batch -f batch-byte-compile test.el

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
;;  -*- lexical-binding: t; -*-
(eval-when-compile
  (require 'cl-lib))

(defun foo ()
  (let ((s (list 'a 'b)))
    (cl-pushnew (list 1 2 3)
                s
                :test (lambda (_a _b) nil))))
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

Code with that shape of cl-pushnew usage can be found in AUCTeX's
tex-info.el where it produces the same warning which sounds very strange
given that the complete file doesn't use cl-member.

I've checked the cl-lib code and could see that cl-pushnew expands to
something with cl-adjoin which in turn has a compiler macro
cl-compiler-macro-adjoin which could expand to something with cl-member
(but doesn't in this case, I think?)...

My assumption is that (eval-when-compile (require 'cl-lib)) should be
fine when using only macros from cl-lib which in turn should expand to
cl-free code, i.e., the byte code doesn't require cl-lib at runtime.
If, however, cl-pushnew can expand to something using cl-member (a
function), that wouldn't be true.


In GNU Emacs 31.0.50 (build 4, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version
 3.24.43, cairo version 1.18.0) of 2024-07-26 built on thinkpad-t440p
Repository revision: c22b4198b2e5a9d63109c5ceeb386fbb1904f5dc
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Message #8 received at 72313 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Jeremy Bryant <jb <at> jeremybryant.net>
To: Tassilo Horn <tsdh <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 72313 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca>
Subject: Re: bug#72313: 31.0.50; Warning about cl-member possibly being
 undefined when using cl-pushnew
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2024 22:20:57 +0100

Tassilo Horn <tsdh <at> gnu.org> writes:

> The following non-sensical code is a MWE triggering the warning
>
>   test.el: Warning: the function ‘cl-member’ might not be defined
>            at runtime.
>
> when byte-compiling it with
>
>   emacs -Q --batch -f batch-byte-compile test.el
>
> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
> ;;  -*- lexical-binding: t; -*-
> (eval-when-compile
>   (require 'cl-lib))
>
> (defun foo ()
>   (let ((s (list 'a 'b)))
>     (cl-pushnew (list 1 2 3)
>                 s
>                 :test (lambda (_a _b) nil))))
> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
>
> Code with that shape of cl-pushnew usage can be found in AUCTeX's
> tex-info.el where it produces the same warning which sounds very strange
> given that the complete file doesn't use cl-member.
>
> I've checked the cl-lib code and could see that cl-pushnew expands to
> something with cl-adjoin which in turn has a compiler macro
> cl-compiler-macro-adjoin which could expand to something with cl-member
> (but doesn't in this case, I think?)...
>
> My assumption is that (eval-when-compile (require 'cl-lib)) should be
> fine when using only macros from cl-lib which in turn should expand to
> cl-free code, i.e., the byte code doesn't require cl-lib at runtime.
> If, however, cl-pushnew can expand to something using cl-member (a
> function), that wouldn't be true.

Adding Stefan M.

Message #11 received at 72313 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca>
To: Tassilo Horn <tsdh <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 72313 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#72313: 31.0.50; Warning about cl-member possibly being
 undefined when using cl-pushnew
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2024 03:01:32 -0400

> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
> ;;  -*- lexical-binding: t; -*-
> (eval-when-compile
>   (require 'cl-lib))
>
> (defun foo ()
>   (let ((s (list 'a 'b)))
>     (cl-pushnew (list 1 2 3)
>                 s
>                 :test (lambda (_a _b) nil))))
> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

    (macroexpand-all '(cl-pushnew (list 1 2 3) s :test (lambda (_a _b) nil)))
=>
    (setq s
     (let* ((va (list 1 2 3)))
       (if (cl-member va s :test #'(lambda (_a _b) nil)) s (cons va s))))

> My assumption is that (eval-when-compile (require 'cl-lib)) should be
> fine when using only macros from cl-lib which in turn should expand to
> cl-free code,

That's not the case here (and a few other places).
In the past, I've moved some of this kind of code to `cl-preloaded`, so
as to make things easier for programmers (to avoid them having to know
which CL macros emit code which calls CL functions (and when)), but
there are still cases like above, yes.

In practice most complex macros are often best served by emitting code
which itself calls helper functions (e.g. `cl-defstruct` used to not
call a function but I changed it to call `cl-struct-define`).


        Stefan

Message #14 received at 72313 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Tassilo Horn <tsdh <at> gnu.org>
To: Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca>
Cc: 72313 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#72313: 31.0.50; Warning about cl-member possibly being
 undefined when using cl-pushnew
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2024 09:13:50 +0200

Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

Hi Stefan,

>     (macroexpand-all '(cl-pushnew (list 1 2 3) s :test (lambda (_a _b) nil)))
> =>
>     (setq s
>      (let* ((va (list 1 2 3)))
>        (if (cl-member va s :test #'(lambda (_a _b) nil)) s (cons va s))))
>
>> My assumption is that (eval-when-compile (require 'cl-lib)) should be
>> fine when using only macros from cl-lib which in turn should expand
>> to cl-free code,
>
> That's not the case here (and a few other places).  In the past, I've
> moved some of this kind of code to `cl-preloaded`, so as to make
> things easier for programmers (to avoid them having to know which CL
> macros emit code which calls CL functions (and when)), but there are
> still cases like above, yes.

So the conclusion is to simply (require 'cl-lib) instead of
(eval-when-compile (require 'cl-lib))?  But how can the byte-compiler
conclude that cl-member might not be defined at runtime given that it's
an autoloaded function?

Addon question: should a package list cl-lib in Package-Requires if it
already requires an Emacs version where a good-enough cl-lib is included
anyway?

Thanks,
  Tassilo

Message #17 received at 72313 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca>
To: Tassilo Horn <tsdh <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 72313 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#72313: 31.0.50; Warning about cl-member possibly being
 undefined when using cl-pushnew
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2024 03:49:57 -0400

> So the conclusion is to simply (require 'cl-lib) instead of
> (eval-when-compile (require 'cl-lib))?  But how can the byte-compiler
> conclude that cl-member might not be defined at runtime given that it's
> an autoloaded function?

It's autoloaded from `cl-seq` when `cl-lib` is loaded.
It's not autoloaded at startup.

> Addon question: should a package list cl-lib in Package-Requires if it
> already requires an Emacs version where a good-enough cl-lib is included
> anyway?

I can't see any reason to do that, no.


        Stefan

Message #20 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Arash Esbati <arash <at> gnu.org>
To: Stefan Monnier via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of
 text editors" <bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 72313 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca>,
 Tassilo Horn <tsdh <at> gnu.org>
Subject: Re: bug#72313: 31.0.50; Warning about cl-member possibly being
 undefined when using cl-pushnew
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2024 17:29:43 +0200

Stefan Monnier via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" <bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org> writes:

>> So the conclusion is to simply (require 'cl-lib) instead of
>> (eval-when-compile (require 'cl-lib))?  But how can the byte-compiler
>> conclude that cl-member might not be defined at runtime given that it's
>> an autoloaded function?
>
> It's autoloaded from `cl-seq` when `cl-lib` is loaded.
> It's not autoloaded at startup.

How about this approach then?

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
diff --git a/tex-info.el b/tex-info.el
index dc69762e..0f77e057 100644
--- a/tex-info.el
+++ b/tex-info.el
@@ -25,7 +25,8 @@
 ;;; Code:

 (eval-when-compile
-  (require 'cl-lib))
+  (require 'cl-lib)
+  (declare-function cl-member "cl-seq"))

 (require 'tex)
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

Best, Arash

Message #26 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Tassilo Horn <tsdh <at> gnu.org>
To: Arash Esbati <arash <at> gnu.org>
Cc: "Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of
 text editors" <bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org>,
 Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca>, 72313 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#72313: 31.0.50; Warning about cl-member possibly being
 undefined when using cl-pushnew
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2024 22:50:35 +0200

Arash Esbati <arash <at> gnu.org> writes:

> Stefan Monnier via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of
> text editors" <bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org> writes:
>
>>> So the conclusion is to simply (require 'cl-lib) instead of
>>> (eval-when-compile (require 'cl-lib))?  But how can the
>>> byte-compiler conclude that cl-member might not be defined at
>>> runtime given that it's an autoloaded function?
>>
>> It's autoloaded from `cl-seq` when `cl-lib` is loaded.
>> It's not autoloaded at startup.

What's that magic?

  emacs -Q
  (featurep 'cl-lib) ;=> nil
  (describe-function 'cl-member) ; prints the help string to *Messages*
  (featurep 'cl-lib) ;=> t

Do the help facilities load stuff on demand?

> How about this approach then?
>
> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
> diff --git a/tex-info.el b/tex-info.el
> index dc69762e..0f77e057 100644
> --- a/tex-info.el
> +++ b/tex-info.el
> @@ -25,7 +25,8 @@
>  ;;; Code:
>
>  (eval-when-compile
> -  (require 'cl-lib))
> +  (require 'cl-lib)
> +  (declare-function cl-member "cl-seq"))
>
>  (require 'tex)
> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

Let's just require cl-lib.  declare-function only silences the
byte-compiler and the usage of cl-member at runtime is a fact; no
cheating allowed.  It's also an implementation detail we should not
bother with.  Tomorrow, Stefan might have optimized it to use some
cl-memql-1-wazzup for the specific case we have here. :-)

Bye,
  Tassilo

Message #32 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Arash Esbati <arash <at> gnu.org>
To: Tassilo Horn <tsdh <at> gnu.org>
Cc: "Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of
 text editors" <bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org>,
 Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca>, 72313 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#72313: 31.0.50; Warning about cl-member possibly being
 undefined when using cl-pushnew
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2024 23:25:14 +0200

Tassilo Horn <tsdh <at> gnu.org> writes:

> Let's just require cl-lib.  declare-function only silences the
> byte-compiler and the usage of cl-member at runtime is a fact; no
> cheating allowed.  It's also an implementation detail we should not
> bother with.

I'm not sure if this is cheating, but I'm easy, and if we want to
require cl-lib, I'd do it in tex.el which is loaded by all
<mode-name>.el files; so basically:

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
diff --git a/tex-info.el b/tex-info.el
index dc69762e..4ae14401 100644
--- a/tex-info.el
+++ b/tex-info.el
@@ -24,9 +24,6 @@

 ;;; Code:

-(eval-when-compile
-  (require 'cl-lib))
-
 (require 'tex)

 (require 'texinfo)
diff --git a/tex.el b/tex.el
index e67d2059..729e4db2 100644
--- a/tex.el
+++ b/tex.el
@@ -33,8 +33,8 @@

 (require 'custom)
 (require 'tex-site)
+(require 'cl-lib)
 (eval-when-compile
-  (require 'cl-lib)
   (require 'subr-x))
 (require 'texmathp)
 ;; seq.el is preloaded in Emacs 29, so the next form can be removed
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

(plus some more changes to come).

> Tomorrow, Stefan might have optimized it to use some cl-memql-1-wazzup
> for the specific case we have here. :-)

I will not put my money on another bet :)

Best, Arash

Message #38 received at 72313 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Tassilo Horn <tsdh <at> gnu.org>
Cc: arash <at> gnu.org, 72313 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca
Subject: Re: bug#72313: 31.0.50;
 Warning about cl-member possibly being undefined when using cl-pushnew
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2024 07:58:51 +0300

> Cc: 72313 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca
> From: Tassilo Horn <tsdh <at> gnu.org>
> Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2024 22:50:35 +0200
> 
> Arash Esbati <arash <at> gnu.org> writes:
> 
> > Stefan Monnier via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of
> > text editors" <bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org> writes:
> >
> >>> So the conclusion is to simply (require 'cl-lib) instead of
> >>> (eval-when-compile (require 'cl-lib))?  But how can the
> >>> byte-compiler conclude that cl-member might not be defined at
> >>> runtime given that it's an autoloaded function?
> >>
> >> It's autoloaded from `cl-seq` when `cl-lib` is loaded.
> >> It's not autoloaded at startup.
> 
> What's that magic?
> 
>   emacs -Q
>   (featurep 'cl-lib) ;=> nil
>   (describe-function 'cl-member) ; prints the help string to *Messages*
>   (featurep 'cl-lib) ;=> t
> 
> Do the help facilities load stuff on demand?

Yes, of course.  As the rest of Emacs, actually.  In fact, only
help.el is preloaded, the rest of Help facilities (help-mode,
help-fns, apropos, etc.) are loaded on demand only.

Message #41 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Tassilo Horn <tsdh <at> gnu.org>
To: Arash Esbati <arash <at> gnu.org>
Cc: "Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of
 text editors" <bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org>,
 Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca>, 72313-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#72313: 31.0.50; Warning about cl-member possibly being
 undefined when using cl-pushnew
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2024 19:44:26 +0200

Arash Esbati <arash <at> gnu.org> writes:

Hi Arash,

>> Let's just require cl-lib.  declare-function only silences the
>> byte-compiler and the usage of cl-member at runtime is a fact; no
>> cheating allowed.  It's also an implementation detail we should not
>> bother with.
>
> I'm not sure if this is cheating, but I'm easy, and if we want to
> require cl-lib, I'd do it in tex.el which is loaded by all
> <mode-name>.el files; so basically:

Yes, I've done something along those lines (and also required the very
small subr-x).  AUCTeX is traditionally very conservative with
dependencies but we should not limit ourselves by not using basic emacs
functions in the common libs like cl-lib, seq, or subr-x.

I'm closing this report.  Thanks for the explanations, Stefan & Eli.

Bye,
  Tassilo

Message #49 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Arash Esbati <arash <at> gnu.org>
To: Tassilo Horn <tsdh <at> gnu.org>
Cc: "Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of
 text editors" <bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org>,
 Stefan Monnier <monnier <at> iro.umontreal.ca>, 72313-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#72313: 31.0.50; Warning about cl-member possibly being
 undefined when using cl-pushnew
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2024 21:55:24 +0200

Hi Tassilo,

Tassilo Horn <tsdh <at> gnu.org> writes:

> Yes, I've done something along those lines (and also required the very
> small subr-x).  AUCTeX is traditionally very conservative with
> dependencies but we should not limit ourselves by not using basic
> emacs functions in the common libs like cl-lib, seq, or subr-x.

Thanks, I think this change was sowewhat overdue.

Best, Arash

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