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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#74145: 31.0.50; Default lexical-binding to t
In-Reply-To: <86y0y035ya.fsf@HIDDEN> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 20 Feb
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2025 15:00:30 -0500
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>> I wrote "I feel like I'm missing something", but I'm starting to think
>> that you're the one who missed the fact that the patch I pushed is not
>> the one you think.
>
> No, I'm not missing anything, except some kind of response to those
> posts.
Then I'm still missing what is the connection with the patch I pushed.
Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#74145; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 74145) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Feb 2025 17:02:40 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Feb 20 12:02:40 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39373 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tl9wd-0000Kz-D7 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 20 Feb 2025 12:02:39 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:44506) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1tl9wa-0000Jm-Cr for 74145 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 20 Feb 2025 12:02:37 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1tl9wT-0006zr-Vo; Thu, 20 Feb 2025 12:02:29 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=ElE9opLLBs+k6hud81FC+WUyhpU/TUkrZHY8Cm0rAYo=; b=TXARNaf/AVQb Sthox6oPnCPiW/xBILbS9JG2TGjbsZP8il/fYh9N4XnzvSmcqwDKkTncobQJCObVDOjOruWvPCvew hkAKitu0xlOmrtAXnk1gqkGLqd2hUFotutU/rlk39Q3Hvsu7J7a+jqb+bJhrMHSJxLs6U/OPPEhZm Ebqw7So0oe1mgBkstygJJ+999+W7WcmZjPuIIebmtT+4Vf6efXt4KIM8cXrcHGkJ65yacYUePwbot 8rP3iTupboAOF/6mTYl3gp2Ry4E7SpBQs1xpA/DHTNio52u5rNR/UFqr4h3qn9maO5ng3pBDXWv3I zxpO+1K6JPN3cBNrmJwzvg==; Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2025 19:02:21 +0200 Message-Id: <86y0y035ya.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <jwvcyfcsmgd.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> (message from Stefan Monnier on Thu, 20 Feb 2025 09:52:03 -0500) Subject: Re: bug#74145: 31.0.50; Default lexical-binding to t References: <jwv4j4sat2i.fsf@HIDDEN> <jwvv7tc5v61.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmmvT9fbnEsVFNZ21go2rBhcxmit7mYY+AVyadJfg1BZww@HIDDEN> <jwvzfijvt8a.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <867c5m6sck.fsf@HIDDEN> <jwv8qq2ugaz.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <86bjux6f4a.fsf@HIDDEN> <jwvpljd7hkb.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <861pvt5d50.fsf@HIDDEN> <jwvcyfcsmgd.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 74145 Cc: 74145 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, stefankangas@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> > Cc: stefankangas@HIDDEN, 74145 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2025 09:52:03 -0500 > > > I said "objections and suggestions". I meant these: > > > > https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2025-01/msg00531.html > > https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=74145#57 > > https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=74145#60 > > These are about changing the default, which is not what the patch > I pushed does. > > > https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=74145#36 > > The patch I pushed does not include this change. > > The patch I pushed does not close this issue at all. > It only contains the small subset of my original patch for which I did > not see any objections! > > I wrote "I feel like I'm missing something", but I'm starting to think > that you're the one who missed the fact that the patch I pushed is not > the one you think. No, I'm not missing anything, except some kind of response to those posts.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#74145; Package emacs.
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#74145: 31.0.50; Default lexical-binding to t
In-Reply-To: <861pvt5d50.fsf@HIDDEN> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 20 Feb
2025 08:44:11 +0200")
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2025 09:52:03 -0500
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> I said "objections and suggestions". I meant these:
>
> https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2025-01/msg00531.html
> https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=74145#57
> https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=74145#60
These are about changing the default, which is not what the patch
I pushed does.
> https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=74145#36
The patch I pushed does not include this change.
The patch I pushed does not close this issue at all.
It only contains the small subset of my original patch for which I did
not see any objections!
I wrote "I feel like I'm missing something", but I'm starting to think
that you're the one who missed the fact that the patch I pushed is not
the one you think.
Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#74145; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 74145) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Feb 2025 12:03:18 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Feb 20 07:03:18 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33474 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tl5Gw-0000Lm-1u for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 20 Feb 2025 07:03:18 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:45928) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1tl5Gs-0000Ku-GK for 74145 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 20 Feb 2025 07:03:15 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1tl5Gn-0004G0-5m; Thu, 20 Feb 2025 07:03:09 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=l0zf0g1rK+H/RQk38bYxau7wxvgIEYBiMZIYaAcz/Uk=; b=CaTdhSZH8al1 3aNvqcDDjQmt/li1APSyoOq1O5atXrXikKo2kg9A/b3RGc0DEzpERhGVJKRR35xJieARKnPYc+WPx KPn8oAP4s1+gYszjc1BHsQ/URg+C9xoM5eyJdEu8Hujogmn8lZXwaxDdWyYLB3qcRMCMf4376Fuar CFDn9t21YSr2JKw5Sec2NGWatSyH4YCV/pLibBx1QJdWEOkbMDc5wwg0/eTL+ciAeUFKY6CH+Q865 8JZqawB3sdgN4cryrMjBq8gUYy3ISJ3Zr6XEdRx5xP7j/7KGYlVJZVOv0uNP/6WxzRjq2mSeweNwY TBrVWzynKbx2v37rgrFwdA==; Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1tl5Gl-0007KJ-Jw; Thu, 20 Feb 2025 07:03:08 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <jwveczx5nki.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> (bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN) Subject: Re: bug#74145: 31.0.50; Default lexical-binding to t References: <jwv4j4sat2i.fsf@HIDDEN> <jwvv7tc5v61.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <E1tjoPW-0004ii-Uo@HIDDEN> <jwveczx5nki.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> Message-Id: <E1tl5Gl-0007KJ-Jw@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2025 07:03:07 -0500 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 74145 Cc: 74145 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Reply-To: rms@HIDDEN Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > The difference between the two, for users, is whether they need > (set-default-toplevel-value 'lexical-binding t) > to get the new setup or > (set-default-toplevel-value 'lexical-binding nil) > to continue with the old setup. That is the crucial point at which the change becomes incompatible and causes old files to break. I suggest we make this process smoother by giving users a warning on loading a file that fails to specify `lexical-binding' locally. If `warn-unset-lexical-bindng' is t (which would be the default), those warnings would be issued. If it is nil, there would be no warning. Meanwhile, the default value of `lexical-binding' would control the behavior of variable binding when the file does not specify that, just as now. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#74145; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 74145) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Feb 2025 12:03:00 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Feb 20 07:02:59 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33465 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tl5Gd-0000JF-IN for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 20 Feb 2025 07:02:59 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:50324) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1tl5Gb-0000Ik-Rd for 74145 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 20 Feb 2025 07:02:58 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1tl5GW-0004EO-7q; Thu, 20 Feb 2025 07:02:52 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=FvYHx8dX+pG9i35n9GJy4TXMqoh7D4xSJRJLLoV9BYI=; b=JSpLLGFa2sKI dGiwPqD9PArAoexi5P5PQymTIqGLoz1wZjSk/rYFZ892YJtCPsmOSDbgXsdCPalpI038JZCQvNVN+ 6QkZKG757mmnZLiURrhPhKggSMYcoFY2juLSznKzb+2sCvHerV+g1VFwcIbvV9Q+CJicbkJ9rVsQm rdX71OYhYuerQVyuRIhPjHsMPoGgsta6xY32VTafCoKRaD+M2rnFWNrerV7vZJpL9DB7eOOE1+B// oueH9un1OFs9WjhTHASxh2B41zys6o7pI3QQsBCHJMu+GBHoQ+yM9RbcZxzRSUBd4K1Lcday11e9s 3NvCnm6ZPHYknoUycR+IxQ==; Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1tl5GU-0005Y6-3b; Thu, 20 Feb 2025 07:02:51 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> To: dancol <dancol@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <e353a1b0d6589f37a0135d636c5a5134@HIDDEN> (message from dancol on Mon, 17 Feb 2025 04:15:51 -0500) Subject: Re: bug#74145: 31.0.50; Default lexical-binding to t References: <jwv4j4sat2i.fsf@HIDDEN> <jwvv7tc5v61.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <E1tjoPW-0004ii-Uo@HIDDEN> <e353a1b0d6589f37a0135d636c5a5134@HIDDEN> Message-Id: <E1tl5GU-0005Y6-3b@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2025 07:02:50 -0500 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 74145 Cc: 74145 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Reply-To: rms@HIDDEN Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > One always looks forward to reaching the end of a series of changes > > planned to reach an intended destination. But if we want to do a good > > job for the users, we must not rush them. > It's been many years now. Everyone has had enough time to adapt to > lexical-binding. A smooth and painless transition calls for giving users time, but we need to give them something else too. It also calls for intermediate steps that will remind users to update, to remind them to update old code _before_ it breaks. For instance, we could set up a warning (which the user can deactiviate if perse wishes) for files that don't explicitly specify a value for lexical-binding. That warning will help fix their files to be proof against future change in how that works. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#74145; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 74145) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Feb 2025 06:44:25 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Feb 20 01:44:25 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58571 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tl0IK-00088Y-HQ for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 20 Feb 2025 01:44:25 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:47412) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1tl0II-00087s-Ni for 74145 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 20 Feb 2025 01:44:23 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1tl0IC-0007ZK-QP; Thu, 20 Feb 2025 01:44:16 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=lgKMDqO50TwD+7Zq68uYlFXAYt7+O9gED86wO7hMDfM=; b=HXurdLaqQXAD 30euURq+KQpRMVlJ4op0OOpjqMTw1twK+rHpjIAsfeaiFdNyfDgUwkrrUCoKROpsAJ4ECqF9m56wk sb6of2RBYCsG5YndZqR2n1RD59Hk8dMpSrTk9XZCo2JXGQdAv+XrV58eUi//y74qVW1nVva8D1IWg CTcnOamM4+vs99SfCQKIRo35qBpInCaNukmivTw/b16LbG0NULfYmAF+aKrnzkylj52UpLm+cv2kF sDVaaPM29DSZwIFNFDmKS7kVlvPv5AXqekji3+kQYFxpo8LKqfsxu9p3ohVN2qcwz+ie/YwD4wVGn JsJbA3d+pzwap6BKI9U4Iw==; Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2025 08:44:11 +0200 Message-Id: <861pvt5d50.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <jwvpljd7hkb.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> (message from Stefan Monnier on Wed, 19 Feb 2025 16:30:36 -0500) Subject: Re: bug#74145: 31.0.50; Default lexical-binding to t References: <jwv4j4sat2i.fsf@HIDDEN> <jwvv7tc5v61.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmmvT9fbnEsVFNZ21go2rBhcxmit7mYY+AVyadJfg1BZww@HIDDEN> <jwvzfijvt8a.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <867c5m6sck.fsf@HIDDEN> <jwv8qq2ugaz.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <86bjux6f4a.fsf@HIDDEN> <jwvpljd7hkb.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 74145 Cc: 74145 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, stefankangas@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> > Cc: stefankangas@HIDDEN, 74145 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2025 16:30:36 -0500 > > >> >> Pushed to `master`. > >> > Boom! Just like that. > >> Well, yes. It's harmless. > > Maybe so, but I think we should have explained why we disregarded > > objections and suggestions for slower movement forward. > > Which objections are you referring to? I said "objections and suggestions". I meant these: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2025-01/msg00531.html https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=74145#36 https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=74145#57 https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=74145#60 It's okay to note those and decide to go ahead anyway, but I think we should at least offer the courtesy of explaining why we did so. The people who wrote those messages are active participants in Emacs development, so IMNSHO they deserve to have such an explanation.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#74145; Package emacs.
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#74145: 31.0.50; Default lexical-binding to t
In-Reply-To: <86bjux6f4a.fsf@HIDDEN> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Wed, 19 Feb
2025 19:03:49 +0200")
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>> >> Pushed to `master`.
>> > Boom! Just like that.
>> Well, yes. It's harmless.
> Maybe so, but I think we should have explained why we disregarded
> objections and suggestions for slower movement forward.
Which objections are you referring to?
I feel like I'm missing something.
The patch I pushed does not change any of Emacs's behavior, like
changing the default to t (which is what the objections I've seen object
to). The only "objection" I've seen was Christopher's sarcasm
about our inability to make consequential decisions.
Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#74145; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 74145) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Feb 2025 17:04:04 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Feb 19 12:04:03 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50358 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tknUR-0003lS-8T for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Feb 2025 12:04:03 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:44328) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1tknUO-0003kQ-LR for 74145 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Feb 2025 12:04:01 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1tknUI-00059g-8k; Wed, 19 Feb 2025 12:03:54 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=d9p4H1cFu/di7pe/4jG6NAnaBWiPju3evbJBkXT/xR8=; b=sd9YKFzAWKVA eNO58j/RBQ9JWqgTBtJ78Mb5h/qKS651cyOxCUdWrPYZ4XO8nAZL7Iei3apmrG3OXmxgj1VmSWiTj zXEj/rqlGWndbe/Tw+Wmrn+xY6Xi+47Kc4JR3zcESLi8WZcbRsuh7Lj/I+i29vj3KI6PD37I3zs98 /Zjm6WtytwHATQbm+zaNe6ViXwqAdmikk+XMkq+J3UkDSpzsyP4unmtaeFYTOxJzwL3KFBayRcPHf fIu6FFuUac7V7dQ+GjTYlZDfLSTkE2rvOsIlZOUxMTErVPw3V98IwQ63s3plVmC5bXq9JXP4tbSW/ 7oB5qNsoNLUm9EZ8dOCvBA==; Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2025 19:03:49 +0200 Message-Id: <86bjux6f4a.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <jwv8qq2ugaz.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> (message from Stefan Monnier on Wed, 19 Feb 2025 10:04:41 -0500) Subject: Re: bug#74145: 31.0.50; Default lexical-binding to t References: <jwv4j4sat2i.fsf@HIDDEN> <jwvv7tc5v61.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmmvT9fbnEsVFNZ21go2rBhcxmit7mYY+AVyadJfg1BZww@HIDDEN> <jwvzfijvt8a.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <867c5m6sck.fsf@HIDDEN> <jwv8qq2ugaz.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 74145 Cc: 74145 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, stefankangas@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> > Cc: stefankangas@HIDDEN, 74145 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2025 10:04:41 -0500 > > >> Pushed to `master`. > > Boom! Just like that. > > Well, yes. It's harmless. Maybe so, but I think we should have explained why we disregarded objections and suggestions for slower movement forward.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#74145; Package emacs.
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#74145: 31.0.50; Default lexical-binding to t
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>> Pushed to `master`.
> Boom! Just like that.
Well, yes. It's harmless.
Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#74145; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 74145) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Feb 2025 12:18:15 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Feb 19 07:18:15 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44235 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tkj1q-0000JH-R9 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Feb 2025 07:18:15 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:44844) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1tkj1p-0000Ih-Dh for 74145 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Feb 2025 07:18:14 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1tkj1j-00074l-8K; Wed, 19 Feb 2025 07:18:07 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=vJocbirAzGw+epD/5l3pRvx2oUo9a9hxzym+UOhWJY4=; b=LSxz+4Ys2Ywk KYAncdIc0vt6eKquiws21ZvoIj8CRAXBJzGSyZFQ+S5fhp3TzZj42iKz0QGpMHUFONNTYmPQytH/z KmJFB2zAG1n9mzdYEVzApWQD41xlHYkpq1iqL5tteTMIZwljskZqteSxyzw0eRpI14/Edi/poVDmW KuRWxSFf9ejy8ckAg1f45ZXZFeLwZzgnUba9PtSi+ZETMDzs7VJEV9tBS1ulNDfTNjI0KKaJkyYfM UcwW8ZkpVihZWFwBJC5cjJLK43/WmZgw3ys6J5bte/dLuWRWOckSZPGpxkmYLqr4nXtTJ2SAmbuog dXFRPeqQnEG6H8SGvZgUtA==; Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2025 14:18:03 +0200 Message-Id: <867c5m6sck.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <jwvzfijvt8a.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> (bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN) Subject: Re: bug#74145: 31.0.50; Default lexical-binding to t References: <jwv4j4sat2i.fsf@HIDDEN> <jwvv7tc5v61.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <CADwFkmmvT9fbnEsVFNZ21go2rBhcxmit7mYY+AVyadJfg1BZww@HIDDEN> <jwvzfijvt8a.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 74145 Cc: 74145 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, stefankangas@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Cc: 74145 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2025 16:27:43 -0500 > From: Stefan Monnier via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, > the Swiss army knife of text editors" <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN> > > > Makes sense to me. > > Pushed to `master`. Boom! Just like that.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#74145; Package emacs.
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#74145: 31.0.50; Default lexical-binding to t
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> Makes sense to me.
Pushed to `master`.
Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#74145; Package emacs.
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Subject: Re: bug#74145: 31.0.50; Default lexical-binding to t
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
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Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:
>> Cc: dancol@HIDDEN, 74145 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>> From: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN>
>> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2025 13:59:13 -0500
>>
>> This change is unlikely to be very disruptive at this point. For
>> starters, users can easily just add this to any ELisp file that lacks it
>> and move on with their lives:
>>
>> -*- lexical-binding:nil -*-
>
> I thought we planned on displaying a warning for that?
We have discussed different warnings, so I'm not sure which exact
proposals are currently on the table. But I think we currently warn
only if the lexical-binding cookie is missing.
As Stefan Monnier has pointed out, one could also use this to change the
global value:
(set-default-toplevel-value 'lexical-binding nil)
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#74145; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 74145) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Feb 2025 20:30:05 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Feb 18 15:30:05 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34135 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tkUEG-0004d8-6S for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 18 Feb 2025 15:30:04 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:51164) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1tkUEC-0004bY-UT for 74145 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 18 Feb 2025 15:30:02 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1tkUE6-0004ch-8z; Tue, 18 Feb 2025 15:29:54 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=ttfmVF7t0nBjjVeYl+K1dqxZE76AQtkPOAbxABDsOvw=; b=d9KrhUVi7MRr vNeVaFbZYjsXoj5y1k1pgsfS6oVj7V/c4Ax7JJdqBce9MTkuYxlxkR67VHz2avB8XCuaq+wHgep6X 2mxY1teG3FC6zW7zY2oitA1swPZZDAB8iNAvbcPp8QhTH/Xa0yqKiP8NPNW9ez0QfH/QRMYrOEC0J /KiZS4QobpcLX5a3uBLfXgGPFWaWa7QVHyqHIUdoKLOjwSxcU9Wtg2rypG1aQ8JzX5w5qHQpJ3ptC nDfMZnnCti6BIkZkKmjzPPbZx1OYfNCc13vnkZFzT2kJ9fLOvPXf7kezioMUBpXzOjJX6uHfaOAT2 +UzZrQlF4zy+HpL96XPB+A==; Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2025 22:29:33 +0200 Message-Id: <86seob6loy.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <CADwFkm=Ut3zHy+u7vydJKdLG6cHY1N-XsQQeJqbDokUoat0UWA@HIDDEN> (message from Stefan Kangas on Tue, 18 Feb 2025 13:59:13 -0500) Subject: Re: bug#74145: 31.0.50; Default lexical-binding to t References: <jwv4j4sat2i.fsf@HIDDEN> <b6ef6a279042a3b1b3cc9bc0e795b699@HIDDEN> <87y0y3tqke.fsf@HIDDEN> <CADwFkm=Ut3zHy+u7vydJKdLG6cHY1N-XsQQeJqbDokUoat0UWA@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 74145 Cc: psainty@HIDDEN, dancol@HIDDEN, 74145 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, visuweshm@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Cc: dancol@HIDDEN, 74145 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > From: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN> > Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2025 13:59:13 -0500 > > This change is unlikely to be very disruptive at this point. For > starters, users can easily just add this to any ELisp file that lacks it > and move on with their lives: > > -*- lexical-binding:nil -*- I thought we planned on displaying a warning for that? > What's more, and this is from my personal experience of converting > hundreds of .el files (see git log), most files will usually run just > fine under lexbind, without any changes. I expect that user init files > will typically fall into this category. I actually expect the contrary, because user init files are in many cases not regularly maintained and cleaned up like our Lisp sources are. I won't be surprised if there are portions of our init files which we haven't looked at for decades, because they "just work".
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#74145; Package emacs.
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#74145: 31.0.50; Default lexical-binding to t
In-Reply-To: <86zfij6msc.fsf@HIDDEN> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 18 Feb
2025 22:05:55 +0200")
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> They definitely might not understand the differences between the two
> flavors well enough to know what to expect. For example, warnings
> from the byte compiler about "unused lexical variable" might be
> extremely puzzling if those differences are not well understood,
> because to someone who is used to dynamic binding, the code looks
> 100% legit.
That's what the doc tries to explain:
A warning about an unused variable may be a good hint that the
variable was intended to be dynamically scoped (because it is
actually used, but in another function), but it may also be an
indication that the variable is simply really not used and could
simply be removed. So you need to find out which case it is, and
based on that, either add a @code{defvar} or remove the variable
altogether. If removal is not possible or not desirable (typically
because it is a formal argument and that we cannot or don't want to
change all the callers), you can also add a leading underscore to
the variable's name to indicate to the compiler that this is
a variable known not to be used.)
- Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#74145; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 74145) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Feb 2025 20:06:15 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Feb 18 15:06:15 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33856 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tkTrC-0002Dr-FB for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 18 Feb 2025 15:06:14 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:59774) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1tkTr2-0002D2-2V for 74145 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 18 Feb 2025 15:06:12 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1tkTqv-00025E-LQ; Tue, 18 Feb 2025 15:05:57 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=CMjW7uyxSRsl64G+Hw3arzkvoRMGUNRh2u63uGah5sE=; b=a4jh78d8nnSG fyIAQ3ELFuMZ09ou+CCEfoneStcIfzMDCQQGPc44yGmLtAdr7qwDW6JCffLtJApyMpdxtqefQ6bow POYPtDbC8mQ/n6qj1VJny6qxE77gpXVFRAX3Aphh1k0MeMWvz3vCZBJv8wfow4Qj+znFYfQCDDM38 Ii0VjBrsyGg+BQCDeJ1cnItQuDhNCLg9LUX72GOUtDDJ3uVQMEiMbHl5CW1NeteucXjZEiilz3pzi nvNGaaRrgNbY07arBp61ZQyj0fxMstBl+yABmRdlMbPqQ3ieOEx2vLUzsyz6mGVSiYQeMkpWtw16N 9cLqn9nlvgGPNJ/634b1oA==; Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2025 22:05:55 +0200 Message-Id: <86zfij6msc.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <jwvmsejyw6r.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> (message from Stefan Monnier on Tue, 18 Feb 2025 13:00:59 -0500) Subject: Re: bug#74145: 31.0.50; Default lexical-binding to t References: <jwv4j4sat2i.fsf@HIDDEN> <b6ef6a279042a3b1b3cc9bc0e795b699@HIDDEN> <87y0y3tqke.fsf@HIDDEN> <86tt8r8eh1.fsf@HIDDEN> <jwvzfijyz2h.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <86bjuz88ox.fsf@HIDDEN> <jwvmsejyw6r.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 74145 Cc: psainty@HIDDEN, dancol@HIDDEN, 74145 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, visuweshm@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> > Cc: visuweshm@HIDDEN, psainty@HIDDEN, dancol@HIDDEN, > 74145 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2025 13:00:59 -0500 > > > Yes, but the problem is not that there's no such place, the problem is > > with what it says. Basically, it says "use it and fix any problems > > you find". > > But at least it gives you the steps to take and presumably you (the > author of the code who presumably knows what's going on in that code) > should know how to fix the problems. > > Are you worried about those cases where the users don't actually know > what the code should do (although they may have written it themselves)? They definitely might not understand the differences between the two flavors well enough to know what to expect. For example, warnings from the byte compiler about "unused lexical variable" might be extremely puzzling if those differences are not well understood, because to someone who is used to dynamic binding, the code looks 100% legit.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#74145; Package emacs.
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Subject: Re: bug#74145: 31.0.50; Default lexical-binding to t
To: Visuwesh <visuweshm@HIDDEN>, Phil Sainty <psainty@HIDDEN>
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Visuwesh <visuweshm@HIDDEN> writes:
> [=E0=AE=AA=E0=AF=81=E0=AE=A4=E0=AE=A9=E0=AF=8D =E0=AE=AA=E0=AE=BF=E0=AE=
=AA=E0=AF=8D=E0=AE=B0=E0=AE=B5=E0=AE=B0=E0=AE=BF 19, 2025] Phil Sainty wrot=
e:
>
>> dancol wrote:
>>> It's been many years now. Everyone has had enough time to adapt to
>>> lexical-binding.
>>
>> I'm sure a majority of elisp programmers are aware of lexical-binding
>> by this point, and (in a great many cases) have adapted to it; but,
>> with the exception of those who are following current developments,
>> nobody has had ANY time to adapt to the idea that lexical-binding is
>> the DEFAULT. Users having time to adapt to THAT begins with the first
>> release that warns that it's going to happen, and we haven't had one
>> of those yet.
>>
>> Even the users who understand Emacs Lisp should have advance warning
>> of such a change so that they can make the necessary changes in
>> advance of that change coming into effect.
>>
>> Emacs is not only used by elisp programmers, though. Many users don't
>> understand elisp; will not understand dynamic-vs-lexical binding; and
>> will not know why the libraries they have been using for many years
>> suddenly don't work properly.
>>
>> Those users should be informed that they need to change something
>> before it has a chance to break things, so this should be sign-posted
>> for a long time in advance of the actual change, so that users really
>> do have time to adapt.
>
> +1. It is also a bit time consuming to change code to follow lexical
> binding and AFAIU from reading the list, there is no straightforward way
> to do so.
This change is unlikely to be very disruptive at this point. For
starters, users can easily just add this to any ELisp file that lacks it
and move on with their lives:
-*- lexical-binding:nil -*-
This is a trivial exercise for an Emacs user of almost any skill level.
We could consider providing Emacs commands and/or awk scripts to make
this even easier, but I'm not convinced that we even need that. It
can't hurt, I suppose.
What's more, and this is from my personal experience of converting
hundreds of .el files (see git log), most files will usually run just
fine under lexbind, without any changes. I expect that user init files
will typically fall into this category.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#74145; Package emacs.
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Subject: Re: bug#74145: 31.0.50; Default lexical-binding to t
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> Yes, but the problem is not that there's no such place, the problem is
> with what it says. Basically, it says "use it and fix any problems
> you find".
But at least it gives you the steps to take and presumably you (the
author of the code who presumably knows what's going on in that code)
should know how to fix the problems.
Are you worried about those cases where the users don't actually know
what the code should do (although they may have written it themselves)?
Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#74145; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 74145) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Feb 2025 17:27:41 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Feb 18 12:27:41 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60496 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tkRNl-0001cx-0Y for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 18 Feb 2025 12:27:41 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:60552) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1tkRNi-0001cH-Ve for 74145 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 18 Feb 2025 12:27:39 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1tkRNa-0000jN-46; Tue, 18 Feb 2025 12:27:30 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=pQFlJLVF3lw+em4CcWH+zn17fWvWaYmyJsDkRLozpQ8=; b=fCXq6dG/1rnw HFrHG+a6wbAaRc4W8LdEBx8wI1ZzjyLJGyaX9v1M66IaG736Q+5NIbMnGyInwm+EwLF1Pgs1G/4P6 +yr18+Hszjifa9W9C+BkDIetV/GiilarIDEjjf97hkbYe8jV4/G2JKH++UtgHyB8KBpVrV1e5atUO Xkna3xJWU0zXTLzfLPlgwNrz6vLJOzMnmex4RlUa8Kuz4VjjQKH5WtugoHHb2Ygdb15SefinHKnJU /M0Zc9D+DDHuD0zahxk/F7sGGFf0dGs1v5k1oIwgHUZ+aeMBprvXUKkJZasRlApwOIOxw97ZPknPt 99vh4HNz7geiAErHEzGRkA==; Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2025 19:27:26 +0200 Message-Id: <86bjuz88ox.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <jwvzfijyz2h.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> (message from Stefan Monnier on Tue, 18 Feb 2025 11:53:45 -0500) Subject: Re: bug#74145: 31.0.50; Default lexical-binding to t References: <jwv4j4sat2i.fsf@HIDDEN> <b6ef6a279042a3b1b3cc9bc0e795b699@HIDDEN> <87y0y3tqke.fsf@HIDDEN> <86tt8r8eh1.fsf@HIDDEN> <jwvzfijyz2h.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 74145 Cc: psainty@HIDDEN, dancol@HIDDEN, 74145 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, visuweshm@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> > Cc: Visuwesh <visuweshm@HIDDEN>, psainty@HIDDEN, > dancol@HIDDEN, 74145 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2025 11:53:45 -0500 > > >> +1. It is also a bit time consuming to change code to follow lexical > >> binding and AFAIU from reading the list, there is no straightforward way > >> to do so. Despite that, I hope there could be some addition to the > >> manual to outline the rough pathway one may follow. > > > > I asked about that, and got the answer that it was impossible. > > This said, we do have > > @node Converting to Lexical Binding > @subsection Converting to Lexical Binding > > in `variables.texi`. Yes, but the problem is not that there's no such place, the problem is with what it says. Basically, it says "use it and fix any problems you find" (and yes, I know that every summary comes with a simplification that sometimes does injustice to the original text).
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Subject: Re: bug#74145: 31.0.50; Default lexical-binding to t
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>> +1. It is also a bit time consuming to change code to follow lexical
>> binding and AFAIU from reading the list, there is no straightforward way
>> to do so. Despite that, I hope there could be some addition to the
>> manual to outline the rough pathway one may follow.
>
> I asked about that, and got the answer that it was impossible.
This said, we do have
@node Converting to Lexical Binding
@subsection Converting to Lexical Binding
in `variables.texi`.
Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#74145; Package emacs.
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From: Visuwesh <visuweshm@HIDDEN>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#74145: 31.0.50; Default lexical-binding to t
In-Reply-To: <86tt8r8eh1.fsf@HIDDEN>
References: <jwv4j4sat2i.fsf@HIDDEN>
<b6ef6a279042a3b1b3cc9bc0e795b699@HIDDEN>
<87y0y3tqke.fsf@HIDDEN> <86tt8r8eh1.fsf@HIDDEN>
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2025 21:37:19 +0530
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Content preview: [செவ்வாய் பிப்ரவரி 18, 2025]
Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Cc: dancol@HIDDEN, 74145 <at> debbugs.gnu.org >> From:
Visuwesh >> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2025 17:25:45 +0530 >> >> +1. It is also a
bit time consuming to change code to follow lexical >> binding and A [...]
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Cc: psainty@HIDDEN, dancol@HIDDEN, 74145 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
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Content preview: [செவ்வாய் பிப்ரவரி 18, 2025]
Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Cc: dancol@HIDDEN, 74145 <at> debbugs.gnu.org >> From:
Visuwesh >> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2025 17:25:45 +0530 >> >> +1. It is also a
bit time consuming to change code to follow lexical >> binding and A [...]
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[=E0=AE=9A=E0=AF=86=E0=AE=B5=E0=AF=8D=E0=AE=B5=E0=AE=BE=E0=AE=AF=E0=AF=8D =
=E0=AE=AA=E0=AE=BF=E0=AE=AA=E0=AF=8D=E0=AE=B0=E0=AE=B5=E0=AE=B0=E0=AE=BF 18=
, 2025] Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> Cc: dancol@HIDDEN, 74145 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>> From: Visuwesh <visuweshm@HIDDEN>
>> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2025 17:25:45 +0530
>>=20
>> +1. It is also a bit time consuming to change code to follow lexical
>> binding and AFAIU from reading the list, there is no straightforward way
>> to do so. Despite that, I hope there could be some addition to the
>> manual to outline the rough pathway one may follow.
>
> I asked about that, and got the answer that it was impossible.
>
>> If not possible, then at least some tricks or trips to ensure that
>> one has successfully changed the code to follow lexical binding for
>> the most part.
>
> I think I got the same answer to that, too.
Yes, I remember reading these answers. IMO "put the lexical-binding
cookie and try to compile" is at least a starter, having recently
followed it.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#74145; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 74145) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Feb 2025 15:22:57 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Feb 18 10:22:57 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59109 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tkPR3-0007R7-DP for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 18 Feb 2025 10:22:57 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:49452) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1tkPQw-0007QI-V4 for 74145 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 18 Feb 2025 10:22:54 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1tkPQm-0007Hr-0I; Tue, 18 Feb 2025 10:22:40 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=ueZtv4L0B95nqR4CE80e85cR8wxee2D01F/6CCfjvYk=; b=IT+EGH2OIm+W hyBiPhuJfjOMngY2Iq4HvAWc6/uiVh9C6tctfQ4Z/ugi1YgX3K9pLkpu/gOyT7Ywy4HfbTZ8MdMSF ujYAZTZvT1ORWsrUE8KLu1shbgTEpxjHbcyRnSJ2dNNV++p5wAO5KhOiRwfTHJx9Vv3VOSiekWyhJ dcmuMAtuKjFIn26vEo9DVSfLH6U1Ya7HOWvWB+O1oz7jvLnmzh+0A6YdfP6YircOydINN42Ks4/3E MR7l8ie3GBrXCd+3WZ3E88JlxNM1Ax0sHA7/x9JmWhc6Jre4BJUaQeaj+F+OdlBzBfmjxiVFZQxLx TkV1bc3td3Gvu5DrylVgww==; Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2025 17:22:34 +0200 Message-Id: <86tt8r8eh1.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Visuwesh <visuweshm@HIDDEN>, Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <87y0y3tqke.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Visuwesh on Tue, 18 Feb 2025 17:25:45 +0530) Subject: Re: bug#74145: 31.0.50; Default lexical-binding to t References: <jwv4j4sat2i.fsf@HIDDEN> <b6ef6a279042a3b1b3cc9bc0e795b699@HIDDEN> <87y0y3tqke.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 74145 Cc: psainty@HIDDEN, dancol@HIDDEN, 74145 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Cc: dancol@HIDDEN, 74145 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > From: Visuwesh <visuweshm@HIDDEN> > Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2025 17:25:45 +0530 > > +1. It is also a bit time consuming to change code to follow lexical > binding and AFAIU from reading the list, there is no straightforward way > to do so. Despite that, I hope there could be some addition to the > manual to outline the rough pathway one may follow. I asked about that, and got the answer that it was impossible. > If not possible, then at least some tricks or trips to ensure that > one has successfully changed the code to follow lexical binding for > the most part. I think I got the same answer to that, too.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#74145; Package emacs.
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Default lexical-binding to t > > [=E0=AE=AA=E0=AF=81=E0=AE=A4=E0=AE=A9=E0=AF=8D =E0=AE=AA=E0=AE=BF=E0=AE= =AA=E0=AF=8D=E0=AE=B0=E0=AE=B5=E0=AE=B0=E0=AE=BF 19, 2025] Phil Sainty wrot= e: >=20 > > dancol wrote: > >> It's been many years now=2E Everyone has had enough time to adapt to > >> lexical-binding=2E > > > > I'm sure a majority of elisp programmers are aware of lexical-binding > > by this point, and (in a great many cases) have adapted to it; but, > > with the exception of those who are following current developments, > > nobody has had ANY time to adapt to the idea that lexical-binding is > > the DEFAULT=2E Users having time to adapt to THAT begins with the fir= st > > release that warns that it's going to happen, and we haven't had one > > of those yet=2E > > > > Even the users who understand Emacs Lisp should have advance warning > > of such a change so that they can make the necessary changes in > > advance of that change coming into effect=2E > > > > Emacs is not only used by elisp programmers, though=2E Many users don= 't > > understand elisp; will not understand dynamic-vs-lexical binding; and > > will not know why the libraries they have been using for many years > > suddenly don't work properly=2E > > > > Those users should be informed that they need to change something > > before it has a chance to break things, so this should be sign-posted > > for a long time in advance of the actual change, so that users really > > do have time to adapt=2E >=20 > +1=2E It is also a bit time consuming to change code to follow lexical > binding and AFAIU from reading the list, there is no straightforward way > to do so=2E =20 Not taking the time to do the change is no excuse=2E Perhaps they can use an older emacs release so that they continue what they were doing, and=20 concurrently doing the changes=2E > Despite that, I hope there could be some addition to the > manual to outline the rough pathway one may follow=2E If not possible, > then at least some tricks or trips to ensure that one has successfully > changed the code to follow lexical binding for the most part=2E Any bug= s > hidden would be uncovered soon enough with regular usage of the > converted code=2E >=20 >=20 >=20 >
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#74145; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 74145) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Feb 2025 11:55:59 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Feb 18 06:55:59 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55761 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tkMCk-0007OB-L3 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 18 Feb 2025 06:55:59 -0500 Received: from mail-pl1-x641.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::641]:45284) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <visuweshm@HIDDEN>) id 1tkMCh-0007NW-8z for 74145 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 18 Feb 2025 06:55:56 -0500 Received: by mail-pl1-x641.google.com with SMTP id d9443c01a7336-220c8f38febso96635235ad.2 for <74145 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 18 Feb 2025 03:55:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1739879749; x=1740484549; darn=debbugs.gnu.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date :references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=TDNIsnQdVW0b4Lw/+i5FwqI9ooUWK+LCJ3FJc/Mquyk=; b=Didy7udLHOEK5UMQ0HoWKBz10OY+DblH5V5irnpYqSOiqQf377ZBdHY2v5nTg1H58A G7tUrjPdHutBN90QJ10QemAcwBKxmndAgT//FP7VxPfJUlURSWbtBYd0Qhflios48Tp2 ZpRbuK3bYNZAGnbLEvRC4PHTR7JRXXLHZI2EYMxh93yxjwDlBB7LubIQQl1GC6twYL7h CFF8xDDjWGUm5DIzzTGLyROvCxuKGYsdKOH+/14EJCkEzUZkx4xA56zTADNs3u4Sh/aX LVP/w+IRAjlTaP80Vopb2ver6Knh2Mp0/vbw5jUr7Irsu2cyQ/h30KIjGGfhUe1IaX61 9u5w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1739879749; x=1740484549; h=content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date :references:in-reply-to:subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from :to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=TDNIsnQdVW0b4Lw/+i5FwqI9ooUWK+LCJ3FJc/Mquyk=; b=qS2rnZxnqEgbqhepJKNtoxpFRZ/pg2r5E+mL+YoS3TmS75mvgNrJjuEAhAWbV05J6M 3fnCj4rB/aIp/3TybwuGYSBbyoDm5vBdjuNhlEbj4S9oxaK43fHtoAIjkEkdL/zEu8B2 DEt8bzd063rMZF/rLo8zYQkDl3EgyMhiagDUMq+o89vWSG09dSmSNcj85ovUvRLGW9fJ +k3arqYCW4VXmkR8b+2YLYm0QZuURuRgID1m/hheKkB6idzV9SnW7+37Zt5qwEMS5QsN +HyjCKrqQrx1Qn6SKKXJCiYmiZZ28AmOJ7KXEFRWfk/NzzVej4Q5SO95aOOIUXHCenYZ VUoQ== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCWc+7ibtVxHITf9gDmYVdv3jbWBVwqTsp80cpYC0l/YGivzBhfRcVENGPcm7yB2BkaSO4pLsg==@debbugs.gnu.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxPSjVhgg2SckwiVXHeBpzQ8SW6rm/7pK9zqI5VeZFeR3l3gaWt GZZZejxH1R3uJNoMPYwy+uiFEuvGHBnW4l1Ub/ybNcmmB4okYtCw X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncv6M+VE2dhc7Fov8bscHkmy/rTHtbanp9IiM7rnBeYzcwRNjhLN+QKutqn7Z+c LiXPO9VhnE+RZxSJ+fjayepi/cQZeGrd+7OWUIATGqBCfjNN/EiKSf+6GexgC+IAm5P7I0CT5ym aJRipMU8ILTzuS/mOfmdD6oW0V6953bjMfkSER17lMSVhD32sXSM8myXV5SIGMS1/3KfSMY9ayq 07Sk6sGWWjlW7tQFFiRsq3ESCu+g0hyGvEoLplNjn8WJgdpiklY9Ar3pxAO/yAi/G9e9NKdNwln EiVOnPfZ9aCa X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IE52+t3tfcZym1H3dFL/W+2sUPSj4r+DWF7Xhun+ebi2AzvFUM63GYq2ESshwqprVkX0/VG9Q== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:d507:b0:21f:14c1:d58e with SMTP id d9443c01a7336-22103efa6eemr207005735ad.1.1739879748901; Tue, 18 Feb 2025 03:55:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([115.240.90.130]) by smtp.gmail.com with UTF8SMTPSA id d9443c01a7336-220d55866f9sm86452645ad.230.2025.02.18.03.55.47 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 18 Feb 2025 03:55:48 -0800 (PST) From: Visuwesh <visuweshm@HIDDEN> To: Phil Sainty <psainty@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#74145: 31.0.50; Default lexical-binding to t In-Reply-To: <b6ef6a279042a3b1b3cc9bc0e795b699@HIDDEN> References: <jwv4j4sat2i.fsf@HIDDEN> <b6ef6a279042a3b1b3cc9bc0e795b699@HIDDEN> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2025 17:25:45 +0530 Message-ID: <87y0y3tqke.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 74145 Cc: dancol@HIDDEN, 74145 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) [=E0=AE=AA=E0=AF=81=E0=AE=A4=E0=AE=A9=E0=AF=8D =E0=AE=AA=E0=AE=BF=E0=AE=AA= =E0=AF=8D=E0=AE=B0=E0=AE=B5=E0=AE=B0=E0=AE=BF 19, 2025] Phil Sainty wrote: > dancol wrote: >> It's been many years now. Everyone has had enough time to adapt to >> lexical-binding. > > I'm sure a majority of elisp programmers are aware of lexical-binding > by this point, and (in a great many cases) have adapted to it; but, > with the exception of those who are following current developments, > nobody has had ANY time to adapt to the idea that lexical-binding is > the DEFAULT. Users having time to adapt to THAT begins with the first > release that warns that it's going to happen, and we haven't had one > of those yet. > > Even the users who understand Emacs Lisp should have advance warning > of such a change so that they can make the necessary changes in > advance of that change coming into effect. > > Emacs is not only used by elisp programmers, though. Many users don't > understand elisp; will not understand dynamic-vs-lexical binding; and > will not know why the libraries they have been using for many years > suddenly don't work properly. > > Those users should be informed that they need to change something > before it has a chance to break things, so this should be sign-posted > for a long time in advance of the actual change, so that users really > do have time to adapt. +1. It is also a bit time consuming to change code to follow lexical binding and AFAIU from reading the list, there is no straightforward way to do so. Despite that, I hope there could be some addition to the manual to outline the rough pathway one may follow. If not possible, then at least some tricks or trips to ensure that one has successfully changed the code to follow lexical binding for the most part. Any bugs hidden would be uncovered soon enough with regular usage of the converted code.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#74145; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 74145) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Feb 2025 11:01:18 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Feb 18 06:01:18 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55340 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tkLLp-00025R-QD for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 18 Feb 2025 06:01:18 -0500 Received: from smtp-4.orcon.net.nz ([60.234.4.59]:42887) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <psainty@HIDDEN>) id 1tkLLn-00024q-5n for 74145 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 18 Feb 2025 06:01:16 -0500 Received: from [10.253.37.70] (port=38580 helo=webmail.orcon.net.nz) by smtp-4.orcon.net.nz with esmtpa (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <psainty@HIDDEN>) id 1tkLLi-0002ag-Tl; Wed, 19 Feb 2025 00:01:11 +1300 Received: from ip-139-180-103-232.as55850.net ([139.180.103.232]) via [10.253.37.253] by webmail.orcon.net.nz with HTTP (HTTP/1.1 POST); Wed, 19 Feb 2025 00:01:10 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2025 00:01:10 +1300 From: Phil Sainty <psainty@HIDDEN> To: dancol@HIDDEN Subject: bug#74145: 31.0.50; Default lexical-binding to t Message-ID: <b6ef6a279042a3b1b3cc9bc0e795b699@HIDDEN> X-Sender: psainty@HIDDEN User-Agent: Orcon Webmail X-GeoIP: -- X-Spam_score: -2.9 X-Spam_score_int: -28 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 74145 Cc: 74145 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) dancol wrote: > It's been many years now. Everyone has had enough time to adapt to > lexical-binding. I'm sure a majority of elisp programmers are aware of lexical-binding by this point, and (in a great many cases) have adapted to it; but, with the exception of those who are following current developments, nobody has had ANY time to adapt to the idea that lexical-binding is the DEFAULT. Users having time to adapt to THAT begins with the first release that warns that it's going to happen, and we haven't had one of those yet. Even the users who understand Emacs Lisp should have advance warning of such a change so that they can make the necessary changes in advance of that change coming into effect. Emacs is not only used by elisp programmers, though. Many users don't understand elisp; will not understand dynamic-vs-lexical binding; and will not know why the libraries they have been using for many years suddenly don't work properly. Those users should be informed that they need to change something before it has a chance to break things, so this should be sign-posted for a long time in advance of the actual change, so that users really do have time to adapt. Consider users who are running Ubuntu 24.04 GNU/Linux as their OS (being a popular OS with long-term support). That OS release is supported for 5 years as standard, and it provides Emacs 29. So a lot of those users will be running Emacs 29 with dynamic binding as the default until 2029, and when they update their OS in 2029 and acquire, say, Emacs 31, it would be beneficial if their Emacs config wasn't suddenly broken on account of something they'd had no prior warning about. (There may or may not be other breaking changes, but IMHO this doesn't need to be one of them.) I'm not seeing a cost/benefit analysis in favour of making this change sooner. The risk of changing it sooner is that we cause some users pain by breaking things without warning, whereas (so far as I can see) the only benefit of making the change earlier would be that elisp authors could choose to stop including a file-local variable in their elisp files -- something those authors are fully-aware they need to do (and which is quite probably being done for them automatically via autoinsert.el or similar). So I see no notable benefit to making this change in a hurry, but I do see a cost. I think we're contrasting an extremely minor convenience for elisp authors against a real inconvenience for any users who get affected by it. My feeling is that Emacs 30 should start issuing warnings, which could be made more severe in Emacs 31, and that the change itself shouldn't happen earlier than 2029 to align with some of the popular OS support cycles. I don't understand why we'd want to enact such a significant change without at least that much warning, given how little we gain from it. -Phil
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#74145; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 74145) by debbugs.gnu.org; 17 Feb 2025 09:16:03 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Feb 17 04:16:03 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42728 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tjxER-0007qA-0m for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 17 Feb 2025 04:16:03 -0500 Received: from dancol.org ([2600:3c01:e000:3d8::1]:48738) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <dancol@HIDDEN>) id 1tjxEO-0007pU-PM for 74145 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 17 Feb 2025 04:16:01 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dancol.org; s=x; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:Message-ID:References: In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Date:MIME-Version:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=g1ZSZ8edqySftndGDls3b1RaF8Q7N5Qnr56zkLnJpu0=; b=NRAJA9R0bQxpqFh9pA+3D6pVkk Op5CHWvb5oMbb6eRFUbzZeUqCT9vRE4G2P56MHOQXeqemTZph8kiPufRhXSrBU0pAHjaTCNFfD5CL qHTCYslVjEOgbcAa3C9aiXsIvuIzWieAP4f3BgknnZsdrbh/gLqX19gCJsUR9CIb7FBp0B2RCu03/ k+YPq7rW5S8FnWNUJ10c5OkYww0USAvV6szu0287t1FQt6Ge4nJXMx21zdr2sBZ8dqde2h6VVlE6s jKe7Nbvors21qfeKOhLlLBkS1Y9xRYasTP/evekb/QST/8In2dtF38dB53hnDt5kqyWGj+hFfca8x bBhp15Pg==; Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36516 helo=dancol.org) by dancol.org with esmtpa (Exim 4.96) (envelope-from <dancol@HIDDEN>) id 1tjxEF-0007ZD-3D; Mon, 17 Feb 2025 04:15:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2025 04:15:51 -0500 From: dancol <dancol@HIDDEN> To: rms@HIDDEN Subject: Re: bug#74145: 31.0.50; Default lexical-binding to t In-Reply-To: <E1tjoPW-0004ii-Uo@HIDDEN> References: <jwv4j4sat2i.fsf@HIDDEN> <jwvv7tc5v61.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> <E1tjoPW-0004ii-Uo@HIDDEN> Message-ID: <e353a1b0d6589f37a0135d636c5a5134@HIDDEN> X-Sender: dancol@HIDDEN Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 74145 Cc: 74145 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) On 2025-02-16 18:50, Richard Stallman wrote: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > Someone else wrote: > > > > I believe the time has come to change the default dialect. > > > I attached a suggested patch to do that. > > Certainly not! That would be too abrupt. > > By contrast, your proposed change > > > OK, before we change the default, I propose the patch below, which > > should not change the behavior at all, but allows users to > > > (set-default-toplevel-value 'lexical-binding t) > > is a step along a reasonable path. It won't impose anything on anyone > immediately, but it will encourage users to try this out and report > problems. > > One always looks forward to reaching the end of a series of changes > planned to reach an intended destination. But if we want to do a good > job for the users, we must not rush them. It's been many years now. Everyone has had enough time to adapt to lexical-binding.
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#74145: 31.0.50; Default lexical-binding to t
In-Reply-To: <E1tjoPW-0004ii-Uo@HIDDEN> (Richard Stallman's message
of "Sun, 16 Feb 2025 18:50:54 -0500")
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> > > I believe the time has come to change the default dialect.
> > > I attached a suggested patch to do that.
>
> Certainly not! That would be too abrupt.
> By contrast, your proposed change
>
> > OK, before we change the default, I propose the patch below, which
> > should not change the behavior at all, but allows users to
>
> > (set-default-toplevel-value 'lexical-binding t)
>
> is a step along a reasonable path. It won't impose anything on anyone
> immediately, but it will encourage users to try this out and report
> problems.
The difference between the two, for users, is whether they need
(set-default-toplevel-value 'lexical-binding t)
to get the new setup or
(set-default-toplevel-value 'lexical-binding nil)
to continue with the old setup.
It's a small enough difference that I don't think it justifies
describing one as "reasonable path" and the other as "too abrupt".
Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#74145; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 74145) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Feb 2025 23:51:17 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Feb 16 18:51:17 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39116 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tjoPs-0008DF-7X for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 16 Feb 2025 18:51:17 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:57582) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1tjoPl-0008CK-4m for 74145 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 16 Feb 2025 18:51:13 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1tjoPf-0000fL-HL; Sun, 16 Feb 2025 18:51:03 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=A/qgZWIcPICsDTlU84l5yTI72/uSlm+FQRJ8J8FAb1w=; b=jDeSbZJBd3eg Geb6KzuXOD3KkWKb5yP6UJcQQcQixnPe+IxhSA4niSQbp73spgJKeg/RsVXO7kQ2XADVInhhJlyfV PGtQBgP3jmtodhiW2Rx9/6fw3H7Yc4PhGvUhgPdpimxs4rqSiFaz7b0z71PYuf2bDZrwnW2LjUhHE QFat1YPTHgO+QZTH+cUzbWdCGrawgZeu1WW/9Lg6rQMy8g+FRGBF8QxNiFtmAKsD0zUAe3bzQz8CC Tpf6w2NJ0f6NgP1SCw3bl73TsqMMMSv4Lg9s4S0VjJsXrNGsZN+rJ6i9ukabkRxEJxw6a3WAEluJI hWEe/MLFi0dUbn/Y55mNiw==; Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1tjoPW-0004ii-Uo; Sun, 16 Feb 2025 18:50:54 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <jwvv7tc5v61.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> (bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN) Subject: Re: bug#74145: 31.0.50; Default lexical-binding to t References: <jwv4j4sat2i.fsf@HIDDEN> <jwvv7tc5v61.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> Message-Id: <E1tjoPW-0004ii-Uo@HIDDEN> Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2025 18:50:54 -0500 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 74145 Cc: 74145 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Reply-To: rms@HIDDEN Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] Someone else wrote: > > I believe the time has come to change the default dialect. > > I attached a suggested patch to do that. Certainly not! That would be too abrupt. By contrast, your proposed change > OK, before we change the default, I propose the patch below, which > should not change the behavior at all, but allows users to > (set-default-toplevel-value 'lexical-binding t) is a step along a reasonable path. It won't impose anything on anyone immediately, but it will encourage users to try this out and report problems. One always looks forward to reaching the end of a series of changes planned to reach an intended destination. But if we want to do a good job for the users, we must not rush them. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)
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bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#74145; Package emacs.
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Default lexical-binding to t > > > I believe the time has come to change the default dialect=2E > > I attached a suggested patch to do that=2E >=20 > OK, before we change the default, I propose the patch below, which > should not change the behavior at all, but allows users to >=20 > (set-default-toplevel-value 'lexical-binding t) >=20 > IOW=2E It does "everything" the previous patch did except actually chan= ge > the default=2E The remaining step is to change the single line that set= s > the default (currently to nil, then to t) and update the docs=2E >=20 > Any objection? > Stefan ;; --------------------------------------------------------------- In the swirling chaos of modern existence, we find ourselves shackled=20 by an insidious disease - the inability to truly transform=2E Claiming to do everything except actually change the default, is a perfect=20 encapsulation of this malaise=2E It=E2=80=99s a farce wrapped in the prete= nse=20 of progress, a cruel joke played on the hopeful souls who dare to believe= =20 that anything can be different=2E =20
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: 74145 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#74145: 31.0.50; Default lexical-binding to t
In-Reply-To: <jwv4j4sat2i.fsf@HIDDEN> (Stefan Monnier's message of
"Thu, 31 Oct 2024 16:57:57 -0400")
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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2025 11:53:34 -0500
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--=-=-=
Content-Type: text/plain
> I believe the time has come to change the default dialect.
> I attached a suggested patch to do that.
OK, before we change the default, I propose the patch below, which
should not change the behavior at all, but allows users to
(set-default-toplevel-value 'lexical-binding t)
IOW. It does "everything" the previous patch did except actually change
the default. The remaining step is to change the single line that sets
the default (currently to nil, then to t) and update the docs.
Any objection?
Stefan
--=-=-=
Content-Type: text/x-diff
Content-Disposition: inline; filename=lexical-binding.patch
diff --git a/doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi b/doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi
index b041678d8c8..1d60c6b0f88 100644
--- a/doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi
+++ b/doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi
@@ -3845,7 +3845,7 @@ Lexical vs Dynamic Binding Example
If we use dynamic binding instead, the behavior is different:
@example
-;;; -*- lexical-binding: nil -*-
+(defvar x) ;; Use dynamic binding for 'x'.
(setq x 0)
@@ -3867,8 +3867,9 @@ Lexical vs Dynamic Binding Example
@code{x}, since its binding is below the one from our @code{let}
expression in the stack of bindings.
-(Some variables are also ``special'', and they are always dynamically
-bound even when @code{lexical-binding} is @code{t}. @xref{defvar, ,
+(The @code{defvar} declaration above is said to make the variable
+``special'', which causes it to obey the dynamic binding rules instead of
+the default binding rules. @xref{defvar, ,
Initializing a Variable with @code{defvar}}.)
@node if
diff --git a/doc/lispref/edebug.texi b/doc/lispref/edebug.texi
index e234db6fce5..15836591032 100644
--- a/doc/lispref/edebug.texi
+++ b/doc/lispref/edebug.texi
@@ -722,13 +722,6 @@ Edebug Eval
pretty-printed in a separate buffer.
@end table
-@cindex lexical binding (Edebug)
- Edebug supports evaluation of expressions containing references to
-lexically bound symbols created by the following constructs in
-@file{cl.el}: @code{lexical-let}, @code{macrolet}, and
-@code{symbol-macrolet}.
-@c FIXME? What about lexical-binding = t?
-
@node Eval List
@subsection Evaluation List Buffer
diff --git a/doc/lispref/variables.texi b/doc/lispref/variables.texi
index 89ccb8ea740..998a74d067a 100644
--- a/doc/lispref/variables.texi
+++ b/doc/lispref/variables.texi
@@ -285,7 +285,7 @@ Local Variables
@defspec letrec (bindings@dots{}) forms@dots{}
This special form is like @code{let*}, but all the variables are bound
before any of the local values are computed. The values are then
-assigned to the locally bound variables. This is only useful when
+assigned to the locally bound variables. This is useful only when
lexical binding is in effect, and you want to create closures that
refer to bindings that would otherwise not yet be in effect when using
@code{let*}.
@@ -351,7 +351,7 @@ Local Variables
done so that the value returned by the call is the value of @var{body}
itself, as is the case in the recursive call to @code{sum} above.
-@code{named-let} can only be used when lexical-binding is enabled.
+@code{named-let} can be used only when lexical-binding is enabled.
@xref{Lexical Binding}.
@end defspec
@@ -392,7 +392,7 @@ Void Variables
to evaluate the variable signals a @code{void-variable} error, instead
of returning a value.
- Under the optional lexical scoping rule, the value cell only holds
+ Under the optional lexical scoping rule, the value cell holds only
the variable's global value---the value outside of any lexical binding
construct. When a variable is lexically bound, the local value is
determined by the lexical environment; hence, variables can have local
@@ -710,8 +710,8 @@ Accessing Variables
The usual way to reference a variable is to write the symbol which
names it. @xref{Symbol Forms}.
- Occasionally, you may want to reference a variable which is only
-determined at run time. In that case, you cannot specify the variable
+ Occasionally, you may want to reference a variable which is determined
+only at run time. In that case, you cannot specify the variable
name in the text of the program. You can use the @code{symbol-value}
function to extract the value.
@@ -1991,8 +1991,8 @@ File Local Variables
@defvar permanently-enabled-local-variables
Some local variable settings will, by default, be heeded even if
-@code{enable-local-variables} is @code{nil}. By default, this is only
-the case for the @code{lexical-binding} local variable setting, but
+@code{enable-local-variables} is @code{nil}. By default, this is the
+case only for the @code{lexical-binding} local variable setting, but
this can be controlled by using this variable, which is a list of
symbols.
@end defvar
diff --git a/lisp/loadup.el b/lisp/loadup.el
index 98a47f2867f..ebd35291050 100644
--- a/lisp/loadup.el
+++ b/lisp/loadup.el
@@ -617,9 +617,9 @@ comp-subr-arities-h
(unwind-protect
(let ((tmp-dump-mode dump-mode)
(dump-mode nil)
- ;; Set `lexical-binding' to nil by default
+ ;; Set `lexical-binding' to its default value
;; in the dumped Emacs.
- (lexical-binding nil))
+ (lexical-binding (default-toplevel-value 'lexical-binding)))
(if (member tmp-dump-mode '("pdump" "pbootstrap"))
(dump-emacs-portable (expand-file-name output invocation-directory))
(dump-emacs output (if (eq system-type 'ms-dos)
diff --git a/src/lread.c b/src/lread.c
index 46c705e5c76..df1caaf5732 100644
--- a/src/lread.c
+++ b/src/lread.c
@@ -1720,8 +1720,11 @@ DEFUN ("load", Fload, Sload, 1, 5, 0,
}
else
{
- if (lisp_file_lexical_cookie (Qget_file_char) == Cookie_Lex)
- Fset (Qlexical_binding, Qt);
+ lexical_cookie_t lexc = lisp_file_lexical_cookie (Qget_file_char);
+ Fset (Qlexical_binding,
+ (lexc == Cookie_Lex ? Qt
+ : lexc == Cookie_Dyn ? Qnil
+ : Fdefault_toplevel_value (Qlexical_binding)));
if (! version || version >= 22)
readevalloop (Qget_file_char, &input, hist_file_name,
@@ -2606,8 +2609,11 @@ DEFUN ("eval-buffer", Feval_buffer, Seval_buffer, 0, 5, "",
specbind (Qstandard_output, tem);
record_unwind_protect_excursion ();
BUF_TEMP_SET_PT (XBUFFER (buf), BUF_BEGV (XBUFFER (buf)));
+ lexical_cookie_t lexc = lisp_file_lexical_cookie (buf);
specbind (Qlexical_binding,
- lisp_file_lexical_cookie (buf) == Cookie_Lex ? Qt : Qnil);
+ lexc == Cookie_Lex ? Qt
+ : lexc == Cookie_Dyn ? Qnil
+ : Fdefault_toplevel_value (Qlexical_binding));
BUF_TEMP_SET_PT (XBUFFER (buf), BUF_BEGV (XBUFFER (buf)));
readevalloop (buf, 0, filename,
!NILP (printflag), unibyte, Qnil, Qnil, Qnil);
--=-=-=--
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#74145; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 74145) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Dec 2024 04:12:27 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Dec 29 23:12:27 2024 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:56888 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tS78l-0007SN-9J for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 29 Dec 2024 23:12:27 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:35754) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1tS78j-0007SA-34 for 74145 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 29 Dec 2024 23:12:25 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1tS76X-0002ta-4I; Sun, 29 Dec 2024 23:10:09 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=6bUMm8gB8381aJQe2WAuoCzvGemCaf0Se/525p/KoVs=; b=cOhLFOIK7aYG CE0LDMUC9LrZouaEtPe0OHcKRut2aPuz6TuYs3OZLIVziTTcmDm4SfyACd7feZlhZnwjqy0L3foQ5 0SMPMz1aU1GAWs2tfzvAJQeZ+hfF62RdYIR2onPTXWcF0Umk/uhVt2/5nsWD+t0xUJFU8hZmpZY2P QjKMRQ4eLNRimsLDYB+wc1QSaCZDqZIhAzqWDZAxf9PmUDaovTG0kXKCMWJASv9onklLtd/Du48xg Xjmwred0H/VBsS490HeDot7ACVO5u2eA3GOjDZ2R8pD+WoC15vu8gfNNTRfdwYMiI/nBCoO9T7K1j gMWUwG7jczgRT7Vq4M1wug==; Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1tS76W-0006pi-Fm; Sun, 29 Dec 2024 23:10:08 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> To: Mattias =?iso-8859-1?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= <mattias.engdegard@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <F0363CED-9B81-4413-8022-AF1CCBED0EAF@HIDDEN> (message from Mattias =?iso-8859-1?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= on Sat, 28 Dec 2024 18:40:00 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#74145: 31.0.50; Default lexical-binding to t References: <jwv4j4sat2i.fsf@HIDDEN> <F0363CED-9B81-4413-8022-AF1CCBED0EAF@HIDDEN> Message-Id: <E1tS76W-0006pi-Fm@HIDDEN> Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2024 23:10:08 -0500 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 74145 Cc: 74145 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Reply-To: rms@HIDDEN Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > for the old dynamic-only dialect. When no declaration is present the > > -old dialect is used, but this may change in a future release. > > -The compiler will warn if no declaration is present. > > +new dialect is used. Support for the old dialect may be removed in > > +a future release. We should delete that last sentence. It would be a mistake to delete support for lexical-binding: nil, even 20 years from now. To convert a program from dynamic binding to lexical binding is not a trivial transformatoin -- it requires actually understanding the code. It would be bad judgment to require people to do that work for their old programs merely to simplify one small piece of the language. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#74145; Package emacs.
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[188.150.183.180]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 38308e7fff4ca-3045b069f0fsm29429151fa.84.2024.12.28.09.40.01 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 28 Dec 2024 09:40:01 -0800 (PST) From: =?utf-8?Q?Mattias_Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= <mattias.engdegard@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.15\)) Subject: bug#74145: 31.0.50; Default lexical-binding to t Message-Id: <F0363CED-9B81-4413-8022-AF1CCBED0EAF@HIDDEN> Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2024 18:40:00 +0100 To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.15) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 74145 Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, Andrea Corallo <acorallo@HIDDEN>, 74145 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > I believe the time has come to change the default dialect. Agreed, the sooner the better. (Sorry about the delay; I'm trying to = catch up.) The compilation warning about missing lexical-binding declaration is = still there which makes sense. Eventually it should be removed but it's = not urgent to plan for it now. The patch looks fine. Some very minor comments (that you can ignore): =20 > - The old dynamic-only Emacs Lisp dialect is still the default in = code > + The new lexically scoped Emacs Lisp dialect is now the default in = code Maybe do away with the 'new' and 'now' here -- I think the documentation = should describe Emacs as it is, and NEWS have the changes. > for the old dynamic-only dialect. When no declaration is present the > -old dialect is used, but this may change in a future release. > -The compiler will warn if no declaration is present. > +new dialect is used. Support for the old dialect may be removed in > +a future release. Well, the compiler still warns, as it should, so this isn't quite = accurate. > =20 > +** 'lexical-binding' now defaults to t. > +The default ELisp dialect is now the lexically scoped dialect. > +Any code which has not yet been adapted should either be > +adapted or set 'lexical-binding' to nil explicitly. Maybe mention that the cookie warning is still there?
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#74145; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 74145) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Nov 2024 05:36:26 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Nov 04 00:36:26 2024 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37409 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1t7plK-0004nJ-0f for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 04 Nov 2024 00:36:26 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:59672) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1t7plH-0004n9-AQ for 74145 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 04 Nov 2024 00:36:24 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1t7pj3-0001y2-O5; Mon, 04 Nov 2024 00:34:05 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=Date:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: mime-version; bh=+YCJYAbfa145y7htSaxbg4uQQAceGsyLWuHStyFO0hs=; b=RbZK0im5L8EY UNIsrae27nhAKKyMunFWIzwep6WxZRbe/5MOYPYcsxOqST4vTQQov55sSBrZ3mGvz7AqQdhVPAzQi MgdEGnaIcpg6YkqUhjMFgXjbO4FmwmL4Bzb3VkbV8zj6Q0qYjW+mu4vBdENPF5GPzCZsGC0dvPvam xUGowuxezXcbtR3z7JvKCExxp3dOY/pYYK9jARybevRzFklKPR3yEXH9vBZPuTYhYiORUegw/e52I aF9HHcotkh3sC9yYNeoZweyItav5AHOn+6wJB4ab4EuY04SY2n0T2xI60wygRohNHew/HirQAhrTd jZ0uRUTYzJzgoh9avA5fYA==; Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <rms@HIDDEN>) id 1t7pir-0003Q7-3q; Mon, 04 Nov 2024 00:33:56 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Utf-8 From: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <86sesb1lfu.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Eli Zaretskii on Fri, 01 Nov 2024 09:07:33 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#74145: 31.0.50; Default lexical-binding to t References: <jwv4j4sat2i.fsf@HIDDEN> <86sesb1lfu.fsf@HIDDEN> Message-Id: <E1t7pir-0003Q7-3q@HIDDEN> Date: Mon, 04 Nov 2024 00:33:53 -0500 X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 74145 Cc: acorallo@HIDDEN, 74145 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, monnier@HIDDEN, stefankangas@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Reply-To: rms@HIDDEN Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > We need to give the community > ample time and opportunity to discuss those effects and express > opinions, before we install something like that. In particular, any > objections should be taken very seriously, and perhaps some follow-up > measures should be included in the changeset to make the transition > smoother and easier. Hear, hear. We ought to this in the way that is most gentle to the users. -- Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#74145; Package emacs.
Full text available.Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN>
to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org.
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#74145: 31.0.50; Default lexical-binding to t
In-Reply-To: <86sesb1lfu.fsf@HIDDEN> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Fri, 01 Nov
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References: <jwv4j4sat2i.fsf@HIDDEN> <86sesb1lfu.fsf@HIDDEN>
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> Thanks, but this kind of change cannot be discussed here. Please
> start a discussion on emacs-devel, and please include in your
I posted something there, but to be honest at this point I don't think
discussion is going to be useful.
Also, I'm doing this now, i.e. early in the Emacs-31 development cycle,
so that we get a chance to get as much feedback as possible before
committing to it in a release: the patch is easy to revert since (beside the
doc) it's a matter of changing
Vlexical_binding = Qt;
back to
Vlexical_binding = Qnil;
> In particular, any objections should be taken very seriously,
I'm not sure what that means concretely.
> and perhaps some follow-up measures should be included in the
> changeset to make the transition smoother and easier.
I think we've already done about as much as we could over the past
several years. Maybe after installing the patch we will discover new
cases which warrant further changes, but I doubt we'll be able to figure
that out via discussions on emacs-devel.
Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#74145; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 74145) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Nov 2024 07:07:42 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Nov 01 03:07:42 2024 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47301 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1t6ll0-00057u-EL for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Nov 2024 03:07:42 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:37852) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1t6lky-00057l-F3 for 74145 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Nov 2024 03:07:41 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1t6lks-0000ka-Ic; Fri, 01 Nov 2024 03:07:34 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=M67of8cihw+hu5QXjVnfjPRXdBHl4yyZ9B1Yiuh1RzU=; b=UdBG5lIY5vxa lJb0xtbd1czUblEKY74oRG2M8/GIfbYpvzBxpmi00DkR/SyMyo2rwTWtmLSpqYp80Trck2/daL1CO ncRrhyj9jBttehpJEb62MifyQ3ulo7ASrcbU7JSnH6ISVECOa9RWQpAtWjwk9LEeKVL3uDtidL58+ 5ydR6kcRBdb3g1KzCp8QZVsRNknQSXik61Vi0IPCujdI2dNKeO5jG83AUwxQHIfj199Boj+qNjgaP Nm6xbnR7yga3rlLllanUpZoAJUCRgBviZN5h66OHb9uan3JM+wqcbPBGk5LnXXRZi4RkFj5GPJiD9 rxypYzOk7YSVFw7PiJU+rA==; Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2024 09:07:33 +0200 Message-Id: <86sesb1lfu.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <jwv4j4sat2i.fsf@HIDDEN> (bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN) Subject: Re: bug#74145: 31.0.50; Default lexical-binding to t References: <jwv4j4sat2i.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 74145 Cc: Andrea Corallo <acorallo@HIDDEN>, 74145 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Cc: monnier@HIDDEN > Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2024 16:57:57 -0400 > From: Stefan Monnier via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, > the Swiss army knife of text editors" <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN> > > I believe the time has come to change the default dialect. > I attached a suggested patch to do that. Thanks, but this kind of change cannot be discussed here. Please start a discussion on emacs-devel, and please include in your suggestion the description of the effects of this change on various parts of Emacs and third-party package. We need to give the community ample time and opportunity to discuss those effects and express opinions, before we install something like that. In particular, any objections should be taken very seriously, and perhaps some follow-up measures should be included in the changeset to make the transition smoother and easier.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#74145; Package emacs.
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#74145: 31.0.50; Default lexical-binding to t
In-Reply-To: <CADwFkmmDXOZ7P_u=UYq=1GKQMGi6jb+PNcR1Obfv15wsSFMJZA@HIDDEN>
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--=-=-=
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> Great, thanks.
Updated patch below.
> Meanwhile, here's two more things I thought of:
> - I think there's some text in doc/lispref/tips.texi that will need
> updating too.
I didn't think it necessary, but after taking another look at it,
I tweaked a few more things, indeed.
> - Should we provide any advice somewhere for Emacs Lisp authors that
> want to support Emacs 30 or older? For example, they will want to
> keep the lexical-binding:t cookie.
Currently, the doc recommends to add the cookie "everywhere", and my
patch doesn't really change that, so I think we're OK in this respect
(the new change in `tips.texi` does mention that the cookie is needed
only for compatibility with Emacs<31).
Stefan
--=-=-=
Content-Type: text/x-diff
Content-Disposition: inline;
filename=0001-Change-the-default-value-of-lexical-binding.patch
From e69585bfbca950bce14fb51db385a72f6ecb553d Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2024 16:00:10 -0400
Subject: [PATCH] Change the default value of `lexical-binding`
* src/lread.c (syms_of_lread): Set `Vlexical_binding` to Qt.
(Fload, Feval_buffer): Don't assume the default value of
`lexical-binding` is nil.
* lisp/loadup.el: Don't assume the default value of `lexical-binding`
is nil.
* doc/misc/cl.texi (Porting Common Lisp):
* doc/lispref/tips.texi (Coding Conventions, Library Headers):
* doc/lispref/variables.texi (Variable Scoping, Selecting Lisp Dialect)
(Void Variables): Adjust to new default of `lexical-binding`.
* doc/lispref/edebug.texi (Edebug Eval): Remove out of date paragraph.
* doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi (How let Binds Variables)
(Lexical vs. Dynamic Binding Example, defvar): Only consider the
lexical dialect of ELisp.
---
doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi | 26 +++++++----------------
doc/lispref/edebug.texi | 7 ------
doc/lispref/tips.texi | 6 ++++--
doc/lispref/variables.texi | 33 +++++++++++++++--------------
doc/misc/cl.texi | 9 ++++----
etc/NEWS | 6 ++++++
lisp/loadup.el | 4 ++--
src/lread.c | 14 ++++++++----
8 files changed, 52 insertions(+), 53 deletions(-)
diff --git a/doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi b/doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi
index 49916235fbf..6cc7a5b3cf2 100644
--- a/doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi
+++ b/doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi
@@ -3754,21 +3754,12 @@ How let Binds Variables
Emacs Lisp supports two different ways of binding variable names to
their values. These ways affect the parts of your program where a
-particular binding is valid. For historical reasons, Emacs Lisp uses
-a form of variable binding called @dfn{dynamic binding} by default.
-However, in this manual we discuss the preferred form of binding,
-called @dfn{lexical binding}, unless otherwise noted (in the future,
-the Emacs maintainers plan to change the default to lexical binding).
+particular binding is valid.
+In this manual we discuss the preferred form of binding,
+called @dfn{lexical binding}, unless otherwise noted.
If you have programmed in other languages before, you're likely
already familiar with how lexical binding behaves.
-In order to use lexical binding in a program, you should add this to
-the first line of your Emacs Lisp file:
-
-@example
-;;; -*- lexical-binding: t -*-
-@end example
-
For more information about this, @pxref{Variable Scoping, , ,
elisp, The Emacs Lisp Reference Manual}.
@@ -3818,8 +3809,6 @@ Lexical vs. Dynamic Binding Example
For example, see what happens in this code under lexical binding:
@example
-;;; -*- lexical-binding: t -*-
-
(setq x 0)
(defun getx ()
@@ -3845,7 +3834,7 @@ Lexical vs. Dynamic Binding Example
If we use dynamic binding instead, the behavior is different:
@example
-;;; -*- lexical-binding: nil -*-
+(defvar x) ;; Use dynamic binding for 'x'.
(setq x 0)
@@ -3867,8 +3856,9 @@ Lexical vs. Dynamic Binding Example
@code{x}, since its binding is below the one from our @code{let}
expression in the stack of bindings.
-(Some variables are also ``special'', and they are always dynamically
-bound even when @code{lexical-binding} is @code{t}. @xref{defvar, ,
+(The @code{defvar} declaration above is said to make the variable
+``special'', which causes it to obey the dynamic binding rules instead of
+the default lexical binding rules. @xref{defvar, ,
Initializing a Variable with @code{defvar}}.)
@node if
@@ -9229,7 +9219,7 @@ defvar
The @code{defvar} special form is similar to @code{setq} in that it
sets the value of a variable. It is unlike @code{setq} in three ways:
first, it marks the variable as ``special'' so that it is always
-dynamically bound, even when @code{lexical-binding} is @code{t}
+dynamically bound
(@pxref{How let Binds Variables}). Second, it only sets the value of
the variable if the variable does not already have a value. If the
variable already has a value, @code{defvar} does not override the
diff --git a/doc/lispref/edebug.texi b/doc/lispref/edebug.texi
index 03fae67e528..fe617550b09 100644
--- a/doc/lispref/edebug.texi
+++ b/doc/lispref/edebug.texi
@@ -722,13 +722,6 @@ Edebug Eval
pretty-printed in a separate buffer.
@end table
-@cindex lexical binding (Edebug)
- Edebug supports evaluation of expressions containing references to
-lexically bound symbols created by the following constructs in
-@file{cl.el}: @code{lexical-let}, @code{macrolet}, and
-@code{symbol-macrolet}.
-@c FIXME? What about lexical-binding = t?
-
@node Eval List
@subsection Evaluation List Buffer
diff --git a/doc/lispref/tips.texi b/doc/lispref/tips.texi
index 14eabb3558f..2b1b79a7f4f 100644
--- a/doc/lispref/tips.texi
+++ b/doc/lispref/tips.texi
@@ -96,7 +96,7 @@ Coding Conventions
alternative common prefixes, so long as they make sense.
@item
-We recommend enabling @code{lexical-binding} in new code, and
+We recommend not disabling @code{lexical-binding} in new code, and
converting existing Emacs Lisp code to enable @code{lexical-binding}
if it doesn't already. @xref{Selecting Lisp Dialect}.
@@ -1082,7 +1082,9 @@ Library Headers
@end example
@noindent
-The description should be contained in one line. If the file needs to
+The description should be contained in one line.
+The @code{lexical-binding} is not necessary if you do not care about
+compatibility with Emacs<31. If the file needs to
set more variables in the @samp{-*-} specification, add it after
@code{lexical-binding}. If this would make the first line too long, use
a Local Variables section at the end of the file.
diff --git a/doc/lispref/variables.texi b/doc/lispref/variables.texi
index af11e498d86..d4b179003e3 100644
--- a/doc/lispref/variables.texi
+++ b/doc/lispref/variables.texi
@@ -285,7 +285,7 @@ Local Variables
@defspec letrec (bindings@dots{}) forms@dots{}
This special form is like @code{let*}, but all the variables are bound
before any of the local values are computed. The values are then
-assigned to the locally bound variables. This is only useful when
+assigned to the locally bound variables. This is useful only when
lexical binding is in effect, and you want to create closures that
refer to bindings that would otherwise not yet be in effect when using
@code{let*}.
@@ -351,7 +351,7 @@ Local Variables
done so that the value returned by the call is the value of @var{body}
itself, as is the case in the recursive call to @code{sum} above.
-@code{named-let} can only be used when lexical-binding is enabled.
+@code{named-let} can be used only when lexical-binding is enabled.
@xref{Lexical Binding}.
@end defspec
@@ -383,7 +383,7 @@ Void Variables
We say that a variable is void if its symbol has an unassigned value
cell (@pxref{Symbol Components}).
- Under Emacs Lisp's default dynamic scoping rule (@pxref{Variable
+ Under Emacs Lisp's dynamic scoping rule (@pxref{Variable
Scoping}), the value cell stores the variable's current (local or
global) value. Note that an unassigned value cell is @emph{not} the
same as having @code{nil} in the value cell. The symbol @code{nil} is
@@ -392,7 +392,7 @@ Void Variables
to evaluate the variable signals a @code{void-variable} error, instead
of returning a value.
- Under the optional lexical scoping rule, the value cell only holds
+ Under the lexical scoping rule, the value cell holds only
the variable's global value---the value outside of any lexical binding
construct. When a variable is lexically bound, the local value is
determined by the lexical environment; hence, variables can have local
@@ -514,7 +514,7 @@ Defining Variables
Note that specifying a value, even @code{nil}, marks the variable as
special permanently. Whereas if @var{value} is omitted then the
-variable is only marked special locally (i.e.@: within the current
+variable is marked special only locally (i.e.@: within the current
lexical scope, or file if at the top-level). This can be useful for
suppressing byte compilation warnings, see @ref{Compiler Errors}.
@@ -706,8 +706,8 @@ Accessing Variables
The usual way to reference a variable is to write the symbol which
names it. @xref{Symbol Forms}.
- Occasionally, you may want to reference a variable which is only
-determined at run time. In that case, you cannot specify the variable
+ Occasionally, you may want to reference a variable which is determined
+only at run time. In that case, you cannot specify the variable
name in the text of the program. You can use the @code{symbol-value}
function to extract the value.
@@ -1003,14 +1003,15 @@ Variable Scoping
while the binding construct (such as the body of a @code{let} form) is
being executed.
- The old dynamic-only Emacs Lisp dialect is still the default in code
+ The new lexically scoped Emacs Lisp dialect is now the default in code
loaded or evaluated from Lisp files that lack a dialect declaration.
-Eventually the modern dialect will be made the default.
-All Lisp files should declare the dialect used to ensure that they
-keep working correctly in the future.
+Lisp files which still need the old dynamically scoped dialect need to declare
+it explicitly to ensure that they keep working correctly, and should
+eventually be converted to use the new dialect to
+ensure that they keep working correctly in the future.
The following subsections describe lexical binding and dynamic
-binding in greater detail, and how to enable lexical binding in Emacs
+binding in greater detail, and how to disable lexical binding in Emacs
Lisp programs.
@menu
@@ -1319,8 +1320,8 @@ Selecting Lisp Dialect
@noindent
for the old dynamic-only dialect. When no declaration is present the
-old dialect is used, but this may change in a future release.
-The compiler will warn if no declaration is present.
+new dialect is used. Support for the old dialect may be removed in
+a future release.
When evaluating Emacs Lisp code directly using an @code{eval} call,
lexical binding is enabled if the @var{lexical} argument to
@@ -1980,8 +1981,8 @@ File Local Variables
@defvar permanently-enabled-local-variables
Some local variable settings will, by default, be heeded even if
-@code{enable-local-variables} is @code{nil}. By default, this is only
-the case for the @code{lexical-binding} local variable setting, but
+@code{enable-local-variables} is @code{nil}. By default, this is the
+case only for the @code{lexical-binding} local variable setting, but
this can be controlled by using this variable, which is a list of
symbols.
@end defvar
diff --git a/doc/misc/cl.texi b/doc/misc/cl.texi
index 113029700ec..395725944f0 100644
--- a/doc/misc/cl.texi
+++ b/doc/misc/cl.texi
@@ -4758,12 +4758,13 @@ Porting Common Lisp
@item
Lexical scoping. In Common Lisp, function arguments and @code{let}
bindings apply only to references physically within their bodies (or
-within macro expansions in their bodies). Traditionally, Emacs Lisp
-uses @dfn{dynamic scoping} wherein a binding to a variable is visible
+within macro expansions in their bodies). The is also the case in
+modern Emacs Lisp, but historically, Emacs Lisp
+used @dfn{dynamic scoping} wherein a binding to a variable is visible
even inside functions called from the body.
@xref{Dynamic Binding,,,elisp,GNU Emacs Lisp Reference Manual}.
-Lexical binding is available since Emacs 24.1, so be sure to set
-@code{lexical-binding} to @code{t} if you need to emulate this aspect
+Lexical binding is available since Emacs 24.1, but be sure not to set
+@code{lexical-binding} to @code{nil} if you need to emulate this aspect
of Common Lisp. @xref{Lexical Binding,,,elisp,GNU Emacs Lisp Reference Manual}.
Here is an example of a Common Lisp code fragment that would fail in
diff --git a/etc/NEWS b/etc/NEWS
index d1c7303f976..5a480c5f68a 100644
--- a/etc/NEWS
+++ b/etc/NEWS
@@ -636,6 +636,12 @@ the directory into which the repository was cloned.
* Incompatible Lisp Changes in Emacs 31.1
++++
+** 'lexical-binding' now defaults to t.
+The default ELisp dialect is now the lexically scoped dialect.
+Any code which has not yet been adapted should either be
+adapted or set 'lexical-binding' to nil explicitly.
+
** Nested backquotes are not supported any more in Pcase patterns.
** The 'rx' category name 'chinese-two-byte' must now be spelled correctly.
diff --git a/lisp/loadup.el b/lisp/loadup.el
index bd74a9d6aff..e676c338c14 100644
--- a/lisp/loadup.el
+++ b/lisp/loadup.el
@@ -654,9 +654,9 @@ comp-subr-arities-h
(unwind-protect
(let ((tmp-dump-mode dump-mode)
(dump-mode nil)
- ;; Set `lexical-binding' to nil by default
+ ;; Set `lexical-binding' to its default value
;; in the dumped Emacs.
- (lexical-binding nil))
+ (lexical-binding (default-toplevel-value 'lexical-binding)))
(if (member tmp-dump-mode '("pdump" "pbootstrap"))
(dump-emacs-portable (expand-file-name output invocation-directory))
(dump-emacs output (if (eq system-type 'ms-dos)
diff --git a/src/lread.c b/src/lread.c
index ea0398196e3..9f56880e551 100644
--- a/src/lread.c
+++ b/src/lread.c
@@ -1522,7 +1522,7 @@ DEFUN ("load", Fload, Sload, 1, 5, 0,
otherwise using a file-variable in the first line. This is bound here
so that it takes effect whether or not we use
Vload_source_file_function. */
- specbind (Qlexical_binding, Qnil);
+ specbind (Qlexical_binding, Fdefault_toplevel_value (Qlexical_binding));
Lisp_Object found_eff =
is_native_elisp
@@ -1720,8 +1720,11 @@ DEFUN ("load", Fload, Sload, 1, 5, 0,
}
else
{
- if (lisp_file_lexical_cookie (Qget_file_char) == Cookie_Lex)
+ lexical_cookie_t lexc = lisp_file_lexical_cookie (Qget_file_char);
+ if (lexc == Cookie_Lex)
Fset (Qlexical_binding, Qt);
+ else if (lexc == Cookie_Dyn)
+ Fset (Qlexical_binding, Qnil);
if (! version || version >= 22)
readevalloop (Qget_file_char, &input, hist_file_name,
@@ -2606,8 +2609,11 @@ DEFUN ("eval-buffer", Feval_buffer, Seval_buffer, 0, 5, "",
specbind (Qstandard_output, tem);
record_unwind_protect_excursion ();
BUF_TEMP_SET_PT (XBUFFER (buf), BUF_BEGV (XBUFFER (buf)));
+ lexical_cookie_t lexc = lisp_file_lexical_cookie (buf);
specbind (Qlexical_binding,
- lisp_file_lexical_cookie (buf) == Cookie_Lex ? Qt : Qnil);
+ lexc == Cookie_Lex ? Qt
+ : lexc == Cookie_Dyn ? Qnil
+ : Fdefault_toplevel_value (Qlexical_binding));
BUF_TEMP_SET_PT (XBUFFER (buf), BUF_BEGV (XBUFFER (buf)));
readevalloop (buf, 0, filename,
!NILP (printflag), unibyte, Qnil, Qnil, Qnil);
@@ -6056,7 +6062,7 @@ syms_of_lread (void)
This variable is automatically set from the file variables of an
interpreted Lisp file read using `load'. Unlike other file local
variables, this must be set in the first line of a file. */);
- Vlexical_binding = Qnil;
+ Vlexical_binding = Qt;
Fmake_variable_buffer_local (Qlexical_binding);
DEFVAR_LISP ("eval-buffer-list", Veval_buffer_list,
--
2.39.5
--=-=-=--
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#74145; Package emacs.
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bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#74145; Package emacs.
Full text available.Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN>
to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org.
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#74145: 31.0.50; Default lexical-binding to t
In-Reply-To: <CADwFkmnT5OO2cbtgTg_W+KWPUrH9MTF+mOoRQOPJU5LDEJXarA@HIDDEN>
(Stefan Kangas's message of "Thu, 31 Oct 2024 16:31:49 -0700")
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<CADwFkmnT5OO2cbtgTg_W+KWPUrH9MTF+mOoRQOPJU5LDEJXarA@HIDDEN>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2024 21:20:41 -0400
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Hi Stefan,
>> @@ -392,7 +392,7 @@ Void Variables
>> to evaluate the variable signals a @code{void-variable} error, instead
>> of returning a value.
>>
>> - Under the optional lexical scoping rule, the value cell only holds
>> + Under the optional lexical scoping rule, the value cell holds only
>> the variable's global value---the value outside of any lexical binding
>> construct. When a variable is lexically bound, the local value is
>> determined by the lexical environment; hence, variables can have local
>
> I think this section might need more work. It's a bit confusing to talk
> about "default dynamic scoping" and "optional lexical scoping" now.
> Shouldn't we talk about "normal variables with lexical scoping" and
> "special variables with dynamic scoping" or something along those lines?
Very good point, will take a closer look.
>> + (lexical-binding (default-toplevel-value 'lexical-binding)))
> Why not just use `t` here instead of its `default-toplevel-value`?
I "fixed" the code such that the default is set at exactly one place,
i.e. in `syms_of_lread`, but indeed it's not indispensable.
It's not super important, but it seemed cleaner.
It also makes it easy for users to "go back" to the nil default,
e.g. for testing purposes, or as a quick fix until you can track down
the `.el` files that need to be adjusted.
Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#74145; Package emacs.
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Stefan Monnier via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of
text editors" <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN> writes:
> I believe the time has come to change the default dialect.
> I attached a suggested patch to do that.
Sounds good to me. Legacy code can still run with a lexical-binding:nil
cookie, so I think we're good in the backwards-compatibility department.
Andrea and Eli?
Some minor comments and questions on your patch below.
> @@ -392,7 +392,7 @@ Void Variables
> to evaluate the variable signals a @code{void-variable} error, instead
> of returning a value.
>
> - Under the optional lexical scoping rule, the value cell only holds
> + Under the optional lexical scoping rule, the value cell holds only
> the variable's global value---the value outside of any lexical binding
> construct. When a variable is lexically bound, the local value is
> determined by the lexical environment; hence, variables can have local
I think this section might need more work. It's a bit confusing to talk
about "default dynamic scoping" and "optional lexical scoping" now.
Shouldn't we talk about "normal variables with lexical scoping" and
"special variables with dynamic scoping" or something along those lines?
> diff --git a/lisp/loadup.el b/lisp/loadup.el
> index bd74a9d6aff..e676c338c14 100644
> --- a/lisp/loadup.el
> +++ b/lisp/loadup.el
> @@ -654,9 +654,9 @@ comp-subr-arities-h
> (unwind-protect
> (let ((tmp-dump-mode dump-mode)
> (dump-mode nil)
> - ;; Set `lexical-binding' to nil by default
> + ;; Set `lexical-binding' to its default value
> ;; in the dumped Emacs.
> - (lexical-binding nil))
> + (lexical-binding (default-toplevel-value 'lexical-binding)))
> (if (member tmp-dump-mode '("pdump" "pbootstrap"))
> (dump-emacs-portable (expand-file-name output invocation-directory))
> (dump-emacs output (if (eq system-type 'ms-dos)
Why not just use `t` here instead of its `default-toplevel-value`?
> diff --git a/src/lread.c b/src/lread.c
> index ea0398196e3..9f56880e551 100644
> --- a/src/lread.c
> +++ b/src/lread.c
> @@ -1522,7 +1522,7 @@ DEFUN ("load", Fload, Sload, 1, 5, 0,
> otherwise using a file-variable in the first line. This is bound here
> so that it takes effect whether or not we use
> Vload_source_file_function. */
> - specbind (Qlexical_binding, Qnil);
> + specbind (Qlexical_binding, Fdefault_toplevel_value (Qlexical_binding));
>
> Lisp_Object found_eff =
> is_native_elisp
And here?
> @@ -2606,8 +2609,11 @@ DEFUN ("eval-buffer", Feval_buffer, Seval_buffer, 0, 5, "",
> specbind (Qstandard_output, tem);
> record_unwind_protect_excursion ();
> BUF_TEMP_SET_PT (XBUFFER (buf), BUF_BEGV (XBUFFER (buf)));
> + lexical_cookie_t lexc = lisp_file_lexical_cookie (buf);
> specbind (Qlexical_binding,
> - lisp_file_lexical_cookie (buf) == Cookie_Lex ? Qt : Qnil);
> + lexc == Cookie_Lex ? Qt
> + : lexc == Cookie_Dyn ? Qnil
> + : Fdefault_toplevel_value (Qlexical_binding));
> BUF_TEMP_SET_PT (XBUFFER (buf), BUF_BEGV (XBUFFER (buf)));
> readevalloop (buf, 0, filename,
> !NILP (printflag), unibyte, Qnil, Qnil, Qnil);
And here?
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#74145; Package emacs.
Full text available.
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
Subject: 31.0.50; Default lexical-binding to t
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--=-=-=
Content-Type: text/plain
Package: Emacs
Version: 31.0.50
I believe the time has come to change the default dialect.
I attached a suggested patch to do that.
Stefan
--=-=-=
Content-Type: text/x-diff
Content-Disposition: inline;
filename=0001-Change-the-default-value-of-lexical-binding.patch
From 973939b9dd79735f051c99f1a20d74aabad931ff Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2024 16:00:10 -0400
Subject: [PATCH] Change the default value of `lexical-binding`
* src/lread.c (syms_of_lread): Set `Vlexical_binding` to Qt.
(Fload, Feval_buffer): Don't assume the default value of
`lexical-binding` is nil.
* lisp/loadup.el: Don't assume the default value of `lexical-binding`
is nil.
* doc/misc/cl.texi (Porting Common Lisp):
* doc/lispref/variables.texi (Variable Scoping)
(Selecting Lisp Dialect): Adjust to new default of `lexical-binding`.
* doc/lispref/edebug.texi (Edebug Eval): Remove out of date paragraph.
* doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi (How let Binds Variables)
(Lexical vs. Dynamic Binding Example, defvar): Only consider the
lexical dialect of ELisp.
---
doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi | 26 ++++++++----------------
doc/lispref/edebug.texi | 7 -------
doc/lispref/variables.texi | 31 +++++++++++++++--------------
doc/misc/cl.texi | 9 +++++----
etc/NEWS | 6 ++++++
lisp/loadup.el | 4 ++--
src/lread.c | 14 +++++++++----
7 files changed, 47 insertions(+), 50 deletions(-)
diff --git a/doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi b/doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi
index 49916235fbf..6cc7a5b3cf2 100644
--- a/doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi
+++ b/doc/lispintro/emacs-lisp-intro.texi
@@ -3754,21 +3754,12 @@ How let Binds Variables
Emacs Lisp supports two different ways of binding variable names to
their values. These ways affect the parts of your program where a
-particular binding is valid. For historical reasons, Emacs Lisp uses
-a form of variable binding called @dfn{dynamic binding} by default.
-However, in this manual we discuss the preferred form of binding,
-called @dfn{lexical binding}, unless otherwise noted (in the future,
-the Emacs maintainers plan to change the default to lexical binding).
+particular binding is valid.
+In this manual we discuss the preferred form of binding,
+called @dfn{lexical binding}, unless otherwise noted.
If you have programmed in other languages before, you're likely
already familiar with how lexical binding behaves.
-In order to use lexical binding in a program, you should add this to
-the first line of your Emacs Lisp file:
-
-@example
-;;; -*- lexical-binding: t -*-
-@end example
-
For more information about this, @pxref{Variable Scoping, , ,
elisp, The Emacs Lisp Reference Manual}.
@@ -3818,8 +3809,6 @@ Lexical vs. Dynamic Binding Example
For example, see what happens in this code under lexical binding:
@example
-;;; -*- lexical-binding: t -*-
-
(setq x 0)
(defun getx ()
@@ -3845,7 +3834,7 @@ Lexical vs. Dynamic Binding Example
If we use dynamic binding instead, the behavior is different:
@example
-;;; -*- lexical-binding: nil -*-
+(defvar x) ;; Use dynamic binding for 'x'.
(setq x 0)
@@ -3867,8 +3856,9 @@ Lexical vs. Dynamic Binding Example
@code{x}, since its binding is below the one from our @code{let}
expression in the stack of bindings.
-(Some variables are also ``special'', and they are always dynamically
-bound even when @code{lexical-binding} is @code{t}. @xref{defvar, ,
+(The @code{defvar} declaration above is said to make the variable
+``special'', which causes it to obey the dynamic binding rules instead of
+the default lexical binding rules. @xref{defvar, ,
Initializing a Variable with @code{defvar}}.)
@node if
@@ -9229,7 +9219,7 @@ defvar
The @code{defvar} special form is similar to @code{setq} in that it
sets the value of a variable. It is unlike @code{setq} in three ways:
first, it marks the variable as ``special'' so that it is always
-dynamically bound, even when @code{lexical-binding} is @code{t}
+dynamically bound
(@pxref{How let Binds Variables}). Second, it only sets the value of
the variable if the variable does not already have a value. If the
variable already has a value, @code{defvar} does not override the
diff --git a/doc/lispref/edebug.texi b/doc/lispref/edebug.texi
index 03fae67e528..fe617550b09 100644
--- a/doc/lispref/edebug.texi
+++ b/doc/lispref/edebug.texi
@@ -722,13 +722,6 @@ Edebug Eval
pretty-printed in a separate buffer.
@end table
-@cindex lexical binding (Edebug)
- Edebug supports evaluation of expressions containing references to
-lexically bound symbols created by the following constructs in
-@file{cl.el}: @code{lexical-let}, @code{macrolet}, and
-@code{symbol-macrolet}.
-@c FIXME? What about lexical-binding = t?
-
@node Eval List
@subsection Evaluation List Buffer
diff --git a/doc/lispref/variables.texi b/doc/lispref/variables.texi
index af11e498d86..fa5f792b40f 100644
--- a/doc/lispref/variables.texi
+++ b/doc/lispref/variables.texi
@@ -285,7 +285,7 @@ Local Variables
@defspec letrec (bindings@dots{}) forms@dots{}
This special form is like @code{let*}, but all the variables are bound
before any of the local values are computed. The values are then
-assigned to the locally bound variables. This is only useful when
+assigned to the locally bound variables. This is useful only when
lexical binding is in effect, and you want to create closures that
refer to bindings that would otherwise not yet be in effect when using
@code{let*}.
@@ -351,7 +351,7 @@ Local Variables
done so that the value returned by the call is the value of @var{body}
itself, as is the case in the recursive call to @code{sum} above.
-@code{named-let} can only be used when lexical-binding is enabled.
+@code{named-let} can be used only when lexical-binding is enabled.
@xref{Lexical Binding}.
@end defspec
@@ -392,7 +392,7 @@ Void Variables
to evaluate the variable signals a @code{void-variable} error, instead
of returning a value.
- Under the optional lexical scoping rule, the value cell only holds
+ Under the optional lexical scoping rule, the value cell holds only
the variable's global value---the value outside of any lexical binding
construct. When a variable is lexically bound, the local value is
determined by the lexical environment; hence, variables can have local
@@ -514,7 +514,7 @@ Defining Variables
Note that specifying a value, even @code{nil}, marks the variable as
special permanently. Whereas if @var{value} is omitted then the
-variable is only marked special locally (i.e.@: within the current
+variable is marked special only locally (i.e.@: within the current
lexical scope, or file if at the top-level). This can be useful for
suppressing byte compilation warnings, see @ref{Compiler Errors}.
@@ -706,8 +706,8 @@ Accessing Variables
The usual way to reference a variable is to write the symbol which
names it. @xref{Symbol Forms}.
- Occasionally, you may want to reference a variable which is only
-determined at run time. In that case, you cannot specify the variable
+ Occasionally, you may want to reference a variable which is determined
+only at run time. In that case, you cannot specify the variable
name in the text of the program. You can use the @code{symbol-value}
function to extract the value.
@@ -1003,14 +1003,15 @@ Variable Scoping
while the binding construct (such as the body of a @code{let} form) is
being executed.
- The old dynamic-only Emacs Lisp dialect is still the default in code
+ The new lexically scoped Emacs Lisp dialect is now the default in code
loaded or evaluated from Lisp files that lack a dialect declaration.
-Eventually the modern dialect will be made the default.
-All Lisp files should declare the dialect used to ensure that they
-keep working correctly in the future.
+Lisp files which still need the old dynamically scoped dialect need to declare
+it explicitly to ensure that they keep working correctly, and should
+eventually be converted to use the new dialect to
+ensure that they keep working correctly in the future.
The following subsections describe lexical binding and dynamic
-binding in greater detail, and how to enable lexical binding in Emacs
+binding in greater detail, and how to disable lexical binding in Emacs
Lisp programs.
@menu
@@ -1319,8 +1320,8 @@ Selecting Lisp Dialect
@noindent
for the old dynamic-only dialect. When no declaration is present the
-old dialect is used, but this may change in a future release.
-The compiler will warn if no declaration is present.
+new dialect is used. Support for the old dialect may be removed in
+a future release.
When evaluating Emacs Lisp code directly using an @code{eval} call,
lexical binding is enabled if the @var{lexical} argument to
@@ -1980,8 +1981,8 @@ File Local Variables
@defvar permanently-enabled-local-variables
Some local variable settings will, by default, be heeded even if
-@code{enable-local-variables} is @code{nil}. By default, this is only
-the case for the @code{lexical-binding} local variable setting, but
+@code{enable-local-variables} is @code{nil}. By default, this is the
+case only for the @code{lexical-binding} local variable setting, but
this can be controlled by using this variable, which is a list of
symbols.
@end defvar
diff --git a/doc/misc/cl.texi b/doc/misc/cl.texi
index 113029700ec..395725944f0 100644
--- a/doc/misc/cl.texi
+++ b/doc/misc/cl.texi
@@ -4758,12 +4758,13 @@ Porting Common Lisp
@item
Lexical scoping. In Common Lisp, function arguments and @code{let}
bindings apply only to references physically within their bodies (or
-within macro expansions in their bodies). Traditionally, Emacs Lisp
-uses @dfn{dynamic scoping} wherein a binding to a variable is visible
+within macro expansions in their bodies). The is also the case in
+modern Emacs Lisp, but historically, Emacs Lisp
+used @dfn{dynamic scoping} wherein a binding to a variable is visible
even inside functions called from the body.
@xref{Dynamic Binding,,,elisp,GNU Emacs Lisp Reference Manual}.
-Lexical binding is available since Emacs 24.1, so be sure to set
-@code{lexical-binding} to @code{t} if you need to emulate this aspect
+Lexical binding is available since Emacs 24.1, but be sure not to set
+@code{lexical-binding} to @code{nil} if you need to emulate this aspect
of Common Lisp. @xref{Lexical Binding,,,elisp,GNU Emacs Lisp Reference Manual}.
Here is an example of a Common Lisp code fragment that would fail in
diff --git a/etc/NEWS b/etc/NEWS
index d1c7303f976..5a480c5f68a 100644
--- a/etc/NEWS
+++ b/etc/NEWS
@@ -636,6 +636,12 @@ the directory into which the repository was cloned.
* Incompatible Lisp Changes in Emacs 31.1
++++
+** 'lexical-binding' now defaults to t.
+The default ELisp dialect is now the lexically scoped dialect.
+Any code which has not yet been adapted should either be
+adapted or set 'lexical-binding' to nil explicitly.
+
** Nested backquotes are not supported any more in Pcase patterns.
** The 'rx' category name 'chinese-two-byte' must now be spelled correctly.
diff --git a/lisp/loadup.el b/lisp/loadup.el
index bd74a9d6aff..e676c338c14 100644
--- a/lisp/loadup.el
+++ b/lisp/loadup.el
@@ -654,9 +654,9 @@ comp-subr-arities-h
(unwind-protect
(let ((tmp-dump-mode dump-mode)
(dump-mode nil)
- ;; Set `lexical-binding' to nil by default
+ ;; Set `lexical-binding' to its default value
;; in the dumped Emacs.
- (lexical-binding nil))
+ (lexical-binding (default-toplevel-value 'lexical-binding)))
(if (member tmp-dump-mode '("pdump" "pbootstrap"))
(dump-emacs-portable (expand-file-name output invocation-directory))
(dump-emacs output (if (eq system-type 'ms-dos)
diff --git a/src/lread.c b/src/lread.c
index ea0398196e3..9f56880e551 100644
--- a/src/lread.c
+++ b/src/lread.c
@@ -1522,7 +1522,7 @@ DEFUN ("load", Fload, Sload, 1, 5, 0,
otherwise using a file-variable in the first line. This is bound here
so that it takes effect whether or not we use
Vload_source_file_function. */
- specbind (Qlexical_binding, Qnil);
+ specbind (Qlexical_binding, Fdefault_toplevel_value (Qlexical_binding));
Lisp_Object found_eff =
is_native_elisp
@@ -1720,8 +1720,11 @@ DEFUN ("load", Fload, Sload, 1, 5, 0,
}
else
{
- if (lisp_file_lexical_cookie (Qget_file_char) == Cookie_Lex)
+ lexical_cookie_t lexc = lisp_file_lexical_cookie (Qget_file_char);
+ if (lexc == Cookie_Lex)
Fset (Qlexical_binding, Qt);
+ else if (lexc == Cookie_Dyn)
+ Fset (Qlexical_binding, Qnil);
if (! version || version >= 22)
readevalloop (Qget_file_char, &input, hist_file_name,
@@ -2606,8 +2609,11 @@ DEFUN ("eval-buffer", Feval_buffer, Seval_buffer, 0, 5, "",
specbind (Qstandard_output, tem);
record_unwind_protect_excursion ();
BUF_TEMP_SET_PT (XBUFFER (buf), BUF_BEGV (XBUFFER (buf)));
+ lexical_cookie_t lexc = lisp_file_lexical_cookie (buf);
specbind (Qlexical_binding,
- lisp_file_lexical_cookie (buf) == Cookie_Lex ? Qt : Qnil);
+ lexc == Cookie_Lex ? Qt
+ : lexc == Cookie_Dyn ? Qnil
+ : Fdefault_toplevel_value (Qlexical_binding));
BUF_TEMP_SET_PT (XBUFFER (buf), BUF_BEGV (XBUFFER (buf)));
readevalloop (buf, 0, filename,
!NILP (printflag), unibyte, Qnil, Qnil, Qnil);
@@ -6056,7 +6062,7 @@ syms_of_lread (void)
This variable is automatically set from the file variables of an
interpreted Lisp file read using `load'. Unlike other file local
variables, this must be set in the first line of a file. */);
- Vlexical_binding = Qnil;
+ Vlexical_binding = Qt;
Fmake_variable_buffer_local (Qlexical_binding);
DEFVAR_LISP ("eval-buffer-list", Veval_buffer_list,
--
2.39.5
--=-=-=--
Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>:monnier@HIDDEN, bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.
Full text available.monnier@HIDDEN, bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#74145; Package emacs.
Full text available.
GNU bug tracking system
Copyright (C) 1999 Darren O. Benham,
1997 nCipher Corporation Ltd,
1994-97 Ian Jackson.