GNU logs - #75143, boring messages

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Subject: bug#75143: debbugs info manual name
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Hello!

(This is about the ELPA package debbugs, not Emacs proper)

I wanted to make a quick suggestion on the debbugs info manuals names.
I think we should name the user manual "debbugs" and the programmer
manual "debbugs-programmer-manual" (NOT "debbugs-pm").

Currently the info manual is called: debbugs-ug.info
The programmer info manual is called: debbugs.info

This means people typing "info debbugs" will get the programmer info
manual, not the user info manual.

When I was first starting to use debbugs I skimmed the programmer info
manual accidentally and got quite confused trying to find the
information I wanted.  I ran "info debbugs" and opened the section
"searching bugs" hoping to find the user commands, not elisp ones.

The programmer manual does mention the user manual but as I was skimming
for something specific, not reading it carefully, I missed that.

Thanks,

Morgan

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From: help-debbugs@HIDDEN (GNU bug Tracking System)
To: Morgan Smith <Morgan.J.Smith@HIDDEN>
Subject: bug#75143: Acknowledgement (debbugs info manual name)
Message-ID: <handler.75143.B.173531291727013.ack <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
References: <CH3PR84MB3424068D214C8E11FA0D2A6FC50E2@HIDDEN>
X-Gnu-PR-Message: ack 75143
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Reply-To: 75143 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2024 15:22:02 +0000

Thank you for filing a new bug report with debbugs.gnu.org.

This is an automatically generated reply to let you know your message
has been received.

Your message is being forwarded to the package maintainers and other
interested parties for their attention; they will reply in due course.

As you requested using X-Debbugs-CC, your message was also forwarded to
  Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN>
(after having been given a bug report number, if it did not have one).

Your message has been sent to the package maintainer(s):
 bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN

If you wish to submit further information on this problem, please
send it to 75143 <at> debbugs.gnu.org.

Please do not send mail to help-debbugs@HIDDEN unless you wish
to report a problem with the Bug-tracking system.

--=20
75143: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D75143
GNU Bug Tracking System
Contact help-debbugs@HIDDEN with problems

Message sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:

Subject: bug#75143: debbugs info manual name
Resent-From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN>
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To: Morgan Smith <Morgan.J.Smith@HIDDEN>
Cc: 75143 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
From: Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <CH3PR84MB3424068D214C8E11FA0D2A6FC50E2@HIDDEN>
 (Morgan Smith's message of "Fri, 27 Dec 2024 10:16:48 -0500")
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Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2024 18:10:16 +0100
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Morgan Smith <Morgan.J.Smith@HIDDEN> writes:

> Hello!

Hi Morgan,

> I wanted to make a quick suggestion on the debbugs info manuals names.
> I think we should name the user manual "debbugs" and the programmer
> manual "debbugs-programmer-manual" (NOT "debbugs-pm").
>
> Currently the info manual is called: debbugs-ug.info
> The programmer info manual is called: debbugs.info
>
> This means people typing "info debbugs" will get the programmer info
> manual, not the user info manual.
>
> When I was first starting to use debbugs I skimmed the programmer info
> manual accidentally and got quite confused trying to find the
> information I wanted.  I ran "info debbugs" and opened the section
> "searching bugs" hoping to find the user commands, not elisp ones.
>
> The programmer manual does mention the user manual but as I was skimming
> for something specific, not reading it carefully, I missed that.

Although I understand your reasons, I'm not convinced that this is worth
the trouble. The manuals exist for 13 years (debbugs.texi) and 10 years
(debbugs-ug.texi). It night confuse prople, if we rename them.

Furthermore, there are references to both manuals from outside. Those
references would be broken.

> Thanks,
>
> Morgan

Best regards, Michael.

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Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN> writes:

> Morgan Smith <Morgan.J.Smith@HIDDEN> writes:
>
>> Hello!
>
> Hi Morgan,
>
>> I wanted to make a quick suggestion on the debbugs info manuals names.
>> I think we should name the user manual "debbugs" and the programmer
>> manual "debbugs-programmer-manual" (NOT "debbugs-pm").
>>
>> Currently the info manual is called: debbugs-ug.info
>> The programmer info manual is called: debbugs.info
>>
>> This means people typing "info debbugs" will get the programmer info
>> manual, not the user info manual.
>>
>> When I was first starting to use debbugs I skimmed the programmer info
>> manual accidentally and got quite confused trying to find the
>> information I wanted.  I ran "info debbugs" and opened the section
>> "searching bugs" hoping to find the user commands, not elisp ones.
>>
>> The programmer manual does mention the user manual but as I was skimming
>> for something specific, not reading it carefully, I missed that.
>
> Although I understand your reasons, I'm not convinced that this is worth
> the trouble. The manuals exist for 13 years (debbugs.texi) and 10 years
> (debbugs-ug.texi). It night confuse prople, if we rename them.
>
> Furthermore, there are references to both manuals from outside. Those
> references would be broken.
>

These are fair points.  Feel free to close this bug as wontfix if you
determine there is nothing to be done.

When selecting an info manual it still takes me a second to remember
that "Debbugs UG" means user guide.  Maybe this could be fixed by adding
the short description of the manuals to the Info auto-complete menu
(`Info-menu').  I might look into that but that would belong in a
separate bug report.

>> Thanks,
>>
>> Morgan
>
> Best regards, Michael.

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Morgan Smith <morgan.j.smith@HIDDEN> writes:

>>> Hello!

Hi Morgan,

> When selecting an info manual it still takes me a second to remember
> that "Debbugs UG" means user guide.  Maybe this could be fixed by adding
> the short description of the manuals to the Info auto-complete menu
> (`Info-menu').  I might look into that but that would belong in a
> separate bug report.

Good idea. You could reuse this bug report for tracking your actions.

>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Morgan

Best regards, Michael.

Message sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:

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Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@HIDDEN> writes:

Hi Morgan,

>> When selecting an info manual it still takes me a second to remember
>> that "Debbugs UG" means user guide.  Maybe this could be fixed by adding
>> the short description of the manuals to the Info auto-complete menu
>> (`Info-menu').  I might look into that but that would belong in a
>> separate bug report.
>
> Good idea. You could reuse this bug report for tracking your actions.

Any progress? I'm ready for a new debbugs release, and I'd like to know
whether there will be any further contribution next time.

If you don't plan to submit anything soon now, could you pls explain
what you have in mind with this proposal? I've tried to check it, but
I've failed to understand what to do.

>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Morgan

Best regards, Michael.

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