GNU bug report logs - #75553
31.0.50; custom-load-symbol should respect message verbosity

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Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Johann Höchtl <johann.hoechtl <at> gmail.com>
To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org
Subject: 31.0.50; custom-load-symbol should respect message verbosity
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2025 08:14:08 +0100

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

I find the load messages during startup, caused by (custom-load-symbol
'foo) disturbing.

That is caused by the fact that the API of custom-load-symbaol has no means
to respect the setting of force-load-messages when loading a library.

Please do note, that this analysis has been made by and is described in
more detail in

https://emacs.stackexchange.com/questions/82904/disable-echo-area-during-startup/82924#82924


In GNU Emacs 31.0.50 (build 1, x86_64-w64-mingw32) of 2025-01-02 built
 on fv-az1495-740
Repository revision: 299a1fbef886dba654f58a0c55b373f8b43d383b
Repository branch: HEAD
Windowing system distributor 'Microsoft Corp.', version 10.0.19045
System Description: Microsoft Windows 10 Enterprise (v10.0.2009.19045.5247)

Configured using:
 'configure
 --prefix=/d/a/emacs-build/emacs-build/pkg/299a1fb-ucrt-x86_64
 'CFLAGS=-O2 -fno-semantic-interposition -floop-parallelize-all
 -ftree-parallelize-loops=4 -g3 ' --disable-build-details --without-dbus
 --enable-link-time-optimization --enable-build-details
 --with-compress-install --with-small-ja-dic --with-gif --with-gnutls
 --with-harfbuzz --with-jpeg --with-json --with-lcms2 --with-mps
 --with-native-compilation --with-png --with-rsvg --with-tree-sitter
 --with-xml2 --with-xpm --with-zlib --without-cairo --without-tiff'

Configured features:
ACL GIF GMP GNUTLS HARFBUZZ JPEG LCMS2 LIBXML2 MODULES MPS NATIVE_COMP
NOTIFY W32NOTIFY PDUMPER PNG RSVG SOUND SQLITE3 THREADS
TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS TREE_SITTER WEBP XPM ZLIB

Important settings:
  value of $LC_ALL: en_US.UTF-8
  value of $LANG: C.UTF-8
  locale-coding-system: cp1252

Major mode: Markdown

Minor modes in effect:
  corfu-terminal-mode: t
  visual-wrap-prefix-mode: t
  word-wrap-whitespace-mode: t
  flyspell-mode: t
  winner-mode: t
  windmove-mode: t
  savehist-mode: t
  save-place-mode: t
  recentf-mode: t
  pixel-scroll-precision-mode: t
  marginalia-mode: t
  global-auto-revert-mode: t
  icomplete-mode: t
  fido-mode: t
  desktop-save-mode: t
  delete-selection-mode: t
  bar-cursor-mode: t
  corfu-mode: t
  override-global-mode: t
  tooltip-mode: t
  global-eldoc-mode: t
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  font-lock-mode: t
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  minibuffer-regexp-mode: t
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  line-number-mode: t
  visual-line-mode: t
  transient-mark-mode: t
  auto-composition-mode: t
  auto-encryption-mode: t
  auto-compression-mode: t

Load-path shadows:
c:/Users/HoechtlJ/.config/emacs/elpa/transient-20250108.1351/transient
hides
c:/Users/HoechtlJ/AppData/Local/Emacs/share/emacs/31.0.50/lisp/transient

Features:
(shadow sort mail-extr compile comint ansi-osc ansi-color comp-run
comp-common emacsbug message puny dired dired-loaddefs rfc822 mml
mml-sec epa derived epg rfc6068 epg-config gnus-util
text-property-search mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231
mailabbrev gmm-utils mailheader sendmail rfc2047 rfc2045 ietf-drums
mm-util mail-prsvr mail-utils display-line-numbers
display-fill-column-indicator yasnippet hideshow vc-git diff-mode
track-changes files-x vc-dispatcher time-date corfu-terminal popon
visual-wrap word-wrap-mode flyspell ispell yank-media markdown-mode
edit-indirect rx color thingatpt noutline outline deeper-blue-theme
winner windmove savehist saveplace recentf tree-widget wid-edit
pixel-scroll cua-base ring marginalia autorevert filenotify icomplete
desktop frameset delsel bar-cursor cus-load corfu edmacro kmacro
use-package-bind-key bind-key easy-mmode orderless compat cl-extra
help-mode use-package-ensure use-package-core finder-inf
bar-cursor-autoloads breadcrumb-autoloads cape-autoloads
corfu-terminal-autoloads corfu-autoloads csv-mode-autoloads
d2-mode-autoloads dape-autoloads dired-sidebar-autoloads
dired-subtree-autoloads dired-hacks-utils-autoloads
edit-indirect-autoloads go-mode-autoloads hideshowvis-autoloads
impatient-showdown-autoloads impatient-mode-autoloads htmlize-autoloads
indent-bars-autoloads magit-autoloads pcase magit-section-autoloads
marginalia-autoloads markdown-mode-autoloads mini-modeline-autoloads
dash-autoloads olivetti-autoloads orderless-autoloads popon-autoloads
simple-httpd-autoloads transient-autoloads vundo-autoloads info
with-editor-autoloads yasnippet-autoloads package browse-url xdg url
url-proxy url-privacy url-expand url-methods url-history url-cookie
generate-lisp-file url-domsuf url-util mailcap url-handlers url-parse
auth-source cl-seq eieio eieio-core cl-macs icons password-cache json
subr-x map byte-opt gv bytecomp byte-compile url-vars cl-loaddefs cl-lib
rmc iso-transl tooltip cconv eldoc paren electric uniquify ediff-hook
vc-hooks lisp-float-type elisp-mode mwheel touch-screen dos-w32 ls-lisp
disp-table term/w32-win w32-win w32-vars term/common-win tool-bar dnd
fontset image regexp-opt fringe tabulated-list replace newcomment
text-mode lisp-mode prog-mode register page tab-bar menu-bar rfn-eshadow
isearch easymenu timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax
font-core term/tty-colors frame minibuffer nadvice seq simple cl-generic
indonesian philippine cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese
tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese eucjp-ms cp51932 hebrew greek
romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese
composite emoji-zwj charscript charprop case-table epa-hook
jka-cmpr-hook help abbrev obarray oclosure cl-preloaded button loaddefs
theme-loaddefs faces cus-face macroexp files window text-properties
overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget keymap
hashtable-print-readable backquote threads w32notify w32 lcms2 multi-tty
move-toolbar make-network-process tty-child-frames native-compile mps
emacs)

Memory information:
((conses 24 0 0) (symbols 56 0 0) (strings 40 0 0) (string-bytes 1 0)
 (vectors 24 0) (vector-slots 8 0 0) (floats 24 0 0)
 (intervals 64 0 0) (buffers 1000 0))

[Message part 2 (text/html, inline)]

Message #8 received at 75553 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Johann Höchtl <johann.hoechtl <at> gmail.com>
Cc: 75553 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#75553: 31.0.50;
 custom-load-symbol should respect message verbosity
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2025 15:01:48 +0200

> From: Johann Höchtl <johann.hoechtl <at> gmail.com>
> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2025 08:14:08 +0100
> 
> I find the load messages during startup, caused by (custom-load-symbol 'foo) disturbing.
> 
> That is caused by the fact that the API of custom-load-symbaol has no means to respect the setting of
> force-load-messages when loading a library. 
> 
> Please do note, that this analysis has been made by and is described in more detail in
> 
> https://emacs.stackexchange.com/questions/82904/disable-echo-area-during-startup/82924#82924

I don't think force-load-messages is what you want, because that
variable is used for the opposite purpose: to avoid suppressing
"Loading FOO..." messages.  Whereas you want to suppress those
messages.

I don't understand why you want to suppress those messages, though.
Those messages are normal in Emacs: they are shown every time Emacs
loads a Lisp package.  custom-load is not special in any way in this
regard.

Why is it important to suppress that?

Message #11 received at 75553 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Johann Höchtl <johann.hoechtl <at> gmail.com>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 75553 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#75553: 31.0.50;
 custom-load-symbol should respect message verbosity
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2025 16:26:27 +0100

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

It's not important in the sense as it does not impair daily work. It is
more the appearance of a tool spilling debug information which gives a
somewhat unprofessional look. That's about it.

Am Di., 14. Jan. 2025 um 14:01 Uhr schrieb Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>:

> > From: Johann Höchtl <johann.hoechtl <at> gmail.com>
> > Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2025 08:14:08 +0100
> >
> > I find the load messages during startup, caused by (custom-load-symbol
> 'foo) disturbing.
> >
> > That is caused by the fact that the API of custom-load-symbaol has no
> means to respect the setting of
> > force-load-messages when loading a library.
> >
> > Please do note, that this analysis has been made by and is described in
> more detail in
> >
> >
> https://emacs.stackexchange.com/questions/82904/disable-echo-area-during-startup/82924#82924
>
> I don't think force-load-messages is what you want, because that
> variable is used for the opposite purpose: to avoid suppressing
> "Loading FOO..." messages.  Whereas you want to suppress those
> messages.
>
> I don't understand why you want to suppress those messages, though.
> Those messages are normal in Emacs: they are shown every time Emacs
> loads a Lisp package.  custom-load is not special in any way in this
> regard.
>
> Why is it important to suppress that?
>

[Message part 2 (text/html, inline)]

Message #14 received at 75553 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Johann Höchtl <johann.hoechtl <at> gmail.com>
Cc: 75553 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#75553: 31.0.50;
 custom-load-symbol should respect message verbosity
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2025 17:41:41 +0200

> From: Johann Höchtl <johann.hoechtl <at> gmail.com>
> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2025 16:26:27 +0100
> Cc: 75553 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> It's not important in the sense as it does not impair daily work. It is more the appearance of a tool spilling
> debug information which gives a somewhat unprofessional look. That's about it.

The "Loading..." messages are not debug messages, they are intended to
make the user aware that Emacs loaded a package.

But let's hear what others think about this, maybe we should have a
user option to silence these messages.  (There is already
inhibit-message, but it isn't supposed to be set globally, only
let-bound around small fragments of code.)

Message #17 received at 75553 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Konstantin Kharlamov <Hi-Angel <at> yandex.ru>
To: Johann Höchtl <johann.hoechtl <at> gmail.com>, Eli
 Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
Cc: 75553 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#75553: 31.0.50; custom-load-symbol should respect message
 verbosity
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2025 19:10:50 +0300

On Tue, 2025-01-14 at 16:26 +0100, Johann Höchtl wrote:
> It's not important in the sense as it does not impair daily work. It
> is more the appearance of a tool spilling debug information which
> gives a somewhat unprofessional look. That's about it.

Well, typically the "Loading" messages may only appear during Emacs
start-up (do they not for you?). It seems rational to me that when an
application starting up it may print its current loading status.

Message #20 received at 75553 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Johann Höchtl <johann.hoechtl <at> gmail.com>
To: Konstantin Kharlamov <Hi-Angel <at> yandex.ru>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, 75553 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#75553: 31.0.50;
 custom-load-symbol should respect message verbosity
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2025 17:12:53 +0100

[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]

It doesn't print Loading when I use-package but when demanded through
customize. That is not orthogonal.

Konstantin Kharlamov <Hi-Angel <at> yandex.ru> schrieb am Di., 14. Jän. 2025,
17:10:

> On Tue, 2025-01-14 at 16:26 +0100, Johann Höchtl wrote:
> > It's not important in the sense as it does not impair daily work. It
> > is more the appearance of a tool spilling debug information which
> > gives a somewhat unprofessional look. That's about it.
>
> Well, typically the "Loading" messages may only appear during Emacs
> start-up (do they not for you?). It seems rational to me that when an
> application starting up it may print its current loading status.
>

[Message part 2 (text/html, inline)]

Message #23 received at 75553 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Konstantin Kharlamov <Hi-Angel <at> yandex.ru>
To: Johann Höchtl <johann.hoechtl <at> gmail.com>
Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, 75553 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#75553: 31.0.50; custom-load-symbol should respect message
 verbosity
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2025 19:45:40 +0300

On Tue, 2025-01-14 at 17:12 +0100, Johann Höchtl wrote:
> It doesn't print Loading when I use-package but when demanded through
> customize. That is not orthogonal.

Right, but unless I'm missing something your comment doesn't contradict
to what I said. These are still messages that only appear during
startup.

> Konstantin Kharlamov <Hi-Angel <at> yandex.ru> schrieb am Di., 14. Jän.
> 2025, 17:10:
> > On Tue, 2025-01-14 at 16:26 +0100, Johann Höchtl wrote:
> > > It's not important in the sense as it does not impair daily work.
> > > It
> > > is more the appearance of a tool spilling debug information which
> > > gives a somewhat unprofessional look. That's about it.
> > 
> > Well, typically the "Loading" messages may only appear during Emacs
> > start-up (do they not for you?). It seems rational to me that when
> > an
> > application starting up it may print its current loading status.

Message #28 received at 75553-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):

From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
To: Konstantin Kharlamov <Hi-Angel <at> yandex.ru>
Cc: johann.hoechtl <at> gmail.com, 75553-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: bug#75553: 31.0.50; custom-load-symbol should respect message
 verbosity
Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2025 14:01:23 +0200

> From: Konstantin Kharlamov <Hi-Angel <at> yandex.ru>
> Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, 75553 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2025 19:45:40 +0300
> 
> On Tue, 2025-01-14 at 17:12 +0100, Johann Höchtl wrote:
> > It doesn't print Loading when I use-package but when demanded through
> > customize. That is not orthogonal.
> 
> Right, but unless I'm missing something your comment doesn't contradict
> to what I said. These are still messages that only appear during
> startup.
> 
> > Konstantin Kharlamov <Hi-Angel <at> yandex.ru> schrieb am Di., 14. Jän.
> > 2025, 17:10:
> > > On Tue, 2025-01-14 at 16:26 +0100, Johann Höchtl wrote:
> > > > It's not important in the sense as it does not impair daily work.
> > > > It
> > > > is more the appearance of a tool spilling debug information which
> > > > gives a somewhat unprofessional look. That's about it.
> > > 
> > > Well, typically the "Loading" messages may only appear during Emacs
> > > start-up (do they not for you?). It seems rational to me that when
> > > an
> > > application starting up it may print its current loading status.

No further comments, so I'm now closing this bug.

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