Package: emacs;
Reported by: Rudolf Adamkovič <rudolf <at> adamkovic.org>
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2025 11:21:01 UTC
Severity: wishlist
Found in version 31.0.50
Done: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
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bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org:bug#75804; Package emacs.
(Fri, 24 Jan 2025 11:21:01 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.Rudolf Adamkovič <rudolf <at> adamkovic.org>:bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org.
(Fri, 24 Jan 2025 11:21:01 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.Message #5 received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
From: Rudolf Adamkovič <rudolf <at> adamkovic.org> To: bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org Subject: 31.0.50; Enlarge or disable `ispell-help-timeout' Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2025 12:20:12 +0100
Greetings! As I observe my kids learning Emacs, I often see their struggles, which are mostly caused by "bad" defaults (bad for new users, that is). Many of these were discussed already: tiny default font, brutalist colors, unfriendly completions (not auto-visible nor auto-updating), no fuzzy matching, no spell checking, and more. Here, I would like to focus on yet-another "bad default" that makes my daughter struggle regularly: the 5-second `ispell-help-timeout'. For context, she is not confident with her spelling yet, but she does use Emacs every day to write her diary. The default `ispell-help-timeout' makes it impossible for her to use the Ispell menu comfortably and act confidently. Me, I cannot read the menu in 5 seconds either. For the reasons given, I suggest we increase the `ispell-help-timeout' to at least 60 seconds, or better disable it altogether. The help menu is actionable, it lets the user to type the relevant action key right away, so what is the purpose of the timeout, anyway? Thank you for your time. Rudy In GNU Emacs 31.0.50 (build 1, aarch64-apple-darwin24.2.0, NS appkit-2575.30 Version 15.2 (Build 24C101)) of 2025-01-23 built on Rudolfs-MacBook-Air.local Repository revision: ed5067e689a5e38795d5c27c5a688886d259a298 Repository branch: master Windowing system distributor 'Apple', version 10.3.2575 System Description: macOS 15.2 Configured using: 'configure --with-json --with-tree-sitter --with-sqlite3 --with-native-compilation=aot' Configured features: ACL GLIB GNUTLS LCMS2 LIBXML2 MODULES NATIVE_COMP NOTIFY KQUEUE NS PDUMPER PNG RSVG SQLITE3 THREADS TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS TREE_SITTER WEBP XIM ZLIB Important settings: value of $LC_ALL: en_US.UTF-8 value of $LANG: en_US.UTF-8 locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix Major mode: Magit Minor modes in effect: global-git-commit-mode: t magit-auto-revert-mode: t server-mode: t global-hl-line-mode: t global-diff-hl-mode: t marginalia-mode: t global-hi-lock-mode: t hi-lock-mode: t corfu-history-mode: t global-corfu-mode: t corfu-mode: t 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idna-mapping uni-confusable textsec-check qp sort notmuch notmuch-tree notmuch-jump notmuch-hello notmuch-show notmuch-print notmuch-crypto notmuch-mua notmuch-message notmuch-draft notmuch-maildir-fcc notmuch-address notmuch-company notmuch-parser notmuch-wash coolj icalendar diary-lib diary-loaddefs notmuch-tag notmuch-lib notmuch-version notmuch-compat mail-extr magit-patch emacsbug face-remap magit-extras magit-bookmark magit-submodule magit-blame magit-stash magit-reflog magit-bisect magit-push magit-pull magit-fetch magit-clone magit-remote magit-commit magit-sequence magit-notes magit-worktree magit-tag magit-merge magit-branch magit-reset magit-files magit-refs magit-status magit magit-repos magit-apply magit-wip magit-log which-func imenu magit-diff smerge-mode diff git-commit magit-core magit-autorevert magit-margin magit-transient magit-process with-editor server magit-mode benchmark magit-git magit-base magit-section cursor-sensor pulse color misearch multi-isearch tramp-cache time-stamp tramp-sh shortdoc network-stream nsm dictionary external-completion dictionary-connection tramp-cmds citar-org citar-capf citar citar-file citar-cache citar-format image-file image-converter disp-table char-fold hl-line diff-hl log-view log-edit add-log pcvs-util vc-dir ewoc pdf-loader marginalia hi-lock corfu-history corfu vertico-multiform vertico openwith hl-todo modus-operandi-tinted-theme modus-themes orderless package-vc vc lisp-mnt finder-inf paredit display-fill-column-indicator flyspell ispell fortune smtpmail display-line-numbers pixel-scroll cua-base delsel goto-addr cap-words superword subword saveplace comp comp-cstr oc-csl citeproc citeproc-itemgetters parsebib citeproc-cite citeproc-biblatex citeproc-bibtex citeproc-subbibs citeproc-sort citeproc-name citeproc-formatters citeproc-proc citeproc-disamb citeproc-itemdata citeproc-generic-elements citeproc-macro citeproc-choose citeproc-date citeproc-number rst citeproc-context citeproc-prange citeproc-style citeproc-locale citeproc-term f citeproc-rt citeproc-lib citeproc-s s let-alist queue dash autorevert diminish savehist bug-reference ox-texinfo ox-md ob-org ob-lisp org-habit org-clock ls-lisp ob-plantuml ob-fennel fennel-proto-repl fennel-mode inf-lisp ob-lua ob-dot ob-latex ob-java ob-R ob-C cc-mode cc-fonts cc-guess cc-menus cc-cmds cc-styles cc-align cc-engine cc-vars cc-defs ob-scheme ob-clojure ob-makefile ob-sqlite ob-sql ob-shell ob-python comp-run comp-common slime apropos arc-mode archive-mode hyperspec make-mode geiser-mode geiser-xref geiser-compile geiser-guile tramp trampver tramp-integration tramp-message tramp-compat tramp-loaddefs info-look transient geiser geiser-debug geiser-repl geiser-image geiser-capf geiser-doc geiser-menu geiser-autodoc geiser-edit etags fileloop xref geiser-completion geiser-eval geiser-connection tq geiser-syntax geiser-log geiser-popup geiser-impl help-fns radix-tree geiser-custom geiser-base scheme sql-indent sql view ebnf-mode python compat ruby-mode ox-odt rng-loc rng-uri rng-parse rng-match rng-dt rng-util rng-pttrn nxml-parse nxml-ns nxml-enc xmltok nxml-util ox-latex ox-icalendar org-agenda ox-html table ox-ascii ox-publish ox org-attach latex edmacro kmacro latex-flymake flymake project warnings tex-ispell tex-style tex crm texmathp auctex tex-mode compile shell elfeed-link elfeed-show elfeed-search elfeed-csv elfeed elfeed-curl elfeed-log xml-query bookmark pp elfeed-db elfeed-lib vc-git diff-mode track-changes easy-mmode files-x vc-dispatcher org-indent oc-basic cl-extra help-mode org-element org-persist org-id org-refile org-element-ast inline avl-tree generator ol-eww eww vtable url-queue mm-url ol-rmail ol-mhe ol-irc ol-info ol-gnus nnselect gnus-art mm-uu mml2015 mm-view mml-smime smime gnutls dig gnus-sum shr pixel-fill kinsoku url-file svg dom gnus-group gnus-undo gnus-start gnus-dbus dbus xml gnus-cloud nnimap nnmail mail-source utf7 nnoo parse-time gnus-spec gnus-int gnus-range message sendmail yank-media puny rfc822 mml mml-sec epa derived epg rfc6068 epg-config mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231 rfc2047 rfc2045 ietf-drums mailabbrev gmm-utils mailheader gnus-win gnus nnheader gnus-util text-property-search mail-utils range mm-util mail-prsvr wid-edit ol-docview doc-view filenotify jka-compr image-mode exif dired dired-loaddefs ol-bibtex bibtex iso8601 ol-bbdb ol-w3m ol-doi org-link-doi org ob ob-tangle ob-ref ob-lob ob-table ob-exp org-macro org-src sh-script smie treesit executable ob-comint org-pcomplete pcomplete comint ansi-osc ansi-color ring org-list org-footnote org-faces org-entities time-date noutline outline ob-emacs-lisp ob-core ob-eval org-cycle org-table ol rx org-fold org-fold-core org-keys oc org-loaddefs thingatpt find-func cal-menu calendar cal-loaddefs org-version org-compat org-macs format-spec aggressive-completion-autoloads auctex-autoloads tex-site avy-autoloads bbdb-autoloads blacken-autoloads bnf-mode-autoloads cape-autoloads chess-autoloads cider-autoloads citar-autoloads citeproc-autoloads clojure-mode-autoloads code-cells-autoloads corfu-autoloads diff-hl-autoloads diminish-autoloads drepl-autoloads comint-mime-autoloads ebnf-mode-autoloads ef-themes-autoloads elfeed-tube-mpv-autoloads elfeed-tube-autoloads aio-autoloads elfeed-autoloads ellama-autoloads ement-autoloads emms-autoloads f-autoloads geiser-guile-autoloads geiser-autoloads gptel-autoloads graphviz-dot-mode-autoloads hl-todo-autoloads htmlize-autoloads indent-bars-autoloads kotlin-mode-autoloads llm-autoloads lua-mode-autoloads magit-autoloads pcase marginalia-autoloads markdown-mode-autoloads mathjax-autoloads mentor-autoloads async-autoloads modus-themes-autoloads mpv-autoloads openwith-autoloads orderless-autoloads org-drill-autoloads org-autoloads paredit-autoloads parsebib-autoloads parseedn-autoloads parseclj-autoloads password-store-autoloads pdf-tools-autoloads persist-autoloads plz-event-source-autoloads plz-media-type-autoloads plz-autoloads queue-autoloads rainbow-mode-autoloads s-autoloads sesman-autoloads slime-autoloads macrostep-autoloads spinner-autoloads sql-indent-autoloads sqlup-mode-autoloads string-inflection-autoloads svg-lib-autoloads swift-mode-autoloads tablist-autoloads taxy-magit-section-autoloads taxy-autoloads magit-section-autoloads dash-autoloads telega-autoloads tempel-autoloads transient-autoloads url-scgi-autoloads vertico-autoloads visual-fill-column-autoloads vterm-autoloads info with-editor-autoloads xml-rpc-autoloads yaml-mode-autoloads package browse-url xdg url url-proxy url-privacy url-expand url-methods url-history url-cookie generate-lisp-file url-domsuf url-util mailcap url-handlers url-parse auth-source cl-seq eieio eieio-core cl-macs icons password-cache json subr-x map byte-opt gv bytecomp byte-compile url-vars cl-loaddefs cl-lib rmc iso-transl tooltip cconv eldoc paren electric uniquify ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type elisp-mode mwheel term/ns-win ns-win ucs-normalize mule-util term/common-win tool-bar dnd fontset image regexp-opt fringe tabulated-list replace newcomment text-mode lisp-mode prog-mode register page tab-bar menu-bar rfn-eshadow isearch easymenu timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax font-core term/tty-colors frame minibuffer nadvice seq simple cl-generic indonesian philippine cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese eucjp-ms cp51932 hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese composite emoji-zwj charscript charprop case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help abbrev obarray oclosure cl-preloaded button loaddefs theme-loaddefs faces cus-face macroexp files window text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget keymap hashtable-print-readable backquote threads kqueue cocoa ns lcms2 multi-tty make-network-process tty-child-frames native-compile emacs) Memory information: ((conses 16 2541020 272823) (symbols 48 61923 13) (strings 32 450295 13279) (string-bytes 1 12274933) (vectors 16 194023) (vector-slots 8 3151495 436115) (floats 8 924 1542) (intervals 56 238477 2764) (buffers 992 45)) -- "Mathematics takes us still further from what is human into the region of absolute necessity, to which not only the actual world, but every possible world, must conform." --- Bertrand Russell, 1902 Rudolf Adamkovič <rudolf <at> adamkovic.org> [he/him] http://adamkovic.org
bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org:bug#75804; Package emacs.
(Fri, 24 Jan 2025 12:17:01 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.Message #8 received at 75804 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> To: Rudolf Adamkovič <rudolf <at> adamkovic.org> Cc: 75804 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#75804: 31.0.50; Enlarge or disable `ispell-help-timeout' Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2025 14:16:11 +0200
> From: Rudolf Adamkovič <rudolf <at> adamkovic.org> > Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2025 12:20:12 +0100 > > As I observe my kids learning Emacs, I often see their struggles, which > are mostly caused by "bad" defaults (bad for new users, that is). Many > of these were discussed already: tiny default font, brutalist colors, > unfriendly completions (not auto-visible nor auto-updating), no fuzzy > matching, no spell checking, and more. Thank you so much for your friendly comments about Emacs defaults. > Here, I would like to focus on yet-another "bad default" that makes my > daughter struggle regularly: the 5-second `ispell-help-timeout'. For > context, she is not confident with her spelling yet, but she does use > Emacs every day to write her diary. The default `ispell-help-timeout' > makes it impossible for her to use the Ispell menu comfortably and act > confidently. Me, I cannot read the menu in 5 seconds either. > > For the reasons given, I suggest we increase the `ispell-help-timeout' > to at least 60 seconds, or better disable it altogether. The help menu > is actionable, it lets the user to type the relevant action key right > away, so what is the purpose of the timeout, anyway? This display is for people who already know about the possible actions, and just forgot which key activates which action. An Ispell newbie will be confused even if the timeout will be longer, because the descriptions of the actions are too terse to be useful. I think newbies should customize ispell-help-in-bufferp to the value 'electric', which will cause Emacs to pop up a *Help* buffer which pops down only when the user presses 'q'. However, I agree that the timeout is too short even if the user knows what are his/her options. How about increasing the timeout to 30 sec?
bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org:bug#75804; Package emacs.
(Sat, 25 Jan 2025 00:17:02 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.Message #11 received at 75804 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
From: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com> To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> Cc: Rudolf Adamkovič <rudolf <at> adamkovic.org>, 75804 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#75804: 31.0.50; Enlarge or disable `ispell-help-timeout' Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2025 18:16:02 -0600
Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes: >> From: Rudolf Adamkovič <rudolf <at> adamkovic.org> >> Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2025 12:20:12 +0100 >> >> As I observe my kids learning Emacs, I often see their struggles, which >> are mostly caused by "bad" defaults (bad for new users, that is). Many >> of these were discussed already: tiny default font, brutalist colors, >> unfriendly completions (not auto-visible nor auto-updating), no fuzzy >> matching, no spell checking, and more. > > Thank you so much for your friendly comments about Emacs defaults. FWIW, I agree that most of the above could bear improving. I'm also very excited to hear about users teaching Emacs to kids! That's the right spirit, and it's not often that we hear such stories on this bug tracker. So thanks for that. >> Here, I would like to focus on yet-another "bad default" that makes my >> daughter struggle regularly: the 5-second `ispell-help-timeout'. For >> context, she is not confident with her spelling yet, but she does use >> Emacs every day to write her diary. The default `ispell-help-timeout' >> makes it impossible for her to use the Ispell menu comfortably and act >> confidently. Me, I cannot read the menu in 5 seconds either. >> >> For the reasons given, I suggest we increase the `ispell-help-timeout' >> to at least 60 seconds, or better disable it altogether. The help menu >> is actionable, it lets the user to type the relevant action key right >> away, so what is the purpose of the timeout, anyway? > > This display is for people who already know about the possible > actions, and just forgot which key activates which action. An Ispell > newbie will be confused even if the timeout will be longer, because > the descriptions of the actions are too terse to be useful. I think > newbies should customize ispell-help-in-bufferp to the value > 'electric', which will cause Emacs to pop up a *Help* buffer which > pops down only when the user presses 'q'. > > However, I agree that the timeout is too short even if the user knows > what are his/her options. How about increasing the timeout to 30 sec? Increasing it to 30 seconds sounds good to me.
Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com>
to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org.
(Sat, 25 Jan 2025 00:17:02 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org:bug#75804; Package emacs.
(Sat, 25 Jan 2025 11:21:02 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.Message #16 received at 75804 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
From: Rudolf Adamkovič <rudolf <at> adamkovic.org> To: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> Cc: 75804 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#75804: 31.0.50; Enlarge or disable `ispell-help-timeout' Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2025 12:20:22 +0100
[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]
Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com> writes: > Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes: > >> How about increasing the timeout to 30 sec? > > Increasing it to 30 seconds sounds good to me. All right folks, here is a patch! Eli: I apologize if my words came across as passively aggressive. I did not mean to criticize Emacs defaults for the sake of it, like a troll would. Instead, I wanted to list the key defaults which caused problems, to my kids and also my friend. I am incredibly grateful for all your wisdom and guidance, Eli, both of which are much greater than what I have to offer. Again, I apologize for my wording. Stefan: Thank you for your nice words! It is crazy to _actually see_ how much difference the defaults make to someone who is just starting. Seeing that struggle is downright painful, especially if you know that Emacs could help them, and do it better than most programs. Both: Experts can easily customize Emacs, from helpful to minimal, but it does not work the other way around, so the infamous "newbies should customize ..." is problematic. Me, I think being helpful by default, instead of minimalist, makes more sense. Rudy
[0001-Ispell-Increase-help-timeout.patch (text/x-patch, attachment)]
[Message part 3 (text/plain, inline)]
-- “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” --- George Santayana, Life of Reason: Reason in Common Sense, 1905 Rudolf Adamkovič <rudolf <at> adamkovic.org> [he/him] http://adamkovic.org
bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org:bug#75804; Package emacs.
(Sat, 25 Jan 2025 11:25:02 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.Message #19 received at 75804 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
From: Rudolf Adamkovič <rudolf <at> adamkovic.org> To: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> Cc: 75804 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#75804: 31.0.50; Enlarge or disable `ispell-help-timeout' Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2025 12:24:22 +0100
[Message part 1 (text/plain, inline)]
Rudolf Adamkovič <rudolf <at> adamkovic.org> writes: > All right folks, here is a patch! And, of course, I screwed it up. :) Here is a new patch, this time with the correct bug reference number.
[0001-Ispell-Increase-help-timeout.patch (text/x-patch, attachment)]
[Message part 3 (text/plain, inline)]
-- "'Obvious' is all too often a synonym for 'wrong'." --- Jeff Erickson, Algorithms, 2019 Rudolf Adamkovič <rudolf <at> adamkovic.org> [he/him] http://adamkovic.org
bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org:bug#75804; Package emacs.
(Sun, 26 Jan 2025 11:14:02 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.Message #22 received at 75804 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
From: Robert Pluim <rpluim <at> gmail.com> To: Rudolf Adamkovič <rudolf <at> adamkovic.org> Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, 75804 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com> Subject: Re: bug#75804: 31.0.50; Enlarge or disable `ispell-help-timeout' Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2025 12:13:15 +0100
>>>>> On Sat, 25 Jan 2025 12:24:22 +0100, Rudolf Adamkovič <rudolf <at> adamkovic.org> said:
Rudolf> Rudolf Adamkovič <rudolf <at> adamkovic.org> writes:
>> All right folks, here is a patch!
Rudolf> And, of course, I screwed it up. :)
Rudolf> Here is a new patch, this time with the correct bug reference number.
Rudolf> From d8ded5bcba933cb057572807473f9699d7db4919 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
Rudolf> From: =?UTF-8?q?Rudolf=20Adamkovi=C4=8D?= <rudolf <at> adamkovic.org>
Rudolf> Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2025 11:24:34 +0100
Rudolf> Subject: [PATCH] Ispell: Increase help timeout
Rudolf> * lisp/textmodes/ispell.el (ispell-help-timeout): Increase the timeout
Rudolf> from 5 to 30 seconds to allow users, especially new users, read the
Rudolf> Ispell help menu comfortably and act confidently (bug#75804).
Rudolf> ---
Rudolf> lisp/textmodes/ispell.el | 2 +-
Rudolf> 1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 1 deletion(-)
Rudolf> diff --git a/lisp/textmodes/ispell.el b/lisp/textmodes/ispell.el
Rudolf> index b0f4e416a6e..eca42b63023 100644
Rudolf> --- a/lisp/textmodes/ispell.el
Rudolf> +++ b/lisp/textmodes/ispell.el
Rudolf> @@ -402,7 +402,7 @@ ispell-local-dictionary-alist
Rudolf> (const :tag "default" nil))
Rudolf> (coding-system :tag "Coding System"))))
Rudolf> -(defcustom ispell-help-timeout 5
Rudolf> +(defcustom ispell-help-timeout 30
Rudolf> "The number of seconds to display the help text."
Rudolf> :type 'number
Rudolf> :version "28.1")
Rudolf> --
Rudolf> 2.39.5 (Apple Git-154)
When the default value of a defcustom is changed, the :version tag
needs to be updated (in this case to "31.1").
Robert
--
bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org:bug#75804; Package emacs.
(Sun, 26 Jan 2025 13:16:02 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.Message #25 received at 75804 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
From: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com> To: Rudolf Adamkovič <rudolf <at> adamkovic.org>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> Cc: 75804 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#75804: 31.0.50; Enlarge or disable `ispell-help-timeout' Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2025 07:15:45 -0600
Rudolf Adamkovič <rudolf <at> adamkovic.org> writes: > From d8ded5bcba933cb057572807473f9699d7db4919 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 > From: =?UTF-8?q?Rudolf=20Adamkovi=C4=8D?= <rudolf <at> adamkovic.org> > Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2025 11:24:34 +0100 > Subject: [PATCH] Ispell: Increase help timeout > > * lisp/textmodes/ispell.el (ispell-help-timeout): Increase the timeout > from 5 to 30 seconds to allow users, especially new users, read the > Ispell help menu comfortably and act confidently (bug#75804). Thanks. 1. I don't see that we support a nil value, so I think we should add it, and `nil` should mean "never time out". This would be easier to set than (setq ispell-help-timeout most-positive-fixnum). 2. I gave this a try, but actually I'm not at all sure why we should hide the buffer at all, by default. The user asked to show it, after all, and Emacs is waiting for them to hit a key. IMO, it is hard to even understand the purpose of this hiding "feature". I think we should just leave it on the screen, which is what the help system does everywhere else. Users who _really_ want to hide it, for some reason that I don't understand, will just have to customize it back. So I'm in favor of a `nil` default. The above 1-2 should be documented in NEWS. 3. We should probably consider this, because a value <1 is rather useless and more likely than not a user mistake: diff --git a/lisp/textmodes/ispell.el b/lisp/textmodes/ispell.el index 761a413baab..7b1f5c8ed7f 100644 --- a/lisp/textmodes/ispell.el +++ b/lisp/textmodes/ispell.el @@ -2513,7 +2513,7 @@ ispell-help (with-current-buffer buffer (insert (concat help-1 "\n" help-2 "\n" help-3))) (ispell-display-buffer buffer) - (sit-for ispell-help-timeout) + (sit-for (max ispell-help-timeout 1)) (kill-buffer "*Ispell Help*")) (unwind-protect (let ((resize-mini-windows 'grow-only)) @@ -2523,7 +2523,7 @@ ispell-help ;;(set-minibuffer-window (selected-window)) (enlarge-window 2) (insert (concat help-1 "\n" help-2 "\n" help-3)) - (sit-for ispell-help-timeout)) + (sit-for (max ispell-help-timeout 1))) (erase-buffer))))))) (define-obsolete-function-alias 'lookup-words 'ispell-lookup-words "24.4") > --- > lisp/textmodes/ispell.el | 2 +- > 1 file changed, 1 insertion(+), 1 deletion(-) > > diff --git a/lisp/textmodes/ispell.el b/lisp/textmodes/ispell.el > index b0f4e416a6e..eca42b63023 100644 > --- a/lisp/textmodes/ispell.el > +++ b/lisp/textmodes/ispell.el > @@ -402,7 +402,7 @@ ispell-local-dictionary-alist > (const :tag "default" nil)) > (coding-system :tag "Coding System")))) > > -(defcustom ispell-help-timeout 5 > +(defcustom ispell-help-timeout 30 > "The number of seconds to display the help text." > :type 'number > :version "28.1") The :type should be 'natnum instead, and the :version tag needs updating like Robert pointed out. > -- > 2.39.5 (Apple Git-154)
bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org:bug#75804; Package emacs.
(Sun, 26 Jan 2025 13:26:02 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.Message #28 received at 75804 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> To: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com> Cc: rudolf <at> adamkovic.org, 75804 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#75804: 31.0.50; Enlarge or disable `ispell-help-timeout' Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2025 15:25:32 +0200
> From: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com> > Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2025 07:15:45 -0600 > Cc: 75804 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > > 1. I don't see that we support a nil value, so I think we should add it, > and `nil` should mean "never time out". This would be easier to set > than (setq ispell-help-timeout most-positive-fixnum). > > 2. I gave this a try, but actually I'm not at all sure why we should > hide the buffer at all, by default. The user asked to show it, after > all, and Emacs is waiting for them to hit a key. IMO, it is hard to > even understand the purpose of this hiding "feature". > > I think we should just leave it on the screen, which is what the help > system does everywhere else. Users who _really_ want to hide it, for > some reason that I don't understand, will just have to customize it > back. So I'm in favor of a `nil` default. If the user wants the help not to pop down, ever, they should instead customize ispell-help-in-bufferp to the value 'electric'. As I wrote up-thread, keeping the terse help indefinitely makes little sense to me, since it is nothing more than a short reminder, and is not useful for people who use Ispell the first time. Not that I'm against the changes you propose, but at least let's mention the ispell-help-in-bufferp alternative in the doc streing of ispell-help-timeout, so that people who want to set it to nil will have the opportunity of considering the (IMO better) alternative.
bug-gnu-emacs <at> gnu.org:bug#75804; Package emacs.
(Sun, 26 Jan 2025 14:32:03 GMT) Full text and rfc822 format available.Message #31 received at 75804 <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
From: Pip Cet <pipcet <at> protonmail.com> To: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas <at> gmail.com> Cc: Rudolf Adamkovič <rudolf <at> adamkovic.org>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>, 75804 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#75804: 31.0.50; Enlarge or disable `ispell-help-timeout' Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2025 14:31:38 +0000
"Stefan Kangas" <stefankangas <at> gmail.com> writes: > 3. We should probably consider this, because a value <1 is rather > useless and more likely than not a user mistake: > diff --git a/lisp/textmodes/ispell.el b/lisp/textmodes/ispell.el > index 761a413baab..7b1f5c8ed7f 100644 > --- a/lisp/textmodes/ispell.el > +++ b/lisp/textmodes/ispell.el > @@ -2513,7 +2513,7 @@ ispell-help > (with-current-buffer buffer > (insert (concat help-1 "\n" help-2 "\n" help-3))) > (ispell-display-buffer buffer) > - (sit-for ispell-help-timeout) > + (sit-for (max ispell-help-timeout 1)) > (kill-buffer "*Ispell Help*")) > (unwind-protect > (let ((resize-mini-windows 'grow-only)) > @@ -2523,7 +2523,7 @@ ispell-help > ;;(set-minibuffer-window (selected-window)) > (enlarge-window 2) > (insert (concat help-1 "\n" help-2 "\n" help-3)) > - (sit-for ispell-help-timeout)) > + (sit-for (max ispell-help-timeout 1))) > (erase-buffer))))))) > > (define-obsolete-function-alias 'lookup-words 'ispell-lookup-words "24.4") I'm not sure 0 is useful, but what about 0.5? >> diff --git a/lisp/textmodes/ispell.el b/lisp/textmodes/ispell.el >> index b0f4e416a6e..eca42b63023 100644 >> --- a/lisp/textmodes/ispell.el >> +++ b/lisp/textmodes/ispell.el >> @@ -402,7 +402,7 @@ ispell-local-dictionary-alist >> (const :tag "default" nil)) >> (coding-system :tag "Coding System")))) >> >> -(defcustom ispell-help-timeout 5 >> +(defcustom ispell-help-timeout 30 >> "The number of seconds to display the help text." >> :type 'number >> :version "28.1") > > The :type should be 'natnum instead, and the :version tag needs updating > like Robert pointed out. It's not immediately obvious to me, from the code, why this cannot be a float. Can you explain? Thanks! Pip
Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>:Rudolf Adamkovič <rudolf <at> adamkovic.org>:Message #36 received at 75804-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org (full text, mbox):
From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> To: Rudolf Adamkovič <rudolf <at> adamkovic.org> Cc: stefankangas <at> gmail.com, 75804-done <at> debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#75804: 31.0.50; Enlarge or disable `ispell-help-timeout' Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2025 13:27:32 +0200
> From: Rudolf Adamkovič <rudolf <at> adamkovic.org> > Cc: 75804 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2025 12:24:22 +0100 > > Rudolf Adamkovič <rudolf <at> adamkovic.org> writes: > > > All right folks, here is a patch! > > And, of course, I screwed it up. :) > > Here is a new patch, this time with the correct bug reference number. Thanks, installed on the master branch, and closing the bug.
Debbugs Internal Request <help-debbugs <at> gnu.org>
to internal_control <at> debbugs.gnu.org.
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