GNU bug report logs - #75828
[PATCH] Correct make-frame docstring vis-a-vis make_frame.c

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Package: emacs; Reported by: Ship Mints <shipmints@HIDDEN>; Keywords: patch; dated Sat, 25 Jan 2025 14:15:02 UTC; Maintainer for emacs is bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.

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From: Ship Mints <shipmints@HIDDEN>
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2025 14:28:32 -0500
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Subject: Re: bug#75828: [PATCH] Correct make-frame docstring vis-a-vis
 make_frame.c
To: martin rudalics <rudalics@HIDDEN>
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--0000000000007e19f9062c8cdf51
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If we use a buffer local, I'll have to remove it after make-frame is
complete. If a let-bound variable, users would not have to remember to do
this. Either way, make_frame needs to ignore the specified buffer that
happens to be hidden.

On Sat, Jan 25, 2025 at 2:17=E2=80=AFPM martin rudalics <rudalics@HIDDEN> w=
rote:

>  > I'd be happy with a new defvar (not even a defcustom) and I'll bind it
> all
>  > the time (except in packages where I'll bind it around make-frame
> calls).
>
> I think a new automatically buffer-local variable, say
> 'display-via-make-frame', would not harm anyone.
>
> martin
>

--0000000000007e19f9062c8cdf51
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospac=
e">If we use a buffer local, I&#39;ll have to remove it after make-frame is=
 complete. If a let-bound variable, users would not have to remember to do =
this. Either way, make_frame needs to ignore the specified buffer that happ=
ens to be hidden.</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_cont=
ainer"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Jan 25, 2025 at 2:17=
=E2=80=AFPM martin rudalics &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rudalics@HIDDEN">rudalics=
@gmx.at</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-lef=
t:1ex">=C2=A0&gt; I&#39;d be happy with a new defvar (not even a defcustom)=
 and I&#39;ll bind it all<br>
=C2=A0&gt; the time (except in packages where I&#39;ll bind it around make-=
frame calls).<br>
<br>
I think a new automatically buffer-local variable, say<br>
&#39;display-via-make-frame&#39;, would not harm anyone.<br>
<br>
martin<br>
</blockquote></div>

--0000000000007e19f9062c8cdf51--




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#75828; Package emacs. Full text available.

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Subject: Re: bug#75828: [PATCH] Correct make-frame docstring vis-a-vis
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To: Ship Mints <shipmints@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
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 > I'd be happy with a new defvar (not even a defcustom) and I'll bind it all
 > the time (except in packages where I'll bind it around make-frame calls).

I think a new automatically buffer-local variable, say
'display-via-make-frame', would not harm anyone.

martin




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#75828; Package emacs. Full text available.

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From: Ship Mints <shipmints@HIDDEN>
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2025 11:54:08 -0500
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Subject: Re: bug#75828: [PATCH] Correct make-frame docstring vis-a-vis
 make_frame.c
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
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--00000000000056b7f6062c8ab7a9
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I'd be happy with a new defvar (not even a defcustom) and I'll bind it all
the time (except in packages where I'll bind it around make-frame calls).

On Sat, Jan 25, 2025 at 11:43=E2=80=AFAM Ship Mints <shipmints@HIDDEN> w=
rote:

> Not a new function, just a way to influence make_frame to not test the
> current buffer being hidden.
>
> On Sat, Jan 25, 2025 at 11:43=E2=80=AFAM Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> wro=
te:
>
>> > From: Ship Mints <shipmints@HIDDEN>
>> > Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2025 11:31:31 -0500
>> > Cc: stefankangas@HIDDEN, 75828 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>> >
>> > I appreciate the tips and discussion.
>> >
>> > (let ((pop-up-frames t))
>> >   (pop-to-buffer " *string-pixel-width*"))
>> >
>> > is identical to the wonky snippet, first showing the unwanted buffer
>> then switching to the wanted buffer (and
>> > first paying the display cost for the original buffer).
>>
>> That still doesn't justify a new function, IMO.  But maybe Martin will
>> have even better suggestions.
>>
>

--00000000000056b7f6062c8ab7a9
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospac=
e">I&#39;d be happy with a new defvar (not even a defcustom) and I&#39;ll b=
ind it all the time (except in packages where I&#39;ll bind it around make-=
frame calls).</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_containe=
r"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Jan 25, 2025 at 11:43=E2=
=80=AFAM Ship Mints &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:shipmints@HIDDEN">shipmints@gm=
ail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-lef=
t:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:m=
onospace">Not a new function, just a way to influence make_frame to not tes=
t the current buffer being hidden.</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote=
"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Jan 25, 2025 at 11:43=E2=80=
=AFAM Eli Zaretskii &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:eliz@HIDDEN" target=3D"_blank">e=
liz@HIDDEN</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding=
-left:1ex">&gt; From: Ship Mints &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:shipmints@HIDDEN"=
 target=3D"_blank">shipmints@HIDDEN</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2025 11:31:31 -0500<br>
&gt; Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:stefankangas@HIDDEN" target=3D"_blank">stefan=
kangas@HIDDEN</a>, <a href=3D"mailto:75828 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" target=3D"_b=
lank">75828 <at> debbugs.gnu.org</a><br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; I appreciate the tips and discussion.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; (let ((pop-up-frames t))<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0(pop-to-buffer &quot; *string-pixel-width*&quot;))<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; is identical to the wonky snippet, first showing the unwanted buffer t=
hen switching to the wanted buffer (and<br>
&gt; first paying the display cost for the original buffer).<br>
<br>
That still doesn&#39;t justify a new function, IMO.=C2=A0 But maybe Martin =
will<br>
have even better suggestions.<br>
</blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div>

--00000000000056b7f6062c8ab7a9--




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#75828; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 75828 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: Ship Mints <shipmints@HIDDEN>
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Subject: Re: bug#75828: [PATCH] Correct make-frame docstring vis-a-vis
 make_frame.c
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
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--000000000000e7ea69062c8a8f1d
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Not a new function, just a way to influence make_frame to not test the
current buffer being hidden.

On Sat, Jan 25, 2025 at 11:43=E2=80=AFAM Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> wrote=
:

> > From: Ship Mints <shipmints@HIDDEN>
> > Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2025 11:31:31 -0500
> > Cc: stefankangas@HIDDEN, 75828 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> >
> > I appreciate the tips and discussion.
> >
> > (let ((pop-up-frames t))
> >   (pop-to-buffer " *string-pixel-width*"))
> >
> > is identical to the wonky snippet, first showing the unwanted buffer
> then switching to the wanted buffer (and
> > first paying the display cost for the original buffer).
>
> That still doesn't justify a new function, IMO.  But maybe Martin will
> have even better suggestions.
>

--000000000000e7ea69062c8a8f1d
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospac=
e">Not a new function, just a way to influence make_frame to not test the c=
urrent buffer being hidden.</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_=
quote_container"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Jan 25, 2025=
 at 11:43=E2=80=AFAM Eli Zaretskii &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:eliz@HIDDEN">eliz=
@gnu.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-le=
ft:1ex">&gt; From: Ship Mints &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:shipmints@HIDDEN" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">shipmints@HIDDEN</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2025 11:31:31 -0500<br>
&gt; Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:stefankangas@HIDDEN" target=3D"_blank">stefan=
kangas@HIDDEN</a>, <a href=3D"mailto:75828 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" target=3D"_b=
lank">75828 <at> debbugs.gnu.org</a><br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; I appreciate the tips and discussion.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; (let ((pop-up-frames t))<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0(pop-to-buffer &quot; *string-pixel-width*&quot;))<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; is identical to the wonky snippet, first showing the unwanted buffer t=
hen switching to the wanted buffer (and<br>
&gt; first paying the display cost for the original buffer).<br>
<br>
That still doesn&#39;t justify a new function, IMO.=C2=A0 But maybe Martin =
will<br>
have even better suggestions.<br>
</blockquote></div>

--000000000000e7ea69062c8a8f1d--




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#75828; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 75828 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2025 18:43:08 +0200
Message-Id: <86plkau9nn.fsf@HIDDEN>
From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
To: Ship Mints <shipmints@HIDDEN>,
 martin rudalics <rudalics@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <CAN+1HbrCwGnGiNHDkJA+tBLsqaetdL4zcak9VT3Ga1cWo6V+dQ@HIDDEN>
 (message from Ship Mints on Sat, 25 Jan 2025 11:31:31 -0500)
Subject: Re: bug#75828: [PATCH] Correct make-frame docstring vis-a-vis
 make_frame.c
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> From: Ship Mints <shipmints@HIDDEN>
> Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2025 11:31:31 -0500
> Cc: stefankangas@HIDDEN, 75828 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> I appreciate the tips and discussion.
> 
> (let ((pop-up-frames t))
>   (pop-to-buffer " *string-pixel-width*"))
> 
> is identical to the wonky snippet, first showing the unwanted buffer then switching to the wanted buffer (and
> first paying the display cost for the original buffer).

That still doesn't justify a new function, IMO.  But maybe Martin will
have even better suggestions.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#75828; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 75828 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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Subject: Re: bug#75828: [PATCH] Correct make-frame docstring vis-a-vis
 make_frame.c
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--0000000000006fb14b062c8a6654
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I appreciate the tips and discussion.

(let ((pop-up-frames t))
  (pop-to-buffer " *string-pixel-width*"))

is identical to the wonky snippet, first showing the unwanted buffer then
switching to the wanted buffer (and first paying the display cost for the
original buffer).



On Sat, Jan 25, 2025 at 11:26=E2=80=AFAM Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> wrote=
:

> > From: Ship Mints <shipmints@HIDDEN>
> > Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2025 10:47:27 -0500
> > Cc: stefankangas@HIDDEN, 75828 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> >
> > Because I want a guaranteed new frame with the explicitly specified
> buffer.
>
> And pop-to-buffer cannot guarantee that?
>

--0000000000006fb14b062c8a6654
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospac=
e">I appreciate the tips and discussion.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-family:monospace"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" styl=
e=3D"font-family:monospace">(let ((pop-up-frames t))<br>=C2=A0 (pop-to-buff=
er &quot; *string-pixel-width*&quot;))</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" st=
yle=3D"font-family:monospace"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-family:monospace">is identical to the wonky snippet, first showing=
 the unwanted buffer then switching to the wanted buffer (and first paying =
the display cost for the original buffer).</div><div class=3D"gmail_default=
" style=3D"font-family:monospace"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" st=
yle=3D"font-family:monospace"><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote=
 gmail_quote_container"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Jan 2=
5, 2025 at 11:26=E2=80=AFAM Eli Zaretskii &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:eliz@HIDDEN=
g">eliz@HIDDEN</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" s=
tyle=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);pad=
ding-left:1ex">&gt; From: Ship Mints &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:shipmints@gmail.=
com" target=3D"_blank">shipmints@HIDDEN</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2025 10:47:27 -0500<br>
&gt; Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:stefankangas@HIDDEN" target=3D"_blank">stefan=
kangas@HIDDEN</a>, <a href=3D"mailto:75828 <at> debbugs.gnu.org" target=3D"_b=
lank">75828 <at> debbugs.gnu.org</a><br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Because I want a guaranteed new frame with the explicitly specified bu=
ffer.<br>
<br>
And pop-to-buffer cannot guarantee that?<br>
</blockquote></div>

--0000000000006fb14b062c8a6654--




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
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Message received at 75828 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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Subject: Re: bug#75828: [PATCH] Correct make-frame docstring vis-a-vis
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> From: Ship Mints <shipmints@HIDDEN>
> Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2025 10:47:27 -0500
> Cc: stefankangas@HIDDEN, 75828 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> Because I want a guaranteed new frame with the explicitly specified buffer.

And pop-to-buffer cannot guarantee that?




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#75828; Package emacs. Full text available.

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From: Ship Mints <shipmints@HIDDEN>
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2025 10:47:27 -0500
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Subject: Re: bug#75828: [PATCH] Correct make-frame docstring vis-a-vis
 make_frame.c
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
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Because I want a guaranteed new frame with the explicitly specified buffer.

I assume this is also an issue for child frames--make_frame doesn't
distinguish during buffer selection?

The following works but is wonky (kind of annoying) because it first shows
a non-hidden buffer, and then switches to the one I really want (note that
string pixel width is just an example that we all have at hand):

(with-selected-frame (make-frame)
  ;; (select-frame-set-input-focus (selected-frame)) ; might need based on
platform
  (switch-to-buffer " *string-pixel-width*"))

-Stephane

On Sat, Jan 25, 2025 at 10:32=E2=80=AFAM Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> wrote=
:

> > From: Ship Mints <shipmints@HIDDEN>
> > Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2025 10:21:52 -0500
> > Cc: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN>, 75828 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> >
> > I tried. It looks like having a control of some kind for make-frame, or
> altering make_frame to not use
> > other_buffer_safely, are the only options.
> >
> > make_frame calls other_buffer_safely which ignores the suggested frame
> parameters.
>
> Can you tell why you must use make-frame and not, say,
> switch-to-buffer-other-frame?
>

--000000000000dcf9cc062c89c8b4
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospac=
e">Because I want a guaranteed new frame with the explicitly specified buff=
er.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospace"><br><=
/div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospace">I assume =
this is also an issue for child frames--make_frame doesn&#39;t distinguish =
during buffer selection?</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-fa=
mily:monospace"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family=
:monospace">The following works but is wonky (kind of annoying) because it =
first shows a non-hidden buffer, and then switches to the one I really want=
 (note that string pixel width is just an example that we all have at hand)=
:</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospace"><br></d=
iv><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospace">(with-selec=
ted-frame (make-frame)<br>=C2=A0 ;; (select-frame-set-input-focus (selected=
-frame)) ; might need based on platform<br>=C2=A0 (switch-to-buffer &quot; =
*string-pixel-width*&quot;))<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D=
"font-family:monospace"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon=
t-family:monospace">-Stephane</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fo=
nt-family:monospace"></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_=
container"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Jan 25, 2025 at 10=
:32=E2=80=AFAM Eli Zaretskii &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:eliz@HIDDEN">eliz@HIDDEN=
rg</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margi=
n:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex=
">&gt; From: Ship Mints &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:shipmints@HIDDEN" target=
=3D"_blank">shipmints@HIDDEN</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2025 10:21:52 -0500<br>
&gt; Cc: Stefan Kangas &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stefankangas@HIDDEN" target=
=3D"_blank">stefankangas@HIDDEN</a>&gt;, <a href=3D"mailto:75828@debbugs=
.gnu.org" target=3D"_blank">75828 <at> debbugs.gnu.org</a><br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; I tried. It looks like having a control of some kind for make-frame, o=
r altering make_frame to not use<br>
&gt; other_buffer_safely, are the only options.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; make_frame calls other_buffer_safely which ignores the suggested frame=
 parameters.<br>
<br>
Can you tell why you must use make-frame and not, say,<br>
switch-to-buffer-other-frame?<br>
</blockquote></div>

--000000000000dcf9cc062c89c8b4--




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 (message from Ship Mints on Sat, 25 Jan 2025 10:21:52 -0500)
Subject: Re: bug#75828: [PATCH] Correct make-frame docstring vis-a-vis
 make_frame.c
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> From: Ship Mints <shipmints@HIDDEN>
> Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2025 10:21:52 -0500
> Cc: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN>, 75828 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> I tried. It looks like having a control of some kind for make-frame, or altering make_frame to not use
> other_buffer_safely, are the only options.
> 
> make_frame calls other_buffer_safely which ignores the suggested frame parameters.

Can you tell why you must use make-frame and not, say,
switch-to-buffer-other-frame?




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#75828; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 75828 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: Ship Mints <shipmints@HIDDEN>
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2025 10:21:52 -0500
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Subject: Re: bug#75828: [PATCH] Correct make-frame docstring vis-a-vis
 make_frame.c
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
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I tried. It looks like having a control of some kind for make-frame, or
altering make_frame to not use other_buffer_safely, are the only options.

make_frame calls other_buffer_safely which ignores the suggested frame
parameters.

From buffer.c:

/* The following function is a safe variant of Fother_buffer: It doesn't
   pay attention to any frame-local buffer lists, doesn't care about
   visibility of buffers, and doesn't evaluate any frame predicates.  */

Lisp_Object
other_buffer_safely (Lisp_Object buffer)


On Sat, Jan 25, 2025 at 9:56=E2=80=AFAM Ship Mints <shipmints@HIDDEN> wr=
ote:

> Sure, I'll use buffer-list / buffer-predicate and beat my make-frame
> calls into submission.
>
> In the end, this was a surprise and it took a while to figure out why
> make-frame wasn't doing what I asked. I had to read the code for make_fra=
me
> to figure this out. That, alone, is a good reason to at least mention it =
in
> the docstring, and will save some other people time.
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 25, 2025 at 9:47=E2=80=AFAM Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> wrot=
e:
>
>> > From: Ship Mints <shipmints@HIDDEN>
>> > Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2025 09:12:50 -0500
>> >
>> > make-frame's docstring says "creates and returns a new frame,
>> displaying the current buffer." This is not
>> > true if the buffer is considered conventionally hidden.
>> >
>> > struct frame *
>> > make_frame (bool mini_p)
>> > ...
>> >     Lisp_Object buf =3D Fcurrent_buffer ();
>> >     /* If current buffer is hidden, try to find another one.  */
>> >     if (BUFFER_HIDDEN_P (XBUFFER (buf)))
>> >       buf =3D other_buffer_safely (buf);
>> >
>> > I'd prefer to have an option to be literal and allow users to make a
>> frame on a hidden current buffer.
>>
>> You can have that already via buffer-list and/or buffer-predicate frame
>> parameters, no?
>>
>> > --- a/lisp/frame.el
>> > +++ b/lisp/frame.el
>> > @@ -915,6 +915,10 @@ x-display-name
>> >
>> >  (defun make-frame (&optional parameters)
>> >    "Return a newly created frame displaying the current buffer.
>> > +If the current buffer is hidden (its name starts with a space
>> > +character), then another buffer is chosen to display following the
>> > +semantics of `other-buffer'.
>>
>> Thanks, but this is inaccurate: it is incorrect, for example, if
>> PARAMETERS include '((minibuffer . only)).
>>
>> I'm not sure we should reveal those details here.  Hidden buffers are
>> handled specially in many places in Emacs, and I don't think we spell
>> that out in every doc string.
>>
>> Stefan, WDYT?
>>
>> In any case, if we do decide to make this change, the ELisp manual
>> should also be changed.
>>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospac=
e">I tried. It looks like having a control of some=C2=A0kind for make-frame=
, or altering make_frame to not use other_buffer_safely, are the only optio=
ns.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospace"><br><=
/div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospace">make_fram=
e calls other_buffer_safely which ignores the suggested frame parameters.</=
div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospace"><br></div>=
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospace">From buffer.c:=
</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospace"><br></di=
v><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospace">/* The follo=
wing function is a safe variant of Fother_buffer: It doesn&#39;t<br>=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0pay attention to any frame-local buffer lists, doesn&#39;t care about=
<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0visibility of buffers, and doesn&#39;t evaluate any frame =
predicates. =C2=A0*/<br><br>Lisp_Object<br>other_buffer_safely (Lisp_Object=
 buffer)<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospa=
ce"><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Jan 25, 2025 at 9:56=E2=80=AFAM=
 Ship Mints &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:shipmints@HIDDEN">shipmints@HIDDEN<=
/a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0=
px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><=
div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default"><font face=3D"monospace">Sure,=
 I&#39;ll use=C2=A0<code style=3D"line-height:1.4em;color:rgb(0,0,0)">buffe=
r-list</code><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0)">=C2=A0/=C2=A0</span><code sty=
le=3D"line-height:1.4em;color:rgb(0,0,0)">buffer-predicate and beat my make=
-frame calls into submission.</code></font></div><div class=3D"gmail_defaul=
t"><code style=3D"line-height:1.4em;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></code></div><div=
 class=3D"gmail_default"><code style=3D"line-height:1.4em;color:rgb(0,0,0)"=
>In the end, this was a surprise and it took a while to figure out why make=
-frame wasn&#39;t doing what I asked. I had to read the code for make_frame=
 to figure this out. That, alone, is a good reason to at least mention it i=
n the docstring, and will save some other people time.</code></div><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospace"><code style=3D"line-he=
ight:1.4em;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:16px"><br></code></div></div><br><div=
 class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Jan 25=
, 2025 at 9:47=E2=80=AFAM Eli Zaretskii &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:eliz@HIDDEN"=
 target=3D"_blank">eliz@HIDDEN</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rg=
b(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">&gt; From: Ship Mints &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:shipmints@HIDDEN" target=3D"_blank">shipmints@HIDDEN</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2025 09:12:50 -0500<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; make-frame&#39;s docstring says &quot;creates and returns a new frame,=
 displaying the current buffer.&quot; This is not<br>
&gt; true if the buffer is considered conventionally hidden.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; struct frame *<br>
&gt; make_frame (bool mini_p)<br>
&gt; ...<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Lisp_Object buf =3D Fcurrent_buffer ();<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0/* If current buffer is hidden, try to find another=
 one.=C2=A0 */<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0if (BUFFER_HIDDEN_P (XBUFFER (buf)))<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0buf =3D other_buffer_safely (buf);<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; I&#39;d prefer to have an option to be literal and allow users to make=
 a frame on a hidden current buffer.<br>
<br>
You can have that already via buffer-list and/or buffer-predicate frame<br>
parameters, no?<br>
<br>
&gt; --- a/lisp/frame.el<br>
&gt; +++ b/lisp/frame.el<br>
&gt; @@ -915,6 +915,10 @@ x-display-name<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 (defun make-frame (&amp;optional parameters)<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &quot;Return a newly created frame displaying the current=
 buffer.<br>
&gt; +If the current buffer is hidden (its name starts with a space<br>
&gt; +character), then another buffer is chosen to display following the<br=
>
&gt; +semantics of `other-buffer&#39;.<br>
<br>
Thanks, but this is inaccurate: it is incorrect, for example, if<br>
PARAMETERS include &#39;((minibuffer . only)).<br>
<br>
I&#39;m not sure we should reveal those details here.=C2=A0 Hidden buffers =
are<br>
handled specially in many places in Emacs, and I don&#39;t think we spell<b=
r>
that out in every doc string.<br>
<br>
Stefan, WDYT?<br>
<br>
In any case, if we do decide to make this change, the ELisp manual<br>
should also be changed.<br>
</blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div>

--00000000000054fd44062c896d4a--




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Message received at 75828 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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 <86wmejt0gf.fsf@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <86wmejt0gf.fsf@HIDDEN>
From: Ship Mints <shipmints@HIDDEN>
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2025 09:56:40 -0500
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Subject: Re: bug#75828: [PATCH] Correct make-frame docstring vis-a-vis
 make_frame.c
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
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--000000000000300ddd062c8913d6
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Sure, I'll use buffer-list / buffer-predicate and beat my make-frame calls
into submission.

In the end, this was a surprise and it took a while to figure out why
make-frame wasn't doing what I asked. I had to read the code for make_frame
to figure this out. That, alone, is a good reason to at least mention it in
the docstring, and will save some other people time.


On Sat, Jan 25, 2025 at 9:47=E2=80=AFAM Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> wrote:

> > From: Ship Mints <shipmints@HIDDEN>
> > Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2025 09:12:50 -0500
> >
> > make-frame's docstring says "creates and returns a new frame, displayin=
g
> the current buffer." This is not
> > true if the buffer is considered conventionally hidden.
> >
> > struct frame *
> > make_frame (bool mini_p)
> > ...
> >     Lisp_Object buf =3D Fcurrent_buffer ();
> >     /* If current buffer is hidden, try to find another one.  */
> >     if (BUFFER_HIDDEN_P (XBUFFER (buf)))
> >       buf =3D other_buffer_safely (buf);
> >
> > I'd prefer to have an option to be literal and allow users to make a
> frame on a hidden current buffer.
>
> You can have that already via buffer-list and/or buffer-predicate frame
> parameters, no?
>
> > --- a/lisp/frame.el
> > +++ b/lisp/frame.el
> > @@ -915,6 +915,10 @@ x-display-name
> >
> >  (defun make-frame (&optional parameters)
> >    "Return a newly created frame displaying the current buffer.
> > +If the current buffer is hidden (its name starts with a space
> > +character), then another buffer is chosen to display following the
> > +semantics of `other-buffer'.
>
> Thanks, but this is inaccurate: it is incorrect, for example, if
> PARAMETERS include '((minibuffer . only)).
>
> I'm not sure we should reveal those details here.  Hidden buffers are
> handled specially in many places in Emacs, and I don't think we spell
> that out in every doc string.
>
> Stefan, WDYT?
>
> In any case, if we do decide to make this change, the ELisp manual
> should also be changed.
>

--000000000000300ddd062c8913d6
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D""><font face=3D"mono=
space">Sure, I&#39;ll use=C2=A0<code class=3D"gmail-code" style=3D"line-hei=
ght:1.4em;color:rgb(0,0,0)">buffer-list</code><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,=
0)">=C2=A0/=C2=A0</span><code class=3D"gmail-code" style=3D"line-height:1.4=
em;color:rgb(0,0,0)">buffer-predicate and beat my make-frame calls into sub=
mission.</code></font></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D""><code c=
lass=3D"gmail-code" style=3D"line-height:1.4em;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></code=
></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D""><code class=3D"gmail-code" s=
tyle=3D"line-height:1.4em;color:rgb(0,0,0)">In the end, this was a surprise=
 and it took a while to figure out why make-frame wasn&#39;t doing what I a=
sked. I had to read the code for make_frame to figure this out. That, alone=
, is a good reason to at least mention it in the docstring, and will save s=
ome other people time.</code></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fo=
nt-family:monospace"><code class=3D"gmail-code" style=3D"line-height:1.4em;=
color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:16px"><br></code></div></div><br><div class=3D"g=
mail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On =
Sat, Jan 25, 2025 at 9:47=E2=80=AFAM Eli Zaretskii &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:el=
iz@HIDDEN">eliz@HIDDEN</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail=
_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204=
,204);padding-left:1ex">&gt; From: Ship Mints &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:shipmin=
ts@HIDDEN" target=3D"_blank">shipmints@HIDDEN</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2025 09:12:50 -0500<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; make-frame&#39;s docstring says &quot;creates and returns a new frame,=
 displaying the current buffer.&quot; This is not<br>
&gt; true if the buffer is considered conventionally hidden.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; struct frame *<br>
&gt; make_frame (bool mini_p)<br>
&gt; ...<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Lisp_Object buf =3D Fcurrent_buffer ();<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0/* If current buffer is hidden, try to find another=
 one.=C2=A0 */<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0if (BUFFER_HIDDEN_P (XBUFFER (buf)))<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0buf =3D other_buffer_safely (buf);<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; I&#39;d prefer to have an option to be literal and allow users to make=
 a frame on a hidden current buffer.<br>
<br>
You can have that already via buffer-list and/or buffer-predicate frame<br>
parameters, no?<br>
<br>
&gt; --- a/lisp/frame.el<br>
&gt; +++ b/lisp/frame.el<br>
&gt; @@ -915,6 +915,10 @@ x-display-name<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 (defun make-frame (&amp;optional parameters)<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &quot;Return a newly created frame displaying the current=
 buffer.<br>
&gt; +If the current buffer is hidden (its name starts with a space<br>
&gt; +character), then another buffer is chosen to display following the<br=
>
&gt; +semantics of `other-buffer&#39;.<br>
<br>
Thanks, but this is inaccurate: it is incorrect, for example, if<br>
PARAMETERS include &#39;((minibuffer . only)).<br>
<br>
I&#39;m not sure we should reveal those details here.=C2=A0 Hidden buffers =
are<br>
handled specially in many places in Emacs, and I don&#39;t think we spell<b=
r>
that out in every doc string.<br>
<br>
Stefan, WDYT?<br>
<br>
In any case, if we do decide to make this change, the ELisp manual<br>
should also be changed.<br>
</blockquote></div>

--000000000000300ddd062c8913d6--




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#75828; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 75828 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
To: Ship Mints <shipmints@HIDDEN>,
 Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <CAN+1Hboom5qdS+X_H6AFoDrvAutf+9YB8vvA950uw=c0DbYoug@HIDDEN>
 (message from Ship Mints on Sat, 25 Jan 2025 09:12:50 -0500)
Subject: Re: bug#75828: [PATCH] Correct make-frame docstring vis-a-vis
 make_frame.c
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> From: Ship Mints <shipmints@HIDDEN>
> Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2025 09:12:50 -0500
> 
> make-frame's docstring says "creates and returns a new frame, displaying the current buffer." This is not
> true if the buffer is considered conventionally hidden.
> 
> struct frame *
> make_frame (bool mini_p)
> ...
>     Lisp_Object buf = Fcurrent_buffer ();
>     /* If current buffer is hidden, try to find another one.  */
>     if (BUFFER_HIDDEN_P (XBUFFER (buf)))
>       buf = other_buffer_safely (buf);
> 
> I'd prefer to have an option to be literal and allow users to make a frame on a hidden current buffer.

You can have that already via buffer-list and/or buffer-predicate frame
parameters, no?

> --- a/lisp/frame.el
> +++ b/lisp/frame.el
> @@ -915,6 +915,10 @@ x-display-name
>  
>  (defun make-frame (&optional parameters)
>    "Return a newly created frame displaying the current buffer.
> +If the current buffer is hidden (its name starts with a space
> +character), then another buffer is chosen to display following the
> +semantics of `other-buffer'.

Thanks, but this is inaccurate: it is incorrect, for example, if
PARAMETERS include '((minibuffer . only)).

I'm not sure we should reveal those details here.  Hidden buffers are
handled specially in many places in Emacs, and I don't think we spell
that out in every doc string.

Stefan, WDYT?

In any case, if we do decide to make this change, the ELisp manual
should also be changed.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#75828; Package emacs. Full text available.

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Subject: [PATCH] Correct make-frame docstring vis-a-vis make_frame.c
To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
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make-frame's docstring says "creates and returns a new frame, displaying
the current buffer." This is not true if the buffer is considered
conventionally hidden.

struct frame *
make_frame (bool mini_p)
...
    Lisp_Object buf = Fcurrent_buffer ();
    /* If current buffer is hidden, try to find another one.  */
    if (BUFFER_HIDDEN_P (XBUFFER (buf)))
      buf = other_buffer_safely (buf);

I'd prefer to have an option to be literal and allow users to make a frame
on a hidden current buffer. I might submit this idea under a different bug
for discussion.

-Stephane

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospac=
e">make-frame&#39;s docstring says &quot;creates and returns a new frame, d=
isplaying the current buffer.&quot; This is not true if the buffer is consi=
dered conventionally hidden.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon=
t-family:monospace"><br>struct frame *<br>make_frame (bool mini_p)<br>...<b=
r>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Lisp_Object buf =3D Fcurrent_buffer ();<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 /*=
 If current buffer is hidden, try to find another one. =C2=A0*/<br>=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 if (BUFFER_HIDDEN_P (XBUFFER (buf)))<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 buf =3D=
 other_buffer_safely (buf);<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"=
font-family:monospace"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font=
-family:monospace">I&#39;d prefer to have an option to be literal=C2=A0and =
allow users to make a frame on a hidden current buffer. I might submit this=
 idea under a different bug for discussion.</div><div class=3D"gmail_defaul=
t" style=3D"font-family:monospace"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" s=
tyle=3D"font-family:monospace">-Stephane</div></div>

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Acknowledgement sent to Ship Mints <shipmints@HIDDEN>:
New bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN. Full text available.
Report forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#75828; Package emacs. Full text available.
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