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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Tassilo Horn <tsdh@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#76132: Clojure-style auto-gensyms for macros
In-Reply-To: <jwvy0yb6zi8.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> (Stefan Monnier's message
of "Wed, 12 Feb 2025 08:55:51 -0500")
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References: <871pw98no1.fsf@HIDDEN> <jwv7c60fows.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN>
<87ikpkmn5b.fsf@HIDDEN> <jwv1pw6hgcb.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN>
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<jwvy0yb6zi8.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN>
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2025 09:02:14 -0500
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> does not return any uninterned symbols. It returns the code which *when
> executed* will generate a new uninterned symbol. Try
>
> (equal (eval (macroexpand '(cl-with-gensyms (x)
> `(+ ,x ,x))))
> (eval (macroexpand '(cl-with-gensyms (x)
> `(+ ,x ,x)))))
Actually a more precise test would be:
(let ((codegen (macroexpand-all '(cl-with-gensyms (x)
`(+ ,x ,x)))))
(equal (eval codegen t) (eval codegen t)))
- Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#76132; Package emacs.
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Tassilo Horn <tsdh@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#76132: Clojure-style auto-gensyms for macros
In-Reply-To: <87pljnzb6e.fsf@HIDDEN> (Tassilo Horn's message of "Wed, 12 Feb
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> (equal (macroexpand '(cl-with-gensyms (x)
> `(+ ,x ,x)))
> (macroexpand '(cl-with-gensyms (x)
> `(+ ,x ,x))))
> ;;=> t
That doesn't test what you think it does because
(macroexpand '(cl-with-gensyms (x) `(+ ,x ,x)))
does not return any uninterned symbols. It returns the code which *when
executed* will generate a new uninterned symbol. Try
(equal (eval (macroexpand '(cl-with-gensyms (x)
`(+ ,x ,x))))
(eval (macroexpand '(cl-with-gensyms (x)
`(+ ,x ,x)))))
- Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#76132; Package emacs.
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From: Tassilo Horn <tsdh@HIDDEN>
To: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#76132: Clojure-style auto-gensyms for macros
In-Reply-To: <E1tiABJ-0002Xs-N4@HIDDEN>
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2025 11:53:29 +0100
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Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN> writes:
Hi Richard,
> [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]]
> [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]]
> [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
>
> > (defmacro my-foo (exp)
> > (with-uninterned-symbols
> > `(let ((x$ 6))
> > (+ x$ ,exp))))
>
> with-uninterned-symbols does not seem to exist in my checkout.
> Is it new? Proposed?
Yes, I've proposed it but as it stands, it's already declined. That's
totally acceptable for me given the details of eager macro expansion
Stefan M. explained to me.
> I can guess from the example what it does. It is terribly un-Lispy.
> Let's use this syntax instead:
>
> (with-uninterned-symbols (x)
> `(let ((,x 6))
> (+ ,x ,exp)))
>
> It adds just one list of variables to the overall syntactic complexity
> of the construct when used, and it adds nothing to the syntax of Lipp.
>
> We could use the name `with-gensyms', a shorter name.
That's already available, named cl-with-gensyms and defined in
cl-macs.el. But truth to be told, that exhibits the very same problem
that my proposed macro also has, i.e., that
(equal (macroexpand '(cl-with-gensyms (x)
`(+ ,x ,x)))
(macroexpand '(cl-with-gensyms (x)
`(+ ,x ,x))))
;;=> t
meaning that every expansion uses the very same uninterned symbol x, not
one unique symbol x per expansion. As Stefan explained, that can lead
to problems in certain (honestly quite uncommon) corner-cases.
Bye,
Tassilo
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#76132; Package emacs.
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From: Richard Stallman <rms@HIDDEN>
To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <jwv1pw6hgcb.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN> (bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN)
Subject: Re: bug#76132: Clojure-style auto-gensyms for macros
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[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]
> (defmacro my-foo (exp)
> (with-uninterned-symbols
> `(let ((x$ 6))
> (+ x$ ,exp))))
with-uninterned-symbols does not seem to exist in my checkout.
Is it new? Proposed?
I can guess from the example what it does. It is terribly un-Lispy.
Let's use this syntax instead:
(with-uninterned-symbols (x)
`(let ((,x 6))
(+ ,x ,exp)))
It adds just one list of variables to the overall syntactic complexity
of the construct when used, and it adds nothing to the syntax of Lipp.
We could use the name `with-gensyms', a shorter name.
--
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#76132; Package emacs.
Full text available.Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN>
to control <at> debbugs.gnu.org.
Full text available.
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Tassilo Horn <tsdh@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#76132: Clojure-style auto-gensyms for macros
In-Reply-To: <87y0yegsix.fsf@HIDDEN> (Tassilo Horn's message of "Mon, 10 Feb
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>> [ Admittedly, this all depends on when `with-uninterned-symbols` is
>> macro-expanded, but in most cases it will be macro-expanded once and
>> for all when the macro is defined. ]
> Well, my naive assumption about macro expansion is that it's done lazily
> from inside-out.
Interesting: that's impossible.
Think about a case like:
(dolist (push pushes) (message "%S" `(pop ,push)))
how can the macro expander decide whether or not `(push pushes)` and
`(pop ,push)` are calls to macros `push` and `pop` without first
macro-expanding `dolist` and backquote?
Similarly, we can't compile the above code without first expanding all
the macros.
> And furthermore, why does
>
> (defmacro th/my-foo (exp)
> (let ((x (make-symbol "x")))
> `(let ((,x 6))
> (+ ,x ,exp))))
>
> not exhibit the exactly same problem?
Because the above code says explicitly that `make-symbol` is called
every time a call to `th/my-foo` is expanded. Whereas in your version,
the code says that `make-symbol` is called every time a call to
`with-uninterned-symbols` is expanded, but that can happen either when
we define `my-foo` or when "use" my-foo (depending on whether the
macroexpansion is done lazily or eagerly, and it can't be done lazily
if we compile the macro).
> Is there a way to fix my macro?
I don't think so, in general. E.g. if you want to generate fresh new
uninterned symbols every time the code is executed, then you can't
compile something like
(with-uninterned-symbols
(let ((x$ 6))
(+ x$ exp)))
since the name of the variable is not known until runtime (and will be
different each time).
I think to fix it, you have to fuse your macro with backquote, so users
would write
(defmacro my-other-foo (exp)
(uninterned-backquote
(let ((x$ 6))
(+ x$ ,exp))))
but of course you could still support the syntax
(defmacro my-foo (exp)
(with-uninterned-symbols
`(let ((x$ 6))
(+ x$ ,exp))))
and simply have `with-uninterned-symbols` check that its argument is of
the form `(...) and treat it as a use of `uninterned-backquote`.
Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#76132; Package emacs.
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From: Tassilo Horn <tsdh@HIDDEN>
To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#76132: Clojure-style auto-gensyms for macros
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Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> writes:
Hi Stefan,
>> Why?
>
> I'd ask the author of the code.
;-)
>> I would expect that it's one set of uninterned symbols per expansion.
>
> Try:
>
> (defmacro my-foo (exp)
> (with-uninterned-symbols
> `(let ((x$ 6))
> (+ x$ ,exp))))
>
> and then check (equal (macroexpand '(my-foo r)) (macroexpand '(my-foo r)))
That's shocking! :-|
> [ Admittedly, this all depends on when `with-uninterned-symbols` is
> macro-expanded, but in most cases it will be macro-expanded once and
> for all when the macro is defined. ]
Well, my naive assumption about macro expansion is that it's done lazily
from inside-out. In that case, I would assume the macro works as I
intended. Also nesting should be no problem, because when the outer
with-uninterned-symbols is expanded, any inner with-uninterned-symbols
has already been expanded so its own xs $ have been replaced with #:xs.
I guess you are talking about eager macro expansion, right? I have no
clue how that works and the docs don't tell either. Does it mean the
macro is expanded once its defmacro form is reached and the resulting
code is just inserted at its usages? But if that's the case, how are
the macro arguments injected in the code at the right places?
And furthermore, why does
(defmacro th/my-foo (exp)
(let ((x (make-symbol "x")))
`(let ((,x 6))
(+ ,x ,exp))))
not exhibit the exactly same problem? I guess it's because "the
machine" knows that every ,foo needs to be once-per-expansion, right?
Or maybe this dependency disables eager macro expansion for this macro
altoghether?
Is there a way to fix my macro? Maybe to define it so that it would
result in something like
(let-alist (collect-$-vars exp)
;; Now build a replacement for exp which uses ,.x accesses in place
;; of x$, e.g., this:
`(let ((,.x 6))
(+ ,.x ,exp)))
such that there's a "dependency" of the expansion to an expression
that's evaluated at expansion time which in turn depends on exp?
>> Oh, and obviously you made me curious about those weird corner cases.
>> Please elaborate! ;-)
>
> I wish I could. I'm starting to wonder if I dreamed it.
> The best I could come up with is:
>
> (defmacro my-countref-let (var form &rest body)
> (with-uninterned-symbols
> `(let ((x$ ,form)
> (count$ 0))
> (cl-symbol-macrolet ((,var (progn (cl-incf count$) x$)))
> (unwind-protect
> (progn ,@body)
> (message "%S ref'd %d times" ',var count$))))))
>
> where (my-countref-let v1 67 (my-countref-let v2 89 (+ v1 v2))) will
> say that `v2` was referenced twice and `v1` zero times (at least if
> that macro is byte-compiled).
Jesus Christ! ;-)
Bye,
Tassilo
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#76132; Package emacs.
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Tassilo Horn <tsdh@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#76132: Clojure-style auto-gensyms for macros
In-Reply-To: <87ikpkmn5b.fsf@HIDDEN> (Tassilo Horn's message of "Sat, 08 Feb
2025 17:12:00 +0100")
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References: <871pw98no1.fsf@HIDDEN> <jwv7c60fows.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN>
<87ikpkmn5b.fsf@HIDDEN>
Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2025 18:34:55 -0500
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> Why?
I'd ask the author of the code.
> I would expect that it's one set of uninterned symbols per expansion.
Try:
(defmacro my-foo (exp)
(with-uninterned-symbols
`(let ((x$ 6))
(+ x$ ,exp))))
and then check (equal (macroexpand '(my-foo r)) (macroexpand '(my-foo r)))
[ Admittedly, this all depends on when `with-uninterned-symbols` is
macro-expanded, but in most cases it will be macro-expanded once and
for all when the macro is defined. ]
> Doesn't that contradict your statement?
Apparently not. =F0=9F=99=82
> Oh, and obviously you made me curious about those weird corner cases.
> Please elaborate! ;-)
I wish I could. I'm starting to wonder if I dreamed it.
The best I could come up with is:
(defmacro my-countref-let (var form &rest body)
(with-uninterned-symbols
`(let ((x$ ,form)
(count$ 0))
(cl-symbol-macrolet ((,var (progn (cl-incf count$) x$)))
(unwind-protect
(progn ,@body)
(message "%S ref'd %d times" ',var count$))))))
where (my-countref-let v1 67 (my-countref-let v2 89 (+ v1 v2))) will say
that `v2` was referenced twice and `v1` zero times (at least if that
macro is byte-compiled).
Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#76132; Package emacs.
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I think we should not add this for the similar reasons to how we > don't have reader macros: Lisp is an almost syntax-free language, and > there are advantages to that. > > Any step away from that cuts deeply into the advantages, and the > corresonding benefits of the new syntax are often very minor. > > cl-with-gensyms is only slightly more typing, and is more trad Lisp > style. I'd tend to agree, FWIW.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#76132; Package emacs.
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From: Ship Mints <shipmints@HIDDEN>
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2025 04:22:05 -0500
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Message-ID: <CAN+1Hbq4co_9fnqiUxYW3xnhG3WN0hzotBzNCdRLFP4VrcEjtQ@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#76132: Clojure-style auto-gensyms for macros
To: Tassilo Horn <tsdh@HIDDEN>
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Good point on _. A suffix works. ^ suggests the mnemonic "it comes from
above."
(defmacro sm/test (x y)
(with-uninterned-symbols
`(let ((foo^ ,x)
(bar^ ,y))
(list :args `(,foo^ . ,bar^)
:add (+ foo^ bar^)
:sub (- foo^ bar^)
:mul (* foo^ bar^)
:div (/ foo^ bar^)))))
On Sun, Feb 9, 2025 at 3:33=E2=80=AFAM Tassilo Horn <tsdh@HIDDEN> wrote:
> Ship Mints <shipmints@HIDDEN> writes:
>
> > I prefer a hat ^ prefix as it is easier to read, rather than a dollar
> > $ suffix which seems muddled to my eye.
>
> I don't mind what character to use (the macro could even take it as an
> argument) but I'd prefer using a suffix simply because there's already
> the special prefix _ indicating to the byte-compiler that this variable
> is not used intentionally. You might want to use that capability when
> your macro expands to a function which needs to have a certain signature
> but your implementation doesn't use all arguments, for example.
>
> Bye,
> Tassilo
>
--000000000000b6c0fe062db22057
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospac=
e">Good point on _. A suffix works. ^ suggests the mnemonic "it comes =
from above."</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:mo=
nospace"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monosp=
ace">(defmacro sm/test (x y)<br>=C2=A0 (with-uninterned-symbols<br>=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0`(let ((foo^ ,x)<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 (bar^ ,y))<br>=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 (list :args `(,foo^ . ,bar^)<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 :add =C2=A0 (+ foo^ bar^)<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 :sub =C2=A0 (- foo^ bar^)<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 :mul =C2=A0 (* foo^ bar^)<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 :div =C2=A0 (/ foo^ bar^)))))<br></div></div><br><div class=3D"g=
mail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On =
Sun, Feb 9, 2025 at 3:33=E2=80=AFAM Tassilo Horn <<a href=3D"mailto:tsdh=
@gnu.org">tsdh@HIDDEN</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_q=
uote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,2=
04);padding-left:1ex">Ship Mints <<a href=3D"mailto:shipmints@HIDDEN"=
target=3D"_blank">shipmints@HIDDEN</a>> writes:<br>
<br>
> I prefer a hat ^ prefix as it is easier to read, rather than a dollar<=
br>
> $ suffix which seems muddled to my eye.<br>
<br>
I don't mind what character to use (the macro could even take it as an<=
br>
argument) but I'd prefer using a suffix simply because there's alre=
ady<br>
the special prefix _ indicating to the byte-compiler that this variable<br>
is not used intentionally.=C2=A0 You might want to use that capability when=
<br>
your macro expands to a function which needs to have a certain signature<br=
>
but your implementation doesn't use all arguments, for example.<br>
<br>
Bye,<br>
Tassilo<br>
</blockquote></div>
--000000000000b6c0fe062db22057--
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I don't mind what character to use (the macro could even take it as an argument) but I'd prefer using a suffix simply because there's already the special prefix _ indicating to the byte-compiler that this variable is not used intentionally. You might want to use that capability when your macro expands to a function which needs to have a certain signature but your implementation doesn't use all arguments, for example. Bye, Tassilo
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#76132; Package emacs.
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While you >> can write such macros traditionally like >> >> (defmacro foo [x y] >> (let [xv (gensym "x") >> yv (gensym "y")] >> `(let [,xv ,x >> ,yv ,y] >> (do-stuff (* ,xv ,xv) (* ,yv ,yv))))) >> >> you can also write much more concise and convenient >> >> (defmacro foo [x y] >> `(let [xv# ,x >> yv# ,y] >> (do-stuff (* xv# xv#) (* yv# yv#)))) > > IIUC the two versions above aren't quite equivalent. > The Clojure version seems to behave similarly to the macro you > propose, which behaves more like: > > (let [xv (gensym "x") > yv (gensym "y")] > (defmacro foo [x y] > `(let [,xv ,x > ,yv ,y] > (do-stuff (* ,xv ,xv) (* ,yv ,yv))))) > > in the sense that the same uninterned symbols will be used for every > expansion. This is usually fine, but can still result in name capture > in some weird corner cases (tho I must admit I can't even remember > what those corner cases are). Why? I would expect that it's one set of uninterned symbols per expansion. I first tried implementing it with an alist instead of a hash-table and didn't think about the fact that my alist function arg is just a pointer to the head of the list so that when popping back from a recursive call where I pushed onto the list (that is, to its head), the new entry got lost. With that failing approach, every foo$ occurrence was substituted with a separate (make-symbol "foo"), so although the exansion looked correct, every #:foo in there was distinct from all other #:foo-s. Doesn't that contradict your statement? Oh, and obviously you made me curious about those weird corner cases. Please elaborate! ;-) Bye, Tassilo
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#76132; Package emacs.
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From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
To: Tassilo Horn <tsdh@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#76132: Clojure-style auto-gensyms for macros
In-Reply-To: <871pw98no1.fsf@HIDDEN> (Tassilo Horn's message of "Fri, 07 Feb
2025 22:12:14 +0100")
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> Clojure has a very convenient feature to make that easy. While you can
> write such macros traditionally like
>
> (defmacro foo [x y]
> (let [xv (gensym "x")
> yv (gensym "y")]
> `(let [,xv ,x
> ,yv ,y]
> (do-stuff (* ,xv ,xv) (* ,yv ,yv)))))
>
> you can also write much more concise and convenient
>
> (defmacro foo [x y]
> `(let [xv# ,x
> yv# ,y]
> (do-stuff (* xv# xv#) (* yv# yv#))))
IIUC the two versions above aren't quite equivalent.
The Clojure version seems to behave similarly to the macro you propose,
which behaves more like:
(let [xv (gensym "x")
yv (gensym "y")]
(defmacro foo [x y]
`(let [,xv ,x
,yv ,y]
(do-stuff (* ,xv ,xv) (* ,yv ,yv)))))
in the sense that the same uninterned symbols will be used for every
expansion. This is usually fine, but can still result in name capture
in some weird corner cases (tho I must admit I can't even remember what
those corner cases are).
> I'm very hesitant to extend the Emacs Lisp language with such
> features, when this can be had for a price of a simple function call.
> We have enough magic names and punctuation characters already, and
> they get in the way of code readability.
To the extent that it's all implemented within a normal macro
(i.e. doesn't touch things like the reader or the `macroexp.el` code),
I'm not too bothered. It could even live in a separate package if we
don't want it in core.
Stefan
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#76132; Package emacs.
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Subject: Re: bug#76132: Clojure-style auto-gensyms for macros
To: Tassilo Horn <tsdh@HIDDEN>
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I've seen many unhygienic macros (found the hard way) and written some
myself out of laziness. It's a nice idea to encourage safer lazy macro
writing.
I prefer a hat ^ prefix as it is easier to read, rather than a dollar $
suffix which seems muddled to my eye.
I found no evidence of symbols with a ^ prefix in the Emacs code base or in
the elpa packages I use so would risk less conflict than $ which I have
seen around. I'd highlight these hat-prefixed symbols in some nice new
font-lock face.
(defmacro sm/test (x y)
(with-uninterned-symbols
`(let ((^foo ,x)
(^bar ,y))
(list :args `(,^foo . ,^bar)
:add (+ ^foo ^bar)
:sub (- ^foo ^bar)
:mul (* ^foo ^bar)
:div (/ ^foo ^bar)))))
-Stephane
On Sat, Feb 8, 2025 at 3:30=E2=80=AFAM Tassilo Horn <tsdh@HIDDEN> wrote:
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:
>
> >> Would there be interest in adding something like that to Elisp?
> >
> > I'm very hesitant to extend the Emacs Lisp language with such
> > features, when this can be had for a price of a simple function call.
> > We have enough magic names and punctuation characters already, and
> > they get in the way of code readability.
>
> In my opinion, readability is the key point of the feature. With the
> regular "declare the locals you need to introduce beforehand and then
> splice them into the expansion" approach, the distinction between locals
> and spliced-in macro args gets lost. With the suggested
> with-uninterned-symbols macro, it's clear that foo$ is a local defined
> in the expansion while ,foo is something from "the outside".
>
> I'm not booked on the $-suffix, though. It's just easy to type, stands
> out a bit and usually isn't used in the wild.
>
> Bye,
> Tassilo
>
>
>
>
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospac=
e">I've seen many unhygienic macros (found the hard way) and written so=
me myself out of laziness. It's a nice idea to encourage safer lazy mac=
ro writing.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospac=
e"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospace">I=
prefer a hat ^ prefix as it is easier to read, rather than a dollar $ suff=
ix which seems muddled to=C2=A0my eye.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" st=
yle=3D"font-family:monospace"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-family:monospace">I found no evidence of symbols with a ^ prefix i=
n the Emacs code base or in the elpa packages I use so would risk less conf=
lict than $ which I have seen around. I'd highlight these hat-prefixed=
=C2=A0symbols in some nice new font-lock face. </div><div class=3D"gmail_de=
fault" style=3D"font-family:monospace"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_defaul=
t" style=3D"font-family:monospace">(defmacro sm/test (x y)<br>=C2=A0 (with-=
uninterned-symbols<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0`(let ((^foo ,x)<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 (^bar ,y))<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 (list :args `(,^foo . ,^b=
ar)<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 :add =C2=A0 (+ ^foo ^bar)<=
br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 :sub =C2=A0 (- ^foo ^bar)<br>=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 :mul =C2=A0 (* ^foo ^bar)<br>=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 :div =C2=A0 (/ ^foo ^bar)))))<br></d=
iv><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospace"><br></div><=
div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospace">-Stephane</div>=
</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir=3D"ltr"=
class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, Feb 8, 2025 at 3:30=E2=80=AFAM Tassilo Horn &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tsdh@HIDDEN">tsdh@HIDDEN</a>> wrote:<br></div><bl=
ockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-lef=
t:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Eli Zaretskii <<a href=3D=
"mailto:eliz@HIDDEN" target=3D"_blank">eliz@HIDDEN</a>> writes:<br>
<br>
>> Would there be interest in adding something like that to Elisp?<br=
>
><br>
> I'm very hesitant to extend the Emacs Lisp language with such<br>
> features, when this can be had for a price of a simple function call.<=
br>
> We have enough magic names and punctuation characters already, and<br>
> they get in the way of code readability.<br>
<br>
In my opinion, readability is the key point of the feature.=C2=A0 With the<=
br>
regular "declare the locals you need to introduce beforehand and then<=
br>
splice them into the expansion" approach, the distinction between loca=
ls<br>
and spliced-in macro args gets lost.=C2=A0 With the suggested<br>
with-uninterned-symbols macro, it's clear that foo$ is a local defined<=
br>
in the expansion while ,foo is something from "the outside".<br>
<br>
I'm not booked on the $-suffix, though.=C2=A0 It's just easy to typ=
e, stands<br>
out a bit and usually isn't used in the wild.<br>
<br>
Bye,<br>
Tassilo<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>
--000000000000718458062da11671--
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#76132; Package emacs.
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In my opinion, readability is the key point of the feature. With the regular "declare the locals you need to introduce beforehand and then splice them into the expansion" approach, the distinction between locals and spliced-in macro args gets lost. With the suggested with-uninterned-symbols macro, it's clear that foo$ is a local defined in the expansion while ,foo is something from "the outside". I'm not booked on the $-suffix, though. It's just easy to type, stands out a bit and usually isn't used in the wild. Bye, Tassilo
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#76132; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 76132) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Feb 2025 07:55:14 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Feb 08 02:55:13 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:38192 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tgfgH-0006XH-A5 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Feb 2025 02:55:13 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:51672) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1tgfgD-0006RU-GG for 76132 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Feb 2025 02:55:11 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1tgfg7-0001bg-8v; Sat, 08 Feb 2025 02:55:03 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=AZh0vX2Hy5tn3sIzUDoE2kBPfjSAJPzLSEZA1ZkVEO0=; b=bw8fnw/nvEn/ hjlMarmeWNGxDro86f/qWR7mYJ1fVmh+L/V3WOa1wLw1LF0qldt4eORZe3/5hFXv2VGHlWzaGYUcV jpc9didcDkQukoSjHeYI42aAb57b5fb84yrO9p/OOOrh4/jJoGJJlT97I4e3doDYA21QFptn19XmW 4gEdeEmXicOUPL3YBumRLWVHn1DfGmEaQsMIqneR+0b5Gvjv9Xf0bFLSCVkIt8Ttkta1JfpekGFju KKPrZ9W9tdxK93jFY531mo2gj1SsHFQ6XAR6OEuMCQWLkzlU3DL42CRxiKzjxvZa2b8xYS6DopIYP LhdqKSm6eq+skcJ2mXOARw==; Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2025 09:54:59 +0200 Message-Id: <86h65450rw.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Tassilo Horn <tsdh@HIDDEN>, Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <871pw98no1.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Tassilo Horn on Fri, 07 Feb 2025 22:12:14 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#76132: Clojure-style auto-gensyms for macros References: <871pw98no1.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76132 Cc: 76132 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Tassilo Horn <tsdh@HIDDEN> > Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2025 22:12:14 +0100 > > in a recent bug report the topic macro hygiene came up, i.e., that a > macro which introduces local bindings in its expansion better uses > uninterned symbols for those in order not to clash with code passed as > macro arguments which are spliced into the expansion. > > Clojure has a very convenient feature to make that easy. While you can > write such macros traditionally like > > (defmacro foo [x y] > (let [xv (gensym "x") > yv (gensym "y")] > `(let [,xv ,x > ,yv ,y] > (do-stuff (* ,xv ,xv) (* ,yv ,yv))))) > > you can also write much more concise and convenient > > (defmacro foo [x y] > `(let [xv# ,x > yv# ,y] > (do-stuff (* xv# xv#) (* yv# yv#)))) > > where each symbol ending in # will be replaced by a unique gensymed > symbol (per name). The expansion of the two macros is the same. > > Would there be interest in adding something like that to Elisp? I'm very hesitant to extend the Emacs Lisp language with such features, when this can be had for a price of a simple function call. We have enough magic names and punctuation characters already, and they get in the way of code readability. Stefan, WDYT?
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Feedback-ID: ib2b94485:Fastmail
From: Tassilo Horn <tsdh@HIDDEN>
To: Thierry Volpiatto <thievol@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#76132: Clojure-style auto-gensyms for macros
In-Reply-To: <87msexjete.fsf@HIDDEN>
References: <871pw98no1.fsf@HIDDEN> <87msexjete.fsf@HIDDEN>
User-Agent: mu4e 1.12.8; emacs 31.0.50
Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2025 08:15:55 +0100
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Thierry Volpiatto <thievol@HIDDEN> writes:
Hi Thierry,
>> you can also write much more concise and convenient
>>
>> (defmacro foo [x y]
>> `(let [xv# ,x
>> yv# ,y]
>> (do-stuff (* xv# xv#) (* yv# yv#))))
>
> Don't we have cl-with-gensyms which is very convenient as well?
Ah, I didn't know. Well, cl-with-gensyms is basically just a let which
binds the given names to new gensyms. Then you have to use them as you
did before, e.g., splice them in the expansion `(... ,v1 ,v2). My
variant infers and replaces the symbols itself by a naming convention
("ending with $" in my example file).
Bye,
Tassilo
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Feedback-ID: ib2b94485:Fastmail
From: Tassilo Horn <tsdh@HIDDEN>
To: Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: [External] : bug#76132: Clojure-style auto-gensyms for macros
In-Reply-To: <DS7PR10MB523282B0BEF50BD59FD01B3EF3F12@HIDDEN>
References: <871pw98no1.fsf@HIDDEN>
<DS7PR10MB523282B0BEF50BD59FD01B3EF3F12@HIDDEN>
User-Agent: mu4e 1.12.8; emacs 31.0.50
Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2025 08:07:46 +0100
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Drew Adams <drew.adams@HIDDEN> writes:
>> (defmacro foo [x y]
>> `(let [xv# ,x
>> yv# ,y]
>> (do-stuff (* xv# xv#) (* yv# yv#))))
>>
>> where each symbol ending in # will be replaced
>> by a unique gensymed symbol (per name).
>> Would there be interest in adding something
>> like that to Elisp?
>
> So you could no longer let-bind a variable
> whose name ends in `#', to get a normal let
> binding? (Admittedly, you need to write that
> as `\#' in the source code.)
No, have you looked at the file I attached? You will see the feature is
implemented by a macro itself, so if you don't like it, don't use it.
> Doesn't sound like an improvement, to me.
> A priori, I'm not in favor of limiting the
> names you can use for variables.
>
> That would be especially pernicious with let
> bindings of dynamic ("special") variables.
How many special variables are there ending in # (or actually $ which I
use in my example)?
Bye,
Tassilo
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#76132; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 76132) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Feb 2025 03:28:18 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Feb 07 22:28:18 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37672 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tgbVx-00072t-RY for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 07 Feb 2025 22:28:18 -0500 Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]:36511) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <thievol@HIDDEN>) id 1tgbVt-00072X-Mr for 76132 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 07 Feb 2025 22:28:15 -0500 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E4D91240101 for <76132 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>; Sat, 8 Feb 2025 04:28:06 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1738985286; bh=ZP39dtWO2ew5ulI/NQPXW2uQ1sAhw5oNDT9qYSl20R8=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Autocrypt:OpenPGP:From; b=A9C13aaIUNyEPNeMVVKepReZAWJGBRWhcpIaxOOnoPUz+kNI0B+M9m1o1r+bYmgtK bFwaFGHTqR+2GSx8HNqZNOG+FofjIvGspBZ70IshyaBLQGgK694eOTUBYdP40un0Xk ytglcblaO5JF+2mhT0fumpvBDu5d+tfG4lFvKGDkPZh68lxVU7AyK8sju4kXfCILup AILznylnJ1QmmF/VkW7cXcKVvMkPZfLd4xRnDbMjv1fIFHaKzRa8RdLU4VsUtAEkV9 yKaqmFotgsGfcbJFDi0iTmrDbdcbHu+IjtOJgy6uySnhNT8talapi4qeF1gkNXRoV/ nJH9k3vNQ72UQ== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4Yqbrg3PvYz6tm8; Sat, 8 Feb 2025 04:28:03 +0100 (CET) From: Thierry Volpiatto <thievol@HIDDEN> To: Tassilo Horn <tsdh@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#76132: Clojure-style auto-gensyms for macros In-Reply-To: <871pw98no1.fsf@HIDDEN> (Tassilo Horn's message of "Fri, 07 Feb 2025 22:12:14 +0100") References: <871pw98no1.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2025 03:27:57 +0000 Message-ID: <87msexjete.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Autocrypt: addr=thievol@HIDDEN; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata=xsDNBF8ylcIBDADG+hy+zR6L4/vbdDDZuSaMmSrU3A5QZJpeBCvxTr7MpzzruZbhLPW1K3R6N2MA edi8Y+C8o27FVRIjpdbaKMGu9je7JV/TbUQYo3SOwCK1vM4LUn4V6ZLzSYkuiEt4eyMoiDdyvN0p kcK6P9x9DCetcEVszXzQg+yzCVrQ2hXWDXWT4M18EC3wtO7RHPouMqGiwBFhBAYErCqFWFxQHkfb tG/4yGyJ58rglb65O3qijjMWvYwcWZun9/7qm8Z4/4mHopmo2zgU+OrptnLSZfkZGz3Y7Uf452xQ GVq0Fv75NPvQru7y+DYVhuVXXyAmGxt+vf4rIiixMBbhKEPjcxEPAa2LTzex2IsTZR+QVG9uDnqC WcgaOEQ58fzXNvNhtwwF/Rgio2XWAJVdmFWS59/k9W58CIUSNKBMZh2XeGdEmtHvDtCxW3z6FJha 36RzOM3fMNNiAGdFZJA84gcdloJR+sHCDTTPT3784fjr+V8An7sI581NGFzkRQqPvEQCZbUAEQEA Ac0SdGhpZXZvbEBwb3N0ZW8ubmV0wsEOBBMBCgA4AhsDBQsJCAcCBhUKCQgLAgQWAgMBAh4BAheA FiEEI9twfRN7r3nig/xwDsVtFB0W75MFAmL3HCoACgkQDsVtFB0W75OVEAv/f6XxmtIFz08fUb8h Bp/zJP6IC4/rhhh+0GMRIRzLN8DK0jV8JCzYdFHiRJOy2lNIOpmrrCmjRRxferc2G42+ePFIsslx hU46VSz1Z83NwIG3mpdYNV5WUTUdgzxExHTNTFCd7NKv0nlHKQaAtdXm5bYnSHsnL7cx8z7lukA/ EsJocE+GD7QXnsrdlicvdobI0TEN4l73221a72oCvHfYLCVsB6YsNJ5ZGkA1zSjzln5uLAgZ/2r/ aqlao/AlSZkAk6+hvK0RyAZ/YR4YRZxO8Fsd0gWgFkanRfKfufJ1V0OHZg7yszi3q/hRzS+rZtJ0 OuzDlh/dyQkxVkZb9vis/+HnGDJrBE5MsmJLcy2Sy3uUnio0fq8q9CrZbudvd1DajlZxPzTm0csP eUk45QEgbhEU7MfyAX/mkKxjHajz2cMcHKIap1BqEgJl4BKFeLMcBZ4O1p9ivwtf1Ht2JTp5lOi0 ItPfhQ4DP8LZ1ZIkN5Kg9v0cyw9meRzAuuR0V2GtzsDNBF8ylcIBDADnIDHEkmk4lUwTlOhwb2yj UfmGPnpH3MCCHkjM9H/P1gTHxFWtwFVPcNMCwXWvKSBTF2dZXKERD0yzG06zT53ZMN7EIIeuY6m4 R8IcMvpohciisWxbFoB4ZY117tVSeqjo946itgbpdeESKl9a8dpn7ytZMyYxPdojlQAqxeAJ8444 raESh1oTKXb64hlk4l2pSRlrLgjpJBo8asAfZndaxIUKhw68tV8sqeZh9P6cGtHbUELKVJqefNV7 V7jF5wf3xvRG6Ces3kSKXalLfs+vrVaoOjQeWrc0AtwFWHmt9JLfKrqF+Q2Q7jUidboWmazQM56E SJFPpPHmWq8k6DHspsFHOforLouTHJL1556IPne7IV2BGfWc0+xLxalZ8F5F+vnPF/OkrC1CD5iC KTjXKa2iZbcYdYQAiL6P8Ac8CgN6EkhpbxRtzrEgChuNGevdi/G/GHG4Zqrh6YFwIa/NHq2aVaFq 5C1yNTMJd1FRjRzs5JPPlJKpYDnNx+MSp7UAEQEAAcLA9gQYAQoAIAIbDBYhBCPbcH0Te6954oP8 cA7FbRQdFu+TBQJi9x1ZAAoJEA7FbRQdFu+To6QMAIcvUSiFwCIggxkmYy3ZY0QAMLmIPga8DNPM XbfSOBDb2KLGBd+FAA8p2GExpul4r6kOYnGogtojByHmVgrd30/3ZURTM8Vj51wwD05viMZccQHl Wd9J/qZIvhBJlJWYnwVxh+2Kg4/hkx7SGc7JJS5GS37+PFQOJHPGMxc+fe4Ty2FdjIOVf3P1Hov9 K6yBI7Af66qqcL3aKJ4jJidRYN8sMaKOqEu4rcSpTxp8/3Ddbs9HezUgXeUzOLJMcEYFlvCyC8ZS l/QDZmpobKbxZ1JAqZM8lnmcZYSV7OsWnxJIYDV1gH5LTLj7bGswXaB4B+qkckihWkRZixu8q1IK 0c/xwUzyF092uFRM/sQKrSmnwA1+hQiiIuEl4XVz5li0/TmMta3ijUM7GNbl2IjioTRxWWecwad1 mNHvKTcXPsKDAbHFdLvQzurnroBHQV0jSPNLTP5Suo7RnLbehfg5INpGjToCUlrd2qQqgXW7h5qZ TgUq5UmBc7YZ0JYWQgPTbQ== OpenPGP: url=https://posteo.de/keys/thievol@HIDDEN; preference=encrypt X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76132 Cc: 76132 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Tassilo Horn <tsdh@HIDDEN> writes: > Tags: patch > > Hi all, > > in a recent bug report the topic macro hygiene came up, i.e., that a > macro which introduces local bindings in its expansion better uses > uninterned symbols for those in order not to clash with code passed as > macro arguments which are spliced into the expansion. > > Clojure has a very convenient feature to make that easy. While you can > write such macros traditionally like > > (defmacro foo [x y] > (let [xv (gensym "x") > yv (gensym "y")] > `(let [,xv ,x > ,yv ,y] > (do-stuff (* ,xv ,xv) (* ,yv ,yv))))) > > you can also write much more concise and convenient > > (defmacro foo [x y] > `(let [xv# ,x > yv# ,y] > (do-stuff (* xv# xv#) (* yv# yv#)))) Don't we have cl-with-gensyms which is very convenient as well? In Helm we have helm-with-gensyms which is the same (Thanks Michael ;-)) > where each symbol ending in # will be replaced by a unique gensymed > symbol (per name). The expansion of the two macros is the same. > > Would there be interest in adding something like that to Elisp? > > I've attached a proof-of-concept implementation where the feature is > provided by a macro with-uninterned-symbols [1] which you simply wrap > around your backquoted form. > > [1] In Clojure, it's a feature of the reader triggered by backquote. > > In GNU Emacs 31.0.50 (build 1, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version > 3.24.48, cairo version 1.18.2) of 2025-02-07 built on thinkpad-t440p > Repository revision: 1751739152149608d28853782ce53b0b9a749bb2 > Repository branch: master > System Description: Arch Linux > > Configured using: > 'configure --without-native-compilation --with-modules --with-pgtk' > > -- Thierry
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#76132; Package emacs.
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Subject: RE: [External] : bug#76132: Clojure-style auto-gensyms for macros
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> Clojure has a very convenient feature to make that easy. While you can
> write such macros traditionally like
>=20
> (defmacro foo [x y]
> (let [xv (gensym "x")
> yv (gensym "y")]
> `(let [,xv ,x
> ,yv ,y]
> (do-stuff (* ,xv ,xv) (* ,yv ,yv)))))
>=20
> you can also write much more concise and convenient
> > you can also write much more concise and convenient
>=20
> (defmacro foo [x y]
> `(let [xv# ,x
> yv# ,y]
> (do-stuff (* xv# xv#) (* yv# yv#))))
>=20
> where each symbol ending in # will be replaced
> by a unique gensymed symbol (per name).
> Would there be interest in adding something
> like that to Elisp?
So you could no longer let-bind a variable
whose name ends in `#', to get a normal let
binding? (Admittedly, you need to write that
as `\#' in the source code.)
Doesn't sound like an improvement, to me.
A priori, I'm not in favor of limiting the
names you can use for variables.
That would be especially pernicious with let
bindings of dynamic ("special") variables.
If it were limited to lexical variables it
wouldn't be so bad. We should be able to
bind dynamic vars whose names end with `#'.
(Again though, admittedly the `#' chars need
to be escaped in source code: `\#'.)
The clich=E9 of handling this kind of thing in
macros with gensym is pretty standard (it may
even be the main use of gensym). Yes, it can
be error prone, but it's not really harder to
use gensym than it is to add `#' to var names.
And the body is IMO clearer without the added
`#'s and subtracted commas.
There might be some other way to provide such
a shortcut, without removing the _general_
possibility of naming let variables with `#'
at the end. A new variety (yet another?) of
`let' perhaps, that does what you suggest.
I'll note too that Common Lisp doesn't bother
with such things either. And people have been
writing Lisp macros with Common Lisp and its
ancestors for many, many moon.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#76132; Package emacs.
Full text available.
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From: Tassilo Horn <tsdh@HIDDEN>
To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
Subject: Clojure-style auto-gensyms for macros
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Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2025 22:12:14 +0100
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--=-=-=
Content-Type: text/plain
Tags: patch
Hi all,
in a recent bug report the topic macro hygiene came up, i.e., that a
macro which introduces local bindings in its expansion better uses
uninterned symbols for those in order not to clash with code passed as
macro arguments which are spliced into the expansion.
Clojure has a very convenient feature to make that easy. While you can
write such macros traditionally like
(defmacro foo [x y]
(let [xv (gensym "x")
yv (gensym "y")]
`(let [,xv ,x
,yv ,y]
(do-stuff (* ,xv ,xv) (* ,yv ,yv)))))
you can also write much more concise and convenient
(defmacro foo [x y]
`(let [xv# ,x
yv# ,y]
(do-stuff (* xv# xv#) (* yv# yv#))))
where each symbol ending in # will be replaced by a unique gensymed
symbol (per name). The expansion of the two macros is the same.
Would there be interest in adding something like that to Elisp?
I've attached a proof-of-concept implementation where the feature is
provided by a macro with-uninterned-symbols [1] which you simply wrap
around your backquoted form.
[1] In Clojure, it's a feature of the reader triggered by backquote.
In GNU Emacs 31.0.50 (build 1, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version
3.24.48, cairo version 1.18.2) of 2025-02-07 built on thinkpad-t440p
Repository revision: 1751739152149608d28853782ce53b0b9a749bb2
Repository branch: master
System Description: Arch Linux
Configured using:
'configure --without-native-compilation --with-modules --with-pgtk'
--=-=-=
Content-Type: text/patch
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=clojure-macro.el
;; -*- lexical-binding: t; -*-
(defun with-uninterned-symbols--helper (form symbol-map)
(cond
;; A symbol foo$ must be replaced with an uninterned symbol. Record the
;; foo$ -> #:foo mapping in symbol-map for reuse.
((and (symbolp form)
(string-match "\\(.*\\)[$]$" (symbol-name form)))
(or (gethash form symbol-map)
(let ((s (make-symbol (match-string 1 (symbol-name form)))))
(puthash form s symbol-map)
s)))
;; For lists and vectors, recurse into each element.
((or (listp form)
(vectorp form))
(let ((new-form (mapcar (lambda (c)
(with-uninterned-symbols--helper c symbol-map))
form)))
(if (vectorp form)
(apply #'vector new-form)
new-form)))
;; For conses, recurse into car and cdr.
((consp form)
(cons (with-uninterned-symbols--helper (car form))
(with-uninterned-symbols--helper (cdr form))))
(t form)))
(defmacro with-uninterned-symbols (form)
"Helper macro for defining the expansion of a macro.
Takes a FORM and replaces all symbols whose name ends with $ with
uninterned symbols, one uninterned symbol per name."
(with-uninterned-symbols--helper
form
(make-hash-table :test #'eq :size 16)))
(defmacro th/test (x y)
(with-uninterned-symbols
`(let ((foo$ ,x)
(bar$ ,y))
(list :args `(,foo$ . ,bar$)
:add (+ foo$ bar$)
:sub (- foo$ bar$)
:mul (* foo$ bar$)
:div (/ foo$ bar$)))))
(th/test 1.0 2.0)
;;=> (:args (1.0 . 2.0) :add 3.0 :sub -1.0 :mul 2.0 :div 0.5)
;;=> Expansion is:
;; (let ((#:foo 1.0) (#:bar 2.0))
;; (list :args `(,#:foo \, #:bar)
;; :add (+ #:foo #:bar)
;; :sub (- #:foo #:bar)
;; :mul (* #:foo #:bar)
;; :div (/ #:foo #:bar)))
--=-=-=--
Tassilo Horn <tsdh@HIDDEN>:bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.
Full text available.bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#76132; Package emacs.
Full text available.
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