GNU bug report logs - #76199
30.0.93; completing-read-multiple is not documented in the manual

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Package: emacs; Reported by: Daniel Mendler <mail@HIDDEN>; Done: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>; Maintainer for emacs is bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.

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Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2025 16:44:22 +0200
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From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
To: Daniel Mendler <mail@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <87lduch96e.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Daniel Mendler
 on Tue, 11 Feb 2025 15:01:45 +0100)
Subject: Re: bug#76199: 30.0.93; completing-read-multiple is not documented
 in the manual
References: <87seokhj6z.fsf@HIDDEN> <86tt90wqvn.fsf@HIDDEN>
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> From: Daniel Mendler <mail@HIDDEN>
> Cc: 76199 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2025 15:01:45 +0100
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:
> 
> > We could also compromise: mention the function's existence in the
> > manual, but leave out its description (if that will just repeat what's
> > in the doc string, it's just redundant).
> 
> This sounds like a good compromise. A short notice mentioning
> `completing-read-multiple' below the documentation of `completing-read'
> should suffice.

Thanks, now done on the emacs-30 branch (with the wrong bug number,
sorry), and closing the bug.




Notification sent to Daniel Mendler <mail@HIDDEN>:
bug acknowledged by developer. Full text available.
Reply sent to Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>:
You have taken responsibility. Full text available.

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> Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2025 at 1:54 AM
> From: "Eli Zaretskii" <eliz@HIDDEN>
> To: "Heime" <heimeborgia@HIDDEN>
> Cc: mail@HIDDEN, 76199 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Subject: bug#76199: 30.0.93; completing-read-multiple is not documented =
in the manual
>
> > Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2025 13:40:23 +0000
> > From: Heime <heimeborgia@HIDDEN>
> > Cc: Daniel Mendler <mail@HIDDEN>, 76199 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> >
> > > We don't necessarily document every function. Is this one important
> > > enough to be in the manual?
> >
> > I have used it, and would like it to be in the manual.
>
> That's not a sufficient reason to add it, sorry.
>
> You need to realize that the ELisp manual is already too large: it
> prints in 2 volumes, each volume weighing in at hundreds of pages.  So
> we must be judicial in our decisions to add new stuff there.

The manual is not being read as a book but to get information about some
specific feature that makes it easier to use than  looking at docstrings.
The trend is towards a good automatic query search.  The only thing that
should happen is for the manual to increase in volume rather than reduce.

One suggestion would be to have the manual categorised, so one does not ha=
ve
to search through its entirety to look at information on same aspect.






Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#76199; Package emacs. Full text available.

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> Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2025 at 1:51 AM
> From: "Eli Zaretskii" <eliz@HIDDEN>
> To: "Daniel Mendler" <mail@HIDDEN>
> Cc: 76199 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Subject: bug#76199: 30.0.93; completing-read-multiple is not documented =
in the manual
>
> > From: Daniel Mendler <mail@HIDDEN>
> > Cc: 76199 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> > Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2025 14:37:56 +0100
> >
> > Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:
> >
> > >> Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2025 11:25:24 +0100
> > >> From:  Daniel Mendler via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs,
> > >>  the Swiss army knife of text editors" <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>
> > >>
> > >> Since documentation came up in bug#76028, it seems that
> > >> `completing-read-multiple' is not documented in the Elisp
> > >> manual, in particular in doc/lispref/minibuf.texi.
> > >
> > > We don't necessarily document every function.  Is this one important
> > > enough to be in the manual?
> >
> > I think so.
>
> Can you tell why?
>
> The function is documented in its doc string, so adding it to the
> manual needs a reason, like extreme popularity (doesn't seem to be the
> case here), or some important aspects of its use that cannot be
> easily described  in the doc string.
>
> We could also compromise: mention the function's existence in the
> manual, but leave out its description (if that will just repeat what's
> in the doc string, it's just redundant).

Reference to it in the manual would assist users in discovering additional
functionality than figuring them out for themselves.

Some information is better than having nothing.  Some summary of additiona=
l
things that go beyond the realm of the manual would be of assistance to us=
ers.

What do you think about something like the Introduction to Emacs Lisp,
but that discusses things that go beyond the manual like new features,
popular ways of using things, and so on.






Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#76199; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 76199 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: Daniel Mendler <mail@HIDDEN>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#76199: 30.0.93; completing-read-multiple is not documented
 in the manual
In-Reply-To: <86r044wpvw.fsf@HIDDEN> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 11 Feb
 2025 15:51:47 +0200")
References: <87seokhj6z.fsf@HIDDEN> <86tt90wqvn.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <87pljohaa3.fsf@HIDDEN> <86r044wpvw.fsf@HIDDEN>
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2025 15:01:45 +0100
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Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:

>> From: Daniel Mendler <mail@HIDDEN>
>> Cc: 76199 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>> Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2025 14:37:56 +0100
>> 
>> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:
>> 
>> >> Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2025 11:25:24 +0100
>> >> From:  Daniel Mendler via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs,
>> >>  the Swiss army knife of text editors" <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>
>> >> 
>> >> Since documentation came up in bug#76028, it seems that
>> >> `completing-read-multiple' is not documented in the Elisp
>> >> manual, in particular in doc/lispref/minibuf.texi.
>> >
>> > We don't necessarily document every function.  Is this one important
>> > enough to be in the manual?
>> 
>> I think so.
>
> Can you tell why?

It is sometimes useful to complete multiple strings and
`completing-read-multiple' is a good tool to do that. So it may be
helpful to tell developers about this function. Alternatively one can
use `completing-read' in a loop, which I have also seen multiple times
in the Emacs code base or external packages.

> We could also compromise: mention the function's existence in the
> manual, but leave out its description (if that will just repeat what's
> in the doc string, it's just redundant).

This sounds like a good compromise. A short notice mentioning
`completing-read-multiple' below the documentation of `completing-read'
should suffice.

Daniel




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
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 (message from Heime on Tue, 11 Feb 2025 13:40:23 +0000)
Subject: Re: bug#76199: 30.0.93;
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> Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2025 13:40:23 +0000
> From: Heime <heimeborgia@HIDDEN>
> Cc: Daniel Mendler <mail@HIDDEN>, 76199 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> > We don't necessarily document every function. Is this one important
> > enough to be in the manual?
> 
> I have used it, and would like it to be in the manual. 

That's not a sufficient reason to add it, sorry.

You need to realize that the ELisp manual is already too large: it
prints in 2 volumes, each volume weighing in at hundreds of pages.  So
we must be judicial in our decisions to add new stuff there.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
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Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2025 15:51:47 +0200
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From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
To: Daniel Mendler <mail@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <87pljohaa3.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Daniel Mendler
 on Tue, 11 Feb 2025 14:37:56 +0100)
Subject: Re: bug#76199: 30.0.93; completing-read-multiple is not documented
 in the manual
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> From: Daniel Mendler <mail@HIDDEN>
> Cc: 76199 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2025 14:37:56 +0100
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:
> 
> >> Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2025 11:25:24 +0100
> >> From:  Daniel Mendler via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs,
> >>  the Swiss army knife of text editors" <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>
> >> 
> >> Since documentation came up in bug#76028, it seems that
> >> `completing-read-multiple' is not documented in the Elisp
> >> manual, in particular in doc/lispref/minibuf.texi.
> >
> > We don't necessarily document every function.  Is this one important
> > enough to be in the manual?
> 
> I think so.

Can you tell why?

The function is documented in its doc string, so adding it to the
manual needs a reason, like extreme popularity (doesn't seem to be the
case here), or some important aspects of its use that cannot be
easily described  in the doc string.

We could also compromise: mention the function's existence in the
manual, but leave out its description (if that will just repeat what's
in the doc string, it's just redundant).




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#76199; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 76199 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2025 13:40:23 +0000
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
From: Heime <heimeborgia@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#76199: 30.0.93;
 completing-read-multiple is not documented in the manual
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Sent with Proton Mail secure email.

On Wednesday, February 12th, 2025 at 1:30 AM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> =
wrote:

> > Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2025 11:25:24 +0100
> > From: Daniel Mendler via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs,
> > the Swiss army knife of text editors" bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
> >=20
> > Since documentation came up in bug#76028, it seems that
> > `completing-read-multiple' is not documented in the Elisp
> > manual, in particular in doc/lispref/minibuf.texi.
>=20
>=20
> We don't necessarily document every function. Is this one important
> enough to be in the manual?


I have used it, and would like it to be in the manual. 




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From: Daniel Mendler <mail@HIDDEN>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#76199: 30.0.93; completing-read-multiple is not documented
 in the manual
In-Reply-To: <86tt90wqvn.fsf@HIDDEN> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 11 Feb
 2025 15:30:20 +0200")
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Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2025 14:37:56 +0100
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Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:

>> Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2025 11:25:24 +0100
>> From:  Daniel Mendler via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs,
>>  the Swiss army knife of text editors" <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>
>> 
>> Since documentation came up in bug#76028, it seems that
>> `completing-read-multiple' is not documented in the Elisp
>> manual, in particular in doc/lispref/minibuf.texi.
>
> We don't necessarily document every function.  Is this one important
> enough to be in the manual?

I think so. It is not as important as `completing-read' but still useful
in scenarios where multiple strings should be read via completion. I can
send a patch for the manual if there is interest.

Daniel




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#76199; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 76199 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
To: Daniel Mendler <mail@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <87seokhj6z.fsf@HIDDEN> (bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN)
Subject: Re: bug#76199: 30.0.93;
 completing-read-multiple is not documented in the manual
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> Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2025 11:25:24 +0100
> From:  Daniel Mendler via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs,
>  the Swiss army knife of text editors" <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN>
> 
> Since documentation came up in bug#76028, it seems that
> `completing-read-multiple' is not documented in the Elisp
> manual, in particular in doc/lispref/minibuf.texi.

We don't necessarily document every function.  Is this one important
enough to be in the manual?




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#76199; Package emacs. Full text available.

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From: Daniel Mendler <mail@HIDDEN>
To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
Subject: 30.0.93; completing-read-multiple is not documented in the manual
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Since documentation came up in bug#76028, it seems that
`completing-read-multiple' is not documented in the Elisp
manual, in particular in doc/lispref/minibuf.texi.




Acknowledgement sent to Daniel Mendler <mail@HIDDEN>:
New bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN. Full text available.
Report forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#76199; Package emacs. Full text available.
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