Received: (at 76407) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Feb 2025 22:07:16 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Feb 24 17:07:16 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43205 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tmgbc-0006OZ-2Y for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Feb 2025 17:07:16 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:51434) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <ludo@HIDDEN>) id 1tmgbY-0006OC-Ec for 76407 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 24 Feb 2025 17:07:13 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <ludo@HIDDEN>) id 1tmgbT-00066P-1t; Mon, 24 Feb 2025 17:07:07 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-Version:Date:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:To: From; bh=9Xbbbp/isBdZxUSbJgp+kaxILulnU2QBAxcrwIg692M=; b=onvweor/eba5xSuO2gJI DuHLK/kX7zNoKGpyRK2mT52gPGh1wPx03i20CpvhNMiCJwjnfH6ixJfTurrxeqktvixqys7Tm9fCg E7m70Sm4G7TOv66eV+T57w+8KsTZ10EGsNdU+4lSWmg8s2VlPKM3BacjJgLCikGviiet1NUy5pS+e zXt0M36WCxXfai174PLOuKj1ccVQSgXINQdB0fuXaHFbRJKNrclwak38lvpt8YxdSQQzg3sbasIwl WYU777HWasNuJQx5xBCfy9Mw0zvrjfDnMZujf9IMElQWTkprxK7G9LGXTyxe8vWP+cQDA43z19qh6 xvvSr61UcnuJ1A==; From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN> To: Liliana Marie Prikler <liliana.prikler@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#76407: [GCD] A better name for the default branch In-Reply-To: <8fea9aa02c0dec4574686d636d92fd74997d2c85.camel@HIDDEN> (Liliana Marie Prikler's message of "Sun, 23 Feb 2025 16:48:17 +0100") References: <b900cd17b88123af3ae95f4e7d572e540f86e879.camel@HIDDEN> <79bad06a6410932dd6c7785256fd589cfaff40f6.camel@HIDDEN> <87o6ys3eom.fsf_-_@HIDDEN> <8fea9aa02c0dec4574686d636d92fd74997d2c85.camel@HIDDEN> Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2025 23:07:02 +0100 Message-ID: <8734g3ro8p.fsf_-_@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76407 Cc: 76407 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Hello, Liliana Marie Prikler <liliana.prikler@HIDDEN> skribis: > Actually, the GCD does specify this: Oh right, sorry. >> Even after the `master` branch no longer syncs up to main, it may be >> important to still have it pointing at some commit. Old installation >> media, handcrafted `channels.scm`, external documentation and scripts >> may all still be referring to the `master` branch even long after the >> rename (see also Cost of Reverting below). To ensure that these do >> not fail immediately, the old branch shall not be deleted until >>=20 >> 1. at least one year has passed since this GCD has been accepted, AND >> 2. enough Guix releases have been made in the meantime, meaning >> a. at least one major release, OR >> b. at least three minor releases. Perfect! Since the notion of major/minor release is fuzzy in Guix, I=E2=80= =99d suggest something like: 2. two or more releases were made in the meantime. >> > +## Choice of branch name >>=20 >> I=E2=80=99m not convinced this section is necessary.=C2=A0 :-) > How do we achieve consensus on the proposed name itself, then? =E2=80=98main=E2=80=99 is an established and non-controversial name in this= context, which is why I thought we could omit the section. It=E2=80=99s no big deal though, we can keep it too. >> I don=E2=80=99t think this has to be simultaneous: both changes bring the >> potential for breakage if we=E2=80=99re not careful enough, but it=E2=80= =99s probably >> best to deal with a single class of breakage at a time. > Perhaps I am missing something crucial here, but IIUC most breakages > would result from the same record; with just one field between them.=20 > Since most configuration ends up being "fire and forget", reducing the > number of times they need to be edited sounds like a benefit to me. Hmm yes, maybe you=E2=80=99re right. The wording says =E2=80=9Cpossibly si= multaneous change=E2=80=9D so that leaves room. Thanks, Ludo=E2=80=99.
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76407; Package guix-patches.
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[85.127.114.32]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ffacd0b85a97d-38f258b439dsm28940633f8f.8.2025.02.23.07.47.43 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 23 Feb 2025 07:47:44 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <8fea9aa02c0dec4574686d636d92fd74997d2c85.camel@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#76407: [GCD] A better name for the default branch From: Liliana Marie Prikler <liliana.prikler@HIDDEN> To: Ludovic =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Court=E8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN> Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2025 16:48:17 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87o6ys3eom.fsf_-_@HIDDEN> References: <b900cd17b88123af3ae95f4e7d572e540f86e879.camel@HIDDEN> <79bad06a6410932dd6c7785256fd589cfaff40f6.camel@HIDDEN> <87o6ys3eom.fsf_-_@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable User-Agent: Evolution 3.48.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76407 Cc: 76407 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi Ludo=E2=80=99, Am Sonntag, dem 23.02.2025 um 15:42 +0100 schrieb Ludovic Court=C3=A8s: > Hi Liliana, >=20 > Liliana Marie Prikler <liliana.prikler@HIDDEN> skribis: >=20 > > +For Guix itself, we would decide on a **flag day** 14 days after > > +acceptance of this GCD at the earliest, and 30 days at the latest. > > +On that day, the main development branch would become "main". > > +A commit would reflect that by updating: > > + > > +=C2=A0 1. the `branch` field in `.guix-channel`; > > +=C2=A0 2. the `branch` field of `%default-guix-channel` in `(guix > > channels)`; > > +=C2=A0 3. any other reference to the "master" branch of the Guix > > repository > > +=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 that may appear in the repository (in particu= lar the Manual > > Updates > > +=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 above). >=20 > Consider this scenario: I have a machine that I upgrade once every > two months.=C2=A0 By the time the switchover is done, my machine still ha= s > =E2=80=98master=E2=80=99 in its =E2=80=98%default-guix-channel=E2=80=99 i= n its Guix.=C2=A0 Thus, when I > run =E2=80=98guix pull=E2=80=99, I=E2=80=99ll end up pulling =E2=80=98mas= ter=E2=80=99, which (the GCD does > not clarify this) will either fail because the branch has been > removed altogether, or will give me an old snapshot. Actually, the GCD does specify this: > Even after the `master` branch no longer syncs up to main, it may be > important to still have it pointing at some commit. Old installation > media, handcrafted `channels.scm`, external documentation and scripts > may all still be referring to the `master` branch even long after the > rename (see also Cost of Reverting below). To ensure that these do > not fail immediately, the old branch shall not be deleted until >=20 > 1. at least one year has passed since this GCD has been accepted, AND > 2. enough Guix releases have been made in the meantime, meaning > a. at least one major release, OR > b. at least three minor releases. > Thus, I think the GCD should propose to keep updating the =E2=80=98master= =E2=80=99 > branch as a mirror of =E2=80=98main=E2=80=99 for, say, a year (a cron job= can take > care of that). Fair enough. Keeping it updated for one year and then phasing it out should give folks more time to adopt. > Also, instead of changing the =E2=80=98branch=E2=80=99 field, I would sug= gest > adopting and finalizing <https://issues.guix.gnu.org/49252> and > leaving =E2=80=98branch=E2=80=99 unset so that the server-side default br= anch is > taken. SGTM. > > +## Choice of branch name >=20 > I=E2=80=99m not convinced this section is necessary.=C2=A0 :-) How do we achieve consensus on the proposed name itself, then? > > +The repository update path in this GCD is only valid as long as it > > is > > +simultaneously upheld by other, similar GCDs.=C2=A0 Again GCD 002 > > =E2=80=98Migrating > > +repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg=E2=80=99 needs to be > > considered as > > +a possibly simultaneous change. >=20 > I don=E2=80=99t think this has to be simultaneous: both changes bring the > potential for breakage if we=E2=80=99re not careful enough, but it=E2=80= =99s probably > best to deal with a single class of breakage at a time. Perhaps I am missing something crucial here, but IIUC most breakages would result from the same record; with just one field between them.=20 Since most configuration ends up being "fire and forget", reducing the number of times they need to be edited sounds like a benefit to me. > Also, perhaps clarify that this GCD is valid whether or not GCD 002 > is adopted. Sure. Cheers
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76407; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 76407) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Feb 2025 14:44:24 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Feb 23 09:44:24 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60078 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tmDDU-0004kw-IH for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Feb 2025 09:44:24 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:57266) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <ludo@HIDDEN>) id 1tmDDS-0004kZ-A6 for 76407 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Feb 2025 09:44:22 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <ludo@HIDDEN>) id 1tmDDN-0006m9-0m; Sun, 23 Feb 2025 09:44:17 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-Version:Date:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:To: From; bh=Fwf27XeRtxeHpcQ6OOwcDcd28b3FQkwt0FtYWoe78rc=; b=Bt+Vzsa6uJ8zHaGswHjM icS/MdRFYe9y1odGBuWApx2g5cfnsC0W7T8qUR31S3lIEyTexIYreucOG2ve4MocM34lzFS25+YtU sVhdPLxdpEQDiDaQIklJekI0J8c1QjDRZuI+cK4rO/+ZOW+vt58z7NmEBDGyvHiNicYqmzJ6rEh44 j5ZL5yprcKW27CactZlDzyHUjn5T+ALj/mT68yoabdNxCW9JxJp2+XGgwk6iynQ2q+eceYwKMOOlM jyClGY0g4jzlfgryQt/cx+w9Iqf4cwt2JlRc5rwPmBKSzjgGV50R3GG462pnEG5SBkzuS5ry6VfMQ DqxjkstKFLOlfg==; From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN> To: Liliana Marie Prikler <liliana.prikler@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#76407: [GCD] A better name for the default branch In-Reply-To: <79bad06a6410932dd6c7785256fd589cfaff40f6.camel@HIDDEN> (Liliana Marie Prikler's message of "Tue, 18 Feb 2025 23:14:29 +0100") References: <b900cd17b88123af3ae95f4e7d572e540f86e879.camel@HIDDEN> <79bad06a6410932dd6c7785256fd589cfaff40f6.camel@HIDDEN> Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2025 15:44:14 +0100 Message-ID: <87jz9g3em9.fsf_-_@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76407 Cc: 76407 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Liliana Marie Prikler <liliana.prikler@HIDDEN> skribis: > + 1. the `branch` field in `.guix-channel`; I just realized: there=E2=80=99s no =E2=80=98branch=E2=80=99 field in =E2= =80=98.guix-channel=E2=80=99. Ludo=E2=80=99.
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76407; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 76407) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Feb 2025 14:43:30 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Feb 23 09:43:30 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60073 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tmDCb-0004ir-La for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Feb 2025 09:43:30 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:47122) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <ludo@HIDDEN>) id 1tmDCV-0004iY-B8 for 76407 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 23 Feb 2025 09:43:26 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <ludo@HIDDEN>) id 1tmDCO-0006hG-EU; Sun, 23 Feb 2025 09:43:17 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-Version:Date:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:To: From; bh=uV/SyR0ty4ED3nT1DyIG5fI55I/5vtq/Hr9XFgT7EFg=; b=OvGbD5uK/py2iDMEPgMP KQlgGkbNXyQfzLa4p/HrcjlbXDDww5Q/kbYPHKmuz1QhSqcPGzMBk09LIm+/BvkOl8NKhuYdByoKY AjZBXPUPJFgwM1ZfhAiVgnrnHsvUdi2NDswNxcUXW5NlfGEoQ4x84TDu+zGhexNOcGNZ0sXHZ3Hcx QtuanTT3O9Cu00mFmkLfsFyCAKXpfvsxGalqPKkKaPuJTkEy+1zJciQkEepa6GlLkffAkBzqZ9pux SZR9/aBG6XnCx+HutqrJOcdS8XjUYy59x5eNZUjNpRd42pbuXg4rIIMoQDq48SR0pdDa6K09jHhY2 lPsr00mQisWNRA==; From: =?utf-8?Q?Ludovic_Court=C3=A8s?= <ludo@HIDDEN> To: Liliana Marie Prikler <liliana.prikler@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#76407: [GCD] A better name for the default branch In-Reply-To: <79bad06a6410932dd6c7785256fd589cfaff40f6.camel@HIDDEN> (Liliana Marie Prikler's message of "Tue, 18 Feb 2025 23:14:29 +0100") References: <b900cd17b88123af3ae95f4e7d572e540f86e879.camel@HIDDEN> <79bad06a6410932dd6c7785256fd589cfaff40f6.camel@HIDDEN> Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2025 15:42:49 +0100 Message-ID: <87o6ys3eom.fsf_-_@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76407 Cc: 76407 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) Hi Liliana, Liliana Marie Prikler <liliana.prikler@HIDDEN> skribis: > +For Guix itself, we would decide on a **flag day** 14 days after > +acceptance of this GCD at the earliest, and 30 days at the latest. > +On that day, the main development branch would become "main". > +A commit would reflect that by updating: > + > + 1. the `branch` field in `.guix-channel`; > + 2. the `branch` field of `%default-guix-channel` in `(guix channels)`; > + 3. any other reference to the "master" branch of the Guix repository > + that may appear in the repository (in particular the Manual Updates > + above). Consider this scenario: I have a machine that I upgrade once every two months. By the time the switchover is done, my machine still has =E2=80=98master=E2=80=99 in its =E2=80=98%default-guix-channel=E2=80=99 in = its Guix. Thus, when I run =E2=80=98guix pull=E2=80=99, I=E2=80=99ll end up pulling =E2=80=98master=E2= =80=99, which (the GCD does not clarify this) will either fail because the branch has been removed altogether, or will give me an old snapshot. Thus, I think the GCD should propose to keep updating the =E2=80=98master= =E2=80=99 branch as a mirror of =E2=80=98main=E2=80=99 for, say, a year (a cron job c= an take care of that). Also, instead of changing the =E2=80=98branch=E2=80=99 field, I would sugge= st adopting and finalizing <https://issues.guix.gnu.org/49252> and leaving =E2=80=98bra= nch=E2=80=99 unset so that the server-side default branch is taken. >+## Choice of branch name I=E2=80=99m not convinced this section is necessary. :-) > +The repository update path in this GCD is only valid as long as it is > +simultaneously upheld by other, similar GCDs. Again GCD 002 =E2=80=98Mi= grating > +repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg=E2=80=99 needs to be consi= dered as > +a possibly simultaneous change. I don=E2=80=99t think this has to be simultaneous: both changes bring the potential for breakage if we=E2=80=99re not careful enough, but it=E2=80=99= s probably best to deal with a single class of breakage at a time. Also, perhaps clarify that this GCD is valid whether or not GCD 002 is adopted. Apart from that, it LGTM! Ludo=E2=80=99.
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76407; Package guix-patches.
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I believe I understand what it's trying to achieve (and believe it is worthwhile), but I struggled to understand how this would be technically achieved. Could you please share the technical details of this specific part? -- Suhail
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76407; Package guix-patches.
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[85.127.114.32]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ffacd0b85a97d-38f259f8602sm24877252f8f.94.2025.02.21.11.55.53 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 21 Feb 2025 11:55:54 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <b52d4742266f6ace2d9eadf6490ed9a833434244.camel@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: [bug#76407] [GCD] A better name for the default branch From: Liliana Marie Prikler <liliana.prikler@HIDDEN> To: Simon Tournier <zimon.toutoune@HIDDEN>, 76407 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2025 20:56:29 +0100 In-Reply-To: <875xl3rwn2.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <b900cd17b88123af3ae95f4e7d572e540f86e879.camel@HIDDEN> <79bad06a6410932dd6c7785256fd589cfaff40f6.camel@HIDDEN> <875xl3rwn2.fsf@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable User-Agent: Evolution 3.48.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76407 Cc: Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli <GNUtoo@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi Am Freitag, dem 21.02.2025 um 19:16 +0100 schrieb Simon Tournier: > My current profile is: >=20 > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 $ guix describe > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Generation 8=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0Sep 09 2024 15:14:29=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0(current) > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 guix 056910e > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 reposi= tory URL: https://git.savannah.gnu.org/git/guix.git > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 commit= : 056910ec864cb7cf3225a0c27679d94405db7dcd >=20 > And many people upgrade guix-daemon less than once a year. :-) >=20 > My point is: I=E2=80=99m not sure that a grace period of 30 days will be > enough considering the time to spread the word.=C2=A0 But, hey we need to > bound somewhere. :-) I put one month there as an optimistic estimate :) We do have to talk about all the numbers used there as to whether they are realistic, whether we should be keeping somethings for longer and whether we can keep them for longer. > Therefore, maybe we could imagine that the last commit pushed master > introduce a double pull. >=20 > Assume I still run this 056910e and we are after the grace period.=C2=A0 = I > run =E2=80=9Cguix pull=E2=80=9D so it fetch the last commit of master.=C2= =A0 Now, when I > run again =E2=80=9Cguix pull=E2=80=9D, I will get the last commit of main= .=C2=A0 This > second pull could be transparent for me. I don't think we should do this for two reasons: First, the "double pull" commit would be introduced to master only, which would break authentication of the main branch pulled this way. Second, we would have to break Guix itself to introduce arbitrary code execution for this particular code =F0=9F=98=89 Perhaps instead, we can on the Git side "redirect" the master branch to main. This would avoid the double pull, and it would be truly transparent. Perhaps the following sequence of commands would achieve just that. (CC'ing Denis for their expertise) Am Mittwoch, dem 19.02.2025 um 02:12 +0100 schrieb Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli: > $ git checkout origin/master -b temporary > $ git push origin HEAD:main > $ ssh root@server > $ cd /path/to/repository.git > $ git symbolic-ref HEAD refs/heads/main # Change the main branch > $ git symbolic-ref refs/heads/master refs/heads/main # Make master > point to main > This might avoid: Oops why don=E2=80=99t I get the last?=C2=A0 Because yo= u=E2=80=99re > after the grace period. :-) >=20 > I don=E2=80=99t know if my suggestion is worth. Fair point. Double-pulling is a source of annoyance in other package managers, so we should do our best not to make it affect too many users. Cheers
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76407; Package guix-patches.
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From: Simon Tournier <zimon.toutoune@HIDDEN>
To: Liliana Marie Prikler <liliana.prikler@HIDDEN>, 76407 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: [bug#76407] [GCD] A better name for the default branch
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Hi,
On Tue, 18 Feb 2025 at 23:14, Liliana Marie Prikler <liliana.prikler@gmail.=
com> wrote:
> +## Repository Update Path
> +
> +For a complete list of repositories associated with the Guix project,
> +see GCD 002 =E2=80=98Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Code=
berg=E2=80=99.
> +Most repositories can rename their default branch with no issue
> +(see also Cost of Reverting below).
> +
> +For Guix itself, we would decide on a **flag day** 14 days after
> +acceptance of this GCD at the earliest, and 30 days at the latest.
> +On that day, the main development branch would become "main".
> +A commit would reflect that by updating:
> +
> + 1. the `branch` field in `.guix-channel`;
> + 2. the `branch` field of `%default-guix-channel` in `(guix channels)`;
> + 3. any other reference to the "master" branch of the Guix repository
> + that may appear in the repository (in particular the Manual Updates
> + above).
> +
> +Following this commit, an entry in `etc/news.scm` would explain the
> +migration. The `master` branch would then point at the commit of said
> +news entry, and would need to be updated only after said news are
> +translated into another language. The `master` branch may keep following
> +the `main` branch for a grace period of 30 days anyways.
> +
> +Even after the `master` branch no longer syncs up to main, it may be
> +important to still have it pointing at some commit. Old installation
> +media, handcrafted `channels.scm`, external documentation and scripts
> +may all still be referring to the `master` branch even long after the
> +rename (see also Cost of Reverting below). To ensure that these do
> +not fail immediately, the old branch shall not be deleted until
> +
> +1. at least one year has passed since this GCD has been accepted, AND
> +2. enough Guix releases have been made in the meantime, meaning
> + a. at least one major release, OR
> + b. at least three minor releases.
My current profile is:
$ guix describe
Generation 8 Sep 09 2024 15:14:29 (current)
guix 056910e
repository URL: https://git.savannah.gnu.org/git/guix.git
commit: 056910ec864cb7cf3225a0c27679d94405db7dcd
And many people upgrade guix-daemon less than once a year. :-)
My point is: I=E2=80=99m not sure that a grace period of 30 days will be en=
ough
considering the time to spread the word. But, hey we need to bound
somewhere. :-)
Therefore, maybe we could imagine that the last commit pushed master
introduce a double pull.
Assume I still run this 056910e and we are after the grace period. I
run =E2=80=9Cguix pull=E2=80=9D so it fetch the last commit of master. Now=
, when I run
again =E2=80=9Cguix pull=E2=80=9D, I will get the last commit of main. Thi=
s second pull
could be transparent for me.
In other words, I still run this 056910e and we are after the grace
period, then when running =E2=80=9Cguix pull=E2=80=9D, I automatically get =
the latest
up-to-date commit of main. Obviously, I pay the unavoidable price of a
first pull but under the hood pull.
This might avoid: Oops why don=E2=80=99t I get the last? Because you=E2=80=
=99re after
the grace period. :-)
I don=E2=80=99t know if my suggestion is worth.
Cheers,
simon
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76407; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 76407) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Feb 2025 13:35:37 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Fri Feb 21 08:35:37 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57129 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tlTBp-0004dU-0w for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Feb 2025 08:35:37 -0500 Received: from lab.riabenko.com ([185.143.146.30]:46258) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <roman@HIDDEN>) id 1tlTBk-0004cd-K4 for 76407 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Feb 2025 08:35:34 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=riabenko.com; s=selector; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:References: In-Reply-To:Message-Id:Subject:To:From:Date:From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date :Message-ID:To:Cc:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=VqaeVbMq+ZsOeyKw6+yK9Q1FdxJ2R9l7QZQviHE5/VU=; b=UOJ+EYewcYL0dyiTV1CMZMxQSI IxuxlgwteTxgFvNoq5y7EOhMGMdSr7KDIqFG1tBpP//4OEerAu54qLRikdVgZP5TSpmhDdTo/pxH7 QtJvHDUvNAh0CS4UjCB/Nnv8h7BmKnTq/thxia/wlEF5p/6a13jWVS/IObT/bB/f6VyHBtTHK4HDe OKVvVfvrsyhnFUutLCSd9VnugYoLx9BpaPysHW4JpGbLHnPJ/l78d3nqh6VxTBXozXi8OpPdONoN6 vvXLaSbkrEdg6RtZ87dFmMDbQ5l5216Ui9mmTX/ccovUziqC/VcfyqukGzA5LloANrcOnjvw5IsF+ QSqkck5w==; Received: from librecmc.lan ([192.168.10.1] helo=localhost) by lab.riabenko.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.98) (envelope-from <roman@HIDDEN>) id 1tlTBi-000000005hy-3mQP for 76407 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 21 Feb 2025 15:35:30 +0200 Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2025 15:35:20 +0200 From: Roman Riabenko <roman@HIDDEN> To: 76407 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: [bug#76407] [GCD] Rename the default branch Message-Id: <20250221153520.20b99610afcdf7bea76e9c6e@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <f78d40758e1838026fb3e796f037e917c26f761f.camel@HIDDEN> References: <d835c85c709a393309e6cad4ab065d039f1e08af.camel@HIDDEN> <f072096c292546c760d1342aa7d4f6c950027da9.camel@HIDDEN> <87seocwh1p.fsf@HIDDEN> <87msej45ha.fsf@HIDDEN> <87wmdk8fpd.fsf@wireframe> <c2532d09-e54b-49fe-9ace-dca55239f394@HIDDEN> <d2db73de82bb7bb3a6589a4299287d02dc961c14.camel@HIDDEN> <547c549d-970e-4331-8944-dc7a79698426@HIDDEN> <f78d40758e1838026fb3e796f037e917c26f761f.camel@HIDDEN> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.33; x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg="PGP-SHA256"; boundary="Signature=_Fri__21_Feb_2025_15_35_20_+0200_Qy8YQFQicP4dLnnD" X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76407 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) --Signature=_Fri__21_Feb_2025_15_35_20_+0200_Qy8YQFQicP4dLnnD Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello. Since guix-help was copied on this proposal, I would try to help too. The word "master" is a metaphor for a subordinate relation. It serves its technical purpose. It became a boilerplate. So, it is easily recognisable by sophisticated audience, which makes it difficult to argue that it is ambiguous for practical purposes. However, being boilerplate, it does not accurately describe the purpose of that git branch in guix. For instance, I am not convinced that other branches being "subordinate" to that branch in some way is its defining characteristic. I would argue that the word "main" is also irrelevant because it describes a relation of importance, which does not seem to be relevant to the development cycle, neither to building a community. So, the proposed change to "main" is suboptimal from my perspective. I would propose the word "release" instead. The word is already widely used in guix to refer to published source code of stable versions of software, so it should be easily recognisable and describe the purpose of the branch accurately. This is the branch where the guix code is realeased and where the guix releases are published. I would note that, as long as a better metaphor can be afforded and considering that the matter has already been considered important enough to bring it up, discussing the background of the proposal does not appear to be productive or relevant for arriving at a solution. Roman --Signature=_Fri__21_Feb_2025_15_35_20_+0200_Qy8YQFQicP4dLnnD Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEbyuIUwJNVUrtp3hK60bLvjKDmmkFAme4gRgACgkQ60bLvjKD mml0yg/+JnHq0HYZUmnrVbU1mK95j98U+zxD3n74AGBBDc5fNVUMKg5M1cYpGBrM 1yJXtK0IN3Ee0F7yLy+Aw+hw2vygw77xwG5hMWtpydetWxF8yS5AaUCcutJWs0DJ S5XybjeutX0n2vJqDb9ECCsvZDggZ3PFSKJzCcyLDEPJ8I1v8S451LcMhMnd8H89 Ao0ggFMFAvT7M/ifIISAnP4etcIlh43oAI4NXoqwZJrTlqSV/XABON0AnSnbVUYR J8gY6Mi5UD1lMChIDvRhpMLlTu4pDZfgpnxN2qe9435FFE4szzNTcyCbctSigyGk sILOIu52/yQdxqlTtJ/ZS/G1RsIHwEfeEO+14ogn5RWNw9udFuDXMWB8GKcOT3Ue 5jxih3D+Ewa4M9vVk42wa1buTx+Uika2jtAofy2oKlhTU7dv1ccLNotL0ISCU0eX YOPLV4A5P5T4LXl8xEJ6VJzCSNVtnwMbQBCBBuuCWBXkfVS344FAZzx6QpXo6FEM /ar2cgJTezi9zWDjhd04G1M8SScEJVciCRG1P4LsTQoWUfhZbahM/tTHWEZtx85T Qc8rHLmg4uUgKMCrlgkhfO0HzdxvT8EtAhevZDCxFWzcjchcFOUDrIa9wYDD6yzS vQXtR0+IwK90irmPzVJYS7O1j61yCbFOLokBw7XMUu1foYZIPgw= =3lAh -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Signature=_Fri__21_Feb_2025_15_35_20_+0200_Qy8YQFQicP4dLnnD--
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76407; Package guix-patches.
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[85.127.114.32]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a640c23a62f3a-abb97dea08fsm1013152366b.53.2025.02.21.04.56.02 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 21 Feb 2025 04:56:02 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <f78d40758e1838026fb3e796f037e917c26f761f.camel@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: [bug#76407] [GCD] Rename the default branch From: Liliana Marie Prikler <liliana.prikler@HIDDEN> To: Ekaitz Zarraga <ekaitz@HIDDEN>, Christopher Howard <christopher@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2025 13:56:38 +0100 In-Reply-To: <547c549d-970e-4331-8944-dc7a79698426@HIDDEN> References: <d835c85c709a393309e6cad4ab065d039f1e08af.camel@HIDDEN> <f072096c292546c760d1342aa7d4f6c950027da9.camel@HIDDEN> <87seocwh1p.fsf@HIDDEN> <87msej45ha.fsf@HIDDEN> <87wmdk8fpd.fsf@wireframe> <c2532d09-e54b-49fe-9ace-dca55239f394@HIDDEN> <d2db73de82bb7bb3a6589a4299287d02dc961c14.camel@HIDDEN> <547c549d-970e-4331-8944-dc7a79698426@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable User-Agent: Evolution 3.48.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76407 Cc: 76407 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Am Freitag, dem 21.02.2025 um 11:48 +0100 schrieb Ekaitz Zarraga: > > Third, people who feel represented by this change have no > > obligation to tell you that in this level of detail.=C2=A0 In fact, > > given the attitudes of some people replying to this GCD, it would > > be wiser for them not to. >=20 > Saying "I support" is more than enough, but I would really want to > know if they actually exist, because I'd like to make sure we are > doing this for something. Given that I've received four sponsors over the course of a weekend, I'm not really concerned that this benefits no one. > I don't think it's infeasible. It is actually very feasible, you=20 > just need to change the branch name and push. Done. >=20 > The problem is that some people already shared their concern, while I > don't see any justification for the change that has the same weight. So you mean that people have non-technical concerns about the name of the default branch? I won't repeat your arguments, but yes, I understand that you want it to remain at "master". =20 I have listed some issues that this GCD does not address at the end of the document. To my knowledge, these are the points raised so far that it cannot address. If you would like me to add another that is within the scope of the document, do let me know. > I don't see any kind of internationalist approach here, we are just > swallowing whatever garbage an US company throws to us and tells us > is good. >=20 > This proposal is very US-centric, and goes according to their values, > and religion. That's why it became popular there. Even assuming that this is true, how is this any different from swallowing garbage, that some US entity told us 10 years ago is good (i.e. the status quo)? I also don't think there is a clear mapping between "thing happening in the USA/outside the USA" and "thing good/bad". The world is more complex than that, with some nuance to it. In any case, I think that the Guix community can =E2=80=93 using the recent= ly established process for doing so =E2=80=93 reach a consensus on what the na= me of the default branch shall be.=20 > I don't think Linus Torvalds called the branch "master" thinking > about slavery or as a way to shame people,=C2=A0 This is not about Linus' intentions. People can have opinions that differ from those of Linus Torvalds. > I don't think removing the word is really going to change anything.=C2=A0 Acknowledged. > But will do some (maybe little) damage in Guix, as some people > already discussed. What damage will it to, exactly? So far, I think the concerns are - a mild inconvenience to contributors checking out the new default branch - a mild inconvenience to channel authors, requiring them to explicitly state their default branch - an almost user-invisible change possibly causing them to run=20 `guix pull` twice on a particularly old checkout Perhaps, you also consider adoption of this change to result in reputational damage to Guix. If so, why? > If we need to make the life of a couple US-Americans a little bit=20 > uncomfortable in order to keep our software working as intended, so > be it. Do we need though? Or are you simply resisting change for the sake of doing so? Note that this assertion also contradicts the one you made earlier that this change can "easily be pushed and done". =20 > I am uncomfortable every time I need to speak in english here (a=20 > reminder of how the USA imperialism is forced upon me), and here we > are. Wir k=C3=B6nnen auch Deutsch miteinander reden, damit h=C3=A4tte ich kein Problem. > Consider me done here. Okay. Cheers
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76407; Package guix-patches.
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charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spampanel-Class: ham X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76407 Cc: 76407 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi, On 2025-02-21 09:57, Liliana Marie Prikler wrote: > (Moved discussion to bug number) > > Am Donnerstag, dem 20.02.2025 um 23:57 +0100 schrieb Ekaitz Zarraga: >> I don't find this dismissive. At all. I only see a person sharing his >> opinion, which, sadly, I think is pretty hard in this kind of >> subject. > Please educate yourself on right-wing dogwhistles then. I will quote > one for context: > > Am Dienstag, dem 18.02.2025 um 06:50 -0900 schrieb Christopher Howard: >> DEI proponents have a compulsive desire to eradicate from society and >> language anything that has some vague connection to what they find >> displeasing. Telling people to educate themselves could also be offensive and all, but you don't hesitate to do it. Do you actually care about being welcoming? Just food for thought. Listen, I don't give a shit about the political views of Christopher, or whatever you think about them. People has the right to be right-wingers, weather we like it or not. Just that is enough to discard somebody's opinion? Is that diversity? Doesn't "right-with dog-whistle" sound a little bit like "woke". To me, it does. Keep throwing names to the table, while nobody else in the world cares about your left vs right debate. We are making software for people. For all people that wants to use it. Bad news: many of them are right wingers. And some of them are between us. And I believe they are also welcome here, as long as they don't mistreat any other person (the same as the left wingers or the no-wingers). > Am Donnerstag, dem 20.02.2025 um 23:57 +0100 schrieb Ekaitz Zarraga: >> I made questions, and no one has give me an answer that is anything >> more than a feeling of something they don't suffer themselves. >> Nobody, specially not even a single black person, who were supposed >> to be the reason for all this, has ever told me this is something >> they feel represented with this change. > First, this is not just about black people, but any group of people > that feels uncomfortable with the term "master" being used in this > context. Uncomfortable? I am uncomfortable writing in english, as it is my third language. Should we change the language to spanish, my mother tongue? There's a lot of people in the basque community that get angry when a basque talks in spanish, so those are going to be uncomfortable... We should change to Basque! That will make everybody happy. The term "master" being used in this context does not have anything to do with anything that should make anyone uncomfortable. Isn't the word "git" itself way worse in that sense? Guix is a Catalan surname, maybe some of them are uncomfortable by its name, we should change it too! > Second, people can care about matters they are not personally affected > by. It's called having empathy. Well, people can also invent a problem, as I just did. That's not empathy. > Third, people who feel represented by this change have no obligation to > tell you that in this level of detail. In fact, given the attitudes of > some people replying to this GCD, it would be wiser for them not to. Saying "I support" is more than enough, but I would really want to know if they actually exist, because I'd like to make sure we are doing this for something. What do you think it's going to happen if they speak their truth? Are they going to be harassed? By who? The only thing I see here is people saying they don't like the change being mistreated as they were some kind of right wing scum. >> If a change is going to negatively affect the users of the software I >> make I need to justify it properly. >> >> Until this very moment, nobody did. Even if I am actually very >> concerned about human rights, I find the arguments exposed not only >> in this thread but also in the original Git branch naming discussion >> very poor. > I think you are — intentionally or otherwise — overestimating the > negative effects of the proposed change in order to construct a world > where it is infeasible. No, I don't think it's infeasible. It is actually very feasible, you just need to change the branch name and push. Done. The problem is that some people already shared their concern, while I don't see any justification for the change that has the same weight. >> More specifically in Guix, I'm still yet to find a good thing coming >> from this change, and there are many cons already. It's a net >> negative change from a technical perspective. > There is little technical debate to be had about this change being > feasible. Git supports named branches — it always has — and > sufficiently recent versions also support an initial branch that isn't > "master". > > There can be a discussion of what steps would need to be made in Guix > particularly to accommodate this change. This concerns locations in > the code and documentation that assume "master" to be the default name > of a Guix channel, particularly the default Guix channel (i.e. "guix"). > > The issue of what to name the default branch is entirely a > political/organizational one, one in which we cannot avoid showing the > colour of our hearts as we debate. I disagree. Very strongly. It's you, and those who think like you, who is charging this word with some political value it doesn't have. I am NOT in favor of slavery and I am NOT against making everybody's live easier. (and interestingly I'm probably in the same side of the political spectrum as you are). What I discuss here is that I don't think there is any kind of relation with changing this stupid word and making the world a better place. That doesn't show the color of my heart, because I'm just trying to be rational here. We serve the world. Our political views (or how you call them: the color of our heart) are very narrow. I don't see any kind of internationalist approach here, we are just swallowing whatever garbage an US company throws to us and tells us is good. This proposal is very US-centric, and goes according to their values, and religion. That's why it became popular there. Thankfully for many, the world is not the United States of America. In my view there's nothing shameful in words, even in the F word or in the N word. The wrong in is in the intention. The intention you have here Liliana is good. But I don't think Linus Torvalds called the branch "master" thinking about slavery or as a way to shame people, and I don't think removing the word is really going to change anything. But will do some (maybe little) damage in Guix, as some people already discussed. If we need to make the life of a couple US-Americans a little bit uncomfortable in order to keep our software working as intended, so be it. I am uncomfortable every time I need to speak in english here (a reminder of how the USA imperialism is forced upon me), and here we are. --- This debate is draining me, so consider me done here. In the end, you are trying to make this look like those who oppose the change are not welcoming neither empathetic, and that's bullshit. The funny thing of all this is that the times I have felt unwelcome, and I have been gaslighted in this community, and I have seen passive-aggressive answers was coming from you, Liliana, and I have been trying to avoid interacting with you for long because of it. I don't like this change, and I don't like to see that you are trying to make this whole thing look like we are bad people. I am not convinced.
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76407; Package guix-patches.
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[85.127.114.32]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ffacd0b85a97d-38f258ccd95sm22809386f8f.25.2025.02.21.00.57.16 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 21 Feb 2025 00:57:16 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <d2db73de82bb7bb3a6589a4299287d02dc961c14.camel@HIDDEN> Subject: [bug#76407] [GCD] Rename the default branch From: Liliana Marie Prikler <liliana.prikler@HIDDEN> To: Ekaitz Zarraga <ekaitz@HIDDEN>, Vagrant Cascadian <vagrant@HIDDEN>, Christopher Howard <christopher@HIDDEN> Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2025 09:57:54 +0100 In-Reply-To: <c2532d09-e54b-49fe-9ace-dca55239f394@HIDDEN> References: <d835c85c709a393309e6cad4ab065d039f1e08af.camel@HIDDEN> <f072096c292546c760d1342aa7d4f6c950027da9.camel@HIDDEN> <87seocwh1p.fsf@HIDDEN> <87msej45ha.fsf@HIDDEN> <87wmdk8fpd.fsf@wireframe> <c2532d09-e54b-49fe-9ace-dca55239f394@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable User-Agent: Evolution 3.48.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76407 Cc: 76407 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) (Moved discussion to bug number) Am Donnerstag, dem 20.02.2025 um 23:57 +0100 schrieb Ekaitz Zarraga: > I don't find this dismissive. At all. I only see a person sharing his > opinion, which, sadly, I think is pretty hard in this kind of > subject. Please educate yourself on right-wing dogwhistles then. I will quote one for context: Am Dienstag, dem 18.02.2025 um 06:50 -0900 schrieb Christopher Howard: > DEI proponents have a compulsive desire to eradicate from society and > language anything that has some vague connection to what they find > displeasing. Am Donnerstag, dem 20.02.2025 um 23:57 +0100 schrieb Ekaitz Zarraga: > I made questions, and no one has give me an answer that is anything > more than a feeling of something they don't suffer themselves. > Nobody, specially not even a single black person, who were supposed > to be the reason for all this, has ever told me this is something > they feel represented with this change. First, this is not just about black people, but any group of people that feels uncomfortable with the term "master" being used in this context. Second, people can care about matters they are not personally affected by. It's called having empathy. Third, people who feel represented by this change have no obligation to tell you that in this level of detail. In fact, given the attitudes of some people replying to this GCD, it would be wiser for them not to. > If a change is going to negatively affect the users of the software I > make I need to justify it properly. >=20 > Until this very moment, nobody did. Even if I am actually very > concerned about human rights, I find the arguments exposed not only > in this thread but also in the original Git branch naming discussion > very poor. I think you are =E2=80=94 intentionally or otherwise =E2=80=94 overestimati= ng the negative effects of the proposed change in order to construct a world where it is infeasible. > [T]hose who oppose them have to justify them to death,=20 > while being respectful, but also carefully not to sound like Nazis to > them. Well, they could at least be courteous about it and not scream "DEI" and "woke" at a proposed change they do not like or something. =E2=80=BE\_(=E3=83=84)_/=E2=80=BE > More specifically in Guix, I'm still yet to find a good thing coming=20 > from this change, and there are many cons already. It's a net > negative change from a technical perspective. There is little technical debate to be had about this change being feasible. Git supports named branches =E2=80=94 it always has =E2=80=94 an= d sufficiently recent versions also support an initial branch that isn't "master". There can be a discussion of what steps would need to be made in Guix particularly to accommodate this change. This concerns locations in the code and documentation that assume "master" to be the default name of a Guix channel, particularly the default Guix channel (i.e. "guix"). The issue of what to name the default branch is entirely a political/organizational one, one in which we cannot avoid showing the colour of our hearts as we debate. Am Donnerstag, dem 20.02.2025 um 14:44 -0900 schrieb Christopher Howard: > Also, I think that the word "main" is just as bigoted and non- > inclusive as "master". I mean, what can be more demeaning than saying > that one branch is the "main" one and in some sense more important > than the others? Perhaps one branch being the "master record", the only trusted, authentic source, whereas all others =E2=80=94 particularly those that had changes applied to them =E2=80=94 are untrusted and/or inauthentic by distinction. In practice, the main branch requires certain guarantees that other branches do not: team branches can (and arguably should) routinely be rebased on the main branch. If the main branch were to be rebased, however, all users would receive an error upon pull. Cheers
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76407; Package guix-patches.
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Fri, 21 Feb 2025 06:58:28 +0000 (UTC) Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2025 06:58:10 +0000 From: Tobias Geerinckx-Rice <me@HIDDEN> To: 76407 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Subject: [GCD] A better name for the default branch Message-ID: <CA3E79B7-498C-44E6-BD90-85E8531AABF5@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Autocrypt: addr=me@HIDDEN; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBFVks2ABEACjGBPhWf/qx0L9OhEIrAFTimo5dHa1FLy0AHaHvxmwYSIdJmERYGiNle1rcOvw cFRtu8KJUsrs27Vgoso3qHJpghVitUUf0v3ZuXQT9kfuQLz1Y8pyMzHwVFMLiJVj4Z3y7CJk+xyZ cpSAMbyPINbFVEhsK+z+8ojVGuaiucZkib6b67ySG6Pp1bon8xVvosj71ZRjfXh1t4X8laWO7fQq itT9lmc6DxbE/4vIhR+Vb2MblaA+DyHoNHGGao89h4CO99lfzWzsux41DnEG9d317sJRQTig6Wja EKHXZRA9FbfogD4SDa2uQYCpTJpsVjAyZyu2fuJ+t0zJJ+Ai9qDY87P6hOyd+/n8Eh2Y4TbxJiDo XUT72XY/RfPH1qrMIP3EI/NNL4LQeGG1n+625k3OVWcRVXG2vRrB6qurLmGkLEmjXWCFD9cCRGfH LeajLm9sM+t/nZPZ3btetcmK9tM2EwivyLUNhrTk73UUnI4CSAzdO2cISqo9zSMtFgj2alqd2fOR s7CKfEn+5PquruDbp/Ej7dOOrjgWSCXLDDYXRrtaKrLz/dhqq5ftFYi9tUTTQecFotM08fPtu+Kw JMP2ySHCkUqp0GvrUCeSRPAJZsmJrd535y+LlRhnqb0mbG4dgMa8A6xhkFYugnqldy/q7kX1EmRI 686N7bA6fh1MCQARAQABtCRUb2JpYXMgR2VlcmluY2t4LVJpY2UgPG1lQHRvYmlhcy5ncj6JAlIE EwEKADwCHgECF4ACGQECGwMWIQT1vFU0w28Ah7OdNu8cncT+udt8SwUCXpe0rAYLCQgHCgQFFQoJ CAsFFgMCAQAACgkQHJ3E/rnbfEu5IhAAk+0BW/twLmx1xMmeXn+I7Ne6SG3++0TRBduEaGWV3n59 lX6XPZUQdAPpS4uy0H+c90Owkw+aWUEwfyOWphrxZRtR2cCOP/3Pxj3Vgtz5RkY4u27lMj15jqa/ p7l2l256ZKJOegr9TvOWtkhMp5lxeVHT6f/44Kv/r/8mMCgSnLXYrEWPE462xI+mIJOanHLJb6No f2xLRCvXoLLp7Yejjv1dwOO71R9PMRhtNy46pZM1ylQ++UTkeSocJw4aNtiu0DHOkX9AlNBkutIx x07RpO+MqJKlzzLeQiC/fE5+dR2itRONopwXAqN3MuT7MonQo5XifBn+VK8i9xZWTXZDkWItWtCC 8oIj4zwxwFWiTmMwwSbI3Wdd/11Zw3CLc4Gd0M6NVgvAnuErQXSgr4lrWhZcncvi4L6EJTc9AUSa 8UWPF+S9t+CHTukpJmcYnsccMkOBhT7OZlmWBsylrYK/JTRWqgWSHWdSKmOuLK+MGDneOZEHkEcf jeXRWvmG7MSU5tE/p7NDLIg9vkvhQV9b0q4OtY65uNWbRe2QRJaYMDcYUAeSZzivRa8VaoVen6tb FvH44zpCxubn23ABl9YIzwvJC++r+H2qLdLpy0cfITiZadZ74Ae0aosNw7XARS6OY+A03BfXyPiI 2oW0jf/PdH9sh2mQrQxIQJ5cZz6Z3X20MFRvYmlhcyBHZWVyaW5ja3gtUmljZSAodG9iaWFzLmdy KSA8bWVAdG9iaWFzLmdyPokCNgQwAQoAIBYhBPW8VTTDbwCHs5027xydxP6523xLBQJZUuJkAh0g AAoJEBydxP6523xLwEoP/iaVWdICefmaZ+bkdUg6hwTKxSPlYdLoaCxYI5V2NnZYXG0dy47E7WJP 4EmTDldcne4UG5NyCgXPSMZDNMqcddEMNbmlssTcLKyu6R/VvTcuL3pEhNoLzm9t2IHR/YGAHJIc pyfmJ3amGSlsbo6s6Vv+mbrJTRPIDpLUst/PDoGYihcSKTxoIw8RtNAy+FAliIdJ8ZuPA3BTxQei sQzgWJo68UInvnFp4juq0zupNDqKddemI8kZCRK/fFPBDD71nqiSJjx2tvbjkTiPU9gmTp7Nulgj ZATZIt0pUhn87w15ItzrsiEjTYCMTmHY5wnvyLarFKZLzQjgUJfsbv4WRJRnX0/EEJWMvMtSdtXL fjwTLrSGAr4vh13PMfE6uVkGkeCV/8BfGJqRE4zkI+QOVILw6VSAP6sdtGSGb52bcCuPj7p9zGIB IuKFudT+DzUb5uV2jbahSjJ8X4Ak/ruG2Hv3iICZawDpHV1JDNgY910KNi5T6gFrjFA2G6aiXDCO SlToLPnPBYH85UVOsp2VykE9AREKS7a7o76cibjwBNN+4xJqJRxhs9YH4JKzE3w/ptVnx49QFBGc pjPkzMTs7DtanD8iqL4J6afnycv9KqIlNJONaMHvzxeunV7QCsoF6DdusZJKFMexiDBaOFUmGFFS XfzK2oNjknx1QApyTPvhiQJpBBMBCgBTAhsvAh4BAheAAhkBBAsJCAcFFQoJCAsFFgMCAQASGGhr cDovL3BncC5taXQuZWR1FiEE9bxVNMNvAIeznTbvHJ3E/rnbfEsFAllS4TwFCRa6MNwACgkQHJ3E /rnbfEuMFg//csSmcerqM+h1jwlKPJ4UiLXj3kFxSuSr0DrJzgLIpjuMdB2bhJ3YZwJTrZI9P7DP v+ebTKoeCjxoi5zJcINakZ9/FBn3cOCsYmpdHdaOPm34pHh9c0y9+NAvGJvugBRWIWK3qYYJzjff YL1r5lGCM4FXuhTcjVTTs5iCvYlAhtnHEAM6+c+mftdwrCJaqCiz3G13OCtpujn8fOn/B2nv6ZdT hen3Xqh3xBU2PnxPhVtyOulsJ318SKbUAk0h3tbLLkzFIS+7XvpHuwB72NkZw233IAN1Uq/nmJK/ YIsi+icNGpI60+PnLFiqYrSmtD6BCf8pOPq+isscu5uTuhfHt8fjLZPiqyf12CLoNKIp94sUi/1n M75GKz9MPWs6vqosq+E1xs9wVBw0gwUluejWgg3mIE3754W6xQ6tnpspdrt+x5kykfPMD3r1T8uq +z4ZUtE3A6QIjjxzIN0Xk8ZpC5Mg3yUzhyM1qF4e8pM2U7/tJC9BO5CNWJmKBqmGZ5sYw85wjEZ+ WnfU770tgCGZjcjIYjqYuoCgHMd2J8pkXdf76CINWK4+fCoKHr/4kWfU3e8ikFStTBer/Bu5tXa5 RPh90F6l2DNRitUdv+7vAiFnAuP61ZSUSqRbOiE1SPTv4cGBOCgB7xIOU6+rKzlweR/vO0otLZc+ TyFnSKPrfzg= X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76407 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) There's a (broken) thread discussing this proposal on guix-devel@: <https://lists=2Egnu=2Eorg/archive/html/guix-devel/2025-02/msg00278=2Ehtml= > <https://lists=2Egnu=2Eorg/archive/html/guix-devel/2025-02/msg00357=2Ehtml= > I hope it continues here instead=2E Kind regards, T G-R Sent on the go=2E Excuse or enjoy my brevity=2E
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76407; Package guix-patches.
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[85.127.114.32]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ffacd0b85a97d-38f258b4344sm21583708f8f.13.2025.02.20.10.23.08 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 20 Feb 2025 10:23:08 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <035d5bb2e0fe23419879b1566789d82eb604d887.camel@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: [bug#76407] [GCD] A better name for the default branch From: Liliana Marie Prikler <liliana.prikler@HIDDEN> To: Simon Tournier <zimon.toutoune@HIDDEN>, 76407 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2025 19:23:47 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87frk8lea9.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <b900cd17b88123af3ae95f4e7d572e540f86e879.camel@HIDDEN> <79bad06a6410932dd6c7785256fd589cfaff40f6.camel@HIDDEN> <87frk8lea9.fsf@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable User-Agent: Evolution 3.48.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76407 Cc: info-guix@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Am Donnerstag, dem 20.02.2025 um 18:25 +0100 schrieb Simon Tournier: > Hi Liliana, >=20 > A minor comment is to title: =E2=80=9CRename the default branch name=E2= =80=9C or > =E2=80=9CRename from master to main=E2=80=9D.=C2=A0 And not use word as = =E2=80=9Cbetter=E2=80=9D. Okay. > Now, it=E2=80=99s submitted, I recommend to push this revision to a dedic= ated > branch, say =E2=80=99wip-default-branch-name=E2=80=99 directly to the GCD= s > repository. > [=E2=80=A6] > Feel free to just fetch and push if it appears to you fine. I fetched and updated; preserving history. > > +SPDX-License-Identifier: CC-BY-SA-4.0 OR GFDL-1.3-no-invariants- > > only >=20 > The recommendation is GFDL-1.3-no-invariants-or-later; see [1,2].=C2=A0 > And I think it would be better, no?=C2=A0 Maybe you have something > specific in mind? Nah, I just copied one of the outdated templates D: Cheers
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76407; Package guix-patches.
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From: Simon Tournier <zimon.toutoune@HIDDEN>
To: Liliana Marie Prikler <liliana.prikler@HIDDEN>, 76407 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: Re: [bug#76407] [GCD] A better name for the default branch
In-Reply-To: <79bad06a6410932dd6c7785256fd589cfaff40f6.camel@HIDDEN>
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<79bad06a6410932dd6c7785256fd589cfaff40f6.camel@HIDDEN>
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2025 18:25:02 +0100
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Hi Liliana,
A minor comment is to title: =E2=80=9CRename the default branch name=E2=80=
=9C or =E2=80=9CRename
from master to main=E2=80=9D. And not use word as =E2=80=9Cbetter=E2=80=9D.
The rest is logistical stuff, FWIW.
On Tue, 18 Feb 2025 at 23:14, Liliana Marie Prikler <liliana.prikler@gmail.=
com> wrote:
> +status: submitted
> +discussion: https://issues.guix.gnu.org/76407
> +authors: Liliana Marie Prikler
> +sponsors: Simon Tournier, Ian Eure, Vagrant Cascadian, Ludovic Court=C3=
=A8s
> +date: 2025-02-18
Now, it=E2=80=99s submitted, I recommend to push this revision to a dedicat=
ed
branch, say =E2=80=99wip-default-branch-name=E2=80=99 directly to the GCDs =
repository.
https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/guix/guix-consensus-documents.git
Well, I did but instead of pushing to it, I only pushed to my personal
copy of the repository:
https://codeberg.org/zimoun/guix-consensus-documents/commits/branch/wip=
-default-branch-name
Feel free to just fetch and push if it appears to you fine.
Why? Based on the experience of 001, it can quickly become a mess. :-)
There is several revisions in different emails and all becomes harder
and harder to follow. Do I read the last revision? This one? And no
there is this yet another email? And that MUA screwed up the subject=E2=80=
=A6
etc. Hard to follow; especially for the ones who just want to read the
last current revision.
Moreover, it=E2=80=99s more comfortable to read a plain file than a diff, I=
MHO.
For example, one revision of 001:
https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/guix/guix-consensus-documents.git/tre=
e/0001-rfc-process.md?id=3D7da54b980efcd23ce662040b00712bd7fa76982e
(It perfectly works with Emacs browser EWW so it works for any browser. ;-))
Last, having all the revisions in a dedicated branch allows to easily
diff between each revision.
My 2 cents. :-)
> +SPDX-License-Identifier: CC-BY-SA-4.0 OR GFDL-1.3-no-invariants-only
The recommendation is GFDL-1.3-no-invariants-or-later; see [1,2]. And I
think it would be better, no? Maybe you have something specific in
mind?
1: https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/guix/guix-consensus-documents.git/tree=
/000-template.md?id=3Dc6a594ceb316e23bea975928eb2f40b7df450c94#n8
2: https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/guix/guix-consensus-documents.git/tree=
/001-gcd-process.md?id=3Dc6a594ceb316e23bea975928eb2f40b7df450c94#n8
Cheers,
simon
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76407; Package guix-patches.
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[85.127.114.32]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ffacd0b85a97d-38f25a0fa1esm18385732f8f.100.2025.02.19.11.01.04 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 19 Feb 2025 11:01:04 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <64c4631029ff07927e3a1cb181be2ea05df8a03a.camel@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: [bug#76407] [GCD] A better name for the default branch From: Liliana Marie Prikler <liliana.prikler@HIDDEN> To: Christopher Baines <mail@HIDDEN>, 76407 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2025 20:01:45 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87wmdlhmu4.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <b900cd17b88123af3ae95f4e7d572e540f86e879.camel@HIDDEN> <79bad06a6410932dd6c7785256fd589cfaff40f6.camel@HIDDEN> <87wmdlhmu4.fsf@HIDDEN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable User-Agent: Evolution 3.48.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76407 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Hi, Am Mittwoch, dem 19.02.2025 um 17:21 +0000 schrieb Christopher Baines: > > +=C2=A0 1. the `branch` field in `.guix-channel`; >=20 > This doesn't exist as far as I'm aware? >=20 > That record does have a url field, which is important as it means > that Guix can highlight when there is a mismatch between the URL > being used and the contents of the channel. >=20 > I think it's worth considering what a similar mechanism might look > like for branch names. Maybe Guix could have a notion of whether it's > using the "primary" branch for a channel (if you pull or time-machine > to a specific --branch, this is ignored), and that record could > contain the name of the primary branch, and then Guix could highlight > when the two differ. Nice catch. I did copy the wording from the Codeberg GCD, which talks about updating URL. If `branch` is not considered by .guix-channel, that's one field less to update. > That mechanism would allow for clearer messaging to users, since they > could see it again and again, rather than a news entry which would > usually only be shown once. >=20 > > (define-record-type* <channel> channel make-channel > > =C2=A0 channel? > > =C2=A0 (name=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 channel-name) > > =C2=A0 (url=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 channel-url) > > =C2=A0 (branch=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 channel-branch (default "master")) > > =C2=A0 (commit=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 channel-commit (default #f)) > > =C2=A0 (introduction channel-introduction (default #f)) > > =C2=A0 (location=C2=A0 channel-location > > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 (default (current-source-location)) (innate))) >=20 > Is changing or removing the channel-branch default in the scope of > this GCD? I think channel-branch should reflect the new default. > I'm in two minds about this. It's just the default, so it's trivial > to change it for the default channel. But ignoring it doesn't seem > consistent with the rest of the proposal. >=20 > Additionally, if the guix channel changes, then this might encourage > people managing other channels to make similar changes, and I think > there might be different and potentially more serious technical > issues with managing that change. I think it would be sensible to > ensure there's a good path for channels in general to change branch > naming before making the switch for the Guix channel. Perhaps we could warn channel authors in advance that the default branch is subject to change and ask them to set "branch" explicitly. > > +Following this commit, an entry in `etc/news.scm` would explain > > the > > +migration.=C2=A0 The `master` branch would then point at the commit of > > said > > +news entry, and would need to be updated only after said news are > > +translated into another language. >=20 > In this scenario, assuming you're suggesting only pushing the news > entry related commits to "master", I think the branches diverging > would be problematic. The point here is that we don't have to keep master updated indefinitely, but it should point towards a commit that is also on main. Denis 'GNUtoo' Carikli has another idea using symbolic references. > Assuming you're using the default channel configuration, if you pull > to one of these commits on "master", which isn't on the new master > branch, then I think the next time you go to pull, you'd hit the > downgrade protections (or at least you should do), since this is > exactly the kind of downgrade attack that it's trying to prevent > against. You'd be pulling a commit which isn't a descendant of the > commit you're currently on. See above. > ... >=20 > I also haven't even started to think about what implications this > would have for the services I'm involved with maintaining. The data > service instances and the bordeaux build coordinator all have current > and historic references to the "master" branch. In particular, the > data service goes beyond branches being pointers to commits and > records the state of branches over time. >=20 > It isn't immediately obvious to me how the data service could be > adapted to handle branches changing name to both capture that a > branch may have never actually pointed at a commit, but that commit > is in the history of the branch in the Git sense. I think with the > current behaviour, we'd have the history of the "master" branch > (unless that's deleted), and then separately the history for the new > master (not "master") branch, but that would start when that branch > was cteated, and the two histories would be separate from the view of > the data service, and this representation seems rather lacking. Good point, we should add a section talking about the Guix Data Service. Cheers
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76407; Package guix-patches.
Full text available.Received: (at 76407) by debbugs.gnu.org; 19 Feb 2025 17:21:48 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Wed Feb 19 12:21:47 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50593 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1tknla-0005vL-FG for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Feb 2025 12:21:47 -0500 Received: from mira.cbaines.net ([2a01:7e00:e000:2f8:fd4d:b5c7:13fb:3d27]:41871) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <mail@HIDDEN>) id 1tknlY-0005ux-1w for 76407 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 19 Feb 2025 12:21:45 -0500 Received: from localhost (unknown [IPv6:2a02:6b67:e390:8b00::2000]) by mira.cbaines.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E808127BBE2; Wed, 19 Feb 2025 17:21:41 +0000 (GMT) Received: from fang (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id eaedf0d3; Wed, 19 Feb 2025 17:21:41 +0000 (UTC) From: Christopher Baines <mail@HIDDEN> To: 76407 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: [bug#76407] [GCD] A better name for the default branch In-Reply-To: <79bad06a6410932dd6c7785256fd589cfaff40f6.camel@HIDDEN> (Liliana Marie Prikler's message of "Tue, 18 Feb 2025 23:14:29 +0100") References: <b900cd17b88123af3ae95f4e7d572e540f86e879.camel@HIDDEN> <79bad06a6410932dd6c7785256fd589cfaff40f6.camel@HIDDEN> Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2025 17:21:39 +0000 Message-ID: <87wmdlhmu4.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76407 Cc: Liliana Marie Prikler <liliana.prikler@HIDDEN> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Liliana Marie Prikler <liliana.prikler@HIDDEN> writes: > +## Manual Updates > + > +Sections 19 (Security Updates) and 22 (Contributing) of the Guix manual > +would need to be reworded to reflect the new default branch. Other > +sections mentioning =E2=80=9Cmaster=E2=80=9D branches may be reworded at= any time > +regardless of this GCD. Some mentions of the word =E2=80=9Cmaster=E2=80= =9D are tied to > +particular services and thus subject to rewording only once upstream > +adopts a different terminology. > + > +## Repository Update Path > + > +For a complete list of repositories associated with the Guix project, > +see GCD 002 =E2=80=98Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Code= berg=E2=80=99. > +Most repositories can rename their default branch with no issue > +(see also Cost of Reverting below). > + > +For Guix itself, we would decide on a **flag day** 14 days after > +acceptance of this GCD at the earliest, and 30 days at the latest. > +On that day, the main development branch would become "main". > +A commit would reflect that by updating: > + > + 1. the `branch` field in `.guix-channel`; > + 2. the `branch` field of `%default-guix-channel` in `(guix channels)`; > + 3. any other reference to the "master" branch of the Guix repository > + that may appear in the repository (in particular the Manual Updates > + above). > + > +Following this commit, an entry in `etc/news.scm` would explain the > +migration. The `master` branch would then point at the commit of said > +news entry, and would need to be updated only after said news are > +translated into another language. The `master` branch may keep following > +the `main` branch for a grace period of 30 days anyways. > + > +Even after the `master` branch no longer syncs up to main, it may be > +important to still have it pointing at some commit. Old installation > +media, handcrafted `channels.scm`, external documentation and scripts > +may all still be referring to the `master` branch even long after the > +rename (see also Cost of Reverting below). To ensure that these do > +not fail immediately, the old branch shall not be deleted until > + > +1. at least one year has passed since this GCD has been accepted, AND > +2. enough Guix releases have been made in the meantime, meaning > + a. at least one major release, OR > + b. at least three minor releases. Thanks for writing this GCD up, I have other comments and thoughts, and while I'm not against changing the branch name in principle my main objection is this, I'm not sure we're technically ready (or at least in a good state) to change the branch name for the default Guix channel. > + 1. the `branch` field in `.guix-channel`; This doesn't exist as far as I'm aware? That record does have a url field, which is important as it means that Guix can highlight when there is a mismatch between the URL being used and the contents of the channel. I think it's worth considering what a similar mechanism might look like for branch names. Maybe Guix could have a notion of whether it's using the "primary" branch for a channel (if you pull or time-machine to a specific --branch, this is ignored), and that record could contain the name of the primary branch, and then Guix could highlight when the two differ. That mechanism would allow for clearer messaging to users, since they could see it again and again, rather than a news entry which would usually only be shown once. > (define-record-type* <channel> channel make-channel > channel? > (name channel-name) > (url channel-url) > (branch channel-branch (default "master")) > (commit channel-commit (default #f)) > (introduction channel-introduction (default #f)) > (location channel-location > (default (current-source-location)) (innate))) Is changing or removing the channel-branch default in the scope of this GCD? I'm in two minds about this. It's just the default, so it's trivial to change it for the default channel. But ignoring it doesn't seem consistent with the rest of the proposal. Additionally, if the guix channel changes, then this might encourage people managing other channels to make similar changes, and I think there might be different and potentially more serious technical issues with managing that change. I think it would be sensible to ensure there's a good path for channels in general to change branch naming before making the switch for the Guix channel. > +Following this commit, an entry in `etc/news.scm` would explain the > +migration. The `master` branch would then point at the commit of said > +news entry, and would need to be updated only after said news are > +translated into another language. In this scenario, assuming you're suggesting only pushing the news entry related commits to "master", I think the branches diverging would be problematic. Assuming you're using the default channel configuration, if you pull to one of these commits on "master", which isn't on the new master branch, then I think the next time you go to pull, you'd hit the downgrade protections (or at least you should do), since this is exactly the kind of downgrade attack that it's trying to prevent against. You'd be pulling a commit which isn't a descendant of the commit you're currently on. ... I also haven't even started to think about what implications this would have for the services I'm involved with maintaining. The data service instances and the bordeaux build coordinator all have current and historic references to the "master" branch. In particular, the data service goes beyond branches being pointers to commits and records the state of branches over time. It isn't immediately obvious to me how the data service could be adapted to handle branches changing name to both capture that a branch may have never actually pointed at a commit, but that commit is in the history of the branch in the Git sense. I think with the current behaviour, we'd have the history of the "master" branch (unless that's deleted), and then separately the history for the new master (not "master") branch, but that would start when that branch was cteated, and the two histories would be separate from the view of the data service, and this representation seems rather lacking. --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQKlBAEBCgCPFiEEPonu50WOcg2XVOCyXiijOwuE9XcFAme2EyNfFIAAAAAALgAo aXNzdWVyLWZwckBub3RhdGlvbnMub3BlbnBncC5maWZ0aGhvcnNlbWFuLm5ldDNF ODlFRUU3NDU4RTcyMEQ5NzU0RTBCMjVFMjhBMzNCMEI4NEY1NzcRHG1haWxAY2Jh aW5lcy5uZXQACgkQXiijOwuE9XeeyQ/+M8Yj3zAXG3uAmOD3aC0nwPXWi3bVZXTD Sa1bHj6uXil1RpHKndDiMLFjxzb6pjmeJzTkDfKaXdFRlRtbxOYtFNF7hBT+ocCH TyInCDFmFlkX8vQa3kJIAzBqWwAYERQccQBvOA7J85u6/k69DClu8TKiilimaxfY hd0Xqv2tpv+LK755OSX17vZ7PY9kwGtCZGyyyzwfQ4XXuZpb0daCgg1fZ9CbKz7L bsokjYTGLp1r+3kH0OHspEpRJdfEhFXAkUlnPrQEcaUlJYNQzI9/zXX7DpV9hOd1 uT5Pzkv27qOIU3J2xxBK4e9uaCfqg6rMPGmE10kIf3i41HftydnDH6yx+oywVUzt lVVUu0tBYsgO7MkRQONnwyfwEp925EJIZ3pYQWuibo6B68wWPD7qASBuHPLDt/U6 C4hDvwNTgRFXm3mpSGm4bTVF/91QXcpyYX8pR2Z3u8Pm8kDYVdZielHrlSzIxl3o 0SfEoWSlcQtvvmE0VxepLe9GSC1a1BjcmXtV6FDkZo5Cizv7w08O86D7CGKSQ3vO IRRAOfnsH8Ax/gRdhyq1ivgrM7NhVfj1z/c6yxLl/ufpUTigRDp7sBeFusjzCfjN vqGjlAeZUPk3nWDaQDnbWlloxrwNn7yNI/6ERxhW1Bf3Wec78KjfRglLjmAuEQie CHYZtBNH/X0= =RZOY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--
guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76407; Package guix-patches.
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[85.127.114.32]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ffacd0b85a97d-38f258b4491sm15813347f8f.7.2025.02.18.14.23.22 for <76407 <at> debbugs.gnu.org> (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 18 Feb 2025 14:23:23 -0800 (PST) From: Liliana Marie Prikler <liliana.prikler@HIDDEN> X-Debbugs-CC: info-guix@HIDDEN Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2025 23:14:29 +0100 Subject: [GCD] A better name for the default branch to: 76407 <at> debbugs.gnu.org Message-ID: <79bad06a6410932dd6c7785256fd589cfaff40f6.camel@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 76407 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) Hi Guix, this patch introduces GCD 003 “A better name for the default branch”. I've taken the comments on guix-devel into account (most of them anyway) and updated the document accordingly. Note that references to GCD 002 are made. That GCD was drafted earlier, but may or may not already be submitted by the time you read this. Do be patient :) Cheers --- 003-better-default-branch-name.md | 187 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 1 file changed, 187 insertions(+) create mode 100644 003-better-default-branch-name.md diff --git a/003-better-default-branch-name.md b/003-better-default-branch-name.md new file mode 100644 index 0000000..95952a5 --- /dev/null +++ b/003-better-default-branch-name.md @@ -0,0 +1,187 @@ +title: A better name for the default branch +id: 003 +status: submitted +discussion: https://issues.guix.gnu.org/76407 +authors: Liliana Marie Prikler +sponsors: Simon Tournier, Ian Eure, Vagrant Cascadian, Ludovic Courtès +date: 2025-02-18 +SPDX-License-Identifier: CC-BY-SA-4.0 OR GFDL-1.3-no-invariants-only +--- + +# Summary + +Currently, much of Guix's development takes place on the “master” +branch. This name is neither particularly meaningful nor inclusive; +choosing to use it may inadvertently alienate potential contributors. +To mitigate these effects, we should more clearly communicate, what the +default branch is all about. + +# Motivation + +It is well known, that Git works with whatever branch name one chooses. +However, for historical reasons, the default/initial/main branch for +development used to be “master” — particularly in 2012, when the first +commit to Guix was made. + +Recent versions of Git support arbitrary initial branches and the +default branch name is subject to change upstream, at least in part +because the current default — “master” — may be perceived as harmful. +While the intended meaning is something close to “an original, from +which copies are made”, there are several other meanings of the word +that spring to mind more easily, some of have a racist or sexist +connotation. + +One goal of the Guix community is to foster a healthy community around +the software we use. Using clear language that does not pertain to +harmful stereotypes is a key towards achieving this goal. Thus, as a +proactive step, we should rename the default branch. + +# Detailed Design + +This section explains the chosen solution among the available options, +the scope of the proposed migration, and a migration path. + +## Scope of this document + +This document discusses only to change the name of the default branch, +not to change the branching strategy. Such ideas, e.g. to have a +“stable” branch containing only bug-fixes and well-tested features +and an “unstable” or “experimental” branch would need to be discussed +in a separate document. + +## Choice of branch name + +In this section, we discuss potential branch names that have been +considered. The goal is to find a name that Guix contributors, as a +whole, feel comfortable with. + +While this GCD is still being reviewed, new suggestions may be added, +and benefits and drawbacks for each name discussed. Once this GCD is +accepted, these benefits and drawbacks shall be shortly summarized, +and a final decision with a short justification as the one at the end +of this section shall be the last paragraph of this section. + +- The currently used “master” has more than ten different meanings, + some of them pertaining to slavery, others to dominance, and yet + others merely to skill and expertise. It is understandable that some + contributors would feel uncomfortable with this name, given that not + all uses are equally frequent. + +- The currently proposed alternative “main” has several meanings + relating to “importance”, the most obvious being “most important”. + +- Other alternatives would be “trunk” as a visual metaphor from + which “branches” spawn, and “base” with the same meaning. + +- “guix” being the name of the project also serves as an option, + albeit one that is not clearly defined (are the other branches + not guix as well?) + +- Similar to “guix”, “development” merely signifies that some sort + of development happens on the branch; a fact that should hold for + most, if not all branches. + +We choose “main” simply because it is currently the explicit initial +branch for a git checkout as per `git-fetch` in `(guix build git)`. +Another name could be chosen by any means that support achieving a +consensus, e.g. comments on this GCD or a popular vote. + +## Manual Updates + +Sections 19 (Security Updates) and 22 (Contributing) of the Guix manual +would need to be reworded to reflect the new default branch. Other +sections mentioning “master” branches may be reworded at any time +regardless of this GCD. Some mentions of the word “master” are tied to +particular services and thus subject to rewording only once upstream +adopts a different terminology. + +## Repository Update Path + +For a complete list of repositories associated with the Guix project, +see GCD 002 ‘Migrating repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg’. +Most repositories can rename their default branch with no issue +(see also Cost of Reverting below). + +For Guix itself, we would decide on a **flag day** 14 days after +acceptance of this GCD at the earliest, and 30 days at the latest. +On that day, the main development branch would become "main". +A commit would reflect that by updating: + + 1. the `branch` field in `.guix-channel`; + 2. the `branch` field of `%default-guix-channel` in `(guix channels)`; + 3. any other reference to the "master" branch of the Guix repository + that may appear in the repository (in particular the Manual Updates + above). + +Following this commit, an entry in `etc/news.scm` would explain the +migration. The `master` branch would then point at the commit of said +news entry, and would need to be updated only after said news are +translated into another language. The `master` branch may keep following +the `main` branch for a grace period of 30 days anyways. + +Even after the `master` branch no longer syncs up to main, it may be +important to still have it pointing at some commit. Old installation +media, handcrafted `channels.scm`, external documentation and scripts +may all still be referring to the `master` branch even long after the +rename (see also Cost of Reverting below). To ensure that these do +not fail immediately, the old branch shall not be deleted until + +1. at least one year has passed since this GCD has been accepted, AND +2. enough Guix releases have been made in the meantime, meaning + a. at least one major release, OR + b. at least three minor releases. + +## Continuous Integration + +The jobset for the `master` branch would be removed and a jobset for the +`main` branch with the highest priority and the same set of architectures +would be created. + +## Relation to other Guix Consensus Documents + +Since this change has the potential to affect users and contributors in +ways that will disrupt their workflow for some amount of time as they +reconfigure their local checkouts to point at the new branch, it should +best be adopted as the same time as other, similar changes. In particular, +an adoption at the same time as GCD 002 ‘Migrating repositories, issues, +and patches to Codeberg’ is desirable. + +The repository update path in this GCD is only valid as long as it is +simultaneously upheld by other, similar GCDs. Again GCD 002 ‘Migrating +repositories, issues, and patches to Codeberg’ needs to be considered as +a possibly simultaneous change. For the sake of clarity, the promises +made in the repository update path w.r.t. the availability of the old +branch shall not exceed those of any other accepted GCD and instead +be updated to match. + +## Cost of Reverting + +This change mostly affects contributors, who would have to run the following +command once to pull from (and in the case of committers push to) the new +main branch: + + $ git branch --set-upstream-to <origin>/main + +Users of the `guix` CLI would be advised to run `guix pull` again to fetch +the latest commit from the main branch. Users of old installation media +(e.g. disk images for version 1.4.0) would continue to use the "master" branch +and the default channel URL of said installation media until they run +`guix pull`. A new release may mitigate this annoyance somewhat. + +The main branch may be renamed to any other name (including "master") by +repeating the steps laid out in the Repository Update Path and +Continuous Integration above, using <name> instead of "main". + +# Drawbacks and Open Issues + +There is an ongoing political debate as to whether the name “master”, +standing alone, should be considered harmful. Similar debates may +well surround other names given enough time and particular +circumstances. More generally, as language continues to evolve, +meanings that appear obvious today may no longer remain so in the +future. + +It is unclear, what effect, if any, the name of the default branch has +to contributor satisfaction. The choice of a name may well appear +similar to choosing the colour of a bikeshed. What constitutes a +meaningful branch name will inevitably be a matter of opinion. -- 2.48.1
info-guix@HIDDEN, guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76407; Package guix-patches.
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[85.127.114.32]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ffacd0b85a97d-38f259f7998sm15854314f8f.82.2025.02.18.14.06.25 for <guix-patches@HIDDEN> (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 18 Feb 2025 14:06:26 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <b900cd17b88123af3ae95f4e7d572e540f86e879.camel@HIDDEN> Subject: [GCD] A better name for the default branch From: Liliana Marie Prikler <liliana.prikler@HIDDEN> To: guix-patches@HIDDEN Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2025 23:07:07 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable User-Agent: Evolution 3.48.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::341; envelope-from=liliana.prikler@HIDDEN; helo=mail-wm1-x341.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) Girls do their best now and are preparing. Please watch warmly until it is ready.
Liliana Marie Prikler <liliana.prikler@HIDDEN>:guix-patches@HIDDEN.
Full text available.guix-patches@HIDDEN:bug#76407; Package guix-patches.
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