GNU logs - #7782, boring messages


Message sent to owner <at> debbugs.gnu.org, bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:


X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
Subject: bug#7782: 24.0.50; 24.0.50: set-scroll-bar-mode missing under non-GUI environments
Resent-From: Tim Cross <theophilusx@HIDDEN>
Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Resent-To: owner <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
Resent-Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2011 12:04:01 +0000
Resent-Message-ID: <handler.7782.B.129414260931380 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
X-GNU-PR-Message: report 7782
X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs
X-GNU-PR-Keywords: 
To: 7782 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Debbugs-Original-To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
Received: via spool by submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B.129414260931380
          (code B ref -1); Tue, 04 Jan 2011 12:04:01 +0000
Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 4 Jan 2011 12:03:29 +0000
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1Pa5bs-0008A4-RQ
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 04 Jan 2011 07:03:29 -0500
Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92])
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69)
	(envelope-from <theophilusx@HIDDEN>) id 1Pa21s-00034W-OJ
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 04 Jan 2011 03:14:05 -0500
Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71)
	(envelope-from <theophilusx@HIDDEN>) id 1Pa28m-0001qi-DV
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 04 Jan 2011 03:21:13 -0500
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on eggs.gnu.org
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM,
	RFC_ABUSE_POST,
	T_TO_NO_BRKTS_FREEMAIL autolearn=unavailable version=3.3.1
Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]:53715)
	by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71)
	(envelope-from <theophilusx@HIDDEN>) id 1Pa28m-0001qd-B5
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 04 Jan 2011 03:21:12 -0500
Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=43732 helo=eggs.gnu.org)
	by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Pa28k-0006Oe-QI
	for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Tue, 04 Jan 2011 03:21:11 -0500
Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71)
	(envelope-from <theophilusx@HIDDEN>) id 1Pa28j-0001q3-L2
	for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Tue, 04 Jan 2011 03:21:10 -0500
Received: from ipmail05.adl6.internode.on.net ([150.101.137.143]:1206)
	by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71)
	(envelope-from <theophilusx@HIDDEN>) id 1Pa28j-0001pj-1o
	for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Tue, 04 Jan 2011 03:21:09 -0500
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AtEGAOJkIk15LGD5/2dsb2JhbACWFwEBjhx0rUqHGy6GU4VKBIUhhWM
Received: from ppp121-44-96-249.lns20.syd6.internode.on.net (HELO
	puma.rapttech.com.au) ([121.44.96.249])
	by ipmail05.adl6.internode.on.net with ESMTP; 04 Jan 2011 18:51:05 +1030
From: Tim Cross <theophilusx@HIDDEN>
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2011 19:21:03 +1100
Message-ID: <87aajhgjv4.fsf@HIDDEN>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not
	recognized.
X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2)
X-Spam-Score: -4.6 (----)
X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 04 Jan 2011 07:03:28 -0500
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>,
	<mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/pipermail/debbugs-submit>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>,
	<mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Spam-Score: -4.7 (----)


According to the documentation for scroll-bar-mode, the way to
set/change scroll-bar settings from within elisp code is to use the
set-scroll-bar-mode function. However, this function is only defined
when run under graphic capable environments, such as X, but not in other
environments such as the Linux console. 

This means that if you don't want your elisp or .emacs to raise an
error, you also need to wrap calls to this function inside something
like (when display-graphic-p ...). This is not required for other
display related functions that depend on an environment requiring
support for graphics i.e. tool-bar-mode. 

For consistency and to help reduce environment related bugs, I would
like to request a feature enhancement whereby set-scroll-bar-mode is
defined in all environmennts, even if it is just a stub / do nothing
operation in environments that do not support scroll bars. 

thanks,

Tim

In GNU Emacs 24.0.50.1 (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.22.0)
 of 2011-01-04 on puma
Windowing system distributor `The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.10900000
configured using `configure  '--prefix=/usr/local''





Message sent:


Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Mailer: MIME-tools 5.427 (Entity 5.427)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
From: help-debbugs@HIDDEN (GNU bug Tracking System)
To: Tim Cross <theophilusx@HIDDEN>
Subject: bug#7782: Acknowledgement (24.0.50; 24.0.50: set-scroll-bar-mode
 missing under non-GUI environments)
Message-ID: <handler.7782.B.129414260931380.ack <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
References: <87aajhgjv4.fsf@HIDDEN>
X-Gnu-PR-Message: ack 7782
X-Gnu-PR-Package: emacs
Reply-To: 7782 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2011 12:04:02 +0000

Thank you for filing a new bug report with GNU.

This is an automatically generated reply to let you know your message
has been received.

Your message is being forwarded to the package maintainers and other
interested parties for their attention; they will reply in due course.

Your message has been sent to the package maintainer(s):
 bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN

If you wish to submit further information on this problem, please
send it to 7782 <at> debbugs.gnu.org.

Please do not send mail to help-debbugs@HIDDEN unless you wish
to report a problem with the Bug-tracking system.

--=20
7782: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D7782
GNU Bug Tracking System
Contact help-debbugs@HIDDEN with problems


Message sent to owner <at> debbugs.gnu.org, bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:


X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
Subject: bug#7782: 24.0.50; 24.0.50: set-scroll-bar-mode missing under non-GUI environments
Resent-From: Glenn Morris <rgm@HIDDEN>
Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Resent-To: owner <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 22:52:01 +0000
Resent-Message-ID: <handler.7782.B7782.129469988825947 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 7782
X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs
X-GNU-PR-Keywords: 
To: Tim Cross <theophilusx@HIDDEN>
Cc: 7782 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Received: via spool by 7782-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B7782.129469988825947
          (code B ref 7782); Mon, 10 Jan 2011 22:52:01 +0000
Received: (at 7782) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Jan 2011 22:51:28 +0000
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1PcQaF-0006kS-OB
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2011 17:51:28 -0500
Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10])
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69)
	(envelope-from <rgm@HIDDEN>) id 1PcQaE-0006kI-IC
	for 7782 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2011 17:51:27 -0500
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55943)
	by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69)
	(envelope-from <rgm@HIDDEN>)
	id 1PcQhM-0005az-Tr; Mon, 10 Jan 2011 17:58:49 -0500
References: <87aajhgjv4.fsf@HIDDEN>
From: Glenn Morris <rgm@HIDDEN>
X-Spook: PLO warfare STARLAN Exon Shell infowar UOP Saudi Arabia
X-Ran: D1%MW+!6[u9(UyRe~"p]SdIlV55:`ra*PeZj-bL[3r,2@!^d5Pm|lP0<zi;s!^}mm"ZV__
X-Hue: blue
X-Attribution: GM
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 17:58:48 -0500
In-Reply-To: <87aajhgjv4.fsf@HIDDEN> (Tim Cross's message of
	"Tue\, 04 Jan 2011 19\:21\:03 +1100")
Message-ID: <frei8kcqmv.fsf@HIDDEN>
User-Agent: Gnus (www.gnus.org), GNU Emacs (www.gnu.org/software/emacs/)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-Spam-Score: -4.7 (----)
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>,
	<mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/pipermail/debbugs-submit>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>,
	<mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Spam-Score: -4.7 (----)

Tim Cross wrote:

> According to the documentation for scroll-bar-mode, the way to
> set/change scroll-bar settings from within elisp code is to use the
> set-scroll-bar-mode function. However, this function is only defined
> when run under graphic capable environments, such as X, but not in other
> environments such as the Linux console. 
>
> This means that if you don't want your elisp or .emacs to raise an
> error, you also need to wrap calls to this function inside something
> like (when display-graphic-p ...). This is not required for other
> display related functions that depend on an environment requiring
> support for graphics i.e. tool-bar-mode. 

It's not clear to me whether you mean --without-x builds or --with-x
builds started with -nw (or both), but in either case:

In a with-x build:
emacs -Q -nw

C-h f tool-bar-mode
 tool-bar-mode is an interactive compiled Lisp function in `tool-bar.el'.

C-h f set-scroll-bar-mode
 set-scroll-bar-mode is a compiled Lisp function in `scroll-bar.el'.

(tool-bar-mode 1)             ; no error

(set-scroll-bar-mode 'left)   ; no error


In a without-x build, neither tool-bar-mode nor set-scroll-bar-mode is
defined.

Thus, I see no inconsistency here and don't understand your request.




Message sent to owner <at> debbugs.gnu.org, bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:


X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
Subject: bug#7782: 24.0.50; 24.0.50: set-scroll-bar-mode missing under non-GUI environments
Resent-From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Resent-To: owner <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
Resent-Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 23:39:01 +0000
Resent-Message-ID: <handler.7782.B7782.129470268929984 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 7782
X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs
X-GNU-PR-Keywords: 
To: Glenn Morris <rgm@HIDDEN>
Cc: Tim Cross <theophilusx@HIDDEN>, 7782 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Received: via spool by 7782-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B7782.129470268929984
          (code B ref 7782); Mon, 10 Jan 2011 23:39:01 +0000
Received: (at 7782) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Jan 2011 23:38:09 +0000
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1PcRJR-0007nZ-9J
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2011 18:38:09 -0500
Received: from ironport2-out.teksavvy.com ([206.248.154.183]
	helo=ironport2-out.pppoe.ca)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69)
	(envelope-from <monnier@HIDDEN>) id 1PcRJP-0007nN-En
	for 7782 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Jan 2011 18:38:08 -0500
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AvsEAAcpK01FxIbi/2dsb2JhbACkSnS7T4VMBIRnjiQ
X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.60,303,1291611600"; d="scan'208";a="87571032"
Received: from 69-196-134-226.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO ceviche.home)
	([69.196.134.226])
	by ironport2-out.pppoe.ca with ESMTP/TLS/ADH-AES256-SHA;
	10 Jan 2011 18:45:33 -0500
Received: by ceviche.home (Postfix, from userid 20848)
	id D6FC7660DC; Mon, 10 Jan 2011 18:45:32 -0500 (EST)
From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
Message-ID: <jwv4o9gjpjo.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN>
References: <87aajhgjv4.fsf@HIDDEN>
	<frei8kcqmv.fsf@HIDDEN>
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2011 18:45:32 -0500
In-Reply-To: <frei8kcqmv.fsf@HIDDEN> (Glenn Morris's message of
	"Mon, 10 Jan 2011 17:58:48 -0500")
User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.0.50 (gnu/linux)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--)
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>,
	<mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/pipermail/debbugs-submit>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>,
	<mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Spam-Score: -2.1 (--)

> In a without-x build, neither tool-bar-mode nor set-scroll-bar-mode is
> defined.

That's the problem.  I know Emacs has many such things already, but
I think these are all bugs: I think we should adopt a convention that
functions/variables should either be specific to one particular kind of
display, or be display-independent.  Since (set-)scroll-bar-mode is not
specific to one particular kind of display (it is shared by w32, X11,
and ns), it should exist independently from any particular display.

Similarly, if a function doesn't signal an error when run in -nw, it
should generally work just as well in --without-x.


        Stefan




Message sent to owner <at> debbugs.gnu.org, bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:


X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
Subject: bug#7782: 24.0.50;	24.0.50: set-scroll-bar-mode missing under non-GUI environments
Resent-From: David De La Harpe Golden <david@HIDDEN>
Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Resent-To: owner <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 09:38:02 +0000
Resent-Message-ID: <handler.7782.B7782.129491147928843 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 7782
X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs
X-GNU-PR-Keywords: 
To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
Cc: Glenn Morris <rgm@HIDDEN>, Tim Cross <theophilusx@HIDDEN>, 7782 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Received: via spool by 7782-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B7782.129491147928843
          (code B ref 7782); Thu, 13 Jan 2011 09:38:02 +0000
Received: (at 7782) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Jan 2011 09:37:59 +0000
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1PdJd0-0007V9-Lb
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 13 Jan 2011 04:37:58 -0500
Received: from harpegolden.net ([65.99.215.13])
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69)
	(envelope-from <david@HIDDEN>) id 1PdJcy-0007Uy-Ph
	for 7782 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 13 Jan 2011 04:37:57 -0500
Received: from [87.198.55.89] (87-198-55-89.ptr.magnet.ie [87.198.55.89])
	(using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits))
	(Client CN "David De La Harpe Golden",
	Issuer "David De La Harpe Golden Personal CA rev 3" (verified OK))
	by harpegolden.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6D0AE6841D;
	Thu, 13 Jan 2011 09:45:28 +0000 (GMT)
Message-ID: <4D2EC9B6.4090002@HIDDEN>
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 09:45:26 +0000
From: David De La Harpe Golden <david@HIDDEN>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US;
	rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101226 Icedove/3.0.11
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <87aajhgjv4.fsf@HIDDEN>	<frei8kcqmv.fsf@HIDDEN>
	<jwv4o9gjpjo.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <jwv4o9gjpjo.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--)
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>,
	<mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/pipermail/debbugs-submit>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>,
	<mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Spam-Score: -2.7 (--)

On 10/01/11 23:45, Stefan Monnier wrote:

> Since (set-)scroll-bar-mode is not
> specific to one particular kind of display (it is shared by w32, X11,
> and ns), it should exist independently from any particular display.

Plus there's no real reason in principle we couldn't draw text-mode 
scroll bars on text terminals too, like old msdos borland ides etc.








Message sent to owner <at> debbugs.gnu.org, bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:


X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
Subject: bug#7782: 24.0.50; 24.0.50: set-scroll-bar-mode missing under non-GUI environments
Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Resent-To: owner <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 12:13:02 +0000
Resent-Message-ID: <handler.7782.B7782.129492078115292 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 7782
X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs
X-GNU-PR-Keywords: 
To: David De La Harpe Golden <david@HIDDEN>
Cc: theophilusx@HIDDEN, monnier@HIDDEN, 7782 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Received: via spool by 7782-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B7782.129492078115292
          (code B ref 7782); Thu, 13 Jan 2011 12:13:02 +0000
Received: (at 7782) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Jan 2011 12:13:01 +0000
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1PdM33-0003yY-0f
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 13 Jan 2011 07:13:01 -0500
Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10])
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69)
	(envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1PdM31-0003yN-B4
	for 7782 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 13 Jan 2011 07:12:59 -0500
Received: from eliz by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.69)
	(envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>)
	id 1PdMAF-0001Sq-TG; Thu, 13 Jan 2011 07:20:27 -0500
From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
In-reply-to: <4D2EC9B6.4090002@HIDDEN> (message from David De La
	Harpe Golden on Thu, 13 Jan 2011 09:45:26 +0000)
References: <87aajhgjv4.fsf@HIDDEN>	<frei8kcqmv.fsf@HIDDEN>
	<jwv4o9gjpjo.fsf-monnier+emacs@HIDDEN>
	<4D2EC9B6.4090002@HIDDEN>
Message-Id: <E1PdMAF-0001Sq-TG@HIDDEN>
Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 07:20:27 -0500
X-Spam-Score: -6.5 (------)
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>,
	<mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/pipermail/debbugs-submit>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>,
	<mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Spam-Score: -6.5 (------)

> Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 09:45:26 +0000
> From: David De La Harpe Golden <david@HIDDEN>
> Cc: Tim Cross <theophilusx@HIDDEN>, 7782 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> On 10/01/11 23:45, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> 
> > Since (set-)scroll-bar-mode is not
> > specific to one particular kind of display (it is shared by w32, X11,
> > and ns), it should exist independently from any particular display.
> 
> Plus there's no real reason in principle we couldn't draw text-mode 
> scroll bars on text terminals too, like old msdos borland ides etc.

There's one valid reason, as usual: someone should write the code.
Volunteers are welcome (no, I don't).




Message sent to owner <at> debbugs.gnu.org, bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:


X-Loop: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
Subject: bug#7782: 24.0.50; 24.0.50: set-scroll-bar-mode missing under non-GUI environments
Resent-From: Tim Cross <theophilusx@HIDDEN>
Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Resent-To: owner <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2011 23:30:03 +0000
Resent-Message-ID: <handler.7782.B7782.129513420029303 <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@HIDDEN
X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 7782
X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs
X-GNU-PR-Keywords: 
To: Glenn Morris <rgm@HIDDEN>
Received: via spool by 7782-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org id=B7782.129513420029303
          (code B ref 7782); Sat, 15 Jan 2011 23:30:03 +0000
Received: (at 7782) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Jan 2011 23:30:00 +0000
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org)
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69)
	(envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>)
	id 1PeFZH-0007ca-7C
	for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 15 Jan 2011 18:29:59 -0500
Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10])
	by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69)
	(envelope-from <theophilusx@HIDDEN>) id 1PeFZE-0007cN-UB
	for 7782 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 15 Jan 2011 18:29:57 -0500
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35776)
	by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69)
	(envelope-from <theophilusx@HIDDEN>) id 1PeFga-0000Fi-Iq
	for 7782 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 15 Jan 2011 18:37:32 -0500
Resent-Message-ID: <19762.12220.298428.361256@HIDDEN>
Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2011 18:37:32 -0500
Resent-From: Glenn Morris <rgm@HIDDEN>
Resent-To: 7782 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on eggs.gnu.org
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FREEMAIL_FROM,
	HTML_MESSAGE, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,
	T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=ham version=3.3.1
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma;
	h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date
	:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type;
	bh=C0bqZ2bDIpFiqKiS/7/CJib1urH6W44AQ0wB5f61nI4=;
	b=OODRkfltqK+ZZrGkzmzxLpU23XluouBZ+iFSPBVM1xK0iPJ0ZQGD0u+36oJBMP97vK
	7D5beWnDSEPTSgrgT8+IOYng5NwPx8vuQTo+Te4H+8k8FVckYQr11Gv1cpNdmiV9EeQ3
	JBKUVxEStDu+xcb+jvF5XcXGyig4uVh/4xsn0=
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma;
	h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to
	:content-type;
	b=rNiBbPwDsXZfSFZgr/9KptLpUmoSqe+sknVQ83kH/9LjQvzaJMpXd8xLaF9Ah1FbPA
	Uh/GXRKBfBZvL3GW+ReIqYaMdU+J//7PD6u2hAaYzZxaMPr+8TS71C9gp7g9bvjgVQIL
	dFwibYPi85HkI7nAH5jg+bkPrAv1X+PiWoKmM=
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <frei8kcqmv.fsf@HIDDEN>
References: <87aajhgjv4.fsf@HIDDEN>
	<frei8kcqmv.fsf@HIDDEN>
Message-ID: <AANLkTim4PHkT_p4a+8sezVUrtJxXiCbMCxSdUadVnJnj@HIDDEN>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=90e6ba18199878a68f0499eaf3fa
X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2)
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2011 10:31:32 +1100
From: Tim Cross <theophilusx@HIDDEN>
X-Bogosity: no, spamicity=0.016172, v1.1.5
X-Spam-Score: -5.9 (-----)
X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11
Precedence: list
List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>,
	<mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/pipermail/debbugs-submit>
List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>,
	<mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe>
Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Resent-Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2011 18:29:59 -0500
X-Spam-Score: -5.9 (-----)

--90e6ba18199878a68f0499eaf3fa
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 9:58 AM, Glenn Morris <rgm@HIDDEN> wrote:

> Tim Cross wrote:
>
> > According to the documentation for scroll-bar-mode, the way to
> > set/change scroll-bar settings from within elisp code is to use the
> > set-scroll-bar-mode function. However, this function is only defined
> > when run under graphic capable environments, such as X, but not in other
> > environments such as the Linux console.
> >
> > This means that if you don't want your elisp or .emacs to raise an
> > error, you also need to wrap calls to this function inside something
> > like (when display-graphic-p ...). This is not required for other
> > display related functions that depend on an environment requiring
> > support for graphics i.e. tool-bar-mode.
>
> It's not clear to me whether you mean --without-x builds or --with-x
> builds started with -nw (or both), but in either case:
>
> In a with-x build:
> emacs -Q -nw
>
> C-h f tool-bar-mode
>  tool-bar-mode is an interactive compiled Lisp function in `tool-bar.el'.
>
> C-h f set-scroll-bar-mode
>  set-scroll-bar-mode is a compiled Lisp function in `scroll-bar.el'.
>
> (tool-bar-mode 1)             ; no error
>
> (set-scroll-bar-mode 'left)   ; no error
>
>
> In a without-x build, neither tool-bar-mode nor set-scroll-bar-mode is
> defined.
>
> Thus, I see no inconsistency here and don't understand your request.
>

OK, I just tried to re-create the error I was getting and now it isn't
occurring. I have updated emacs since logging the report, but cannot see
anything obvious in the change log that would explain the difference, so not
sure. For the record, here is what I did originally and which does not
repeat the problem now.

1. Built emacs under X with the GTK libs (emacs from bzr 24.0.50).
2. Login under the Linux console and run emacs --debug-init

Originally, I got a backtrace with a void function error for
set-scroll-bar-mode. Fixed this by putting the call inside a when block
which tested for a window-syste of X. However, noticed that this was not an
issue with tool-bar-mode. I could place a direct top-level call to
tool-bar-mode in my .emacs without needing to wrap it in a test. This was
the original inconsistency I observed. i.e. tool-bar-mode was defined but
set-scroll-bar-mode was not when running an emacs built with X under a Linux
console (not an xterm or X console).

C-h f tool-bar-mode returns docs on that function as would be expected.
C-h f set-scroll-bar-mode fails saying the function is not defined.

After removing the when block from my .emacs and just having a top level
call to set-scrolll-bar-mode and restarting emacs just now, I no longer get
the error and backtrace. C-h f returns info on both functions.

I cannot see anything in the change log which would explain why it was not
working and now is, so I guess I must have screwed up somewhere. Sorry for
the noise.

The main reason for the report was I figured we should have consistency -
either *all* graphics display related functions are always defined i.e. as
tool-bar-mode appears to be or *all* of them are defined only for
environments where they maie sense, such as X, but above all, avoid
situations where some appear to be defined and some do not.
Personally, I think they should all be defined regardless of the
environment, even if in many environments, they are just function stubs that
don't actually do anything. This avoids having to remember to put such code
inside tests and to somehow know which such functions are defined in which
environments. For the envrionments I've tested, this does not appear to be
the case for tool-bar-mode and set-scroll-bar-mode, so all appears to be
fine for at least these two cases.

thanks,

Tim

--90e6ba18199878a68f0499eaf3fa
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 9:58 AM, Glenn M=
orris <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rgm@HIDDEN">rgm@HIDDEN</a>&=
gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 =
0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
Tim Cross wrote:<br>
<br>
&gt; According to the documentation for scroll-bar-mode, the way to<br>
&gt; set/change scroll-bar settings from within elisp code is to use the<br=
>
&gt; set-scroll-bar-mode function. However, this function is only defined<b=
r>
&gt; when run under graphic capable environments, such as X, but not in oth=
er<br>
&gt; environments such as the Linux console.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; This means that if you don&#39;t want your elisp or .emacs to raise an=
<br>
&gt; error, you also need to wrap calls to this function inside something<b=
r>
&gt; like (when display-graphic-p ...). This is not required for other<br>
&gt; display related functions that depend on an environment requiring<br>
&gt; support for graphics i.e. tool-bar-mode.<br>
<br>
It&#39;s not clear to me whether you mean --without-x builds or --with-x<br=
>
builds started with -nw (or both), but in either case:<br>
<br>
In a with-x build:<br>
emacs -Q -nw<br>
<br>
C-h f tool-bar-mode<br>
=A0tool-bar-mode is an interactive compiled Lisp function in `tool-bar.el&#=
39;.<br>
<br>
C-h f set-scroll-bar-mode<br>
=A0set-scroll-bar-mode is a compiled Lisp function in `scroll-bar.el&#39;.<=
br>
<br>
(tool-bar-mode 1) =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 ; no error<br>
<br>
(set-scroll-bar-mode &#39;left) =A0 ; no error<br>
<br>
<br>
In a without-x build, neither tool-bar-mode nor set-scroll-bar-mode is<br>
defined.<br>
<br>
Thus, I see no inconsistency here and don&#39;t understand your request.<br=
></blockquote><div><br></div><div>OK, I just tried to re-create the error I=
 was getting and now it isn&#39;t occurring. I have updated emacs since log=
ging the report, but cannot see anything obvious in the change log that wou=
ld explain the difference, so not sure. For the record, here is what I did =
originally and which does not repeat the problem now.=A0</div>
<div><br></div><div>1. Built emacs under X with the GTK libs (emacs from bz=
r 24.0.50).</div><div>2. Login under the Linux console and run emacs --debu=
g-init</div><div><br></div><div>Originally, I got a backtrace with a void f=
unction error for set-scroll-bar-mode. Fixed this by putting the call insid=
e a when block which tested for a window-syste of X. However, noticed that =
this was not an issue with tool-bar-mode. I could place a direct top-level =
call to tool-bar-mode in my .emacs without needing to wrap it in a test. Th=
is was the original inconsistency I observed. i.e. tool-bar-mode was define=
d but set-scroll-bar-mode was not when running an emacs built with X under =
a Linux console (not an xterm or X console).=A0</div>
<div><br></div><div>C-h f tool-bar-mode returns docs on that function as wo=
uld be expected.</div><div>C-h f set-scroll-bar-mode fails saying the funct=
ion is not defined.</div><div><br></div><div>After removing the when block =
from my .emacs and just having a top level call to set-scrolll-bar-mode and=
 restarting emacs just now, I no longer get the error and backtrace. C-h f =
returns info on both functions.=A0</div>
<div><br></div><div>I cannot see anything in the change log which would exp=
lain why it was not working and now is, so I guess I must have screwed up s=
omewhere. Sorry for the noise.=A0</div><div><br></div><div>The main reason =
for the report was I figured we should have consistency - either *all* grap=
hics display related functions are always defined i.e. as tool-bar-mode app=
ears to be or *all* of them are defined only for environments where they ma=
ie sense, such as X, but above all, avoid situations where some appear to b=
e defined and some do not.=A0</div>
<div>Personally, I think they should all be defined regardless of the envir=
onment, even if in many environments, they are just function stubs that don=
&#39;t actually do anything. This avoids having to remember to put such cod=
e inside tests and to somehow know which such functions are defined in whic=
h environments. For the envrionments I&#39;ve tested, this does not appear =
to be the case for tool-bar-mode and set-scroll-bar-mode, so all appears to=
 be fine for at least these two cases.</div>
<div><br></div><div>thanks,</div><div><br></div><div>Tim</div><div><br></di=
v><div><br></div></div>

--90e6ba18199878a68f0499eaf3fa--





Last modified: Fri, 31 Oct 2014 17:00:04 UTC

GNU bug tracking system
Copyright (C) 1999 Darren O. Benham, 1997 nCipher Corporation Ltd, 1994-97 Ian Jackson.