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Subject: bug#77924: 31.0.50; [Feature branch] Change marker implementation
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This is about the branch scratch/text-index on savannah, which is a port
of what I have in my Emacs.

The branch changes the implementation of Lisp markers.

- Markers no longer form a doubly-linked list, they are stored in a
  marker vector instead which allows O(1) insertion and deletion of
  markers. (The idea of a marker vector is from what I did in igc. In my
  Emacs, both igc and old GC use the same marker vector implementation.
  The new one is different from the one in feature/igc.)

- Lisp_Marker doesn't contain the character position directly. It is
  stored in the marker vector instead. This leads to faster,
  cache-friendly, marker position adjustments.

- Markers don't contain byte positions. Byte positions are computed when
  needed. Bytepos <-> charpos conversion are done using a text-index
  data structure. This removes the heuristics currently used in master,
  and allows removing byte positions from markers.

In summary, I'd say performance is good, to say the least, in many cases
better, and it fixes corner cases leading the abysmal performance in
current master.

Please see the comments at the start of marker-vector.c and text-index.c
for more details. Also see the thread(s) on emacs-devel with Stef an me.

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To: Gerd =?UTF-8?Q?M=C3=B6llmann?= <gerd.moellmann@HIDDEN>
Subject: bug#77924: Acknowledgement (31.0.50; [Feature branch] Change
 marker implementation)
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Subject: bug#77924: 31.0.50; [Feature branch] Change marker implementation
Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
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From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
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> Cc: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
> From: Gerd M�llmann <gerd.moellmann@HIDDEN>
> Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2025 18:05:38 +0200
> 
> This is about the branch scratch/text-index on savannah, which is a port
> of what I have in my Emacs.
> 
> The branch changes the implementation of Lisp markers.
> 
> - Markers no longer form a doubly-linked list, they are stored in a
>   marker vector instead which allows O(1) insertion and deletion of
>   markers. (The idea of a marker vector is from what I did in igc. In my
>   Emacs, both igc and old GC use the same marker vector implementation.
>   The new one is different from the one in feature/igc.)
> 
> - Lisp_Marker doesn't contain the character position directly. It is
>   stored in the marker vector instead. This leads to faster,
>   cache-friendly, marker position adjustments.
> 
> - Markers don't contain byte positions. Byte positions are computed when
>   needed. Bytepos <-> charpos conversion are done using a text-index
>   data structure. This removes the heuristics currently used in master,
>   and allows removing byte positions from markers.
> 
> In summary, I'd say performance is good, to say the least, in many cases
> better, and it fixes corner cases leading the abysmal performance in
> current master.
> 
> Please see the comments at the start of marker-vector.c and text-index.c
> for more details. Also see the thread(s) on emacs-devel with Stef an me.

Thanks.

Are there any backward-incompatible changes with this?

Do all the tests still pass as well as they did before these changes?

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Subject: bug#77924: 31.0.50; [Feature branch] Change marker implementation
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Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:

> Are there any backward-incompatible changes with this?

None I'm aware of. 

> Do all the tests still pass as well as they did before these changes?

I got a SEGV in buffer-tests right now when I checked again that went
away an a second run. So I'll have to check that.

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Gerd M=C3=B6llmann <gerd.moellmann@HIDDEN> writes:

> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:
>
>> Are there any backward-incompatible changes with this?
>
> None I'm aware of.
>
>> Do all the tests still pass as well as they did before these changes?
>
> I got a SEGV in buffer-tests right now when I checked again that went
> away an a second run. So I'll have to check that.

SUMMARY OF TEST RESULTS
-----------------------
Files examined: 530
Ran 8041 tests, 7765 results as expected, 0 unexpected, 276 skipped
[scratch/text-index] gerd@mini 2025-04-19 22:51

Now fixed.

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Gerd M=C3=B6llmann <gerd.moellmann@HIDDEN> writes:

> Gerd M=C3=B6llmann <gerd.moellmann@HIDDEN> writes:
>
>> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:
>>
>>> Are there any backward-incompatible changes with this?
>>
>> None I'm aware of.
>>
>>> Do all the tests still pass as well as they did before these changes?
>>
>> I got a SEGV in buffer-tests right now when I checked again that went
>> away an a second run. So I'll have to check that.
>
> SUMMARY OF TEST RESULTS
> -----------------------
> Files examined: 530
> Ran 8041 tests, 7765 results as expected, 0 unexpected, 276 skipped
> [scratch/text-index] gerd@mini 2025-04-19 22:51
>
> Now fixed.

Commit message:


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Gerd M=C3=B6llmann <gerd.moellmann@HIDDEN> writes:

> Gerd M=C3=B6llmann <gerd.moellmann@HIDDEN> writes:
>
>> Gerd M=C3=B6llmann <gerd.moellmann@HIDDEN> writes:
>>
>>> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:
>>>
>>>> Are there any backward-incompatible changes with this?
>>>
>>> None I'm aware of.
>>>
>>>> Do all the tests still pass as well as they did before these changes?
>>>
>>> I got a SEGV in buffer-tests right now when I checked again that went
>>> away an a second run. So I'll have to check that.
>>
>> SUMMARY OF TEST RESULTS
>> -----------------------
>> Files examined: 530
>> Ran 8041 tests, 7765 results as expected, 0 unexpected, 276 skipped
>> [scratch/text-index] gerd@mini 2025-04-19 22:51
>>
>> Now fixed.
>
> Commit message:

A warning: the branch currently contains a bug that can lead to a stack
overflow that looks like this:

(lldb) bt
* thread #1, queue =3D 'com.apple.main-thread', stop reason =3D EXC_BAD_ACC=
ESS (code=3D2, address=3D0x16b0ffff0)
    frame #0: 0x000000010451bc38 emacs`ensure_charpos_indexed(b=3D0x0000000=
107280d28, charpos=3D4415031360) at text-index.c:356
    frame #1: 0x000000010451bb10 emacs`text_index_charpos_to_bytepos(b=3D0x=
0000000107280840, charpos=3D25980) at text-index.c:621:3
    frame #2: 0x00000001046cc1d0 emacs`marker_vector_bytepos(m=3D0x00000001=
07280d28) at marker-vector.c:323:10
    frame #3: 0x0000000104529aec emacs`marker_byte_position(marker=3D(struc=
t Lisp_Marker *) $52 =3D 0x0000000107280d28) at marker.c:376:29
    frame #4: 0x000000010451cfb4 emacs`BUF_PT_BYTE(buf=3D0x0000000107280840=
) at buffer.h:909:6
!gud 909:6:/Users/gerd/emacs/github/cl-packages/src/buffer.h
  * frame #5: 0x000000010451bdec emacs`narrow_charpos_bounds(b=3D0x00000001=
07280840, prev=3D0x000000016b100178, next=3D0x000000016b100168, charpos=3D2=
5980) at text-index.c:549:42
    frame #6: 0x000000010451bb78 emacs`text_index_charpos_to_bytepos(b=3D0x=
0000000107280840, charpos=3D25980) at text-index.c:628:23
    frame #7: 0x00000001046cc1d0 emacs`marker_vector_bytepos(m=3D0x00000001=
07280d28) at marker-vector.c:323:10
    frame #8: 0x0000000104529aec emacs`marker_byte_position(marker=3D(struc=
t Lisp_Marker *) $52 =3D 0x0000000107280d28) at marker.c:376:29
    frame #9: 0x000000010451cfb4 emacs`BUF_PT_BYTE(buf=3D0x0000000107280840=
) at buffer.h:909:6
    frame #10: 0x000000010451bdec emacs`narrow_charpos_bounds(b=3D0x0000000=
107280840, prev=3D0x000000016b1002c8, next=3D0x000000016b1002b8, charpos=3D=
25980) at text-index.c:549:42
    frame #11: 0x000000010451bb78 emacs`text_index_charpos_to_bytepos(b=3D0=
x0000000107280840, charpos=3D25980) at text-index.c:628:23
    frame #12: 0x00000001046cc1d0 emacs`marker_vector_bytepos(m=3D0x0000000=
107280d28) at marker-vector.c:323:10
    frame #13: 0x0000000104529aec emacs`marker_byte_position(marker=3D(stru=
ct Lisp_Marker *) $52 =3D 0x0000000107280d28) at marker.c:376:29
    frame #14: 0x000000010451cfb4 emacs`BUF_PT_BYTE(buf=3D0x000000010728084=
0) at buffer.h:909:6

The reason for that is that functions like BUF_PT (and maybe others) are
"too smart", in the case of indirect buffers, for what I need in the
text index. I'll fix that a bit later today.

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Gerd M=C3=B6llmann <gerd.moellmann@HIDDEN> writes:

> I'll fix that a bit later today.

Done.

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[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider    ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,     ]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]

The one thing I worry about, regarding this new data structure,
is that allocation of the vectors could get troblesome
wnet there are many markers in a buffer.

I don't know whether that theoretical problem makes a big difference
in practice.  The new scheme may be better.  I just suggest looking at
this question.

-- 
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)

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Gerd M=C3=B6llmann <gerd.moellmann@HIDDEN> writes:

> This is about the branch scratch/text-index on savannah, which is a port
> of what I have in my Emacs.
>
> The branch changes the implementation of Lisp markers.
>
> - Markers no longer form a doubly-linked list, they are stored in a
>   marker vector instead which allows O(1) insertion and deletion of
>   markers. (The idea of a marker vector is from what I did in igc. In my
>   Emacs, both igc and old GC use the same marker vector implementation.
>   The new one is different from the one in feature/igc.)
>
> - Lisp_Marker doesn't contain the character position directly. It is
>   stored in the marker vector instead. This leads to faster,
>   cache-friendly, marker position adjustments.
>
> - Markers don't contain byte positions. Byte positions are computed when
>   needed. Bytepos <-> charpos conversion are done using a text-index
>   data structure. This removes the heuristics currently used in master,
>   and allows removing byte positions from markers.
>
> In summary, I'd say performance is good, to say the least, in many cases
> better, and it fixes corner cases leading the abysmal performance in
> current master.

This sounds great.  I pushed a couple of typo fixes while reading the
patches, please use them as you see fit (squash, etc.).

- Any chance you could add a comment explaining how you arrived at
  text_index_interval=3D4*1024?  If it's arbitrarily chosen, adding a
  comment to that effect might be useful.

- Maybe rename `text-index-interval` to `text-index--interval` (to
  indicate that it's internal)?

- I guess `use-text-index` can be removed?

> Please see the comments at the start of marker-vector.c and text-index.c
> for more details. Also see the thread(s) on emacs-devel with Stef an me.

For posterity, I guess that would be:

Re: Question about region caches
https://lists.gnu.org/r/emacs-devel/2025-03/msg01382.html

PS. BTW, a small procedural thing.  Instead of merging master into a
    scratch/ branch, I recommend deleting the branch, rebasing it on
    master, and then pushing it again.  This way, when we later merge it
    into master, we avoid the merge commits, and the history is kept
    clean and more easily reviewable.  Not the end of the world either
    way, but something to consider.

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Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN> writes:

> This sounds great.  I pushed a couple of typo fixes while reading the
> patches, please use them as you see fit (squash, etc.).

Thanks, I've ported that back to my side.

>
> - Any chance you could add a comment explaining how you arrived at
>   text_index_interval=4*1024?  If it's arbitrarily chosen, adding a
>   comment to that effect might be useful.

It's neither completely arbitrary nor can I really say much about it.
INTERVAL / 2 is basically the worst-case distance one has to scan
through text. Don't really know what to say more, and the above is
pretty obvious. 

>
> - Maybe rename `text-index-interval` to `text-index--interval` (to
>   indicate that it's internal)?
>
> - I guess `use-text-index` can be removed?

I've removed these Lisp variables a few days ago or so. They were only
for experimenting with the whole thing. 

>> Please see the comments at the start of marker-vector.c and text-index.c
>> for more details. Also see the thread(s) on emacs-devel with Stef an me.
>
> For posterity, I guess that would be:
>
> Re: Question about region caches
> https://lists.gnu.org/r/emacs-devel/2025-03/msg01382.html
>
> PS. BTW, a small procedural thing.  Instead of merging master into a
>     scratch/ branch, I recommend deleting the branch, rebasing it on
>     master, and then pushing it again.  This way, when we later merge it
>     into master, we avoid the merge commits, and the history is kept
>     clean and more easily reviewable.  Not the end of the world either
>     way, but something to consider.

Sorry, too much work :-).

(For reviewing a branch with merges from master I recommend to find the
latest merge commit, take the parent commit on the master side, and
range diff with that. (If you have the merge in the reflog, that
speeds up finding the latest merge, but that's only the case if you did
the merge in that repo.))

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Gerd M=C3=B6llmann <gerd.moellmann@HIDDEN> writes:

> Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN> writes:
>
>> This sounds great.  I pushed a couple of typo fixes while reading the
>> patches, please use them as you see fit (squash, etc.).
>
> Thanks, I've ported that back to my side.
>
>>
>> - Any chance you could add a comment explaining how you arrived at
>>   text_index_interval=3D4*1024?  If it's arbitrarily chosen, adding a
>>   comment to that effect might be useful.
>
> It's neither completely arbitrary nor can I really say much about it.
> INTERVAL / 2 is basically the worst-case distance one has to scan
> through text. Don't really know what to say more, and the above is
> pretty obvious.
>
>>
>> - Maybe rename `text-index-interval` to `text-index--interval` (to
>>   indicate that it's internal)?
>>
>> - I guess `use-text-index` can be removed?
>
> I've removed these Lisp variables a few days ago or so. They were only
> for experimenting with the whole thing.
>
>>> Please see the comments at the start of marker-vector.c and text-index.c
>>> for more details. Also see the thread(s) on emacs-devel with Stef an me.
>>
>> For posterity, I guess that would be:
>>
>> Re: Question about region caches
>> https://lists.gnu.org/r/emacs-devel/2025-03/msg01382.html
>>
>> PS. BTW, a small procedural thing.  Instead of merging master into a
>>     scratch/ branch, I recommend deleting the branch, rebasing it on
>>     master, and then pushing it again.  This way, when we later merge it
>>     into master, we avoid the merge commits, and the history is kept
>>     clean and more easily reviewable.  Not the end of the world either
>>     way, but something to consider.
>
> Sorry, too much work :-).
>
> (For reviewing a branch with merges from master I recommend to find the
> latest merge commit, take the parent commit on the master side, and
> range diff with that. (If you have the merge in the reflog, that
> speeds up finding the latest merge, but that's only the case if you did
> the merge in that repo.))

There was the open question left whether or not it pays off to avoid the
binary search in charpos -> bytepos conversion. Benchmarked it with

(defun elb-replace-region-contents-entry ()
  (with-temp-buffer
    (let ((step (apply #'concat (make-list 2000 "=F0=9F=99=82=C3=A9t=C3=A9=
=F0=9F=91=B6=F0=9F=8F=BF "))))
      (dotimes (_ (/ 100000 (length step)))
        (insert step)))

    (dotimes (_ 100000)
      (let* ((a (1+ (random (point-max))))
	     (b (1+ (random (point-max))))
	     (beg (min a b))
	     (end (max a b)))
	(replace-region-contents beg end "=F0=9F=99=82=C3=A9t=C3=A9=F0=9F=91=B6=F0=
=9F=8F=BF =F0=9F=99=82=C3=A9t=C3=A9=F0=9F=91=B6=F0=9F=8F=BF ")))))

2000 runs on my idle Mac mini, M1 etc.

* Without optimization Results

  | test                    | non-gc (s) | gc (s) | gcs | total (s) | err (=
s) |
  |-------------------------+------------+--------+-----+-----------+------=
---|
  | replace-region-contents |       0.93 |   0.00 |   0 |      0.93 |    0.=
33 |
  |-------------------------+------------+--------+-----+-----------+------=
---|
  | total                   |       0.93 |   0.00 |   0 |      0.93 |    0.=
33 |

* With opt. Results

  | test                    | non-gc (s) | gc (s) | gcs | total (s) | err (=
s) |
  |-------------------------+------------+--------+-----+-----------+------=
---|
  | replace-region-contents |       0.89 |   0.00 |   0 |      0.89 |    0.=
32 |
  |-------------------------+------------+--------+-----+-----------+------=
---|
  | total                   |       0.89 |   0.00 |   0 |      0.89 |    0.=
32 |

I think the large err values are because of the random and the O(ND) in
replace-region-contents. Whatever, the optimization seems to pay off, so
I'll add that to scratch/text-index on savannah later.

Tests with the change:

SUMMARY OF TEST RESULTS
-----------------------
Files examined: 530
Ran 8041 tests, 7765 results as expected, 0 unexpected, 276 skipped

I consider this feature done when that is in, and play with arm64 NEON a
bit instead. In C++ ;-).

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Gerd M=C3=B6llmann <gerd.moellmann@HIDDEN> writes:

> * Without optimization Results
>
>   | test                    | non-gc (s) | gc (s) | gcs | total (s) | err=
 (s) |
>   |-------------------------+------------+--------+-----+-----------+----=
-----|
>   | replace-region-contents |       0.93 |   0.00 |   0 |      0.93 |    =
0.33 |
>   |-------------------------+------------+--------+-----+-----------+----=
-----|
>   | total                   |       0.93 |   0.00 |   0 |      0.93 |    =
0.33 |
>
> * With opt. Results
>
>   | test                    | non-gc (s) | gc (s) | gcs | total (s) | err=
 (s) |
>   |-------------------------+------------+--------+-----+-----------+----=
-----|
>   | replace-region-contents |       0.89 |   0.00 |   0 |      0.89 |    =
0.32 |
>   |-------------------------+------------+--------+-----+-----------+----=
-----|
>   | total                   |       0.89 |   0.00 |   0 |      0.89 |    =
0.32 |

** master Results

  | test                    | non-gc (s) | gc (s) | gcs | total (s) | err (=
s) |
  |-------------------------+------------+--------+-----+-----------+------=
---|
  | replace-region-contents |       1.04 |   0.00 |   0 |      1.04 |    0.=
33 |
  |-------------------------+------------+--------+-----+-----------+------=
---|
  | total                   |       1.04 |   0.00 |   0 |      1.04 |    0.=
33 |

So, improvement, also here with text-index.

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>> - Any chance you could add a comment explaining how you arrived at
>>   text_index_interval=3D4*1024?  If it's arbitrarily chosen, adding a
>>   comment to that effect might be useful.
> It's neither completely arbitrary nor can I really say much about it.
> INTERVAL / 2 is basically the worst-case distance one has to scan
> through text. Don't really know what to say more, and the above is
> pretty obvious.=20

FWIW, the current code in `master` uses a threshold of 5k (sometimes 5k
bytes, sometimes 5k chars) as the minimum distance between
"cache-markers".

It's a tradeoff between the size of the text-index array (and the time
it takes to populate/update it) and the time it takes to scan the text
from one of the positions recorded in that array to the position we're
actually interested in.

We haven't really investigated which value would be ideal.

The code that does the scan can probably be improved significantly
(e.g. by processing the text several bytes at a time).

> (defun elb-replace-region-contents-entry ()
>   (with-temp-buffer
>     (let ((step (apply #'concat (make-list 2000 "=F0=9F=99=82=C3=A9t=C3=
=A9=F0=9F=91=B6=F0=9F=8F=BF "))))
>       (dotimes (_ (/ 100000 (length step)))
>         (insert step)))
>=20
>     (dotimes (_ 100000)
>       (let* ((a (1+ (random (point-max))))
>              (b (1+ (random (point-max))))
>              (beg (min a b))
>              (end (max a b)))
>         (replace-region-contents beg end "=F0=9F=99=82=C3=A9t=C3=A9=F0=9F=
=91=B6=F0=9F=8F=BF =F0=9F=99=82=C3=A9t=C3=A9=F0=9F=91=B6=F0=9F=8F=BF ")))))

As discussed in the other thread, this performs fairly few
charpos->bytepos conversions, actually.  Instead it spends most of its
time inside the `diffseq.h` code.  You could try something like:

    (require 'subr-x)
=20=20=20=20
    (defun elb-replace-region-contents-entry ()
      (with-temp-buffer
        (let ((step (apply #'concat (make-list 2000 "=F0=9F=99=82=C3=A9t=C3=
=A9=F0=9F=91=B6=F0=9F=8F=BF "))))
          (dotimes (_ (/ 500000 (length step)))
            (insert step))
=20=20=20=20
          (dotimes (_ 100000)
            (let* ((a (+ (point-min) (random (buffer-size))))
                   (b (min (+ a (length step) (random 512) -256) (point-max=
))))
              (replace-region-contents a b (lambda () step)))))))

which should spend more time in Emacs's code (especially in
`buffer_chars_equal`) than in `diffseq.h`

>> PS. BTW, a small procedural thing.  Instead of merging master into a
>>     scratch/ branch, I recommend deleting the branch, rebasing it on
>>     master, and then pushing it again.  This way, when we later merge it
>>     into master, we avoid the merge commits, and the history is kept
>>     clean and more easily reviewable.  Not the end of the world either
>>     way, but something to consider.
>
> Sorry, too much work :-).
>
> (For reviewing a branch with merges from master I recommend to find the
> latest merge commit, take the parent commit on the master side, and
> range diff with that. (If you have the merge in the reflog, that
> speeds up finding the latest merge, but that's only the case if you did
> the merge in that repo.))

    git diff origin/master...origin/scratch/text-index

should take care of it.

If there's interest, I could take care of rebasing (and improving the
commit messages on the rebased commits) before merging into `master`.

> I consider this feature done when that is in, and play with arm64 NEON a
> bit instead. In C++ ;-).

BTW, regarding processing several bytes at a time, we could try
something like

    long unsigned eightbytes =3D BUF_FETCH_8BYTES (bytepos);
    long unsigned eightbits =3D ((~eightbytes) & 0x8080808080808080) >> 7;
    long unsigned fourtwobits =3D eightbits + (eightbits >> 32);
    long unsigned twofourbits =3D fourtwobits + (fourtwobits >> 16);
    nchars +=3D (twofourbits + (twofourbits >> 8)) & 0xff;

Not sure it would be significantly faster than the current code, tho.
Maybe an even easier first change would be to replace

      if (CHAR_HEAD_P (BUF_FETCH_BYTE (b, bytepos)))
        ++charpos;

with

      charpos +=3D (~BUF_FETCH_BYTE (b, bytepos)) >> 7;

so as to avoid a branch that can be sometimes hard to predict.


        Stefan

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Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> writes:

>>> - Any chance you could add a comment explaining how you arrived at
>>>   text_index_interval=3D4*1024?  If it's arbitrarily chosen, adding a
>>>   comment to that effect might be useful.
>> It's neither completely arbitrary nor can I really say much about it.
>> INTERVAL / 2 is basically the worst-case distance one has to scan
>> through text. Don't really know what to say more, and the above is
>> pretty obvious.=20
>
> FWIW, the current code in `master` uses a threshold of 5k (sometimes 5k
> bytes, sometimes 5k chars) as the minimum distance between
> "cache-markers".
>
> It's a tradeoff between the size of the text-index array (and the time
> it takes to populate/update it) and the time it takes to scan the text
> from one of the positions recorded in that array to the position we're
> actually interested in.
>
> We haven't really investigated which value would be ideal.

True. It might even be different between machines, don't know. I once,
in the beginning, tried large values, don't remember, maybe 16K, and
performance seemed to drop, but not much. Difficult to find an ideal
value.

> The code that does the scan can probably be improved significantly
> (e.g. by processing the text several bytes at a time).

For sure.=20

>> (defun elb-replace-region-contents-entry ()
>>   (with-temp-buffer
>>     (let ((step (apply #'concat (make-list 2000 "=F0=9F=99=82=C3=A9t=C3=
=A9=F0=9F=91=B6=F0=9F=8F=BF "))))
>>       (dotimes (_ (/ 100000 (length step)))
>>         (insert step)))
>>=20
>>     (dotimes (_ 100000)
>>       (let* ((a (1+ (random (point-max))))
>>              (b (1+ (random (point-max))))
>>              (beg (min a b))
>>              (end (max a b)))
>>         (replace-region-contents beg end "=F0=9F=99=82=C3=A9t=C3=A9=F0=
=9F=91=B6=F0=9F=8F=BF =F0=9F=99=82=C3=A9t=C3=A9=F0=9F=91=B6=F0=9F=8F=BF "))=
)))
>
> As discussed in the other thread, this performs fairly few
> charpos->bytepos conversions, actually.  Instead it spends most of its
> time inside the `diffseq.h` code.  You could try something like:
>
>     (require 'subr-x)
>=20=20=20=20=20
>     (defun elb-replace-region-contents-entry ()
>       (with-temp-buffer
>         (let ((step (apply #'concat (make-list 2000 "=F0=9F=99=82=C3=A9t=
=C3=A9=F0=9F=91=B6=F0=9F=8F=BF "))))
>           (dotimes (_ (/ 500000 (length step)))
>             (insert step))
>=20=20=20=20=20
>           (dotimes (_ 100000)
>             (let* ((a (+ (point-min) (random (buffer-size))))
>                    (b (min (+ a (length step) (random 512) -256) (point-m=
ax))))
>               (replace-region-contents a b (lambda () step)))))))
>
> which should spend more time in Emacs's code (especially in
> `buffer_chars_equal`) than in `diffseq.h`
>
>>> PS. BTW, a small procedural thing.  Instead of merging master into a
>>>     scratch/ branch, I recommend deleting the branch, rebasing it on
>>>     master, and then pushing it again.  This way, when we later merge it
>>>     into master, we avoid the merge commits, and the history is kept
>>>     clean and more easily reviewable.  Not the end of the world either
>>>     way, but something to consider.
>>
>> Sorry, too much work :-).
>>
>> (For reviewing a branch with merges from master I recommend to find the
>> latest merge commit, take the parent commit on the master side, and
>> range diff with that. (If you have the merge in the reflog, that
>> speeds up finding the latest merge, but that's only the case if you did
>> the merge in that repo.))
>
>     git diff origin/master...origin/scratch/text-index
>
> should take care of it.
>
> If there's interest, I could take care of rebasing (and improving the
> commit messages on the rebased commits) before merging into `master`.

Please consider the branch yours, if you like, as far as I am concerned
:-). Because...

>> I consider this feature done when that is in, and play with arm64 NEON a
>> bit instead. In C++ ;-).

...of that-

>
> BTW, regarding processing several bytes at a time, we could try
> something like
>
>     long unsigned eightbytes =3D BUF_FETCH_8BYTES (bytepos);
>     long unsigned eightbits =3D ((~eightbytes) & 0x8080808080808080) >> 7;
>     long unsigned fourtwobits =3D eightbits + (eightbits >> 32);
>     long unsigned twofourbits =3D fourtwobits + (fourtwobits >> 16);
>     nchars +=3D (twofourbits + (twofourbits >> 8)) & 0xff;
>
> Not sure it would be significantly faster than the current code, tho.
> Maybe an even easier first change would be to replace
>
>       if (CHAR_HEAD_P (BUF_FETCH_BYTE (b, bytepos)))
>         ++charpos;
>
> with
>
>       charpos +=3D (~BUF_FETCH_BYTE (b, bytepos)) >> 7;
>
> so as to avoid a branch that can be sometimes hard to predict.
>

Hard to tell if that would be faster. Maybe if I know a bit more about
the current state of affairs of SIMD support, one could write something
using that.

That would certainly be faster. On my M1 chips it would mean processing
16 bytes at a time (128 bit registers), and I've seen a presentation
that talked about 256 and even 512 bits on some Intel CPUs (AMX).

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Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> writes:

> As discussed in the other thread, this performs fairly few
> charpos->bytepos conversions, actually.  Instead it spends most of its
> time inside the `diffseq.h` code.  You could try something like:
>
>     (require 'subr-x)
>=20=20=20=20=20
>     (defun elb-replace-region-contents-entry ()
>       (with-temp-buffer
>         (let ((step (apply #'concat (make-list 2000 "=F0=9F=99=82=C3=A9t=
=C3=A9=F0=9F=91=B6=F0=9F=8F=BF "))))
>           (dotimes (_ (/ 500000 (length step)))
>             (insert step))
>=20=20=20=20=20
>           (dotimes (_ 100000)
>             (let* ((a (+ (point-min) (random (buffer-size))))
>                    (b (min (+ a (length step) (random 512) -256) (point-m=
ax))))
>               (replace-region-contents a b (lambda () step)))))))
>
> which should spend more time in Emacs's code (especially in
> `buffer_chars_equal`) than in `diffseq.h`

Tried to run that on my mini, but it didn't finish in ca. 2h. So I tried
to call that function on my MB, and had to kill my Emacs :-).

Anyway, the other benchmarks showed an improvement over master, so I'm
content.

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Gerd M=C3=B6llmann <gerd.moellmann@HIDDEN> writes:

>>>> PS. BTW, a small procedural thing.  Instead of merging master into a
>>>>     scratch/ branch, I recommend deleting the branch, rebasing it on
>>>>     master, and then pushing it again.  This way, when we later merge =
it
>>>>     into master, we avoid the merge commits, and the history is kept
>>>>     clean and more easily reviewable.  Not the end of the world either
>>>>     way, but something to consider.
>>>
>>> Sorry, too much work :-).
>>>
>>> (For reviewing a branch with merges from master I recommend to find the
>>> latest merge commit, take the parent commit on the master side, and
>>> range diff with that. (If you have the merge in the reflog, that
>>> speeds up finding the latest merge, but that's only the case if you did
>>> the merge in that repo.))
>>
>>     git diff origin/master...origin/scratch/text-index
>>
>> should take care of it.
>>
>> If there's interest, I could take care of rebasing (and improving the
>> commit messages on the rebased commits) before merging into `master`.
>
> Please consider the branch yours, if you like, as far as I am concerned
> :-). Because...
>
>>> I consider this feature done when that is in, and play with arm64 NEON a
>>> bit instead. In C++ ;-).
>
> ...of that-

It just appeared to me that I better ask instead of making assumptions:
When I landed tty child frames in master, there was a certain procedure
how to do that.  See

  https://yhetil.org/emacs-devel/m2ldwdrnds.fsf@HIDDEN/

where I asked about this, and see Eli's reply. In essence: No rebasing,
squashing, and so on. Following that procedure, is why I posted the
change-log-style commit message for such a merge here.

My assumption up to a few minutes ago was that that procedure has
changed? Which I wouldn't know because I'm not following the lists for
some time. But, as I said, now I'm not really sure...

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> Cc: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@HIDDEN>, 77924 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> From: Gerd Möllmann <gerd.moellmann@HIDDEN>
> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2025 06:47:21 +0200
> 
> Gerd Möllmann <gerd.moellmann@HIDDEN> writes:
> 
> >>>> PS. BTW, a small procedural thing.  Instead of merging master into a
> >>>>     scratch/ branch, I recommend deleting the branch, rebasing it on
> >>>>     master, and then pushing it again.  This way, when we later merge it
> >>>>     into master, we avoid the merge commits, and the history is kept
> >>>>     clean and more easily reviewable.  Not the end of the world either
> >>>>     way, but something to consider.
> >>>
> >>> Sorry, too much work :-).
> >>>
> >>> (For reviewing a branch with merges from master I recommend to find the
> >>> latest merge commit, take the parent commit on the master side, and
> >>> range diff with that. (If you have the merge in the reflog, that
> >>> speeds up finding the latest merge, but that's only the case if you did
> >>> the merge in that repo.))
> >>
> >>     git diff origin/master...origin/scratch/text-index
> >>
> >> should take care of it.
> >>
> >> If there's interest, I could take care of rebasing (and improving the
> >> commit messages on the rebased commits) before merging into `master`.
> >
> > Please consider the branch yours, if you like, as far as I am concerned
> > :-). Because...
> >
> >>> I consider this feature done when that is in, and play with arm64 NEON a
> >>> bit instead. In C++ ;-).
> >
> > ...of that-
> 
> It just appeared to me that I better ask instead of making assumptions:
> When I landed tty child frames in master, there was a certain procedure
> how to do that.  See
> 
>   https://yhetil.org/emacs-devel/m2ldwdrnds.fsf@HIDDEN/
> 
> where I asked about this, and see Eli's reply. In essence: No rebasing,
> squashing, and so on. Following that procedure, is why I posted the
> change-log-style commit message for such a merge here.
> 
> My assumption up to a few minutes ago was that that procedure has
> changed

It hasn't changed.

Some people like to rebase, others dislike rebasing.  (Full
disclosure: I'm in the latter camp.)  Since we decided not to care
either way, we don't request contributors to do it one way or the
other: they can do it however they like, and we will accept that
regardless.

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Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:

>> My assumption up to a few minutes ago was that that procedure has
>> changed
>
> It hasn't changed.
>
> Some people like to rebase, others dislike rebasing.  (Full
> disclosure: I'm in the latter camp.) 

(I'm in the same camp.)

> Since we decided not to care either way, we don't request contributors
> to do it one way or the other: they can do it however they like, and
> we will accept that regardless.

Thanks for the clarification!

Message sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:

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FWIW, I'm not a great fan of rebasing either.  I did rebase the branch
last night not for rebasing's sake but because I felt there was a need
for more detailed commit messages.

In any case, any objection to merging the branch?


        Stefan

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> From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
> Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>,  stefankangas@HIDDEN,
>   77924 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2025 10:34:11 -0400
> 
> FWIW, I'm not a great fan of rebasing either.  I did rebase the branch
> last night not for rebasing's sake but because I felt there was a need
> for more detailed commit messages.
> 
> In any case, any objection to merging the branch?

I'd like to have a closer review of it first, so please wait for a
while.  When I skimmed it, I remember having several, hopefully minor,
aspects that stood out, and I want to take a closer look.

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> Cc: gerd.moellmann@HIDDEN, stefankangas@HIDDEN, 77924 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2025 17:41:18 +0300
> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
> 
> > From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
> > Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>,  stefankangas@HIDDEN,
> >   77924 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> > Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2025 10:34:11 -0400
> > 
> > FWIW, I'm not a great fan of rebasing either.  I did rebase the branch
> > last night not for rebasing's sake but because I felt there was a need
> > for more detailed commit messages.
> > 
> > In any case, any objection to merging the branch?
> 
> I'd like to have a closer review of it first, so please wait for a
> while.  When I skimmed it, I remember having several, hopefully minor,
> aspects that stood out, and I want to take a closer look.

Btw, did I miss some benchmarks?  I presume that the main motivation
for this branch is to speed up markers and charpos-to-bytepos
conversions, is that right?  If so, the only benchmark I saw shows only
a very mild speed-up, but maybe I missed something?

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[ Hi Martin, need your opinion on `marker-last-position`.  ]

Eli wrote:
>> I'd like to have a closer review of it first, so please wait for a
>> while.  When I skimmed it, I remember having several, hopefully minor,
>> aspects that stood out, and I want to take a closer look.

Please do.  I hope my rebase makes it easier.  =F0=9F=99=82

BTW, during my rebasing I noticed the following incompatibility:

    commit 89ad510b2ebd5ed3ed8477e4a45ada3402bcedca
    Author: Gerd M=C3=B6llmann <gerd.moellmann@HIDDEN>
    Date:   Thu Apr 17 08:42:52 2025 +0200
=20=20=20=20
        marker-vector.c: Move marker's position info to the array

makes it "impossible" to implement `marker-last-position`.

AFAICT this function is not used outside of Emacs at all (based on
a search of all *ELPA packages), but it *is* used in
`window--state-put-2`, since the following commit:

    commit 912e37b811107768e0cb3bc95184177f817dbdb2
    Author: Martin Rudalics <rudalics@HIDDEN>
    Date:   Mon Mar 4 10:33:49 2024 +0100
=20=20=20=20
        Fix 'set-window-configuration' and 'window-state-put'

What's the impact of breaking `marker-last-position`?


        Stefan

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Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> writes:

> FWIW, I'm not a great fan of rebasing either.  I did rebase the branch
> last night not for rebasing's sake but because I felt there was a need
> for more detailed commit messages.
>
> In any case, any objection to merging the branch?

BTW, while porting back your changes, I got

  1 emacs-git =E2=80=A6 am --3way -- /Users/gerd/emacs/github/cl-packages/0=
003-marker_vector_adjust_for_delete-Delete-function.patch
Markdown-style quotes in commit message
Markdown-style quotes in commit message
Commit aborted; please see the file CONTRIBUTE

:-)

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Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN> writes:

> Gerd and I played with some micro benchmarks to confirm that the
> pathological behaviors are indeed solved, but other than that, the focus
> was on making sure the branch does not make the normal case slower
> (contrary to my sorted-array-of-markers-with-gap).

And, not to forget, it removed the cache markers which piled up a bit in
igc. That was actually my original motivation at the beginning.

Very nice, but so far only for. And, I don't know if that's wishful
thinking, but it feels a bit snappier in interactive use.

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> Btw, did I miss some benchmarks?  I presume that the main motivation
> for this branch is to speed up markers and charpos-to-bytepos
> conversions, is that right?  If so, the only benchmark I saw shows only
> a very mild speed-up, but maybe I missed something?

AFAICT we have tuned the current charpos<->bytepos conversion code such
that its worst case virtually never shows up in practice.

Supposedly Ihor has a use case where that conversion still can make
a noticeable difference, but I don't know if he tried the `text-index`
branch to confirm that it makes a measurable difference on his case.

Gerd and I played with some micro benchmarks to confirm that the
pathological behaviors are indeed solved, but other than that, the focus
was on making sure the branch does not make the normal case slower
(contrary to my sorted-array-of-markers-with-gap).


        Stefan

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> From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
> Cc: gerd.moellmann@HIDDEN,  stefankangas@HIDDEN,
> 	77924 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN>
> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2025 11:41:43 -0400
> 
> > Btw, did I miss some benchmarks?  I presume that the main motivation
> > for this branch is to speed up markers and charpos-to-bytepos
> > conversions, is that right?  If so, the only benchmark I saw shows only
> > a very mild speed-up, but maybe I missed something?
> 
> AFAICT we have tuned the current charpos<->bytepos conversion code such
> that its worst case virtually never shows up in practice.
> 
> Supposedly Ihor has a use case where that conversion still can make
> a noticeable difference, but I don't know if he tried the `text-index`
> branch to confirm that it makes a measurable difference on his case.
> 
> Gerd and I played with some micro benchmarks to confirm that the
> pathological behaviors are indeed solved, but other than that, the focus
> was on making sure the branch does not make the normal case slower
> (contrary to my sorted-array-of-markers-with-gap).

Still, for performance-oriented changes, it would be nice to see some
benchmarks.  Scrolling through some large file with many non-ASCII
characters comes to mind (the Unicode UCD has quite a few of such
files).

Also, I believe there were cases where a lot of conversions
created gobs of markers which slowed down things; it would be good to
run those cases to see how they are affected.

And finally, how about running the whole benchmark suite we have, in
case it uncovers some unexpected results?

Thanks.

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Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2025 07:42:21 +0200
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Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:

>> From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
>> Cc: gerd.moellmann@HIDDEN,  stefankangas@HIDDEN,
>> 	77924 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN>
>> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2025 11:41:43 -0400
>> 
>> > Btw, did I miss some benchmarks?  I presume that the main motivation
>> > for this branch is to speed up markers and charpos-to-bytepos
>> > conversions, is that right?  If so, the only benchmark I saw shows only
>> > a very mild speed-up, but maybe I missed something?
>> 
>> AFAICT we have tuned the current charpos<->bytepos conversion code such
>> that its worst case virtually never shows up in practice.
>> 
>> Supposedly Ihor has a use case where that conversion still can make
>> a noticeable difference, but I don't know if he tried the `text-index`
>> branch to confirm that it makes a measurable difference on his case.
>> 
>> Gerd and I played with some micro benchmarks to confirm that the
>> pathological behaviors are indeed solved, but other than that, the focus
>> was on making sure the branch does not make the normal case slower
>> (contrary to my sorted-array-of-markers-with-gap).
>
> Still, for performance-oriented changes, it would be nice to see some
> benchmarks.  Scrolling through some large file with many non-ASCII
> characters comes to mind (the Unicode UCD has quite a few of such
> files).
>
> Also, I believe there were cases where a lot of conversions
> created gobs of markers which slowed down things; it would be good to
> run those cases to see how they are affected.
>
> And finally, how about running the whole benchmark suite we have, in
> case it uncovers some unexpected results?

I can offer to run benchmarks on my Mac mini.

But we should agree upon what elisp-benchmark files I should use and on
the number of runs, because running them takes an eternity, and because
some of the benchmarks Stef (and me for elb-search) ran are not in the
"official" elisp-benchmarks package.

Don't know about the scrolling benchmark. Is what is in elisp-benchmarks
enough? If not, can you please give me a bencnhmark file for what you
want benchmarked?

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[=E0=AE=B5=E0=AE=BF=E0=AE=AF=E0=AE=BE=E0=AE=B4=E0=AE=A9=E0=AF=8D =E0=AE=8F=
=E0=AE=AA=E0=AF=8D=E0=AE=B0=E0=AE=B2=E0=AF=8D 24, 2025] Eli Zaretskii wrote:

>> From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
>> Cc: gerd.moellmann@HIDDEN,  stefankangas@HIDDEN,
>> 	77924 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN>
>> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2025 11:41:43 -0400
>>=20
>> > Btw, did I miss some benchmarks?  I presume that the main motivation
>> > for this branch is to speed up markers and charpos-to-bytepos
>> > conversions, is that right?  If so, the only benchmark I saw shows only
>> > a very mild speed-up, but maybe I missed something?
>>=20
>> AFAICT we have tuned the current charpos<->bytepos conversion code such
>> that its worst case virtually never shows up in practice.
>>=20
>> Supposedly Ihor has a use case where that conversion still can make
>> a noticeable difference, but I don't know if he tried the `text-index`
>> branch to confirm that it makes a measurable difference on his case.
>>=20
>> Gerd and I played with some micro benchmarks to confirm that the
>> pathological behaviors are indeed solved, but other than that, the focus
>> was on making sure the branch does not make the normal case slower
>> (contrary to my sorted-array-of-markers-with-gap).
>
> Still, for performance-oriented changes, it would be nice to see some
> benchmarks.  Scrolling through some large file with many non-ASCII
> characters comes to mind (the Unicode UCD has quite a few of such
> files).

Is there a standard benchmark code that I can try for this?  I have such
a large HTML file with Tamil text, and I can scroll through the buffer
produced by shr-render-buffer.

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From: Gerd =?UTF-8?Q?M=C3=B6llmann?= <gerd.moellmann@HIDDEN>
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Visuwesh <visuweshm@HIDDEN> writes:

> [=E0=AE=B5=E0=AE=BF=E0=AE=AF=E0=AE=BE=E0=AE=B4=E0=AE=A9=E0=AF=8D =E0=AE=
=8F=E0=AE=AA=E0=AF=8D=E0=AE=B0=E0=AE=B2=E0=AF=8D 24, 2025] Eli Zaretskii wr=
ote:
>
>>> From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>
>>> Cc: gerd.moellmann@HIDDEN,  stefankangas@HIDDEN,
>>> 	77924 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@HIDDEN>
>>> Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2025 11:41:43 -0400
>>>=20
>>> > Btw, did I miss some benchmarks?  I presume that the main motivation
>>> > for this branch is to speed up markers and charpos-to-bytepos
>>> > conversions, is that right?  If so, the only benchmark I saw shows on=
ly
>>> > a very mild speed-up, but maybe I missed something?
>>>=20
>>> AFAICT we have tuned the current charpos<->bytepos conversion code such
>>> that its worst case virtually never shows up in practice.
>>>=20
>>> Supposedly Ihor has a use case where that conversion still can make
>>> a noticeable difference, but I don't know if he tried the `text-index`
>>> branch to confirm that it makes a measurable difference on his case.
>>>=20
>>> Gerd and I played with some micro benchmarks to confirm that the
>>> pathological behaviors are indeed solved, but other than that, the focus
>>> was on making sure the branch does not make the normal case slower
>>> (contrary to my sorted-array-of-markers-with-gap).
>>
>> Still, for performance-oriented changes, it would be nice to see some
>> benchmarks.  Scrolling through some large file with many non-ASCII
>> characters comes to mind (the Unicode UCD has quite a few of such
>> files).
>
> Is there a standard benchmark code that I can try for this?  I have such
> a large HTML file with Tamil text, and I can scroll through the buffer
> produced by shr-render-buffer.

The elisp-benchmarks package has an elb-scroll.el, in its benchmarks
directory. AFAICT, that loads an xmenu.c from the resources
sub-directory of the benchmarks.

You could copy that, or modify it.

P.S.

One can set the benchmarks directory to somewhere else, and run
benchmarks like this:

  (setq elb-bench-directory "~/emacs/notes/code/benchmarks")
  (elisp-benchmarks-run ".*replace-region-contents.*" t 100)

The 100 is the number of runs, which should be chosen high enough that
the "err" column in the result buffer is reasonably low. I'd start with
1 to see how long that takes, and then increase it.

Message sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:

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> From: Gerd M�llmann <gerd.moellmann@HIDDEN>
> Cc: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>,  stefankangas@HIDDEN,
>   77924 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,  yantar92@HIDDEN
> Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2025 07:42:21 +0200
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:
> 
> > Still, for performance-oriented changes, it would be nice to see some
> > benchmarks.  Scrolling through some large file with many non-ASCII
> > characters comes to mind (the Unicode UCD has quite a few of such
> > files).
> >
> > Also, I believe there were cases where a lot of conversions
> > created gobs of markers which slowed down things; it would be good to
> > run those cases to see how they are affected.
> >
> > And finally, how about running the whole benchmark suite we have, in
> > case it uncovers some unexpected results?
> 
> I can offer to run benchmarks on my Mac mini.

Should be fine, I think.  I very much doubt that there will be
significant differences between platforms for this kind of changes.

> But we should agree upon what elisp-benchmark files I should use and on
> the number of runs, because running them takes an eternity, and because
> some of the benchmarks Stef (and me for elb-search) ran are not in the
> "official" elisp-benchmarks package.

I trust you and Stefan to decide on that.  I myself am not familiar
with the elisp-benchmarks suite well enough to have an opinion that is
of importance.  From where I stand, the important part is comparing
the current master with the branch.

> Don't know about the scrolling benchmark. Is what is in elisp-benchmarks
> enough? If not, can you please give me a bencnhmark file for what you
> want benchmarked?

I don't know whether we have it in elisp-benchmarks, but if we don't,
then the following should be good enough:

(defun scroll-up-benchmark ()
  (interactive)
  (let ((oldgc gcs-done)
        (oldtime (float-time)))
    (condition-case nil (while t (scroll-up) (redisplay))
      (error (message "GCs: %d Elapsed time: %f seconds"
                      (- gcs-done oldgc) (- (float-time) oldtime))))))

Evaluate this, then invoke "M-x scroll-up-benchmark" in a large buffer
with lots of non-ASCII characters.  Compare the timings between the
two versions of Emacs.

Thanks.

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> From: Visuwesh <visuweshm@HIDDEN>
> Cc: Stefan Monnier <monnier@HIDDEN>,  gerd.moellmann@HIDDEN,
>   yantar92@HIDDEN,  stefankangas@HIDDEN,  77924 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2025 11:31:33 +0530
> 
> > Still, for performance-oriented changes, it would be nice to see some
> > benchmarks.  Scrolling through some large file with many non-ASCII
> > characters comes to mind (the Unicode UCD has quite a few of such
> > files).
> 
> Is there a standard benchmark code that I can try for this?  I have such
> a large HTML file with Tamil text, and I can scroll through the buffer
> produced by shr-render-buffer.

See my response to Gerd a few minutes ago.

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> From: Gerd Möllmann <gerd.moellmann@HIDDEN>
> Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>,  Stefan Monnier
>  <monnier@HIDDEN>,  yantar92@HIDDEN,  stefankangas@HIDDEN,
>   77924 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2025 08:29:22 +0200
> 
> > Is there a standard benchmark code that I can try for this?  I have such
> > a large HTML file with Tamil text, and I can scroll through the buffer
> > produced by shr-render-buffer.
> 
> The elisp-benchmarks package has an elb-scroll.el, in its benchmarks
> directory. AFAICT, that loads an xmenu.c from the resources
> sub-directory of the benchmarks.

Please test scrolling with non-ASCII characters, not with xmenu.c
(which is pure-ASCII), since charpos-to-bytepos conversions in
pure-ASCII buffers are trivial.

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Subject: bug#77924: 31.0.50; [Feature branch] Change marker implementation
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From: Gerd =?UTF-8?Q?M=C3=B6llmann?= <gerd.moellmann@HIDDEN>
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Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:

> I trust you and Stefan to decide on that.  I myself am not familiar
> with the elisp-benchmarks suite well enough to have an opinion that is
> of importance.  From where I stand, the important part is comparing
> the current master with the branch.
>
>> Don't know about the scrolling benchmark. Is what is in elisp-benchmarks
>> enough? If not, can you please give me a bencnhmark file for what you
>> want benchmarked?
>
> I don't know whether we have it in elisp-benchmarks, but if we don't,
> then the following should be good enough:
>
> (defun scroll-up-benchmark ()
>   (interactive)
>   (let ((oldgc gcs-done)
>         (oldtime (float-time)))
>     (condition-case nil (while t (scroll-up) (redisplay))
>       (error (message "GCs: %d Elapsed time: %f seconds"
>                       (- gcs-done oldgc) (- (float-time) oldtime))))))
>
> Evaluate this, then invoke "M-x scroll-up-benchmark" in a large buffer
> with lots of non-ASCII characters.  Compare the timings between the
> two versions of Emacs.

elb-scroll from elisp-bechmarks is basically

      (dotimes (_ 10)
        (elb-smie-mode)
        (goto-char (point-min))
        (condition-case nil
            (while t (scroll-up nil) (redisplay 'force))
          (end-of-buffer nil))))))

looks similar, but I don't know what elb-smie-mode does.

Seems to have something to do with prog-mode, so maybe this depends on
the test file being a C file, which might be interesting for Visuwesh.

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martin rudalics <rudalics@HIDDEN> writes:

>> BTW, during my rebasing I noticed the following incompatibility:
>>
>>      commit 89ad510b2ebd5ed3ed8477e4a45ada3402bcedca
>>      Author: Gerd M=C3=B6llmann <gerd.moellmann@HIDDEN>
>>      Date:   Thu Apr 17 08:42:52 2025 +0200
>>
>>          marker-vector.c: Move marker's position info to the array
>>
>> makes it "impossible" to implement `marker-last-position`.
>
> What would 'markerp' then return for a marker whose buffer has been
> killed?  The idea of 'marker-last-position' is that if some agent (like
> a tab bar entry) keeps a reference to a killed buffer, that buffer
> cannot be collected and neither its markers, although the latter have
> been unchained already.  =E2=80=98marker-position=E2=80=99 would always r=
eturn nil for
> such a marker but 'marker-last-position' would have worked in the past.
>
>> AFAICT this function is not used outside of Emacs at all (based on
>> a search of all *ELPA packages), but it *is* used in
>> `window--state-put-2`, since the following commit:
>>
>>      commit 912e37b811107768e0cb3bc95184177f817dbdb2
>>      Author: Martin Rudalics <rudalics@HIDDEN>
>>      Date:   Mon Mar 4 10:33:49 2024 +0100
>>
>>          Fix 'set-window-configuration' and 'window-state-put'
>>
>> What's the impact of breaking `marker-last-position`?
>
> If 'window-restore-killed-buffer-windows' is a function that tries to
> resurrect a killed buffer, it could not derive the position of the start
> and point position of the buffer in that window.  So AFAICT the function
> 'tab-bar-select-restore-windows' would be affected.  Juri can tell more.
>
> martin

Hm, that might be an unsolvable problem with igc, actually. At least I
don't know ATM how it could be solved.

Let me try to explain. The function below is what igc uses to scan a
marker vector and remove stale references (weak references). It's from
my Emacs, not from feature/igc, but that doesn't play a role. the
situation is the same here and there.

igc.c:
 2136 static mps_res_t
 2137 fix_marker_vector (mps_ss_t ss, struct Lisp_Vector *v)
 2138 {
 2139   MPS_SCAN_BEGIN (ss)
 2140   {
 2141     const ptrdiff_t max_entry =3D XFIXNUM (v->contents[MARKER_VECTOR_=
MAX_ENTRY]);
 2142     for (ptrdiff_t e =3D MARKER_VECTOR_HEADER_SIZE;
 2143          e <=3D max_entry; e +=3D MARKER_VECTOR_ENTRY_SIZE)
 2144       {
 2145         /* Note that we cannot access anything of a marker here becau=
se
 2146            that is not allowed by MPS while scanning an unrelated
 2147            object.  This includes MARKERP because that accesses the
 2148            header of a marker.  */
 2149         Lisp_Object *p =3D &v->contents[e + MARKER_VECTOR_OFFSET_MARK=
ER];
 2150         if (!NILP (*p) && !FIXNUMP (*p))
 2151           {
 2152             IGC_FIX12_OBJ (ss, p);
 2153             if (NILP (*p))
 2154               {
 2155                 /* Changed to nil means the weak reference was to a d=
ead
 2156                    marker.  Put on free-list.  */
 2157                 v->contents[e] =3D v->contents[MARKER_VECTOR_FREE];
 2158                 v->contents[MARKER_VECTOR_FREE] =3D make_fixnum (e);
 2159               }
 2160           }
 2161       }
 2162   }
 2163   MPS_SCAN_END (ss);
 2164   return MPS_RES_OK;
 2165 }

The problem is that MPS doesn't allow accessing other MPS-managed
objects while working on the marker vector. See the comment at line 2145.

Markers are such MPS-managed objects, so we can't read or change members
of a marker here, not the buffer, not something else.

That restriction is very real, it suffices to add a MARKERP there to
make things literally fall apart when a marker object happens to be
behind a memory barrier, for example.

Like I said, no idea. I've added Helmut and Pip in CC.

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Subject: bug#77924: 31.0.50; [Feature branch] Change marker implementation
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From: Gerd =?UTF-8?Q?M=C3=B6llmann?= <gerd.moellmann@HIDDEN>
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Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2025 11:18:04 +0200
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Gerd M=C3=B6llmann <gerd.moellmann@HIDDEN> writes:

> martin rudalics <rudalics@HIDDEN> writes:
>
>>> BTW, during my rebasing I noticed the following incompatibility:
>>>
>>>      commit 89ad510b2ebd5ed3ed8477e4a45ada3402bcedca
>>>      Author: Gerd M=C3=B6llmann <gerd.moellmann@HIDDEN>
>>>      Date:   Thu Apr 17 08:42:52 2025 +0200
>>>
>>>          marker-vector.c: Move marker's position info to the array
>>>
>>> makes it "impossible" to implement `marker-last-position`.
>>
>> What would 'markerp' then return for a marker whose buffer has been
>> killed?  The idea of 'marker-last-position' is that if some agent (like
>> a tab bar entry) keeps a reference to a killed buffer, that buffer
>> cannot be collected and neither its markers, although the latter have
>> been unchained already.  =E2=80=98marker-position=E2=80=99 would always =
return nil for
>> such a marker but 'marker-last-position' would have worked in the past.
>>
>>> AFAICT this function is not used outside of Emacs at all (based on
>>> a search of all *ELPA packages), but it *is* used in
>>> `window--state-put-2`, since the following commit:
>>>
>>>      commit 912e37b811107768e0cb3bc95184177f817dbdb2
>>>      Author: Martin Rudalics <rudalics@HIDDEN>
>>>      Date:   Mon Mar 4 10:33:49 2024 +0100
>>>
>>>          Fix 'set-window-configuration' and 'window-state-put'
>>>
>>> What's the impact of breaking `marker-last-position`?
>>
>> If 'window-restore-killed-buffer-windows' is a function that tries to
>> resurrect a killed buffer, it could not derive the position of the start
>> and point position of the buffer in that window.  So AFAICT the function
>> 'tab-bar-select-restore-windows' would be affected.  Juri can tell more.
>>
>> martin
>
> Hm, that might be an unsolvable problem with igc, actually. At least I
> don't know ATM how it could be solved.
>
> Let me try to explain. The function below is what igc uses to scan a
> marker vector and remove stale references (weak references). It's from
> my Emacs, not from feature/igc, but that doesn't play a role. the
> situation is the same here and there.
>
> igc.c:
>  2136 static mps_res_t
>  2137 fix_marker_vector (mps_ss_t ss, struct Lisp_Vector *v)
>  2138 {
>  2139   MPS_SCAN_BEGIN (ss)
>  2140   {
>  2141     const ptrdiff_t max_entry =3D XFIXNUM (v->contents[MARKER_VECTO=
R_MAX_ENTRY]);
>  2142     for (ptrdiff_t e =3D MARKER_VECTOR_HEADER_SIZE;
>  2143          e <=3D max_entry; e +=3D MARKER_VECTOR_ENTRY_SIZE)
>  2144       {
>  2145         /* Note that we cannot access anything of a marker here bec=
ause
>  2146            that is not allowed by MPS while scanning an unrelated
>  2147            object.  This includes MARKERP because that accesses the
>  2148            header of a marker.  */
>  2149         Lisp_Object *p =3D &v->contents[e + MARKER_VECTOR_OFFSET_MA=
RKER];
>  2150         if (!NILP (*p) && !FIXNUMP (*p))
>  2151           {
>  2152             IGC_FIX12_OBJ (ss, p);
>  2153             if (NILP (*p))
>  2154               {
>  2155                 /* Changed to nil means the weak reference was to a=
 dead
>  2156                    marker.  Put on free-list.  */
>  2157                 v->contents[e] =3D v->contents[MARKER_VECTOR_FREE];
>  2158                 v->contents[MARKER_VECTOR_FREE] =3D make_fixnum (e);
>  2159               }
>  2160           }
>  2161       }
>  2162   }
>  2163   MPS_SCAN_END (ss);
>  2164   return MPS_RES_OK;
>  2165 }
>
> The problem is that MPS doesn't allow accessing other MPS-managed
> objects while working on the marker vector. See the comment at line 2145.
>
> Markers are such MPS-managed objects, so we can't read or change members
> of a marker here, not the buffer, not something else.
>
> That restriction is very real, it suffices to add a MARKERP there to
> make things literally fall apart when a marker object happens to be
> behind a memory barrier, for example.
>
> Like I said, no idea. I've added Helmut and Pip in CC.

No wait, not a problem :-). If someone from Lisp has that marker in his
hands, it's of course not dead. So, sorry for the confusion.

So, one could, theoretically store the charpos in a field of a marker
when "unchaining" it. Ugly, but doable.

Message sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:

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[=E0=AE=B5=E0=AE=BF=E0=AE=AF=E0=AE=BE=E0=AE=B4=E0=AE=A9=E0=AF=8D =E0=AE=8F=
=E0=AE=AA=E0=AF=8D=E0=AE=B0=E0=AE=B2=E0=AF=8D 24, 2025] Gerd M=C3=B6llmann =
wrote:

> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:
>
>> I trust you and Stefan to decide on that.  I myself am not familiar
>> with the elisp-benchmarks suite well enough to have an opinion that is
>> of importance.  From where I stand, the important part is comparing
>> the current master with the branch.
>>
>>> Don't know about the scrolling benchmark. Is what is in elisp-benchmarks
>>> enough? If not, can you please give me a bencnhmark file for what you
>>> want benchmarked?
>>
>> I don't know whether we have it in elisp-benchmarks, but if we don't,
>> then the following should be good enough:
>>
>> (defun scroll-up-benchmark ()
>>   (interactive)
>>   (let ((oldgc gcs-done)
>>         (oldtime (float-time)))
>>     (condition-case nil (while t (scroll-up) (redisplay))
>>       (error (message "GCs: %d Elapsed time: %f seconds"
>>                       (- gcs-done oldgc) (- (float-time) oldtime))))))
>>
>> Evaluate this, then invoke "M-x scroll-up-benchmark" in a large buffer
>> with lots of non-ASCII characters.  Compare the timings between the
>> two versions of Emacs.
>
> elb-scroll from elisp-bechmarks is basically
>
>       (dotimes (_ 10)
>         (elb-smie-mode)
>         (goto-char (point-min))
>         (condition-case nil
>             (while t (scroll-up nil) (redisplay 'force))
>           (end-of-buffer nil))))))
>
> looks similar, but I don't know what elb-smie-mode does.

elb-smie-mode's is Stefan's SMIE demo as a C major-mode AFAIU.

> Seems to have something to do with prog-mode, so maybe this depends on
> the test file being a C file, which might be interesting for Visuwesh.

I commented out (elb-smie-mode) form in the above snippet and that
showed a backtrace which I could not explain.  Replacing the form with
(text-mode) didn't help either.  So I'm running the benchmark with that
form intact, even though the file I'm scrolling through is a text file.
I am running the benchmark currently, and will report the results once
they are done.

Debugger entered--Lisp error: (overflow-error)
  round(-0.0e+NaN)
  (let ((squares (apply #'+ (mapcar #'(lambda (x) (expt x 2)) errs)))) (rou=
nd (/ (* 100 (sqrt squares)) elapsed)))
  (format "|%2d%%\n" (let ((squares (apply #'+ (mapcar #'(lambda ... ...) e=
rrs)))) (round (/ (* 100 (sqrt squares)) elapsed))))
  (insert (format "|%2d%%\n" (let ((squares (apply #'+ (mapcar #'... errs))=
)) (round (/ (* 100 (sqrt squares)) elapsed)))))
  (let* ((--cl-var-- tests) (test nil) (l nil) (test-elapsed nil) (test-gcs=
 nil) (test-gc-elapsed nil) (test-err nil) (elapsed 0) (gcs 0) (gc-elapsed =
0) (errs nil) (--cl-var-- t)) (while (consp --cl-var--) (setq test (car --c=
l-var--)) (setq l (gethash test res)) (setq test-elapsed (let* ((--cl-var--=
 l) (x nil) (--cl-var-- 0)) (while (consp --cl-var--) (setq x (car --cl-var=
--)) (setq --cl-var-- (+ --cl-var-- (car x))) (setq --cl-var-- (cdr --cl-va=
r--))) --cl-var--)) (setq test-gcs (let* ((--cl-var-- l) (x nil) (--cl-var-=
- 0)) (while (consp --cl-var--) (setq x (car --cl-var--)) (setq --cl-var-- =
(+ --cl-var-- (car ...))) (setq --cl-var-- (cdr --cl-var--))) --cl-var--)) =
(setq test-gc-elapsed (let* ((--cl-var-- l) (x nil) (--cl-var-- 0)) (while =
(consp --cl-var--) (setq x (car --cl-var--)) (setq --cl-var-- (+ --cl-var--=
 (car ...))) (setq --cl-var-- (cdr --cl-var--))) --cl-var--)) (setq test-er=
r (if (cdr l) (elb-std-deviation (mapcar #'car l)))) (insert (apply #'forma=
t "|%s|%.2f|%.2f|%d|%.2f" test (mapcar #'(lambda (x) (/ x runs)) (list (- t=
est-elapsed test-gc-elapsed) test-gc-elapsed test-gcs test-elapsed)))) (ins=
ert (format "|%2d%%\n" (if test-err (round (/ (* 100 test-err) test-elapsed=
)) -0.0))) (setq elapsed (+ elapsed test-elapsed)) (setq gcs (+ gcs test-gc=
s)) (setq gc-elapsed (+ gc-elapsed test-gc-elapsed)) (setq errs (nconc errs=
 (list (or test-err -0.0)))) (setq --cl-var-- (cdr --cl-var--)) (setq --cl-=
var-- nil)) (insert "|-\n") (insert (apply #'format "|total|%.2f|%.2f|%d|%.=
2f" (mapcar #'(lambda (x) (/ x runs)) (list (- elapsed gc-elapsed) gc-elaps=
ed gcs elapsed)))) (insert (format "|%2d%%\n" (let ((squares (apply #'+ (ma=
pcar ... errs)))) (round (/ (* 100 (sqrt squares)) elapsed))))) nil)
  elb--display(("scroll") #<hash-table equal 0/0 0x10e69c524987 ...> 1)
  (while (>=3D (setq --cl-var-- (1- --cl-var--)) 0) (message "Iteration num=
ber: %d" i) (let* ((--cl-var-- tests) (test nil) (entry-point nil) (--cl-va=
r-- t)) (while (consp --cl-var--) (setq test (car --cl-var--)) (setq entry-=
point (intern (concat "elb-" test "-entry"))) (garbage-collect) (message "R=
unning %s..." test) (let ((time (condition-case err (condition-case nil ...=
 ...) (... ... nil)))) (if time (progn (let* (... ...) (puthash v ... v))))=
) (setq --cl-var-- (cdr --cl-var--)) (setq --cl-var-- nil)) nil) (elb--disp=
lay tests res i) (setq i (+ i 1)))
  (let* ((runs (or runs elb-runs)) (--cl-var-- runs) (i 1)) (while (>=3D (s=
etq --cl-var-- (1- --cl-var--)) 0) (message "Iteration number: %d" i) (let*=
 ((--cl-var-- tests) (test nil) (entry-point nil) (--cl-var-- t)) (while (c=
onsp --cl-var--) (setq test (car --cl-var--)) (setq entry-point (intern (co=
ncat "elb-" test "-entry"))) (garbage-collect) (message "Running %s..." tes=
t) (let ((time (condition-case err ... ...))) (if time (progn (let* ... ...=
)))) (setq --cl-var-- (cdr --cl-var--)) (setq --cl-var-- nil)) nil) (elb--d=
isplay tests res i) (setq i (+ i 1))) nil)
  (let ((tests (let ((names 'nil)) (mapatoms #'(lambda (s) (let ... ...))) =
(sort names #'string-lessp)))) (let* ((runs (or runs elb-runs)) (--cl-var--=
 runs) (i 1)) (while (>=3D (setq --cl-var-- (1- --cl-var--)) 0) (message "I=
teration number: %d" i) (let* ((--cl-var-- tests) (test nil) (entry-point n=
il) (--cl-var-- t)) (while (consp --cl-var--) (setq test (car --cl-var--)) =
(setq entry-point (intern (concat "elb-" test "-entry"))) (garbage-collect)=
 (message "Running %s..." test) (let ((time ...)) (if time (progn ...))) (s=
etq --cl-var-- (cdr --cl-var--)) (setq --cl-var-- nil)) nil) (elb--display =
tests res i) (setq i (+ i 1))) nil))
  (let* ((native-comp-speed elb-speed) (compilation-safety elb-safety) (com=
pile-function (if (featurep 'native-compile) #'native-compile #'byte-compil=
e-file)) (res (make-hash-table :test #'equal)) (sources (directory-files el=
b-bench-directory t "\\.el\\'")) (test-sources (if selector (let* ((--cl-va=
r-- sources) (f nil) (--cl-var-- nil)) (while (consp --cl-var--) (setq f (c=
ar --cl-var--)) (if (string-match selector f) (progn ...)) (setq --cl-var--=
 (cdr --cl-var--))) (nreverse --cl-var--)) sources))) (if recompile (progn =
(mapc #'(lambda (f) (message "Compiling... %s" f) (funcall compile-function=
 f)) test-sources))) (mapc #'(lambda (file) (condition-case err (load file)=
 ((debug error) (message "Error loading: %S" err) nil))) (mapcar (if (and (=
featurep 'native-compile) (fboundp 'comp-el-to-eln-filename)) #'comp-el-to-=
eln-filename #'file-name-sans-extension) test-sources)) (let ((tests (let (=
(names 'nil)) (mapatoms #'(lambda ... ...)) (sort names #'string-lessp)))) =
(let* ((runs (or runs elb-runs)) (--cl-var-- runs) (i 1)) (while (>=3D (set=
q --cl-var-- (1- --cl-var--)) 0) (message "Iteration number: %d" i) (let* (=
(--cl-var-- tests) (test nil) (entry-point nil) (--cl-var-- t)) (while (con=
sp --cl-var--) (setq test (car --cl-var--)) (setq entry-point (intern ...))=
 (garbage-collect) (message "Running %s..." test) (let (...) (if time ...))=
 (setq --cl-var-- (cdr --cl-var--)) (setq --cl-var-- nil)) nil) (elb--displ=
ay tests res i) (setq i (+ i 1))) nil)))
  (progn (if --cl-rest-- (signal 'wrong-number-of-arguments (list 'elisp-be=
nchmarks-run (+ 3 (length --cl-rest--))))) (let* ((native-comp-speed elb-sp=
eed) (compilation-safety elb-safety) (compile-function (if (featurep 'nativ=
e-compile) #'native-compile #'byte-compile-file)) (res (make-hash-table :te=
st #'equal)) (sources (directory-files elb-bench-directory t "\\.el\\'")) (=
test-sources (if selector (let* ((--cl-var-- sources) (f nil) (--cl-var-- n=
il)) (while (consp --cl-var--) (setq f ...) (if ... ...) (setq --cl-var-- .=
..)) (nreverse --cl-var--)) sources))) (if recompile (progn (mapc #'(lambda=
 (f) (message "Compiling... %s" f) (funcall compile-function f)) test-sourc=
es))) (mapc #'(lambda (file) (condition-case err (load file) ((debug error)=
 (message "Error loading: %S" err) nil))) (mapcar (if (and (featurep 'nativ=
e-compile) (fboundp 'comp-el-to-eln-filename)) #'comp-el-to-eln-filename #'=
file-name-sans-extension) test-sources)) (let ((tests (let ((names ...)) (m=
apatoms #'...) (sort names #'string-lessp)))) (let* ((runs (or runs elb-run=
s)) (--cl-var-- runs) (i 1)) (while (>=3D (setq --cl-var-- (1- --cl-var--))=
 0) (message "Iteration number: %d" i) (let* ((--cl-var-- tests) (test nil)=
 (entry-point nil) (--cl-var-- t)) (while (consp --cl-var--) (setq test ...=
) (setq entry-point ...) (garbage-collect) (message "Running %s..." test) (=
let ... ...) (setq --cl-var-- ...) (setq --cl-var-- nil)) nil) (elb--displa=
y tests res i) (setq i (+ i 1))) nil))))
  (let* ((recompile (if --cl-rest-- (car-safe (prog1 --cl-rest-- (setq --cl=
-rest-- (cdr --cl-rest--)))) t)) (runs (car-safe (prog1 --cl-rest-- (setq -=
-cl-rest-- (cdr --cl-rest--)))))) (progn (if --cl-rest-- (signal 'wrong-num=
ber-of-arguments (list 'elisp-benchmarks-run (+ 3 (length --cl-rest--))))) =
(let* ((native-comp-speed elb-speed) (compilation-safety elb-safety) (compi=
le-function (if (featurep 'native-compile) #'native-compile #'byte-compile-=
file)) (res (make-hash-table :test #'equal)) (sources (directory-files elb-=
bench-directory t "\\.el\\'")) (test-sources (if selector (let* (... ... ..=
.) (while ... ... ... ...) (nreverse --cl-var--)) sources))) (if recompile =
(progn (mapc #'(lambda ... ... ...) test-sources))) (mapc #'(lambda (file) =
(condition-case err (load file) (... ... nil))) (mapcar (if (and (featurep =
...) (fboundp ...)) #'comp-el-to-eln-filename #'file-name-sans-extension) t=
est-sources)) (let ((tests (let (...) (mapatoms ...) (sort names ...)))) (l=
et* ((runs (or runs elb-runs)) (--cl-var-- runs) (i 1)) (while (>=3D (setq =
--cl-var-- ...) 0) (message "Iteration number: %d" i) (let* (... ... ... ..=
.) (while ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...) nil) (elb--display tests res i) =
(setq i (+ i 1))) nil)))))
  elisp-benchmarks-run("elb-scroll" t 100)
  (progn (elisp-benchmarks-run "elb-scroll" t 100))
  eval((progn (elisp-benchmarks-run "elb-scroll" t 100)) t)
  elisp--eval-last-sexp(nil)
  #f(compiled-function () #<bytecode 0xf3e77a510d12>)()
  handler-bind-1(#f(compiled-function () #<bytecode 0xf3e77a510d12>) (error=
) eval-expression--debug)
  eval-last-sexp(nil)
  funcall-interactively(eval-last-sexp nil)
  call-interactively(eval-last-sexp nil nil)
  command-execute(eval-last-sexp)

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Gerd M=C3=B6llmann <gerd.moellmann@HIDDEN> writes:

> So, one could, theoretically store the charpos in a field of a marker
> when "unchaining" it. Ugly, but doable.

And one could do something practically, which I now pushed to savannah.

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From: Gerd =?UTF-8?Q?M=C3=B6llmann?= <gerd.moellmann@HIDDEN>
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Visuwesh <visuweshm@HIDDEN> writes:

> [=E0=AE=B5=E0=AE=BF=E0=AE=AF=E0=AE=BE=E0=AE=B4=E0=AE=A9=E0=AF=8D =E0=AE=
=8F=E0=AE=AA=E0=AF=8D=E0=AE=B0=E0=AE=B2=E0=AF=8D 24, 2025] Gerd M=C3=B6llma=
nn wrote:
>
>> looks similar, but I don't know what elb-smie-mode does.
>
> elb-smie-mode's is Stefan's SMIE demo as a C major-mode AFAIU.

Thanks, but I have no idea what that does.

>
>> Seems to have something to do with prog-mode, so maybe this depends on
>> the test file being a C file, which might be interesting for Visuwesh.
>
> I commented out (elb-smie-mode) form in the above snippet and that
> showed a backtrace which I could not explain.  Replacing the form with
> (text-mode) didn't help either.  So I'm running the benchmark with that
> form intact, even though the file I'm scrolling through is a text file.
> I am running the benchmark currently, and will report the results once
> they are done.
>
> Debugger entered--Lisp error: (overflow-error)
>   round(-0.0e+NaN)
>   (let ((squares (apply #'+ (mapcar #'(lambda (x) (expt x 2)) errs))))
> (round (/ (* 100 (sqrt squares)) elapsed)))
>   (format "|%2d%%\n" (let ((squares (apply #'+ (mapcar #'(lambda ...
> ...) errs)))) (round (/ (* 100 (sqrt squares)) elapsed))))
>   (insert (format "|%2d%%\n" (let ((squares (apply #'+ (mapcar #'...
> errs)))) (round (/ (* 100 (sqrt squares)) elapsed)))))
>   (let* ((--cl-var-- tests) (test nil) (l nil) (test-elapsed nil)
> (test-gcs nil) (test-gc-elapsed nil) (test-err nil) (elapsed 0) (gcs
> 0) (gc-elapsed 0) (errs nil) (--cl-var-- t)) (while (consp --cl-var--)
> (setq test (car --cl-var--)) (setq l (gethash test res)) (setq
> test-elapsed (let* ((--cl-var-- l) (x nil) (--cl-var-- 0)) (while
> (consp --cl-var--) (setq x (car --cl-var--)) (setq --cl-var-- (+
> --cl-var-- (car x))) (setq --cl-var-- (cdr --cl-var--))) --cl-var--))
> (setq test-gcs (let* ((--cl-var-- l) (x nil) (--cl-var-- 0)) (while
> (consp --cl-var--) (setq x (car --cl-var--)) (setq --cl-var-- (+
> --cl-var-- (car ...))) (setq --cl-var-- (cdr --cl-var--)))
> --cl-var--)) (setq test-gc-elapsed (let* ((--cl-var-- l) (x nil)
> (--cl-var-- 0)) (while (consp --cl-var--) (setq x (car --cl-var--))
> (setq --cl-var-- (+ --cl-var-- (car ...))) (setq --cl-var-- (cdr
> --cl-var--))) --cl-var--)) (setq test-err (if (cdr l)
> (elb-std-deviation (mapcar #'car l)))) (insert (apply #'format

Something went wrong when computing the "err" values, apparently. Maybe
it'll work if you increase the number of runs the NaN goes away?

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From: Visuwesh <visuweshm@HIDDEN>
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[=E0=AE=B5=E0=AE=BF=E0=AE=AF=E0=AE=BE=E0=AE=B4=E0=AE=A9=E0=AF=8D =E0=AE=8F=
=E0=AE=AA=E0=AF=8D=E0=AE=B0=E0=AE=B2=E0=AF=8D 24, 2025] Gerd M=C3=B6llmann =
wrote:

>>> Seems to have something to do with prog-mode, so maybe this depends on
>>> the test file being a C file, which might be interesting for Visuwesh.
>>
>> I commented out (elb-smie-mode) form in the above snippet and that
>> showed a backtrace which I could not explain.  Replacing the form with
>> (text-mode) didn't help either.  So I'm running the benchmark with that
>> form intact, even though the file I'm scrolling through is a text file.
>> I am running the benchmark currently, and will report the results once
>> they are done.
>>
>> Debugger entered--Lisp error: (overflow-error)
>>   round(-0.0e+NaN)
>>   (let ((squares (apply #'+ (mapcar #'(lambda (x) (expt x 2)) errs))))
>> (round (/ (* 100 (sqrt squares)) elapsed)))
>>   (format "|%2d%%\n" (let ((squares (apply #'+ (mapcar #'(lambda ...
>> ...) errs)))) (round (/ (* 100 (sqrt squares)) elapsed))))
>>   (insert (format "|%2d%%\n" (let ((squares (apply #'+ (mapcar #'...
>> errs)))) (round (/ (* 100 (sqrt squares)) elapsed)))))
>>   (let* ((--cl-var-- tests) (test nil) (l nil) (test-elapsed nil)
>> (test-gcs nil) (test-gc-elapsed nil) (test-err nil) (elapsed 0) (gcs
>> 0) (gc-elapsed 0) (errs nil) (--cl-var-- t)) (while (consp --cl-var--)
>> (setq test (car --cl-var--)) (setq l (gethash test res)) (setq
>> test-elapsed (let* ((--cl-var-- l) (x nil) (--cl-var-- 0)) (while
>> (consp --cl-var--) (setq x (car --cl-var--)) (setq --cl-var-- (+
>> --cl-var-- (car x))) (setq --cl-var-- (cdr --cl-var--))) --cl-var--))
>> (setq test-gcs (let* ((--cl-var-- l) (x nil) (--cl-var-- 0)) (while
>> (consp --cl-var--) (setq x (car --cl-var--)) (setq --cl-var-- (+
>> --cl-var-- (car ...))) (setq --cl-var-- (cdr --cl-var--)))
>> --cl-var--)) (setq test-gc-elapsed (let* ((--cl-var-- l) (x nil)
>> (--cl-var-- 0)) (while (consp --cl-var--) (setq x (car --cl-var--))
>> (setq --cl-var-- (+ --cl-var-- (car ...))) (setq --cl-var-- (cdr
>> --cl-var--))) --cl-var--)) (setq test-err (if (cdr l)
>> (elb-std-deviation (mapcar #'car l)))) (insert (apply #'format
>
> Something went wrong when computing the "err" values, apparently. Maybe
> it'll work if you increase the number of runs the NaN goes away?

Oddly enough, it throws an error as soon as I start the benchmark.  I
don't think even a single iteration in the loop of elb-scroll-entry is
complete, let alone a complete run.

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Subject: bug#77924: 31.0.50; [Feature branch] Change marker implementation
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Gerd M=C3=B6llmann <gerd.moellmann@HIDDEN> writes:

> Gerd M=C3=B6llmann <gerd.moellmann@HIDDEN> writes:
>
>> So, one could, theoretically store the charpos in a field of a marker
>> when "unchaining" it. Ugly, but doable.
>
> And one could do something practically, which I now pushed to savannah.

Can you explain how that works in the non-indirect buffer case?  AFAICT,
we call marker_vector_reset but not marker_vector_remove in that case,
and there is no code in marker_vector_reset to remember the last
charpos.  And the comment in marker_vector_reset sounds like it's not
called at all in the IGC case?

Pip

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Subject: bug#77924: 31.0.50; [Feature branch] Change marker implementation
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Visuwesh <visuweshm@HIDDEN> writes:

> [=E0=AE=B5=E0=AE=BF=E0=AE=AF=E0=AE=BE=E0=AE=B4=E0=AE=A9=E0=AF=8D =E0=AE=
=8F=E0=AE=AA=E0=AF=8D=E0=AE=B0=E0=AE=B2=E0=AF=8D 24, 2025] Gerd M=C3=B6llma=
nn wrote:
>
>>>> Seems to have something to do with prog-mode, so maybe this depends on
>>>> the test file being a C file, which might be interesting for Visuwesh.
>>>
>>> I commented out (elb-smie-mode) form in the above snippet and that
>>> showed a backtrace which I could not explain.  Replacing the form with
>>> (text-mode) didn't help either.  So I'm running the benchmark with that
>>> form intact, even though the file I'm scrolling through is a text file.
>>> I am running the benchmark currently, and will report the results once
>>> they are done.
>>>
>>> Debugger entered--Lisp error: (overflow-error)
>>>   round(-0.0e+NaN)
>>>   (let ((squares (apply #'+ (mapcar #'(lambda (x) (expt x 2)) errs))))
>>> (round (/ (* 100 (sqrt squares)) elapsed)))
>>>   (format "|%2d%%\n" (let ((squares (apply #'+ (mapcar #'(lambda ...
>>> ...) errs)))) (round (/ (* 100 (sqrt squares)) elapsed))))
>>>   (insert (format "|%2d%%\n" (let ((squares (apply #'+ (mapcar #'...
>>> errs)))) (round (/ (* 100 (sqrt squares)) elapsed)))))
>>>   (let* ((--cl-var-- tests) (test nil) (l nil) (test-elapsed nil)
>>> (test-gcs nil) (test-gc-elapsed nil) (test-err nil) (elapsed 0) (gcs
>>> 0) (gc-elapsed 0) (errs nil) (--cl-var-- t)) (while (consp --cl-var--)
>>> (setq test (car --cl-var--)) (setq l (gethash test res)) (setq
>>> test-elapsed (let* ((--cl-var-- l) (x nil) (--cl-var-- 0)) (while
>>> (consp --cl-var--) (setq x (car --cl-var--)) (setq --cl-var-- (+
>>> --cl-var-- (car x))) (setq --cl-var-- (cdr --cl-var--))) --cl-var--))
>>> (setq test-gcs (let* ((--cl-var-- l) (x nil) (--cl-var-- 0)) (while
>>> (consp --cl-var--) (setq x (car --cl-var--)) (setq --cl-var-- (+
>>> --cl-var-- (car ...))) (setq --cl-var-- (cdr --cl-var--)))
>>> --cl-var--)) (setq test-gc-elapsed (let* ((--cl-var-- l) (x nil)
>>> (--cl-var-- 0)) (while (consp --cl-var--) (setq x (car --cl-var--))
>>> (setq --cl-var-- (+ --cl-var-- (car ...))) (setq --cl-var-- (cdr
>>> --cl-var--))) --cl-var--)) (setq test-err (if (cdr l)
>>> (elb-std-deviation (mapcar #'car l)))) (insert (apply #'format
>>
>> Something went wrong when computing the "err" values, apparently. Maybe
>> it'll work if you increase the number of runs the NaN goes away?
>
> Oddly enough, it throws an error as soon as I start the benchmark.  I
> don't think even a single iteration in the loop of elb-scroll-entry is
> complete, let alone a complete run.

Hm, I can't really get that to run really well either, but while trying
I found that

 - it must be run with GUI emacs -Q because it tries to enlarge-window
   which it can't on a terminal, and it assumes certain sizes
   ("stipulated sizes not whatever" error)

 - the resources directory containing xmenu.c or whatever must be a
   sibling to the benchmarks directory

 - The pattern matching the test case doesn't seem to always work. I use
   ".*scroll.*" but the report at the end shows also "setq" and
   "font-lock"???
=20=20

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Pip Cet <pipcet@HIDDEN> writes:

> Gerd M=C3=B6llmann <gerd.moellmann@HIDDEN> writes:
>
>> Gerd M=C3=B6llmann <gerd.moellmann@HIDDEN> writes:
>>
>>> So, one could, theoretically store the charpos in a field of a marker
>>> when "unchaining" it. Ugly, but doable.
>>
>> And one could do something practically, which I now pushed to savannah.
>
> Can you explain how that works in the non-indirect buffer case?=20=20

Yes, it doesn't :-).

> AFAICT, we call marker_vector_reset but not marker_vector_remove in
> that case, and there is no code in marker_vector_reset to remember the
> last charpos. And the comment in marker_vector_reset sounds like it's
> not called at all in the IGC case?

You mean this:

  /* The old GC contains at least one assertion that unchaining markers
     in kill-buffer resets the markers' buffers.  IGC does not do this,
     can't do this, and does not need it.  */

What I meant there is what I described in my mistaken mail before, that
it can't do anything with the markers. But if they are dead, who cares.
CLassic thinko.

I'll remove these comments.

Thanks!

Message sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:

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Gerd M=C3=B6llmann <gerd.moellmann@HIDDEN> writes:

> I'll remove these comments.

Show now be on savannah.

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