Received: (at 78785) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Jun 2025 09:52:55 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Jun 16 05:52:55 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42463 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1uR6WM-0000OE-Pb for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Jun 2025 05:52:55 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:42788) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1uR6WJ-0000NJ-H6 for 78785 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 16 Jun 2025 05:52:52 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1uR6W7-0002Rq-BK; Mon, 16 Jun 2025 05:52:40 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=5nFhbAgcdY1afS945vsHHl8qpQz/YSdeW4WGMiaF2Ls=; b=c1/pRQdWVHFFYYz4UlsN OnyEEZ26bziOi00aQsiCDr/Lzaorg87w2Ia2rengyfhQcjEZWe5IAUaYZRFTOdTGjz1AlTcgIjLxV fDzaorj4AYZcN33GUBcjWpxvz4cg/fK1dCVJ4p7oE85ZRo8mNyD+HOeAvlRG2JDU1bLtvS7fo3AKU EusGwFewR/ZPy5EGaWhCfsHt3sCY7OmIRMgs3lOKhNrp5mHG1f4rZxf8Q7sEVXsWhZoPDtHZ70iAF vGfi2sz/Mh70QbKIrPChcoAIUEJt7Jl2d1ZOJqYmVyYe0xDBrkkF+3r50c5ifREZ8BLGod2B6YbTj nSaD2kNUeGcQdQ==; Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2025 12:52:00 +0300 Message-Id: <861prkovy7.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Chris Hibbert <hibbert@HIDDEN>, martin rudalics <rudalics@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <a2931048-a185-4339-af21-61a402d50161@HIDDEN> (message from Chris Hibbert on Wed, 11 Jun 2025 16:30:04 -0700) Subject: Re: bug#78785: 29.3; docs: switch-to-prev-buffer-skip is hard to find References: <a2931048-a185-4339-af21-61a402d50161@HIDDEN> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 78785 Cc: 78785 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2025 16:30:04 -0700 > From: Chris Hibbert <hibbert@HIDDEN> > > I reported that "kill-buffer chooses a visible buffer as replacement" on > the Emacs StackEchange. > (https://emacs.stackexchange.com/questions/84630) > > Someone responded, and once he understood my problem, pointed out that > switch-to-prev-buffer-skip provides the control I want. > > I'm now suggesting that it would be helpful to document this better. I think there's some confusion here, see below. > For instance, the docs for kill-buffer > (https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Kill-Buffer.html), > say that > "If you kill the current buffer, another buffer becomes current: one > that was current in the recent past but is not displayed in any > window now." > > That describes the behavior I want, but not the default, AFAICT. > > I think the default value of switch-to-prev-buffer-skip is nil. The docs > for switch-to-prev-buffer-skip say > If this variable is nil, ‘switch-to-prev-buffer’ may switch to > any buffer, including those already shown in other windows. There are two related, but different behaviors here, which both happen when the current buffer is killed: . which buffer becomes the current one, and . which buffer replaces the current buffer in its window The manual's documentation of the behavior of kill-buffer which you quote talks about the former, whereas switch-to-prev-buffer-skip affects the latter. So I don't see a problem in the documentation, and AFAIU the correction you suggested for the manual is incorrect, because it wrongly conflates these two subtly different behaviors. I'm adding Martin to this discussion, in the hope that he will have more comments (and will correct me if I'm wrong).
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docs: switch-to-prev-buffer-skip is hard to find Organization: It's Just Me Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-EN-UserInfo: 9392f423407d376e16e13c6f9cad5711:931c98230c6409dcc37fa7e93b490c27 X-EN-AuthUser: notme@HIDDEN X-EN-OrigIP: 162.201.68.121 X-EN-OrigHost: 162-201-68-121.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.96.187.4; envelope-from=SRS0=Y+g5+J=Y3=mydruthers.com=hibbert@HIDDEN; helo=bosmailout04.eigbox.net X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.097, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_SAFE_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 13 Jun 2025 11:13:42 -0400 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) I reported that "kill-buffer chooses a visible buffer as replacement" on the Emacs StackEchange. (https://emacs.stackexchange.com/questions/84630) Someone responded, and once he understood my problem, pointed out that switch-to-prev-buffer-skip provides the control I want. I'm now suggesting that it would be helpful to document this better. For instance, the docs for kill-buffer (https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Kill-Buffer.html), say that "If you kill the current buffer, another buffer becomes current: one that was current in the recent past but is not displayed in any window now." That describes the behavior I want, but not the default, AFAICT. I think the default value of switch-to-prev-buffer-skip is nil. The docs for switch-to-prev-buffer-skip say If this variable is nil, ‘switch-to-prev-buffer’ may switch to any buffer, including those already shown in other windows. If the default value of switch-to-prev-buffer-skip is changed to 'visible', the doc for kill-buffer would be correct. Alternatively, we could replace the line I quoted from kill-buffer to say "If you kill the current buffer, another buffer becomes current: the default chooses an arbitrary buffer. To specify a different strategy, set the variable switch-to-prev-buffer-skip to a non-nil value. 'visible' tells it to skip buffers that are visible. Chris In GNU Emacs 29.3 (build 1, aarch64-apple-darwin21.6.0, NS appkit-2113.60 Version 12.6.6 (Build 21G646)) of 2024-03-24 built on armbob.lan Windowing system distributor 'Apple', version 10.3.2575 System Description: macOS 15.5 Configured using: 'configure --with-ns '--enable-locallisppath=/Library/Application Support/Emacs/${version}/site-lisp:/Library/Application Support/Emacs/site-lisp' --with-modules 'CFLAGS=-DFD_SETSIZE=10000 -DDARWIN_UNLIMITED_SELECT' --with-x-toolkit=no' Configured features: ACL GLIB GMP GNUTLS JPEG JSON LIBXML2 MODULES NOTIFY KQUEUE NS PDUMPER PNG RSVG SQLITE3 THREADS TIFF TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS TREE_SITTER ZLIB Important settings: value of $LANG: en_US.UTF-8 locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix Major mode: Text Minor modes in effect: global-git-commit-mode: t magit-auto-revert-mode: t shell-dirtrack-mode: t desktop-save-mode: t server-mode: t tooltip-mode: t global-eldoc-mode: t show-paren-mode: t electric-indent-mode: t mouse-wheel-mode: t menu-bar-mode: t file-name-shadow-mode: t global-font-lock-mode: t font-lock-mode: t blink-cursor-mode: t line-number-mode: t visual-line-mode: t indent-tabs-mode: t transient-mark-mode: t auto-composition-mode: t auto-encryption-mode: t auto-compression-mode: t abbrev-mode: t Load-path shadows: /Users/chris/.emacs.d/elpa/transient-0.8.8/transient hides /Applications/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/transient Features: (shadow sort mail-extr emacsbug completion mode-local shortdoc magit-extras expand magit-bookmark bookmark filecache xref project tabify cus-start flyspell apropos ispell warnings sh-script rx executable help-fns radix-tree cl-print debug backtrace find-func rect compare-w files-x grep compile display-line-numbers dabbrev doc-view jka-compr image-mode exif misearch multi-isearch dired-aux vc-hg vc-bzr vc-src vc-sccs vc-svn vc-cvs vc-rcs log-view vc bug-reference magit-ediff ediff ediff-merg ediff-mult ediff-wind ediff-diff ediff-help ediff-init ediff-util face-remap lisp-mnt magit-submodule magit-blame magit-stash magit-reflog magit-bisect magit-push magit-pull magit-fetch magit-clone magit-remote magit-commit magit-sequence magit-notes magit-worktree magit-tag magit-merge magit-branch magit-reset magit-files magit-refs magit-status magit magit-repos magit-apply magit-wip magit-log which-func magit-diff smerge-mode diff git-commit log-edit message sendmail dired dired-loaddefs rfc822 mml mml-sec epa derived epg rfc6068 epg-config mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231 rfc2047 rfc2045 ietf-drums mailabbrev gmm-utils mailheader pcvs-util add-log magit-core magit-autorevert magit-margin magit-transient magit-process with-editor shell pcomplete comint ansi-osc ring ansi-color magit-mode transient edmacro kmacro benchmark magit-git magit-base magit-section format-spec cursor-sensor crm llama compat compat-30 cl-extra help-mode yank-media mhtml-mode css-mode smie eww xdg url-queue thingatpt shr pixel-fill kinsoku url-file svg xml puny mm-url gnus nnheader gnus-util text-property-search mail-utils range mm-util mail-prsvr color sgml-mode facemenu dom autorevert filenotify vc-git diff-mode easy-mmode vc-dispatcher js c-ts-common treesit imenu cc-mode cc-fonts cc-guess cc-menus cc-cmds cc-styles cc-align cc-engine cc-vars cc-defs time-date desktop frameset server cus-edit pp cus-load icons wid-edit finder-inf magit-autoloads pcase magit-section-autoloads llama-autoloads transient-autoloads with-editor-autoloads info compat-autoloads package browse-url url url-proxy url-privacy url-expand url-methods url-history url-cookie generate-lisp-file url-domsuf url-util mailcap url-handlers url-parse auth-source cl-seq eieio eieio-core cl-macs password-cache json subr-x map byte-opt gv bytecomp byte-compile url-vars cl-loaddefs cl-lib rmc iso-transl tooltip cconv eldoc paren electric uniquify ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type elisp-mode mwheel term/ns-win ns-win ucs-normalize mule-util term/common-win tool-bar dnd fontset image regexp-opt fringe tabulated-list replace newcomment text-mode lisp-mode prog-mode register page tab-bar menu-bar rfn-eshadow isearch easymenu timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax font-core term/tty-colors frame minibuffer nadvice seq simple cl-generic indonesian philippine cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese eucjp-ms cp51932 hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese composite emoji-zwj charscript charprop case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help abbrev obarray oclosure cl-preloaded button loaddefs theme-loaddefs faces cus-face macroexp files window text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget keymap hashtable-print-readable backquote threads kqueue cocoa ns multi-tty make-network-process emacs) Memory information: ((conses 16 373297 130580) (symbols 48 26162 0) (strings 32 103677 10744) (string-bytes 1 3319413) (vectors 16 63608) (vector-slots 8 1610226 242811) (floats 8 399 511) (intervals 56 5463 6415) (buffers 984 45)) -- Currently reading: The Coming Wave, Mustafa Suleyman; Infinity Hold 3, Barry B. Longyear; Cancelled: The Shape of Things to Come, by Danny King; The Algebraist, Iain Banks; 1638: The Sovereign States, Eric Flint, et. al Chris Hibbert hibbert@HIDDEN Blog: http://www.pancrit.org http://mydruthers.com
Chris Hibbert <hibbert@HIDDEN>
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