GNU bug report logs - #79532
31.0.50; Imperfect behavior in font setting

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Package: emacs; Reported by: Shingo Tanaka <shingo.fg8@HIDDEN>; Done: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>; Maintainer for emacs is bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.

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Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2025 11:01:56 +0300
Message-Id: <867bwsfxjf.fsf@HIDDEN>
From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
To: shingo.fg8@HIDDEN
In-Reply-To: <86ecrq61hl.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Eli Zaretskii on Sun, 28
 Sep 2025 18:27:50 +0300)
Subject: Re: bug#79532: 31.0.50; Imperfect behavior in font setting
References: <87ikh2ygsc.wl-shingo.fg8@HIDDEN> <86seg66arp.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <87h5wmya6r.wl-shingo.fg8@HIDDEN>
 <86jz1i65ky.fsf@HIDDEN> <86v7l2iqal.wl-shingo.fg8@HIDDEN>
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> Cc: 79532 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2025 18:27:50 +0300
> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
> 
> > Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2025 23:51:14 +0900
> > From: Shingo Tanaka <shingo.fg8@HIDDEN>
> > Cc: Shingo Tanaka <shingo.fg8@HIDDEN>,
> > 	79532 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> > 
> > Question:
> > After start up Emacs, when user execute below
> > (set-face-attribute 'default nil :font "Noto Sans CJK JP")
> > 
> > why the text "ºÝÆÁÊ" in hello buffer is shown with "fixed" font
> > but not "Noto Sans CJK JP"?
> 
> I don't know.  To understand that, one needs to trace the code that
> selects a font, and see why it preferred the fixed font.  Fontset
> setup for CJK characters is somewhat complex (see fontset.el), and
> requires various features of the font, so it's hard to answer this
> question for an arbitrary font without actually stepping through the
> code and seeing what was attempted, which font features are supported
> by that font, etc.

No further comments, so I'm closing this bug.

If some new information presents itself, feel free to reopen.
Notification sent to Shingo Tanaka <shingo.fg8@HIDDEN>:
bug acknowledged by developer. Full text available.
Reply sent to Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>:
You have taken responsibility. Full text available.

Message received at 79532 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2025 18:27:50 +0300
Message-Id: <86ecrq61hl.fsf@HIDDEN>
From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
To: Shingo Tanaka <shingo.fg8@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <86v7l2iqal.wl-shingo.fg8@HIDDEN> (message from Shingo Tanaka
 on Sun, 28 Sep 2025 23:51:14 +0900)
Subject: Re: bug#79532: 31.0.50; Imperfect behavior in font setting
References: <87ikh2ygsc.wl-shingo.fg8@HIDDEN> <86seg66arp.fsf@HIDDEN>
 <87h5wmya6r.wl-shingo.fg8@HIDDEN>
 <86jz1i65ky.fsf@HIDDEN> <86v7l2iqal.wl-shingo.fg8@HIDDEN>
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> Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2025 23:51:14 +0900
> From: Shingo Tanaka <shingo.fg8@HIDDEN>
> Cc: Shingo Tanaka <shingo.fg8@HIDDEN>,
> 	79532 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> Question:
> After start up Emacs, when user execute below
> (set-face-attribute 'default nil :font "Noto Sans CJK JP")
> 
> why the text "ºÝÆÁÊ" in hello buffer is shown with "fixed" font
> but not "Noto Sans CJK JP"?

I don't know.  To understand that, one needs to trace the code that
selects a font, and see why it preferred the fixed font.  Fontset
setup for CJK characters is somewhat complex (see fontset.el), and
requires various features of the font, so it's hard to answer this
question for an arbitrary font without actually stepping through the
code and seeing what was attempted, which font features are supported
by that font, etc.
Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#79532; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 79532 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2025 23:51:14 +0900
Message-ID: <86v7l2iqal.wl-shingo.fg8@HIDDEN>
From: Shingo Tanaka <shingo.fg8@HIDDEN>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#79532: 31.0.50; Imperfect behavior in font setting
In-Reply-To: <86jz1i65ky.fsf@HIDDEN>
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Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#79532; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 79532 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2025 16:59:25 +0300
Message-Id: <86jz1i65ky.fsf@HIDDEN>
From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
To: Shingo Tanaka <shingo.fg8@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <87h5wmya6r.wl-shingo.fg8@HIDDEN> (message from Shingo Tanaka
 on Sun, 28 Sep 2025 22:32:28 +0900)
Subject: Re: bug#79532: 31.0.50; Imperfect behavior in font setting
References: <87ikh2ygsc.wl-shingo.fg8@HIDDEN>
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[Please use Reply All to reply, to keep the bug tracker CC'ed.]

> Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2025 22:32:28 +0900
> From: Shingo Tanaka <shingo.fg8@HIDDEN>
> 
> On Sun, 28 Sep 2025 21:07:22 +0900,
> Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> 
> > Maybe your system doesn't have that font in all sizes, so Emacs
> > chooses a font whose size is closer to what is requested?  Note that
> > the original font is of the "fixed" family, which AFAIU means it is a
> > bitmapped font(??).
> > 
> > Why are you certain that Noto Sans CJK should always be used?
> 
> Noto Sans CJK is a vector font, which doesn't have any size limitation.
> The default font maybe ok, but I think if a user explicitly executes:
> (set-face-attribute 'default nil :font "Noto Sans CJK KR")
> Emacs should use it for the 1st place, right?

First, if you did use set-face-attribute like above, your OP didn't
mention it, so I couldn't know you did it.

And second, your assumption is not necessarily correct: Emacs will
only use the default font if it fits the requirements of the
characters it needs to display.  If it doesn't fit, Emacs will consult
the fontsets to find a font that does fit.

> It actually does use it in any font size when the text doesn't have charset
> property, but it doesn't when the text has charset property AND font size is
> small, which is confusing for users.

Why is it confusing?  HELLO uses the charset property to make sure
Emacs selects fonts that users of the charset expect.  In CJK scripts,
there are characters that are identical, which different cultures
expect to see in different shapes, and that is why finding a font for
a character considers also the charset property of the text.

> Current behavior (confusing):
>          | w/o charset prop. | w/charset prop.  |
> ---------+-------------------+------------------+
> Small    | Noto Sans CJK KR  |      Fixed       |
> Big      | Noto Sans CJK KR  | Noto Sans CJK KR |
> 
> Expected behavior (simple):
>          | w/o charset prop. | w/charset prop.  |
> ---------+-------------------+------------------+
> Small    | Noto Sans CJK KR  | Noto Sans CJK KR |
> Big      | Noto Sans CJK KR  | Noto Sans CJK KR |
> 
> Correct me if I am wrong.

See above: you are wrong, at least in principle.  Noto Sans CJK KR
sounds like a font primarily meant for Korean users, so I'm completely
unsurprised that Emacs tries to use a different font for Japanese
text.
Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#79532; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 79532 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2025 15:07:22 +0300
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To: Shingo Tanaka <shingo.fg8@HIDDEN>
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Subject: Re: bug#79532: 31.0.50; Imperfect behavior in font setting
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> Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2025 20:09:55 +0900
> From: Shingo Tanaka <shingo.fg8@HIDDEN>
> 
> CJK fonts in some CJK charsets are somehow set imperfectly in Liunx environment.
> I am wondering if it's expected behavior or not.
> 
> Emacs: 31.0.5
> OS: Ubuntu 24.04
> 
> 1. Run Emacs --no-init-file
> 2. C-h h (`view-hello-file')
> 3. Move cursor onto somewhere "$B%3%s%K%A%O(B" in the Japanese line below.
>    Japanese ($BF|K\8l(B)	$B$3$s$K$A$O(B / $B%3%s%K%A%O(B
> 4. C-u C-x = (`what-cursor-position')
> 5. You will see below fontset line:
>     x:-sony-fixed-medium-r-normal--24-170-100-100-c-120-jisx0201.1976-0 (#xC6)
> 6. Go back to "$B%3%s%K%A%O(B" in HELLO buffer
> 7. C-<wheel-up> (`mouse-wheel-text-scale') up to +5 or larger.
> 8. C-u C-x = (`what-cursor-position') again
> 5. You will see the fontset somewhat changed to below:
>     ftcrhb:-GOOG-Noto Sans CJK KR-regular-normal-normal-*-54-*-*-*-*-0-iso10646-1 (#xE72B)
> 
> Looks like this happens when the text has certain charset property such as
> katakana-jisx0201 or korean-ksc5601, as you can see the same behavior in Korean
> line below that.  Also, the same behavior is observed even when font is
> explicitly set like: (set-face-attribute 'default nil :font "Noto Sans CJK KR")
> But it doesn't occur when there is no charset property.
> 
> I think the expected behavior is that it should be always "Noto Sans CJK KR"
> irrespectively of how much text is scaled.  So looks like it fails to set the
> font correctly.

Maybe your system doesn't have that font in all sizes, so Emacs
chooses a font whose size is closer to what is requested?  Note that
the original font is of the "fixed" family, which AFAIU means it is a
bitmapped font(??).

Why are you certain that Noto Sans CJK should always be used?
Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#79532; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: Shingo Tanaka <shingo.fg8@HIDDEN>
To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
Subject: 31.0.50; Imperfect behavior in font setting
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CJK fonts in some CJK charsets are somehow set imperfectly in Liunx environment.
I am wondering if it's expected behavior or not.

Emacs: 31.0.5
OS: Ubuntu 24.04

1. Run Emacs --no-init-file
2. C-h h (`view-hello-file')
3. Move cursor onto somewhere "$B%3%s%K%A%O(B" in the Japanese line below.
   Japanese ($BF|K\8l(B)	$B$3$s$K$A$O(B / $B%3%s%K%A%O(B
4. C-u C-x = (`what-cursor-position')
5. You will see below fontset line:
    x:-sony-fixed-medium-r-normal--24-170-100-100-c-120-jisx0201.1976-0 (#xC6)
6. Go back to "$B%3%s%K%A%O(B" in HELLO buffer
7. C-<wheel-up> (`mouse-wheel-text-scale') up to +5 or larger.
8. C-u C-x = (`what-cursor-position') again
5. You will see the fontset somewhat changed to below:
    ftcrhb:-GOOG-Noto Sans CJK KR-regular-normal-normal-*-54-*-*-*-*-0-iso10646-1 (#xE72B)

Looks like this happens when the text has certain charset property such as
katakana-jisx0201 or korean-ksc5601, as you can see the same behavior in Korean
line below that.  Also, the same behavior is observed even when font is
explicitly set like: (set-face-attribute 'default nil :font "Noto Sans CJK KR")
But it doesn't occur when there is no charset property.

I think the expected behavior is that it should be always "Noto Sans CJK KR"
irrespectively of how much text is scaled.  So looks like it fails to set the
font correctly.

If you need further information, please let me know.

Regards,
Shingo
Acknowledgement sent to Shingo Tanaka <shingo.fg8@HIDDEN>:
New bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN. Full text available.
Report forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#79532; Package emacs. Full text available.
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