Received: (at 79668) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Nov 2025 20:31:17 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Nov 25 15:31:16 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42285 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1vNzgx-0004Se-RR for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2025 15:31:16 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:42616) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1vMj6K-00034Y-FS for 79668 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 22 Nov 2025 03:36:13 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1vMj5n-0002ec-4p; Sat, 22 Nov 2025 03:35:39 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=pyWelBIgh7L/1ly+0a6IqtXI+KkrM415bImtLnatVX8=; b=BfYyg6vGmhOSO7S1VF2U Ll7uH9u9HGEXe+1OzwEiIwZXhwe1yZ4rCM0OtqzF7FRGCI3D+M8cHCwDgamXLVv5DiTKFCij2m4hW 4Xyzf6BjqFHuhBUg/JXi6Z4xO5qEA+ffwxM3S12sR4HKVrZjRMmx8obEuTS483g3c8tASSBQf1b7V J0D8Jj16TpNBORZMn/zwVReveyeysujMwF5sa1ly+lUOX475amazPtEbjug2XOSvmXfQN2dJ6z2nR VqATK2CKrI0izg0Sgr/TUSII518YmNyvAK3Go5+AdjE5k/JJh/71nSPBLqdzWpNzxrX15iL+rVsrZ UQeEzm3fUueSFw==; Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2025 10:35:25 +0200 Message-Id: <86h5umh3ci.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Robert Pluim <rpluim@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <87qztru4ci.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Robert Pluim on Fri, 21 Nov 2025 10:23:09 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#79668: 30.1; json-serialize rejects strings as object keys References: <87jz0oju7l.fsf@HIDDEN> <864irsvzb6.fsf@HIDDEN> <56A76D85-5316-4917-8D3F-ACBD241BDC03@HIDDEN> <877bwoj8oy.fsf@HIDDEN> <66FE8C53-48DD-4A3E-9676-9D1F9A8C2A13@HIDDEN> <875xc7fgql.fsf@HIDDEN> <974738F2-77F1-4EDB-B667-62DFA2AD1900@HIDDEN> <87tszrdjh9.fsf@HIDDEN> <86tsz47pzv.fsf@HIDDEN> <D6CE90DE-D8A4-4EE0-9D3B-A4CEA71094DE@HIDDEN> <87ldke8aot.fsf@HIDDEN> <86ecq63xkt.fsf@HIDDEN> <87qzu613u9.fsf@HIDDEN> <868qge3wh1.fsf@HIDDEN> <87ms4u11sw.fsf@HIDDEN> <867bvy3rj2.fsf@HIDDEN> <87h5v197j1.fsf@HIDDEN> <44523964-CCD9-4949-804C-BF2BBEE4827C@HIDDEN> <864iqvo3p1.fsf@HIDDEN> <87bjkwvhh8.fsf@HIDDEN> <863468iob7.fsf@HIDDEN> <87qztru4ci.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79668 Cc: p.stephani2@HIDDEN, mattias.engdegard@HIDDEN, nicolas@HIDDEN, 79668 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Robert Pluim <rpluim@HIDDEN> > Cc: mattias.engdegard@HIDDEN, nicolas@HIDDEN, p.stephani2@HIDDEN, > 79668 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2025 10:23:09 +0100 > > >>>>> On Thu, 20 Nov 2025 19:52:44 +0200, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> said: > > >> But it seems that we need to fix the other perceived problems with > >> `json-serialize' before that can happen. > > Eli> Which problems are those? > > The fact that thereʼs no way to control the treatment of duplicate > keys, and that it ends up interning a bunch of symbols. If someone decides to use strings as keys, they should be aware of these consequences, shouldn't they? We could allow this as an opt-in feature, explaining in the doc string of the option what are the possible downsides.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#79668; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 79668) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Nov 2025 20:21:22 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Nov 25 15:21:22 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41794 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1vNzXO-0000tL-8S for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2025 15:21:22 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:40626) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1vMqna-00022z-DU for 79668 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 22 Nov 2025 11:49:23 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1vMqn4-0003OC-36; Sat, 22 Nov 2025 11:48:50 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=4jtufuNgOEGoyG0nW7P/lADrSZPObsHz7aVLxVeKOuE=; b=JAJPom4tNEygEYbivpad biaMFZBiaZX0STq8SDVsQI6LVPxi9U3JrkLaQfeRnzmy5H63RcTFGpcSGFeBWPNcD4Gn2/46+hI4W K2oQOwvl0QduvVGly/r4j1o4MpISf8/rhJdQ0Qq0lJWQcrmDA/o6CHHjLbV6Wkv+PaJJSktvWXZJp McJcE+YGw1lh+yFA9QbuxHZDCfWUybeGjmd3lXSJuKUTECE9OEUnFUG/aLMLJedvw9FToEV+GlnPl aRaJSqbmJV17T7LFbdT4R8p9VT9Luj6WrAUjEX9TPYTUZgXB5pXHmrCDx7VPhnbxqw11ObcqbDUIr I0BMu+1aQUOlqA==; Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2025 18:48:38 +0200 Message-Id: <86wm3idndl.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <87o6ouvx14.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Nicolas Martyanoff on Sat, 22 Nov 2025 17:42:47 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#79668: 30.1; json-serialize rejects strings as object keys References: <87jz0oju7l.fsf@HIDDEN> <877bwoj8oy.fsf@HIDDEN> <66FE8C53-48DD-4A3E-9676-9D1F9A8C2A13@HIDDEN> <875xc7fgql.fsf@HIDDEN> <974738F2-77F1-4EDB-B667-62DFA2AD1900@HIDDEN> <87tszrdjh9.fsf@HIDDEN> <86tsz47pzv.fsf@HIDDEN> <D6CE90DE-D8A4-4EE0-9D3B-A4CEA71094DE@HIDDEN> <87ldke8aot.fsf@HIDDEN> <86ecq63xkt.fsf@HIDDEN> <87qzu613u9.fsf@HIDDEN> <868qge3wh1.fsf@HIDDEN> <87ms4u11sw.fsf@HIDDEN> <867bvy3rj2.fsf@HIDDEN> <87h5v197j1.fsf@HIDDEN> <44523964-CCD9-4949-804C-BF2BBEE4827C@HIDDEN> <864iqvo3p1.fsf@HIDDEN> <87bjkwvhh8.fsf@HIDDEN> <863468iob7.fsf@HIDDEN> <87qztru4ci.fsf@HIDDEN> <86h5umh3ci.fsf@HIDDEN> <87o6ouvx14.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79668 Cc: p.stephani2@HIDDEN, rpluim@HIDDEN, 79668 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, mattias.engdegard@HIDDEN, nicolas@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@HIDDEN> > Cc: Robert Pluim <rpluim@HIDDEN>, mattias.engdegard@HIDDEN, > nicolas@HIDDEN, p.stephani2@HIDDEN, 79668 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2025 17:42:47 +0100 > > Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: > > >> From: Robert Pluim <rpluim@HIDDEN> > >> Cc: mattias.engdegard@HIDDEN, nicolas@HIDDEN, p.stephani2@HIDDEN, > >> 79668 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > >> Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2025 10:23:09 +0100 > >> > >> >>>>> On Thu, 20 Nov 2025 19:52:44 +0200, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> said: > >> > >> >> But it seems that we need to fix the other perceived problems with > >> >> `json-serialize' before that can happen. > >> > >> Eli> Which problems are those? > >> > >> The fact that thereʼs no way to control the treatment of duplicate > >> keys, and that it ends up interning a bunch of symbols. > > > > If someone decides to use strings as keys, they should be aware of > > these consequences, shouldn't they? We could allow this as an opt-in > > feature, explaining in the doc string of the option what are the > > possible downsides. > > So you would be ok with the function supporting strings, with using > strings leading to duplicate key detection being skipped? I believe that > would be perfectly reasonable. That's my opinion, yes, provided that this is by default OFF, and we have a variable allowing it whose doc string explains the potential problems. But I'd like to hear from others as well.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#79668; Package emacs.
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[2a01:cb04:ec9:e600:9786:c4c:71a3:90d6]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ffacd0b85a97d-42cb7fb9022sm17599627f8f.36.2025.11.22.08.42.47 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sat, 22 Nov 2025 08:42:47 -0800 (PST) From: Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@HIDDEN> To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#79668: 30.1; json-serialize rejects strings as object keys In-Reply-To: <86h5umh3ci.fsf@HIDDEN> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 22 Nov 2025 10:35:25 +0200") References: <87jz0oju7l.fsf@HIDDEN> <877bwoj8oy.fsf@HIDDEN> <66FE8C53-48DD-4A3E-9676-9D1F9A8C2A13@HIDDEN> <875xc7fgql.fsf@HIDDEN> <974738F2-77F1-4EDB-B667-62DFA2AD1900@HIDDEN> <87tszrdjh9.fsf@HIDDEN> <86tsz47pzv.fsf@HIDDEN> <D6CE90DE-D8A4-4EE0-9D3B-A4CEA71094DE@HIDDEN> <87ldke8aot.fsf@HIDDEN> <86ecq63xkt.fsf@HIDDEN> <87qzu613u9.fsf@HIDDEN> <868qge3wh1.fsf@HIDDEN> <87ms4u11sw.fsf@HIDDEN> <867bvy3rj2.fsf@HIDDEN> <87h5v197j1.fsf@HIDDEN> <44523964-CCD9-4949-804C-BF2BBEE4827C@HIDDEN> <864iqvo3p1.fsf@HIDDEN> <87bjkwvhh8.fsf@HIDDEN> <863468iob7.fsf@HIDDEN> <87qztru4ci.fsf@HIDDEN> <86h5umh3ci.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2025 17:42:47 +0100 Message-ID: <87o6ouvx14.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79668 Cc: p.stephani2@HIDDEN, Robert Pluim <rpluim@HIDDEN>, 79668 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, mattias.engdegard@HIDDEN, nicolas@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: >> From: Robert Pluim <rpluim@HIDDEN> >> Cc: mattias.engdegard@HIDDEN, nicolas@HIDDEN, p.stephani2@HIDDEN= om, >> 79668 <at> debbugs.gnu.org >> Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2025 10:23:09 +0100 >>=20 >> >>>>> On Thu, 20 Nov 2025 19:52:44 +0200, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> s= aid: >>=20 >> >> But it seems that we need to fix the other perceived problems with >> >> `json-serialize' before that can happen. >>=20 >> Eli> Which problems are those? >>=20 >> The fact that there=CA=BCs no way to control the treatment of duplicate >> keys, and that it ends up interning a bunch of symbols. > > If someone decides to use strings as keys, they should be aware of > these consequences, shouldn't they? We could allow this as an opt-in > feature, explaining in the doc string of the option what are the > possible downsides. So you would be ok with the function supporting strings, with using strings leading to duplicate key detection being skipped? I believe that would be perfectly reasonable. --=20 Nicolas Martyanoff https://n16f.net nicolas@HIDDEN
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From: Robert Pluim <rpluim@HIDDEN>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#79668: 30.1; json-serialize rejects strings as object keys
In-Reply-To: <863468iob7.fsf@HIDDEN>
References: <87jz0oju7l.fsf@HIDDEN> <864irsvzb6.fsf@HIDDEN>
<56A76D85-5316-4917-8D3F-ACBD241BDC03@HIDDEN>
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<87ms4u11sw.fsf@HIDDEN> <867bvy3rj2.fsf@HIDDEN>
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Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2025 10:23:09 +0100
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>>>>> On Thu, 20 Nov 2025 19:52:44 +0200, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> said:
>> But it seems that we need to fix the other perceived problems with
>> `json-serialize' before that can happen.
Eli> Which problems are those?
The fact that there=CA=BCs no way to control the treatment of duplicate
keys, and that it ends up interning a bunch of symbols.
Robert
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bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#79668; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 79668) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Nov 2025 17:52:56 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Nov 20 12:52:56 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49633 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1vM8pz-0001GD-LO for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2025 12:52:55 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:55944) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1vM8px-0001Fa-0L for 79668 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 20 Nov 2025 12:52:53 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1vM8pr-0005Ym-HU; Thu, 20 Nov 2025 12:52:47 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=dYTGdp2PE+2f6ltjrmGpuvcgVyArrMn0fQM7M5LDXYw=; b=nwo9Wd0NhMs298kyEZeW TfGq1/Lrd58bPqkJ2L9RdxuVdQycDGd8S3GyD6R9Co4PeuJhAYdtsk9B4TyTjqnERSN9b9QQ5dlfl rxgOdKy7tF0zC/+WxZe8oyD9B6dWaJ7DzoVOLAoHJi2KeBlxSMAlbg375ZP+U7Q/zNKctNd6as+9/ 3b+2H3vX+pMSSn1XL6xOZWUxehlsCBvy5ExILSu3rWGx6b6HWUUVxmTd5da8cmrj2cvbY5qJyL7Ui 02CL19FSlCys/erQQje9fuK90gbayo/npaCskHGtgQ5So3ND6BgKQV5EPowJ3wkvD5vM/x96e0sqZ HeQK6ltomvHP8Q==; Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2025 19:52:44 +0200 Message-Id: <863468iob7.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Robert Pluim <rpluim@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <87bjkwvhh8.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Robert Pluim on Thu, 20 Nov 2025 16:41:55 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#79668: 30.1; json-serialize rejects strings as object keys References: <87jz0oju7l.fsf@HIDDEN> <868qh4w6fo.fsf@HIDDEN> <87bjm0jg8g.fsf@HIDDEN> <864irsvzb6.fsf@HIDDEN> <56A76D85-5316-4917-8D3F-ACBD241BDC03@HIDDEN> <877bwoj8oy.fsf@HIDDEN> <66FE8C53-48DD-4A3E-9676-9D1F9A8C2A13@HIDDEN> <875xc7fgql.fsf@HIDDEN> <974738F2-77F1-4EDB-B667-62DFA2AD1900@HIDDEN> <87tszrdjh9.fsf@HIDDEN> <86tsz47pzv.fsf@HIDDEN> <D6CE90DE-D8A4-4EE0-9D3B-A4CEA71094DE@HIDDEN> <87ldke8aot.fsf@HIDDEN> <86ecq63xkt.fsf@HIDDEN> <87qzu613u9.fsf@HIDDEN> <868qge3wh1.fsf@HIDDEN> <87ms4u11sw.fsf@HIDDEN> <867bvy3rj2.fsf@HIDDEN> <87h5v197j1.fsf@HIDDEN> <44523964-CCD9-4949-804C-BF2BBEE4827C@HIDDEN> <864iqvo3p1.fsf@HIDDEN> <87bjkwvhh8.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79668 Cc: p.stephani2@HIDDEN, mattias.engdegard@HIDDEN, nicolas@HIDDEN, 79668 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Robert Pluim <rpluim@HIDDEN> > Cc: Mattias Engdegård <mattias.engdegard@HIDDEN>, > nicolas@HIDDEN, > p.stephani2@HIDDEN, 79668 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2025 16:41:55 +0100 > > >>>>> On Sat, 15 Nov 2025 14:55:38 +0200, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> said: > > >> From: Mattias Engdegård <mattias.engdegard@HIDDEN> > >> Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2025 13:39:43 +0100 > >> Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, > >> Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@HIDDEN>, > >> p.stephani2@HIDDEN, > >> 79668 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > >> > >> > Or we could intern `json-serialize' symbols using a non-default > >> > obarray. We then get to decide whether an existing symbol gets > >> > overridden or not, and using strings becomes easy. Obarrays arenʼt > >> > hash tables, but realistically how many symbols are we talking about > >> > in a single call to `json-serialize'? > >> > >> Frankly, I don't see what that would accomplish. > > Eli> It will allow us to support strings as keys, which is what the OP > Eli> requested. Or what am I missing? > > That was the original request, for which I proposed a 2-line patch 4 > weeks ago. > > But it seems that we need to fix the other perceived problems with > `json-serialize' before that can happen. Which problems are those?
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#79668; Package emacs.
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From: Robert Pluim <rpluim@HIDDEN>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#79668: 30.1; json-serialize rejects strings as object keys
In-Reply-To: <864iqvo3p1.fsf@HIDDEN>
References: <87jz0oju7l.fsf@HIDDEN> <868qh4w6fo.fsf@HIDDEN>
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>>>>> On Sat, 15 Nov 2025 14:55:38 +0200, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> said:
>> From: Mattias Engdeg=C3=A5rd <mattias.engdegard@HIDDEN>
>> Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2025 13:39:43 +0100
>> Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>,
>> Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@HIDDEN>,
>> p.stephani2@HIDDEN,
>> 79668 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>>=20
>> > Or we could intern `json-serialize' symbols using a non-default
>> > obarray. We then get to decide whether an existing symbol gets
>> > overridden or not, and using strings becomes easy. Obarrays aren=
=CA=BCt
>> > hash tables, but realistically how many symbols are we talking abo=
ut
>> > in a single call to `json-serialize'?
>>=20
>> Frankly, I don't see what that would accomplish.
Eli> It will allow us to support strings as keys, which is what the OP
Eli> requested. Or what am I missing?
That was the original request, for which I proposed a 2-line patch 4
weeks ago.
But it seems that we need to fix the other perceived problems with
`json-serialize' before that can happen.
Robert
--=20
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#79668; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 79668) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Nov 2025 12:55:49 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Nov 15 07:55:49 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34393 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1vKFoj-0000NM-1L for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 15 Nov 2025 07:55:49 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:51106) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1vKFog-0000NA-CC for 79668 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 15 Nov 2025 07:55:47 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1vKFob-0008N0-0L; Sat, 15 Nov 2025 07:55:41 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=9gnikANSkwVSPrKjrl3+NhfPRDSaYfMkT9G0ndF5G7Q=; b=kJkvbV1xdu1oj3aTwc3u dENZuuvg32f2hstap3aaOEhju0dRJmHAcg5wyQ//gYYwsbqa3V2wrGj4OMc7yMSkJAjudqFSjDFjg BF4vj4ZJjqGx6DnMfrmWwYla+p5X65R/tR9m1+HcBVueWCjgk7aeS1MQiNnudV2i1WWO2Zt/KX6NL U27BEfjmOYccOzfFt3vHsAOd3gDBdJEg3ESvus1nPINzIxPFcY6HFHL6nEVMWet00GBih1dV/BjJ8 CZAxISzN+jvfc4fKNLcwQGu5+RcOmZTbZIHqdjkdjV8WjLflpYGBUxq7qlloqy6mS6o3NUN2AXXeW +25sOTsL4Vw4IA==; Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2025 14:55:38 +0200 Message-Id: <864iqvo3p1.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= <mattias.engdegard@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <44523964-CCD9-4949-804C-BF2BBEE4827C@HIDDEN> (message from Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= on Sat, 15 Nov 2025 13:39:43 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#79668: 30.1; json-serialize rejects strings as object keys References: <87jz0oju7l.fsf@HIDDEN> <86jz0owbs8.fsf@HIDDEN> <87frbcjjm5.fsf@HIDDEN> <868qh4w6fo.fsf@HIDDEN> <87bjm0jg8g.fsf@HIDDEN> <864irsvzb6.fsf@HIDDEN> <56A76D85-5316-4917-8D3F-ACBD241BDC03@HIDDEN> <877bwoj8oy.fsf@HIDDEN> <66FE8C53-48DD-4A3E-9676-9D1F9A8C2A13@HIDDEN> <875xc7fgql.fsf@HIDDEN> <974738F2-77F1-4EDB-B667-62DFA2AD1900@HIDDEN> <87tszrdjh9.fsf@HIDDEN> <86tsz47pzv.fsf@HIDDEN> <D6CE90DE-D8A4-4EE0-9D3B-A4CEA71094DE@HIDDEN> <87ldke8aot.fsf@HIDDEN> <86ecq63xkt.fsf@HIDDEN> <87qzu613u9.fsf@HIDDEN> <868qge3wh1.fsf@HIDDEN> <87ms4u11sw.fsf@HIDDEN> <867bvy3rj2.fsf@HIDDEN> <87h5v197j1.fsf@HIDDEN> <44523964-CCD9-4949-804C-BF2BBEE4827C@HIDDEN> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79668 Cc: p.stephani2@HIDDEN, rpluim@HIDDEN, nicolas@HIDDEN, 79668 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Mattias Engdegård <mattias.engdegard@HIDDEN> > Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2025 13:39:43 +0100 > Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, > Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@HIDDEN>, > p.stephani2@HIDDEN, > 79668 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > > > Or we could intern `json-serialize' symbols using a non-default > > obarray. We then get to decide whether an existing symbol gets > > overridden or not, and using strings becomes easy. Obarrays arenʼt > > hash tables, but realistically how many symbols are we talking about > > in a single call to `json-serialize'? > > Frankly, I don't see what that would accomplish. It will allow us to support strings as keys, which is what the OP requested. Or what am I missing?
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#79668; Package emacs.
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[188.150.186.155]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 38308e7fff4ca-37b9cb7602fsm15194691fa.0.2025.11.15.04.39.44 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 15 Nov 2025 04:39:44 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.15\)) Subject: Re: bug#79668: 30.1; json-serialize rejects strings as object keys From: =?utf-8?Q?Mattias_Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= <mattias.engdegard@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <87h5v197j1.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2025 13:39:43 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <44523964-CCD9-4949-804C-BF2BBEE4827C@HIDDEN> References: <87jz0oju7l.fsf@HIDDEN> <86jz0owbs8.fsf@HIDDEN> <87frbcjjm5.fsf@HIDDEN> <868qh4w6fo.fsf@HIDDEN> <87bjm0jg8g.fsf@HIDDEN> <864irsvzb6.fsf@HIDDEN> <56A76D85-5316-4917-8D3F-ACBD241BDC03@HIDDEN> <877bwoj8oy.fsf@HIDDEN> <66FE8C53-48DD-4A3E-9676-9D1F9A8C2A13@HIDDEN> <875xc7fgql.fsf@HIDDEN> <974738F2-77F1-4EDB-B667-62DFA2AD1900@HIDDEN> <87tszrdjh9.fsf@HIDDEN> <86tsz47pzv.fsf@HIDDEN> <D6CE90DE-D8A4-4EE0-9D3B-A4CEA71094DE@HIDDEN> <87ldke8aot.fsf@HIDDEN> <86ecq63xkt.fsf@HIDDEN> <87qzu613u9.fsf@HIDDEN> <868qge3wh1.fsf@HIDDEN> <87ms4u11sw.fsf@HIDDEN> <867bvy3rj2.fsf@HIDDEN> <87h5v197j1.fsf@HIDDEN> To: Robert Pluim <rpluim@HIDDEN> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.15) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79668 Cc: p.stephani2@HIDDEN, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@HIDDEN>, 79668 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) > Or we could intern `json-serialize' symbols using a non-default > obarray. We then get to decide whether an existing symbol gets > overridden or not, and using strings becomes easy. Obarrays aren=CA=BCt > hash tables, but realistically how many symbols are we talking about > in a single call to `json-serialize'? Frankly, I don't see what that would accomplish.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#79668; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 79668) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Nov 2025 09:45:25 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Nov 15 04:45:24 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33778 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1vKCqS-0006RZ-FW for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 15 Nov 2025 04:45:24 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:53574) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1vKCqQ-0006QR-Ie for 79668 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 15 Nov 2025 04:45:23 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1vKCqK-0004Oj-Qu; Sat, 15 Nov 2025 04:45:17 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=zfokrH+pffrQyuHLFCzf2ecdsbU6MVD9GQArVDqwrbU=; b=nuxmMsNbK1rH3WoU6iKM TjGoTRC4T4wyCVed/7Z9rvoCNW7MZDcxXGZAKAkmPZPORG+yq9niehvkDjboEwRSKo8L+nhai2ev1 CNZbqJONZOHIFXI28RvMiLoIW5HeV+Xu43QHIzAAtI56CZNq03DkO1LnqrKxgExmWny4pMYiEJ9Cf B3iipCiY44YPaS2SObw1cfqF/9RPZXRTBNQHwm+Gt4PFqcrSOLA/65HXE/smm5Q7F2oAhjVZxUf14 Ad+kl1A8fPPrQG3KEa0Y9vh9ziHpWd4qSn8v4AEPlzZMyG7lBENzOKUhNt25YKkwwXkJ9WRCVKZqW isNHJdb/4YT67A==; Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2025 11:45:12 +0200 Message-Id: <86seefocif.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Robert Pluim <rpluim@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <87h5v197j1.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Robert Pluim on Mon, 10 Nov 2025 17:28:18 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#79668: 30.1; json-serialize rejects strings as object keys References: <87jz0oju7l.fsf@HIDDEN> <86jz0owbs8.fsf@HIDDEN> <87frbcjjm5.fsf@HIDDEN> <868qh4w6fo.fsf@HIDDEN> <87bjm0jg8g.fsf@HIDDEN> <864irsvzb6.fsf@HIDDEN> <56A76D85-5316-4917-8D3F-ACBD241BDC03@HIDDEN> <877bwoj8oy.fsf@HIDDEN> <66FE8C53-48DD-4A3E-9676-9D1F9A8C2A13@HIDDEN> <875xc7fgql.fsf@HIDDEN> <974738F2-77F1-4EDB-B667-62DFA2AD1900@HIDDEN> <87tszrdjh9.fsf@HIDDEN> <86tsz47pzv.fsf@HIDDEN> <D6CE90DE-D8A4-4EE0-9D3B-A4CEA71094DE@HIDDEN> <87ldke8aot.fsf@HIDDEN> <86ecq63xkt.fsf@HIDDEN> <87qzu613u9.fsf@HIDDEN> <868qge3wh1.fsf@HIDDEN> <87ms4u11sw.fsf@HIDDEN> <867bvy3rj2.fsf@HIDDEN> <87h5v197j1.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79668 Cc: p.stephani2@HIDDEN, mattias.engdegard@HIDDEN, nicolas@HIDDEN, 79668 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Robert Pluim <rpluim@HIDDEN> > Cc: Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@HIDDEN>, p.stephani2@HIDDEN, > mattias.engdegard@HIDDEN, 79668 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2025 17:28:18 +0100 > > >>>>> On Mon, 10 Nov 2025 16:12:49 +0200, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> said: > > >> From: Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@HIDDEN> > >> Cc: Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@HIDDEN>, rpluim@HIDDEN, > >> p.stephani2@HIDDEN, mattias.engdegard@HIDDEN, > >> 79668 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > >> Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2025 13:59:11 +0100 > >> > >> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: > >> > >> >> I'm puzzled by the > >> >> reimplementation of a hash table just for json.c, especially one so > >> >> limited that only handles symbols. > >> > > >> > I don't think I follow. Symbols are stored using a data structure > >> > that ensures uniqueness, so we didn't need to reimplement anything. > >> > >> json.c has a symset_t type that contains a crude hash table used to > >> detect duplicates just for serialization. The way it is implemented > >> only works for symbols. > > Eli> Ah, okay. That could be a historic accident, since this version of > Eli> json.c was originally developed outside of Emacs. Or maybe it's > Eli> exactly the right thing, I don't know. We are not discussing whether > Eli> the implementation of symbols as keys needs some changes. > > >> >> Another option would be to just iterate on existing keys: it's not > >> >> like objects have hundreds of entries. > >> > > >> > That doesn't scale, so I think we shouldn't be doing it. > >> > >> So we're back to: json.c enforces deduplication for really bad reasons > >> but we cannot change that, doing deduplication would be costly for > >> strings, so we cannot let developers use strings for JSON strings. > > Eli> No, that's not what I said. I said we should not just use the naïve > Eli> brute-force algorithm. Something that uses hash tables should be > Eli> fine, though. > > Or we could intern `json-serialize' symbols using a non-default > obarray. We then get to decide whether an existing symbol gets > overridden or not, and using strings becomes easy. Obarrays arenʼt > hash tables, but realistically how many symbols are we talking about > in a single call to `json-serialize'? Can you show a patch in this direction, making it an opt-in feature? I think we will be able to install that.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#79668; Package emacs.
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From: Robert Pluim <rpluim@HIDDEN>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#79668: 30.1; json-serialize rejects strings as object keys
In-Reply-To: <867bvy3rj2.fsf@HIDDEN>
References: <87jz0oju7l.fsf@HIDDEN> <86jz0owbs8.fsf@HIDDEN>
<87frbcjjm5.fsf@HIDDEN> <868qh4w6fo.fsf@HIDDEN>
<87bjm0jg8g.fsf@HIDDEN> <864irsvzb6.fsf@HIDDEN>
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<875xc7fgql.fsf@HIDDEN>
<974738F2-77F1-4EDB-B667-62DFA2AD1900@HIDDEN>
<87tszrdjh9.fsf@HIDDEN> <86tsz47pzv.fsf@HIDDEN>
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<87ldke8aot.fsf@HIDDEN> <86ecq63xkt.fsf@HIDDEN>
<87qzu613u9.fsf@HIDDEN> <868qge3wh1.fsf@HIDDEN>
<87ms4u11sw.fsf@HIDDEN> <867bvy3rj2.fsf@HIDDEN>
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2025 17:28:18 +0100
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Cc: p.stephani2@HIDDEN, mattias.engdegard@HIDDEN,
Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@HIDDEN>, 79668 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
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>>>>> On Mon, 10 Nov 2025 16:12:49 +0200, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> said:
>> From: Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@HIDDEN>
>> Cc: Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@HIDDEN>, rpluim@HIDDEN,
>> p.stephani2@HIDDEN, mattias.engdegard@HIDDEN,
>> 79668 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>> Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2025 13:59:11 +0100
>>=20
>> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes:
>>=20
>> >> I'm puzzled by the
>> >> reimplementation of a hash table just for json.c, especially one =
so
>> >> limited that only handles symbols.
>> >
>> > I don't think I follow. Symbols are stored using a data structure
>> > that ensures uniqueness, so we didn't need to reimplement anything.
>>=20
>> json.c has a symset_t type that contains a crude hash table used to
>> detect duplicates just for serialization. The way it is implemented
>> only works for symbols.
Eli> Ah, okay. That could be a historic accident, since this version of
Eli> json.c was originally developed outside of Emacs. Or maybe it's
Eli> exactly the right thing, I don't know. We are not discussing whet=
her
Eli> the implementation of symbols as keys needs some changes.
>> >> Another option would be to just iterate on existing keys: it's not
>> >> like objects have hundreds of entries.
>> >
>> > That doesn't scale, so I think we shouldn't be doing it.
>>=20
>> So we're back to: json.c enforces deduplication for really bad reaso=
ns
>> but we cannot change that, doing deduplication would be costly for
>> strings, so we cannot let developers use strings for JSON strings.
Eli> No, that's not what I said. I said we should not just use the na=
=C3=AFve
Eli> brute-force algorithm. Something that uses hash tables should be
Eli> fine, though.
Or we could intern `json-serialize' symbols using a non-default
obarray. We then get to decide whether an existing symbol gets
overridden or not, and using strings becomes easy. Obarrays aren=CA=BCt
hash tables, but realistically how many symbols are we talking about
in a single call to `json-serialize'?
Robert
--=20
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#79668; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 79668) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Nov 2025 14:13:17 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Nov 10 09:13:17 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37825 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1vISdw-0006rN-NM for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2025 09:13:17 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:38948) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1vISds-0006r7-Eg for 79668 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2025 09:13:15 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1vISdk-0001Ws-N3; Mon, 10 Nov 2025 09:13:06 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=tHT40e7/jlvgn312d94bTSSRvs8t9+9D2mitIXIW44k=; b=VB7mUovUF6/znz0XO4Ek tBe78unXB94UkmZWQMxYK4f6paqwgfRDr9qvs36Cn8RzFydbhijL9RTjqmSTla+EMfmP+xJiyCNzd INCX6dNgWXVpRRSp9K5rMOGq+5F2qzmGs71fBdplNHu1qIiZKCWMNpy7dfGJqXzxPh+/8rvSEIKKY sxLxuepB5F2V5JDxA1ok71eM40arbIzh3fL3UeApOGYDW2G5mKdMDXl7Wq2uWAEEv6dPyt/Nq8P+x 6g4aadnzYpTSfshXaLAQv2j1MsR7qPFn6TUukf80V4MwjK2kxiATJklia6pTdSxYRTGeux0CuSyRX VG4rhVxnpnYjwA==; Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2025 16:12:49 +0200 Message-Id: <867bvy3rj2.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <87ms4u11sw.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Nicolas Martyanoff on Mon, 10 Nov 2025 13:59:11 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#79668: 30.1; json-serialize rejects strings as object keys References: <87jz0oju7l.fsf@HIDDEN> <86jz0owbs8.fsf@HIDDEN> <87frbcjjm5.fsf@HIDDEN> <868qh4w6fo.fsf@HIDDEN> <87bjm0jg8g.fsf@HIDDEN> <864irsvzb6.fsf@HIDDEN> <56A76D85-5316-4917-8D3F-ACBD241BDC03@HIDDEN> <877bwoj8oy.fsf@HIDDEN> <66FE8C53-48DD-4A3E-9676-9D1F9A8C2A13@HIDDEN> <875xc7fgql.fsf@HIDDEN> <974738F2-77F1-4EDB-B667-62DFA2AD1900@HIDDEN> <87tszrdjh9.fsf@HIDDEN> <86tsz47pzv.fsf@HIDDEN> <D6CE90DE-D8A4-4EE0-9D3B-A4CEA71094DE@HIDDEN> <87ldke8aot.fsf@HIDDEN> <86ecq63xkt.fsf@HIDDEN> <87qzu613u9.fsf@HIDDEN> <868qge3wh1.fsf@HIDDEN> <87ms4u11sw.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79668 Cc: rpluim@HIDDEN, mattias.engdegard@HIDDEN, p.stephani2@HIDDEN, 79668 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@HIDDEN> > Cc: Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@HIDDEN>, rpluim@HIDDEN, > p.stephani2@HIDDEN, mattias.engdegard@HIDDEN, > 79668 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2025 13:59:11 +0100 > > Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: > > >> I'm puzzled by the > >> reimplementation of a hash table just for json.c, especially one so > >> limited that only handles symbols. > > > > I don't think I follow. Symbols are stored using a data structure > > that ensures uniqueness, so we didn't need to reimplement anything. > > json.c has a symset_t type that contains a crude hash table used to > detect duplicates just for serialization. The way it is implemented > only works for symbols. Ah, okay. That could be a historic accident, since this version of json.c was originally developed outside of Emacs. Or maybe it's exactly the right thing, I don't know. We are not discussing whether the implementation of symbols as keys needs some changes. > >> Another option would be to just iterate on existing keys: it's not > >> like objects have hundreds of entries. > > > > That doesn't scale, so I think we shouldn't be doing it. > > So we're back to: json.c enforces deduplication for really bad reasons > but we cannot change that, doing deduplication would be costly for > strings, so we cannot let developers use strings for JSON strings. No, that's not what I said. I said we should not just use the naïve brute-force algorithm. Something that uses hash tables should be fine, though. > I will skip json.c and go back to the old json Elisp module, or simply > write my own (because JSON-READ forces the string-to-symbol conversion > when using alists for objects instead of hash table; though I imagine I > could send a patch with an option not to convert). I think you are jumping to conclusions too fast, without leaving enough time for people to chime in and voice their opinion and suggest possible solutions. I suggest to wait a bit longer before conclusions, definitely such extreme ones.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#79668; Package emacs.
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[188.150.186.155]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 2adb3069b0e04-5944a0b7616sm3973668e87.58.2025.11.10.05.31.53 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 10 Nov 2025 05:31:54 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.15\)) Subject: Re: bug#79668: 30.1; json-serialize rejects strings as object keys From: =?utf-8?Q?Mattias_Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= <mattias.engdegard@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <877bvzz111.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2025 14:31:53 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <925DA04E-70FB-4523-B2A3-7EAE335F59F4@HIDDEN> References: <87jz0oju7l.fsf@HIDDEN> <86jz0owbs8.fsf@HIDDEN> <87frbcjjm5.fsf@HIDDEN> <868qh4w6fo.fsf@HIDDEN> <87bjm0jg8g.fsf@HIDDEN> <864irsvzb6.fsf@HIDDEN> <56A76D85-5316-4917-8D3F-ACBD241BDC03@HIDDEN> <877bwoj8oy.fsf@HIDDEN> <66FE8C53-48DD-4A3E-9676-9D1F9A8C2A13@HIDDEN> <875xc7fgql.fsf@HIDDEN> <974738F2-77F1-4EDB-B667-62DFA2AD1900@HIDDEN> <87tszrdjh9.fsf@HIDDEN> <86tsz47pzv.fsf@HIDDEN> <877bvzz111.fsf@HIDDEN> To: Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@HIDDEN> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.15) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79668 Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, p.stephani2@HIDDEN, 79668 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) 9 nov. 2025 kl. 16.19 skrev Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@HIDDEN>: > If it helps, here is an almost complete patch that add support for > object strings: Thank you but it's not code that we need, it's the reasons for it. Let's go back to fundamentals. There appears to be (very broadly) two = kinds of JSON objects: - Record-like, whose keys come from a fairly small and mostly-known set - Table-like, whose keys are arbitrary strings, forming a = unique-constrained column or primary key. Record-like objects are usually handled well in elisp with alists or = plists: the objects are small enough that the O(n) look-up doesn't hurt = much, and keys being symbols is useful for meta-programming and fast key = matching. The small set of keys doesn't make symbol interning too = burdensome. Table-like objects are more naturally represented using string-keyed = hash tables. Objects can be large and, as you noted, we don't want to = intern all keys. (Objects with duplicate keys make little sense as arrays would be the = obvious type to use instead, and, as mentioned earlier, interoperability = would be terrible.) The JSON parser takes a single `:object-type` parameter; ideally it = would be a schema, for each object to be deserialised into its desired = type, but that's probably over-engineering it. It's not obvious how best to (de-)serialise elisp `cl-defstruct` objects = without extra boilerplate but I'll leave suggestions about that for = others. What about accepting alists or plists with string keys? I'm not against = it in principle but if we did, key uniqueness should probably be the = user's responsibility. The serialiser would have to use some kind of = hash table which would increase overhead even when the user knew that = the keys were already unique by design. Can you say whether your need for string-keyed [ap]lists is for objects = that are record-like, table-like, both or some other variant? Trivial = maybe, but the taxonomy is useful for understanding. (I realise that the = same object can be table-like to one software layer and record-like to = another.)
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#79668; Package emacs.
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[2a01:cb04:ec9:e600:9786:c4c:71a3:90d6]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ffacd0b85a97d-42abe63e13csm22032026f8f.19.2025.11.10.04.59.11 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 10 Nov 2025 04:59:11 -0800 (PST) From: Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@HIDDEN> To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#79668: 30.1; json-serialize rejects strings as object keys In-Reply-To: <868qge3wh1.fsf@HIDDEN> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 10 Nov 2025 14:26:02 +0200") References: <87jz0oju7l.fsf@HIDDEN> <86jz0owbs8.fsf@HIDDEN> <87frbcjjm5.fsf@HIDDEN> <868qh4w6fo.fsf@HIDDEN> <87bjm0jg8g.fsf@HIDDEN> <864irsvzb6.fsf@HIDDEN> <56A76D85-5316-4917-8D3F-ACBD241BDC03@HIDDEN> <877bwoj8oy.fsf@HIDDEN> <66FE8C53-48DD-4A3E-9676-9D1F9A8C2A13@HIDDEN> <875xc7fgql.fsf@HIDDEN> <974738F2-77F1-4EDB-B667-62DFA2AD1900@HIDDEN> <87tszrdjh9.fsf@HIDDEN> <86tsz47pzv.fsf@HIDDEN> <D6CE90DE-D8A4-4EE0-9D3B-A4CEA71094DE@HIDDEN> <87ldke8aot.fsf@HIDDEN> <86ecq63xkt.fsf@HIDDEN> <87qzu613u9.fsf@HIDDEN> <868qge3wh1.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2025 13:59:11 +0100 Message-ID: <87ms4u11sw.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79668 Cc: p.stephani2@HIDDEN, rpluim@HIDDEN, mattias.engdegard@HIDDEN, Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@HIDDEN>, 79668 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: >> I'm puzzled by the >> reimplementation of a hash table just for json.c, especially one so >> limited that only handles symbols. > > I don't think I follow. Symbols are stored using a data structure > that ensures uniqueness, so we didn't need to reimplement anything. json.c has a symset_t type that contains a crude hash table used to detect duplicates just for serialization. The way it is implemented only works for symbols. >> Another option would be to just iterate on existing keys: it's not >> like objects have hundreds of entries. > > That doesn't scale, so I think we shouldn't be doing it. So we're back to: json.c enforces deduplication for really bad reasons but we cannot change that, doing deduplication would be costly for strings, so we cannot let developers use strings for JSON strings. This forces people to intern symbols that have no business to be interned, but clearly it's not going to change. I will skip json.c and go back to the old json Elisp module, or simply write my own (because JSON-READ forces the string-to-symbol conversion when using alists for objects instead of hash table; though I imagine I could send a patch with an option not to convert). -- Nicolas Martyanoff https://n16f.net nicolas@HIDDEN
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#79668; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 79668) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Nov 2025 12:26:47 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Nov 10 07:26:47 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37616 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1vIQys-0008Mq-Nf for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2025 07:26:47 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:53562) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1vIQyq-0008Mc-6f for 79668 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2025 07:26:44 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1vIQyk-0001hK-Hf; Mon, 10 Nov 2025 07:26:38 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=2BOaP76c3yGmuonmXkYwO7wxsnP9beTQdYuemig1Ry0=; b=HBSWnqumO7Z0 7KeODD0TMTSbVin2YAiIIQU3anm3N/ty+rL9gUhMMCWf1dWxdJAmZgwtKEKS5epsi+RK8MEAHpvTJ vCiB3XY1Qe521O+XseyUAFJnZWw55EvTEuXdqch1Ago4gBhZ5DaD2bzZXbg1iU+TteY1RJOaHdEsh SDXCK9KuM/sr6me5nicJErOn4t1eWkuxvNKUDujm8x5uT3y5JrNoMHehLTCkW6XxXTbDs3UTxM7Uj hcw40BFKPhSFV3AZ8DSVAzdiIrBs+3wJ1Q6tu3k3zC5BBXo7jGXyiWG4y5+yX+ct4YGojlMJ8Z/4M +Om+mMpypqQO4iTYAw+4YQ==; Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2025 14:26:02 +0200 Message-Id: <868qge3wh1.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <87qzu613u9.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Nicolas Martyanoff on Mon, 10 Nov 2025 13:15:10 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#79668: 30.1; json-serialize rejects strings as object keys References: <87jz0oju7l.fsf@HIDDEN> <86jz0owbs8.fsf@HIDDEN> <87frbcjjm5.fsf@HIDDEN> <868qh4w6fo.fsf@HIDDEN> <87bjm0jg8g.fsf@HIDDEN> <864irsvzb6.fsf@HIDDEN> <56A76D85-5316-4917-8D3F-ACBD241BDC03@HIDDEN> <877bwoj8oy.fsf@HIDDEN> <66FE8C53-48DD-4A3E-9676-9D1F9A8C2A13@HIDDEN> <875xc7fgql.fsf@HIDDEN> <974738F2-77F1-4EDB-B667-62DFA2AD1900@HIDDEN> <87tszrdjh9.fsf@HIDDEN> <86tsz47pzv.fsf@HIDDEN> <D6CE90DE-D8A4-4EE0-9D3B-A4CEA71094DE@HIDDEN> <87ldke8aot.fsf@HIDDEN> <86ecq63xkt.fsf@HIDDEN> <87qzu613u9.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79668 Cc: rpluim@HIDDEN, mattias.engdegard@HIDDEN, p.stephani2@HIDDEN, 79668 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@HIDDEN> > Cc: Robert Pluim <rpluim@HIDDEN>, p.stephani2@HIDDEN, > mattias.engdegard@HIDDEN, nicolas@HIDDEN, 79668 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2025 13:15:10 +0100 > > Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: > > > How do we ensure uniqueness if we allow strings? > > I do not know enough about Emacs' C internals to be sure, but there has > to be an internal API for simple hash tables? Emacs Lisp has hash tables, if that's what you mean. > I'm puzzled by the > reimplementation of a hash table just for json.c, especially one so > limited that only handles symbols. I don't think I follow. Symbols are stored using a data structure that ensures uniqueness, so we didn't need to reimplement anything. > Another option would be to just iterate on existing keys: it's not > like objects have hundreds of entries. That doesn't scale, so I think we shouldn't be doing it.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#79668; Package emacs.
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[2a01:cb04:ec9:e600:9786:c4c:71a3:90d6]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 5b1f17b1804b1-4775cdcc528sm325300055e9.7.2025.11.10.04.15.10 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 10 Nov 2025 04:15:10 -0800 (PST) From: Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@HIDDEN> To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#79668: 30.1; json-serialize rejects strings as object keys In-Reply-To: <86ecq63xkt.fsf@HIDDEN> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 10 Nov 2025 14:02:10 +0200") References: <87jz0oju7l.fsf@HIDDEN> <86jz0owbs8.fsf@HIDDEN> <87frbcjjm5.fsf@HIDDEN> <868qh4w6fo.fsf@HIDDEN> <87bjm0jg8g.fsf@HIDDEN> <864irsvzb6.fsf@HIDDEN> <56A76D85-5316-4917-8D3F-ACBD241BDC03@HIDDEN> <877bwoj8oy.fsf@HIDDEN> <66FE8C53-48DD-4A3E-9676-9D1F9A8C2A13@HIDDEN> <875xc7fgql.fsf@HIDDEN> <974738F2-77F1-4EDB-B667-62DFA2AD1900@HIDDEN> <87tszrdjh9.fsf@HIDDEN> <86tsz47pzv.fsf@HIDDEN> <D6CE90DE-D8A4-4EE0-9D3B-A4CEA71094DE@HIDDEN> <87ldke8aot.fsf@HIDDEN> <86ecq63xkt.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2025 13:15:10 +0100 Message-ID: <87qzu613u9.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79668 Cc: Robert Pluim <rpluim@HIDDEN>, 79668 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, mattias.engdegard@HIDDEN, p.stephani2@HIDDEN, nicolas@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: > How do we ensure uniqueness if we allow strings? I do not know enough about Emacs' C internals to be sure, but there has to be an internal API for simple hash tables? I'm puzzled by the reimplementation of a hash table just for json.c, especially one so limited that only handles symbols. Another option would be to just iterate on existing keys: it's not like objects have hundreds of entries. -- Nicolas Martyanoff https://n16f.net nicolas@HIDDEN
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#79668; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 79668) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Nov 2025 12:02:36 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Mon Nov 10 07:02:36 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37549 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1vIQbT-0007Lc-Tf for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2025 07:02:36 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:51972) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1vIQbQ-0007LA-Ig for 79668 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 10 Nov 2025 07:02:33 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1vIQbI-00052w-QQ; Mon, 10 Nov 2025 07:02:25 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=FQPmQFcY6KL+spz5zkvtqIiEYNe1DRfqse09ENHfHkI=; b=g4Q6se86qHpVgZR1WeD/ LF8wsJj3P6reNxAE7GxFx1oRaof03ekWWRPfnlgSiyXj6FrHdbPOdV89roucUSs1fDMJxISWL96op doD4qUU1CjZyCZesFen/CHKdel1JByBozb+oz9apMJ5gCE10ePKJ7c8MI8zOJD2WYFtGarI5n0iBN pZr2ucukhR5LpIMEjEzJOkN/xXK2vtkieOlRLc07F/FCB/kUsTIITDQRsqWzYqDswDBY/qGLbo2kM 2xyJNKn92ENDFv5vS4JGpVbD1Dapb+izvZJVxCAYiOZSDgJeMa7y/p5XEUspe5Ik+yS04iGJGToG7 aHfNGZIDdGdrKA==; Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2025 14:02:10 +0200 Message-Id: <86ecq63xkt.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Robert Pluim <rpluim@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <87ldke8aot.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Robert Pluim on Mon, 10 Nov 2025 11:05:22 +0100) Subject: Re: bug#79668: 30.1; json-serialize rejects strings as object keys References: <87jz0oju7l.fsf@HIDDEN> <86jz0owbs8.fsf@HIDDEN> <87frbcjjm5.fsf@HIDDEN> <868qh4w6fo.fsf@HIDDEN> <87bjm0jg8g.fsf@HIDDEN> <864irsvzb6.fsf@HIDDEN> <56A76D85-5316-4917-8D3F-ACBD241BDC03@HIDDEN> <877bwoj8oy.fsf@HIDDEN> <66FE8C53-48DD-4A3E-9676-9D1F9A8C2A13@HIDDEN> <875xc7fgql.fsf@HIDDEN> <974738F2-77F1-4EDB-B667-62DFA2AD1900@HIDDEN> <87tszrdjh9.fsf@HIDDEN> <86tsz47pzv.fsf@HIDDEN> <D6CE90DE-D8A4-4EE0-9D3B-A4CEA71094DE@HIDDEN> <87ldke8aot.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79668 Cc: p.stephani2@HIDDEN, 79668 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, mattias.engdegard@HIDDEN, nicolas@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Robert Pluim <rpluim@HIDDEN> > Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, mattias.engdegard@HIDDEN, Nicolas > Martyanoff <nicolas@HIDDEN>, 79668 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2025 11:05:22 +0100 > > >>>>> On Sun, 9 Nov 2025 22:45:56 +0100, Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN> said: > > >> Am 08.11.2025 um 11:55 schrieb Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>: > >> Philipp, could you please tell why we insist on rejecting strings as > >> object keys in JSON serialization? > > Philipp> I don't remember and can't think of a strong reason right > Philipp> now. There are good reasons for rejecting duplicate keys > Philipp> independent of key type (at least by default), see > Philipp> e.g. the reasoning given for introducing uniqueness > Philipp> checks in the Go JSON API > Philipp> (https://go.dev/blog/jsonv2-exp#behavior-flaws): > > Philipp> • encoding/json currently accepts objects with duplicate member > Philipp> names. RFC 8259 does not specify how to handle duplicate names, so an > Philipp> implementation is free to choose an arbitrary value, merge the values, > Philipp> discard the values, or report an error. The presence of a duplicate > Philipp> name results in a JSON value without a universally agreed upon > Philipp> meaning. This could be exploited by attackers in security applications > Philipp> and has been exploited before (as in CVE-2017-12635). The default > Philipp> behavior should err on the side of safety and reject duplicate names. > > So letʼs allow strings, keep the default duplicate behaviour as it is, > and add a variable (not a defcustom) to allow other treatments. How do we ensure uniqueness if we allow strings?
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#79668; Package emacs.
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From: Robert Pluim <rpluim@HIDDEN>
To: Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#79668: 30.1; json-serialize rejects strings as object keys
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>>>>> On Sun, 9 Nov 2025 22:45:56 +0100, Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@gmai=
l.com> said:
>> Am 08.11.2025 um 11:55 schrieb Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>:
>> Philipp, could you please tell why we insist on rejecting strings as
>> object keys in JSON serialization?
Philipp> I don't remember and can't think of a strong reason right
Philipp> now. There are good reasons for rejecting duplicate keys
Philipp> independent of key type (at least by default), see
Philipp> e.g. the reasoning given for introducing uniqueness
Philipp> checks in the Go JSON API
Philipp> (https://go.dev/blog/jsonv2-exp#behavior-flaws):
Philipp> =E2=80=A2 encoding/json currently accepts objects with dup=
licate member
Philipp> names. RFC 8259 does not specify how to handle duplicate names=
, so an
Philipp> implementation is free to choose an arbitrary value, merge the=
values,
Philipp> discard the values, or report an error. The presence of a dupl=
icate
Philipp> name results in a JSON value without a universally agreed upon
Philipp> meaning. This could be exploited by attackers in security appl=
ications
Philipp> and has been exploited before (as in CVE-2017-12635). The defa=
ult
Philipp> behavior should err on the side of safety and reject duplicate=
names.
So let=CA=BCs allow strings, keep the default duplicate behaviour as it is,
and add a variable (not a defcustom) to allow other treatments.
Robert
--=20
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#79668; Package emacs.
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Subject: Re: bug#79668: 30.1; json-serialize rejects strings as object keys
From: Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN>
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> Am 08.11.2025 um 11:55 schrieb Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>:
>=20
>> From: Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@HIDDEN>
>> Cc: Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii =
<eliz@HIDDEN>,
>> 79668 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN>
>> Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2025 17:49:54 +0200
>>=20
>> Mattias Engdeg=C3=A5rd <mattias.engdegard@HIDDEN> writes:
>>=20
>>> 22 okt. 2025 kl. 11.06 skrev Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@HIDDEN>:
>>>=20
>>>>> Well if you have special requirements that go a bit outside the =
agreed
>>>>> JSON standard then I'm afraid you are on your own.
>>>> It is not outside the agreed JSON standard.
>>>=20
>>> You misunderstand. It isn't just RFC 8259 but how it is being =
interpreted in practice. JSON-based protocols rarely if ever rely on =
duplicated object keys because JSON codecs cannot be relied on handling =
them properly.
>>>=20
>>> Now it could be that we are wrong about this and there are in fact =
significant JSON protocols where duplicated keys are of importance, but =
then you need to show us some.
>>>=20
>>> Adding an option for disabling uniqueness checks (and accepting =
string keys in alists, these issues are linked) wouldn't be impossible =
but as you understand, we can't just do that on your say-so. We'd want =
to see a clear need for it.
>>=20
>> I am just mentioning the topic just to see if Emacs maintainers might =
be
>> open to a patch. If not, I'll simply go write my own =
parser/serializer
>> to have correct behaviour by default, as I should have done from the
>> very beginning.
>=20
> Philipp, could you please tell why we insist on rejecting strings as
> object keys in JSON serialization?
I don't remember and can't think of a strong reason right now.
There are good reasons for rejecting duplicate keys independent of key =
type (at least by default), see e.g. the reasoning given for introducing =
uniqueness checks in the Go JSON API =
(https://go.dev/blog/jsonv2-exp#behavior-flaws):
=E2=80=A2 encoding/json currently accepts objects with duplicate =
member names. RFC 8259 does not specify how to handle duplicate names, =
so an implementation is free to choose an arbitrary value, merge the =
values, discard the values, or report an error. The presence of a =
duplicate name results in a JSON value without a universally agreed upon =
meaning. This could be exploited by attackers in security applications =
and has been exploited before (as in CVE-2017-12635). The default =
behavior should err on the side of safety and reject duplicate names.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#79668; Package emacs.
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[2a01:cb04:ec9:e600:9786:c4c:71a3:90d6]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 5b1f17b1804b1-4776d39c8f8sm146014495e9.3.2025.11.09.07.19.39 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 09 Nov 2025 07:19:39 -0800 (PST) From: Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@HIDDEN> To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#79668: 30.1; json-serialize rejects strings as object keys In-Reply-To: <86tsz47pzv.fsf@HIDDEN> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 08 Nov 2025 12:55:32 +0200") References: <87jz0oju7l.fsf@HIDDEN> <86jz0owbs8.fsf@HIDDEN> <87frbcjjm5.fsf@HIDDEN> <868qh4w6fo.fsf@HIDDEN> <87bjm0jg8g.fsf@HIDDEN> <864irsvzb6.fsf@HIDDEN> <56A76D85-5316-4917-8D3F-ACBD241BDC03@HIDDEN> <877bwoj8oy.fsf@HIDDEN> <66FE8C53-48DD-4A3E-9676-9D1F9A8C2A13@HIDDEN> <875xc7fgql.fsf@HIDDEN> <974738F2-77F1-4EDB-B667-62DFA2AD1900@HIDDEN> <87tszrdjh9.fsf@HIDDEN> <86tsz47pzv.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2025 16:19:38 +0100 Message-ID: <877bvzz111.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79668 Cc: p.stephani2@HIDDEN, mattias.engdegard@HIDDEN, Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@HIDDEN>, 79668 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: > Philipp, could you please tell why we insist on rejecting strings as > object keys in JSON serialization? If it helps, here is an almost complete patch that add support for object strings: https://github.com/galdor/emacs/commit/5a89d20db6e54e83036b1beb174c442acd0744ea The only problem I have is with symset_hash is that only works for symbols. It is really strange that the serializer would have extra code to enforce key unicity when this is not a JSON requirement (decoder behaviour for duplicate keys is implementation defined, so the user should absolutely be able to emit duplicate keys), but it is what it is. I'm not sure having a hash table reimplemented just for this module makes sense, but again I have no experience with the C parts of Emacs. If someone gives me a hint on how to make symset_t work for both symbol and string objects, I'll happily add tests and submit the patch. Best, -- Nicolas Martyanoff https://n16f.net nicolas@HIDDEN
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#79668; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 79668) by debbugs.gnu.org; 8 Nov 2025 10:55:45 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sat Nov 08 05:55:45 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50981 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1vHgbg-0002Y8-Qv for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Nov 2025 05:55:45 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:54068) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1vHgbe-0002Xy-3E for 79668 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 08 Nov 2025 05:55:43 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1vHgbY-00018h-4R; Sat, 08 Nov 2025 05:55:36 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=twVEPwHx/C0SK1ntft1hHd4GUvAZDvwTVu/txwdcm8o=; b=giRyJCKQc/uogyKsTSIG vm4n3oQxIUB5CRWlMIRK1e39OvgXo+kLURy2IB26ImPVIAk7v/1JHXiCcOhAH7K2SZotBJUCfoVN7 qCwQ7CQQoV7qWnNnlGpZIoZW+ssID3AE7l4SnJKyjCE6gcsAiqAcpivRLtCswVloZkOqQVv+zF5/M YREcVdT/oPWFHns6s5mL4ZaBTNK1uKWp1JiDIoufO2fULV9DqvEvDSFWD3YgD04Rs4euI6NUt8AVK vepKBpc8iG4/qJ8wTBTM8vbkmIQzHKZsvFF/u5Qj0s0Ke8zvZVIXfhAsddH2xyC/L3JENjOgoKRvp WnU9ETqA47mhAw==; Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2025 12:55:32 +0200 Message-Id: <86tsz47pzv.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@HIDDEN>, p.stephani2@HIDDEN In-Reply-To: <87tszrdjh9.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Nicolas Martyanoff on Wed, 22 Oct 2025 17:49:54 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#79668: 30.1; json-serialize rejects strings as object keys References: <87jz0oju7l.fsf@HIDDEN> <86jz0owbs8.fsf@HIDDEN> <87frbcjjm5.fsf@HIDDEN> <868qh4w6fo.fsf@HIDDEN> <87bjm0jg8g.fsf@HIDDEN> <864irsvzb6.fsf@HIDDEN> <56A76D85-5316-4917-8D3F-ACBD241BDC03@HIDDEN> <877bwoj8oy.fsf@HIDDEN> <66FE8C53-48DD-4A3E-9676-9D1F9A8C2A13@HIDDEN> <875xc7fgql.fsf@HIDDEN> <974738F2-77F1-4EDB-B667-62DFA2AD1900@HIDDEN> <87tszrdjh9.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79668 Cc: mattias.engdegard@HIDDEN, nicolas@HIDDEN, 79668 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@HIDDEN> > Cc: Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, > 79668 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN> > Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2025 17:49:54 +0200 > > Mattias Engdegård <mattias.engdegard@HIDDEN> writes: > > > 22 okt. 2025 kl. 11.06 skrev Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@HIDDEN>: > > > >>> Well if you have special requirements that go a bit outside the agreed > >>> JSON standard then I'm afraid you are on your own. > >> It is not outside the agreed JSON standard. > > > > You misunderstand. It isn't just RFC 8259 but how it is being interpreted in practice. JSON-based protocols rarely if ever rely on duplicated object keys because JSON codecs cannot be relied on handling them properly. > > > > Now it could be that we are wrong about this and there are in fact significant JSON protocols where duplicated keys are of importance, but then you need to show us some. > > > > Adding an option for disabling uniqueness checks (and accepting string keys in alists, these issues are linked) wouldn't be impossible but as you understand, we can't just do that on your say-so. We'd want to see a clear need for it. > > I am just mentioning the topic just to see if Emacs maintainers might be > open to a patch. If not, I'll simply go write my own parser/serializer > to have correct behaviour by default, as I should have done from the > very beginning. Philipp, could you please tell why we insist on rejecting strings as object keys in JSON serialization?
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#79668; Package emacs.
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From: Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@HIDDEN>
To: Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= <mattias.engdegard@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#79668: 30.1; json-serialize rejects strings as object keys
In-Reply-To: <974738F2-77F1-4EDB-B667-62DFA2AD1900@HIDDEN> ("Mattias
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Mattias Engdeg=C3=A5rd <mattias.engdegard@HIDDEN> writes:
> 22 okt. 2025 kl. 11.06 skrev Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@HIDDEN>:
>
>>> Well if you have special requirements that go a bit outside the agreed
>>> JSON standard then I'm afraid you are on your own.
>> It is not outside the agreed JSON standard.
>
> You misunderstand. It isn't just RFC 8259 but how it is being interpreted=
in practice. JSON-based protocols rarely if ever rely on duplicated object=
keys because JSON codecs cannot be relied on handling them properly.
>
> Now it could be that we are wrong about this and there are in fact signif=
icant JSON protocols where duplicated keys are of importance, but then you =
need to show us some.
>
> Adding an option for disabling uniqueness checks (and accepting string ke=
ys in alists, these issues are linked) wouldn't be impossible but as you un=
derstand, we can't just do that on your say-so. We'd want to see a clear ne=
ed for it.
I am just mentioning the topic just to see if Emacs maintainers might be
open to a patch. If not, I'll simply go write my own parser/serializer
to have correct behaviour by default, as I should have done from the
very beginning.
--=20
Nicolas Martyanoff
https://n16f.net
nicolas@HIDDEN
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#79668; Package emacs.
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[188.150.186.155]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 2adb3069b0e04-591def268casm4762029e87.104.2025.10.22.08.43.06 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 22 Oct 2025 08:43:06 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.15\)) Subject: Re: bug#79668: 30.1; json-serialize rejects strings as object keys From: =?utf-8?Q?Mattias_Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= <mattias.engdegard@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <875xc7fgql.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2025 17:43:05 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <974738F2-77F1-4EDB-B667-62DFA2AD1900@HIDDEN> References: <87jz0oju7l.fsf@HIDDEN> <86jz0owbs8.fsf@HIDDEN> <87frbcjjm5.fsf@HIDDEN> <868qh4w6fo.fsf@HIDDEN> <87bjm0jg8g.fsf@HIDDEN> <864irsvzb6.fsf@HIDDEN> <56A76D85-5316-4917-8D3F-ACBD241BDC03@HIDDEN> <877bwoj8oy.fsf@HIDDEN> <66FE8C53-48DD-4A3E-9676-9D1F9A8C2A13@HIDDEN> <875xc7fgql.fsf@HIDDEN> To: Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@HIDDEN> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.15) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79668 Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN>, 79668 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) 22 okt. 2025 kl. 11.06 skrev Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@HIDDEN>: >> Well if you have special requirements that go a bit outside the = agreed >> JSON standard then I'm afraid you are on your own. > It is not outside the agreed JSON standard. You misunderstand. It isn't just RFC 8259 but how it is being = interpreted in practice. JSON-based protocols rarely if ever rely on = duplicated object keys because JSON codecs cannot be relied on handling = them properly. Now it could be that we are wrong about this and there are in fact = significant JSON protocols where duplicated keys are of importance, but = then you need to show us some. Adding an option for disabling uniqueness checks (and accepting string = keys in alists, these issues are linked) wouldn't be impossible but as = you understand, we can't just do that on your say-so. We'd want to see a = clear need for it.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#79668; Package emacs.
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From: Robert Pluim <rpluim@HIDDEN>
To: Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#79668: 30.1; json-serialize rejects strings as object keys
In-Reply-To: <875xc7fgql.fsf@HIDDEN>
References: <87jz0oju7l.fsf@HIDDEN> <86jz0owbs8.fsf@HIDDEN>
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Cc: Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= <mattias.engdegard@HIDDEN>,
Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN>,
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>>>>> On Wed, 22 Oct 2025 11:06:10 +0200, Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@n16f.=
net> said:
>> The uniqueness check has been there since the API was introduced; if
>> we dropped it, there is a risk that code relying on it would misbeha=
ve
>> or leak information.
Nicolas> This is what options are for. But my points was not that it sh=
ould be
Nicolas> changed, it was that there was no reason not to accept strings=
as object
Nicolas> keys for serialization. If it impacts performances because of =
this
Nicolas> check, that's on the developer who decided to use strings (as =
it should
Nicolas> be).
The current behaviour is "first symbol wins". I can see people wanting
one of
- first symbol wins
- last symbol wins
- produce duplicate entries
Allowing strings as keys doesn=CA=BCt seem like too much of a
burden. Although we could add a user option for that as well.
Robert
--=20
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#79668; Package emacs.
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From: Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@HIDDEN>
To: Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= <mattias.engdegard@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#79668: 30.1; json-serialize rejects strings as object keys
In-Reply-To: <66FE8C53-48DD-4A3E-9676-9D1F9A8C2A13@HIDDEN> ("Mattias
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Cc: Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>,
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Mattias Engdeg=C3=A5rd <mattias.engdegard@HIDDEN> writes:
> 21 okt. 2025 kl. 22.34 skrev Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@HIDDEN>:
>
>> The fact that the JSON parser produces symbols by default is another
>> problem on its own.
>
> The JSON parser produces hash tables with string keys by default.
Hash tables yes. But with alists, it produces symbols:
ELISP> (json-parse-string "{\"a\":1}" :object-type 'alist)
((a . 1))
Which is inconsistent (and a bad idea). Obviously this cannot change
because backward compatibility, but it would not be ridiculous to have
an :object-key-type key argument.
>> I really would not want a JSON serializer to enforce object key
>> uniqueness for me
>
> Well if you have special requirements that go a bit outside the agreed
> JSON standard then I'm afraid you are on your own.
It is not outside the agreed JSON standard.
As per RFC 8259 section 4, "When the names within an object are not
unique, the behavior of software that receives such an object is
unpredictable". The rest of the section is very clear: behaviour is
implementation defined, not invalid.
> The uniqueness check has been there since the API was introduced; if
> we dropped it, there is a risk that code relying on it would misbehave
> or leak information.
This is what options are for. But my points was not that it should be
changed, it was that there was no reason not to accept strings as object
keys for serialization. If it impacts performances because of this
check, that's on the developer who decided to use strings (as it should
be).
--=20
Nicolas Martyanoff
https://n16f.net
nicolas@HIDDEN
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#79668; Package emacs.
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[188.150.186.155]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 38308e7fff4ca-377a9508590sm37193261fa.31.2025.10.22.01.48.48 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 22 Oct 2025 01:48:49 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.15\)) Subject: Re: bug#79668: 30.1; json-serialize rejects strings as object keys From: =?utf-8?Q?Mattias_Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= <mattias.engdegard@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <877bwoj8oy.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2025 10:48:48 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <66FE8C53-48DD-4A3E-9676-9D1F9A8C2A13@HIDDEN> References: <87jz0oju7l.fsf@HIDDEN> <86jz0owbs8.fsf@HIDDEN> <87frbcjjm5.fsf@HIDDEN> <868qh4w6fo.fsf@HIDDEN> <87bjm0jg8g.fsf@HIDDEN> <864irsvzb6.fsf@HIDDEN> <56A76D85-5316-4917-8D3F-ACBD241BDC03@HIDDEN> <877bwoj8oy.fsf@HIDDEN> To: Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@HIDDEN> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.15) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79668 Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN>, 79668 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) 21 okt. 2025 kl. 22.34 skrev Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@HIDDEN>: > The fact that the JSON parser produces symbols by default is another > problem on its own. The JSON parser produces hash tables with string keys by default. > I really would not want a JSON serializer to enforce object key > uniqueness for me Well if you have special requirements that go a bit outside the agreed = JSON standard then I'm afraid you are on your own. The uniqueness check = has been there since the API was introduced; if we dropped it, there is = a risk that code relying on it would misbehave or leak information.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#79668; Package emacs.
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From: Robert Pluim <rpluim@HIDDEN>
To: Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#79668: 30.1; json-serialize rejects strings as object keys
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>>>>> On Tue, 21 Oct 2025 22:34:05 +0200, Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@n16f.=
net> said:
Nicolas> I really would not want a JSON serializer to enforce object key
Nicolas> uniqueness for me: it is not absurd to think you may end up in=
a
Nicolas> situation where you absolutely need to send duplicate keys, ei=
ther for
Nicolas> an a badly designed API (I had to do much worse than that in t=
he past=E2=80=A6),
Nicolas> or because you're actually testing that an API handles it corr=
ectly.
Nicolas> Now if it happens to be the case, this is the way it is (at le=
ast until
Nicolas> someone add an option to disable it), but in that case the use=
r is
Nicolas> responsible for providing either symbols or strings, meaning t=
hat he is
Nicolas> responsible for the impact on performances.
Nicolas> In my current situation, I really don't want to intern dozens =
of symbols
Nicolas> that have no meaning beyond the API protocol, especially with =
their ugly
Nicolas> underscores in the middle.
That means we=CA=BCd need something more complicated than my initial
thought for fixing this, which is:
diff --git a/src/json.c b/src/json.c
index 30a22dc8038..94203899660 100644
--- a/src/json.c
+++ b/src/json.c
@@ -443,6 +443,8 @@ json_out_object_cons (json_out_t *jo, Lisp_Object obj)
CHECK_CONS (tail);
value =3D XCAR (tail);
}
+ if (STRINGP (key))
+ key =3D Fintern (key, Qnil);
key =3D maybe_remove_pos_from_symbol (key);
CHECK_TYPE (BARE_SYMBOL_P (key), Qsymbolp, key);
=20
Robert
--=20
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#79668; Package emacs.
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From: Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@HIDDEN>
To: Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= <mattias.engdegard@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#79668: 30.1; json-serialize rejects strings as object keys
In-Reply-To: <56A76D85-5316-4917-8D3F-ACBD241BDC03@HIDDEN> ("Mattias
=?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd=22's?= message of "Tue, 21 Oct 2025 21:49:03
+0200")
References: <87jz0oju7l.fsf@HIDDEN> <86jz0owbs8.fsf@HIDDEN>
<87frbcjjm5.fsf@HIDDEN> <868qh4w6fo.fsf@HIDDEN>
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Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2025 22:34:05 +0200
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Cc: Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>,
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Mattias Engdeg=C3=A5rd <mattias.engdegard@HIDDEN> writes:
> I'm just speculating here (and Philipp will correct me) but it could
> be to enforce the same type scheme that is used by the JSON
> deserialiser, which presumably used symbols for keys because it's felt
> as more convenient for the user.
The fact that the JSON parser produces symbols by default is another
problem on its own. It is a well known issue in other languages (e.g.
Ruby, Erlang); you do not want to intern all symbols coming from a
server you do not control.
I was actually thinking about writing a patch to add an option so that
the parser produces string instead (which would not change the defaults,
for those who prefer it that way).
> There's one small implementation advantage in insisting on symbols:
> `json-serialize` gets away with a cheaper uniqueness check by assuming
> that keys are same iff they are `eq`, which is true for interned
> symbols. (Yes, you can defeat it by using uninterned symbols.)
>
> It's not clear that this key uniqueness check is very useful but the
> old implementation had it so I felt I had to include something
> similar. After all, an alist can be amended by consing a new entry at
> the front which overrides the old value and you wouldn't want that old
> value to leak out to another process. However, it really should be the
> caller's responsibility not to serialise object with duplicate keys,
> though.
I really would not want a JSON serializer to enforce object key
uniqueness for me: it is not absurd to think you may end up in a
situation where you absolutely need to send duplicate keys, either for
an a badly designed API (I had to do much worse than that in the past=E2=80=
=A6),
or because you're actually testing that an API handles it correctly.
Now if it happens to be the case, this is the way it is (at least until
someone add an option to disable it), but in that case the user is
responsible for providing either symbols or strings, meaning that he is
responsible for the impact on performances.
In my current situation, I really don't want to intern dozens of symbols
that have no meaning beyond the API protocol, especially with their ugly
underscores in the middle.
--=20
Nicolas Martyanoff
https://n16f.net
nicolas@HIDDEN
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#79668; Package emacs.
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[188.150.186.155]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 38308e7fff4ca-377a95789f1sm31291481fa.41.2025.10.21.12.49.04 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 21 Oct 2025 12:49:05 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.15\)) Subject: Re: bug#79668: 30.1; json-serialize rejects strings as object keys From: =?utf-8?Q?Mattias_Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= <mattias.engdegard@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <864irsvzb6.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2025 21:49:03 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <56A76D85-5316-4917-8D3F-ACBD241BDC03@HIDDEN> References: <87jz0oju7l.fsf@HIDDEN> <86jz0owbs8.fsf@HIDDEN> <87frbcjjm5.fsf@HIDDEN> <868qh4w6fo.fsf@HIDDEN> <87bjm0jg8g.fsf@HIDDEN> <864irsvzb6.fsf@HIDDEN> To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.15) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79668 Cc: Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN>, Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@HIDDEN>, 79668 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) 21 okt. 2025 kl. 21.18 skrev Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>: > From: Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@HIDDEN> >> I'm puzzled, in which world does it make any sense _not_ to handle >> strings for JSON object keys which _are_ strings? The exact reason why the JSON serialiser doesn't accept strings as keys = in alists and plists isn't entirely known to me -- I just made it = compatible with the previous, libjansson based encoder/decoder. Maybe = Philipp remembers? I'm just speculating here (and Philipp will correct me) but it could be = to enforce the same type scheme that is used by the JSON deserialiser, = which presumably used symbols for keys because it's felt as more = convenient for the user. On the other hand the old elisp implementation, `json-encode`, accepts = any mix of strings, symbols and keywords. There's one small implementation advantage in insisting on symbols: = `json-serialize` gets away with a cheaper uniqueness check by assuming = that keys are same iff they are `eq`, which is true for interned = symbols. (Yes, you can defeat it by using uninterned symbols.) It's not clear that this key uniqueness check is very useful but the old = implementation had it so I felt I had to include something similar. = After all, an alist can be amended by consing a new entry at the front = which overrides the old value and you wouldn't want that old value to = leak out to another process. However, it really should be the caller's = responsibility not to serialise object with duplicate keys, though.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#79668; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 79668) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Oct 2025 19:18:34 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Oct 21 15:18:34 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53105 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1vBHsQ-0002mK-3X for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2025 15:18:34 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:50462) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1vBHsO-0002lt-3u for 79668 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2025 15:18:32 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1vBHsI-0001BB-AU; Tue, 21 Oct 2025 15:18:26 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=bpcJ7UVoxj+DqnDxuOh3CK7sBpjYAJMReLHAlOiIuNQ=; b=mpn4dAdKsNX+D5NX8klh 8qHuZ2nwg2rUkl8aJt0EeHxFxw3Jr78/xPnag151JEaQqNrWkGVt2WKWvtX48zw2Vp7pkATNmxBbE qwYHth2PaqCQuGrtLX0ls8vLZRaK+KVrPo8NaGjF1ij3LMu1lJL6J3O+ELOeOTFjsCb951ivJM6E+ KxQJS7TC9CUjV/fZwIHpU5/bZqhLjVU33RJ8DPcE7XP7F3wdzPTXtPKquRyVG2tSuO0jEW3uyHp6R IwpIWmDD8fSVSfFblspI90j6cMKUXQJZF9OoCUGcCv3K0fS+bFEZ7nwOQQ5CNI4DG+L4RqctDqs2H H+Mwvctyw75Ugg==; Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2025 22:18:21 +0300 Message-Id: <864irsvzb6.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@HIDDEN>, Mattias =?utf-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= <mattiase@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <87bjm0jg8g.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Nicolas Martyanoff on Tue, 21 Oct 2025 19:51:11 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#79668: 30.1; json-serialize rejects strings as object keys References: <87jz0oju7l.fsf@HIDDEN> <86jz0owbs8.fsf@HIDDEN> <87frbcjjm5.fsf@HIDDEN> <868qh4w6fo.fsf@HIDDEN> <87bjm0jg8g.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79668 Cc: 79668 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@HIDDEN> > Cc: Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@HIDDEN>, 79668 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2025 19:51:11 +0200 > > Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: > > >> Do you mean that it should not be reported as a bug because the code > >> matches the documentation, or that the fact that it only support symbols > >> is the right behaviour and that there is a reason not to allow strings? > > > > The latter, of course. > > I'm puzzled, in which world does it make any sense _not_ to handle > strings for JSON object keys which _are_ strings? AFAIU, JSON objects are maps, so we use the best data types for that on the Lisp side. See the node "Parsing JSON" in the ELisp manual. > It's not costing anything, it does not mean that symbol must not work. > > If there is a reason behind this decision so be it, but it's hard to > understand what it could be. I'll leave it to the experts to answer that, but from my perhaps naïve POV I don't understand why you must use strings there and not symbols. You can easily make a symbol from string by using 'intern', if that's a problem. Of course, you haven't told in what kind of real-life use case you bumped into this issue, so maybe I'm missing something.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#79668; Package emacs.
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[2a01:cb04:ec9:e600:9786:c4c:71a3:90d6]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ffacd0b85a97d-427ea5bbc50sm21697008f8f.21.2025.10.21.10.51.12 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 21 Oct 2025 10:51:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@HIDDEN> To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#79668: 30.1; json-serialize rejects strings as object keys In-Reply-To: <868qh4w6fo.fsf@HIDDEN> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 21 Oct 2025 19:44:27 +0300") References: <87jz0oju7l.fsf@HIDDEN> <86jz0owbs8.fsf@HIDDEN> <87frbcjjm5.fsf@HIDDEN> <868qh4w6fo.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2025 19:51:11 +0200 Message-ID: <87bjm0jg8g.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79668 Cc: Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@HIDDEN>, 79668 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: >> Do you mean that it should not be reported as a bug because the code >> matches the documentation, or that the fact that it only support symbols >> is the right behaviour and that there is a reason not to allow strings? > > The latter, of course. I'm puzzled, in which world does it make any sense _not_ to handle strings for JSON object keys which _are_ strings? It's not costing anything, it does not mean that symbol must not work. If there is a reason behind this decision so be it, but it's hard to understand what it could be. -- Nicolas Martyanoff https://n16f.net nicolas@HIDDEN
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#79668; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 79668) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Oct 2025 16:44:39 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Tue Oct 21 12:44:39 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52779 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1vBFTT-0002Mp-9N for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2025 12:44:39 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:50046) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1vBFTQ-0002Ln-Rq for 79668 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2025 12:44:37 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1vBFTL-0005mj-D2; Tue, 21 Oct 2025 12:44:31 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=KXLVYsoEJuzbQlY/2Jex1/0M2URS9SQhyfNSqu6T+eE=; b=QmpuWoZE7MGr wILCJVKhqQrbaGQrIxA1Gw58K2cDEWbHMiZFO1F5ci7lhC2iHblNGGRrnUxJ/ZnesrLLv+e7/FjZN BtNb3SidyCPGpMmGYP+TbU3Z6boF/5cKFJ/Qz40F/M3zlgRYQMEhx8x6OPS0BwL0QkY1UKGvbWD2J e2jt3wuWMWpJcoMoHVPJPmANOGHTsVo5bP2nJ/Jbm0okubaIqCAtiuUuOc0UAjTE8cddb2HkcfnYv GcQzVK1EsmylqM1cpZsKLUMeOu5/7adbuaMoQ2Bqfx2PECXSKaxBzTsuQvxgBJjgB88rB5Ec2HHW+ 7sbCgrWnYdqFee5WlpZkVg==; Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2025 19:44:27 +0300 Message-Id: <868qh4w6fo.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <87frbcjjm5.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Nicolas Martyanoff on Tue, 21 Oct 2025 18:38:10 +0200) Subject: Re: bug#79668: 30.1; json-serialize rejects strings as object keys References: <87jz0oju7l.fsf@HIDDEN> <86jz0owbs8.fsf@HIDDEN> <87frbcjjm5.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79668 Cc: 79668 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > From: Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@HIDDEN> > Cc: Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@HIDDEN>, 79668 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2025 18:38:10 +0200 > > Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: > > > The doc string of json-serialize says: > > > > alist -- a JSON object. Keys must be symbols. > > > > So you must use symbols, not strings. This is not a bug. > > Do you mean that it should not be reported as a bug because the code > matches the documentation, or that the fact that it only support symbols > is the right behaviour and that there is a reason not to allow strings? The latter, of course.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#79668; Package emacs.
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[2a01:cb04:ec9:e600:9786:c4c:71a3:90d6]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 5b1f17b1804b1-475c428a534sm1318175e9.6.2025.10.21.09.38.10 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 21 Oct 2025 09:38:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@HIDDEN> To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#79668: 30.1; json-serialize rejects strings as object keys In-Reply-To: <86jz0owbs8.fsf@HIDDEN> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 21 Oct 2025 17:48:55 +0300") References: <87jz0oju7l.fsf@HIDDEN> <86jz0owbs8.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2025 18:38:10 +0200 Message-ID: <87frbcjjm5.fsf@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79668 Cc: Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@HIDDEN>, 79668 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.0 (-) Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> writes: > The doc string of json-serialize says: > > alist -- a JSON object. Keys must be symbols. > > So you must use symbols, not strings. This is not a bug. Do you mean that it should not be reported as a bug because the code matches the documentation, or that the fact that it only support symbols is the right behaviour and that there is a reason not to allow strings? -- Nicolas Martyanoff https://n16f.net nicolas@HIDDEN
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#79668; Package emacs.
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Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2025 17:48:55 +0300
Message-Id: <86jz0owbs8.fsf@HIDDEN>
From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
To: Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <87jz0oju7l.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Nicolas
Martyanoff on Tue, 21 Oct 2025 14:49:18 +0200)
Subject: Re: bug#79668: 30.1; json-serialize rejects strings as object keys
References: <87jz0oju7l.fsf@HIDDEN>
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> From: Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@HIDDEN>
> Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2025 14:49:18 +0200
>
>
> This can be easily tested in IELM:
>
> ELISP> (json-serialize '(("foo" . 1) ("bar" . 2)))
> *** Eval error *** Wrong type argument: symbolp, "foo"
>
> JSON object keys are strings, and serialization should support ELisp
> strings.
The doc string of json-serialize says:
alist -- a JSON object. Keys must be symbols.
So you must use symbols, not strings. This is not a bug.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#79668; Package emacs.
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Tue, 21 Oct 2025 05:49:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@HIDDEN>
To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN
Subject: 30.1; json-serialize rejects strings as object keys
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2025 14:49:18 +0200
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This can be easily tested in IELM:
ELISP> (json-serialize '(("foo" . 1) ("bar" . 2)))
*** Eval error *** Wrong type argument: symbolp, "foo"
JSON object keys are strings, and serialization should support ELisp
strings.
GNU Emacs 30.1 (build 2, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.24.49, cairo version 1.18.4)
--
Nicolas Martyanoff
https://n16f.net
nicolas@HIDDEN
Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@HIDDEN>:bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.
Full text available.bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#79668; Package emacs.
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