Received: (at 79681) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Oct 2025 09:59:16 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sun Oct 26 05:59:15 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44194 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1vCxWt-000532-H4 for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2025 05:59:15 -0400 Received: from woodpecker.gentoo.org ([140.211.166.183]:51394 helo=smtp.gentoo.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <ulm@HIDDEN>) id 1vCxWr-00052l-BB for 79681 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 26 Oct 2025 05:59:13 -0400 Received: from urania (p200300cbaf3a7600096c4abd746d37c4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [IPv6:2003:cb:af3a:7600:96c:4abd:746d:37c4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange secp256r1 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: ulm) by smtp.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 14CFB335D27; Sun, 26 Oct 2025 09:59:03 +0000 (UTC) From: =?utf-8?Q?Ulrich_M=C3=BCller?= <ulm@HIDDEN> To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#79681: 30.2; Cannot build Emacs from release archive if source tree is read-only In-Reply-To: <865xc2qbpd.fsf@HIDDEN> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sun, 26 Oct 2025 11:00:46 +0200") References: <m2qzuutds7.fsf@HIDDEN> <86a51iuqzx.fsf@HIDDEN> <F8B74607-2007-408D-8AAE-E234888A4CB7@HIDDEN> <86qzutu3hm.fsf@HIDDEN> <93B066AD-193C-4CD0-9EE4-03B753BCAD89@HIDDEN> <86o6pwu9ap.fsf@HIDDEN> <FC736657-11B0-44DE-956A-FBC75AA1F630@HIDDEN> <865xc2qbpd.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2025 10:59:00 +0100 Message-ID: <u3476rnkr@HIDDEN> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79681 Cc: Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN>, eggert@HIDDEN, 79681 <at> debbugs.gnu.org, Ulrich Mueller <ulm@HIDDEN>, alan@HIDDEN X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) >>>>> On Sun, 26 Oct 2025, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > So I give up at this point. Unless Ulrich (CC'ed) has some ideas, or > someone else comes up with patches, the limitation that the source > tree must be writable will remain in place. Eventually, I think we > should remove the small-ja-dic option, at which point a large chunk of > this problem will go away, and it will become reasonably easy to fix > the rest. For now, I'm not too motivated to fix this, sorry. Gentoo has dropped the small-ja-dic flag some time ago, because we concluded that the space saving is not worth the hassle: | https://gitweb.gentoo.org/repo/gentoo.git/commit/?id=7ed9473b9f640b5f8a6fc5a482465813189bb463 | app-editors/emacs: Drop the small-ja-dic flag | This has saved 4.6 MiB of space for the installed image, which is | insignificant compared to the total installation footprint of 190 MiB. So, no objections here to removing the option.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#79681; Package emacs.
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To: Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN>, Ulrich Mueller <ulm@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <FC736657-11B0-44DE-956A-FBC75AA1F630@HIDDEN> (message from
Philipp Stephani on Fri, 24 Oct 2025 16:49:42 +0200)
Subject: Re: bug#79681: 30.2; Cannot build Emacs from release archive if
source tree is read-only
References: <m2qzuutds7.fsf@HIDDEN> <86a51iuqzx.fsf@HIDDEN>
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> From: Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN>
> Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2025 16:49:42 +0200
> Cc: alan@HIDDEN,
> eggert@HIDDEN,
> 79681 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>
>
>
> > Am 24.10.2025 um 08:02 schrieb Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>:
> >
> >> From: Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN>
> >> Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2025 16:08:44 +0200
> >> Cc: Alan Third <alan@HIDDEN>,
> >> eggert@HIDDEN,
> >> 79681 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> Am 23.10.2025 um 15:55 schrieb Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>:
> >>>
> >>>> My guess is that since leim/small-ja-dic-option in the build tree didn't exist, Make generates it, so it's too new and it'll try to regenerate ja-dic.el in the source tree.
> >>>
> >>> Why doesn't Make find small-ja-dic-option via VPATH? Are you using
> >>> GNU Make? If so, I think it should have found the file in the source
> >>> tree, and copying it should not be needed.
> >>
> >> I just tried it with GNU Make from Homebrew (installed as gmake) and got the same error:
> >>
> >> gmake[3]: Entering directory '/private/tmp/build/leim'
> >> GEN small-ja-dic-option
> >> GEN ../../emacs-30.2/leim/../lisp/leim/ja-dic/ja-dic.el
> >> INFO Processing OKURI-ARI entries
> >> INFO Processing POSTFIX entries
> >> INFO Processing PREFIX entries
> >> INFO Collecting OKURI-NASI entries
> >> INFO Collecting OKURI-NASI entries...
> >> [...]
> >> INFO Collecting OKURI-NASI entries...done
> >> INFO Processing OKURI-NASI entries
> >> INFO Processing OKURI-NASI entries...
> >> [...]
> >> INFO Processing OKURI-NASI entries...done
> >> File ja-dic.el is write-protected; try to save anyway? (yes or no) yes
> >> gmake[3]: Leaving directory '/private/tmp/build/leim'
> >> gmake[3]: Entering directory '/private/tmp/build/lisp'
> >> ELC leim/ja-dic/ja-dic.elc
> >> INFO Extracting OKURI-NASI entries...
> >> [...]
> >> INFO Extracting OKURI-NASI entries...done
> >>>> Error occurred processing ../../emacs-30.2/lisp/leim/ja-dic/ja-dic.el: File error (("Opening output file" "Cannot overwrite file" "/private/tmp/emacs-30.2/lisp/leim/ja-dic/ja-dic.elc"))
> >
> > Please show the VPATH line(s) from leim/Makefile in that build.
>
> There is no such line. (It's also not present in leim/Makefile.in <http://makefile.in/> on master.)
>
> I tried adding
>
> VPATH = ${srcdir}
>
> to leim/Makefile manually, but that hasn't helped either.
After looking at this for some time, my conclusion is that there are
too many issues here. Basically, the leim/ directory is not well
suited for building outside of the source tree; in particular, any
regeneration of the dictionary files modifies the files in the source
tree.
Some issues that I saw:
. missing VPATH, without which small-ja-dic-option file which comes
with the tarball is not found
. the rule for updating small-ja-dic-option always generates a new
file when building outside of the source tree, even if I add VPATH,
because Make doesn't tweak $@ to include the directory when
small-ja-dic-option from the tarball is found
. I don't know how to modify the rule for small-ja-dic-option so that
it compares with the file in the source tree, but generates a new
file in the build tree: move-if-change doesn't support such an
option
. the rules to regenerate the dictionaries, ja-dic and others, all
modify the files in the source tree, so if they need to be run
(e.g., if the build is configured with --small-ja-dic=yes), the
source tree must be writable
So I give up at this point. Unless Ulrich (CC'ed) has some ideas, or
someone else comes up with patches, the limitation that the source
tree must be writable will remain in place. Eventually, I think we
should remove the small-ja-dic option, at which point a large chunk of
this problem will go away, and it will become reasonably easy to fix
the rest. For now, I'm not too motivated to fix this, sorry.
P.S. The macOS-specific issue still needs investigation, so comments
and suggestions about that are welcome.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#79681; Package emacs.
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Subject: Re: bug#79681: 30.2; Cannot build Emacs from release archive if
source tree is read-only
From: Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <86o6pwu9ap.fsf@HIDDEN>
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2025 16:49:42 +0200
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<F8B74607-2007-408D-8AAE-E234888A4CB7@HIDDEN> <86qzutu3hm.fsf@HIDDEN>
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To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
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> Am 24.10.2025 um 08:02 schrieb Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>:
>=20
>> From: Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN>
>> Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2025 16:08:44 +0200
>> Cc: Alan Third <alan@HIDDEN>,
>> eggert@HIDDEN,
>> 79681 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>> Am 23.10.2025 um 15:55 schrieb Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>:
>>>=20
>>>> My guess is that since leim/small-ja-dic-option in the build tree =
didn't exist, Make generates it, so it's too new and it'll try to =
regenerate ja-dic.el in the source tree.
>>>=20
>>> Why doesn't Make find small-ja-dic-option via VPATH? Are you using
>>> GNU Make? If so, I think it should have found the file in the =
source
>>> tree, and copying it should not be needed.
>>=20
>> I just tried it with GNU Make from Homebrew (installed as gmake) and =
got the same error:
>>=20
>> gmake[3]: Entering directory '/private/tmp/build/leim'
>> GEN small-ja-dic-option
>> GEN ../../emacs-30.2/leim/../lisp/leim/ja-dic/ja-dic.el
>> INFO Processing OKURI-ARI entries
>> INFO Processing POSTFIX entries
>> INFO Processing PREFIX entries
>> INFO Collecting OKURI-NASI entries
>> INFO Collecting OKURI-NASI entries... =20
>> [...]
>> INFO Collecting OKURI-NASI entries...done
>> INFO Processing OKURI-NASI entries
>> INFO Processing OKURI-NASI entries... =20
>> [...]
>> INFO Processing OKURI-NASI entries...done
>> File ja-dic.el is write-protected; try to save anyway? (yes or no) =
yes
>> gmake[3]: Leaving directory '/private/tmp/build/leim'
>> gmake[3]: Entering directory '/private/tmp/build/lisp'
>> ELC leim/ja-dic/ja-dic.elc
>> INFO Extracting OKURI-NASI entries... =20
>> [...]
>> INFO Extracting OKURI-NASI entries...done
>>>> Error occurred processing =
../../emacs-30.2/lisp/leim/ja-dic/ja-dic.el: File error (("Opening =
output file" "Cannot overwrite file" =
"/private/tmp/emacs-30.2/lisp/leim/ja-dic/ja-dic.elc"))
>=20
> Please show the VPATH line(s) from leim/Makefile in that build.
There is no such line. (It's also not present in leim/Makefile.in =
<http://makefile.in/> on master.)
I tried adding
VPATH =3D ${srcdir}
to leim/Makefile manually, but that hasn't helped either.=
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#79681; Package emacs.
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Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2025 09:02:22 +0300
Message-Id: <86o6pwu9ap.fsf@HIDDEN>
From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
To: Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <93B066AD-193C-4CD0-9EE4-03B753BCAD89@HIDDEN> (message from
Philipp Stephani on Thu, 23 Oct 2025 16:08:44 +0200)
Subject: Re: bug#79681: 30.2; Cannot build Emacs from release archive if
source tree is read-only
References: <m2qzuutds7.fsf@HIDDEN> <86a51iuqzx.fsf@HIDDEN>
<F8B74607-2007-408D-8AAE-E234888A4CB7@HIDDEN> <86qzutu3hm.fsf@HIDDEN>
<93B066AD-193C-4CD0-9EE4-03B753BCAD89@HIDDEN>
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> From: Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN>
> Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2025 16:08:44 +0200
> Cc: Alan Third <alan@HIDDEN>,
> eggert@HIDDEN,
> 79681 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>
>
>
> > Am 23.10.2025 um 15:55 schrieb Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>:
> >
> >> My guess is that since leim/small-ja-dic-option in the build tree didn't exist, Make generates it, so it's too new and it'll try to regenerate ja-dic.el in the source tree.
> >
> > Why doesn't Make find small-ja-dic-option via VPATH? Are you using
> > GNU Make? If so, I think it should have found the file in the source
> > tree, and copying it should not be needed.
>
> I just tried it with GNU Make from Homebrew (installed as gmake) and got the same error:
>
> gmake[3]: Entering directory '/private/tmp/build/leim'
> GEN small-ja-dic-option
> GEN ../../emacs-30.2/leim/../lisp/leim/ja-dic/ja-dic.el
> INFO Processing OKURI-ARI entries
> INFO Processing POSTFIX entries
> INFO Processing PREFIX entries
> INFO Collecting OKURI-NASI entries
> INFO Collecting OKURI-NASI entries...
> [...]
> INFO Collecting OKURI-NASI entries...done
> INFO Processing OKURI-NASI entries
> INFO Processing OKURI-NASI entries...
> [...]
> INFO Processing OKURI-NASI entries...done
> File ja-dic.el is write-protected; try to save anyway? (yes or no) yes
> gmake[3]: Leaving directory '/private/tmp/build/leim'
> gmake[3]: Entering directory '/private/tmp/build/lisp'
> ELC leim/ja-dic/ja-dic.elc
> INFO Extracting OKURI-NASI entries...
> [...]
> INFO Extracting OKURI-NASI entries...done
> >>Error occurred processing ../../emacs-30.2/lisp/leim/ja-dic/ja-dic.el: File error (("Opening output file" "Cannot overwrite file" "/private/tmp/emacs-30.2/lisp/leim/ja-dic/ja-dic.elc"))
Please show the VPATH line(s) from leim/Makefile in that build.
> $ gmake --version
> GNU Make 4.4.1
>
> macOS ships an old version of GNU Make:
> $ make --version
> GNU Make 3.81
Make 3.81 should be good enough, that's the minimal version we
require. VPATH is fully supported by 3.81.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#79681; Package emacs.
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bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#79681; Package emacs.
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Subject: Re: bug#79681: 30.2; Cannot build Emacs from release archive if
source tree is read-only
From: Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <86qzutu3hm.fsf@HIDDEN>
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2025 16:08:44 +0200
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<F8B74607-2007-408D-8AAE-E234888A4CB7@HIDDEN> <86qzutu3hm.fsf@HIDDEN>
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> Am 23.10.2025 um 15:55 schrieb Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>:
>=20
>> From: Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN>
>> Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2025 15:35:24 +0200
>> Cc: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN>,
>> 79681 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>>=20
>>> Does it mean there are other files in the source tree that we write
>>> to? If so, please name them, or show the relevant error messages.
>>=20
>> After running
>>=20
>> ../emacs-30.2/configure --without-ns --without-all --without-x =
--with-x-toolkit=3Dno
>>=20
>> with the configure.ac patch applied (and running autogen.sh to =
regenerate configure; ../emacs-30.2 is the source tree), I get this =
message:
>>=20
>> GEN small-ja-dic-option
>> GEN ../../emacs-30.2/leim/../lisp/leim/ja-dic/ja-dic.el
>> INFO Processing OKURI-ARI entries
>> INFO Processing POSTFIX entries
>> INFO Processing PREFIX entries
>> INFO Collecting OKURI-NASI entries
>> [...]
>> INFO Processing OKURI-NASI entries...done
>> File ja-dic.el is write-protected; try to save anyway? (yes or no) no
>>=20
>> Error: error ("Attempt to save to a file that you aren=E2=80=99t =
allowed to write")
>> signal(error ("Attempt to save to a file that you aren=E2=80=99t =
allowed to write"))
>> error("Attempt to save to a file that you aren't allowed to write")
>> basic-save-buffer-2()
>> basic-save-buffer-1()
>> basic-save-buffer(nil)
>> save-buffer(0)
>> skkdic-convert("/private/tmp/emacs-30.2/leim/SKK-DIC/SKK-JISYO.L" =
"/private/tmp/emacs-30.2/lisp/leim/ja-dic" t)
>> batch-skkdic-convert()
>> command-line-1(("-l" "ja-dic-cnv" "-f" "batch-skkdic-convert" "-dir" =
"../../emacs-30.2/leim/../lisp/leim/ja-dic" "--no-reduction" =
"../../emacs-30.2/leim/SKK-DIC/SKK-JISYO.L"))
>> command-line()
>> normal-top-level()
>> Attempt to save to a file that you aren=E2=80=99t allowed to write
>>=20
>> Error (auto-save): Auto-saving ja-dic.el: Opening output file: =
Permission denied, /private/tmp/emacs-30.2/lisp/leim/ja-dic/#ja-dic.el#
>> make[3]: *** [../../emacs-30.2/leim/../lisp/leim/ja-dic/ja-dic.el] =
Error 255
>> make[2]: *** [generate-ja-dic] Error 2
>> make[1]: *** [lisp] Error 2
>>=20
>>=20
>> My guess is that since leim/small-ja-dic-option in the build tree =
didn't exist, Make generates it, so it's too new and it'll try to =
regenerate ja-dic.el in the source tree.
>=20
> Why doesn't Make find small-ja-dic-option via VPATH? Are you using
> GNU Make? If so, I think it should have found the file in the source
> tree, and copying it should not be needed.
I just tried it with GNU Make from Homebrew (installed as gmake) and got =
the same error:
gmake[3]: Entering directory '/private/tmp/build/leim'
GEN small-ja-dic-option
GEN ../../emacs-30.2/leim/../lisp/leim/ja-dic/ja-dic.el
INFO Processing OKURI-ARI entries
INFO Processing POSTFIX entries
INFO Processing PREFIX entries
INFO Collecting OKURI-NASI entries
INFO Collecting OKURI-NASI entries... =20
[...]
INFO Collecting OKURI-NASI entries...done
INFO Processing OKURI-NASI entries
INFO Processing OKURI-NASI entries... =20
[...]
INFO Processing OKURI-NASI entries...done
File ja-dic.el is write-protected; try to save anyway? (yes or no) yes
gmake[3]: Leaving directory '/private/tmp/build/leim'
gmake[3]: Entering directory '/private/tmp/build/lisp'
ELC leim/ja-dic/ja-dic.elc
INFO Extracting OKURI-NASI entries... =20
[...]
INFO Extracting OKURI-NASI entries...done
>>Error occurred processing ../../emacs-30.2/lisp/leim/ja-dic/ja-dic.el: =
File error (("Opening output file" "Cannot overwrite file" =
"/private/tmp/emacs-30.2/lisp/leim/ja-dic/ja-dic.elc"))
Error: permission-denied ("Removing old name" "Permission denied" =
"/private/tmp/emacs-30.2/lisp/leim/ja-dic/ja-dic.elc")
=
delete-file-internal("/private/tmp/emacs-30.2/lisp/leim/ja-dic/ja-dic.elc"=
)
delete-file("../../emacs-30.2/lisp/leim/ja-dic/ja-dic.elc")
batch-byte-compile-file("../../emacs-30.2/lisp/leim/ja-dic/ja-dic.el")
batch-byte-compile()
command-line-1(("--eval" "(setq load-prefer-newer t =
byte-compile-warnings 'all)" "--eval" "(setq org--inhibit-version-check =
t)" "-f" "batch-byte-compile" =
"../../emacs-30.2/lisp/leim/ja-dic/ja-dic.el"))
command-line()
normal-top-level()
Removing old name: Permission denied, =
/private/tmp/emacs-30.2/lisp/leim/ja-dic/ja-dic.elc
gmake[3]: *** [Makefile:335: leim/ja-dic/ja-dic.elc] Error 255
gmake[3]: Leaving directory '/private/tmp/build/lisp'
gmake[2]: *** [Makefile:174: generate-ja-dic] Error 2
gmake[2]: Leaving directory '/private/tmp/build/lisp'
gmake[1]: *** [Makefile:537: lisp] Error 2
(I answered "yes" instead of "no" this time just to see what happens, =
but it just failed with a different error.)
$ gmake --version
GNU Make 4.4.1
macOS ships an old version of GNU Make:
$ make --version
GNU Make 3.81
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#79681; Package emacs.
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Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2025 16:55:33 +0300
Message-Id: <86qzutu3hm.fsf@HIDDEN>
From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
To: Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN>, Alan Third <alan@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <F8B74607-2007-408D-8AAE-E234888A4CB7@HIDDEN> (message from
Philipp Stephani on Thu, 23 Oct 2025 15:35:24 +0200)
Subject: Re: bug#79681: 30.2; Cannot build Emacs from release archive if
source tree is read-only
References: <m2qzuutds7.fsf@HIDDEN> <86a51iuqzx.fsf@HIDDEN>
<F8B74607-2007-408D-8AAE-E234888A4CB7@HIDDEN>
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> From: Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN>
> Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2025 15:35:24 +0200
> Cc: Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN>,
> 79681 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
>
> > Does it mean there are other files in the source tree that we write
> > to? If so, please name them, or show the relevant error messages.
>
> After running
>
> ../emacs-30.2/configure --without-ns --without-all --without-x --with-x-toolkit=no
>
> with the configure.ac patch applied (and running autogen.sh to regenerate configure; ../emacs-30.2 is the source tree), I get this message:
>
> GEN small-ja-dic-option
> GEN ../../emacs-30.2/leim/../lisp/leim/ja-dic/ja-dic.el
> INFO Processing OKURI-ARI entries
> INFO Processing POSTFIX entries
> INFO Processing PREFIX entries
> INFO Collecting OKURI-NASI entries
> [...]
> INFO Processing OKURI-NASI entries...done
> File ja-dic.el is write-protected; try to save anyway? (yes or no) no
>
> Error: error ("Attempt to save to a file that you aren’t allowed to write")
> signal(error ("Attempt to save to a file that you aren’t allowed to write"))
> error("Attempt to save to a file that you aren't allowed to write")
> basic-save-buffer-2()
> basic-save-buffer-1()
> basic-save-buffer(nil)
> save-buffer(0)
> skkdic-convert("/private/tmp/emacs-30.2/leim/SKK-DIC/SKK-JISYO.L" "/private/tmp/emacs-30.2/lisp/leim/ja-dic" t)
> batch-skkdic-convert()
> command-line-1(("-l" "ja-dic-cnv" "-f" "batch-skkdic-convert" "-dir" "../../emacs-30.2/leim/../lisp/leim/ja-dic" "--no-reduction" "../../emacs-30.2/leim/SKK-DIC/SKK-JISYO.L"))
> command-line()
> normal-top-level()
> Attempt to save to a file that you aren’t allowed to write
>
> Error (auto-save): Auto-saving ja-dic.el: Opening output file: Permission denied, /private/tmp/emacs-30.2/lisp/leim/ja-dic/#ja-dic.el#
> make[3]: *** [../../emacs-30.2/leim/../lisp/leim/ja-dic/ja-dic.el] Error 255
> make[2]: *** [generate-ja-dic] Error 2
> make[1]: *** [lisp] Error 2
>
>
> My guess is that since leim/small-ja-dic-option in the build tree didn't exist, Make generates it, so it's too new and it'll try to regenerate ja-dic.el in the source tree.
Why doesn't Make find small-ja-dic-option via VPATH? Are you using
GNU Make? If so, I think it should have found the file in the source
tree, and copying it should not be needed.
> If I run configure on macOS/Darwin without any options, it'll try to build a graphical ("nextstep") app. This fails in the following step:
This is NS-specific, so someone who is familiar with macOS needs to
look at that. Maybe Alan could help.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#79681; Package emacs.
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Subject: Re: bug#79681: 30.2; Cannot build Emacs from release archive if
source tree is read-only
From: Philipp Stephani <p.stephani2@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <86a51iuqzx.fsf@HIDDEN>
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2025 15:35:24 +0200
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To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
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> Am 23.10.2025 um 07:27 schrieb Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>:
>=20
>> From: Philipp <p.stephani2@HIDDEN>
>> Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2025 06:58:32 +0200
>>=20
>>=20
>> Emacs should support out-of-tree builds without touching the source
>> tree, but currently the source tree needs to be writable. For =
example,
>> if /tmp/emacs-30.2 is a read-only tree that contains the unpacked =
Emacs
>> 30.2 release archive, and /tmp/build is empty, configure will fail:
>>=20
>> /tmp/build$ ../emacs-30.2/configure
>> [...]
>> config.status: creating ../emacs-30.2/doc/man/emacs.1
>> mv: rename ./conf3FI96h/out to ../emacs-30.2/doc/man/emacs.1: =
Permission denied
>> config.status: error: could not create ../emacs-30.2/doc/man/emacs.1
>>=20
>> config.status shouldn't create files in the source tree, only in the
>> build tree.
>=20
> Thanks. Does the patch below give good results?
Yes, it allows configure to succeed, thanks. (I tested it with the =
Emacs 30.2 release archive, but it should work as well on master.)
>> After making emacs-30.2/doc/man writable, configure works. Make also
>> works, at least when told to leave ja-dic.el alone (e.g. using
>> 'touch -t 200001010000 leim/small-ja-dic-option'), and (on macOS) =
when
>> the graphical app is disabled using the configure options
>> --without-ns --without-all --without-x --with-x-toolkit=3Dno.
>=20
> Does it mean there are other files in the source tree that we write
> to? If so, please name them, or show the relevant error messages.
After running
../emacs-30.2/configure --without-ns --without-all --without-x =
--with-x-toolkit=3Dno
with the configure.ac patch applied (and running autogen.sh to =
regenerate configure; ../emacs-30.2 is the source tree), I get this =
message:
GEN small-ja-dic-option
GEN ../../emacs-30.2/leim/../lisp/leim/ja-dic/ja-dic.el
INFO Processing OKURI-ARI entries
INFO Processing POSTFIX entries
INFO Processing PREFIX entries
INFO Collecting OKURI-NASI entries
[...]
INFO Processing OKURI-NASI entries...done
File ja-dic.el is write-protected; try to save anyway? (yes or no) no
Error: error ("Attempt to save to a file that you aren=E2=80=99t allowed =
to write")
signal(error ("Attempt to save to a file that you aren=E2=80=99t =
allowed to write"))
error("Attempt to save to a file that you aren't allowed to write")
basic-save-buffer-2()
basic-save-buffer-1()
basic-save-buffer(nil)
save-buffer(0)
skkdic-convert("/private/tmp/emacs-30.2/leim/SKK-DIC/SKK-JISYO.L" =
"/private/tmp/emacs-30.2/lisp/leim/ja-dic" t)
batch-skkdic-convert()
command-line-1(("-l" "ja-dic-cnv" "-f" "batch-skkdic-convert" "-dir" =
"../../emacs-30.2/leim/../lisp/leim/ja-dic" "--no-reduction" =
"../../emacs-30.2/leim/SKK-DIC/SKK-JISYO.L"))
command-line()
normal-top-level()
Attempt to save to a file that you aren=E2=80=99t allowed to write
Error (auto-save): Auto-saving ja-dic.el: Opening output file: =
Permission denied, /private/tmp/emacs-30.2/lisp/leim/ja-dic/#ja-dic.el#
make[3]: *** [../../emacs-30.2/leim/../lisp/leim/ja-dic/ja-dic.el] Error =
255
make[2]: *** [generate-ja-dic] Error 2
make[1]: *** [lisp] Error 2
My guess is that since leim/small-ja-dic-option in the build tree didn't =
exist, Make generates it, so it's too new and it'll try to regenerate =
ja-dic.el in the source tree. One way to fix this could be to have =
configure run
cp -p $srcdir/leim/small-ja-dic-option $builddir/leim/
if srcdir !=3D builddir so that small-ja-dic-option exists and is old =
enough. Manually running this command fixed the build for me.
(Maybe batch-skkdic-convert should rather call write-region instead of =
save-buffer in any case, since the latter is an interactive command =
that's prone to prompting the user.)
---
If I run configure on macOS/Darwin without any options, it'll try to =
build a graphical ("nextstep") app. This fails in the following step:
/Library/Developer/CommandLineTools/usr/bin/make -C ../nextstep all
rm -rf /tmp/build/nextstep/Emacs.app
/opt/homebrew/bin/gmkdir -p /tmp/build/nextstep/Emacs.app
( cd ../../emacs-30.2/nextstep/Cocoa/Emacs.base ; tar cfh - . ) | \
( cd /tmp/build/nextstep/Emacs.app ; umask 022; tar xf - )
[ "`cd ../../emacs-30.2/nextstep && pwd -P`" =3D "`pwd -P`" ] || \
( cd Cocoa/Emacs.base ; tar cfh - . ) | \
( cd /tmp/build/nextstep/Emacs.app ; umask 022; tar xf - )
./Contents/Info.plist: Can't create 'Contents/Info.plist': Permission =
denied
./Contents/Resources/English.lproj/: Can't create =
'Contents/Resources/English.lproj': Permission denied
./Contents/Resources/English.lproj/InfoPlist.strings: Failed to create =
dir 'Contents/Resources/English.lproj': No such file or directory
tar: Error exit delayed from previous errors.
make[3]: *** [/tmp/build/nextstep/Emacs.app] Error 1
make[2]: *** [ns-app] Error 2
make[1]: *** [src] Error 2
I haven't figured out what this is trying to do, but it also fails with =
"permission denied". I found that nextstep/Emacs.app/Contents in the =
build directory isn't writable; probably Make should create it as =
writable directory. After
chmod -R u+w $builddir/nextstep/Emacs.app/Contents
Make succeeds.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#79681; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 79681) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Oct 2025 05:44:27 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Oct 23 01:44:26 2025 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59361 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1vBo7e-0006X4-GM for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2025 01:44:26 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:51658) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1vBo7c-0006Wb-0w for 79681 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2025 01:44:25 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1vBo7W-0002hm-KJ; Thu, 23 Oct 2025 01:44:18 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=zGwn64Ah2Tp5VCSNus1cFM2Nx4gzLNzqFzQnJqF1YHs=; b=hVBgftVeARYV dEb0/lYeyeWdNUBbpD8kPFg7PbNv+ThfaLrQ9Oy8LZNzF4r+pZPg5fXZuTJCOzYauDeMxdYxA2spG pCsz63s2aD6TwpwMQnzswMCpuAOXkIe/p13x1Oynl7TlvFEPUq+e4WyBUGh31CCgN9IDsybCY0mct w+n88GopZpiMY4T82GsiNPHSY47JRkhIPMuRcAQAAC1JsGbeRHSCjtfqE2xSwQ3Yac2MQN0cKqWtI a705NGdS8C0AewzT2C7DIkyzZXOcb6+RMtyzitns4JBdsTgfHTLltC5vo2pP6AGmLqAVO14e60ZXp PAzfK/ZZnWC8Tz1Kya05GQ==; Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2025 08:44:15 +0300 Message-Id: <868qh2uq8g.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: p.stephani2@HIDDEN In-Reply-To: <86a51iuqzx.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Eli Zaretskii on Thu, 23 Oct 2025 08:27:46 +0300) Subject: Re: bug#79681: 30.2; Cannot build Emacs from release archive if source tree is read-only References: <m2qzuutds7.fsf@HIDDEN> <86a51iuqzx.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 79681 Cc: eggert@HIDDEN, 79681 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Cc: 79681 <at> debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2025 08:27:46 +0300 > From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> > > > /tmp/build$ ../emacs-30.2/configure > > [...] > > config.status: creating ../emacs-30.2/doc/man/emacs.1 > > mv: rename ./conf3FI96h/out to ../emacs-30.2/doc/man/emacs.1: Permission denied > > config.status: error: could not create ../emacs-30.2/doc/man/emacs.1 > > > > config.status shouldn't create files in the source tree, only in the > > build tree. > > Thanks. Does the patch below give good results? If it does, we will also need a patch to the top-level Makefile.in, in the install-man and uninstall targets' rules. They currently assume all the man pages are in the source tree. Also, we will need to update the value of top_bootclean.
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#79681; Package emacs.
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Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2025 08:27:46 +0300
Message-Id: <86a51iuqzx.fsf@HIDDEN>
From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
To: Philipp <p.stephani2@HIDDEN>, Paul Eggert <eggert@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <m2qzuutds7.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Philipp on
Thu, 23 Oct 2025 06:58:32 +0200)
Subject: Re: bug#79681: 30.2;
Cannot build Emacs from release archive if source tree is read-only
References: <m2qzuutds7.fsf@HIDDEN>
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> From: Philipp <p.stephani2@HIDDEN>
> Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2025 06:58:32 +0200
>
>
> Emacs should support out-of-tree builds without touching the source
> tree, but currently the source tree needs to be writable. For example,
> if /tmp/emacs-30.2 is a read-only tree that contains the unpacked Emacs
> 30.2 release archive, and /tmp/build is empty, configure will fail:
>
> /tmp/build$ ../emacs-30.2/configure
> [...]
> config.status: creating ../emacs-30.2/doc/man/emacs.1
> mv: rename ./conf3FI96h/out to ../emacs-30.2/doc/man/emacs.1: Permission denied
> config.status: error: could not create ../emacs-30.2/doc/man/emacs.1
>
> config.status shouldn't create files in the source tree, only in the
> build tree.
Thanks. Does the patch below give good results?
Paul, do you see any reasons why we have $srcdir in that place? I
don't understand the comment before this line, viz.:
dnl config.status treats $srcdir specially, so I think this is ok...
What does it want to tell, and why?
> After making emacs-30.2/doc/man writable, configure works. Make also
> works, at least when told to leave ja-dic.el alone (e.g. using
> 'touch -t 200001010000 leim/small-ja-dic-option'), and (on macOS) when
> the graphical app is disabled using the configure options
> --without-ns --without-all --without-x --with-x-toolkit=no.
Does it mean there are other files in the source tree that we write
to? If so, please name them, or show the relevant error messages.
diff --git a/configure.ac b/configure.ac
index 6bec1ad..a44f87f 100644
--- a/configure.ac
+++ b/configure.ac
@@ -7722,7 +7722,7 @@ AC_DEFUN
AC_CONFIG_FILES([Makefile lib/gnulib.mk])
dnl config.status treats $srcdir specially, so I think this is ok...
-ARCH_INDEPENDENT_CONFIG_FILES([$srcdir/doc/man/emacs.1])
+ARCH_INDEPENDENT_CONFIG_FILES([doc/man/emacs.1])
AC_CONFIG_FILES([lib/Makefile lib-src/Makefile oldXMenu/Makefile src/Makefile
lwlib/Makefile nextstep/Makefile nt/Makefile])
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#79681; Package emacs.
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The original message has been attached to this so you can view it or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Emacs should support out-of-tree builds without touching the source tree, but currently the source tree needs to be writable. For example, if /tmp/emacs-30.2 is a read-only tree that contains the unpa [...] Content analysis details: (1.2 points, 10.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.2 FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT Envelope-from freemail username ends in digit (p.stephani2[at]gmail.com) -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at https://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [2001:470:142:0:0:0:0:17 listed in] [list.dnswl.org] -0.0 SPF_HELO_PASS SPF: HELO matches SPF record 1.0 SPF_SOFTFAIL SPF: sender does not match SPF record (softfail) 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (p.stephani2[at]gmail.com) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) Emacs should support out-of-tree builds without touching the source tree, but currently the source tree needs to be writable. For example, if /tmp/emacs-30.2 is a read-only tree that contains the unpacked Emacs 30.2 release archive, and /tmp/build is empty, configure will fail: /tmp/build$ ../emacs-30.2/configure [...] config.status: creating ../emacs-30.2/doc/man/emacs.1 mv: rename ./conf3FI96h/out to ../emacs-30.2/doc/man/emacs.1: Permission denied config.status: error: could not create ../emacs-30.2/doc/man/emacs.1 config.status shouldn't create files in the source tree, only in the build tree. After making emacs-30.2/doc/man writable, configure works. Make also works, at least when told to leave ja-dic.el alone (e.g. using 'touch -t 200001010000 leim/small-ja-dic-option'), and (on macOS) when the graphical app is disabled using the configure options --without-ns --without-all --without-x --with-x-toolkit=no. In GNU Emacs 30.2 (build 1, aarch64-apple-darwin24.6.0, NS appkit-2575.70 Version 15.6 (Build 24G84)) of 2025-08-17 Repository revision: 636f166cfc86aa90d63f592fd99f3fdd9ef95ebd Repository branch: HEAD Windowing system distributor 'Apple', version 10.3.2685 System Description: macOS 26.0.1 Configured using: 'configure --with-modules --with-xml2 --without-pop --with-mailutils 'CFLAGS=-g -O2' LDFLAGS=-O2' Configured features: ACL GLIB GNUTLS LCMS2 LIBXML2 MODULES NOTIFY KQUEUE NS PDUMPER PNG RSVG SQLITE3 THREADS TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS TREE_SITTER WEBP XIM ZLIB Important settings: value of $LANG: de_DE.UTF-8 locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix Major mode: Lisp Interaction Minor modes in effect: tooltip-mode: t global-eldoc-mode: t eldoc-mode: t show-paren-mode: t electric-indent-mode: t mouse-wheel-mode: t tool-bar-mode: t menu-bar-mode: t file-name-shadow-mode: t global-font-lock-mode: t font-lock-mode: t blink-cursor-mode: t minibuffer-regexp-mode: t line-number-mode: t indent-tabs-mode: t transient-mark-mode: t auto-composition-mode: t auto-encryption-mode: t auto-compression-mode: t Load-path shadows: None found. Features: (shadow sort mail-extr emacsbug phst skeleton pcase ffap thingatpt url url-proxy url-privacy url-expand url-methods url-history url-cookie generate-lisp-file url-domsuf url-util url-parse auth-source cl-seq eieio eieio-core cl-macs icons json map byte-opt gv bytecomp byte-compile url-vars rx message sendmail mailcap yank-media dired dired-loaddefs rfc822 mml mml-sec password-cache epa derived epg rfc6068 epg-config gnus-util time-date mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231 rfc2047 rfc2045 mm-util ietf-drums mail-prsvr mailabbrev mail-utils gmm-utils mailheader gnutls puny elp dbus xml compile text-property-search comint subr-x ansi-osc ansi-color ring cl-loaddefs cl-lib rmc iso-transl tooltip cconv eldoc paren electric uniquify ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type elisp-mode mwheel term/ns-win ns-win ucs-normalize mule-util term/common-win tool-bar dnd fontset image regexp-opt fringe tabulated-list replace newcomment text-mode lisp-mode prog-mode register page tab-bar menu-bar rfn-eshadow isearch easymenu timer select scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax font-core term/tty-colors frame minibuffer nadvice seq simple cl-generic indonesian philippine cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao korean japanese eucjp-ms cp51932 hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese composite emoji-zwj charscript charprop case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help abbrev obarray oclosure cl-preloaded button loaddefs theme-loaddefs faces cus-face macroexp files window text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule custom widget keymap hashtable-print-readable backquote threads kqueue cocoa ns lcms2 multi-tty make-network-process emacs) Memory information: ((conses 16 73834 13242) (symbols 48 8525 0) (strings 32 22032 2489) (string-bytes 1 578852) (vectors 16 15204) (vector-slots 8 161929 13190) (floats 8 31 5) (intervals 56 241 0) (buffers 992 10))
Philipp <p.stephani2@HIDDEN>:bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.
Full text available.bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#79681; Package emacs.
Full text available.
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Copyright (C) 1999 Darren O. Benham,
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