GNU bug report logs - #79696
[wishlist] Make (some) built-in themes be built on top of Modus themes

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Package: emacs; Severity: wishlist; Reported by: Elijah Gabe Pérez <eg642616@HIDDEN>; dated Sat, 25 Oct 2025 19:46:02 UTC; Maintainer for emacs is bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.

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From: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN>
To: Protesilaos Stavrou <prot@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#79696: [wishlist] Make (some) built-in themes be built on
 top of Modus themes
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Protesilaos Stavrou <prot@HIDDEN> writes:

> On 2025-11-06 22:00, Philip Kaludercic wrote:
>>> [...]
>>> Theming can certainly use some refinements.  One can add their own
>>> stuff to
>>> `custom-theme-load-path` but I haven't tried.  I use modus-themes with
>>> basic customizations and add whatever other faces I need in
>>> `modus-themes-after-load-theme-hook` and that gets called just fine
>>> switching from dark to light or any other modus-based theme.  Way more
>>> convenient for me than hacking themes from scratch.
>> But that returns back to (one of) my point(s) that it seems like we
>> should rather work on upstreaming this kind of flexibility, to make it
>> accessible for all themes, instead of stacking more layers on existing
>> layers.  In my experience, upstreaming usually results in general
>> simplifications, because other parts of Emacs can also be updated that
>> packages usually have to accept as given.
>
> Upstreaming is fine. Though whether it leads to more simplicity will
> depend on how flexible the framework is.
>
> How would upstreaming be done with regard to face coverage though?
> Would core Emacs support faces defined by third party packages? If so,
> would it also come with the equivalent of a palette+mappings
> combination to allow for cross-package thematic consistency?

I would argue that Emacs shouldn't do that; we should provide faces that
most packages find the need to define on their own, and then ensure that
packages can make use of these faces e.g. using Compat.

> One of the main challenges with the out-of-the-box experience is that
> each package does its own thing. Built-in Emacs faces beyond faces.el
> are similar in this regard. Compare the edebug faces to flymake's
> fringe markers (e.g. flymake-error-bitmap), for an
> example. Conceptually they should have similar looks. Edebug defines
> faces for its fringe indicators, at least, but Flymake does not.

Just to clarify; there are two steps to the project I was proposing:

The first is to describe and add what "semantic" faces Emacs lacks.  I
figure that your experience with Modus Themes and co. give you a good
insight into this, because I'd assume you have a feeling for what common
patterns occur and what faces themes define on their own to supplement
the lack of "canonical" faces provided by Emacs itself.  I have also
been thinking about using some sentiment analysis on faces defined in
{Non,}GNU ELPA to accelerate this process and have something we can
start talking about.

The second is to first get these faces into use in Emacs, and hopefully
after gathering some feedback, get them used by packages on ELPA as
well.

> [ I plan to send patches for at least some of these cases, by the way. ]
>
> From where I stand, the Modus parts that could be generalised are:
>
> - Some concept of a palette with named colours and semantic colour
>   mappings. How exactly it looks is okay, so long as we have the ideas
>   in place.

What do you mean by "How exactly it looks is okay"?

> - Based on the above, a way to preview the given palette like
>   modus-themes-list-colors.
> - Complement M-x toggle-theme with the equivalent of
>   modus-themes-to-toggle.

Just because I had to look it up, `modus-themes-to-toggle' is a user
option.  From what I understand, the point is `toggle-theme' prompts the
user what theme in a family to switch to if there are more than two,
right?  My suggestion would be to have a `custom-theme-pairs' user
option holding a bijective alist of paired themes that toggle-themes can
consult without having to prompt the user.  How does that sound like?

> - Either extend the above to support rotation for 3+ themes or
>   introduce a 'rotate-theme' command with the concomitant "themes to
>   rotate" option, like modus-themes-rotate and modus-themes-to-rotate.

I can also take care of that; again my suggestion would be just to go
rotate around themes in a theme family, in the same order as
`theme-list-variants' determines them.

> - The equivalent of modus-themes-with-colors to let users apply the
>   palette to arbritrary functions.
> - The equivalent of modus-themes-get-color-value.

Can you briefly elaborate on what these functions do?  What does it mean
to apply a palette to a function?

> I have more ideas for the future, with regard to an annotation
> function for completions, but I will want to implement it first to see
> how it feels.

There is no rush to move everything to the core, let alone to dissolve
Modus entirely into the core.  I would just like to help with getting
the functionality that Modus has developed into Emacs and make it
generic.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#79696; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 79696 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2025 09:35:15 +0200
From: Protesilaos Stavrou <prot@HIDDEN>
To: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#79696: [wishlist] Make (some) built-in themes be built on top
 of Modus themes
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On 2025-11-06 22:00, Philip Kaludercic wrote:
>> [...]
>> 
>> Theming can certainly use some refinements.  One can add their own 
>> stuff to
>> `custom-theme-load-path` but I haven't tried.  I use modus-themes with
>> basic customizations and add whatever other faces I need in
>> `modus-themes-after-load-theme-hook` and that gets called just fine
>> switching from dark to light or any other modus-based theme.  Way more
>> convenient for me than hacking themes from scratch.
> 
> But that returns back to (one of) my point(s) that it seems like we
> should rather work on upstreaming this kind of flexibility, to make it
> accessible for all themes, instead of stacking more layers on existing
> layers.  In my experience, upstreaming usually results in general
> simplifications, because other parts of Emacs can also be updated that
> packages usually have to accept as given.

Upstreaming is fine. Though whether it leads to more simplicity will 
depend on how flexible the framework is.

How would upstreaming be done with regard to face coverage though? Would 
core Emacs support faces defined by third party packages? If so, would 
it also come with the equivalent of a palette+mappings combination to 
allow for cross-package thematic consistency?

One of the main challenges with the out-of-the-box experience is that 
each package does its own thing. Built-in Emacs faces beyond faces.el 
are similar in this regard. Compare the edebug faces to flymake's fringe 
markers (e.g. flymake-error-bitmap), for an example. Conceptually they 
should have similar looks. Edebug defines faces for its fringe 
indicators, at least, but Flymake does not.

[ I plan to send patches for at least some of these cases, by the way. ]

 From where I stand, the Modus parts that could be generalised are:

- Some concept of a palette with named colours and semantic colour 
mappings. How exactly it looks is okay, so long as we have the ideas in 
place.
- Based on the above, a way to preview the given palette like 
modus-themes-list-colors.
- Complement M-x toggle-theme with the equivalent of 
modus-themes-to-toggle.
- Either extend the above to support rotation for 3+ themes or introduce 
a 'rotate-theme' command with the concomitant "themes to rotate" option, 
like modus-themes-rotate and modus-themes-to-rotate.
- The equivalent of modus-themes-with-colors to let users apply the 
palette to arbritrary functions.
- The equivalent of modus-themes-get-color-value.

I have more ideas for the future, with regard to an annotation function 
for completions, but I will want to implement it first to see how it 
feels.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#79696; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 79696 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN>
To: =?utf-8?Q?St=C3=A9phane?= Marks <shipmints@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#79696: [wishlist] Make (some) built-in themes be built on
 top of Modus themes
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St=C3=A9phane Marks <shipmints@HIDDEN> writes:

> On Wed, Nov 5, 2025 at 3:48=E2=80=AFPM Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.=
net> wrote:
>
>> St=C3=A9phane Marks <shipmints@HIDDEN> writes:
>>
>> > On Wed, Nov 5, 2025 at 3:16=E2=80=AFAM Augusto Stoffel <arstoffel@gmai=
l.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Sat, 25 Oct 2025 at 15:52, St=C3=A9phane Marks <shipmints@HIDDEN=
m>
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Whenever I see people discuss some custom theme or other in the wil=
d,
>> I
>> >> encourage
>> >> > them to do the same thing: theme modus instead of purely standalone.
>> If
>> >> I found a
>> >> > theme in the wild that was modus based, I'd be way more likely to t=
ry
>> it
>> >> than not.
>> >>
>> >> By the way, I wish there was a simple way to "theme" a theme.  Modus =
has
>> >> broad customization options but not a way to override individual faces
>> >> AFAICT?
>>
>> You /can/ adjust faces of a theme destructively.  I just tried out
>>
>> (load-theme 'wombat)
>> (custom-theme-set-faces
>>  'wombat
>>  '(cursor ((nil (:background "blue"))))
>>  `(fringe ((nil (:background "red")))))
>>
>> Note that loading the theme resets the changes!
>>
>> >> In other words, I think there should exist a `define-derived-theme'
>> >> function.  I bet I wasn't the only user who had to cook up their own
>> >> version of such a thing :-).
>>
>> That would be neat to have.  I experimented with it briefly, and it
>> seems that the main issue is that themes are currently very
>> file-oriented, so to pick up on the derived theme, you would have to
>> place it in the right directory, in a separate file, instead of just
>> calling a `define-derived-theme' function/macro in your init.el.
>>
>> >
>> > You can use modus-themes-theme to derive a new theme and override faces
>> and
>> > add new ones.
>> >
>> >
>> https://protesilaos.com/emacs/modus-themes#h:412e3017-81fe-4a95-97a6-225=
de1867757:~:text=3DThe%20standard%2Dthemes%2Dcustom,of%20the%20active%20the=
me
>> > .
>> >
>> > Prot's refined ef-themes now derived from modus-themes uses this featu=
re.
>>
>> But this has the same restrictions as what I mentioned above, right?
>>
>
> Theming can certainly use some refinements.  One can add their own stuff =
to
> `custom-theme-load-path` but I haven't tried.  I use modus-themes with
> basic customizations and add whatever other faces I need in
> `modus-themes-after-load-theme-hook` and that gets called just fine
> switching from dark to light or any other modus-based theme.  Way more
> convenient for me than hacking themes from scratch.

But that returns back to (one of) my point(s) that it seems like we
should rather work on upstreaming this kind of flexibility, to make it
accessible for all themes, instead of stacking more layers on existing
layers.  In my experience, upstreaming usually results in general
simplifications, because other parts of Emacs can also be updated that
packages usually have to accept as given.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#79696; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 79696 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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In-Reply-To: <87bjlgw6ij.fsf@HIDDEN>
From: =?UTF-8?Q?St=C3=A9phane_Marks?= <shipmints@HIDDEN>
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2025 15:54:51 -0500
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Subject: Re: bug#79696: [wishlist] Make (some) built-in themes be built on top
 of Modus themes
To: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN>
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 =?UTF-8?Q?Elijah_Gabe_P=C3=A9rez?= <eg642616@HIDDEN>,
 Augusto Stoffel <arstoffel@HIDDEN>,
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--00000000000090b7920642df29a2
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Wed, Nov 5, 2025 at 3:48=E2=80=AFPM Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN=
t> wrote:

> St=C3=A9phane Marks <shipmints@HIDDEN> writes:
>
> > On Wed, Nov 5, 2025 at 3:16=E2=80=AFAM Augusto Stoffel <arstoffel@gmail=
.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> On Sat, 25 Oct 2025 at 15:52, St=C3=A9phane Marks <shipmints@HIDDEN=
>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Whenever I see people discuss some custom theme or other in the wild=
,
> I
> >> encourage
> >> > them to do the same thing: theme modus instead of purely standalone.
> If
> >> I found a
> >> > theme in the wild that was modus based, I'd be way more likely to tr=
y
> it
> >> than not.
> >>
> >> By the way, I wish there was a simple way to "theme" a theme.  Modus h=
as
> >> broad customization options but not a way to override individual faces
> >> AFAICT?
>
> You /can/ adjust faces of a theme destructively.  I just tried out
>
> (load-theme 'wombat)
> (custom-theme-set-faces
>  'wombat
>  '(cursor ((nil (:background "blue"))))
>  `(fringe ((nil (:background "red")))))
>
> Note that loading the theme resets the changes!
>
> >> In other words, I think there should exist a `define-derived-theme'
> >> function.  I bet I wasn't the only user who had to cook up their own
> >> version of such a thing :-).
>
> That would be neat to have.  I experimented with it briefly, and it
> seems that the main issue is that themes are currently very
> file-oriented, so to pick up on the derived theme, you would have to
> place it in the right directory, in a separate file, instead of just
> calling a `define-derived-theme' function/macro in your init.el.
>
> >
> > You can use modus-themes-theme to derive a new theme and override faces
> and
> > add new ones.
> >
> >
> https://protesilaos.com/emacs/modus-themes#h:412e3017-81fe-4a95-97a6-225d=
e1867757:~:text=3DThe%20standard%2Dthemes%2Dcustom,of%20the%20active%20them=
e
> > .
> >
> > Prot's refined ef-themes now derived from modus-themes uses this featur=
e.
>
> But this has the same restrictions as what I mentioned above, right?
>

Theming can certainly use some refinements.  One can add their own stuff to
`custom-theme-load-path` but I haven't tried.  I use modus-themes with
basic customizations and add whatever other faces I need in
`modus-themes-after-load-theme-hook` and that gets called just fine
switching from dark to light or any other modus-based theme.  Way more
convenient for me than hacking themes from scratch.

--00000000000090b7920642df29a2
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon=
t-family:monospace"><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">=
On Wed, Nov 5, 2025 at 3:48=E2=80=AFPM Philip Kaludercic &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:philipk@HIDDEN">philipk@HIDDEN</a>&gt; wrote:</span></div></div=
><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><blockquote class=3D"gmai=
l_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,20=
4,204);padding-left:1ex">St=C3=A9phane Marks &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:shipmint=
s@HIDDEN" target=3D"_blank">shipmints@HIDDEN</a>&gt; writes:<br>
<br>
&gt; On Wed, Nov 5, 2025 at 3:16=E2=80=AFAM Augusto Stoffel &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:arstoffel@HIDDEN" target=3D"_blank">arstoffel@HIDDEN</a>&gt; w=
rote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; On Sat, 25 Oct 2025 at 15:52, St=C3=A9phane Marks &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:shipmints@HIDDEN" target=3D"_blank">shipmints@HIDDEN</a>&gt; wr=
ote:<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; Whenever I see people discuss some custom theme or other in t=
he wild, I<br>
&gt;&gt; encourage<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; them to do the same thing: theme modus instead of purely stan=
dalone. If<br>
&gt;&gt; I found a<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; theme in the wild that was modus based, I&#39;d be way more l=
ikely to try it<br>
&gt;&gt; than not.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; By the way, I wish there was a simple way to &quot;theme&quot; a t=
heme.=C2=A0 Modus has<br>
&gt;&gt; broad customization options but not a way to override individual f=
aces<br>
&gt;&gt; AFAICT?<br>
<br>
You /can/ adjust faces of a theme destructively.=C2=A0 I just tried out<br>
<br>
(load-theme &#39;wombat)<br>
(custom-theme-set-faces<br>
=C2=A0&#39;wombat<br>
=C2=A0&#39;(cursor ((nil (:background &quot;blue&quot;))))<br>
=C2=A0`(fringe ((nil (:background &quot;red&quot;)))))<br>
<br>
Note that loading the theme resets the changes!<br>
<br>
&gt;&gt; In other words, I think there should exist a `define-derived-theme=
&#39;<br>
&gt;&gt; function.=C2=A0 I bet I wasn&#39;t the only user who had to cook u=
p their own<br>
&gt;&gt; version of such a thing :-).<br>
<br>
That would be neat to have.=C2=A0 I experimented with it briefly, and it<br=
>
seems that the main issue is that themes are currently very<br>
file-oriented, so to pick up on the derived theme, you would have to<br>
place it in the right directory, in a separate file, instead of just<br>
calling a `define-derived-theme&#39; function/macro in your init.el.<br>
<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; You can use modus-themes-theme to derive a new theme and override face=
s and<br>
&gt; add new ones.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://protesilaos.com/emacs/modus-themes#h:412e3017-81fe-=
4a95-97a6-225de1867757:~:text=3DThe%20standard%2Dthemes%2Dcustom,of%20the%2=
0active%20theme" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://protesilaos.c=
om/emacs/modus-themes#h:412e3017-81fe-4a95-97a6-225de1867757:~:text=3DThe%2=
0standard%2Dthemes%2Dcustom,of%20the%20active%20theme</a><br>
&gt; .<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Prot&#39;s refined ef-themes now derived from modus-themes uses this f=
eature.<br>
<br>
But this has the same restrictions as what I mentioned above, right?<br></b=
lockquote><div><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:=
monospace">Theming can certainly use some refinements.=C2=A0 One can add th=
eir own stuff to `custom-theme-load-path` but I haven&#39;t tried.=C2=A0 I =
use modus-themes with basic customizations and add whatever other faces I n=
eed in `modus-themes-after-load-theme-hook` and that gets called just fine =
switching from dark to light or any other modus-based theme.=C2=A0 Way more=
 convenient for me than hacking themes from scratch.</div></div></div>

--00000000000090b7920642df29a2--




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#79696; Package emacs. Full text available.

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From: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN>
To: =?utf-8?Q?St=C3=A9phane?= Marks <shipmints@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#79696: [wishlist] Make (some) built-in themes be built on
 top of Modus themes
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 Elijah Gabe =?utf-8?Q?P=C3=A9r?= =?utf-8?Q?ez?= <eg642616@HIDDEN>,
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St=C3=A9phane Marks <shipmints@HIDDEN> writes:

> On Wed, Nov 5, 2025 at 3:16=E2=80=AFAM Augusto Stoffel <arstoffel@HIDDEN=
om> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 25 Oct 2025 at 15:52, St=C3=A9phane Marks <shipmints@HIDDEN> =
wrote:
>>
>> > Whenever I see people discuss some custom theme or other in the wild, I
>> encourage
>> > them to do the same thing: theme modus instead of purely standalone. If
>> I found a
>> > theme in the wild that was modus based, I'd be way more likely to try =
it
>> than not.
>>
>> By the way, I wish there was a simple way to "theme" a theme.  Modus has
>> broad customization options but not a way to override individual faces
>> AFAICT?

You /can/ adjust faces of a theme destructively.  I just tried out

(load-theme 'wombat)
(custom-theme-set-faces
 'wombat
 '(cursor ((nil (:background "blue"))))
 `(fringe ((nil (:background "red")))))

Note that loading the theme resets the changes!

>> In other words, I think there should exist a `define-derived-theme'
>> function.  I bet I wasn't the only user who had to cook up their own
>> version of such a thing :-).

That would be neat to have.  I experimented with it briefly, and it
seems that the main issue is that themes are currently very
file-oriented, so to pick up on the derived theme, you would have to
place it in the right directory, in a separate file, instead of just
calling a `define-derived-theme' function/macro in your init.el.

>
> You can use modus-themes-theme to derive a new theme and override faces a=
nd
> add new ones.
>
> https://protesilaos.com/emacs/modus-themes#h:412e3017-81fe-4a95-97a6-225d=
e1867757:~:text=3DThe%20standard%2Dthemes%2Dcustom,of%20the%20active%20theme
> .
>
> Prot's refined ef-themes now derived from modus-themes uses this feature.

But this has the same restrictions as what I mentioned above, right?




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#79696; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 79696 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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In-Reply-To: <87wm44evwy.fsf@HIDDEN>
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Subject: Re: bug#79696: [wishlist] Make (some) built-in themes be built on top
 of Modus themes
To: Augusto Stoffel <arstoffel@HIDDEN>
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 =?UTF-8?Q?Elijah_Gabe_P=C3=A9rez?= <eg642616@HIDDEN>, 79696 <at> debbugs.gnu.org,
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--00000000000083afce0642d73e11
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Wed, Nov 5, 2025 at 3:16=E2=80=AFAM Augusto Stoffel <arstoffel@HIDDEN=
> wrote:

> On Sat, 25 Oct 2025 at 15:52, St=C3=A9phane Marks <shipmints@HIDDEN> w=
rote:
>
> > Whenever I see people discuss some custom theme or other in the wild, I
> encourage
> > them to do the same thing: theme modus instead of purely standalone. If
> I found a
> > theme in the wild that was modus based, I'd be way more likely to try i=
t
> than not.
>
> By the way, I wish there was a simple way to "theme" a theme.  Modus has
> broad customization options but not a way to override individual faces
> AFAICT?
>
> In other words, I think there should exist a `define-derived-theme'
> function.  I bet I wasn't the only user who had to cook up their own
> version of such a thing :-).
>

You can use modus-themes-theme to derive a new theme and override faces and
add new ones.

https://protesilaos.com/emacs/modus-themes#h:412e3017-81fe-4a95-97a6-225de1=
867757:~:text=3DThe%20standard%2Dthemes%2Dcustom,of%20the%20active%20theme
.

Prot's refined ef-themes now derived from modus-themes uses this feature.

--00000000000083afce0642d73e11
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon=
t-family:monospace"><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">=
On Wed, Nov 5, 2025 at 3:16=E2=80=AFAM Augusto Stoffel &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:arstoffel@HIDDEN">arstoffel@HIDDEN</a>&gt; wrote:</span></div></div=
><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><blockquote class=3D"gmai=
l_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,20=
4,204);padding-left:1ex">On Sat, 25 Oct 2025 at 15:52, St=C3=A9phane Marks =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:shipmints@HIDDEN" target=3D"_blank">shipmints@gmai=
l.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
&gt; Whenever I see people discuss some custom theme or other in the wild, =
I encourage<br>
&gt; them to do the same thing: theme modus instead of purely standalone. I=
f I found a<br>
&gt; theme in the wild that was modus based, I&#39;d be way more likely to =
try it than not.<br>
<br>
By the way, I wish there was a simple way to &quot;theme&quot; a theme.=C2=
=A0 Modus has<br>
broad customization options but not a way to override individual faces<br>
AFAICT?<br>
<br>
In other words, I think there should exist a `define-derived-theme&#39;<br>
function.=C2=A0 I bet I wasn&#39;t the only user who had to cook up their o=
wn<br>
version of such a thing :-).<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div class=3D"g=
mail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospace">You can use modus-themes-them=
e to derive a new theme and override faces and add new ones.</div><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospace"><br></div><div class=3D=
"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospace"><a href=3D"https://protesil=
aos.com/emacs/modus-themes#h:412e3017-81fe-4a95-97a6-225de1867757:~:text=3D=
The%20standard%2Dthemes%2Dcustom,of%20the%20active%20theme">https://protesi=
laos.com/emacs/modus-themes#h:412e3017-81fe-4a95-97a6-225de1867757:~:text=
=3DThe%20standard%2Dthemes%2Dcustom,of%20the%20active%20theme</a>.</div><di=
v class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospace"><br></div><div cl=
ass=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospace">Prot&#39;s refined ef=
-themes now derived from modus-themes uses this feature.</div></div></div>

--00000000000083afce0642d73e11--




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#79696; Package emacs. Full text available.

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From: Augusto Stoffel <arstoffel@HIDDEN>
To: =?utf-8?Q?St=C3=A9phane?= Marks <shipmints@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#79696: [wishlist] Make (some) built-in themes be built on
 top of Modus themes
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On Sat, 25 Oct 2025 at 15:52, St=C3=A9phane Marks <shipmints@HIDDEN> wro=
te:

> Whenever I see people discuss some custom theme or other in the wild, I e=
ncourage
> them to do the same thing: theme modus instead of purely standalone. If I=
 found a
> theme in the wild that was modus based, I'd be way more likely to try it =
than not.

By the way, I wish there was a simple way to "theme" a theme.  Modus has
broad customization options but not a way to override individual faces
AFAICT?

In other words, I think there should exist a `define-derived-theme'
function.  I bet I wasn't the only user who had to cook up their own
version of such a thing :-).




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#79696; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 79696 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: =?utf-8?Q?Elijah_Gabe_P=C3=A9rez?= <eg642616@HIDDEN>
To: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#79696: [wishlist] Make (some) built-in themes be built on
 top of Modus themes
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Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN> writes:

> But wouldn't this effectively simplify down to just having a regular
> theme?

Probably, but many of these non-modus themes does not support some
built-in faces (e.g. minibuffer-nonselected).

Perhaps it would be better to add those missing (core) faces to each of
these themes, it would work for a while, but when more unique faces are
added to core, it will be difficult to maintain.

I will see what i can do about this.

> BTW you could also take my proposal to merge the changes introduced by
> Modus Themes deeper into Emacs' theme system (merging changes that
> would make general sense to have into the core), instead of having to
> build themes on-top of other themes.

Yes, but i think it would take a long time to do.

>> Well then, I should better contribute the themes I already have to
>> standard-themes.
>
> I am confused, what themes do you mean?  

I already have the wombat and adwaita themes (partially) rewritten using
modus.


-- 
- E.G via Gnus and Org.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#79696; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 79696 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN>
To: Elijah Gabe =?utf-8?Q?P=C3=A9rez?= <eg642616@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#79696: [wishlist] Make (some) built-in themes be built on
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Elijah Gabe P=C3=A9rez <eg642616@HIDDEN> writes:

> Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN> writes:
>
>> Where "these themes" are the remaining non-modus based, built-in themes,
>> right?
>
> Yes.
>
>>> I'm not sure if they are really actively maintained, since there are
>>> already many built-in faces that are not supported by them
>>> (e.g. tab-line/bar faces are not themed), which generates visual
>>> inconsistencies and make it look ugly.  It would be better to find an
>>> easier way to make these themes more visually appealing and complete.
>>
>> Officially they should all be maintained.  Themes like light-blue, that
>> were officially unmaintained were marked as deprecated, for instance.
>>
>> But one should also be careful not to change too much.  I already find
>> the change from the actual default non-theme to the current modus-based
>> standard-themes too much, and as beauty is in the eye of the beholder,
>> we should be careful not to introduce too many unnecessary changes.
>
> Yes, probably the mechanism that modus uses to create themes should be
> independent, by default customizing only some core faces that do not
> inherit from any other and avoiding opinionated customizations that
> perhaps not many themes would prefer.

But wouldn't this effectively simplify down to just having a regular
theme?  BTW you could also take my proposal to merge the changes
introduced by Modus Themes deeper into Emacs' theme system (merging
changes that would make general sense to have into the core), instead of
having to build themes on-top of other themes.

>>> I agree, maybe do something similar to what autothemer and Modus do,
>>> define a color palette that each theme can modify individually, This
>>> would prevent many faces from having to inherit from many others.
>
> [...]
>
>> I believe he and I have wrote about this before, but it slipped under my
>> radar since then.
>
> Well then, I should better contribute the themes I already have to
> standard-themes.

I am confused, what themes do you mean?=20=20




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#79696; Package emacs. Full text available.

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From: =?utf-8?Q?Elijah_Gabe_P=C3=A9rez?= <eg642616@HIDDEN>
To: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#79696: [wishlist] Make (some) built-in themes be built on
 top of Modus themes
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 Content preview:  Philip Kaludercic writes: > Where "these themes" are the remaining
    non-modus based, built-in themes, > right? Yes. 
 
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Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN> writes:

> Where "these themes" are the remaining non-modus based, built-in themes,
> right?

Yes.

>> I'm not sure if they are really actively maintained, since there are
>> already many built-in faces that are not supported by them
>> (e.g. tab-line/bar faces are not themed), which generates visual
>> inconsistencies and make it look ugly.  It would be better to find an
>> easier way to make these themes more visually appealing and complete.
>
> Officially they should all be maintained.  Themes like light-blue, that
> were officially unmaintained were marked as deprecated, for instance.
>
> But one should also be careful not to change too much.  I already find
> the change from the actual default non-theme to the current modus-based
> standard-themes too much, and as beauty is in the eye of the beholder,
> we should be careful not to introduce too many unnecessary changes.

Yes, probably the mechanism that modus uses to create themes should be
independent, by default customizing only some core faces that do not
inherit from any other and avoiding opinionated customizations that
perhaps not many themes would prefer.

>> I agree, maybe do something similar to what autothemer and Modus do,
>> define a color palette that each theme can modify individually, This
>> would prevent many faces from having to inherit from many others.

[...]

> I believe he and I have wrote about this before, but it slipped under my
> radar since then.

Well then, I should better contribute the themes I already have to
standard-themes.

-- 
- E.G via Gnus and Org.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#79696; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 79696 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN>
To: "Elijah G." <eg642616@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#79696: [wishlist] Make (some) built-in themes be built on
 top of Modus themes
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"Elijah G." <eg642616@HIDDEN> writes:

> Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN> writes:
>
>> Can you clarify what your concern is?
>
> My concern is to prevent these themes from becoming
> unmaintained/obsolete, 

Where "these themes" are the remaining non-modus based, built-in themes,
right?

>                        I'm not sure if they are really actively
> maintained, since there are already many built-in faces that are not
> supported by them (e.g. tab-line/bar faces are not themed), which
> generates visual inconsistencies and make it look ugly.  It would be
> better to find an easier way to make these themes more visually
> appealing and complete.

Officially they should all be maintained.  Themes like light-blue, that
were officially unmaintained were marked as deprecated, for instance.

But one should also be careful not to change too much.  I already find
the change from the actual default non-theme to the current modus-based
standard-themes too much, and as beauty is in the eye of the beholder,
we should be careful not to introduce too many unnecessary changes.

>
>> I agree that in the short term
>> rebasing all themes on Modus would be faster, but the theme is
>> relativly heavyweight and specifies faces for a number of packages
>> that are not even in ELPA.  My hope is that by adding more semantic
>> faces to the core (that we can backport using Compat), that we can at
>> least convince larger packages to adopt these and suggest it to all
>> new additions to ELPA as well.  The consequence is that it should be
>> easier for everyone to creat themes, as ideally you wouldn't have to
>> care about custom faces defined just by one theme.  This is assuming
>> that the large number of faces that packages define is a symptom of a
>> real need to express _semantic_ qualities visually, that the core is
>> not supplying presently.  If I am correct, this would also help
>> towards creating more consistent semantic user interfaces, even for
>> little scripts that are not on ELPA or thr Modus Themes know about.
>
> I agree, maybe do something similar to what autothemer and Modus do,
> define a color palette that each theme can modify individually, This
> would prevent many faces from having to inherit from many others.

Crucially, I am not proposing a colour-palette, but faces with semantic
meanings.  We already have a few like `warning', `success', `match',
`highlight', `shadow', and the question would be to find reasonable
candidates to add as well.

> But I would like to know if Prot also has any ideas on how this can be
> improved.

I believe he and I have wrote about this before, but it slipped under my
radar since then.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#79696; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 79696 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: "Elijah G." <eg642616@HIDDEN>
To: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#79696: [wishlist] Make (some) built-in themes be built on
 top of Modus themes
In-Reply-To: <7250E7BC-DC42-4062-B68E-3ABAE7217110@HIDDEN> (Philip
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Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN> writes:

> Can you clarify what your concern is?

My concern is to prevent these themes from becoming
unmaintained/obsolete, I'm not sure if they are really actively
maintained, since there are already many built-in faces that are not
supported by them (e.g. tab-line/bar faces are not themed), which
generates visual inconsistencies and make it look ugly.  It would be
better to find an easier way to make these themes more visually
appealing and complete.


> I agree that in the short term
> rebasing all themes on Modus would be faster, but the theme is
> relativly heavyweight and specifies faces for a number of packages
> that are not even in ELPA.  My hope is that by adding more semantic
> faces to the core (that we can backport using Compat), that we can at
> least convince larger packages to adopt these and suggest it to all
> new additions to ELPA as well.  The consequence is that it should be
> easier for everyone to creat themes, as ideally you wouldn't have to
> care about custom faces defined just by one theme.  This is assuming
> that the large number of faces that packages define is a symptom of a
> real need to express _semantic_ qualities visually, that the core is
> not supplying presently.  If I am correct, this would also help
> towards creating more consistent semantic user interfaces, even for
> little scripts that are not on ELPA or thr Modus Themes know about.

I agree, maybe do something similar to what autothemer and Modus do,
define a color palette that each theme can modify individually, This
would prevent many faces from having to inherit from many others.

But I would like to know if Prot also has any ideas on how this can be
improved.

-- 
- E.G via GNU Emacs Android port.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#79696; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 79696 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN>
To: "Elijah G." <eg642616@HIDDEN>
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Can you clarify what your concern is?  I agree that in the short term rebas=
ing all themes on Modus would be faster, but the theme is relativly heavywe=
ight and specifies faces for a number of packages that are not even in ELPA=
=2E  My hope is that by adding more semantic faces to the core (that we can=
 backport using Compat), that we can at least convince larger packages to a=
dopt these and suggest it to all new additions to ELPA as well=2E  The cons=
equence is that it should be easier for everyone to creat themes, as ideall=
y you wouldn't have to care about custom faces defined just by one theme=2E=
  This is assuming that the large number of faces that packages define is a=
 symptom of a real need to express _semantic_ qualities visually, that the =
core is not supplying presently=2E  If I am correct, this would also help t=
owards creating more consistent semantic user interfaces, even for little s=
cripts that are not on ELPA or thr Modus Themes know about=2E

On 28 October 2025 04:05:30 CET, "Elijah G=2E" <eg642616@gmail=2Ecom> wrot=
e:
>Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo=2Enet> writes:
>
>[=2E=2E=2E]
>
>> A suggestion I have made in the past was to identify the features in a
>> theme like modus-themes uses and then add the necessary semantic faces
>> to the core, that most packages have to re-invest=2E  I sadly never got
>> around to doing this, but it seems like in the long-term ensuring that
>> the built-in faces are sufficient for most themes would scale better
>> than having to manually tail them in a large theme like modus themes=2E
>
>I think it's also a good idea, however I'm not sure if this will ensure
>that other third-party faces can also be supported, Modus already
>supports a large number of these=2E  Also, basing it on modus will give u=
s
>a better customization for each theme, so for the moment I think using
>modus would be the solution, however, I wish creating themes was as
>effective as Modus=2E
>

Sent from my phone




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#79696; Package emacs. Full text available.

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From: "Elijah G." <eg642616@HIDDEN>
To: Protesilaos Stavrou <prot@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#79696: [wishlist] Make (some) built-in themes be built on
 top of Modus themes
In-Reply-To: <96e8656208c77a10ee0f9e95f3cbc4bd@HIDDEN> (Protesilaos
 Stavrou's message of "Mon, 27 Oct 2025 07:37:40 +0200")
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Protesilaos Stavrou <prot@HIDDEN> writes:
>
> If people are okay with it, then I am fine too. And I am happy to help
> however I can.
>

Great, so if there are no objections (and after Modus 5.0.0 arrives), I
can start rewriting a few (wombat and adwaita) to see how well they
would be accepted.


-- 
- E.G via GNU Emacs Android port.




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Message received at 79696 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: "Elijah G." <eg642616@HIDDEN>
To: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#79696: [wishlist] Make (some) built-in themes be built on
 top of Modus themes
In-Reply-To: <87ecqps7yi.fsf@HIDDEN> (Philip Kaludercic's message of "Sun, 
 26 Oct 2025 20:51:07 +0000")
References: <878qgy7ol3.fsf@HIDDEN> <87ecqps7yi.fsf@HIDDEN>
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Philip Kaludercic <philipk@HIDDEN> writes:

[...]

> A suggestion I have made in the past was to identify the features in a
> theme like modus-themes uses and then add the necessary semantic faces
> to the core, that most packages have to re-invest.  I sadly never got
> around to doing this, but it seems like in the long-term ensuring that
> the built-in faces are sufficient for most themes would scale better
> than having to manually tail them in a large theme like modus themes.

I think it's also a good idea, however I'm not sure if this will ensure
that other third-party faces can also be supported, Modus already
supports a large number of these.  Also, basing it on modus will give us
a better customization for each theme, so for the moment I think using
modus would be the solution, however, I wish creating themes was as
effective as Modus.

-- 
- E.G via GNU Emacs Android port.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
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From: Protesilaos Stavrou <prot@HIDDEN>
To: "Elijah G." <eg642616@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#79696: [wishlist] Make (some) built-in themes be built on top
 of Modus themes
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> From: "Elijah G." <eg642616@HIDDEN>
> Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2025 11:18:43 -0600
> 
> Protesilaos Stavrou <prot@HIDDEN> writes:
> 
>>>> [ Hello, i'm starting this for when modus-themes 4.8.1
>>>>   arrives to emacs git. ]
>> 
>> This will actually be version 5.0.0 of the modus-themes. I believe I
>> am done with the development work and will check for any remaining
>> issues. I might make a release in the coming week.
> 
> Great, thank you for all the work you've done in modus-themes.

You are welcome!

> [... 10 lines elided]

>> I could try this, but I will not make any promises. Firstly, I do not
>> use those other themes and do not have a good intuition of what works
>> and what does not work for them. Secondly, I cannot tell how much
>> time it would even take me. Thirdly, it is hard to change themes in
>> such a thoroughgoing way without upsetting their existing users---I
>> would rather not have to deal with the resulting back-and-forth for a
>> project I do not maintain.
> 
> Well, I was actually willing to do this (at least for a few), I
> currently have the wombat theme rewritten using modus.
> 
> I don't know if the other theme maintainers (and their users) agree
> with this idea, but I think it would be worth it, it would be the
> closest we would have to ef-themes and standard-themes in core.

If people are okay with it, then I am fine too. And I am happy to help
however I can.

> What I find complicated is creating the appropriate color palette for
> each theme.

This is the most difficult part because to make the colours look right
you need to have a good sense of the existing style. It is why I do not
have the intuitions right now. But I can give it a try and eventually be
in a position to make suggestions. This is how I ended up with the
standard-themes, for example.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#79696; Package emacs. Full text available.

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To: Elijah Gabe =?utf-8?Q?P=C3=A9rez?= <eg642616@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#79696: [wishlist] Make (some) built-in themes be built on
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Elijah Gabe P=C3=A9rez <eg642616@HIDDEN> writes:

> [ Hello, i'm starting this for when modus-themes 4.8.1
>   arrives to emacs git. ]
>
> Some themes included in Emacs are not entirely complete, and usually
> most faces are lost in these themes.
>
> The way I have found to solve this is to rewrite the themes on top of
> modus-themes.

A suggestion I have made in the past was to identify the features in a
theme like modus-themes uses and then add the necessary semantic faces
to the core, that most packages have to re-invest.  I sadly never got
around to doing this, but it seems like in the long-term ensuring that
the built-in faces are sufficient for most themes would scale better
than having to manually tail them in a large theme like modus themes.

> Having modus themes as a basis ensures that all the faces supported by
> it, are not lost in the created theme and with the respective colors of
> the new theme, this adds better visual consistency.
>
> Here is a screenshot of the wombat theme (modified by me, it's not
> complete yet) using modus as base:
>
> x




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From: "Elijah G." <eg642616@HIDDEN>
To: Protesilaos Stavrou <prot@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#79696: [wishlist] Make (some) built-in themes be built on
 top of Modus themes
In-Reply-To: <8cb819e3ed4e94ce07f815d7e237c7c4@HIDDEN> (Protesilaos
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Protesilaos Stavrou <prot@HIDDEN> writes:

>>> [ Hello, i'm starting this for when modus-themes 4.8.1
>>>   arrives to emacs git. ]
>
> This will actually be version 5.0.0 of the modus-themes. I believe I
> am
> done with the development work and will check for any remaining
> issues.
> I might make a release in the coming week.

Great, thank you for all the work you've done in modus-themes.

[...]

>> It's a good idea.  Prot's contributions via modus-themes (and its
>> sister
>> themes like ef-themes) are excellent starting points and he's taken
>> a lot
>> of care to ensure excellent coverage for Emacs built-ins and also a
>> number
>> of very popular packages.
>
> I could try this, but I will not make any promises. Firstly, I do not
> use those other themes and do not have a good intuition of what works
> and what does not work for them. Secondly, I cannot tell how much time
> it would even take me. Thirdly, it is hard to change themes in such a
> thoroughgoing way without upsetting their existing users---I would
> rather not have to deal with the resulting back-and-forth for a
> project
> I do not maintain.

Well, I was actually willing to do this (at least for a few), I
currently have the wombat theme rewritten using modus.

I don't know if the other theme maintainers (and their users) agree with
this idea, but I think it would be worth it, it would be the closest we
would have to ef-themes and standard-themes in core.


What I find complicated is creating the appropriate color palette for
each theme.

-- 
- E.G via GNU Emacs Android port.




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
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Subject: Re: bug#79696: [wishlist] Make (some) built-in themes be built on top
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> From: Rudolf Adamkovič <rudolf@HIDDEN>
> Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2025 23:00:38 +0200

> [... 7 lines elided]

>> Prot's contributions via modus-themes (and its sister
>> themes like ef-themes) ...
> 
> Also Doric themes are great (I use Water and Obsidian).  Prot is now
> rebasing all of his themes on Modus [1],
> 
> [1] 
> https://protesilaos.com/codelog/2025-10-01-emacs-modus-framework-ef-built-on-top/

The doric-themes will remain their own thing, at least for the time
being. The way I handle things there is very different to how I do it
with the modus-themes. Though, yes, the ef-themes and standard-themes
are already built on top of Modus. I will publish the new major versions
in the coming days.

That blog post will eventually be out-of-date. The source for interested
parties is the manual of the Modus themes, specifically this section:
<https://protesilaos.com/emacs/modus-themes#h:86eb375b-9be4-43ce-879a-0686a524a63b>.

> and I hope to see Ef and Doric built into Emacs one day, following 
> Modus.

I am fine if this happens, though it is not my decision to make. The
themes being available on GNU ELPA is already helpful and I have a good
time working on them.




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From: Protesilaos Stavrou <prot@HIDDEN>
To: =?UTF-8?Q?St=C3=A9phane_Marks?= <shipmints@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#79696: [wishlist] Make (some) built-in themes be built on top
 of Modus themes
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Hello folks,

> From: Stéphane Marks <shipmints@HIDDEN>
> Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2025 15:52:45 -0400
> 
> On Sat, Oct 25, 2025 at 3:46 PM Elijah Gabe Pérez <eg642616@HIDDEN>
> wrote:
> 
>> [ Hello, i'm starting this for when modus-themes 4.8.1
>>   arrives to emacs git. ]

This will actually be version 5.0.0 of the modus-themes. I believe I am
done with the development work and will check for any remaining issues.
I might make a release in the coming week.

>> Some themes included in Emacs are not entirely complete, and usually
>> most faces are lost in these themes.
>> 
>> The way I have found to solve this is to rewrite the themes on top of
>> modus-themes.
>> 
>> Having modus themes as a basis ensures that all the faces supported by
>> it, are not lost in the created theme and with the respective colors 
>> of
>> the new theme, this adds better visual consistency.
>> 
> 
> It's a good idea.  Prot's contributions via modus-themes (and its 
> sister
> themes like ef-themes) are excellent starting points and he's taken a 
> lot
> of care to ensure excellent coverage for Emacs built-ins and also a 
> number
> of very popular packages.

I could try this, but I will not make any promises. Firstly, I do not
use those other themes and do not have a good intuition of what works
and what does not work for them. Secondly, I cannot tell how much time
it would even take me. Thirdly, it is hard to change themes in such a
thoroughgoing way without upsetting their existing users---I would
rather not have to deal with the resulting back-and-forth for a project
I do not maintain.

All the best,
Prot




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#79696; Package emacs. Full text available.

Message received at 79696 <at> debbugs.gnu.org:


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From: Rudolf =?utf-8?Q?Adamkovi=C4=8D?= <rudolf@HIDDEN>
To: =?utf-8?Q?St=C3=A9phane?= Marks <shipmints@HIDDEN>, Elijah Gabe
 =?utf-8?Q?P=C3=A9rez?= <eg642616@HIDDEN>
Subject: Re: bug#79696: [wishlist] Make (some) built-in themes be built on
 top of Modus themes
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St=C3=A9phane Marks <shipmints@HIDDEN> writes:

> It's a good idea.

Yes!

> Prot's contributions via modus-themes (and its sister
> themes like ef-themes) ...

Also Doric themes are great (I use Water and Obsidian).  Prot is now
rebasing all of his themes on Modus [1], and I hope to see Ef and Doric
built into Emacs one day, following Modus.

[1] https://protesilaos.com/codelog/2025-10-01-emacs-modus-framework-ef-bui=
lt-on-top/

Rudy
--=20
"'Obvious' is all too often a synonym for 'wrong'."

--- Jeff Erickson, Algorithms, 2019

Rudolf Adamkovi=C4=8D <rudolf@HIDDEN> [he/him]
http://adamkovic.org




Information forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#79696; Package emacs. Full text available.

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Subject: Re: bug#79696: [wishlist] Make (some) built-in themes be built on top
 of Modus themes
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On Sat, Oct 25, 2025 at 3:46=E2=80=AFPM Elijah Gabe P=C3=A9rez <eg642616@gm=
ail.com>
wrote:

> [ Hello, i'm starting this for when modus-themes 4.8.1
>   arrives to emacs git. ]
>
> Some themes included in Emacs are not entirely complete, and usually
> most faces are lost in these themes.
>
> The way I have found to solve this is to rewrite the themes on top of
> modus-themes.
>
> Having modus themes as a basis ensures that all the faces supported by
> it, are not lost in the created theme and with the respective colors of
> the new theme, this adds better visual consistency.
>

It's a good idea.  Prot's contributions via modus-themes (and its sister
themes like ef-themes) are excellent starting points and he's taken a lot
of care to ensure excellent coverage for Emacs built-ins and also a number
of very popular packages.

Whenever I see people discuss some custom theme or other in the wild, I
encourage them to do the same thing: theme modus instead of
purely standalone. If I found a theme in the wild that was modus based, I'd
be way more likely to try it than not.

-St=C3=A9phane

--00000000000037e2c3064201031e
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"fon=
t-family:monospace"><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">=
On Sat, Oct 25, 2025 at 3:46=E2=80=AFPM Elijah Gabe P=C3=A9rez &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:eg642616@HIDDEN">eg642616@HIDDEN</a>&gt; wrote:</span></di=
v></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rg=
b(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">[ Hello, i&#39;m starting this for when mo=
dus-themes 4.8.1<br>
=C2=A0 arrives to emacs git. ]<br>
<br>
Some themes included in Emacs are not entirely complete, and usually<br>
most faces are lost in these themes.<br>
<br>
The way I have found to solve this is to rewrite the themes on top of<br>
modus-themes.<br>
<br>
Having modus themes as a basis ensures that all the faces supported by<br>
it, are not lost in the created theme and with the respective colors of<br>
the new theme, this adds better visual consistency.<br></blockquote><div><b=
r></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospace">It&#39=
;s a good idea.=C2=A0 Prot&#39;s contributions via modus-themes (and its si=
ster themes like ef-themes) are excellent starting points and he&#39;s take=
n a lot of care to ensure excellent coverage for Emacs built-ins and also a=
 number of very popular packages.</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=
=3D"font-family:monospace"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"=
font-family:monospace">Whenever I see people discuss some custom theme or o=
ther in the wild, I encourage them to do the same thing: theme modus instea=
d=C2=A0of purely=C2=A0standalone. If I found a theme in the wild that was m=
odus based, I&#39;d be way more likely to try it than not.</div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospace"><br></div><div class=3D"=
gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:monospace">-St=C3=A9phane</div></div></=
div>

--00000000000037e2c3064201031e--




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--=-=-=
Content-Type: text/plain

[ Hello, i'm starting this for when modus-themes 4.8.1
  arrives to emacs git. ]

Some themes included in Emacs are not entirely complete, and usually
most faces are lost in these themes.

The way I have found to solve this is to rewrite the themes on top of
modus-themes.

Having modus themes as a basis ensures that all the faces supported by
it, are not lost in the created theme and with the respective colors of
the new theme, this adds better visual consistency.

Here is a screenshot of the wombat theme (modified by me, it's not
complete yet) using modus as base:


--=-=-=
Content-Type: image/png
Content-Disposition: inline; filename=with-modus.png
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Acknowledgement sent to Elijah Gabe Pérez <eg642616@HIDDEN>:
New bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN. Full text available.
Report forwarded to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:
bug#79696; Package emacs. Full text available.
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Last modified: Fri, 7 Nov 2025 18:15:01 UTC

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Copyright (C) 1999 Darren O. Benham, 1997 nCipher Corporation Ltd, 1994-97 Ian Jackson.