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Subject: bug#79866: 31.0.50; Gnus hangs on 'Reading active file' when launched in GUI mode
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Environment:

* GNU Emacs: 31.0.50
  Development version 20fd47e74134 on master branch; build date 2025-11-20.

* OS: macOS

* Launch methods tested: Terminal (GUI and non-GUI)

* Gnus: default setup (no configuration)

---

Steps to Reproduce =E2=80=93 Working Case (Terminal, no GUI):

1. Start Emacs in terminal without loading your init file:

   ```
   emacs -Q -nw --eval=3D"(gnus)"
   ```

2. Gnus will complain about missing configuration. Choose **continue (y)**.

3. If prompted about an auto-save file, answer **no (n)**.

4. You are now in the `*Group*` buffer.

5. Press `B` to switch backend, complete with `nntp` =E2=86=92 **RET**.

6. Fill in the server address: `news.gwene.org` =E2=86=92 **RET**.

7. Gnus echoes that it is opening and reading incrementally. You
should now see a new buffer: `Gnus: *Gnus Browse Server*`.


Expected Result:

Gnus connects and displays the `*Gnus Browse Server*` buffer correctly.

---

Steps to Reproduce =E2=80=93 Failing Case (GUI mode):

1. Start Emacs in GUI mode without loading your init file:

   ```
   emacs -Q --eval=3D"(gnus)"
   ```
2. Repeat steps 2=E2=80=935 from the working case.

3. At step 5, after hitting **RET**, Gnus hangs on:

   ```
   Reading active file
   ```

Observed Result:

* Gnus does not proceed past `Reading active file`.

Notes:

* Removing `-nw` (i.e., launching GUI) triggers the hang.
* No Gnus configuration is loaded; this happens on a clean environment.



In GNU Emacs 31.0.50 (build 5, aarch64-apple-darwin25.1.0, NS
 appkit-2685.20 Version 26.1 (Build 25B78)) of 2025-11-19 built on
 MacBook-Pro.local
Repository revision: 20fd47e741342e160d774ae6afee7182bba0de65
Repository branch: master
Windowing system distributor 'Apple', version 10.3.2685
System Description:  macOS 26.1

Configured using:
 'configure --with-mailutils --with-imagemagick --with-ns'

Configured features:
ACL GNUTLS IMAGEMAGICK LCMS2 LIBXML2 MODULES NOTIFY KQUEUE NS PDUMPER
PNG SQLITE3 THREADS TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS TREE_SITTER WEBP ZLIB

Important settings:
  value of $LANG: pt_BR.UTF-8
  locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix

Major mode: Markdown

Minor modes in effect:
  display-line-numbers-mode: t
  completion-preview-mode: t
  icomplete-vertical-mode: t
  icomplete-mode: t
  electric-pair-mode: t
  which-key-mode: t
  minibuffer-electric-default-mode: t
  minibuffer-depth-indicate-mode: t
  xterm-mouse-mode: t
  winner-mode: t
  save-place-mode: t
  savehist-mode: t
  repeat-mode: t
  recentf-mode: t
  global-auto-revert-mode: t
  tty-tip-mode: t
  pixel-scroll-precision-mode: t
  global-goto-address-mode: t
  goto-address-mode: t
  delete-selection-mode: t
  override-global-mode: t
  tooltip-mode: t
  global-eldoc-mode: t
  eldoc-mode: t
  show-paren-mode: t
  electric-indent-mode: t
  vc-auto-revert-mode: t
  mouse-wheel-mode: t
  tab-bar-history-mode: t
  tab-bar-mode: t
  menu-bar-mode: t
  file-name-shadow-mode: t
  global-font-lock-mode: t
  font-lock-mode: t
  minibuffer-nonselected-mode: t
  minibuffer-regexp-mode: t
  column-number-mode: t
  line-number-mode: t
  indent-tabs-mode: t
  transient-mark-mode: t
  auto-composition-mode: t
  auto-encryption-mode: t
  auto-compression-mode: t

Load-path shadows:
None found.

Features:
(shadow sort mail-extr emacsbug gnus-msg two-column help-fns radix-tree
whitespace face-remap ispell toml-ts-mode yaml-ts-mode html-ts-mode
sgml-mode facemenu markdown-ts-mode oc-basic org-element org-persist
org-id org-refile org-element-ast inline avl-tree generator ol-eww eww
vtable url-queue mm-url ol-rmail ol-mhe ol-irc ol-info ol-gnus nnselect
gnus-art mm-uu mml2015 mm-view mml-smime smime gnutls dig gnus-sum shr
pixel-fill kinsoku url-file svg dom gnus-group gnus-undo gnus-start
gnus-dbus dbus xml gnus-cloud nnimap nnmail mail-source utf7 nnoo
gnus-spec gnus-int gnus-range message sendmail yank-media puny rfc822
mml mml-sec mm-decode mm-bodies mm-encode mail-parse rfc2231 rfc2047
rfc2045 ietf-drums mailabbrev gmm-utils mailheader gnus-win ol-docview
doc-view jka-compr image-mode exif dired dired-loaddefs ol-bibtex bibtex
ol-bbdb ol-w3m ol-doi org-link-doi org ob ob-tangle ob-ref ob-lob
ob-table ob-exp org-macro org-src sh-script smie executable ob-comint
org-pcomplete org-list org-footnote org-faces org-entities noutline
outline org-version ob-emacs-lisp ob-core ob-eval org-cycle org-table ol
org-fold org-fold-core org-keys oc org-loaddefs cal-menu calendar
cal-loaddefs org-compat org-macs cursor-sensor help-at-pt
display-line-numbers completion-preview eglot external-completion
jsonrpc xref diff diff-mode track-changes ert ewoc debug backtrace
find-func imenu checkdoc lisp-mnt flymake warnings private tramp-sh
epa-file epa epg rfc6068 epg-config .gnus icomplete elec-pair which-key
init tramp-cache time-stamp tramp trampver tramp-integration
tramp-message tramp-compat shell pcomplete tramp-loaddefs project
transient format-spec ibuf-macs finder-inf rx modus-themes derived pcase
speedbar ezimage dframe minibuf-eldef mb-depth gnus nnheader gnus-util
mail-utils range mm-util mail-prsvr log-edit pcvs-util add-log vc
vc-dispatcher rcirc parse-time iso8601 time-date disp-table files-x time
xt-mouse winner saveplace savehist repeat recentf tree-widget autorevert
filenotify tty-tip grep compile text-property-search comint ansi-osc
ansi-color treesit pixel-scroll cua-base ring goto-addr thingatpt delsel
edmacro kmacro cl-extra help-mode use-package-bind-key bind-key
easy-mmode use-package-ensure use-package-core
exec-path-from-shell-autoloads package browse-url xdg url url-proxy
url-privacy url-expand url-methods url-history url-cookie
generate-lisp-file url-domsuf url-util mailcap url-handlers url-parse
auth-source cl-seq eieio eieio-core cl-macs password-cache json subr-x
map byte-opt gv bytecomp byte-compile url-vars early-init cus-edit pp
cus-start cus-load icons wid-edit cl-loaddefs cl-lib rmc iso-transl
tooltip cconv eldoc paren electric uniquify ediff-hook vc-hooks
lisp-float-type elisp-mode mwheel term/ns-win ns-win ucs-normalize
mule-util term/common-win tool-bar dnd fontset image regexp-opt fringe
tabulated-list replace newcomment text-mode lisp-mode prog-mode register
page tab-bar menu-bar rfn-eshadow isearch easymenu timer select
scroll-bar mouse jit-lock font-lock syntax font-core term/tty-colors
frame minibuffer nadvice seq simple cl-generic indonesian philippine
cham georgian utf-8-lang misc-lang vietnamese tibetan thai tai-viet lao
korean japanese eucjp-ms cp51932 hebrew greek romanian slovak czech
european ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese composite emoji-zwj charscript
charprop case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help abbrev obarray oclosure
cl-preloaded button loaddefs theme-loaddefs faces cus-face macroexp
files window text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env
code-pages mule custom widget keymap hashtable-print-readable backquote
threads kqueue cocoa ns lcms2 multi-tty make-network-process
tty-child-frames emacs)

Memory information:
((conses 16 458950 1357033) (symbols 48 52382 16)
 (strings 32 132319 45311) (string-bytes 1 3330616) (vectors 16 64491)
 (vector-slots 8 1033729 950522) (floats 8 453 10229)
 (intervals 56 6020 6692) (buffers 1064 15))

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From: help-debbugs@HIDDEN (GNU bug Tracking System)
To: Rahul Martim Juliato <rahuljuliato@HIDDEN>
Subject: bug#79866: Acknowledgement (31.0.50; Gnus hangs on 'Reading
 active file' when launched in GUI mode)
Message-ID: <handler.79866.B.176360799518746.ack <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
References: <m2jyzl9zdm.fsf@HIDDEN>
X-Gnu-PR-Message: ack 79866
X-Gnu-PR-Package: emacs,gnus
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Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2025 03:07:02 +0000

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--=20
79866: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D79866
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Message sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN, bugs@HIDDEN:

Subject: bug#79866: 31.0.50; Gnus hangs on 'Reading active file' when launched in GUI mode
Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>
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To: Rahul Martim Juliato <rahuljuliato@HIDDEN>
Cc: 79866 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2025 08:36:23 +0200
Message-Id: <86ikf5i520.fsf@HIDDEN>
From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <m2jyzl9zdm.fsf@HIDDEN> (message from Rahul Martim Juliato on
 Thu, 20 Nov 2025 00:06:13 -0300)
References: <m2jyzl9zdm.fsf@HIDDEN>
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> From: Rahul Martim Juliato <rahuljuliato@HIDDEN>
> Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2025 00:06:13 -0300
> 
> 
> Environment:
> 
> * GNU Emacs: 31.0.50
>   Development version 20fd47e74134 on master branch; build date 2025-11-20.
> 
> * OS: macOS
> 
> * Launch methods tested: Terminal (GUI and non-GUI)
> 
> * Gnus: default setup (no configuration)
> 
> ---
> 
> Steps to Reproduce – Working Case (Terminal, no GUI):
> 
> 1. Start Emacs in terminal without loading your init file:
> 
>    ```
>    emacs -Q -nw --eval="(gnus)"
>    ```
> 
> 2. Gnus will complain about missing configuration. Choose **continue (y)**.
> 
> 3. If prompted about an auto-save file, answer **no (n)**.
> 
> 4. You are now in the `*Group*` buffer.
> 
> 5. Press `B` to switch backend, complete with `nntp` → **RET**.
> 
> 6. Fill in the server address: `news.gwene.org` → **RET**.
> 
> 7. Gnus echoes that it is opening and reading incrementally. You
> should now see a new buffer: `Gnus: *Gnus Browse Server*`.
> 
> 
> Expected Result:
> 
> Gnus connects and displays the `*Gnus Browse Server*` buffer correctly.
> 
> ---
> 
> Steps to Reproduce – Failing Case (GUI mode):
> 
> 1. Start Emacs in GUI mode without loading your init file:
> 
>    ```
>    emacs -Q --eval="(gnus)"
>    ```
> 2. Repeat steps 2–5 from the working case.
> 
> 3. At step 5, after hitting **RET**, Gnus hangs on:
> 
>    ```
>    Reading active file
>    ```
> 
> Observed Result:
> 
> * Gnus does not proceed past `Reading active file`.

I cannot reproduce this, but I'm not on macOS.  Here, the GUI session
that follows the above steps does not hang, but successfully finishes
the reading step.

Could someone who builds Emacs on macOS try reproducing this?  When
Emacs hangs, it is a good idea to attach a debugger to it and show the
backtrace, so that we at least could know what is Emacs doing.

Thanks.

Message sent to bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN, bugs@HIDDEN:

Subject: bug#79866: 31.0.50; Gnus hangs on 'Reading active file' when launched in GUI mode
Resent-From: Robert Pluim <rpluim@HIDDEN>
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To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>
Cc: Rahul Martim Juliato <rahuljuliato@HIDDEN>, 79866 <at> debbugs.gnu.org
From: Robert Pluim <rpluim@HIDDEN>
In-Reply-To: <86ikf5i520.fsf@HIDDEN>
References: <m2jyzl9zdm.fsf@HIDDEN> <86ikf5i520.fsf@HIDDEN>
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2025 16:23:40 +0100
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>>>>> On Thu, 20 Nov 2025 08:36:23 +0200, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> said:

    Eli> I cannot reproduce this, but I'm not on macOS.  Here, the GUI sess=
ion
    Eli> that follows the above steps does not hang, but successfully finis=
hes
    Eli> the reading step.

    Eli> Could someone who builds Emacs on macOS try reproducing this?  When
    Eli> Emacs hangs, it is a good idea to attach a debugger to it and show=
 the
    Eli> backtrace, so that we at least could know what is Emacs doing.

I can=CA=BCt reproduce this on macOS. There was a change in macOS a few
versions ago so that executables had to be 'blessed' to be allowed to
access the local network, but as far as I know that didn=CA=BCt affect
off-subnet connections.

It=CA=BCs possible Apple have done something similar in macOS 26 for
non-local access (I=CA=BCm still on 15.7)

Does stuff like 'M-x eww RET www.fsf.org RET' work ok?

Robert
--=20

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Robert Pluim <rpluim@HIDDEN> writes:

>>>>>> On Thu, 20 Nov 2025 08:36:23 +0200, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> sai=
d:
>
>     Eli> I cannot reproduce this, but I'm not on macOS.  Here, the GUI se=
ssion
>     Eli> that follows the above steps does not hang, but successfully fin=
ishes
>     Eli> the reading step.
>
>     Eli> Could someone who builds Emacs on macOS try reproducing this?  W=
hen
>     Eli> Emacs hangs, it is a good idea to attach a debugger to it and sh=
ow the
>     Eli> backtrace, so that we at least could know what is Emacs doing.
>
> I can=CA=BCt reproduce this on macOS. There was a change in macOS a few
> versions ago so that executables had to be 'blessed' to be allowed to
> access the local network, but as far as I know that didn=CA=BCt affect
> off-subnet connections.
>
> It=CA=BCs possible Apple have done something similar in macOS 26 for
> non-local access (I=CA=BCm still on 15.7)
>
> Does stuff like 'M-x eww RET www.fsf.org RET' work ok?
>
> Robert

Thanks for having the time to help me troubleshoot this.

Looks like this is something specific for MacOS. I tested it on my
Debian machine it is working. I'm on macos Tahoe 26.1 (25B78).

Indeed there's trouble first time doing anything within Emacs. You get
asked from macos to give permissions first time like you open a folder
with dired. That said, I gave everything permission, like for files,
folders, network, added it to "Development tools", maybe I missed
something.

In addition (within this troubleshooting) I also issued:

    sudo /usr/libexec/ApplicationFirewall/socketfilterfw --add ~/site-compi=
led/emacs/src/emacs
    sudo /usr/libexec/ApplicationFirewall/socketfilterfw --unblockapp ~/sit=
e-compiled/emacs/src/emacs

    xattr -d com.apple.quarantine ~/site-compiled/emacs/src/emacs

Maybe I'm missing some other magic blessing command?

>
> Does stuff like 'M-x eww RET www.fsf.org RET' work ok?
>

Yes it does, I do ocasionally get asked to accept certificates
information though.

From this machine and Emacs config I manage my mails with both nnmaildir
and nnimap. Check news with newsticker, use ERC and do a fair amount of
browsing with eww.

For now I'm still investigating what the OS might be
sandboxing/blocking/changing when the app is Graphical.

--=20

Rahul Martim Juliato

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>>>>> On Thu, 20 Nov 2025 13:35:52 -0300, Rahul Martim Juliato <rahuljuliat=
o@HIDDEN> said:

    Rahul> Robert Pluim <rpluim@HIDDEN> writes:
    >>>>>>> On Thu, 20 Nov 2025 08:36:23 +0200, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN=
> said:
    >>=20
    Eli> I cannot reproduce this, but I'm not on macOS.  Here, the GUI sess=
ion
    Eli> that follows the above steps does not hang, but successfully finis=
hes
    Eli> the reading step.
    >>=20
    Eli> Could someone who builds Emacs on macOS try reproducing this?  When
    Eli> Emacs hangs, it is a good idea to attach a debugger to it and show=
 the
    Eli> backtrace, so that we at least could know what is Emacs doing.
    >>=20
    >> I can=CA=BCt reproduce this on macOS. There was a change in macOS a =
few
    >> versions ago so that executables had to be 'blessed' to be allowed to
    >> access the local network, but as far as I know that didn=CA=BCt affe=
ct
    >> off-subnet connections.
    >>=20
    >> It=CA=BCs possible Apple have done something similar in macOS 26 for
    >> non-local access (I=CA=BCm still on 15.7)
    >>=20
    >> Does stuff like 'M-x eww RET www.fsf.org RET' work ok?
    >>=20
    >> Robert

    Rahul> Thanks for having the time to help me troubleshoot this.

    Rahul> Looks like this is something specific for MacOS. I tested it on =
my
    Rahul> Debian machine it is working. I'm on macos Tahoe 26.1 (25B78).

    Rahul> Indeed there's trouble first time doing anything within Emacs. Y=
ou get
    Rahul> asked from macos to give permissions first time like you open a =
folder
    Rahul> with dired. That said, I gave everything permission, like for fi=
les,
    Rahul> folders, network, added it to "Development tools", maybe I missed
    Rahul> something.

    Rahul> In addition (within this troubleshooting) I also issued:

    Rahul>     sudo /usr/libexec/ApplicationFirewall/socketfilterfw --add ~=
/site-compiled/emacs/src/emacs
    Rahul>     sudo /usr/libexec/ApplicationFirewall/socketfilterfw --unblo=
ckapp ~/site-compiled/emacs/src/emacs

    Rahul>     xattr -d com.apple.quarantine ~/site-compiled/emacs/src/emacs

    Rahul> Maybe I'm missing some other magic blessing command?

It looks like you=CA=BCre running in place? Or did you install emacs
somewhere? The reason I ask is that when installed Emacs is installed
as an Emacs.app bundle, which is a different path. Basically the
contents of nextstep/Emacs.app are copied somehere, maybe the "Emacs"
executable there needs blessing as well.

    >>=20
    >> Does stuff like 'M-x eww RET www.fsf.org RET' work ok?
    >>=20

When launched as GUI Emacs?


Robert
--=20

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From: Rahul Martim Juliato <rahuljuliato@HIDDEN>
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Robert Pluim <rpluim@HIDDEN> writes:

>>>>>> On Thu, 20 Nov 2025 13:35:52 -0300, Rahul Martim Juliato <rahuljulia=
to@HIDDEN> said:
>
>     Rahul> Robert Pluim <rpluim@HIDDEN> writes:
>     >>>>>>> On Thu, 20 Nov 2025 08:36:23 +0200, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN=
rg> said:
>     >>=20
>     Eli> I cannot reproduce this, but I'm not on macOS.  Here, the GUI se=
ssion
>     Eli> that follows the above steps does not hang, but successfully fin=
ishes
>     Eli> the reading step.
>     >>=20
>     Eli> Could someone who builds Emacs on macOS try reproducing this?  W=
hen
>     Eli> Emacs hangs, it is a good idea to attach a debugger to it and sh=
ow the
>     Eli> backtrace, so that we at least could know what is Emacs doing.
>     >>=20
>     >> I can=CA=BCt reproduce this on macOS. There was a change in macOS =
a few
>     >> versions ago so that executables had to be 'blessed' to be allowed=
 to
>     >> access the local network, but as far as I know that didn=CA=BCt af=
fect
>     >> off-subnet connections.
>     >>=20
>     >> It=CA=BCs possible Apple have done something similar in macOS 26 f=
or
>     >> non-local access (I=CA=BCm still on 15.7)
>     >>=20
>     >> Does stuff like 'M-x eww RET www.fsf.org RET' work ok?
>     >>=20
>     >> Robert
>
>     Rahul> Thanks for having the time to help me troubleshoot this.
>
>     Rahul> Looks like this is something specific for MacOS. I tested it o=
n my
>     Rahul> Debian machine it is working. I'm on macos Tahoe 26.1 (25B78).
>
>     Rahul> Indeed there's trouble first time doing anything within Emacs.=
 You get
>     Rahul> asked from macos to give permissions first time like you open =
a folder
>     Rahul> with dired. That said, I gave everything permission, like for =
files,
>     Rahul> folders, network, added it to "Development tools", maybe I mis=
sed
>     Rahul> something.
>
>     Rahul> In addition (within this troubleshooting) I also issued:
>
>     Rahul>     sudo /usr/libexec/ApplicationFirewall/socketfilterfw --add=
 ~/site-compiled/emacs/src/emacs
>     Rahul>     sudo /usr/libexec/ApplicationFirewall/socketfilterfw --unb=
lockapp ~/site-compiled/emacs/src/emacs
>
>     Rahul>     xattr -d com.apple.quarantine ~/site-compiled/emacs/src/em=
acs
>
>     Rahul> Maybe I'm missing some other magic blessing command?
>
> It looks like you=CA=BCre running in place? Or did you install emacs
> somewhere? The reason I ask is that when installed Emacs is installed
> as an Emacs.app bundle, which is a different path. Basically the
> contents of nextstep/Emacs.app are copied somehere, maybe the "Emacs"
> executable there needs blessing as well.

I usually compile Emacs (meaning a successfull make -j) and alias
~/site-compiled/emacs/src/emacs to emacs on bash. I also use macos
automator to create an entry which will lode my main config or another
one I might be trying by running the same emacs binary with addition of
--init-dir=3D"..config path". This way I may have spotlight (the launcher)
entries for "EmacsSolo" or "EmacsKicks" or other config.

The original problem I was having was first noted on one of those
automation scripts (Emacs Solo), then I regressed to terminal, and
finally isolated to the simple case it happens (the actual bug report).

I can confirm that moving the built+signed ns/Emacs.app to /Applications
gives me the same behavior as the command line call.

What I tried so far with the /Applications/Emacs.app:

1.) Get its id
   osascript -e 'id of app "/Applications/Emacs.app"'
=20=20=20
Returns: org.gnu.Emacs

2.) Reset all permissions

tccutil reset All org.gnu.Emacs

3.) Open Emacs with open -n /Applications/Emacs.app

(It should've asked for permissions again it did not).

4.) M-x eww RET www.fsf.org RET

Everything works. Accept certificate.

5.) Made sure firewall is not blocking

sudo /usr/libexec/ApplicationFirewall/socketfilterfw --add /Applications/Em=
acs.app
sudo /usr/libexec/ApplicationFirewall/socketfilterfw --unblockapp
/Applications/Emacs.app

6.) Just in case "removed" the quarentine flag (it wasnt even set)

xattr -d com.apple.quarantine /Applications/Emacs.app

7.) Finally I tried signing my Emacs.app with

codesign --force --deep --sign - /Applications/Emacs.app

8.) After reading this article, I tried to add a new entry to the
Info.plist

Reference:
https://forum.xojo.com/t/sequoia-new-security-entitlement-s/81329


open -a TextEdit /Applications/Emacs.app/Contents/Info.plist

Added to the end:

<key>NSLocalNetworkUsageDescription</key>
<string>This app needs local network access for NNTP, Gnus, and other conne=
ctions.</string>

And signed it again with:

codesign --force --deep --sign - /Applications/Emacs.app


Between each step I tried it again and none of the above steps solved
the problem. Though I did find something interesting.


Emacs is not actually hanging, the connection is working, it is just
VERY SLOW.

With `sudo nettop -m tcp` I tried to reproduce the problem via Emacs TUI
and GUI.

Via TUI I could see "bytes_in" reaching ~2800KiB very fast (~2 or 3
secs).

Via GUI I could see "bytes_in" reaching ~2800KiB very slowly (7
minutes).

So the good news? Gnus is actually working and fetches what it is
supposed to fetch. Bad news? It takes an insane amount of time on GUI.

Maybe MacOS sandbox is throttling the connection on GUI Emacs somehow?

>
>     >>=20
>     >> Does stuff like 'M-x eww RET www.fsf.org RET' work ok?
>     >>=20
>
> When launched as GUI Emacs?
>

Yep! I mostly use GUI Emacs and all the network functionality I
described works like a charm. Until I tried the nntp backend, which
seems to trigger some throttling on macos.

>
> Robert

--=20

Rahul Martim Juliato

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>>>>> On Mon, 24 Nov 2025 00:36:46 -0300, Rahul Martim Juliato <rahuljuliat=
o@HIDDEN> said:

    Rahul> Changing direction, I decided to investigate the nntp.el source =
code for
    Rahul> clues. I found that setting nntp-open-connection-function to use=
 a
    Rahul> plain, unencrypted stream resolves the issue entirely:

    Rahul>     (setq nntp-open-connection-function 'nntp-open-plain-stream)

    Rahul> With this setting, Gnus in the GUI is fast again. Reverting to t=
he
    Rahul> default value ('nntp-open-network-stream), which attempts a STAR=
TTLS
    Rahul> upgrade, causes the extreme slowness to return.

    Rahul> I also briefly tried 'nntp-open-tls-stream' but it produced a co=
nnection
    Rahul> error. This was likely due to a server misconfiguration or lack =
of
    Rahul> support for direct TLS, and I have not debugged it further.

    Rahul> It seems the root of the problem is related to the TLS negotiati=
on
    Rahul> process. For some reason, in the GUI environment on macOS, this =
leads to
    Rahul> a severe network throttle rather than a typical connection failu=
re.

    Rahul> For now, I have a viable workaround, but the underlying cause is=
 still a
    Rahul> mystery.

That sounds more like something doing TLS inspection (badly) than
anything else, but then I don=CA=BCt understand why it would affect only
nntp and not https connections.

Do you have any other tools that can attempt TLS connections to the
nntp(s) port, like gnutls-cli? That might give a clue.

Robert
--=20

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From: Rahul Martim Juliato <rahuljuliato@HIDDEN>
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Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2025 00:36:46 -0300
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Rahul Martim Juliato <rahuljuliato@HIDDEN> writes:

> Robert Pluim <rpluim@HIDDEN> writes:
>
>>>>>>> On Thu, 20 Nov 2025 13:35:52 -0300, Rahul Martim Juliato <rahuljuli=
ato@HIDDEN> said:
>>
>>     Rahul> Robert Pluim <rpluim@HIDDEN> writes:
>>     >>>>>>> On Thu, 20 Nov 2025 08:36:23 +0200, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.=
org> said:
>>     >>=20
>>     Eli> I cannot reproduce this, but I'm not on macOS.  Here, the GUI s=
ession
>>     Eli> that follows the above steps does not hang, but successfully fi=
nishes
>>     Eli> the reading step.
>>     >>=20
>>     Eli> Could someone who builds Emacs on macOS try reproducing this?  =
When
>>     Eli> Emacs hangs, it is a good idea to attach a debugger to it and s=
how the
>>     Eli> backtrace, so that we at least could know what is Emacs doing.
>>     >>=20
>>     >> I can=CA=BCt reproduce this on macOS. There was a change in macOS=
 a few
>>     >> versions ago so that executables had to be 'blessed' to be allowe=
d to
>>     >> access the local network, but as far as I know that didn=CA=BCt a=
ffect
>>     >> off-subnet connections.
>>     >>=20
>>     >> It=CA=BCs possible Apple have done something similar in macOS 26 =
for
>>     >> non-local access (I=CA=BCm still on 15.7)
>>     >>=20
>>     >> Does stuff like 'M-x eww RET www.fsf.org RET' work ok?
>>     >>=20
>>     >> Robert
>>
>>     Rahul> Thanks for having the time to help me troubleshoot this.
>>
>>     Rahul> Looks like this is something specific for MacOS. I tested it =
on my
>>     Rahul> Debian machine it is working. I'm on macos Tahoe 26.1 (25B78).
>>
>>     Rahul> Indeed there's trouble first time doing anything within Emacs=
. You get
>>     Rahul> asked from macos to give permissions first time like you open=
 a folder
>>     Rahul> with dired. That said, I gave everything permission, like for=
 files,
>>     Rahul> folders, network, added it to "Development tools", maybe I mi=
ssed
>>     Rahul> something.
>>
>>     Rahul> In addition (within this troubleshooting) I also issued:
>>
>>     Rahul>     sudo /usr/libexec/ApplicationFirewall/socketfilterfw --ad=
d ~/site-compiled/emacs/src/emacs
>>     Rahul>     sudo /usr/libexec/ApplicationFirewall/socketfilterfw --un=
blockapp ~/site-compiled/emacs/src/emacs
>>
>>     Rahul>     xattr -d com.apple.quarantine ~/site-compiled/emacs/src/e=
macs
>>
>>     Rahul> Maybe I'm missing some other magic blessing command?
>>
>> It looks like you=CA=BCre running in place? Or did you install emacs
>> somewhere? The reason I ask is that when installed Emacs is installed
>> as an Emacs.app bundle, which is a different path. Basically the
>> contents of nextstep/Emacs.app are copied somehere, maybe the "Emacs"
>> executable there needs blessing as well.
>
> I usually compile Emacs (meaning a successfull make -j) and alias
> ~/site-compiled/emacs/src/emacs to emacs on bash. I also use macos
> automator to create an entry which will lode my main config or another
> one I might be trying by running the same emacs binary with addition of
> --init-dir=3D"..config path". This way I may have spotlight (the launcher)
> entries for "EmacsSolo" or "EmacsKicks" or other config.
>
> The original problem I was having was first noted on one of those
> automation scripts (Emacs Solo), then I regressed to terminal, and
> finally isolated to the simple case it happens (the actual bug report).
>
> I can confirm that moving the built+signed ns/Emacs.app to /Applications
> gives me the same behavior as the command line call.
>
> What I tried so far with the /Applications/Emacs.app:
>
> 1.) Get its id
>    osascript -e 'id of app "/Applications/Emacs.app"'
>=20=20=20=20
> Returns: org.gnu.Emacs
>
> 2.) Reset all permissions
>
> tccutil reset All org.gnu.Emacs
>
> 3.) Open Emacs with open -n /Applications/Emacs.app
>
> (It should've asked for permissions again it did not).
>
> 4.) M-x eww RET www.fsf.org RET
>
> Everything works. Accept certificate.
>
> 5.) Made sure firewall is not blocking
>
> sudo /usr/libexec/ApplicationFirewall/socketfilterfw --add /Applications/=
Emacs.app
> sudo /usr/libexec/ApplicationFirewall/socketfilterfw --unblockapp
> /Applications/Emacs.app
>
> 6.) Just in case "removed" the quarentine flag (it wasnt even set)
>
> xattr -d com.apple.quarantine /Applications/Emacs.app
>
> 7.) Finally I tried signing my Emacs.app with
>
> codesign --force --deep --sign - /Applications/Emacs.app
>
> 8.) After reading this article, I tried to add a new entry to the
> Info.plist
>
> Reference:
> https://forum.xojo.com/t/sequoia-new-security-entitlement-s/81329
>
>
> open -a TextEdit /Applications/Emacs.app/Contents/Info.plist
>
> Added to the end:
>
> <key>NSLocalNetworkUsageDescription</key>
> <string>This app needs local network access for NNTP, Gnus, and other con=
nections.</string>
>
> And signed it again with:
>
> codesign --force --deep --sign - /Applications/Emacs.app
>
>
> Between each step I tried it again and none of the above steps solved
> the problem. Though I did find something interesting.
>
>
> Emacs is not actually hanging, the connection is working, it is just
> VERY SLOW.
>
> With `sudo nettop -m tcp` I tried to reproduce the problem via Emacs TUI
> and GUI.
>
> Via TUI I could see "bytes_in" reaching ~2800KiB very fast (~2 or 3
> secs).
>
> Via GUI I could see "bytes_in" reaching ~2800KiB very slowly (7
> minutes).
>
> So the good news? Gnus is actually working and fetches what it is
> supposed to fetch. Bad news? It takes an insane amount of time on GUI.
>
> Maybe MacOS sandbox is throttling the connection on GUI Emacs somehow?
>
>>
>>     >>=20
>>     >> Does stuff like 'M-x eww RET www.fsf.org RET' work ok?
>>     >>=20
>>
>> When launched as GUI Emacs?
>>
>
> Yep! I mostly use GUI Emacs and all the network functionality I
> described works like a charm. Until I tried the nntp backend, which
> seems to trigger some throttling on macos.
>
>>
>> Robert


Changing direction, I decided to investigate the nntp.el source code for
clues. I found that setting nntp-open-connection-function to use a
plain, unencrypted stream resolves the issue entirely:

    (setq nntp-open-connection-function 'nntp-open-plain-stream)

With this setting, Gnus in the GUI is fast again. Reverting to the
default value ('nntp-open-network-stream), which attempts a STARTTLS
upgrade, causes the extreme slowness to return.

I also briefly tried 'nntp-open-tls-stream' but it produced a connection
error. This was likely due to a server misconfiguration or lack of
support for direct TLS, and I have not debugged it further.

It seems the root of the problem is related to the TLS negotiation
process. For some reason, in the GUI environment on macOS, this leads to
a severe network throttle rather than a typical connection failure.
                                                                           =
                                                         =E2=96=84
For now, I have a viable workaround, but the underlying cause is still a
mystery.

--=20

Rahul Martim Juliato

Last modified: Tue, 25 Nov 2025 20:45:01 UTC

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