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Thu, 9 Jul 2026 06:59:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by melete.silentflame.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id D65DC7E746A; Thu, 09 Jul 2026 11:59:01 +0100 (BST) From: Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN>, Lin Jian <me@HIDDEN> Subject: Re: bug#81381: 30.2; Why is with-memoization documented in the cl-lib manual In-Reply-To: <86echclk5f.fsf@HIDDEN> References: <87h5m8of4g.fsf@HIDDEN> <86echclk5f.fsf@HIDDEN> Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2026 11:59:01 +0100 Message-ID: <87pl0wig3u.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: -0.7 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81381 Cc: 81381 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -1.7 (-) Eli Zaretskii [09/Jul 10:03am +03] wrote: >> Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2026 14:23:43 +0800 >> From: Lin Jian via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, >> the Swiss army knife of text editors" <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN> >> >> >> >> I find `with-memoization' when skimming through (info "(cl) Top") today. >> This macro is useful and I use it to simplify my hash table code a bit. >> >> Then, I find a few other things which makes the fact that this macro is >> documented in the cl-lib manual a bit confusing: >> >> - this macro does not follow (info "(cl) Naming Conventions") >> - unlike other cl-lib things, this macro is defined in subr.el >> >> I am not sure if this is bug, but it is a bit confusing. > > Thanks. > > From where I stand, this macro is basically not documented in any > manual. What's in cl.texi is so terse and minimal that it's not > helpful at all. It doesn't even explain what "memoization" means, and > no other manual does. > > Patches to document this properly in the ELisp manual are welcome. > Alternatively, we could decide that this macro doesn't warrant any > description in the manuals, and just remove the cl.texi text about it. > > Sean, WDYT? It's very simple. I don't think we need to document it, but at the same time it does not seem like a great harm to document it if someone wants to work on it. But removing it from cl.texi is definitely worth doing. -- Sean Whitton
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81381; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at 81381) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Jul 2026 07:03:37 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jul 09 03:03:37 2026 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49893 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1whinI-00089x-Rh for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 Jul 2026 03:03:37 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:56874) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1whinF-00089b-Qm for 81381 <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 Jul 2026 03:03:35 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <eliz@HIDDEN>) id 1whin9-0006kV-Vc; Thu, 09 Jul 2026 03:03:27 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=JbC9YKRFpD1pm32MBc1OixTUjuvGIhWRzLglXustB4o=; b=qB1gcIghJ9Y8 4G6Cd+EE9CFV71JrMDAPnAR3HDeNLfztoZiB6cbK5sYBg54EV2c9/DHcdWocA9Mhb4dDW5bUL9pBj wUJmowUULGvBSgXTd/MFsW4y+rO9t/y52EGsKXqsGrJGROr3VCflEoFLDamUmgStWlVB6kE0dBb6N jvRz4G6/oOK9eJsqaWb2m53+b/d6ZD7AzG79qk/f/3NbdcwRY08qP5CvzxPxpDM9VI0Zn19dFyPJE chtnhbFWrRjKZrhn2mOCga42JX5zs+VX4jgCRMLAC1ycEd0ixe/r+KR3qOqT6gvrGKY3Aa4m2EoXl i7M7WikwLVjKAcCoPC4ogQ==; Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2026 10:03:24 +0300 Message-Id: <86echclk5f.fsf@HIDDEN> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@HIDDEN> To: Lin Jian <me@HIDDEN>, Sean Whitton <spwhitton@HIDDEN> In-Reply-To: <87h5m8of4g.fsf@HIDDEN> (bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN) Subject: Re: bug#81381: 30.2; Why is with-memoization documented in the cl-lib manual References: <87h5m8of4g.fsf@HIDDEN> X-Spam-Score: -2.3 (--) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: 81381 Cc: 81381 <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -3.3 (---) > Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2026 14:23:43 +0800 > From: Lin Jian via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, > the Swiss army knife of text editors" <bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN> > > > > I find `with-memoization' when skimming through (info "(cl) Top") today. > This macro is useful and I use it to simplify my hash table code a bit. > > Then, I find a few other things which makes the fact that this macro is > documented in the cl-lib manual a bit confusing: > > - this macro does not follow (info "(cl) Naming Conventions") > - unlike other cl-lib things, this macro is defined in subr.el > > I am not sure if this is bug, but it is a bit confusing. Thanks. From where I stand, this macro is basically not documented in any manual. What's in cl.texi is so terse and minimal that it's not helpful at all. It doesn't even explain what "memoization" means, and no other manual does. Patches to document this properly in the ELisp manual are welcome. Alternatively, we could decide that this macro doesn't warrant any description in the manuals, and just remove the cl.texi text about it. Sean, WDYT?
bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN:bug#81381; Package emacs.
Full text available.Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Jul 2026 06:24:11 +0000 From debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Thu Jul 09 02:24:11 2026 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49709 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org>) id 1whiB8-00060q-OM for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 Jul 2026 02:24:11 -0400 Received: from lists1p.gnu.org ([2001:470:142::17]:37102) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from <me@HIDDEN>) id 1whiB4-00060E-3S for submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 09 Jul 2026 02:24:08 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists1p.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <me@HIDDEN>) id 1whiAy-0002lJ-FK for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Thu, 09 Jul 2026 02:24:00 -0400 Received: from mail.linj.tech ([5.255.109.209]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from <me@HIDDEN>) id 1whiAw-0000lf-VQ for bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN; Thu, 09 Jul 2026 02:24:00 -0400 From: Lin Jian <me@HIDDEN> DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=linj.tech; s=mail; t=1783578230; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type; bh=aZySuXShMYKT441ODYVY8W61/1HasEa+Rdu1s8X3IvY=; b=DCUbwuJhy11LWhNc6IjMZyfL6J/M7/5h2B4rij+xTKaeK0q0YGt16BaL8OHrKl7qTiJpV2 gFsvG3sQssUHuMgjZ97P/pAojmzDqC+s5CvPOjY/lur6n1OtLslX/EoZwL8pK/YKq6exWs v3uV630l5e3XbHiip8HORFbSXwYy1uWQ50DTxyQWafHgaZ72Z1MqSFZZp02Sdt22t0E7gi u54NhIchZYnQF+xQ7zxycXvj8Wx6XdAS2iYxN+9LdBD4zqyKtSWDsUne8Tp8dDCFGpeUyC ckNi1aZuIUOVEDCN1dUxFGmZtbuS8Wmnc1V4NAiKjOvZk4+f7zJycDFmp6vw+Q== To: bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN Subject: 30.2; Why is with-memoization documented in the cl-lib manual X-Debbugs-Cc: Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2026 14:23:43 +0800 Message-ID: <87h5m8of4g.fsf@HIDDEN> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=5.255.109.209; envelope-from=me@HIDDEN; helo=mail.linj.tech X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Spam-Score: 0.9 (/) X-Debbugs-Envelope-To: submit X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: <debbugs-submit.debbugs.gnu.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/debbugs-submit/> List-Post: <mailto:debbugs-submit <at> debbugs.gnu.org> List-Help: <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/debbugs-submit>, <mailto:debbugs-submit-request <at> debbugs.gnu.org?subject=subscribe> Errors-To: debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org Sender: "Debbugs-submit" <debbugs-submit-bounces <at> debbugs.gnu.org> X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) I find `with-memoization' when skimming through (info "(cl) Top") today. This macro is useful and I use it to simplify my hash table code a bit. Then, I find a few other things which makes the fact that this macro is documented in the cl-lib manual a bit confusing: - this macro does not follow (info "(cl) Naming Conventions") - unlike other cl-lib things, this macro is defined in subr.el I am not sure if this is bug, but it is a bit confusing.
Lin Jian <me@HIDDEN>:bug-gnu-emacs@HIDDEN.
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